Cynulliad Cenedlaethol CymruNational Assembly for Wales · Cyfarfod llawnPlenary sitting
Dydd Iau 31 Ionawr 2002
Thursday 31 January 2002
CynnwysContents
- 3Ethol i’r Pwyllgor DeddfauElection to the Legislation Committee 1 bleidlais1 vote
- 3Ethol i’r Pwyllgor Safonau YmddygiadElection to the Committee on Standards of Conduct 1 bleidlais1 vote
- 4Ethol i’r Pwyllgor ArchwilioElection to the Audit Committee 1 bleidlais1 vote
- 5Cwestiynau ar Lywodraeth Leol i’r Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a ChymunedauQuestions on Local Government to the Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities
- 5Cyfle Cyfartal mewn Llywodraeth LeolEqual Opportunities in Local Government
- 7Awdurdodau’r Heddlu yng NghymruPolice Authorities in Wales
- 9Gweithredu Rhoi Cymunedau’n GyntafImplementation of Communities First
- 11Mantais i Bowys yn sgîl y Setliad Llywodraeth LeolBenefit of Local Government Settlement to Powys
- 12Materion Diogelwch yn y GymunedCommunity Safety Issues
- 13Meithrin Gallu mewn Cymunedau DifreintiedigCapacity Building in Deprived Communities
- 14Cytundebau Polisi gydag Awdurdodau LleolPolicy Agreements with Local Authorities
- 16Cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog dros yr AmgylcheddQuestions to the Minister for Environment
- 28Datganiad ar ‘Gynllunio: Cyflawni dros Gymru’Statement on ‘Planning: Delivering for Wales’
- 43Datganiad ar CorusStatement on Corus
- 70Pwyntiau o DrefnPoints of Order
- 71Dadl o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 29: Is-ddeddfwriaeth o dan Ddeddf Gwasanaeth Iechyd Gwladol 1997Debate under Standing Order No. 29: Subordinate Legislation under the National Health Service Act 1997 2 o bleidleisiau2 votes
- 85Dadl FerShort Debate
PleidleisiauVotes
| PleidlaisVote | O blaidFor | YmatalAbstain | Yn erbynAgainst | CanlyniadResult |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Ethol i’r Pwyllgor DeddfauElection to the Legislation Committee | ||||
| Cynnig NDM942Motion NDM942 | 25 | 0 | 0 | DerbyniwydAdopted |
| Ethol i’r Pwyllgor Safonau YmddygiadElection to the Committee on Standards of Conduct | ||||
| Cynnig NDM941Motion NDM941 | 26 | 0 | 0 | DerbyniwydAdopted |
| Ethol i’r Pwyllgor ArchwilioElection to the Audit Committee | ||||
| Cynnig NDM940Motion NDM940 | 31 | 0 | 0 | DerbyniwydAdopted |
| Dadl o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 29: Is-ddeddfwriaeth o dan Ddeddf Gwasanaeth Iechyd Gwladol 1997Debate under Standing Order No. 29: Subordinate Legislation under the National Health Service Act 1997 | ||||
| Gwelliant 1Amendment 1 | 34 | 0 | 10 | DerbyniwydAdopted |
| Cynnig wedi’i ddiwygioAmended motion | 45 | 0 | 0 | DerbyniwydAdopted |
TrafodionProceedings
Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 9.05 a.m. gyda’r Llywydd yn y Gadair.
The Assembly met at 9.05 a.m. with the Presiding Officer in the Chair.
Ethol i’r Pwyllgor Deddfau
Election to the Legislation Committee
Edwina Hart The Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities spoken in English p. 3
Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Cynnig NDM942 Edwina Hart t. 3
Motion NDM942 Edwina Hart p. 3
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 25 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (25)
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Eleanor Burnham
- Christine Chapman
- Cynog Dafis
- David Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Michael German
- William Graham
- John Griffiths
- Brian Hancock
- Edwina Hart
- Pauline Jarman
- Elin Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- David Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
Ethol i’r Pwyllgor Safonau Ymddygiad
Election to the Committee on Standards of Conduct
Edwina Hart The Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities spoken in English p. 3
Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Cynnig NDM941 Edwina Hart t. 4
Motion NDM941 Edwina Hart p. 4
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 26 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (26)
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Eleanor Burnham
- Christine Chapman
- Cynog Dafis
- David Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Michael German
- William Graham
- John Griffiths
- Brian Hancock
- Edwina Hart
- Pauline Jarman
- Elin Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Peter Law
- David Lloyd
- Val Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
Ethol i’r Pwyllgor Archwilio
Election to the Audit Committee
Edwina Hart The Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities spoken in English p. 4
Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Cynnig NDM940 Edwina Hart t. 5
Motion NDM940 Edwina Hart p. 5
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 31 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (31)
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Eleanor Burnham
- Christine Chapman
- Cynog Dafis
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Sue Essex
- Michael German
- William Graham
- John Griffiths
- Brian Hancock
- Edwina Hart
- Pauline Jarman
- Elin Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- David Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
Cwestiynau ar Lywodraeth Leol i’r Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau
Questions on Local Government to the Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 5
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5
Question 1 (OAQ15376) has been transferred for written answer.
Trosglwyddwyd cwestiwn 1 (OAQ15376) i’w ateb yn ysgrifenedig.
Cyfle Cyfartal mewn Llywodraeth Leol
Equal Opportunities in Local Government
Will the Minister make a statement on the efforts to ensure a common approach to equal opportunities in local government in Wales? (OAQ15371)
A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad ar yr ymdrechion i sicrhau agwedd gyffredin tuag at gyfle cyfartal mewn llywodraeth leol yng Nghymru? (OAQ15371)
Edwina Hart The Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities spoken in English p. 5
Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5
The Welsh Local Government Association has worked with the statutory equality bodies, Syniad, the Welsh Language Board, and the Assembly, to develop a generic equality standard for local government. We are giving the association a grant to establish an equalities unit to support the implementation of this standard in all 22 unitary authorities.
Mae Cymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru wedi cydweithio â’r cyrff cydraddoldeb statudol, Syniad, Bwrdd yr Iaith Gymraeg, a’r Cynulliad, i ddatblygu safon cydraddoldeb gyffredinol ar gyfer llywodraeth leol. Yr ydym yn rhoi grant i’r gymdeithas sefydlu uned cydraddoldeb i gynorthwyo’r gwaith o weithredu’r safon hon ym mhob un o’r 22 awdurdod unedol.
Will you give more details on how the new local government equal opportunities unit is working with the existing Assembly units to establish a common approach across the public sector in Wales?
A roddwch fwy o fanylion ar sut y mae uned cyfle cyfartal newydd llywodraeth leol yn gweithio gydag unedau presennol y Cynulliad i sefydlu ymagwedd gyffredin ar draws y sector cyhoeddus yng Nghymru?
I am delighted to tell you that one of our officials in the Equality Policy Unit, Naomi Alleyne, is heading the new local government equal opportunities unit. I am sad to lose her. However, we can look forward to the units working closely. Importantly, the Assembly’s work of developing good practice with equality agencies will continue, as the Equality Policy Unit’s involvement in local government will mean that local government will also work with those agencies. We are keen to see that all the good work on equality in the Assembly is mirrored in local government.
Mae’n bleser gennyf ddweud wrthych bod un o’n swyddogion yn yr Uned Polisi Cydraddoldeb, Naomi Alleyne, yn bennaeth ar uned cyfle cyfartal newydd llywodraeth leol. Mae’n drueni ein bod yn ei cholli. Serch hynny, gallwn edrych ymlaen at weld yr unedau’n cydweithio’n agos. Yn bwysig, bydd gwaith y Cynulliad o ddatblygu arfer da gydag asiantaethau cydraddoldeb yn parhau, yn yr un modd ag y bydd cyfranogiad yr Uned Polici Cydraddoldeb mewn llywodraeth leol yn golygu y bydd llywodraeth leol hefyd yn cydweithio â’r asiantaethau hyn. Yr ydym yn awyddus i weld yr holl waith da ar gydraddoldeb yn y Cynulliad yn cael ei adlewyrchu gan lywodraeth leol.
The Assembly is responsible for protecting human rights in relation to local government as well as ensuring equality of opportunity. Are you satisfied that adequate structures now exist to ensure that local authorities are fully aware of their obligations?
Mae’r Cynulliad yn gyfrifol am ddiogelu hawliau dynol o ran llywodraeth leol yn ogystal â sicrhau cyfle cyfartal. A ydych yn fodlon fod strwythurau digonol yn bodoli bellach i sicrhau bod awdurdodau lleol yn gwbl ymwybodol o’u rhwymedigaethau?
I will consider this matter in light of your question. Carwyn Jones has ministerial responsibility for human rights. I will liaise with him to provide an appropriate answer.
Byddaf yn ystyried y mater hwn yng ngoleuni eich cwestiwn. Mae gan Carwyn Jones gyfrifoldeb gweinidogol dros hawliau dynol. Byddaf yn cysylltu ag ef cyn rhoi ateb priodol i chi.
Do you agree that the equal pay campaign undertaken by the Assembly should be adopted by local authorities and that they should become key partners in its delivery?
A gytunwch y dylai awdurdodau lleol fabwysiadu’r ymgyrch tâl cyfartal yr ymgymerwyd â hi gan y Cynulliad ac y dylent ddod yn bartneriaid allweddol yn y gwaith o’i chyflwyno?
I wish to put on record my appreciation for your work as chair of the working group on equal pay, together with the representatives of the other political parties. You are right, David, that this must be a campaign across the public sector in Wales. The Assembly is leading by example. I hope, and know, that Assembly sponsored public bodies will continue this work. Jane Hutt is leading the initiative in health, and local government is signed up to this agenda.
Hoffwn ddiolch ichi am eich gwaith fel cadeirydd y gweithgor ar dâl cyfartal, ynghyd â chynrychiolwyr y pleidiau gwleidyddol eraill. Yr ydych yn gywir, David, bod rhaid i hyn fod yn ymgyrch ar draws y sector cyhoeddus yng Nghymru. Mae’r Cynulliad yn arwain drwy esiampl. Gobeithiaf, a gwn, y bydd cyrff cyhoeddus a noddir gan y Cynulliad yn parhau â’r gwaith hwn. Mae Jane Hutt yn arwain y fenter ym maes iechyd, ac mae llywodraeth leol yn ymrwymedig i’r agenda hon.
Do you agree that we must try to ensure that councillors are more representative of the communities that they serve in terms of age profile, gender, ethnicity and disability?
A gytunwch fod rhaid inni sicrhau bod cynghorwyr yn cynrychioli’n well y cymunedau y maent yn eu gwasanaethu, o ran proffil oedran, rhyw, ethnigrwydd ac anabledd?
I agree. All the political parties in the Chamber have a role in ensuring that their selection procedures for candidates take that into account. Also, I hope that the modernising local government agenda, linked with the remuneration package, will allow younger people from more diverse backgrounds to come forward so that we can ensure that we have a better representative group across local government.
Cytunaf. Mae gan yr holl bleidiau gwleidyddol yn y Siambr rôl wrth sicrhau bod eu gweithdrefnau ar gyfer dethol ymgeiswyr yn adlewyrchu hynny. Hefyd, gobeithiaf y bydd agenda moderneiddio llywodraeth leol, ynghyd â’r pecyn tâl, yn galluogi pobl ifanc o gefndiroedd mwy amrywiol i gynnig eu hunain fel y gallwn sicrhau bod gennym grŵp mwy cynrychioliadol ar draws llywodraeth leol.
Awdurdodau’r Heddlu yng Nghymru
Police Authorities in Wales
What discussions has the Minister had with police authorities in Wales on their allocation in the forthcoming UK budget? (OAQ15320)
Pa drafodaethau y mae’r Gweinidog wedi’u cael gydag awdurdodau’r heddlu yng Nghymru ynghylch eu dyraniad yng nghyllideb nesaf y DU? (OAQ15320)
I regularly meet representatives of the Welsh police authorities to discuss a range of matters, including the Assembly’s contribution to police funding. The allocation for police funding in the UK budget is a matter for the UK Government.
Yr wyf yn cwrdd yn rheolaidd â chynrychiolwyr awdurdodau heddlu Cymru i drafod amrywiaeth o faterion, gan gynnwys cyfraniad y Cynulliad at gyllid yr heddlu. Mae dyraniad yr heddlu yng nghyllideb y DU yn fater i Lywodraeth y DU.
You will be aware that North Wales Police only received a small rise in its grant last year compared with other forces. This year the force needs a 5.9 per cent increase just to stand still. However, between the Home Office and the Assembly, it has been given a 3.5 per cent increase. North Wales Police will clearly not be able to replace officers, let alone recruit extra officers, if this situation remains unchanged. Will you examine its situation and see what extra leeway you can create for it to raise cash to ensure that we have sufficient police officers in north Wales?
Fe wyddoch mai dim ond cynnydd bach a gafwyd yng ngrant Heddlu Gogledd Cymru y llynedd o’i gymharu â’r heddluoedd eraill. Eleni, mae angen cynnydd o 5.9 y cant ar yr heddlu dim ond i aros yn yr unfan. Fodd bynnag, rhwng y Swyddfa Gartref a’r Cynulliad, cafwyd cynnydd o 3.5 y cant. Mae’n amlwg na fydd Heddlu Gogledd Cymru’n gallu recriwtio swyddogion newydd, heb sôn am recriwtio swyddogion ychwanegol, os na fydd y sefyllfa hon yn newid. A wnewch chi ystyried sefyllfa Heddlu Gogledd Cymru a gweld faint o amser ychwanegol y gellid ei roi iddo i godi arian i sicrhau bod gennym ddigon o blismyn yng ngogledd Cymru?
The average increase for the police in Wales is 4.4 per cent. The average in England is 2.8 per cent. Assembly support is up 4 per cent, whereas the Home Office has centralised many funds, for which police authorities must now bid. There are some issues there. Malcolm King gave us an interesting presentation at the Partnership Council on behalf of the police authorities, who also brought some issues concerning the formula to our attention. Following questions in the Local Government and Housing Committee yesterday, and representations that I have received from elsewhere, I will be discussing the issues concerning the formula and police funding with the police authorities and the chief constables when I meet them next week.
Cyfartaledd y cynnydd ar gyfer yr heddlu yng Nghymru yw 4.4 y cant. Cyfartaledd y cynnydd yn Lloegr yw 2.8 y cant. Cafwyd cynnydd o 4 y cant yng nghymorth y Cynulliad, tra bod y Swyddfa Gartref wedi canoli llawer o arian, y mae’n rhaid i awdurdodau’r heddlu wneud cais ar ei gyfer bellach. Mae rhai problemau’n codi yma. Cafwyd cyflwyniad diddorol gan Malcolm King yn y Cyngor Partneriaeth ar ran awdurdodau’r heddlu, a dynnodd ein sylw hefyd at rai materion yn ymwneud â’r fformiwla. O ganlyniad i gwestiynau yn y Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai ddoe, a sylwadau a gefais gan eraill, byddaf yn trafod y materion yn ymwneud â’r fformiwla ac arian yr heddlu gydag awdurdodau’r heddlu a’r prif gwnstabliaid pan fyddaf yn cwrdd â hwy yr wythnos nesaf.
Will you encourage your Labour colleagues in the Commons to sign Lembit Öpik’s motion calling for police functions to be devolved to the Assembly?
A wnewch chi annog eich cyd-aelodau Llafur yn Nhŷ’r Cyffredin i lofnodi cynnig Lembit Öpik yn galw am ddatganoli swyddogaethau’r heddlu i’r Cynulliad?
I only deal with matters that are within my ministerial responsibility. I am not arrogant enough to suggest to Members of Parliament what they should do.
Dim ond materion sydd o fewn fy nghyfrifoldeb gweinidogol y byddaf yn ymdrin â hwy. Nid wyf yn ddigon haerllug i awgrymu beth y dylai Aelodau Seneddol ei wneud.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 8
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8
I was about to advise that you had no ministerial responsibility for the Liberal Democrats in Westminster, Minister.
Yr oeddwn ar fin dweud wrthych nad oes gennych unrhyw gyfrifoldeb gweinidogol dros y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn San Steffan, Weinidog.
Nick Bourne The Leader of the Welsh Conservatives spoken in English p. 8
Nick Bourne Arweinydd Ceidwadwyr Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8
That must be a great relief to you, Minister. What stance has the Government of Wales taken in relation to proceeds from evidence obtained by speed cameras? Does it support moves to ensure that the camera-obtained proceeds go to the local police force to finance policing rather than to the Exchequer?
Mae’n siŵr bod hynny’n rhyddhad mawr ichi, Weinidog. Beth yw safbwynt Llywodraeth Cymru o ran yr enillion a geir o ganlyniad i dystiolaeth camerâu cyflymder? A yw’n cefnogi’r ymgais i sicrhau bod yr enillion hynny yn mynd i’r heddlu lleol i ariannu plismona yn hytrach na mynd i’r Canghellor?
We have not been asked to take a formal position on this issue. It is a matter on which I will surely receive further lobbying from the police forces. I am minded that the public thinks that that would be a good idea.
Ni ofynnwyd inni fynegi ein safbwynt yn ffurfiol ar y mater hwn. Mae’n fater y bydd yr heddlu yn pwyso arnaf ymhellach ynglŷn ag ef mae’n siŵr. Credaf fod y cyhoedd o’r farn y byddai hynny’n syniad da.
Gweithredu Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf
Implementation of Communities First
What progress is being made on the implementation of Communities First? (OAQ15324)
Pa gynnydd a wneir ar y gwaith o weithredu Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf? (OAQ15324)
The guidance for the Communities First programme was issued at the end of September 2001. Eligible communities are now free to submit their community action plans for Assembly consideration. I have already approved expenditure of almost £3.6 million to support those national and local organisations that have been involved in the programme’s delivery. I have also targeted a further 32 sub-wards over and above the 100 eligible wards, and also 10 communities of interest proposals. I update the Local Government and Housing Committee regularly.
Dosbarthwyd y canllawiau ar gyfer y rhaglen Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf ddiwedd mis medi 2001. Gall cymunedau sydd bellach yn gymwys gyflwyno eu cynlluniau gweithredu cymunedol i’w hystyried gan y Cynulliad. Yr wyf eisoes wedi cymeradwyo gwariant o bron i £3.6 miliwn i gynorthwyo’r sefydliadau cenedlaethol a lleol hynny sydd wedi cymryd rhan yn y gwaith o ddarparu’r rhaglen. Yr wyf hefyd wedi targedu 32 is-ward arall yn ogystal â’r 100 ward gymwys, ynghyd â 10 o gynigion cymunedau â diddordeb. Yr wyf yn rhoi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i’r Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai yn rheolaidd.
I declare an interest as a member of Swansea City and County Council; as such, I know that schemes from that initiative are bringing a range of benefits to some of our most disadvantaged communities. However, in the light of the National Audit Office’s announcement yesterday, what measures are in place, or will be put in place, to ensure the probity of all schemes within the Communities First programme?
Datganaf fuddiant fel aelod o Gyngor Dinas a Sir Abertawe; o ganlyniad, gwn fod rhai o gynlluniau’r fenter honno’n dod ag ystod o fanteision i rai o’n cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig. Fodd bynnag, o ystyried datganiad y Swyddfa Archwilio Genedlaethol ddoe, pa fesurau sydd mewn grym, neu a fydd mewn grym, i sicrhau cywirdeb cynlluniau’r rhaglen Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf?
The necessary arrangements are in place to ensure the proper expenditure of money. However, I do not want to be overly restrictive in advising people how to spend money. There must be an element of trust in these schemes, Sometimes, these schemes will not add up in terms of what they deliver, but they will have been worthwhile doing and had the right sentiments behind them. In terms of ensuring that the financial audit trail is correct, everything possible has been done.
Mae’r trefniadau angenrheidiol ar waith i sicrhau y caiff arian ei wario’n gywir. Fodd bynnag, nid wyf am gyfyngu gormod wrth gynghori pobl sut i wario arian. Rhaid cael elfen o ymddiriedaeth yn y cynlluniau hyn. Weithiau, ni fydd y cynlluniau hyn yn taro deuddeg o ran yr hyn y maent yn ei ddarparu, ond byddant wedi bod yn werth eu gwneud ac yr oedd y cymhelliad cywir yn sail iddynt. O ran sicrhau bod y systemau archwilio ariannol yn gywir, gwnaed popeth posibl.
Pa gamau a gymerwyd i sicrhau bod Cymunedau’n Gyntaf yn cael ei ymestyn i ardaloedd gwledig? Mae pocedi o dlodi yn yr ardaloedd hynny a gallai’r cynllun hwn fynd i’r afael â rhai o’r problemau a wynebant.
What steps have been taken to ensure that Communities First is being extended to rural areas? There are pockets of poverty in those areas and that programme could tackle some of the problems they face.
I wrote to local authorities, which are best placed to identify the type of areas you mentioned, be they sub-wards or even communities of interest. We had some innovative bids. As I review the programme I will continue to ensure that we have maximum participation from rural communities and that local authorities continue to identify those wards and sub-ward areas so that they can be included in the future.
Ysgrifennais at awdurdodau lleol, sydd yn y sefyllfa orau i nodi’r math o ardaloedd y soniasoch amdanynt, pa un ai is-wardiau neu hyd yn oed gymunedau diddordeb ydynt. Daeth rhai cynigion dyfeisgar i law. Wrth imi adolygu’r rhaglen byddaf yn parhau i sicrhau bod y nifer uchaf bosibl o gymunedau gwledig yn cymryd rhan a bod awdurdodau lleol yn parhau i nodi ardaloedd y wardiau a’r is-wardiau hynny fel y gellid eu cynnwys yn y dyfodol.
Minister, the involvement of local people working toward local solutions to neighbourhood problems is at the heart of the Communities First programme. What provision is there for active members of the community who, through no fault of their own, were not involved in the initial meetings and find themselves deprived of the opportunities to input their valuable local knowledge?
Weinidog, cynnwys pobl leol wrth weithio tuag at atebion lleol i broblemau lleol sydd wrth wraidd Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf. Pa ddarpariaeth sydd ar gyfer aelodau amlwg o’r gymuned, na fu iddynt, heb fai arnynt hwy, gymryd rhan yn y cyfarfodydd cychwynnol ac nad oes ganddynt gyfle bellach i gyfrannu eu gwybodaeth leol werthfawr?
Your question follows on from a point that you raised in the Local Government and Housing Committee yesterday. Local communities have raised a number of issues with me because they felt that they were not involved at the first stage and felt that they had missed the boat. I have asked officials to look at these specific examples. If you have further examples, I would be delighted to take them on board. I want to ensure that all community partners are involved, and we must make certain that the consultation process needed to develop the plan is a proper one. If you, or any other Assembly Members, have examples that you feel we should consider or where we should intervene, I would be delighted to take them on board.
Mae eich cwestiwn yn dilyn o bwynt a godwyd gennych yn y Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai ddoe. Mae cymunedau lleol wedi codi nifer o faterion gyda mi oherwydd eu bod yn teimlo nad oeddent yn cymryd rhan yn y cam cyntaf a’u bod wedi colli eu cyfle. Yr wyf wedi gofyn i swyddogion edrych ar yr enghreifftiau penodol hyn. Os oes gennych ragor o enghreifftiau, byddwn yn falch o’u hystyried. Yr wyf am sicrhau bod holl bartneriaid y gymuned yn cymryd rhan, a rhaid inni sicrhau bod yr ymgynghoriad sydd ei angen i ddatblygu’r cynllun yn un dilys. Os oes gennych chi, neu unrhyw Aelod arall o’r Cynulliad, enghreifftiau yr ydych yn teimlo y dylem eu hystyried neu lle y dylem ymyrryd, byddwn yn falch o wneud hynny.
Mantais i Bowys yn sgîl y Setliad Llywodraeth Leol
Benefit of Local Government Settlement to Powys
Will the Minister make a statement on the benefit to Powys of the local government settlement? (OAQ15372)
A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad ar y fantais i Bowys yn sgîl y setliad llywodraeth leol? (OAQ15372)
Powys is receiving an increase of over £8 million for 2002-03 in the revenue support grant and redistributed non-domestic rates from the National Assembly, when adjustments are made for the transfer of large functions. This is an increase of 6.8 per cent, well above the rate of inflation. The standard spending assessment for Powys has increased by 7.3 per cent from 2001-02, when adjusted to reflect transfers out and new burdens. Powys is also benefiting from a substantial increase in the money that the National Assembly is making available for capital programmes next year.
Mae Powys yn cael cynnydd o dros £8 miliwn ar gyfer 2002-03 yn y grant cymorth refeniw a’r cyfraddau annomestig a ail-ddosbarthwyd gan y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, pan wneir addasiadau ar gyfer trosglwyddo swyddogaethau mawr. Mae hyn yn gynnydd o 6.8 y cant, sydd yn llawer uwch na chyfradd chwyddiant. Mae’r asesiad gwariant safonol ar gyfer Powys wedi cynyddu 7.3 y cant o 2001-02, wedi’i addasu i adlewyrchu trosglwyddiadau allan a beichiau newydd. Mae Powys hefyd yn elwa o gynnydd sylweddol yn yr arian y mae’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol yn ei roi i raglenni cyfalaf y flwyddyn nesaf.
Will you confirm that there is sufficient funding in the settlement so that all teachers who have had the first threshold payment will be able to receive the second threshold payment this September?
A wnewch chi gadarnhau bod digon o arian yn y setliad fel y bydd yr holl athrawon sydd wedi cael y taliad trothwy cyntaf yn gallu cael yr ail daliad trothwy y mis Medi hwn?
My colleague, Jane Davidson, the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning, and local authorities have raised this matter with me. I am fairly certain that there is sufficient money in the settlement, but I have already indicated that I will review this matter if necessary.
Mae fy nghyd-Aelod, Jane Davidson, y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes, ac awdurdodau lleol wedi codi’r mater hwn gyda mi. Yr wyf yn weddol sicr bod digon o arian yn y setliad, ond yr wyf eisoes wedi nodi y byddaf yn adolygu’r mater hwn os oes angen.
Do you accept that the settlement does not allow for the full funding of residents in nursing homes and residential homes in Powys? Do you also accept that costly increased standards expected of local authorities, however welcome, without commensurate increased funding, are a tax on the people of Wales?
A dderbyniwch nad oes darpariaeth lawn yn y setliad ar gyfer ariannu preswylwyr cartrefi nyrsio a chartrefi preswyl ym Mhowys yn llawn? A dderbyniwch hefyd, os na cheir yr un cynnydd ariannol, y bydd y safonau uwch costus a ddisgwylir gennym gan awdurdodau lleol, pa mor dderbyniol bynnag y bônt, yn faich ar bobl Cymru?
I do not accept that.
Ni dderbyniaf hynny.
Local authorities in my constituency, Cardiff City and County Council, Rhondda Cynon Taff County Borough Council, and the Vale of Glamorgan Council, will face difficulties resulting from the National Assembly’s local government settlement. They will be spending millions to finance free bus services and teachers’ threshold payments, but will not receive their funding for some time afterwards. Why does the National Assembly not provide adequate funding up front?
Bydd awdurdodau lleol yn fy etholaeth, Cyngor Dinas a Sir Caerdydd, Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Rhondda Cynon Taf, a Chyngor Bro Morgannwg, yn wynebu anawsterau sy’n deillio o setliad llywodraeth leol y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol. Byddant yn gwario miliynau i ariannu gwasanaethau bysiau am ddim a thaliadau trothwy i athrawon, ond ni fyddant yn cael eu harian am beth amser wedyn. Pam nad yw’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol yn darparu digon o arian ymlaen llaw?
The National Assembly is providing one of the best local government settlements in recent years. There is sufficient money under all the headings you listed. It is important that people start to read my report on how the formula works and what the distribution is. The local authorities that you mentioned have benefited substantially.
Mae’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol yn rhoi un o’r setliadau llywodraeth leol gorau yn y blynyddoedd diwethaf. Mae digon o arian o dan bob un o’r penawdau a restrwyd gennych. Mae’n bwysig bod pobl yn dechrau darllen fy adroddiad ar sut y mae’r fformiwla’n gweithio a beth yw’r dosbarthiad. Mae’r awdurdodau lleol a grybwyllwyd gennych wedi elwa’n sylweddol.
Materion Diogelwch yn y Gymuned
Community Safety Issues
Pa drafodaethau a gafodd y Gweinidog gydag uwch swyddogion yr heddlu mewn perthynas â materion diogelwch yn y gymuned? (OAQ15357)
What discussions has the Minister had with senior police officers regarding community safety issues? (OAQ15357)
I meet with the chief constables and police authorities on a regular basis and discuss a range of issues; community safety is high on the agenda. The Crime Reductions Director for Wales and his team are similarly in close contact with the police and they work towards creating safer Welsh communities. There is a high level of co-operation in Wales, which is an exemplar within the UK.
Byddaf yn cwrdd â’r prif gwnstabliaid ac awdurdodau’r heddlu’n rheolaidd ac yn trafod amrywiaeth o faterion; mae diogelwch cymunedol, yn un o’r materion pwysicaf ar yr agenda. Yn yr un modd, mae Cyfarwyddwr Lleihau Troseddu Cymru a’i dîm mewn cysylltiad agos â’r heddlu ac maent yn gweithio tuag at greu cymunedau mwy diogel yng Nghymru. Mae lefel uchel o gydweithrediad yng Nghymru, sydd yn batrwm yn y DU.
Yr oedd consensws clir yn y Cyfarfod Llawn ddydd Mawrth y dylai cyfrifoldeb am yr heddlu gael ei drosglwyddo i’r Cynulliad. Byddai hynny’n hwyluso’r math o gydweithrediad y soniasoch amdano. Fodd bynnag, yn y cyfamser, mae’r cwestiwn cyllid yn aros. Dilynaf yr hyn a ddywedodd Janet Ryder drwy nodi y bu gostyngiad yng nghyfran Cymru o grant yr heddlu, serch y ffigur a roesoch yn gynharach. Yr ydych hefyd wedi capio’r presept. Deallaf eich bod yn cwrdd ag awdurdodau’r heddlu yr wythnos nesaf. A fydd gennych newyddion da iddynt a fydd yn eu galluogi i ddarparu eu gwasanaethau yn fwy effeithiol gyda chyllid digonol?
There was a clear consensus in Plenary on Tuesday that responsibility for the police should be transferred to the Assembly. This would facilitate the kind of collaboration you mentioned. However, in the meantime, the question of funding remains. To follow up the comments made by Janet Ryder, Wales’s share of the police grant has been decreasing, despite the figure that you quoted earlier. You have also capped the precept. I understand that you are meeting the police authorities next week. Will you have good news that will enable them to deliver their services more effectively with sufficient budgets?
I have not capped anything yet. I have indicated to police authorities that I expect them to be responsible when they set the precept. I also made it clear last week that as local authority members are on police authorities, I am sure that they will take into account the views of the taxpayers within their local area about what is required in terms of policing. As I responded to you in an earlier question, issues concerned with police funding are foremost in my thoughts as a result of discussions within the Partnership Council, and I will be taking those issues forward with the police and the Home Office next week.
Nid wyf wedi capio unrhyw beth eto. Yr wyf wedi mynegi i awdurdodau’r heddlu fy mod yn disgwyl iddynt fod yn gyfrifol pan fyddant yn gosod y praesept. Eglurais hefyd yr wythnos diwethaf, gan fod aelodau o’r awdurdod lleol ar awdurdodau’r heddlu, fy mod yn sïwr y byddant yn ystyried barn y trethdalwyr o fewn eu hardal leol ynghylch yr hyn sydd ei angen o ran plismona. Fel yn yr ateb a roddais ichi mewn cwestiwn cynharach, mae materion sy’n ymwneud ag ariannu’r heddlu ar flaen fy meddwl o ganlyniad i drafodaethau o fewn y Cyngor Partneriaeth, a byddaf yn codi’r materion hynny â’r heddlu a’r Swyddfa Gartref yr wythnos nesaf.
I am sure that you will agree that a strong partnership between the police, councils and communities is vital in taking community safety issues forward. There is great concern in my constituency about the proposed closure of a police station in Valley, which is a rural area, and its transfer to Holyhead, where there is a completely different type of policing. In your meetings with the police, will you ensure that they communicate with local people on these issues, so that they fully understand the plans?
Yr wyf yn siŵr y byddwch yn cytuno bod partneriaeth gref rhwng yr heddlu, cynghorau a chymunedau wrth ddatblygu materion diogelwch cymunedol yn hanfodol. Mae pryder mawr yn fy etholaeth ynghylch y bwriad i gau gorsaf heddlu yn Fali, sy’n ardal wledig, a’i throsglwyddo i Gaergybi, lle mae math hollol wahanol o blismona. Yn eich cyfarfodydd â’r heddlu, a sicrhewch eu bod yn cyfathrebu â phobl leol ar y materion hyn, fel eu bod yn deall y cynlluniau’n llawn?
I will raise that point, if you write to me, in my meeting with chief constables and police authorities next week.
Codaf y mater hwnnw, os byddwch yn ysgrifennu ataf, yn fy nghyfarfod â’r prif gwnstabliaid ac awdurdodau’r heddlu yr wythnos nesaf.
Meithrin Gallu mewn Cymunedau Difreintiedig
Capacity Building in Deprived Communities
Will the Minister make a statement on how Communities First funding has been spent on capacity building in our most deprived communities? (OAQ15311)
A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad ynghylch sut y cafodd arian Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf ei wario ar feithrin gallu yn ein cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig? (OAQ15311)
That funding has been used in many different ways, because we want to ensure that solid foundations are established for the development of the programme.
Defnyddiwyd yr arian hwnnw mewn sawl ffordd wahanol, oherwydd ein bod am sicrhau y caiff sylfeini cadarn eu sefydlu er mwyn datblygu’r rhaglen.
The community trust fund will be administered by the Communities First support network. Will you tell me what that is? Does it operate throughout Wales and how will groups apply to it?
Caiff y gronfa ymddiriedolaeth gymunedol ei gweinyddu gan rwydwaith cynnal Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf. A allwch ddweud wrthyf beth yw hynny? A yw’n gweithredu drwy Gymru a sut y bydd grwpiau’n gwneud ceisiadau ar ei gyfer?
The network is currently considering how groups will apply. It is being co-ordinated by Simon Jones, chief executive of the Wales Co-op Centre, and several organisations are involved in it. If it would be helpful to Members, I will put a note in the Library indicating the membership.
Mae’r rhwydwaith ar hyn o bryd yn ystyried faint o grwpiau fydd yn gwneud cais. Caiff ei gydlynu gan Simon Jones, prif weithredwr Canolfan Co-op Cymru, ac mae sawl sefydliad yn cymryd rhan ynddo. Os byddai yn ddefnyddiol i Aelodau, rhoddaf nodyn yn y Llyfrgell yn nodi’r aelodaeth.
There are several wards in my area that fall just outside the reaches of Communities First. What help can you give to deprived rural areas?
Mae sawl ward yn fy ardal sydd ychydig heibio i gyrraedd Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf. Pa gymorth y gallwch ei roi i ardaloedd gwledig difreintiedig?
As I indicated, Powys presented an imaginative scheme during the Communities First bidding process. We must do more to encourage such areas. There is concern about the wards that are just outside the almost 100 wards included in Communities First. I hope that, when we start to deal with the first 100 wards and others, we will think in terms of the overall programme, which I have always said is generational. We will then be able to assist other communities.
Fel y nodais, cyflwynodd Powys gynllun llawn dychymyg yn ystod proses cyflwyno ceisiadau Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf. Rhaid inni wneud mwy i annog ardaloedd o’r fath. Mae pryder ynghylch y wardiau sydd ychydig y tu allan i’r 100 o wardiau bron a gaiff eu cynnwys yn Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf. Gobeithiaf, pan ddechreuwn ymdrin â’r 100 o wardiau cyntaf ac eraill, y byddwn yn ystyried y rhaglen yn ei chyfanrwydd, sy’n genedliadol fel y dywedais erioed. Yna gallwn gynorthwyo cymunedau eraill.
Cytundebau Polisi gydag Awdurdodau Lleol
Policy Agreements with Local Authorities
Will the Minister make a statement on the Assembly’s policy agreements with local authorities? (OAQ15355)
A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad ynghylch cytundebau polisi’r Cynulliad gydag awdurdodau lleol? (OAQ15355)
I was pleased to establish policy agreements in Wales, as they show the true value of collaboration and partnership. This shows how we can work together effectively to focus on improving performance in areas that are important to the people of Wales.
Yr oedd yn bleser gennyf sefydlu cytundebau polisi yng Nghymru, gan eu bod yn dangos gwir werth cydweithredu a phartneriaeth. Dengys hyn sut y gallwn gydweithio’n effeithiol i ganolbwyntio ar wella perfformiad mewn meysydd sy’n bwysig i bobl Cymru.
The key issue for most people about policy agreements is that they concentrate on the outputs from local government, rather than on the inputs, on which opposition parties seem to concentrate in the Chamber. Will you publish a full list of the policy agreements, so that we can have a better idea about what the various local authorities are agreeing to implement with the Assembly?
Y mater allweddol i’r rhan fwyaf o bobl ynghylch cytundebau polisi yw eu bod yn canolbwyntio ar yr allbynnau gan lywodraeth leol, yn hytrach nag ar y mewnbynnau, yr ymddengys fod y gwrthbleidiau yn canolbwyntio arnynt yn y Siambr. A gyhoeddwch restr lawn o’r cytundebau polisi, er mwyn inni allu cael syniad gwell o’r hyn y mae gwahanol awdurdodau lleol yn cytuno i’w weithredu gyda’r Cynulliad?
Yes. There are general points within the agreements, for example, on improved educational attainment, a proper balance of care for elderly people between their homes and residential homes, and a proper level of provision for people with disabilities and mental health problems. The public is interested in seeing the outcomes. I will make the necessary information available when all 22 agreements have been signed.
Gwnaf. Mae pwyntiau cyffredinol yn y cytundebau, er enghraifft, ar gyrhaeddiad addysgol gwell, cydbwysedd priodol o ofal ar gyfer yr henoed rhwng eu cartrefi a chartrefi preswyl, a lefel briodol o ddarpariaeth ar gyfer pobl ag anableddau a phroblemau iechyd meddwl. Mae gan y cyhoedd ddiddordeb mewn gweld y canlyniadau. Bydd y wybodaeth angenrheidiol ar gael pan fydd y 22 cytundeb wedi’u llofnodi.
You itemised some of the key outcome areas. Will you expand on that, because this is a matter of great interest to local authorities, as you know, they are pressing for greater freedom and responsibility?
Bu ichi restru rhai o’r meysydd allweddol o ran canlyniadau. A ymhelaethwch ar hynny, oherwydd mae hyn yn fater o gryn ddiddordeb i awdurdodau lleol, fel y gwyddoch, sy’n pwyso am fwy o ryddid a chyfrifoldeb?
That is important, as several other issues are included. You are correct. We are considering the use of public transport, and the amount of waste recycled or composted, which will also be included. Therefore, when I publish those agreements, we will have a clear idea of the outcome targets and arrangements with local authorities.
Mae hynny’n bwysig, am fod sawl mater arall wedi’i gynnwys. Yr ydych yn gywir. Yr ydym yn ystyried defnyddio trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus, a faint o wastraff a gaiff ei ailgylchu neu ei gompostio, a gaiff ei gynnwys hefyd. Felly, pan gyhoeddaf y cytundebau hynny, bydd gennym syniad clir o’r targedau canlyniad a’r trefniadau gydag awdurdodau lleol.
I declare an interest as a member of Rhondda Cynon Taff County Borough Council. When do you intend to allocate the funding in the current year’s settlement under the policy agreements? A month or two remain of the current financial year and local government has not seen the money.
Datganaf fuddiant fel aelod o Gyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Rhondda Cynon Taf. Pryd y bwriadwch ddyrannu’r arian yn setliad eleni o dan drefniadau’r polisi? Mae mis neu ddau ar ôl o’r flwyddyn ariannol bresennol ac nid yw llywodraeth leol wedi gweld yr arian.
I have signed 19 of the 22 agreements. The remaining three are with the authorities for final verification. I hope to sign those shortly and then distribute the remainder of the £10 million performance incentive grant, if that is to what you refer.
Yr wyf wedi llofnodi 19 o’r 22 cytundeb. Mae’r tri sy’n weddill gan yr awdurdodau i’w dilysu’n derfynol. Gobeithiaf lofnodi’r rhain yn fuan ac yna dosbarthu gweddill y grant cymell perfformiad o £10 miliwn, os mai dyna’r hyn y cyfeiriwch ato.
Cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd
Questions to the Minister for Environment
Camlas Trefaldwyn
Montgomery Canal
When did the Minister last discuss developments on the Montgomery canal with British Waterways? (OAQ15383)
Pryd oedd y tro olaf i’r Gweinidog drafod datblygiadau camlas Trefaldwyn gyda Dyfrffyrdd Prydain? (OAQ15383)
Sue Essex The Minister for Environment spoken in English p. 16
Sue Essex Y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16
I have had past discussions with David Fletcher, the chief executive of British Waterways, on canal developments in the whole of Wales, and spoke about Montgomery. I have had a further exchange of correspondence with David regarding the Montgomery canal. We recently published draft strategy orders aimed at building a roundabout on the A483 at Maerdy bridge close to the Montgomery canal. It would not have affected the canal or its restoration in line with the 1987 Act. However, British Waterways have recently expressed doubts as to whether restoration, in line with this Act, is viable due to the canal’s recent designation as a site of special scientific interest and as a candidate special area of conservation. I have carefully considered this issue and, following consultation with my engineers, I have decided that it is right to put this junction improvement scheme on hold. I am sure that British Waterways will welcome this announcement that will be contained in a press statement to be released today.
Cefais drafodaethau yn y gorffennol gyda David Fletcher, prif weithredwr Dyfrffyrdd Prydain, ar ddatblygiadau camlesi yng Nghymru gyfan, a soniwyd am Drefaldwyn. Bûm yn gohebu ymhellach gyda David o ran camlas Trefaldwyn. Yn ddiweddar, cyhoeddasom orchmynion strategaeth drafft ar gyfer adeiladu cylchfan ar yr A483 wrth bont Maerdy yn agos at gamlas Trefaldwyn. Ni fyddai wedi effeithio ar y gamlas na’r gwaith o’i hadfer yn unol â Deddf 1987. Fodd bynnag, mynegodd Dyfrffyrdd Prydain yn ddiweddar amheuon a yw adfer, yn unol â’r Ddeddf hon, yn ymarferol o gofio bod y gamlas wedi ei phenodi’n ddiweddar yn safle o ddiddordeb gwyddonol arbennig ac ardal gadwraeth arbennig o bosibl. Yr wyf wedi ystyried y mater hwn yn ofalus ac, ar ôl ymgynghori â’m peirianwyr, yr wyf wedi penderfynu ei bod yn iawn imi ohirio’r cynllun gwella cyffyrdd hwn. Yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd Dyfrffyrdd Prydain yn croesawu’r cyhoeddiad hwn a fydd mewn datganiad i’r wasg a gaiff ei ryddhau heddiw.
Earlier today, I received an appalling answer from your colleague. However, I have now received probably the best answer ever from a Minister in this Chamber. I thank you for that. I have always thought that your were a good Minister, but today, in my mind, you have become a star.
Yn gynharach heddiw, cefais ateb gwarthus gan eich cyd-Aelod. Fodd bynnag, cefais yn awr yr ateb gorau erioed siŵr o fod gan Weinidog yn y Siambr hon. Diolchaf ichi am hynny. Credais erioed eich bod yn Weinidog da ond heddiw, yn fy nhyb i, daethoch yn seren.
I am glad to make Glyn Davies a happy man. I know that this issue is of important local concern. I hope that we can find a way through this together.
Yr wyf yn falch o wneud Glyn Davies yn ddyn hapus. Gwn fod y mater hwn o bwysigrwydd lleol mawr. Gobeithiaf y gallwn ddod o hyd i ffordd drwy hyn gyda’n gilydd.
Minister, you could make us even happier by providing many of the trunk road improvements that we have needed for many years. In accordance with the Babtie report—
Weinidog, gallech ein gwneud yn hapusach fyth drwy ddarparu llawer o’r gwelliannau cefnffordd y bu eu hangen arnom ers llawer o flynyddoedd. Yn unol ag adroddiad Babtie—
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 17
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17
Order. This question is about canals not trunk roads.
Trefn. Nid oes a wnelo hyn â chamlesi na chefnffyrdd.
With reference to the Montgomery canal, I too am pleased to hear the news. However, in the overall context of waterways, do you not think that we need to take control of the waterways in Wales so that we can renovate them and exploit their full economic potential?
Gan gyfeirio at gamlas Trefaldwyn, yr wyf innau hefyd yn falch o glywed y newyddion. Fodd bynnag, yng nghyd-destun cyffredinol dyfrffyrdd, oni chredwch fod angen inni reoli’r dyfrffyrdd yng Nghymru, fel y gallwn eu hadfer a manteisio arnynt i’w llawn botensial yn economaidd?
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 17
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17
Order. This is not a question about general waterways. It is specifically about the Montgomery canal.
Trefn. Nid oes a wnelo’r cwestiwn â dyfrffyrdd cyffredinol. Mae a wnelo’n benodol â chamlas Trefaldwyn.
I am talking about British Waterways.
Yr wyf yn sôn am Ddyfrffyrdd Prydain.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 17
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17
I do not think so. The question refers to the Montgomery canal in relation to British Waterways, not the other way around. It is a specific question and you received an excellent answer. Brian Hancock wants to ask a question, but it must relate to Montgomery.
Nid wyf yn credu hynny. Cyfeiria’r cwestiwn at gamlas Trefaldwyn mewn perthynas â Dyfrffyrdd Prydain, nid y ffordd arall. Mae’n gwestiwn penodol a chawsoch ateb rhagorol. Mae Brian Hancock am ofyn cwestiwn ond rhaid iddo ymwneud â Threfaldwyn.
It does, Llywydd. One of my constituents, who is a member of the south Wales branch of British Waterways has written to me enquiring about the safety of a drop canal being proposed for the Montgomery canal. Will this drop canal be installed because there is a history of accidents occuring in drop canals, particularly in rural areas? I would hate to see a family on a canal boat crushed or drowned. Will you draft guidance on other canals in Wales? I raise this as chair of the Islwyn canal association and vice president of the Brecon, Monmouthshire and Abergavenny Canal Trust.
Mae’n ymwneud â hynny, Lywydd. Ysgrifennodd un o’m hetholwyr, sy’n aelod o gangen de Cymru Dyfrffyrdd Prydain, ataf yn holi ynglŷn â diogelwch camlas ostwng sy’n cael ei chynnig ar gyfer camlas Trefaldwyn. A gaiff y gamlas ostwng hon ei gosod oherwydd digwyddodd nifer o ddamweiniau yn y gorffennol ar gamlesi gostwng, yn arbennig mewn ardaloedd gwledig? Ni hoffwn weld teulu ar fad camlas yn cael eu gwasgu neu eu boddi. A luniwch ganllawiau ar gamlesi eraill yng Nghymru? Codaf hyn fel cadeirydd cymdeithas camlas Islwyn ac is-lywydd Ymddiriedolaeth Camlesi Aberhonddu, Sir Fynwy a’r Fenni.
This reminds me of the Radio 4 programme Just a Minute in terms of repetition and deviation, and so on. It is not a devolved matter and as I understand from my colleague, Mick Bates, the situation that you mentioned does not apply to this canal. I am not as familiar with Montgomery as Mick and Glyn are. I will follow it up, Brian, in terms of safety. Hopefully we can offer the reassurance that you require.
Mae hyn yn fy atgoffa o’r rhaglen ar Radio 4 Just a Minute o ran ailadrodd a gwyro ac yn y blaen. Nid mater datganoledig ydyw ac fel y deallaf yn ôl fy nghyd-Aelod, Mick Bates, nid yw’r sefyllfa a grybwyllwyd gennych yn berthnasol i’r gamlas hon. Nid wyf mor gyfarwydd â Threfaldwyn â Mick a Glyn. Gwnaf ymholiadau pellach, Brian, o ran diogelwch. Gobeithio y gallwn gynnig y sicrwydd sydd ei angen arnoch.
Buddsoddi yn y System Rheiffyrdd
Investment in the Railway System
What discussions has the Minister had with her counterparts at Westminster regarding Wales’s share of the proposed investment in the railway system? (OAQ15291)
Pa drafodaethau a gafodd y Gweinidog gyda’i chydweithwyr yn San Steffan ynghylch dyraniad Cymru o’r buddsoddiad arfaethedig yn y system rheilffyrdd? (OAQ15291)
I, and the First Minister, have discussions with our counterparts in Westminster and the Strategic Rail Authority on investment issues in the system. We met Richard Bowker, chairman of the SRA in Cardiff on 7 January, when funding issues were discussed. I set out my views on rail investment in my statement last week on 24 January. I am writing to Stephen Byers, welcoming the strategy as a positive development, while also indicating that we would wish to see investment, particularly on the Great Western main line, brought forward.
Cefais i, a Phrif Weinidog Cymru, drafodaethau gyda’n cydweithwyr yn San Steffan a’r Awdurdod Rheilffyrdd Strategol ar faterion buddsoddi yn y system. Cyfarfuom a Richard Bowker, cadeirydd yr awdurdod yng Nghaerdydd ar 7 Ionawr, pan drafodwyd materion ariannu. Nodais fy marn ar fuddsoddi yn y rheilffyrdd yn fy natganiad yr wythnos diwethaf ar 24 Ionawr. Yr wyf yn ysgrifennu at Stephen Byers, i groesawu’r strategaeth fel datblygiad cadarnhaol, tra’n nodi hefyd yr hoffwn weld buddsoddiad, yn arbennig ar brif linell y Great Western, yn cael ei ddwyn ymlaen.
The priority given to the Wales and Borders franchise is an indication of the SRA’s commitment to Wales. The SRA announced yesterday that eight companies have pre-qualified, indicating the strong interest in the franchise. A preferred bidder will be known in the autumn and should start operating in the spring of next year.
Awgryma’r flaenoriaeth a roddir i fasnachfraint Cymru a’r Gororau ymrwymiad yr awdurdod i Gymru. Cyhoeddodd yr awdurdod ddoe bod wyth cwmni wedi rhag-gymhwyso, sy’n dangos y diddordeb mawr yn y fasnachfraint. Bydd y cynigiwr a ddewisir yn hysbys yn yr hydref a dylai ddechrau gweithredu yn ystod gwanwyn y flwyddyn nesaf.
The Westminster Government has proposed £70 billion of public and matched private investment over the next 10 years. Wales’s share of this, at 5 per cent of the total, based on population, would be £3.5 billion, or £350 million a year. How do you intend to ensure that we receive that in Wales, bearing in mind that the age of our lines and rolling stock, the condition of our stations and the quality of the service provided in Wales mean that the quality is far below the service in south-east England?
Mae Llywodraeth San Steffan wedi cynnig £70 biliwn o fuddsoddiad cyhoeddus a buddsoddiad preifat cyfatebol dros y 10 mlynedd nesaf. Cyfran Cymru o hyn, sef 5 y cant o’r cyfanswm, yn seiliedig ar y boblogaeth, fyddai £3.5 biliwn, neu £350 miliwn y flwyddyn. Sut y bwriadwch sicrhau ein bod yn derbyn y swm hwnnw yng Nghymru, o gofio bod oedran ein rheilffyrdd a’n cerbydau, cyflwr ein gorsafoedd ac ansawdd y gwasanaeth a ddarperir yng Nghymru yn golygu bod yr ansawdd yn is o lawer na’r gwasanaeth yn ne-ddwyrain Lloegr?
This is rehearsing last Thursday’s arguments, when I clarified the investment figures for Wales. I do not understand from where you get your figures. You are not taking into account what I have just mentioned, namely the Wales and Borders franchise. You have only considered an element of infrastructure investment. There are two other critical aspects: we are receiving 20 per cent of the rail partnership fund, basing it on your 5 per cent Barnett formula, Owen, what should we say? We will give the other 14 per cent or so back to England? We do not want it because it is more than our fair share?
Ailadrodd dadleuon ddydd Iau diwethaf yw hyn, pan eglurais y ffigurau buddsoddi ar gyfer Cymru. Ni ddeallaf o ble y cewch eich ffigurau. Nid ydych yn ystyried yr hyn yr wyf newydd sôn amdano, sef masnachfraint Cymru a’r Gororau. Dim ond elfen o’r buddsoddiad yn y seilwaith yr ydych wedi ei hystyried. Mae dwy agwedd holl bwysig arall: cawn 20 y cant o’r gronfa partneriaeth y rheilffyrdd, gan ei seilio ar eich fformiwla Barnett o 5 y cant, Owen, beth y dylem ei ddweud? Byddwn yn rhoi tua’r 14 y cant arall yn ôl i Loegr? Nid ydym am ei gael oherwydd mae’n fwy na’n cyfran deg?
We want £3.5 billion.
Yr ydym am gael £3.5 biliwn.
I am trying to answer your question. You must understand that there are three key elements of funding: the rail partnership fund’s infrastructure, of which I have said we are receiving 20 per cent on schemes that have delivered so far; the subsidy; and underpinning the Wales and Borders franchise. Nobody knows that figure yet because the Wales and Borders franchise has not been let. As I have explained, that will be let later this year. It is critical for us to continue to receive a good level of subsidy for that because it is important for railway lines in Wales, particularly for the Valleys Lines and the other lines we want to extend.
Yr wyf yn ceisio ateb eich cwestiwn. Rhaid ichi ddeall bod tair elfen allweddol i ariannu: seilwaith cronfa partneriaeth y rheilffyrdd, yr wyf newydd ddweud ein bod yn derbyn 20 y cant ohono ar gynlluniau sydd wedi cyflawni hyd yma; y cymhorthdal; ac ategu masnachfraint Cymru a’r Gororau. Ni ŵyr neb y ffigur hwnnw eto gan na osodwyd masnachfraint Cymru a’r Gororau. Fel yr eglurais, caiff honno ei gosod yn ddiweddarach eleni. Mae’n hollbwysig inni barhau i dderbyn lefel dda o gymhorthdal ar gyfer hynny oherwydd ei bod yn bwysig i reilffyrdd yng Nghymru, yn arbennig y Valley Lines a’r llinellau eraill yr ydym am eu hymestyn.
While I welcome the announcement of the £575,000 Strategic Rail Authority funding that means more seating for passengers on services between Aberdare and Cardiff, and Treherbert and Cardiff, do you agree that continued investment and co-ordination is still needed to deliver two services an hour on the Aberdare to Cardiff line? Do you also share my disappointment that rugby fans in my constituency, who planned to use the train to attend a recent international game in Cardiff, could not do so without being late for the match?
Er fy mod yn croesawu’r cyhoeddiad bod £575,000 ar gael gan yr Awdurdod Rheilffyrdd Strategol sy’n golygu mwy o seddau i deithwyr ar wasanaethau rhwng Aberdâr a Chaerdydd, a Threherbert a Chaerdydd, a gytunwch fod angen parhau i fuddsoddi a chydgysylltu er mwyn cyflawni dau wasanaeth yr awr ar linell Aberdâr i Gaerdydd? A rannwch fy siom hefyd na allai cefnogwyr rygbi yn fy etholaeth, a oedd yn bwriadu defnyddio’r trên i fynychu gêm ryngwladol yn ddiweddar yng Nghaerdydd, wneud hynny heb fod yn hwyr i’r gêm?
I will take the second point first. A working group was established to try to co-ordinate issues such as transport services and events at the Millennium Stadium, and I receive frequent complaints about this. In fairness to the train companies, they say that they need considerable prior notification of these events, and they would contend—and I am only saying what they would contend—that when arrangements are made late in the day, sometimes to match television coverage, they find it difficult to change their arrangements. There needs to be better co-ordination and more advanced warnings for all the transport companies, including the bus companies.
Trafodaf yr ail bwynt yn gyntaf. Sefydlwyd gweithgor i geisio cydgysylltu materion fel gwasanaethau trafnidiaeth a digwyddiadau yn Stadiwm y Mileniwm a chaf gwynion yn aml am hyn. Gyda thegwch i gwmnïau tren, dywedant fod angen eu hysbysu cryn dipyn ymlaen llaw o’r digwyddiadau hyn, a byddent yn honni—a dim ond yr hyn y byddent yn ei honni yr wyf yn ei ddweud—pan wneir trefniadau’n hwyr, weithiau i gyfateb â rhaglenni teledu, cânt anhawster i newid eu trefniadau. Mae angen cydgysylltu’n well a rhoi rhybuddion yn gynt ymlaen llaw ar gyfer yr holl gwmnïau trafnidiaeth, gan gynnwys cwmnïau bysiau.
On the wider issue of aspirations for the Valleys service, you are right, we should all have strong aspirations for this. We have seen a 20 per cent growth in the last three years in the Valleys services. If we can get a high standard—and I would like to pay tribute to the work of the South Wales Integrated Fast Transit Consortium, which is all the local authorities and the passenger transport authorities coming together—and a strong programme accessing the SRA partnership fund, we could get the improvements you want for your community.
Ar fater ehangach dyheadau ar gyfer gwasanaeth y Cymoedd, yr ydych yn iawn, dylai pob un ohonom fod â dyheadau cryf ar gyfer hyn. Gwelsom dwf o 20 y cant yn y tair blynedd diwethaf yng ngwasanaethau’r Cymoedd. Pe gallem gael safon uchel—a hoffwn dalu teyrnged i waith Consortiwm Teithio Cyflym Integredig De Cymru, sef yr holl awdurdodau lleol a’r awdurdodau cludo teithwyr yn dod at ei gilydd—a rhaglen gref yn defnyddio cronfa bartneriaeth yr Awdurdod Rheilffyrdd Strategol, gallem gael y gwelliannau y dymunwch ar gyfer eich cymuned.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 20
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20
There are two further questions on railways, and I am sure Members would like to reach question 6.
Mae dau gwestiwn arall ar reilffyrdd ac yr wyf yn siŵr y byddai’r Aelodau yn hoffi cyrraedd cwestiwn 6.
Gwasanaethau Rheilffyrdd
Railway Services
Will the Minister make a statement on the future development of railway services in Wales? (OAQ15294)
A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad ar ddatblygu gwasanaethau rheilffyrdd Cymru yn y dyfodol? (OAQ15294)
I am optimistic about the future of railway services in Wales. I have set out a clear way forward in the transport framework. Assembly spending will back some of those key proposals, and we are working in support of our key partners.
Yr wyf yn optimistaidd ynglŷn â dyfodol gwasanaethau rheilffyrdd yng Nghymru. Yr wyf wedi nodi ffordd glir ymlaen yn y fframwaith trafnidiaeth. Bydd gwariant y Cynulliad yn ategu rhai o’r cynigion allweddol hynny, ac yr ydym yn gweithio i gefnogi ein partneriaid allweddol.
What developments do you envisage in the near future to further integrated transport and rail improvements in Gwent?
Pa ddatblygiadau a ragwelwch yn y dyfodol agos i hyrwyddo trafnidiaeth integredig a gwelliannau rheilffyrdd yng Ngwent?
There is considerable potential in Gwent for greater integration for people in your communities around Newport, and those of the Gwent valley areas, such as Cwmbran. There is potential for these areas to work together. The Transport Integration in the Gwent Economic Region Consortium is the sister or brother organisation of SWIFT, and I will be meeting with it next week to see how we can put ambition into that programme and take it forward. There are opportunities for the railways in places such as Ebbw Vale—you know what the opportunities are there—and the Llanwern site. There are also opportunities for increasing station connections, Caerleon being the obvious one. However, that also needs to be done in connection with bus routes and park and ride facilities. Therefore, I feel that there is scope in the former Gwent region.
Mae cryn botensial yng Ngwent ar gyfer integreiddio gwell i bobl yn eich cymunedau o amgylch Casnewydd, a’r rheini yn ardaloedd cymoedd Gwent, fel Cwmbran. Mae potensial i’r ardaloedd hyn gydweithio. Yr Consortiwm Integreiddio Trafnidiaeth yn Rhanbarth Economaidd Gwent yw chwaer neu frawd-sefydliad SWIFT, a byddaf yn cyfarfod ag ef yr wythnos nesaf i weld sut y gallwn gyflwyno uchelgais yn y rhaglen honno a’i datblygu. Mae cyfleoedd i’r rheilffyrdd mewn mannau fel Glynebwy—gwyddoch beth yw’r manteision yno—a safle Llanwern. Mae cyfleoedd hefyd i gynyddu cysylltiadau gorsafoedd, a Chaerllion yw’r un amlwg. Fodd bynnag, mae angen gwneud hynny hefyd mewn cysylltiad â llwybrau bysiau a chyfleusterau parcio a theithio. Felly, teimlaf fod posibiliadau yn hen ardal Gwent.
All of the proposed developments will depend on whether the necessary investment is available. What consultations have you had with colleagues in Westminster on the levels of private investment needed to match the public investment required to make this happen? Concerns have been raised, given the state of the railways in Wales, whether it will be possible to attract that private investment to developments here.
Bydd yr holl ddatblygiadau arfaethedig yn dibynnu ar ba un a yw’r buddsoddiad angenrheidiol ar gael. Pa ymgynghoriadau a gawsoch gyda’ch cyd-aelodau yn San Steffan ar y lefelau buddsoddiad preifat sydd eu hangen i gyfateb â’r buddsoddiad cyhoeddus sy’n ofynnol er mwyn i hyn ddigwydd? Codwyd pryderon, o gofio cyflwr y rheilffyrdd yng Nghymru, ynglŷn â pha mor bosibl y bydd denu’r buddsoddiad preifat hwnnw i ddatblygiadau yma.
I reiterate my reply to Owen John Thomas, regarding the news we heard yesterday that eight companies have bid for the Wales and Borders franchise. Members of the Environment, Planning and Transport Committee will appreciate its significance. It indicates that there is considerable interest from the private sector. It also reflects that it sees that as an opportunity and is investing. It recognises the Assembly’s commitment to investing in railway and public transport. Members remember that we supported the north Wales railway, and we are investing in infrastructure. The private sector feels—as I do—optimistic about the future of railways in Wales.
Ailadroddaf fy ateb i Owen John Thomas, am y newyddion a glywsom ddoe bod wyth cwmni wedi cynnig am fasnachfraint Cymru a’r Gororau. Bydd Aelodau o Bwyllgor yr Amgylchedd, Cynllunio a Thrafnidiaeth yn gwerthfawrogi ei harwyddocâd. Awgryma fod cryn ddiddordeb o gyfeiriad y sector preifat. Adlewyrcha hefyd ei fod yn gweld hynny fel cyfle ac yn buddsoddi. Cydnabu ymrwymiad y Cynulliad i fuddsoddi mewn trafnidiaeth ar y rheilffyrdd a thrafnidiaeth gyhoeddus. Bydd yr Aelodau’n cofio inni gefnogi rheilffordd y Gogledd, a buddsoddwn mewn seilwaith. Teimla’r sector preifat—fel y gwnaf fi—yn optimistaidd ynglŷn â dyfodol rheilffyrdd yng Nghymru.
Minister, do you agree that investment in freight movement from Holyhead by rail, would be a better investment for the people of Anglesey than considering a third crossing over the Menai Straits?
Weinidog, a gytunwch y byddai buddsoddi mewn symud nwyddau o Gaergybi ar y rheilffordd, yn fuddsoddiad gwell i bobl Ynys Môn nag ystyried trydydd croesiad dros y Fenai?
On the first point, I agree that there should be improvement in transporting freight by rail from Holyhead. The freight facilities grant is available to encourage that. We want to get some of the heavy-goods lorries off the road and on to strategic routes. Holyhead, which connects with Ireland, has been underexploited. I have had discussions with the Government of the Republic of Ireland on this. If we can bring about that shift, I think it would give an extra economic rationale to the railways.
O ran y pwynt cyntaf, cytunaf y dylid sicrhau gwelliannau wrth gludo nwyddau ar y rheilffordd o Gaergybi. Mae’r grant cyfleusterau nwyddau ar gael i annog hynny. Yr ydym am gael rhai o’r lorïau nwyddau trwm oddi ar y ffyrdd a’u symud i lwybrau strategol. Ni fanteisiwyd i’r eithaf ar Gaergybi, sy’n cysylltu ag Iwerddon. Cefais drafodaethau gyda Llywodraeth Gweriniaeth Iwerddon ar hyn. Os gallwn weithredu’r newid hwnnw, credaf y byddai’n rhoi rhesymeg economaidd ychwanegol i’r rheilffyrdd.
Ffordd i Faes Awyr Caerdydd
Cardiff Airport Access Road
What plans does the Assembly Government have to make the Cardiff airport access road a trunk road scheme? (OAQ15306)
Pa gynlluniau sydd gan Lywodraeth y Cynulliad i wneud y ffordd i faes awyr Caerdydd yn gynllun cefnffordd? (OAQ15306)
Options for improved access to Cardiff International Airport are being assessed as part of the current study on congestion at Culverhouse Cross. The report will be submitted in March. A review of the trunk road network and consultations on the various options is also happening. The review should be completed later in the year. The report and the trunk road review will help to determine the future status of the Cardiff International Airport access road.
Mae opsiynau i wella’r ffordd i Faes Awyr Rhyngwladol Caerdydd yn cael eu hasesu fel rhan o’r astudiaeth gyfredol ar dagfeydd yng Nghroes Cwrlwys. Cyflwynir yr adroddiad ym mis Mawrth. Cynhelir adolygiad hefyd o’r rhwydwaith cefnffyrdd ac ymgynghoriadau ar yr opsiynau amrywiol. Dylai’r adolygiad gael ei gwblhau yn ddiweddarach eleni. Bydd yr adroddiad a’r adolygiad o’r cefnffyrdd yn helpu i bennu statws y ffordd i Faes Awyr Rhyngwladol Caerdydd yn y dyfodol.
You will be aware of recent reports that suggest that unless the access road problem is solved, Cardiff airport will remain the weakest link in the regional economy. Do you agree with me that unless we have a proper and appropriate access road to Cardiff airport it will have a limited future?
Byddwch yn ymwybodol o’r adroddiadau diweddar sy’n awgrymu mai Caerdydd fydd y cyswllt gwannaf o hyd yn yr economi ranbarthol os na chaiff problem y ffordd i’r maes awyr ei datrys. A gytunwch â mi mai dyfodol cyfyngedig fydd ganddo os na chawn ffordd briodol ac addas i faes awyr Caerdydd?
I have the report’s recommendations here and they do not say that, but it is an easy headline. It says—and it is why we established the working party—that we need an integrated approach. Improved surface access, which can entail a number of ways, is important. The Economic Development Committee discussed yesterday the private investment that we hope we will get in the airport, the spatial planning which I think is critical, and the investment that the Assembly must make. We need to get this issue in perspective. The railway will open next year. It will introduce a link that has not been there before, which is critically important for any major airport. Once the Culverhouse Cross report has been submitted, we will consider options for improving access to the airport.
Mae argymhellion yr adroddiad gennyf yma ac ni ddywedant hynny, ond mae’n bennawd hawdd. Dywed—a dyma pam y sefydlasom y gweithgor—fod angen ymagwedd integredig arnom. Mae gwella arwyneb y ffordd, y gellir ei wneud mewn nifer o ffyrdd, yn bwysig. Trafododd y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd ddoe y buddsoddiad preifat y gobeithiwn ei gael yn y maes awyr, y cynllunio gofodol sydd mor bwysig yn fy marn i, a’r buddsoddiad y mae’n rhaid i’r Cynulliad ei wneud. Mae angen inni roi’r mater hwn mewn persbectif. Bydd y rheilffordd yn agor y flwyddyn nesaf. Bydd yn cyflwyno cyswllt na fu yno o’r blaen, sy’n holl bwysig i unrhyw faes awyr mawr. Cyn gynted ag y caiff adroddiad Croes Cwrlwys ei gyflwyno, byddwn yn ystyried opsiynau ar gyfer gwella’r ffordd i’r maes awyr.
Thousands of Welsh rugby fans will travel to Ireland this weekend from Bristol Airport and the London airports because that is cheaper than flying from Cardiff. Do you agree that the interest of the travelling public would be better served by the airport company attracting cheaper operators, rather than encouraging the destruction of the environment that a new road would cause?
Bydd miloedd o gefnogwyr rygbi Cymru yn teithio i Iwerddon y penwythnos yma o Faes Awyr Bryste a meysydd awyr Llundain gan ei bod yn rhatach na hedfan o Gaerdydd. A gytunwch y byddai’n well i deithwyr pe bai cwmni’r maes awyr yn denu gweithredwyr rhatach, yn hytrach nag annog gwaith a fyddai’n dinistrio’r amgylchedd yn sgîl adeiladu ffordd newydd?
You have raised an interesting point. It is often said that Bristol is a successful airport; the road connections to it are awful. Many people choose to go to Bristol because the tickets are cheap, as you say. We want to attract the kind of traffic that is currently leaking out of Wales, and the business that goes with it. The company running the airport, which was a part of the working party, is keen to attract further investment and business. We must consider how we can get the services that we want at Cardiff International Airport, for the business community and for south Wales residents, who would come to Cardiff if the price was right.
Yr ydych wedi codi pwynt diddorol. Dywedir yn aml bod Bryste yn faes awyr llwyddiannus; mae’r ffyrdd sy’n cysylltu ag ef yn ofnadwy. Mae llawer o bobl yn dewis mynd i Fryste gan fod y tocynnau yn rhad, fel y dywedwch. Yr ydym am ddenu’r math o drafnidiaeth sy’n mynd allan o Gymru ar hyn o bryd, a’r busnes sy’n mynd gyda hi. Mae’r cwmni sy’n rhedeg y maes awyr, a oedd yn rhan o’r gweithgor, yn awyddus i ddenu mwy o fuddsoddiad a busnes. Rhaid inni ystyried sut y gallwn gael y gwasanaethau a ddymunwn ym Maes Awyr Rhyngwladol Caerdydd, i’r gymuned fusnes ac i drigolion de Cymru, a ddeuai i Gaerdydd pe bai’r pris yn ffafriol.
I have lost my way on several occasions while trying to find Bristol airport, so I am pleased to know that it is easy to get there. On Pauline’s point about the cost of trips to Ireland, there are, in fact, regular occasions where you can get flights to Ireland for nothing but the cost of the tax. I do not understand Pauline’s question.
Collais fy ffordd ar sawl achlysur tra’n ceisio dod o hyd i faes awyr Bryste, felly yr wyf yn falch o wybod ei bod yn hawdd ei gyrraedd. O ran pwynt Pauline ynglŷn â chost teithiau i Iwerddon, mae sawl achlysur, mewn gwirionedd, lle y gallwch gael hediadau i Iwerddon am ddim heblaw cost y dreth. Nid wyf yn deall cwestiwn Pauline.
In fairness, there is truth in what you both say—she says as the conceptual politician. There are regular flights between Cardiff and Dublin at a reasonable price. In my discussions with the company running the airport, I have seen that it is critically important, if airports are to survive, that they attract major operators with cheap fares. Following the events of 11 September, we have seen that emphasised, and in fairness to the company, it has acknowledged that it wants to develop that area.
Er tegwch, mae gwirionedd yn yr hyn a ddywed y ddau ohonoch—dywed hi fel y gwleidydd cysyniadol. Mae hediadau rheolaidd rhwng Caerdydd a Dulyn am bris rhesymol. Yn fy nhrafodaethau â’r cwmni sy’n rhedeg y maes awyr, gwelais ei bod yn holl bwysig bod meysydd awyr, os ydynt i lwyddo, yn denu gweithredwyr mawr gyda thocynnau rhad. Yn dilyn digwyddiadau 11 Medi, gwelsom hynny’n cael ei bwysleisio, a gyda thegwch i’r cwmni, cydnabu ei fod am ddatblygu’r maes hwnnw.
Cyllid yr Awdurdod Rheilffyrdd Strategol
Strategic Rail Authority Funding
What action does the Minister intend to take to ensure that more Strategic Rail Authority funding comes to Wales in the future? (OAQ15380)
Beth mae’r Gweinidog yn bwriadu ei wneud i sicrhau bod mwy o gyllid yr Awdurdod Rheilffyrdd Strategol yn cyrraedd Cymru yn y dyfodol? (OAQ15380)
We have discussed some of these matters today, and we debated continuing to bid for rail partnership fund money last week. The Strategic Rail Authority has a sizeable pot of money for competitive bidding.
Yr ydym wedi trafod rhai o’r materion hyn heddiw, ac wedi dadlau dros barhau i wneud cynnig am arian o gronfa partneriaeth y rheilffyrdd yr wythnos diwethaf. Mae gan yr Awdurdod Rheilffyrdd Strategol gryn dipyn o arian ar gyfer gwneud cynigion cystadleuol.
I refer you also to what I said in reply to Owen’s question about the Wales and Borders franchise and underpinning it by public funding, and the additional SRA funding for infrastructure. I also mentioned last week that we need to raise the status of the Great Western line right through to Fishguard.
Fe’ch cyfeiriaf hefyd at yr hyn a ddywedais mewn ateb i gwestiwn Owen ynglŷn â masnachfraint Cymru a’r Gororau a’i hategu gydag arian cyhoeddus, ac arian ychwanegol yr Awdurdod Rheilffyrdd Strategol ar gyfer seilwaith. Soniais hefyd yr wythnos diwethaf fod angen inni godi statws llinell y Great Western yr holl ffordd i Abergwaun.
On improving infrastructure in Wales, do you share the concerns of many of my constituents about Abergavenny railway station? It lacks comprehensive disabled access, it has poor car parking facilities, and needs a link from the town centre bus station.
O ran gwella’r seilwaith yng Nghymru, a rannwch bryderon llawer o’m hetholwyr ynglŷn â gorsaf reilffordd y Fenni? Nid oes ganddi fynediad cynhwysfawr i’r anabl, mae’r cyfleusterau parcio ceir yn wael ac mae angen cysylltiad arni o’r orsaf bysiau ynghanol y dref.
We want to improve integration at all interchange points. The SRA has a programme for station improvements, particularly in response to disability legislation. I cannot tell you whether Abergavenny station is included in that programme, but I will look it up. In our bidding document on the franchise, we looked for strategic bus connections for rural communities particularly, as well as for local bus connections to train stations. If you look at Brecon, which lost its wonderful lines—how I wish they were still going—people who are some distance from a railway station will know that a strategic bus or coach connection will allow them to benefit from the railway system.
Yr ydym am wella integreiddiad ar bob pwynt cyfnewid. Mae gan yr awdurdod raglen ar gyfer gwella gorsafoedd, yn arbennig mewn ymateb i ddeddfwriaeth anabledd. Ni allaf ddweud wrthych a yw gorsaf y Fenni wedi ei chynnwys yn y rhaglen honno, ond fe edrychaf i weld. Yn ein dogfen cais am y fasnachfraint, edrychasom am gysylltiadau bws strategol ar gyfer cymunedau gwledig yn benodol, yn ogystal â chysylltiadau bws lleol i orsafoedd trenau. Os edrychwch ar Aberhonddu, a gollodd ei rheilffyrdd gwych—pe baent ond yn bodoli o hyd—bydd pobl sy’n byw beth pellter oddi wrth orsaf reilffordd yn gwybod y bydd cysylltiadau bws strategol yn eu galluogi i elwa ar y system reilffyrdd.
Minister, do you agree that, realistically, if we want to improve railway stations such as Abergavenny, we must ensure that money continues to come in from the private sector? Do you believe that the Government’s handling of the Railtrack re-nationalisation, and its current support for militant trade unionism will actually make private sector investment more likely? [Laughter.]
Weinidog, a gytunwch fod yn rhaid inni, yn realistig, os ydym am wella gorsafoedd rheilffyrdd fel y Fenni, sicrhau bod yr arian yn parhau i ddod o’r sector preifat? A gredwch y bydd y modd y deliodd y Llywodraeth ag ailwladoli Railtrack, a’i chefnogaeth bresennol i undebaeth lafur filwriaethus yn gwneud buddsoddiad yn y preifat sector yn fwy tebygol? [Chwerthin.]
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 25
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25
Order. This question is not about trade unions, militant or otherwise.
Trefn. Nid cwestiwn am undebau llafur, milwriaethus neu fel arall yw hwn.
That was a little diversion, David. On private investment, I return to my comments on the Wales and Borders franchise. Abergavenny station will be part of that franchise. I hope that with the interest that we have seen, and through working with the local authority, we will get such improvements. We need to show in the local transport plans—I am sure that Monmouthshire County Council has done it, as have other local authorities—that train stations are no longer places where people are scared of going, or which are seen as marginal to the community. We must reverse that perception so that stations become a focus for communities. They get that right in places like Germany. Stations there are nice places to be, and not places where you wonder whether or not you should be there. That is why we need to get transport connections, as well as some life and activity at the stations. Cafés and taxi services, or whatever, would change the nature of the stations.
Ychydig o ddifyrrwch oedd hynny, David. O ran buddsoddiad preifat, dychwelaf at fy sylwadau ar fasnachfraint Cymru a’r Gororau. Bydd gorsaf y Fenni yn rhan o’r fasnachfraint honno. Gobeithio y gwelwn, gyda’r diddordeb a welsom, a thrwy gydweithio â’r awdurdod lleol, welliannau o’r fath. Mae angen inni ddangos yn y cynlluniau trafnidiaeth lleol—yr wyf yn siŵr y gwnaeth Cyngor Sir Fynwy hynny, fel y gwnaeth awdurdodau eraill—nad yw gorsafoedd trenau yn fannau yr ofna pobl fynd iddynt, neu a ystyrir yn ymylol i’r gymuned. Rhaid inni wrthdroi’r amgyffred hwnnw fel mai canolbwynt cymunedau yw gorsafoedd. Mae’r Almaen yn llwyddo yn hynny o beth. Mae’r gorsafoedd yno yn fannau braf i fod ynddynt, ac nid yn fannau lle y tybiwch a ddylech fod yno ai peidio. Dyna pam mae angen inni gael cysylltiadau trafnidiaeth, yn ogystal â rhywfaint o fywyd a gweithgaredd yn y gorsafoedd. Byddai caffis a gwasanaethau tacsis, neu beth bynnag, yn newid natur y gorsafoedd.
I welcome all your hard work on behalf of the long-suffering north Wales rail users. What are the implications of the SRA funding for upgrading the north Wales coast line, for instance, and the north-south link, to better serve my north Wales constituents, and make them feel closer to the Assembly?
Croesawaf eich holl waith caled ar ran defnyddwyr hirymaros rheilffyrdd y Gogledd. Beth yw goblygiadau arian yr awdurdod ar gyfer uwchraddio llinell arfordir y gogledd, er enghraifft, a’r cyswllt o’r Gogledd i’r De, i wasanaethu fy etholwyr yn y Gogledd yn well, a gwneud iddynt deimlo’n agosach at y Cynulliad?
We need to do that in a series of ways for north, south and mid Wales, to ensure that people feel included. We must also recognise—as does the Strategic Rail Authority—that many journeys from north Wales cross the border. We must get the balance right. I have travelled to north Wales on the train, and it is important to improve the service.
Mae angen inni wneud hynny mewn sawl ffordd ar gyfer y Gogledd, y De a’r Canolbarth, er mwyn sicrhau bod pobl yn teimlo eu bod wedi eu cynnwys. Rhaid inni gydnabod hefyd—fel y mae’r Awdurdod Rheilffyrdd Strategol—bod sawl taith o’r Gogledd yn croesi’r ffin. Rhaid inni gael y cydbwysedd yn gywir. Yr wyf wedi teithio i’r Gogledd ar y trên, ac mae gwella’r gwasanaeth yn bwysig.
I accept your point about line speed improvements; that has been delivered. The Voyager train is coming next year and it will provide services to London. I am particularly concerned about the quality of the stations in north Wales, and I will be considering that matter in more detail. Stations are important connection points, and people should feel comfortable while they wait for trains.
Derbyniaf eich pwynt ynglŷn â gwella cyflymder y rheilffyrdd; cyflawnwyd hynny. Bydd y trên Voyager yn dod y flwyddyn nesaf, a bydd yn darparu gwasanaethau i Lundain. Pryderaf yn benodol ynglŷn ag ansawdd y gorsafoedd yn y Gogledd, a byddaf yn ystyried y mater hwnnw yn fanylach. Mae gorsafoedd yn bwyntiau cyswllt pwysig, a dylai pobl deimlo’n gysurus wrth aros am drenau.
Ail Gartrefi
Second Homes
What progress is being made on the Minister’s study into second homes in rural and other communities? (OAQ15341)
Pa gynnydd sy’n cael ei wneud ar astudiaeth y Gweinidog i ail gartrefi mewn ardaloedd gwledig a chymunedau eraill? (OAQ15341)
The research to examine the land use implications of second and holiday homes in rural areas is due to be completed next month. The representative steering group meets in February to discuss the final draft report. The results of the research will inform the development of planning policy and will be disseminated at seminars to be arranged in the spring, to which Assembly Members will be invited.
Disgwylir i’r ymchwil i ystyried goblygiadau defnyddio tir o ran ail gartrefi a thai haf yng nghefn gwlad gael ei chwblhau y mis nesaf. Bydd y grŵp llywio cynrychioliadol yn cyfarfod ym mis Chwefror i drafod yr adroddiad drafft terfynol. Bydd canlyniadau’r ymchwil yn sail i’r gwaith o ddatblygu polisi cynllunio a chânt eu dosbarthu mewn seminarau a drefnir yn y gwanwyn, y gwahoddir Aelodau’r Cynulliad iddynt.
How does the recent decision by Pembrokeshire County Council and Pembrokeshire Coast National Park impact upon your study, and what discussions took place with the National Assembly before that decision was made?
Sut mae’r penderfyniad diweddar gan Gyngor Sir Penfro a Pharc Cenedlaethol Arfordir Penfro yn effeithio ar eich astudiaeth, a pha drafodaethau a fu gyda’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol cyn i’r penderfyniad hwnnw gael ei wneud?
I do not know if any officers held discussions. I did not hold a discussion with Pembrokeshire County Council. It is able to take that decision without consulting me in the progress of the unitary development plan. Once the research is published—and it will not be long—it will help with policy consultation, and will ensure that we all have a better understanding of the facts.
Ni wn a gynhaliwyd unrhyw drafodaethau gan swyddogion. Ni chynhaliais i drafodaeth gyda Chyngor Sir Penfro. Gall gymryd y penderfyniad hwnnw heb ymgynghori â mi wrth weithredu’r cynllun datblygu unedol. Ar ôl cyhoeddi’r ymchwil—ac ni fydd yn hir—bydd o gymorth i ymgynghori ar bolisi a bydd yn sicrhau bod pawb yn deall y ffeithiau yn well.
Diolch am y sylw ar Barc Cenedlaethol Arfordir Penfro. A gytuna’r Gweinidog mai’r mater pwysicaf ar gyfer Sir Benfro, a lleoedd eraill, yw gallu pobl leol i sicrhau cartrefi yn eu hardaloedd? Byddai cyfyngu ar ail gartrefi mewn lle fel Trefdraeth, sydd â chyfartaledd uchel o ail gartrefi, yn galluogi pobl leol i gystadlu ar y farchnad dai, a gallai landlordiaid cofrestredig cymdeithasol brynu tai, eu hadnewyddu a’u gosod i bobl leol. Onid yw’r gallu i gyfyngu ar gyfartaledd y tai gwyliau mewn ardal yn bwysig, ac oni ddylem bwyso am hynny?
Thank you for the comment on Pembrokeshire Coast National Park. Does the Minister agree that the most important issue for Pembrokeshire, and other areas, is the ability of local people to obtain homes in their areas? Limiting the number of second homes in a place such as Newport, Pembrokeshire, which has a high proportion of second homes, would enable local people to compete in the housing market, and would enable registered social landlords to buy houses, renovate them and let them to local people. Is not the ability to limit the proportion of holiday homes in an area important, and should we not press for that?
On the last point, I cannot pre-empt the research. Once it is there, we can all consider it and see what results from it. To reassure people, the steering group is composed of a range of representatives from bodies such as national parks, and from the communities most affected by the research. Across the board in Wales, affordability of housing is a big issue, particularly for young people. It is a big issue in Cardiff. Many Assembly Members probably have second homes in Cardiff bay. It is a heightened issue in some communities with pressure as a result of second homes. We share your concern that local people, wherever they live in Wales, and particularly young people, should be able to access good-quality homes. I hope that this research will help us find a way through.
Ar y pwynt olaf, ni allaf ragdybio’r ymchwil. Pan fydd yn barod, gall pawb ei hystyried a gweld beth sy’n deillio ohoni. Er mwyn lleddfu ofnau pobl, mae’r grŵp llywio yn cynnwys ystod o gynrychiolwyr o gyrff fel parciau cenedlaethol, ac o’r cymunedau y mae’r ymchwil yn effeithio fwyaf arnynt. Yn gyffredinol yng Nghymru, mae gallu fforddio tai yn fater o bwys, yn arbennig felly i bobl ifanc. Mae’n fater o bwys yng Nghaerdydd. Efallai fod gan lawer o Aelodau’r Cynulliad ail gartrefi ym mae Caerdydd. Mae’n fater amlycaf mewn rhai cymunedau oherwydd pwysau ail gartrefi. Rhannwn eich pryder y dylai pobl leol, lle bynnag y maent yn byw yng Nghymru, ac yn arbennig pobl ifanc, fod yn gallu cael gafael ar dai o ansawdd da. Gobeithiaf y bydd yr ymchwil honno yn ein helpu i ganfod ffordd ymlaen.
Will you join me in encouraging Pembrokeshire Coast National Park Authority to examine this report closely when it is published? While there is an issue about affordability of local housing, we must also ensure that local jobs are available for young people. We need to ensure that we are not going to kill a free housing market, because that is essential for vibrant economic activity. It is not quite as simple as some suggest.
A ymunwch â mi i annog Awdurdod Parc Cenedlaethol Arfordir Penfro i archwilio’r adroddiad hwn yn ofalus pan gaiff ei gyhoeddi? Wrth sôn am broblem fforddiadwyedd tai lleol, rhaid inni sicrhau hefyd bod swyddi lleol ar gael i bobl ifanc. Mae angen inni sicrhau na ddinistriwn farchnad dai rydd, oherwydd bod hynny’n hanfodol ar gyfer gweithgaredd economaidd byw. Nid yw mor syml ag y mae rhai pobl yn ei awgrymu.
It is complicated, as you say. Any restrictions on markets will heighten the value of properties. If we want to keep local communities alive, we need an integrated policy, which is about education and job opportunities. People in rural areas now expect a quality of life and facilities that perhaps they did not expect 100 years ago. It is a complex issue, and that is how we must deal with it.
Mae’n gymhleth, fel y dywedwch. Bydd unrhyw gyfyngiadau ar farchnadoedd yn codi gwerth eiddo. Os ydym am gadw cymunedau lleol yn fyw, mae angen polisi integredig arnom, sydd a wnelo ag addysg a chyfleoedd am swyddi. Mae pobl mewn ardaloedd gwledig heddiw yn disgwyl ansawdd bywyd a chyfleusterau nad oeddent yn eu disgwyl o bosibl 100 mlynedd yn ôl. Mae’n fater cymhleth, a dyna sut y mae’n rhaid inni ddelio ag ef.
Datganiad ar ‘Gynllunio: Cyflawni dros Gymru’
Statement on ‘Planning: Delivering for Wales’
Sue Essex The Minister for Environment spoken in English p. 28
Sue Essex Y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 28
I apologise to Members for their having a double dose of me this morning. I would be delighted to answer questions or comments following the statement.
Ymddiheuraf i’r Aelodau am orfod gwrando arnaf ddwywaith y bore yma. Byddwn yn falch o ateb cwestiynau neu sylwadau yn sgîl y datganiad.
I am delighted to announce the issue of ‘Planning: Delivering for Wales’, which will be available on the internet from tomorrow and will be printed next week. It sets out proposals to change the planning system in Wales. It will start the process of delivering a positive tool for economic regeneration and the management of change. It will be a transparent process, which gives everyone a chance to participate and debate the future of their communities, and there will be an emphasis on quality decisions to create and maintain attractive and sustainable places.
Mae’n bleser gennyf gyhoeddi ‘Cynllunio: Cyflawni dros Gymru’, a fydd ar gael ar y rhyngrwyd o yfory ymlaen ac a argreffir yr wythnos nesaf. Mae’n cyflwyno cynigion i newid y system gynllunio yng Nghymru. Bydd yn cychwyn proses o ddarparu cyfrwng adeiladol i adfywio economaidd a rheoli newid. Bydd yn broses dryloyw a rydd gyfle i bawb gymryd rhan a thrafod dyfodol eu cymunedau, a bydd pwyslais ar benderfyniadau o ansawdd i greu a chynnal lleoedd deniadol a chynaliadwy.
In early December I issued a statement that I was undertaking a review of the planning system for Wales. On 19 December I chaired a meeting of the Welsh planning forum at which over 30 representatives of business, and the public and voluntary sectors discussed the issues and our initial thoughts on how we could improve the system. The results of the discussion have been used to prepare the consultation document that will be published tomorrow.
Ar ddechrau Rhagfyr, cyhoeddais ddatganiad yn nodi fy mod yn cynnal adolygiad o’r system gynllunio i Gymru. Ar 19 Rhagfyr cadeiriais gyfarfod o fforwm cynllunio Cymru lle y trafododd mwy na 30 o gynrychiolwyr busnesau a’r sectorau cyhoeddus a gwirfoddol y materion a’n syniadau cychwynnol ar sut y gellid gwella’r system. Defnyddiwyd canlyniadau’r drafodaeth i baratoi’r ddogfen ymgynghorol a gyhoeddir yfory.
We share the basic structure of the planning system with England. The system has its roots in the same primary and secondary legislation. Last December, Stephen Byers published a Green Paper entitled ‘Planning: Delivering a Fundamental Change’. His proposals address concerns expressed by businesses and communities about the planning system in England, and are designed to improve the preparation of development plans and the development control service offered by local planning authorities there. Some of the proposals are equally relevant to Wales, but we are evolving our own policy to meet Welsh requirements and so we need a different approach.
Rhannwn strwythur sylfaenol y system gynllunio â Lloegr. Mae gwreiddiau’r system yn yr un ddeddfwriaeth sylfaenol a’r is-ddeddfwriaeth. Fis Rhagfyr diwethaf, cyhoeddodd Stephen Byers Bapur Gwyrdd o’r enw ‘Planning: Delivering a Fundamental Change’. Mae ei gynigion yn ymdrin â phryderon a fynegwyd gan fusnesau a chymunedau ynglŷn â’r system gynllunio yn Lloegr, a’u bwriad yw gwella’r gwaith o baratoi cynlluniau datblygu a’r gwasanaeth rheoli datblygiad a gynigir gan yr awdurdodau cynllunio lleol yno. Mae rhai o’r cynigion yr un mor berthnasol i Gymru, ond yr ydym yn datblygu ein polisi ein hunain i fodloni gofynion Cymru ac felly mae angen ymagwedd wahanol arnom.
This approach derives from the fact that we in Wales have an elected Assembly with duties to promote sustainable development, to support the Welsh language, and to develop and implement policy on a wide range of issues affecting Wales. We are working with our partners to deliver the sort of changes that we need to help meet the Welsh Assembly Government’s economic, social and environmental objectives, in line with our ‘Plan for Wales 2001’. I assure you that this consultation does not involve any changes to our emerging planning policy, as contained in ‘Planning Policy Wales’, which is discussed in more detail in the written copy of this statement, which you have received.
Mae’r ymagwedd hon yn deillio o’r ffaith ein bod ni yng Nghymru wedi ethol Cynulliad â dyletswyddau i hyrwyddo datblygu cynaliadwy, i gefnogi’r iaith Gymraeg, ac i ddatblygu a gweithredu polisi ar ystod eang o faterion sy’n effeithio ar Gymru. Gweithiwn gyda’n partneriaid i gyflawni’r math o newidiadau sydd eu hangen arnom i helpu i fodloni amcanion economaidd, cymdeithasol ac amgylcheddol Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru, yn unol â’n ‘Cynllun i Gymru 2001’. Hoffwn eich sicrhau nad yw’r ymgynghori hwn yn golygu’r un newid i’n polisi cynllunio sy’n datblygu, fel y’i cynhwysir yn ‘Polisi Cynllunio Cymru’, ac a drafodir yn fanylach yn fersiwn ysgrifenedig y datganiad hwn, y mae gennych gopi ohono.
The Assembly has devolved responsibility for setting the national policy context and making regulations to govern how the system operates, but the 25 local planning authorities—22 unitary authorities and three national parks—have the major responsibility for delivering the majority of the planning system in Wales. In Wales, we have the advantage that they form a single tier, delivering development plans and development control.
Mae’r Cynulliad wedi datganoli cyfrifoldeb dros osod y cyd-destun polisi cenedlaethol a gwneud rheoliadau i lywodraethu’r modd y gweithreda’r system, ond y 25 o awdurdodau cynllunio lleol—22 o awdurdodau unedol a thri pharc cenedlaethol—sydd â’r cyfrifoldeb mawr o gyflawni’r rhan fwyaf o’r system gynllunio yng Nghymru. Yng Nghymru, mae’r fantais gennym eu bod yn ffurfio un haen, sy’n darparu cynlluniau datblygu a rheoli datblygiad.
At the outset, I emphasise that I do not intend to seek increased involvement in the day to day working of the planning system. I want to continue to work in partnership with colleagues in local planning authorities to ensure that planning is operating effectively and well. However, we must be prepared to continue to intervene if issues of more than local importance arise. I want to capitalise on the undoubted strengths of the planning system in Wales, to retain what is best, but to change what is not working well enough. A balance must be struck between the pace of delivery and ensuring that people’s views, interests and other material factors are taken into account. We must get the procedures right, and we must incorporate involvement at the right stage of the process to ensure well-informed decision-making.
O’r cychwyn cyntaf, pwysleisais na fwriadaf geisio ymwneud mwy â gwaith dyddiol y system gynllunio. Yr wyf am barhau i weithio mewn partneriaeth â’m cydweithwyr yn yr awdurdodau cynllunio lleol i sicrhau bod y gwaith cynllunio yn cael ei weithredu’n effeithiol ac yn dda. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni fod yn barod i barhau i ymyrryd os bydd materion sy’n fwy na mater lleol yn unig yn codi. Yr wyf am fanteisio ar gryfderau diamau’r system gynllunio yng Nghymru, i gadw’r hyn sydd orau, ond i newid yr hyn nad yw’n gweithio’n ddigon da. Rhaid taro cydbwysedd rhwng cyflymder y cyflawni a sicrhau y caiff barn a diddordebau pobl a ffactorau perthnasol eraill eu hystyried. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod y gweithdrefnau’n gywir, a rhaid inni ymgorffori y rhan a chwaraewn ar yr adeg iawn yn y broes er mwyn sicrhau y gwneir penderfyniadau hyddysg.
The objectives of this document, on which we have reached general agreement with the planning forum, are: to be open, fair and transparent; to inspire public and business confidence; to deliver improved quality and speed of decisions; to integrate with other plans, processes and actions; and to meet our objectives in ‘Plan for Wales 2001’.
Amcanion y ddogfen hon, yr ydym wedi dod i gytundeb cyffredinol arni gyda’r fforwm cynllunio yw: bod yn agored, teg a thryloyw; ysbrydoli hyder y cyhoedd a busnes; cyflawni penderfyniadau o ansawdd gwell ac yn gyflymach; integreiddio â chynlluniau, prosesau a gweithrediadau eraill; a bodloni ein hamcanion yn y ‘Cynllun i Gymru 2001’.
I will run through the rest of the statement quickly, as it is quite lengthy. There are three key elements to the document. First, in terms of national planning policy, ‘Planning Policy Wales’ will provide clearer, more focused guidance for development plans and decisions in Wales. Secondly, on development plans, we are fully committed to retaining a single tier system of development plans, which are currently called unitary development plans. These are prepared by the 25 local planning authorities, and give certainty to the community and developers. Thirdly, on decision making and development control, planning decisions must continue to be based on up-to-date development plans. This will enable councils to take consistent and well-informed decisions. They must improve certainty, consistency, clarity and speed; modernise the system; improve access and consultation; and improve skills and awareness.
Af drwy weddill y datganiad yn gyflym, gan ei fod yn eithaf hir. Mae tair elfen allweddol i’r ddogfen. Yn gyntaf, o ran polisi cynllunio cenedlaethol, bydd ‘Polisi Cynllunio Cymru’, yn darparu canllawiau cliriach, mwy penodedig ar gyfer cynlluniau a phenderfyniadau datblygu yng Nghymru. Yn ail, o ran cynlluniau datblygu, yr ydym yn llwyr ymrwymedig i gadw system un haen o gynlluniau datblygu, a elwir yn gynlluniau datblygu unedol ar hyn o bryd. Fe’u paratoir gan y 25 o awdurdodau cynllunio lleol, a rhoddant sicrwydd i’r gymuned ac i ddatblygwyr. Yn drydydd, o ran gwneud penderfyniadau a rheoli datblygiadau, rhaid i benderfyniadau cynllunio barhau i fod yn seiliedig ar y cynlluniau datblygu diweddaraf. Bydd hyn yn galluogi cynghorau i wneud penderfyniadau cyson a hyddysg. Rhaid iddynt wella sicrwydd, cysondeb, eglurer a chyflymder; moderneiddio’r system; gwella mynediad ac ymgynghori; a gwella sgiliau ac ymwybyddiaeth.
There are several proposals in the document. Modernising the planning system could involve reviewing the use classes order, and considering whether to amend permitted development rights. There is also a need to update policies on planning obligations. We will consider carefully the resources that need to be available. We will also need to consider future legislation, as there are possible implications for primary and secondary legislation. Further work needs to be done.
Mae sawl cynnig yn y ddogfen. Gallai moderneiddio’r system gynllunio olygu adolygu’r drefn categoreiddio defnydd, ac ystyried a ddylid diwygio hawliau datblygu a ganiateir. Mae angen diweddaru polisïau hefyd ar rwymedigaethau cynllunio. Byddwn yn rhoi ystyriaeth ofalus i’r adnoddau y mae eu hangen. Bydd angen inni hefyd ystyried deddfwriaeth y dyfodol, gan fod goblygiadau posibl i ddeddfwriaeth sylfaenol ac is-ddeddfwriaeth. Mae angen gwneud rhagor o waith.
This is a consultation document. The consultation process will close on 29 April. I will discuss its results with the Environment, Planning and Transport Committee, and I look forward to hearing Members’ views.
Mae hon yn ddogfen ymgynghori. Bydd y broses ymgynghori yn dod i ben ar 29 Ebrill. Trafodaf ei chanlyniadau gyda Phwyllgor yr Amgylchedd, Cynllunio a Thrafnidiaeth, ac edrychaf ymlaen at glywed barn yr Aelodau.
Finally, I thank the staff. A small team has put a considerable amount of effort into this. I will mention one name in particular, Heledd Thomas, a junior member of staff who has only recently joined us. I am pleased to say that she was one of my former students. She has worked hard on this and has provided the translation herself in order to meet the deadline. I publicly acknowledge her important contribution.
I gloi, diolch i’r staff. Gwnaeth tîm bychan ymdrech fawr o ran hyn. Soniaf am un enw yn arbennig, Heledd Thomas, aelod iau o’r staff a ymunodd â ni yn ddiweddar. Yr wyf yn falch o ddweud ei bod yn un o’m cyn-fyfyrwyr. Mae wedi gweithio’n galed ar hyn ac wedi darparu’r cyfieithiad ei hun er mwyn cwblhau’r gwaith o fewn y dyddiad cau. Cydnabyddaf yn gyhoeddus ei chyfraniad pwysig.
I welcome this consultation and thank you, Minister, for ensuring that a summary of the consultation document was available to Members yesterday, which has enabled us to frame our questions more effectively. I am sure that we all agree with your comments about the planning system’s importance to the economic and cultural development of Wales. I am sure that you would agree that the role of the planning system is to balance competing priorities and rights in the long-term interest of communities.
Croesawaf yr ymgynghoriad hwn a diolch ichi, Weinidog, am sicrhau bod crynodeb o’r ddogfen ymgynghori ar gael i’r Aelodau ddoe, a’n galluogodd i lunio ein cwestiynau yn fwy effeithiol. Yr wyf yn siŵr y cytuna pawb â’ch sylwadau am bwysigrwydd y system gynllunio i ddatblygu economaidd a diwylliannol Cymru. Yr wyf yn siŵr y cytunech hefyd mai rôl y system gynllunio yw cydbwyso blaenoriaethau a hawliau sy’n cystadlu â’i gilydd er budd cymunedau yn yr hirdymor.
I have some issues to raise about the consultation. Will you ensure that the new national planning policy enables development to be redirected away from hot-spots—those which have, arguably, been over-developed in the past—towards less developed areas? I am thinking particularly in terms of economic development. In terms of the Westminster Government’s Green Paper, will you press your colleagues in Westminster to consider amending primary legislation so that those objecting to developments have the right to appeal against decisions in favour of development? That would be a vital step towards balance in a system that, at present, can be seen as containing too strong a presumption in favour of development, which can have a negative impact on our responsibility for sustainable development in Wales.
Mae gennyf rai materion i’w codi ynglŷn â’r ymgynghori. A sicrhewch fod y polisi cynllunio cenedlaethol newydd yn ei gwneud yn bosibl i ddatblygiad gael ei ailgyfeirio oddi wrth fannau poblogaidd—y rhai, gellir dadlau, a gafodd eu gorddatblygu yn y gorffennol—tuag at ardaloedd llai datblygedig? Meddyliaf yn benodol am ddatblygu economaidd. O ran Papur Gwyrdd Llywodraeth San Steffan, a bwyswch ar eich cyd-aelodau yn San Steffan i ystyried diwygio deddfwriaeth sylfaenol fel bod gan y sawl sy’n gwrthwynebu datblygiadau yr hawl i apelio yn erbyn penderfyniadau o blaid datblygu? Byddai hynny’n gam holl bwysig tuag at gydbwysedd mewn system y gellir ei hystyried ar hyn o bryd yn un sy’n cynnwys rhagdybiaeth rhy gryf o blaid datblygu, a all gael effaith negyddol ar ein cyfrifoldeb dros ddatblygu cynaliadwy yng Nghymru.
In the new policy, will you ensure that the greater speed of decision-making, which you rightly highlight as a priority, is not achieved at the expense of proper scrutiny and consultation? Will you take the opportunity provided by this consultation to reconsider planning policy for rural areas to ensure that appropriate sustainable economic development is not unnecessarily restricted, particularly for landscape considerations alone?
Yn y polisi newydd, a sicrhewch na chaiff y modd y gwneir penderfyniadau yn gynt, a amlygir gennych yn gywir fel blaenoriaeth, ei gyflawni ar draul craffu ac ymgynghori cywir? A fanteisiwch ar y cyfle y mae’r ymgynghoriad hwn yn ei roi i ailystyried polisi cynllunio ar gyfer ardaloedd gwledig er mwyn sicrhau na chyfyngir ar ddatblygu economaidd cynaliadwy priodol yn ddiangen, yn arbennig oherwydd ystyriaethau tirwedd yn unig?
I welcome your commitment to discuss the consultation’s outcomes with the Committee. However, given the great importance of these matters, will you also ask the Minister for Assembly Business to schedule a full debate to enable all Members to consider this matter further once the consultation process is complete?
Croesawaf eich ymrwymiad i drafod canlyniadau’r ymgynghoriad â’r Pwyllgor. Fodd bynnag, o gofio pa mor bwysig yw’r materion hyn, a ofynnwch hefyd i’r Trefnydd amserlennu dadl lawn i alluogi pob Aelod i ystyried y mater hwn pan ddaw’r broses ymgynghori i ben?
You raised several issues there; I will work through them. The issue of hot-spots and spreading development around is contained in ‘Plan for Wales 2001’, and the planning system exists to support that. The regional element of the Wales spatial plan also covers that issue. We must, as you rightly said, ensure that certain places do not overheat while others, which desperately require development, lose out.
Codwyd sawl mater gennych; af drwyddynt. Ymdrinnir â phroblem mannau poblogaidd a lledaenu datblygiad yn ‘Cynllun i Gymru 2001’ a bodola’r system gynllunio i ategu hynny. Mae elfen ranbarthol cynllun gofodol Cymru yn cwmpasu’r mater hwnnw hefyd. Rhaid inni, fel y dywedasoch yn gywir, sicrhau na chaiff rhai lleoedd eu gorboblogi tra bod eraill, y mae angen eu datblygu’n ddirfawr, ar eu colled.
Your second point about amending the legislation on third-party rights raises a difficult issue. I have not said that I will do that. However, this is a consultation document and we must consider people’s views. I have agonised over this for many years, as I have faced situations where communities felt that their voices were not being heard.
Mae eich ail bwynt ynglŷn â diwygio’r ddeddfwriaeth ar hawliau trydedd carfan yn codi mater anodd. Ni ddywedais y byddwn yn gwneud hynny. Fodd bynnag, mae hon yn ddogfen ymgynghori a rhaid inni ystyried barn pobl. Yr wyf wedi ymboeni ynghylch hyn ers sawl blwyddyn, gan fy mod wedi wynebu sefyllfaoedd lle y teimlai cymunedau nad oedd eu lleisiau yn cael eu clywed.
I stress two issues contained in the document. First, we want a system where the development plan is of primary importance. That sets out the way forward and is open to complete consultation, scrutiny and, in many cases, an inquiry or hearing. It is the basis on which planning decisions are made. The second point relates to how planning applications are dealt with. We need a code with Welsh local government on how consultation is undertaken. The document contains suggestions on that, so that people can get the information that they require and make their voices heard before any decision is made.
Pwysleisiaf ddau fater a gynhwysir yn y ddogfen. Yn gyntaf, yr ydym am gael system lle y rhoddir y pwys pennaf ar y cynllun datblygu. Mae hwnnw’n disgrifio’r ffordd ymlaen ac mae’n agored i ymgynghori llwyr, craffu ac mewn sawl achos, ymchwiliad neu wrandawiad. Dyna’r sail y gwneir y penderfyniadau cynllunio arni. Mae a wnelo’r ail bwynt â’r modd yr ymdrinnir â cheisiadau cynllunio. Mae angen cod gyda llywodraeth leol Cymru ar sut i gynnal ymgynghoriadau. Mae’r ddogfen yn cynnwys awgrymiadau ar hynny, fel y gall pobl gael y wybodaeth sydd ei hangen arnynt a sicrhau y clywir eu lleisiau cyn i benderfyniad gael ei wneud.
On a presumption in favour of development, if you look at ‘Planning Policy Wales’, which came before the Committee, you will see that the presumption there is in favour of sustainable development. Therefore, we have a different presumption in Wales.
O ran rhagdybiaeth o blaid datblygu, os edrychwch ar ‘Polisi Cynllunio Cymru’, a ddaeth gerbron y Pwyllgor, fe welwch fod y dybiaeth yno o blaid datblygu cynaliadwy. Felly mae gennym ragdybiaeth wahanol yng Nghymru.
On the speed of decision-making, as I have said, people want certainty about when decisions will be made. That is why we have suggested quality contracts, which can be arranged when people submit applications. However, we must also ensure that the process allows for people’s voices to be heard. We are considering a different way of managing the development control applications through to a decision, so that everyone feels that their voices have been heard and there is certainty in the system.
O ran cyflymder gwneud penderfyniadau, fel y dywedais, mae pobl am gael sicrwydd ynglŷn â phryd y gwneir penderfyniadau. Dyna pam yr awgrymasom gontractau o ansawdd, y gellir eu trefnu pan fydd pobl yn cyflwyno ceisiadau. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni sicrhau hefyd bod y broses yn caniatáu i leisiau pobl gael eu clywed. Yr ydym yn ystyried ffordd wahanol o reoli’r ceisiadau rheoli datblygiad drwy benderfyniad, fel bod pawb yn teimlo bod eu lleisiau wedi eu clywed a bod sicrwydd yn y system.
Planning policy in rural areas is part of ‘Planning Policy Wales’. I flinch when I hear things like ‘not just landscape considerations’. We have learnt that landscape is important to the Welsh economy, as well as in its own right. Therefore we must be careful about the language we use.
Mae polisi cynllunio mewn ardaloedd gwledig yn rhan o ‘Polisi Cynllunio Cymru’. Gwingaf pan glywaf bethau fel ‘nid ystyriaethau tirwedd yn unig’. Yr ydym wedi dysgu bod y dirwedd yn bwysig i economi Cymru, yn ogystal ag yn ei rhinwedd ei hun. Felly rhaid inni fod yn ofalus ynglŷn â’r iaith a ddefnyddiwn.
In terms of a full debate on this, I do not mind. I tend to think that the best way of handling the details is in Committee, because this will be a substantial document. I will hold that in abeyance and see how far we get in Committee and whether we can reach a consensus.
O ran dadl lawn ar hyn, nid oes wahaniaeth gennyf. Tueddaf i feddwl mai’r ffordd orau o ymdrin â’r manylion yw mewn Pwyllgor, oherwydd bydd hon yn ddogfen sylweddol. Ni phenderfynaf ar hynny eto a gwelaf pa mor bell yr awn mewn Pwyllgor ac a allwn ddod i gonsensws.
I welcome this statement. Most of us would agree that the planning system mostly works well and that most applications are dealt with promptly. However, there are a few high-profile applications, usually controversial, which attract the sort of media attention that can bring the process into disrepute. I therefore welcome the idea of producing a simpler, better understood system. Most of the applications that cause difficulties are related to industrial and commercial development and, of necessity, involve health, environmental and transport considerations. Will you give an assurance that you will, in consideration of those important aspects of planning, ensure that the agencies responsible for contributing to the process do so promptly and transparently? The agencies have been criticised because their information is not readily available for public scrutiny. It is important, if we are to have an open and transparent system in which the public has confidence, that information be readily available.
Croesawaf y datganiad hwn. Byddai’r rhan fwyaf ohonom yn cytuno bod y system gynllunio yn gweithio’n dda ar y cyfan ac yr ymdrinnir â’r rhan fwyaf o geisiadau yn ddi-oed. Fodd bynnag, mae rhai ceisiadau proffil uchel, dadleuol fel arfer, sy’n denu’r math o sylw yn y cyfryngau a all roi enw gwael i’r broses. Felly croesawaf y syniad o gynhyrchu system symlach a ddeellir yn well. Mae’r rhan fwyaf o’r ceisiadau sy’n achosi anawsterau yn gysylltiedig â datblygu diwydiannol a masnachol ac, o reidrwydd, yn cynnwys ystyriaethau iechyd, amgylcheddol a thrafnidiaeth. A roddwch sicrwydd y byddwch, wrth ystyried yr agweddau pwysig hynny ar gynllunio, yn sicrhau bod yr asiantaethau sy’n gyfrifol am gyfrannu at y broses yn gwneud hynny’n ddi-oed a thryloyw? Beirniadwyd yr asiantaethau gan nad yw eu gwybodaeth ar gael yn hawdd i’r cyhoedd graffu arni. Mae’n bwysig, er mwyn inni gael system agored a thryloyw y mae gan y cyhoedd hyder ynddi, fod y wybodaeth honno ar gael yn hawdd.
It is important that we increase public confidence in the process. We must also deal with the dubious delaying tactics employed by those determined to wreck proposals, which result in long-winded and delayed consideration of important applications. Whatever the result, communities often face a traumatic, uncertain time while awaiting decisions on long-outstanding applications. It is essential that we short-circuit the system, while giving people every opportunity to make valid contributions and to express concern about proposals. We must ensure that there is confidence in the system and that decisions are made promptly.
Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn cynyddu hyder y cyhoedd yn y broses. Rhaid inni ddelio hefyd â’r tactegau oedi amheus a ddefnyddir gan y sawl sy’n benderfynol o ddifetha cynigion, sy’n arwain at ystyriaeth hirwyntog a gohiriedig o geisiadau pwysig. Beth bynnag fo’r canlyniad, wyneba cymunedau yn aml gyfnod trawmatig, ansicr wrth aros am benderfyniadau ar geisiadau y bu hir ddisgwyl amdanynt. Mae’n hanfodol ein bod yn byrhau’r system, tra’n rhoi pob cyfle i bobl wneud cyfraniadau dilys a mynegi pryder ynglŷn â chynigion. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod hyder yn y system ac y gwneir penderfyniadau yn ddi-oed.
Will you also consider the issue of speculative planning applications, which often relate to land that is not designated for development? That causes distress and uncertainty in communities, and I welcome, therefore, your proposal for simpler local development plans, which would be better understood by the public and potential developers.
A wnewch chi ystyried hefyd fater ceisiadau cynllunio hapfasnachol, sy’n aml yn ymwneud â thir nad yw wedi ei bennu ar gyfer datblygu? Achosa hynny drallod ac ansicrwydd mewn cymunedau, ac felly, croesawaf eich cynnig am gynlluniau datblygu lleol symlach, a fyddai’n cael eu deall yn well gan y cyhoedd a darpar ddatblygwyr.
You started by saying that planning can be controversial, which it is in many cases. That is the nature of the game; it is about change, and people worry about change. We must accept that many people will be unhappy with the outcome of decisions. There are winners and losers, and people’s opinions are often polarised. However, at the heart of the public’s concern is whether decisions have been made fairly and transparently. That has certainly come through over the years. That can involve major decisions but, as those who you who have sat on planning committees will know, small decisions also matter and can upset individuals.
Dechreuasoch drwy ddweud y gall cynllunio fod yn ddadleuol, ac mae hynny’n wir mewn llawer o achosion. Dyna natur y peth; mae a wnelo â newid, ac mae pobl yn gofidio ynghylch newid. Rhaid inni dderbyn y bydd llawer o bobl yn anfodlon ar benderfyniadau. Mae enillwyr a chollwyr, ac yn aml mae barn pobl yn begynol. Fodd bynnag, yr hyn sydd wrth wraidd pryder y cyhoedd yw a wnaed penderfyniadau yn deg a thryloyw. Yn sicr, daeth hynny yn amlwg dros y blynyddoedd. Gall ymwneud â phenderfyniadau mawr ond, fel y gŵyr y rhai ohonoch sydd wedi eistedd ar bwyllgorau cynllunio, mae penderfyniadau bach yn bwysig hefyd a gallant gynhyrfu unigolion.
As you said, we need confidence in the system. Undoubtedly, some decisions are taking far too long. We must consider that in terms of our call-in system. One aspect that takes time is the environmental impact assessment. European regulations apply to that, and we must ensure that they are complied with. As you said, there is growing concern about the relationship between environmental and health considerations, and we are working in an area that is quite difficult and is often emotive. In many cases there is a lack of information. We must try to marry the speed of decisions and support for the needs of businesses, in particular, because the economy matters, with ensuring that the right information is available for people to base their decisions on.
Fel y dywedasoch, mae angen hyder yn y system. Yn ddiau, cymer rhai penderfyniadau ormod o amser o lawer. Rhaid inni ystyried hynny o ran ein system galw i mewn. Un agwedd a gymer amser yw asesu’r effaith amgylcheddol. Mae rheoliadau Ewropeaidd yn berthnasol i hynny, a rhaid inni sicrhau y cydymffurfir â hwy. Fel y dywedasoch, mae pryder cynyddol ynghylch y berthynas rhwng ystyriaethau amgylcheddol a rhai iechyd, a gweithiwn mewn maes sydd yn eithaf anodd ac yn aml yn gynyrfiadol. Mewn llawer o achosion mae prinder gwybodaeth. Rhaid inni geisio cyfuno cyflymder penderfyniadau a chymorth i anghenion busnesau, yn benodol, gan fod yr economi yn bwysig, â sicrhau bod y wybodaeth gywir ar gael i bobl seilio eu penderfyniadau arni.
On speculative applications, it would help if we could have simpler development plans that are produced quickly. In the paper, there are recommendations on reducing time limits and on repeat applications, which I know have been of great concern to local government.
O ran ceisiadau hapfasnachol, byddai’n helpu pe gallem gael cynlluniau datblygu symlach a gynhyrchir yn gyflym. Yn y papur, mae argymhellion ar gyfer lleihau terfynau amser ac ar ailgeisiadau, a fu o bryder mawr i lywodraeth leol mi wn.
The document expresses a commitment to inspiring public confidence in the planning system. It then goes on to say that we remain fully committed to unitary development plans, which dictate to local authorities how many houses they must build—
Mae’r ddogfen yn rhoi ymrwymiad i ysbrydoli hyder y cyhoedd yn y system gynllunio. Â yn ei blaen i ddweud ein bod yn dal i fod yn llwyr ymrwymedig i gynlluniau datblygu unedol, sy’n dweud wrth awdurdodau lleol faint o dai y mae’n rhaid iddynt eu hadeiladu—
Jane Davidson a gododd—
Jane Davidson rose—
I am sorry, I am not addressing this to the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning; I am addressing it to the Minister responsible for planning.
Mae’n ddrwg gennyf, ni chyfeiriaf hyn at y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes; fe’i cyfeiriaf at y Gweinidog sy’n gyfrifol am gynllunio.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 35
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 35
Order. I did not catch that. I was taking advice on subsequent business, as I occasionally must do.
Trefn. Ni chlywais hynny. Yr oeddwn yn cymryd cyngor ar fusnes i ddod, fel y mae’n rhaid imi ei wneud bob hyn a hyn.
The current system is that unitary development plans dictate to local authorities how many houses must be built. Do you agree that decisions about the numbers of houses would be best left to local authorities, rather than being dictated by the Assembly?
Y system gyfredol yw bod y cynlluniau datblygu unedol yn dweud wrth awdurdodau lleol faint o dai y mae’n rhaid eu hadeiladu. A gytunwch y byddai’n well i’r awdurdodau lleol wneud penderfyniadau ynglŷn â nifer y tai yn hytrach na’r Cynulliad yn dweud wrthynt beth i’w wneud?
As regards decision-making, I echo Helen Mary’s comments. One of the biggest concerns about the process is that developers who are refused permission by local authorities can appeal to the Assembly, but objectors have no further right of appeal. I have come across that many times in my constituency surgeries, as you have, I am sure. Although the situation is the same in England, this is your opportunity, Sue, to do something different in Wales and show everyone that we have a better system. You could lead the way.
O ran gwneud penderfyniadau, ategaf sylwadau Helen Mary. Un o’r pryderon mwyaf ynglŷn â’r broses yw y gall datblygwyr y gwrthodir caniatâd iddynt gan awdurdodau lleol apelio i’r Cynulliad, ond nid oes gan wrthwynebwyr unrhyw hawl bellach i apelio. Deuthum ar draws hynny sawl gwaith yn fy nghyngorfeydd, fel y gwnaethoch chi, mae’n siŵr. Er bod y sefyllfa yr un peth yn Lloegr, dyma eich cyfle chi, Sue, i wneud rhywbeth yn wahanol yng Nghymru a dangos i bawb bod gennym system well. Gallech arwain y ffordd.
My final point is on compulsory purchase. It is not mentioned in the document but there are hints that it will be considered. I am greatly concerned that the state can confiscate private property without always paying adequate compensation. Worse still, in some cases where compensation has been agreed—and this is not a political point, because it has been happening for years—payments are outstanding for up to 10 years. Will you ensure that action is taken so that if the state takes people’s private property away from them, it is obliged to recompense them generously and as quickly as possible?
Mae a wnelo fy mhwynt terfynol â phrynu gorfodol. Ni soniwyd am hyn yn y ddogfen ond mae awgrymiadau y caiff ei ystyried. Pryderaf lawer y gall y wladwriaeth atafaelu eiddo preifat heb dalu iawndal digonol bob tro. Yn waeth na hynny, mewn rhai achosion lle y cytunwyd ar iawndal—ac nid yw hyn yn bwynt gwleidyddol, oherwydd iddi ddigwydd ers blynyddoedd—mae taliadau’n ddyledus am hyd at 10 mlynedd. A sicrhewch y cymerir camau i’w gwneud yn ofynnol iddynt ddigolledu pobl yn hael ac mor gyflym â phosibl os bydd y wladwriaeth yn mynd â’u heiddo preifat oddi wrthynt?
I think that there is a misunderstanding on the first point. Unitary development plans are produced by the local authorities; the Assembly does not dictate them. There is planning guidance, but the contents of each unitary development plan is up to the local authority. In fact, we have been criticised in some quarters for not being dictatorial enough in relation to housing numbers. We must work on a regional basis. It goes back to the earlier point about housing numbers and population. If we want to be fair in Wales, we must look wider than one local authority. I think that Welsh local government understands that. People do not live their lives within local authority boundaries. We are seeing great movements of people and I will be interested to see the results of the census in that regard. However, you can take what I have said back to your local authority: it is the local authority’s unitary development plan.
Credaf fod camddealltwriaeth ar y pwynt cyntaf. Cynhyrchir cynlluniau datblygu unedol gan yr awdurdodau lleol; nid y Cynulliad sy’n eu deddfu. Mae canllawiau cynllunio yn bodoli, ond yr awdurdod lleol sy’n gyfrifol am gynnwys pob cynllun datblygu unedol. Mewn gwirionedd, cawsom ein beirniadu gan rai am beidio â bod yn ddigon awdurdodus ynglŷn â nifer tai. Rhaid inni weithio ar sail ranbarthol. Â hyn yn ôl at bwynt cynharach ynglŷn â niferoedd tai a phoblogaeth. Er mwyn bod yn deg yng Nghymru, rhaid inni edrych ymhellach nag un awdurdod lleol yn unig. Credaf fod llywodraeth leol Cymru yn deall hynny. Nid yw pobl yn byw eu bywydau o fewn ffiniau awdurdod lleol. Yr ydym yn gweld nifer fawr o bobl yn symud a bydd yn ddiddorol gweld canlyniadau’r cyfrifiad yn hynny o beth. Fodd bynnag, gallwch fynd â’r hyn a ddywedais yn ôl i’ch awdurdod lleol: cynllun datblygu unedol yr awdurdod lleol ydyw.
As regards objectors not having a right to appeal, the Conservative Government had many years when it could have changed that. One reason why it did not, I suspect, is that it would have come up against the problem—as I or Stephen Byers, the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and Transport, would do—that as soon as you give the right of appeal to a third party, the whole system slows down. That was the experience in Ireland. I am sure that you do not want a situation in which businesses feel even more frustrated that they cannot get their planning approvals. I suggest that you ask the Confederation of British Industry in Wales for its opinion. In the document—and it is open to consultation—I suggest that we find a better way of getting people’s voices heard in the system. It is difficult. I have thought hard about it, but I have not yet found a way forward. I am open to suggestions on how we could improve the system without completely log-jamming the planning process, because that is the danger, and that was the experience in Ireland.
O ran y pwynt nad oes gan wrthwynebwyr yr hawl i apelio, cafodd y Llywodraeth Geidwadol sawl blwyddyn pan allai fod wedi newid hynny. Un rheswm pam na wnaeth hynny, fe gredaf, yw y byddai wedi wynebu’r broblem—fel y byddwn i neu Stephen Byers, yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol dros Drafnidiaeth, Llywodraeth Leol a’r Rhanbarthau yn ei hwynebu—sef bod y system gyfan yn arafu unwaith y rhoddwch yr hawl i apelio i drydedd garfan. Dyna a ddigwyddodd yn Iwerddon. Yr wyf yn siŵr nad ydych am greu sefyllfa lle mae busnesau yn teimlo hyd yn oed yn fwy rhwystredig na allant gael cymeradwyaethau am eu cynlluniau. Awgrymaf eich bod yn gofyn i Gydffederasiwn Diwydiant Prydain yng Nghymru am ei farn. Yn y ddogfen—ac mae’n agored i ymgynghori arni—awgrymaf ein bod yn dod o hyd i ffordd well o sicrhau y clywir lleisiau pobl yn y system. Mae’n anodd. Yr wyf wedi meddwl yn ddwys amdani, ond heb ganfod ffordd ymlaen eto. Yr wyf yn barod i glywed awgrymiadau ar sut y gallem wella’r system heb greu tagfeydd yn y broses gynllunio, oherwydd dyna’r perygl, a dyna a ddigwyddodd yn Iwerddon.
On compulsory purchase, there is another document: two complementary documents will be put out for consultation. One is about planning obligations, or planning gain as it is commonly known, and the second is about compulsory purchase. There are complexities in the compulsory purchase regulations that are unacceptable in the modern age. I hope that that reassures you. We will able to discuss that in Committee.
O ran prynu gorfodol, mae dogfen arall: ymgynghorir ar ddwy ddogfen ategol. Mae a wnelo un â rhwymedigaethau cynllunio, neu fudd cynllunio fel y’i gelwir yn gyffredin, ac mae’r ail yn ymwneud â phrynu gorfodol. Mae cymhlethdodau yn y rheoliadau prynu gorfodol sy’n annerbyniol yn yr oes fodern. Gobeithio bod hynny’n rhoi tawelwch meddwl i chi. Byddwn yn gallu trafod hynny yn y Pwyllgor.
I welcome this consultation because it will help to speed up the regeneration of some of our more run-down communities. I also welcome the transparency that this new policy will bring and the opportunity it will give communities to participate in better decision-making.
Croesawaf yr ymgynghoriad hwn gan y bydd yn helpu i gyflymu’r broses o adfywio rhai o’n cymunedau sydd wedi dirywio fwyaf. Croesawaf hefyd y tryloywder a ddaw yn sgîl y polisi newydd hwn a’r cyfle a rydd i gymunedau gyfranogi yn y broses o wneud penderfyniadau yn well.
I have some questions. First, on the issue of new housing estates, what assurances can you give that, under this policy, pressure will be put on developers to give proper consideration to community facilities? There have been far too many examples of developers building houses and neglecting to carry out the final planning application requirements. I am talking about, for example, providing community facilities such as play areas, planting and landscaping. Everything is promised, but when the development is complete, it has not been done properly. There are also examples of developers who have gone into liquidation and left problems for local authorities to pick up, for example, unadopted roads, drains, sewers and so on.
Mae gennyf rai cwestiynau. Yn gyntaf, o ran ystadau tai newydd, pa sicrwydd y gallwch ei roi imi y caiff pwysau, o dan y polisi hwn, ei roi ar ddatblygwyr i roi ystyriaeth briodol i gyfleusterau cymunedol? Bu gormod o lawer o enghreifftiau o ddatblygwyr yn adeiladu tai ac yn esgeuluso cyflawni gofynion y cais cynllunio terfynol. Yr wyf yn sôn, er enghraifft, am ddarparu cyfleusterau cymunedol fel mannau chwarae, plannu a thirlunio. Addewir popeth ond pan fydd y datblygiad wedi ei gwblhau, nid yw wedi ei gyflawni’n gywir. Mae enghreifftiau hefyd o ddatblygwyr sydd wedi mynd yn ddatodwyr ac wedi gadael problemau i awdurdodau lleol eu datrys, er enghraifft, ffyrdd nas mabwysiadwyd, draeniau, carthffosydd ac yn y blaen.
Secondly, what assurances can you give that, under this policy, there will be a greater emphasis on better planning for housing development? I refer here to an emphasis on—
Yn ail, pa sicrwydd y gallwch ei roi y bydd mwy o bwyslais ar gynllunio gwell o ran datblygu tai, o dan y polisi hwn? Cyfeiriaf yma at bwyslais ar—
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 38
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 38
Order. This is getting to be a speech.
Trefn. Mae hyn yn mynd yn araith.
I refer to planning applications with anti-crime and energy-efficiency measures being built in at the design stage.
Cyfeiriaf at geisiadau cynllunio gyda mesurau gwrthdroseddu ac ynni effeithlon yn cael eu cynnwys yn y cam dylunio.
You refered to particular problems in Cynon Valley and I would be happy to have details of those. In terms of planning conditions, this goes back to what I said about the planning obligations paper. When that paper it is put out for consultation, people will see that it aims to make the system more transparent. We suggest to local authorities that, as they produce their unitary development plans, they need to make much more explicit what they require of developers. Developers will then know what is expected of them.
Cyfeiriasoch at broblemau penodol yng Nghwm Cynon a byddwn yn falch o gael manylion amdanynt. O ran amodau cynllunio, â hyn yn ôl at yr hyn a ddywedais ynglŷn â’r papur rhwymedigaethau cynllunio. Pan drefnir ymgynghoriad ar y papur hwnnw, bydd pobl yn gweld ei fod yn anelu at wneud y system yn fwy tryloyw. Awgrymwn wrth yr awdurdodau lleol fod angen iddynt, wrth gynhyrchu eu cynlluniau datblygu unedol, egluro’n well yr hyn y maent am i ddatblygwyr ei wneud. Yna bydd datblygwyr yn gwybod yr hyn a ddisgwylir.
In terms of community facilities, they should be covered under section 102 agreements, which are about securing those wider commitments. If commitments have not been honoured, we probably need to consider a legal means of securing up-front bonds. Local authorities certainly do that with road construction. Perhaps, in the light of your experience, we need to consider whether that should apply to community facilities, and so on.
O ran cyfleusterau cymunedol, dylent gael eu cwmpasu gan gytundebau adran 102 sydd a wnelo â sicrhau yr ymrwymiadau ehangach hynny. Os na chyflawnwyd yr ymrwymiadau, efallai fod angen inni ystyried ffordd gyfreithiol o sicrhau bondiau ar ddechrau’r trefniant. Gwna awdurdodau lleol hynny yn sicr wrth adeiladu ffyrdd. O gofio eich profiad chi, efallai fod angen inni ystyried a ddylai hynny fod yn berthnasol i gyfleusterau cymunedol ac yn y blaen.
I agree with you on the issue of better housing and estate design. The two documents will emphasise the importance of design. Also, the interviews for the new design commission will, I think, be held in March. The appointments to it will, I think, be brought here. That will be a way of saying to housing developers that they can provide housing accommodation, but it must be of a much better standard in terms of meeting energy requirements, housing layout, safety and all the aspects about which people are concerned.
Cytunaf â chi ar fater dylunio tai ac ystadau’n well. Bydd y ddwy ddogfen yn pwysleisio pwysigrwydd dylunio. Hefyd, cynhelir y cyfweliadau ar gyfer y comisiwn dylunio newydd, fe gredaf, ym mis Mawrth. Credaf y daw’r penodiadau ar ei gyfer yma. Bydd hynny’n ffordd o ddweud wrth ddatblygwyr tai y gallant ddarparu tai gwell, ond rhaid iddynt fod o safon well o lawer o ran bodloni gofynion ynni, diwyg tai, diogelwch a’r holl agweddau y mae pobl yn gofidio amdanynt.
Mae gennyf gwestiwn ar y cynlluniau datblygu unedol. Yr ydych yn ymwybodol o gynllun datblygu unedol Cyngor Sir Ceredigion. Mae’r drafft cyntaf—yn annerbyniol yn fy marn i—yn argymell codi 6,500 o dai newydd. Mae wedi cael gwrthwynebiad chwyrn yn yr ymgynghoriad presennol. Yr ydym yn disgwyl ail ddrafft gan y cyngor sir a fydd yn fwy derbyniol i gymunedau Ceredigion. A gredwch y dylai’r cynghorau fod yn trafod â chymunedau cyn llunio drafft cyntaf y cynllun datblygu, yn hytrach nag ymgynghori ar ôl gwneud y gwaith manwl o lunio’r drafft cyntaf?
I have a question on the unitary development plans. You are aware of Ceredigion County Council’s unitary development plan. The first draft—unacceptably, in my opinion—recommends building 6,500 new houses. It has met with fierce opposition during the current consultation. We are expecting a second draft from the county council that will be more acceptable to Ceredigion’s communities. Do you believe that councils should consult with communities before they draw up the first draft of development plans, instead of consulting after the detailed work of drawing up a first draft has been done?
Hefyd, sut y bydd eich cynnig i greu cynlluniau datblygu lleol, yn hytrach na chynlluniau datblygu unedol, yn effeithio ar gynghorau sir, fel Ceredigion, sydd ar fin cyhoeddi ail ddrafft eu cynlluniau unedol? A wyf yn iawn wrth feddwl y gallent daflu’r cynllun unedol presennol i’r bin a dechrau ar broses newydd o gynlluniau datblygu lleol?
Also, how will your proposal to create local development plans, as opposed to unitary development plans, impact on county councils such as Ceredigion, which are about to publish a second draft of their unitary plans? Am I right in thinking that they could throw the current unitary plan in the bin and start on a new process of local development plans?
You raise important points. On your second point, we are not saying that this is year zero, like Pol Pot, and that Ceredigion County Council should forget its previous work. The message to local authorities is that we want them to speed up the process. Unitary development plans were required to be in place by 2000. That target has not been met for many reasons. However, we want the councils to perserve with the UDPs. As Tom alluded to earlier, UDPs have taken up much time and have been far too detailed, covering repetitive policies that did not need to be included. We hope that local development plans will be more streamlined and concentrate on policies and places of change so that they will be much more focused.
Codwyd pwyntiau pwysig gennych. O ran eich ail bwynt, nid ydym yn dweud mai hon yw blwyddyn sero, fel Pol Pot, ac y dylai Cyngor Sir Ceredigion anghofio ei waith blaenorol. Y neges i awdurdodau lleol yw ein bod am iddynt gyflymu’r broses. Gofynnwyd i gynlluniau datblygu unedol fod ar waith erbyn 2000. Ni chyrhaeddwyd y targed hwnnw am sawl reswm. Fodd bynnag, yr ydym am i’r cynlluniau datblygu unedol gael eu datblygu. Fel y crybwyllodd Tom yn gynharach, maent wedi cymryd llawer o amser ac wedi bod yn rhy fanwl, yn cwmpasu polisïau ailadroddol nad oedd angen eu cynnwys. Gobeithiwn y bydd cynlluniau datblygu lleol yn symlach ac yn canolbwyntio ar bolisïau a mannau lle mae newid fel y byddant yn llawer mwy penodedig.
In terms of Ceredigion County Council, my planning division officials hold regular discussions with the council. We have told Ceredigion County Council that it needs to underpin the housing numbers with a settlement policy that justifies them. I am aware of your concerns. You asked whether the council should have consulted earlier. It is good practice, when forming a plan, to issue a conceptual framework for people to see. I appreciate that local authorities have tackled this in different ways. However, a key point that you and I are stressing, is that an agreement between local government and the local community, if you can reach it, on a vision that links in with the local authority’s strategy for the future of its communities, is important. If you get that right early on, subsequent stages move much quicker and more effectively.
O ran Cyngor Sir Ceredigion, mae swyddogion yn fy isadran gynllunio yn cynnal sawl trafodaeth reolaidd gyda’r cyngor. Dywedasom wrth Gyngor Sir Ceredigion fod angen iddo ategu nifer y tai gyda pholisi setliad sy’n ei gyfiawnhau. Yr wyf yn ymwybodol o’ch pryderon. Gofynasoch a ddylai’r cyngor fod wedi ymgynghori’n gynt. Mae’n arfer da, wrth lunio cynllun, i gyflwyno fframwaith cysyniadol i bobl ei weld. Gwerthfawrogaf fod awdurdodau lleol wedi mynd i’r afael â hyn mewn ffyrdd gwahanol. Fodd bynnag, un pwynt allweddol yr ydych chi a minnau yn ei bwysleisio yw bod cytundeb rhwng llywodraeth leol a’r gymuned leol, os gallwch ddod i gytundeb, ar weledigaeth sy’n gweddu â strategaeth yr awdurdod lleol ar gyfer dyfodol ei gymunedau, yn bwysig. Os llwyddwch i gael hynny yn gynnar yn y broses, cymerir y camau wedi hynny yn gynt o lawer ac yn fwy effeithiol.
The Welsh Liberal Democrats greatly welcome this document as a partnership agreement commitment. We believe that the proposals will make planning easier to deliver and will increase accountability and the consistency, speed, clarity and quality of planning. Greater confidence will be placed in the planning systems. Decisions will be more transparent and the private sector and general public will be confident about the future. The Liberal Democrats have always favoured greater devolution and this document will lead to a national planning system for Wales which will be more effective and considerably less bureaucratic. We wish to enhance the influence that communities have on planning decisions and cut down on bureaucracy. Local authorities will now be required, not requested, to outline in clear terms how communities will have greater influence on decisions and greater involvement in the planning process. Local authorities will also be obliged to explain their planning decisions, whether in favour of or against the proposal. Businesses that have consistently been denied planning permission will no longer be allowed to make repetitive claims. That will lead to other, more worthy projects being considered quicker and more efficiently. ‘Planning: Delivering for Wales’ also gives greater power to Wales and strengthens the principles of devolution, as local people will be empowered to influence decisions regarding their own communities. Communities and businesses will benefit greatly. This document provides for greater joined-up thinking and covers policies from the Assembly and local authorities. Finally—
Croesawa Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru y ddogfen hon fel ymrwymiad i gytundeb partneriaeth. Credwn y bydd y cynigion yn gwneud cynllunio yn haws i’w gyflawni a bydd yn cynyddu atebolrwydd a chysondeb, cyflymder, eglurder ac ansawdd cynllunio. Rhoddir mwy o hyder yn y systemau cynllunio. Bydd penderfyniadau yn fwy tryloyw a bydd y sector preifat a’r cyhoedd yn fwy hyderus ynglŷn â’r dyfodol. Mae’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol erioed wedi ffafrio mwy o ddatganoli a bydd y ddogfen hon yn arwain at system gynllunio genedlaethol i Gymru a fydd yn fwy effeithiol ac yn llai biwrocrataidd o lawer. Hoffem gynyddu’r dylanwad sydd gan gymunedau ar benderfyniadau cynllunio a chwtogi ar fiwrocratiaeth. Yn hytrach na gofyn iddynt, bydd yn ofynnol yn awr i awdurdodau lleol amlinellu’n glir y modd y bydd gan gymunedau mwy o ddylanwad ar benderfyniadau a rhan fwy i’w chwarae yn y broses gynllunio. Bydd yn rhaid i awdurdodau lleol hefyd egluro eu penderfyniadau cynllunio, pa un a ydynt o blaid neu yn erbyn y cynnig. Ni chaniateir i fusnesau y gwrthodwyd caniatâd cynllunio iddynt yn gyson wneud ailgeisiadau dro ar ôl tro. Bydd hynny yn arwain at ystyried prosiectau eraill, mwy teilwng yn gynt ac yn fwy effeithiol. Rhydd ‘Cynllunio: Cyflawni dros Gymru’ fwy o bŵer i Gymru a bydd yn cryfhau egwyddorion datganoli, gan y grymusir pobl leol i ddylanwadu ar benderfyniadau sydd a wnelo â’u cymunedau hwy eu hunain. Bydd cymunedau a busnesau yn elwa llawer iawn. Darpara’r ddogfen hon ar gyfer meddwl mewn ffordd fwy cydgysylltiedig a chwmpasa bolisïau gan y Cynulliad ac awdurdodau lleol. I gloi—
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 41
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 41
Order. I am still waiting for a question.
Trefn. Yr wyf yn dal i aros am gwestiwn.
We hope, Sue, that you will ensure that local authorities take all the requirements in this document on board.
Gobeithiaf, Sue, y sicrhewch y bydd awdurdodau lleol yn rhoi ystyriaeth i’r holl ofynion yn y ddogfen hon.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 41
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 41
Order. That was a speech. This is a statement and it requires questions. I allow preambles to lead speakers from party groups. I cannot allow speeches to be made during statements.
Trefn. Araith oedd honno. Datganiad yw hwn a rhaid cael cwestiynau. Caniatâf i brif siaradwyr o grwpiau’r pleidiau ragymadroddi. Ni allaf ganiatáu i areithiau gael eu rhoi yn ystod datganiadau.
I listened with interest to your statement, Sue. I have two questions. There are great problems in the agriculture industry in rural areas. All farmers in Wales now have the opportunity to hold business reviews to consider diversification, in particular, and to make their businesses more sound. One of the biggest problems they face in the business reviews is that diversification falls foul of the planning laws in respect of development in rural areas. I do not know how that can be solved. Another problem, apart from planning, is the use of existing buildings, which is a priority. In some cases, in specialised—
Gwrandewais gyda diddordeb ar eich datganiad, Sue. Mae gennyf ddau gwestiwn. Mae problemau mawr yn y diwydiant amaethyddiaeth mewn ardaloedd gwledig. Caiff pob ffermwr yng Nghymru y cyfle yn awr i gynnal adolygiadau busnes i ystyried arallgyfeirio, yn arbennig, ac i wneud eu busnesau yn fwy diogel. Un o’r problemau mwyaf a wynebant yn yr adolygiadau busnes yw bod arallgyfeirio yn torri’r deddfau cynllunio o ran datblygu mewn ardaloedd gwledig. Ni wn sut y gellir datrys hynny. Problem arall, ar wahân i gynllunio, yw’r defnydd o adeiladau presennol, sydd yn flaenoriaeth. Mewn rhai achosion, mewn meysydd arbenigol—
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 41
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 41
Order. This problem is catching. Ask a question, Peter. You are the second Member from your party to speak. We have already had a preamble from David Davies; I would welcome a question.
Trefn. Mae’r broblem hon yn heintus. Gofynnwch gwestiwn, Peter. Chi yw’r ail Aelod o’ch plaid i siarad. Cawsom ragymadrodd gan David Davies yn barod; hoffwn glywed cwestiwn.
Would there have been enough consultation between the business advisers and the planning officials for the business advisers to understand how to get their plans accepted? It is important to recognise that moving these businesses onto industrial estates will not help jobs in rural areas, and that we should be able to develop some of these businesses in the countryside.
A fyddai digon o ymgynghori wedi bod rhwng yr ymgynghorwyr busnes a’r swyddogion cynllunio i’r ymgynghorwyr busnes ddeall sut i sicrhau bod eu cynlluniau yn cael eu derbyn? Mae’n bwysig cydnabod na fydd symud y busnesau hyn i ystadau diwydiannol yn helpu swyddi mewn ardaloedd gwledig, ac y dylem fod yn gallu datblygu rhai o’r busnesau hyn yng nghefn gwlad.
The question is how far will planning laws support rural diversification. Planning is complex, but the draft policy document has been to Committee and will be in final draft by about April. There is a relaxation—if I can generalise—on issues of rural diversification and buildings. We have consulted on that, and there was general approval for the line we were taking, although I do not know if it went to the Agriculture and Rural Development Committee. It is a difficult line because we want to support, as you said, rural businesses, because farming has gone through a difficult time, but we cannot open the floodgates to all sorts of developments that would spoil the countryside. Therefore, we hope that we have got it right in that document; it will remain to be seen, but we will monitor it and listen to what the Agriculture and Rural Development Committee says.
Y cwestiwn yw i ba raddau y bydd deddfau cynllunio yn cefnogi arallgyfeirio gwledig. Mae cynllunio yn gymhleth, ond bu’r ddogfen bolisi ddrafft gerbron y Pwyllgor a bydd fersiwn drafft terfynol erbyn tua mis Ebrill. Llaciwyd—os gallaf gyffredinoli—ar faterion arallgyfeirio gwledig ac adeiladau. Yr ydym wedi ymgynghori ar hynny, a chymeradwywyd y safbwynt yr oeddem yn ei arddel yn gyffredinol er na wn a aeth gerbron y Pwyllgor Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig. Mae’n safbwynt anodd oherwydd yr ydym am gefnogi, fel y dywedasoch, fusnesau gwledig, gan fod ffermio wedi bod trwy gyfnod anodd, ond ni allwn agor y llifddorau i bob math o ddatblygiadau a fyddai’n amharu ar gefn gwlad. Felly, gobeithiwn ein bod wedi llwyddo yn hynny o beth yn y ddogfen honno; rhaid aros i weld, ond byddwn yn ei monitro ac yn gwrando ar yr hyn y dywed y Pwyllgor Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig.
In terms of planning laws supporting businesses in the community, this goes back to Elin’s bid for supplementary legislation in the first year, when she raised the point that people in rural areas need to have co-ordinated advice. I hope that that has fed through into the business advice system; that was the intention. I have had no feedback to the contrary, but if Members are in touch with constituents who feel that that is still not working, then we must take that forward.
O ran deddfau cynllunio yn cefnogi busnesau yn y gymuned, â hyn yn ôl at gynnig Elin ar gyfer deddfwriaeth ategol yn y flwyddyn gyntaf, pan gododd y pwynt bod angen i bobl mewn ardaloedd gwledig gael cyngor wedi ei gydgysylltu. Gobeithiaf fod hynny wedi treiddio i’r system cynghori busnesau; dyna oedd y bwriad. Ni chefais adborth i’r gwrthwyneb, ond os yw’r Aelodau mewn cysylltiad ag etholwyr sy’n teimlo nad yw’n gweithio o hyd, rhaid inni ystyried hynny ymhellach.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 42
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 42
In view of the fact that this is a statement on a consultation document, there will be other opportunities for Members to ask questions, therefore I do not intend to extend the session because we have an important statement on Corus from the First Minister.
O gofio mai datganiad ar ddogfen ymgynghorol yw hwn, bydd cyfleoedd eraill i’r Aelodau ofyn cwestiynau, felly ni fwriadaf ymestyn y sesiwn gan fod gennym ddatganiad pwysig ar Corus gan Brif Weinidog Cymru.
Datganiad ar Corus
Statement on Corus
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 43
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 43
Tomorrow will be the first anniversary of Corus’s announcement of its 6,000 job losses, almost half of which were in Wales. There was an additional loss of 1,000 jobs, mostly from the number of sub-contractors whose services were no longer required. This amounted to one of the largest single blows to Welsh manufacturing or Welsh employment in recent years.
Yfory, bydd yn flwyddyn ers i gwmni Corus gyhoeddi ei fod yn cael gwared ar 6,000 o swyddi, y mae bron hanner ohonynt yng Nghymru. Yr oedd colled ychwanegol o 1,000 o swyddi , y rhan fwyaf ohonynt o’r nifer o is-gontractwyr nad oedd angen eu gwasanaethau mwyach. Yr oedd hon yn un o’r ergydion unigol mwyaf i weithgynhyrchu yng Nghymru neu i gyflogaeth yng Nghymru yn y blynyddoedd diwethaf.
On 8 November, in the worst steel disaster of recent years in the UK, three men were killed and 12 injured in a massive explosion in blast furnace no. 5 in Corus’s Port Talbot plant. Tragedy came on top of massive lay-offs in one of the most difficult years in the 250-year history of the Welsh steel industry.
Ar 8 Ionawr yn un o drychinebau gwaetha’r diwydiant dur yn y blynyddoedd diwethaf yn y DU, cafodd tri dyn eu lladd a 12 eu hanafu mewn ffrwydriad enfawr yn ffwrnais chwyth rhif 5 yng ngwaith dur Corus Port Talbot. Daeth trasiedi ar ben y diswyddiadau enfawr yn un o’r blynyddoedd mwyaf anodd yn hanes diwydiant dur Cymru sydd wedi ymestyn dros 250 o flynyddoedd.
Nothing can take away the body blow suffered by the steel-making communities of Wales with the Corus job losses announcement in February last year; there is, however, a modest reason for optimism in our steel communities. Today, I am able to announce the details of that package. The original aid package that I announced on 3 May 2001 provided £66 million to support those facing redundancy and the communities hit by the closures. The Assembly was to provide £50 million of this funding and the UK Government and European Coal and Steel Community was to provide £16 million. A further £26 million was announced by the Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities, bringing the funding from the Assembly Government to £76 million, and the total to £92 million.
Ni all dim ddileu yr ergyd galed a ddioddefodd cymunedau gwneud dur Cymru yn sgîl cyhoeddiad colli swyddi Corus ym mis Chwefror y llynedd; fodd bynnag, mae rheswm cymedrol dros fod yn galonnog yn ein cymunedau dur. Heddiw, gallaf gyhoeddi manylion y pecyn hwnnw. Yr oedd y pecyn cymorth gwreiddiol a gyhoeddais ar 3 Mai 2001 yn rhoi £66 miliwn i gynorthwyo’r rhai a oedd yn wynebu diswyddiadau a’r cymunedau lle yr oedd gweithfeydd yn wynebu cau gweithfeydd. Yr oedd y Cynulliad i ddarparu £50 miliwn o’r arian hwn ac yr oedd Llywodraeth y DU a’r Gymuned Ewropeaidd Glo a Dur i ddarparu £16 miliwn. Cyhoeddwyd £26 miliwn pellach gan y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau, gan ddod â’r arian gan Lywodraeth y Cynulliad i £76 miliwn a’r cyfanswm i £92 miliwn.
The training and advice provided for steelworkers through Education and Learning Wales, the Employment Service, the Benefits Agency and Careers Wales, was speedily made available. The on-site advice centres and a range of local community outlets supported through the learndirect helpline, ELWa, the Employment Service and Careers Wales have dealt with over 12,000 inquiries. There has been rapid access to adult guidance services resulting in over 750 workers participating in training to enhance their employability, and approximately 650 workers accessing wider support aimed at removing barriers to getting alternative jobs. To date, some 850 of those identified for redundancy have secured alternative jobs. This is a considerable achievement given the scale and concentration of the job losses, and is testament to the effectiveness of the teamwork between the agencies involved in delivery and to the determination and resilience of the steelworkers affected.
Aed ati’n gyflym i sicrhau bod yr hyfforddiant a’r cyngor a roddwyd i weithwyr dur ar gael drwy Addysgu a Dysgu Cymru, Y Gwasanaeth Cyflogi, yr Asiantaeth Fudd-daliadau a Gyrfaoedd Cymru. Mae’r canolfannau cynghori ar y safleoedd ac ystod o allfeydd cymunedol lleol a gefnogwyd gan y llinell cyswllt dysgu uniongyrchol, ELWa, y Gwasanaeth Cyflogi a Gyrfaoedd Cymru wedi delio â dros 12,000 o ymholiadau. Manteisiwyd llawer ar y gwasanaethau cynghori i oedolion a arweiniodd at dros 750 o weithwyr yn cyfranogi mewn hyfforddiant i wella eu cyflogadwyedd, a thua 650 o weithwyr i fanteisio ar gefnogaeth ehangach a anelwyd at symud rhwystrau i gael swyddi amgen. Hyd yma, mae rhyw 850 o’r rheini a ddiswyddwyd wedi dod o hyd i swyddi amgen. Mae hyn yn gryn gyflawniad o gofio graddfa a dwysedd y colledion, ac mae’n dystiolaeth i effeithiolrwydd y gwaith tîm rhwng yr asiantaethau a gyfrannodd i’r ddarpariaeth ac i benderfyniad a dycnwch y gweithwyr yr effeithiwyd arnynt.
I will also underline the innovative nature of some aspects of our response. For example, we provided £300,000 over three years under the Wales union learning fund, to enable the Iron and Steel Trades Confederation to provide training for learning advocates in communities affected by steel plant closures. That project will run for three years.
Tanlinellaf hefyd natur arloesol rhai agweddau ar ein hymateb. Er enghraifft, darparwyd £300,000 gennym dros dair blynedd o dan y gronfa dysgu undeb Cymru, i alluogi’r Cydffederasiwn Diwydiannau Haearn a Dur i ddarparu hyfforddiant ar gyfer anogwyr dysgu mewn cymunedau yr effeithiwyd arnynt o ganlyniad i gau gweithfeydd dur. Bydd y prosiect hwnnw yn para am dair blynedd.
However, we should not be complacent. The redundancy programme continues, with around 140 people scheduled to leave Llanwern in April, and approximately 450 workers leaving Ebbw Vale in July. The on-site advice centres will be available again in both locations to offer help to those who need it. Furthermore, at 9.00 a.m. today, 44 job losses were announced at the Panteg works, which was formerly part of British Steel before it was merged into Corus. It is now part of AvestaPolarit. I understand that Corus is a minority shareholder in AvestaPolarit, although it has no management control.
Fodd bynnag, ni ddylem fod yn hunanfodlon. Mae’r rhaglen diswyddiadau yn parhau, a disgwylir i 140 o bobl adael Llanwern ym mis Ebrill, a thua 450 i adael Glynebwy ym mis Gorffennaf. Bydd y canolfannau cynghori ar y safleoedd ar gael eto ar y ddau safle i gynnig help i’r rheini sydd ei angen. At hynny, am 9.00 a.m. heddiw cyhoeddwyd y byddai 44 o swyddi yn cael eu colli yng ngwaith Panteg, a oedd yn flaenorol yn rhan o Ddur Prydain cyn iddo gael ei gyfuno â Corus. Y mae yn awr yn rhan o AvestaPolarit. Deallaf fod Corus yn gyfranddaliwr lleiafrifol yn AvestaPolarit, er nad oes ganddo unrhyw reolaeth drosto.
In addition to the job losses announced by Corus, there was a negative impact on the supply chain. We asked the Welsh Development Agency to identify and offer assistance to suppliers to ensure that the impact was minimised. Corus identified 128 companies, of which some 100 agreed to meet the WDA in conjunction with the local enterprise agencies. Many follow-up meetings have been held, and work continues to assist and support the companies wherever possible.
Yn ychwanegol at y colli swyddi a gyhoeddwyd gan Corws, bu effaith negyddol ar y gadwyn gynhyrchu. Bu i ni ofyn i Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru nodi a chynnig cymorth i gyflenwyr i sicrhau bod yr effaith yn cael ei leihau. Dynododd Corus 128 o gwmnïau, ac o’r rheini cytunodd rhyw 100 i gwrdd â’r WDA mewn cydweithrediad â’r asiantaethau menter lleol. Cynhaliwyd llawer o gyfarfodydd wedi hyn, ac mae’r gwaith yn parhau i gynorthwyo a chefnogi’r cwmnïau lle mae hynny’n bosibl.
The closure of the Bryngwyn plant impacted on Gorseinon, and some £4 million has been made available to assist the renewal of that town. A regeneration forum has been established, which includes representatives of all interested parties, and a regeneration strategy is being prepared. A regeneration officer has been appointed and support is already flowing to assist the regeneration of the commercial centre of the town.
Cafodd cau gwaith Bryngwyn effaith ar dref Gorseinon, a sicrhawyd bod tua £4 miliwn ar gael i gynorthwyo gyda’r gwaith o adfer y dref honno. Sefydlwyd fforwm adfywio, sy’n cynnwys cynrychiolwyr o’r holl garfanau sydd â diddordeb ac mae strategaeth adfywio yn cael ei baratoi. Penodwyd swyddog adfywio ac mae cefnogaeth yn llifo’n barod i helpu i adfywio canol masnachol y dref.
Members will recall that, in June 2000, Corus had already announced a raft of cutbacks and the closure of its Welsh research and development centre at Port Talbot. That was a blow to our aspirations to enhance Wales’s capacity for research and development. We therefore sought alternative uses for the facility to retain the expertise that had been established over many years and build upon the strong academic links that the Port Talbot research centre had. With funding from the recovery package, terms have been agreed to acquire the facility and establish an advanced technology centre. Major national institutions have shown significant interest in locating at the facility and expanding the involvement of academia across all south Wales universities. This is an exciting and challenging project and the WDA will appoint a chief operating officer to develop the initiative within the next few weeks.
Bydd yr Aelodau yn cofio, ym mis Mehefin 2000, fod Corus yn barod wedi cyhoeddi ystod o doriadau a chau ei ganolfan datblygu ac ymchwil Gymreig ym Mhort Talbot. Yr oedd hynny’n ergyd i’n dyheadau i gryfhau gallu ymchwil a datblygu Cymru. Felly gwnaethom ymgais i ddod o hyd i ddefnydd amgen i’r cyfleustra i gadw’r arbenigedd oedd wedi ei sefydlu dros nifer fawr o flynyddoedd ac adeiladu ar y cyswllt academaidd cryf a oedd gan ganolfan ymchwil Port Talbot. Gydag arian o’r pecyn adfer, cytunwyd ar delerau i brynu’r cyfleustra a sefydlu canolfan dechnoleg flaengar. Dangosodd sefydliadau cenedlaethol o bwys ddiddordeb mawr mewn cael lle yn y cyfleustra ac ymestyn yr ymwneud a fyddai gan academia ynddo ar draws prifysgolion de Cymru i gyd. Mae hwn yn brosiect cyffrous a bydd y WDA yn penodi prif swyddog gweithredu i ddatblygu’r fenter o fewn yr ychydig wythnosau nesaf.
Inevitably, the great bulk of the resources provided by the Assembly Government has been directed towards the regeneration of the communities most directly affected by the Corus job cuts. The ambitious Team Wales regeneration framework for south-east Wales is now ready for full implementation. That framework originates from the innovative response made by the all-Wales steel taskforce, which was established in summer 2000 to address the first wave of Corus job losses. The taskforce recommended a holistic approach, encompassing the individual Corus workers facing redundancy and the wider community. The final report is due to be published next month.
Yn anorfod, cyfeiriwyd y rhan fwyaf o’r adnoddau a ddarparwyd gan Lywodraeth y Cynulliad o bell ffordd tuag at adfywio’r cymunedau yr effeithiwyd arnynt fwyaf gan doriadau swyddi Corus. Mae fframwaith adfywio uchelgeisiol Tîm Cymru ar gyfer y de-ddwyrain yn awr yn barod i’w weithredu’n llawn. Deillia’r fframwaith hwnnw o’r ymateb arloesol a gafwyd gan y tasglu dur Cymru-gyfan, a sefydlwyd yn haf 2000 i fynd i’r afael â thon gyntaf dileu swyddi gan Corus. Argymhellodd y tasglu ymagwedd holistig gan gwmpasu gweithwyr unigol Corus a oedd yn wynebu diswyddiadau a’r gymuned ehangach. Disgwylir cyhoeddi’r adroddiad terfynol fis nesaf.
Using the funds set aside to deal with the redundancies, we have agreed to fund several exciting initiatives recommended in the regeneration strategy. We propose to put in pump-priming money for an urban regeneration company for the Newport area. This will promote industrial and physical regeneration, and bring forward development opportunities. The boundaries and remit of the URC will be subject to a further detailed report, which is underway. The Assembly Government is allocating £10 million, and the funding in the first three years will be matched by another £10 million from the WDA. The value realised from development over the initial three-year period will then be recycled to fund future years of the URC’s activities.
Gan ddefnyddio’r arian a roddwyd o’r neilltu i ddelio â’r diswyddiadau, yr ydym wedi cytuno i ariannu nifer o fentrau cyffrous a argymhellwyd yn y strategaeth adfywio. Mae’n fwriad gennym i roi arian ysgogi ar gyfer cwmni adfywio trefol ar gyfer ardal Casnewydd. Bydd hyn yn hyrwyddo adfywiad diwydiannol a ffisegol, ac yn cychwyn ar gyfleoedd datblygu. Bydd ffiniau a chylch gwaith y Cwmni Adfywio Trefol yn amodol ar adroddiad manwl pellach sydd ar y gweill. Mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn dyrannu £10 miliwn a chaiff yr arian yn y tair blynedd gyntaf ei gyfateb a £10 miliwn arall oddi wrth y WDA. Bydd y gwerth a godir o’r datblygiad dros y cyfnod cychwynnol o dair blynedd wedyn yn cael ei ailgylchu i ariannu gweithgareddau’r Cwmni Adfywio Trefol yn y blynyddoedd wedi hynny.
In line with the commitment to improving the area’s transport links in a sustainable way, we propose to fund the first phase of reopening the passenger train service to Ebbw Vale. This will involve opening a single-track passenger service to Cardiff. Later phases will probably link with the Transport Integration in the Gwent Economic Region Consortium and the South Wales Integrated Fast Transit Consortium. We are committing £7 million to that project over the next two years, and we hope that it will open the following year.
Yn unol â’r ymrwymiad i wella cysylltiadau trafnidiaeth yr ardal mewn ffordd gynaliadwy, bwriadwn ariannu cam cyntaf ail agor y gwasanaeth trenau teithwyr i Lynebwy. Golyga hyn agor gwasanaeth teithwyr trac sengl i Gaerdydd. Bydd camau diweddarach yn debyg o gysylltu â Chonsortiwm Integreiddio Trafnidiaeth yn Rhanbarth Economaidd Gwent a Chonsortiwm Teithio Cyflym Integredig De Cymru. Yr ydym yn ymrwymo £7 miliwn i’r prosiect hwnnw dros y ddwy flynedd nesaf, a gobeithiwn y caiff ei agor y flwyddyn ganlynol.
In order to establish better education facilities in the area, we intend to contribute to the Ebbw Vale learning campus. That development will consist of a post-16 learning and training facility, an administrative centre for the proposed community learning network and small incubator business units. This will be the first phase of the redevelopment of the Ebbw Vale site, for which we are providing £5 million over the next three years. We will also ensure that Corus meets its obligations in terms of site redemption at Ebbw Vale and Llanwern.
Er mwyn sefydlu cyfleusterau addysg gwell yn yr ardal, bwriadwn gyfrannu tuag at gampws dysgu Glynebwy. Bydd y datblygiad hwnnw yn cynnwys cyfleustra dysgu a hyfforddi ôl-16, canolfan weinyddol ar gyfer y rhwydwaith dysgu cymunedol arfaethedig ac unedau cychwyn busnesau bach. Hwn fydd y cam cyntaf yn ail ddatblygiad safle Glynebwy, yr ydym yn darparu £5 miliwn ar ei gyfer dros y tair blynedd nesaf. Byddwn hefyd yn sicrhau bod Corus yn cyflawni ei gyfrifoldebau o ran achub y safleoedd er mwyn eu hail ddefnyddio yng Nglynebwy a Llanwern.
To support the lifelong learning ethos, we plan to fund a community learning network. This will involve the creation of a network of community learning centres throughout the sub-region to drive a substantial increase in participation in high-quality education and training opportunities. The centres will provide access to learning opportunities from basic literacy up to modular degree standards. Where appropriate, the centres will offer training tailored to the needs of local employers. The proposed learning campus at Ebbw Vale will act as an administrative centre and will be responsible for networking and the dissemination of good practice. We are committing £2 million to this initiative over the next two years.
Er mwyn cynnal y meddylfryd dysgu gydol oes, bwriadwn ariannu rhwydwaith dysgu cymunedol. Bydd hyn yn golygu creu rhwydwaith o ganolfannau dysgu cymunedol ar draws yr isranbarth i gynyddu’n sylweddol y cyfranogiad mewn addysg o safon uchel a chyfleoedd dysgu. Bydd y canolfannau yn darparu mynediad i gyfleoedd dysgu o lythrennedd sylfaenol hyd at safon gradd fodiwlaidd. Lle bo’n briodol bydd y canolfannau yn cynnig hyfforddiant wedi ei deilwra i anghenion cyflogwyr lleol. Bydd y campws dysgu arfaethedig yng Nglynebwy yn gweithredu fel canolfan weinyddol a bydd yn gyfrifol am rwydweithio a lledaenu arfer da. Yr ydym yn ymrwymo i roi £2 filiwn tuag at y fenter hon dros y ddwy flynedd nesaf.
We also intend to provide and support information communication technology infrastructure across the sub-region, with additional support to promote the use of ICT and e-procurement initiatives. Support for the Valleys innovation, technology and communication centre is included. The roll-out of ICT infrastructure will concentrate, in the first instance, on Blaenau Gwent. We are committing £3.5 million to this project over the next two years.
Hefyd bwriadwn ddarparu a chefnogi seilwaith technoleg gwybodaeth a chyfathrebu ar draws yr isranbarth, ynghyd â chefnogaeth ychwanegol i hyrwyddo’r defnydd o fentrau TGCh ac e-gaffael. Yn gynwysedig mae cefnogaeth i ganolfan fenter, technoleg a chyfathrebu y Cymoedd. Bydd cyflwyno’r seilwaith TGCh yn canolbwyntio, yn y lle cyntaf, ar Flaenau Gwent. Yr ydym yn ymrwymo i roi £3.5 miliwn i’r prosiect hwn dros y ddwy flynedd nesaf.
It is also important to support community initiatives in the area, and we intend to fund the creation of a social enterprise development fund to support the activities of existing development trusts and other social enterprise projects. That will be linked to making physical improvements to town centres. Funding will initially concentrate on Blaenau Gwent and, in particular, Ebbw Vale. We are committing £2.4 million to this project over the next two years. A range of other projects, worth over £2 million, has also been agreed. We are also examining many other initiatives that have emerged from the regeneration strategy, and we will make further announcements on those in due course.
Y mae hefyd yn bwysig i gefnogi mentrau cymunedol yn y maes hwn, a bwriadwn ariannu’r gwaith o greu cronfa ddatblygu menter gymdeithasol i gefnogi gweithgareddau yr ymddiriedolaethau datblygu sydd eisoes yn bodoli a phrosiectau menter cymdeithasol eraill. Cysylltir hynny â gwneud gwelliannau ffisegol i ganol trefi. Bydd yr ariannu ar y dechrau yn canolbwyntio ar Flaenau Gwent ac, yn arbennig, ar Lynebwy. Yr ydym yn ymrwymo i roi £2.4 miliwn i’r prosiect hwn dros y ddwy flynedd nesaf. Cytunwyd hefyd ar ystod o brosiectau eraill gwerth dros £2 filiwn. Yr ydym wrthi yn archwilio llawer o fentrau eraill a ddaeth yn amlwg o’r strategaeth adfywio, a byddwn yn gwneud cyhoeddiadau pellach ar y rhai hynny maes o law.
A significant outcome of the exercise to produce the regeneration framework is that the county boroughs involved, namely Blaenau Gwent, Caerphilly, Monmouthshire, Newport and Torfaen, have agreed to set up a five counties regeneration forum, which will also include representatives from the Welsh Development Agency, ELWa and the Welsh Assembly Government. The board will meet regularly to track the progress of key regeneration. This will be a major opportunity to put together a comprehensive strategy to shake off decades of slow growth and over-dependence on the basic industries of coal and steel. The WDA is already planning the development of business and industrial premises capable of accommodating several thousand jobs at Rhyd-y-Blew and the Victoria Business Park, Ebbw Vale, the Rising Sun Industrial Estate at Blaina, Llantarnam Industrial Park at Cwmbran, Oakdale near Blackwood, and Queensway Meadows at Newport. Discussions are continuing on a range of other projects in those Objectives 1 and 2 areas.
Canlyniad arwyddocaol yr ymarferiad i gynhyrchu’r fframwaith adfywio yw bod y bwrdeisdrefi sirol sy’n gysylltiedig â hyn, sef Blaenau Gwent, Caerffili, Sir Fynwy, Casnewydd a Thor-faen, wedi cytuno i sefydlu fforwm adfywio y pum sir, a fydd hefyd yn cynnwys cynrychiolwyr o Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru, ELWa a Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru. Bydd y bwrdd yn cwrdd yn gyson i ddilyn datblygiad yr adfywio allweddol. Bydd hyn yn gyfle mawr i roi strategaeth gynhwysfawr at ei gilydd i ymddihatru o ddegawdau o dwf araf a gorddibyniaeth ar ddiwydiannau sylfaenol glo a dur. Mae’r WDA eisoes yn cynllunio datblygu adeiladau busnes a diwydiant a all roi cartref i sawl mil o swyddi yn Rhyd-y-Blew a Pharc Busnes Fictoria, Glynebwy, Stad Ddiwydiannol y Rising Sun yn y Blaenau, Parc Diwydiannol Llantarnam yng Nghwmbran, Oakdale ger y Coed-duon, a Queensway Meadows yng Nghasnewydd. Mae trafodaethau yn parhau ar ystod o brosiectau eraill yn yr ardaloedd Amcan 1 ac Amcan 2.
Outside the assisted areas, I have asked the WDA and Flintshire County Council to maintain the momentum of their development programmes in one of our economic powerhouse areas—Deeside, Broughton and elsewhere in Flintshire. Additionally, we have provided £1 million to Flintshire County Council to provide training and job search advice and support services to Corus employees affected by redundancies. We commissioned a valuable study into the effect on communities of job losses in the steel industry. The findings of this work have resulted in most of its recommendations being accepted. An action plan has been agreed and is now being implemented by the Assembly Government and its partners. Progress will be monitored by the steel taskforce and its executive group
Y tu allan i’r ardaloedd sy’n cael cymorth, gofynnais i’r WDA a Chyngor Sir y Fflint i gynnal momentwm eu rhaglenni datblygu yn un o’n hardaloedd pwerus yn economaidd—Glannau Dyfrdwy, Brychdwn a mannau eraill yn Sir y Fflint. Yn ychwanegol, yr ydym wedi darparu £1 filiwn i Gyngor Sir y Fflint i ddarparu hyfforddiant a chyngor chwilio am swydd a gwasanaethau cymorth i weithwyr Corus a effeithiwyd gan y diswyddiadau. Comisiynwyd astudiaeth werthfawr gennym ar effaith colli swyddi yn y diwydiant dur ar gymunedau. Mae casgliadau’r gwaith hwn wedi arwain at dderbyn y rhan fwyaf o’i argymhellion. Cytunwyd ar gynllun gweithredu ac mae yn awr yn cael ei roi ar waith gan Lywodraeth y Cynulliad a’i phartneriaid. Bydd y cynnydd yn cael ei fonitro gan y tasglu dur a’i grŵp gweithredol.
Following the explosion at Port Talbot on 8 November, Corus has recently announced its commitment to building a new £75 million blast furnace to replace the no. 5 furnace in Port Talbot. The new furnace will have a slightly larger capacity than no. 5 with fume-arresting equipment, which will demonstrate how heavy industry can adapt to the environmental expectations of the modern world. This is particularly important in Port Talbot because the town is so close to the steelworks. This is sustainable development in the best and widest sense. The Welsh Assembly Government will not let Corus off the hook in terms of its obligations towards site reinstatement, which will have great significance for the future prosperity of local communities.
Yn dilyn y ffrwydriad yn Port Talbot ar 8 Tachwedd, cyhoeddodd Corus yn ddiweddar ei ymrwymiad i adeiladu ffwrnais chwyth £75 miliwn newydd yn lle ffwrnais rhif 5 yn Port Talbot. Bydd gan y ffwrnais newydd gapasiti ychydig yn fwy na rhif 5 gydag offer atal mwg a fydd yn dangos sut y gall diwydiant trwm addasu i fodloni disgwyliadau amgylcheddol y byd modern. Mae hyn yn arbennig o bwysig i Port Talbot gan fod y dref mor agos i’r gwaith dur. Mae hwn yn ddatblygu cynaliadwy yn yr ystyr orau ac ehangaf. Ni fydd Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn gadael i Corus ddianc yn ddi-gosb o ran ei oblygiadau tuag at adfer safle, a fydd o bwys mawr ar gyfer ffyniant cymunedau lleol i’r dyfodol.
Manufacturing in Wales accounts for over 18 per cent of employment and 28 per cent of gross domestic product. That is well above the UK average and is a vital source of national wealth. Steel is a major part of that and, I believe, will continue to be so for many years to come. Yesterday, I met Tony Pedder, the recently appointed Chief Executive of Corus, along with the company’s most senior man in Wales, Dr Mark Carr, Managing Director of strip products, and Stuart Pettifor of the company’s strip business unit. Although aware of the enormous challenges facing their industry they left me in no doubt about their commitment to Wales as a place where world-class steel production can take place.
Mae cynhyrchu yng Nghymru yn cyfrif am 18 y cant o gyflogaeth a 28 y cant o’r cynnyrch mewnwladol crynswth. Mae hynny dipyn yn uwch na chyfartaledd y DU ac mae’n ffynhonnell hollbwysig o’n cyfoeth cenedlaethol. Mae dur yn rhan fawr o hynny, a chredaf y bydd yn parhau i fod felly am flynyddoedd lawer i ddod. Ddoe, cyfarfûm â Tony Pedder, Prif Weithredwr Corus sydd newydd ei benodi, ynghyd â’r person â’r swydd uchaf yn y cwmni yng Nghymru, Dr Mark Carr, Rheolwr Gyfarwyddwr cynnyrch strip, a Stuart Pettifor o uned fusnes strip y cwmni. Er yn ymwybodol o’r heriau anferth sy’n wynebu eu diwydiant yr oedd eu hymrwymiad i Gymru fel lle y gall cynhyrchu dur o safon byd ddigwydd yn hollol eglur i mi.
The new blast furnace that will be constructed at Port Talbot will not only be a memorial to those who lost their lives or were seriously injured in November, but will also be a symbol of the endurance of an industry vital to Wales, and its continuing contribution to this country in the decades to come and to the communities that serve it. There are no quick fixes to problems as entrenched as those of our communities that are dependent on heavy industry, but I believe that the programme I have set out today is a new start and the strongest possible expression of faith in the future of those communities.
Bydd y ffwrnais chwyth newydd a gaiff ei chodi yn Port Talbot ddim yn unig yn gofeb i’r rheini gollodd eu bywydau neu a anafwyd yn ddifrifol ym mis Tachwedd, ond hefyd yn symbol o ddyfalbarhad diwydiant sy’n hollbwysig i Gymru, a’i gyfraniad parhaus yn y degawdau sydd i ddod i’r wlad hon a’r cymunedau sy’n ei wasanaethu. Nid oes atebion hawdd i broblemau sydd mor ddwfn ag eiddo’r cymunedau sy’n ddibynnol ar ddiwydiant trwm, ond credaf fod y rhaglen a gyflwynais heddiw yn ddechrau newydd a’r mynegiant cryfaf posibl o ffydd yn nyfodol y cymunedau hynny.
I welcome this statement. Of the 1,350 people made redundant at Llanwern a year ago, approximately 125 are still seeking and are unable to find employment. This is 125 too many. The ex-Corus workers, the Assembly and its agencies whose teamwork has ensured that the figure is only 125, which is a considerable achievement, deserve credit and congratulations. However, replacement jobs too often pay less than Corus jobs, and contractors, suppliers and other dependent businesses have also been affected. Therefore, this impressive and substantial regeneration strategy, which includes support and funding for an urban regeneration company, a WDA development at Queensway Meadows in Newport, is needed and therefore welcome. It is important and significant that the five counties in south-east Wales have worked together so well and hopefully will continue to do so in the regeneration forum. I believe that it is now clear how important Newport is to the economy of the whole of south-east Wales, and it is a credit to the five counties that this is recognised. This is a wide, open-minded, realistic and productive outlook, and an impressive strategy, and I welcome it.
Croesawaf y datganiad hwn. O’r 1,350 o bobl a wnaed yn ddi-waith yn Llanwern flwyddyn yn ôl, mae tua 125 yn chwilio o hyd am waith ond heb lwyddiant. Mae hyn yn 125 yn ormod. Mae cyn weithwyr Corus, y Cynulliad a’i asiantaethau y mae ei gwaith tîm wedi sicrhau mai 125 yn unig yw’r ffigur, sy’n gryn gamp, yn haeddu canmoliaeth a llongyfarchiadau. Fodd bynnag, mae’r swyddi a ddaw yn eu lle yn aml yn talu cyflogau is na swyddi Corus, ac effeithiwyd hefyd ar gontractwyr, cyflenwyr a busnesau dibynnol eraill. Felly, mae’r strategaeth adfywio sylweddol a thrawiadol hon, sy’n cynnwys cefnogaeth ac arian ar gyfer cwmni adfywio trefol, datblygiad WDA yn Queensway Meadows, Casnewydd, yn angenrheidiol ac i’w chroesawu. Mae’n bwysig ac yn arwyddocaol fod y pum sir yn y de ddwyrain wedi cydweithio mor dda a gobeithio y gwnânt barhau i wneud yn y fforwm adfywio. Credaf ei bod yn awr yn amlwg pa mor bwysig yw Casnewydd yn economi gyfan y de ddwyrain ac mae’n glod i’r pum sir fod hyn yn cael ei gydnabod. Mae hon yn agwedd eang ei chwmpas, agored, realistig a chynhyrchiol, ac yn strategaeth drawiadol ac yr wyf yn ei chroesawu.
However, can you assure me that you will continue to press for clarification of Gordon Brown’s statement on fiscal advantages for urban regeneration companies seeking maximisation of those advantages? Can you also confirm that the passenger rail link from Ebbw Vale to Cardiff will be further extended to Newport, and that the Assembly Government will press for the signal box difficulties involved to be overcome as soon as possible? Finally, in welcoming the emphasis on the importance of manufacturing to Wales, and the importance of the steel industry within that, can you confirm that you and your officials will continue to keep in close touch with Corus to ensure that the remaining steel industry in Llanwern, and Wales as a whole, and the contractor, supplier and other dependent jobs are safeguarded and retained?
Fodd bynnag, a ellwch fy sicrhau y gwnewch barhau i wasgu am eglurhad ar ddatganiad Gordon Brown ar y manteision ariannol i gwmnïau adfywio sydd yn ceisio manteisio i’r eithaf ar y manteision hynny? A ellwch gadarnhau bod y cyswllt rheilffordd newydd i deithwyr o Lynebwy i Gaerdydd yn cael ei hymestyn ymhellach i Gasnewydd, ac y bydd Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn dwyn pwysau i oresgyn y trafferthion bocs signalau sydd ynghlwm wrth hyn cyn gynted â phosibl. I gloi, wrth groesawu’r pwyslais ar bwysigrwydd gweithgynhyrchu i Gymru, a phwysigrwydd y diwydiant dur oddi mewn i hynny, a ellwch gadarnhau y byddwch chi a’ch swyddogion yn parhau i gadw mewn cysylltiad agos â Corus i sicrhau bod y gweddill o’r diwydiant dur yn Llanwern, a Chymru yn ei chyfanrwydd, a swyddi’r contractwyr, cyflenwyr a’r swyddi dibynnol eraill yn cael eu diogelu a’u cadw?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 50
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 50
You have made some important points. I will deal with them in reverse order. On the finishing end at Llanwern, we raised this issue yesterday with Tony Pedder and Mark Carr. They said that after the initial set-up period of transferring the feed stock from the Llanwern blast furnace and steel plant to Lackenby, the process was now running well. There is reliable railway provision through English Welsh and Scottish Railway to transport the slab to Llanwern for rolling at the finishing end, and that was also going well. Therefore, they did not see this as a threat to the future of the finishing end at Llanwern, which I found comforting. However, the bad news is that the real problems are not connected to the changes that they made in February, but to the fact that there may not be enough UK customers to warrant finishing mills at Port Talbot, Llanwern, Lackenby, Shotton and so on. With a continuing decline in areas such as manufacturing and packaging, to whom can you sell? There is the continued problem of making profit by exporting steel, and, in essence, the decision they made a year ago was to stop exporting from the UK because you cannot make money from this while the pound and the euro are performing as they are at present.
Gwnaethoch rai pwyntiau pwysig. Deliaf â hwy tuag yn ôl. Ynglŷn â’r pen terfynu yn Llanwern, codwyd y mater hwn gennym ddoe gyda Tony Pedder a Mark Carr. Dywedasant hwy ar ôl y cyfnod sefydlu cyntaf o drosglwyddo’r stoc fwydo o ffwrnais chwyth a gwaith dur Llanwern i Lackenby, bod y broses yn awr yn gweithio’n dda. Mae darpariaeth reilffyrdd ddibynadwy drwy English Welsh and Scottish Railway i gludo’r slab i Lanwern i’w rowlio ar y pen terfynu, a bod hwnnw hefyd yn mynd yn dda. Felly, ni welsent hyn fel bygythiad i ben terfynu Llanwern, rhywbeth a roddodd gysur i mi. Fodd bynnag, y newyddion gwael yw nad yw’r problemau gwirioneddol yn gysylltiedig â’r newidiadau a wnaethant ym mis Chwefror, ond â’r ffaith na fydd digon o gwsmeriaid efallai yn y DU i gyfiawnhau melinau terfynu yn Port Talbot, Llanwern, Lackenby, Shotton ac yn y blaen. Gyda dirywiad parhaus mewn meysydd fel cynhyrchu a phacio, i bwy y gallwch werthu? Mae’r broblem barhaus o wneud elw drwy allforio dur, ac, yn ei hanfod, y penderfyniad a wnaed ganddynt flwyddyn yn ôl oedd atal allforio o’r DU gan na allwch wneud arian o hyn tra bod y bunt a’r euro yn perfformio fel ag y maent ar hyn o bryd.
On Gordon Brown and the question of operating aids, this is significant. We are awaiting the budget with interest. We know that it will be delayed until mid April for obvious personal reasons relating to Gordon Brown and his family, and because Easter is early this year. However, we hope that it will give an indication of the tax arrangements, because that will be critical to the success of an urban regeneration company in securing private investment where it is needed.
O ran Gordon Brown a chwestiwn cymhorthion gweithredu, mae hyn yn arwyddocaol. Yr ydym yn disgwyl y gyllideb gyda diddordeb. Gwyddom y caiff ei gohirio hyd ganol Ebrill am resymau personol amlwg yn ymwneud â Gordon Brown a’i deulu, ac oherwydd bod y Pasg yn gynnar eleni. Fodd bynnag, gobeithiwn y bydd yn rhoi rhyw arwydd o’r trefniadau ar gyfer trethi, oherwydd bydd hynny’n hollbwysig i lwyddiant y cwmni adfywio trefol i sicrhau buddsoddi preifat lle mae ei angen.
We are encouraged by how people have found jobs. However, the bad part of that—in the sense that workers must accept jobs at pay rates that are anything up to half of what they previously earned at Corus—is that it means much less spending power in the community. They get new jobs, because there are jobs available in the economy. However, it is significant that the Newport employment exchange area is the only one in Wales where unemployment rose over the last year. That is what you would expect but, nevertheless, it is sad news for Newport. The unemployment rate there rose from 3.2 per cent to 3.3 per cent over the last year. Unemployment fell in every other employment exchange or local authority area in Wales over that year. There is an ability to get jobs, but there are no jobs paying Corus-type wages available in Newport.
Fe’n calonogir gan y nifer o bobl sydd wedi llwyddo i ddod o hyd i swyddi. Fodd bynnag, y peth gwael ynglŷn â hynny—yn yr ystyr bod gweithwyr yn gorfod derbyn swyddi ar gyflogau sydd yn unrhyw beth hyd at hanner beth yr oeddent yn ei ennill cyn hynny yn Corus—yw ei fod yn golygu bod ganddynt lawer llai o allu gwario yn y gymuned. Maent yn dod o hyd i swyddi oherwydd bod swyddi ar gael yn yr economi. Fodd bynnag, mae’n arwyddocaol mai ardal swyddfa gyflogaeth Casnewydd yw’r unig un yng Nghymru lle y cododd diweithdra yn ystod y flwyddyn ddiwethaf. Dyna beth fyddai rhywun yn ei ddisgwyl, ond, serch hynny, mae’n newyddion trist i Gasnewydd. Cododd y raddfa ddiweithdra o 3.2 y cant i 3.3 y cant yn ystod y flwyddyn diwethaf. Gostyngodd diweithdra ym mhob ardal swyddfa gyflogaeth neu awdurdod lleol arall yng Nghymru yn ystod y flwyddyn honno. Y mae y gallu yno i gael swyddi, ond nid oes swyddi sy’n talu cyflogau tebyg i Corus ar gael yng Nghasnewydd.
Do you remember the warnings a year ago that, although the Corus announcement was the worst single blow to our economy, the sum of smaller job losses could be equally serious? We welcome the fact that you report job gains and losses every fortnight, and I am sure that you watch the balance. Therefore, will you confirm that, over the past year, in Newport, Torfaen, Blaenau Gwent, Caerphilly and Monmouth local authority areas, 800 new jobs were announced and 1,000 jobs were promised for the future, but there were over 3,000 actual job losses in the manufacturing industry in addition to those at Corus? Those losses occurred in firms such as GE Aircraft Engines, Alcan and Exide. Job losses were also announced at Cray Valley Products yesterday and at AvestaPolarit in Panteg today, and most serious of all were the job losses at ESM. Will you also confirm a similar problem near Shotton and Bryngwyn, with losses in high-tech firms, such as Corning Optical Fibres and 3M? I noticed that you omitted a sentence that was included in your advance statement, which stated that job losses match job gains, so will you now accept the need for regional targets in your economic strategy?
A gofiwch y rhybuddion llynedd, sef, er mai cyhoeddiad Corus oedd yr ergyd unigol waethaf i’n heconomi, gallai swm y colledion swyddi llai fod yr un mor ddifrifol? Croesawn y ffaith eich bod yn sôn am ennill a cholli swyddi yn bythefnosol, ac yr wyf yn sicr eich bod yn gwylio’r balans. Felly, a wnewch gadarnhau fod 800 o swyddi newydd wedi eu cyhoeddi a 1,000 o swyddi wedi eu haddo i’r dyfodol, yn ardaloedd llywodraeth leol Casnewydd, Tor-faen, Blaenau Gwent, Caerffili a Mynwy yn ystod dros y flwyddyn diwethaf, ond bod 3,000 o swyddi wedi’u colli yn y diwydiant gweithgynhyrchu yn ychwanegol at rai Corus? Bu’r colledion hyn mewn cwmnïau megis GE Aircraft Engines, Alcan ac Exide. Cyhoeddwyd bod swyddi wedi eu colli hefyd yn Cray Valley Products ddoe ac yn AvestaPolarit ym Mhanteg heddiw, a’r mwyaf difrifol o’r cwbl fu’r swyddi a gollwyd yn ESM. A wnewch gadarnhau problem debyg ger Shotton a Bryngwyn, gyda cholledion mewn cwmnïau uwch dechnoleg megis Corning Oprical Fibres a 3M? Sylwais i chi hepgor brawddeg a gafodd ei chynnwys yn eich blaen ddatganiad, a nododd fod y swyddi a gollwyd yn cyfateb i’r swyddi a enillwyd, felly a wnewch dderbyn yr angen am dargedau rhanbarthol yn eich strategaeth economaidd yn awr?
Will you explain how Treasury policy has caused many of these job losses? I would like you to clarify and deplore the fact that the Treasury only put £8 million towards the regeneration. The sum of £8 million came from Europe, and £76 million came from our core budget, from underspends in health and education. Can you create shame in the Treasury and persuade it at least to be more willing to be creative in giving us operating aids and helping such projects as the urban regeneration?
A eglurwch sut y mae polisi’r Trysorlys wedi achosi i lawer o’r swyddi hyn gael eu colli? Byddwn yn dymuno i chi egluro a difrïo’r ffaith mai £8 miliwn yn unig a roddodd y Trysorlys tuag at adfywio. Daeth y swm o £8 miliwn o Ewrop a daeth £76 miliwn o’n cyllideb graidd, o danwariant mewn iechyd ac addysg. A ellwch greu cywilydd yn y Trysorlys a’i berswadio o leiaf i fod yn fwy parod i fod yn greadigol drwy roi cymhorthion gweithredu i ni a helpu prosiectau megis yr adfywio trefol.
On communications, we very much welcome news of progress on the railway. However, are you aware that the earlier report suggested that at least £30 million—not £7 million—is required to provide a full, modern passenger service from Ebbw Vale to Cardiff? Do you accept that, if we had our fair 5 per cent share of the £70 billion UK investment in railways, we would announce a £7 million project every week of the year, whether we were in session or recess? Do you accept that Ebbw Vale deserves far greater investment in railways than 5 per cent of one week’s UK investment?
O ran cysylltiadau, croesawn yn galonnog y newyddion am y cynnydd ar y rheilffyrdd. Fodd bynnag, a ydych yn ymwybodol bod adroddiad cynharach wedi awgrymu bod angen o leiaf £30 miliwn—nid £7 miliwn—i ddarparu gwasanaeth llawn, modern i deithwyr o Lynebwy i Gaerdydd? A dderbyniwch, pe baem yn cael ein cyfran deg o 5 y cant o’r £70 biliwn o’r buddsoddiad yn rheilffyrdd y DU, byddem yn cyhoeddi prosiect £7 miliwn bob wythnos o’r flwyddyn, pa un a fyddem mewn sesiwn neu doriad? A dderbyniwch fod Glynebwy yn haeddu buddsoddiad llawer iawn mwy na’r 5 y cant o fuddsoddiad y DU mewn un wythnos?
I welcome the priority given to Blaenau Gwent in broadband communications. That was one of the main points of my election campaign, although I think that perhaps people did not know what I was talking about. However, will you confirm that your intention goes far beyond the previous plan announced by your Minister with responsibility for information technology, and will provide an asymmetric digital subscriber line to all parts of the county and to all areas that are suffering economic blows? Ebbw Vale’s problems did not start a year ago; many of them have existed for at least three years. Although we welcome many elements in this package, there is not the sense of urgency, and certainly not the budget that we require to tackle this problem.
Croesawaf y flaenoriaeth a roddir i Flaenau Gwent mewn cysylltiadau band llydan. Dyna oedd un o brif bwyntiau fy ymgyrch etholiadol, er y credaf efallai nad oedd pobl yn deall am beth yr oeddwn yn sôn. Fodd bynnag, a wnewch gadarnhau fod eich bwriad yn mynd yn bell y tu hwnt i’r cynllun blaenorol a gyhoeddwyd gan eich Gweinidog sydd â chyfrifoldeb dros dechnoleg gwybodaeth, ac y bydd yn darparu llinell danysgrifio ddigidol anghymesur i bob rhan o’r sir ac i bob ardal sy’n dioddef ergydion economaidd? Nid blwyddyn yn ôl y dechreuodd problemau Glynebwy; mae llawer ohonynt wedi bodoli am o leiaf tair blynedd. Er ein bod yn croesawu sawl elfen o’r pecyn hwn, nid oes yr ymdeimlad o frys, ac yn sicr nid oes gennym y gyllideb sydd ei hangen i fynd i’r afael â’r broblem hon.
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 53
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 53
I note what you said about ICT, the election campaign and people not understanding what you said. You are not the first politician to claim that the electorate was unworthy of you and your campaign.
Nodaf yr hyn a ddywedwyd gennych am TGCh, yr ymgyrch etholiadol a phobl heb ddeall yr hyn a ddywedwyd gennych. Nid chi yw’r gwleidydd cyntaf i hawlio nad oedd yr etholwyr yn deilwng ohonoch chi a’ch ymgyrch.
It is important that we try to get ICT into the heads of the Valleys area. We expect 2002 to be an exciting year for bringing ICT to Blaenau Gwent and elsewhere in the heads of the Valleys. As you will be aware, Phil, there is an imbalance because huge amounts of fibre optic cable have been laid in Cardiff bay, but many people assume that it is wrong to lay it in industrial areas because of the nature of the businesses there.
Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn ceisio sicrhau TGCh yn ardal blaenau’r Cymoedd. Disgwyliwn i 2002 fod yn flwyddyn gyffrous o ran dod â TGCh i Flaenau Gwent a lleoedd eraill ym mlaenau’r Cymoedd. Fel y gwyddoch, Phil, mae anghydbwysedd oherwydd gosodwyd symiau anferth o geblau ffeibr optig ym mae Caerdydd, ond mae llawer yn tybio ei bod yn gamgymeriad i’w gosod mewn ardaloedd diwydiannol oherwydd natur y busnesau sydd yno.
I am glad that you mentioned the railway because John Griffiths asked a question about it and I forgot to answer. We must accept that to be able to lay on the service to Cardiff early and cheaply is a bonus. Railtrack told us that it would take a minimum of eight years to open the railway at a cost of £30 million, and that it would involve re-signalling the stretch between Ebbw junction and Newport station. However, Railtrack then said that if we extended the service to Cardiff, we would not encounter the re-signalling problems and it could be undertaken cheaply and early and open in around three years. Therefore, we have opted for that, which is a big bonus. That does not mean that we do not want to re-open the service to Newport. I accept what you and John say that you instinctively think of the service in terms of connecting Ebbw Vale with Newport, and it was originally the subject of discussion because that is the way the river Ebbw flows. However, we hit this huge technical barrier that Railtrack said was insoluble. Rather than saying that we did not want to provide a service unless it connected with Newport, we have opted for this easy and early option, which will widen job choice for people throughout the Ebbw valley to Ebbw junction and Cardiff.
Yr wyf yn falch ichi sôn am y rheilffordd oherwydd gofynnodd John Griffiths gwestiwn ynglŷn â hynny ac anghofiais ei ateb. Rhaid inni dderbyn bod gallu sefydlu gwasanaeth i Gaerdydd yn gynnar ac yn rhad yn fonws. Dywedodd Railtrack wrthym y byddai’n cymryd wyth mlynedd o leiaf i agor y rheilffordd ar gost o £30 miliwn, ac y byddai’n golygu ailosod signalau ar y rhan rhwng cyffordd Ebwy a gorsaf Casnewydd. Fodd bynnag, dywedodd Railtrack wedyn, pe baem yn ymestyn y gwasanaeth i Gaerdydd, ni fyddem yn dod ar draws y problemau o ran ailosod signalau ac y gellid ei wneud yn rhad ac yn gynnar a’i hagor ymhen tua tair blynedd. Felly yr ydym wedi dewis hynny, sydd yn fonws mawr. Nid yw hynny’n golygu nad ydym yn awyddus i ailagor y gwasanaeth i Gasnewydd. Derbyniaf yr hyn a ddywed John a chithau eich bod yn reddfol yn meddwl am y gwasanaeth fel un sy’n cysylltu Glynebwy â Chasnewydd, ac yr oedd hynny’n wreiddiol yn destun trafodaeth oherwydd dyna sut y mae afon Ebwy’n llifo. Fodd bynnag, daethom ar draws rhwystr technegol sydd, yn ôl Railtrack, yn amhosibl i’w oresgyn. Yn hytrach na dweud nad oeddem am gael gwasanaeth os nad oedd yn cysylltu â Chasnewydd, yr ydym wedi dewis yr opsiwn hawdd a chynnar hwn, a fydd yn ehangu’r dewis o swyddi i bobl ar hyd cwm Ebwy i gyffordd Ebwy a Chaerdydd.
You mentioned operating aids. I will give you the same answer. We are interested in this area. The urban regeneration company operating aids are crucial. We look forward to the budget announcement, and continue to press the Treasury on this issue.
Sonioch am gymhorthion gweithredu. Rhoddaf yr un ateb i chi. Mae gennym ddiddordeb yn y maes hwn. Mae cymhorthion gweithredu y cwmni adfywio trefol yn hollbwysig. Edrychwn ymlaen at gyhoeddiad y gyllideb, ac yr ydym yn parhau i bwyso ar y Trysorlys ar y mater hwn.
Finally, on the adding up of job losses in the affected areas, we have discussed this in the Economic Development Committee. I did not say anything different to you. I am not trying to deny that if you add up all the job losses in small and medium-sized businesses, you will reach similar figures. However, when you consider the impact of job losses on unemployment levels as employment increases, you tend to find that you are not capturing more than 20 per cent of the shifts in employment. That was the view expressed at the Economic Development Committee by Mike Phelps, our chief economic adviser. However well you calculate the statistics, you will probably not count more than 20 per cent of the shifts in employment because you cannot count the significant shifts—which relate to one or two employees losing jobs in the small micro-businesses. If many of those businesses employ one or two additional employees, then unemployment will decrease. If they get rid of those one or two employees, then unemployment will increase. That is what has been happening in the Welsh economy over the last year.
I gloi, ar fater cyfrif y colledion swyddi yn yr ardaloedd yr effeithiwyd arnynt, yr ydym wedi trafod hyn yn y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd. Ni ddywedais ddim gwahanol i chithau. Nid wyf yn ceisio gwadu, os cyfunwch yr holl golledion swyddi yn y busnesau bach a chanolig, y byddwch yn cael ffigurau tebyg. Fodd bynnag, pan ystyriwch yr effaith a gaiff colledion swyddi ar lefelau diweithdra wrth i gyflogaeth gynyddu, tueddwch i weld nad ydych yn dal mwy na 20 y cant o’r symudiadau mewn cyflogaeth. Dyna’r farn a fynegwyd yn y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd gan Mike Phelps, ein prif ymgynghorydd economaidd. Waeth pa mor dda y mesurwch yr ystadegau, mae’n debyg na chyfrifwch fwy na 20 y cant o’r symudiadau mewn cyflogaeth oherwydd ni allwch gyfrif symudiadau arwyddocaol—sy’n gysylltiedig ag un neu ddau o weithwyr yn colli’u swyddi mewn busnesau bach. Pe bai llawer o’r busnesau hynny yn cyflogi un neu ddau o weithwyr ychwanegol, byddai diweithdra’n gostwng. Os cânt wared ar yr un neu ddau hynny, wedyn mae diweithdra’n cynyddu. Dyna beth sydd wedi bod yn digwydd yn economi Cymru yn ystod y flwyddyn ddiwethaf.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 55
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 55
Due to the importance of this statement and the extent of constituency and regional interest, I will extend the time for questions on it so that Members who have indicated that they wish to ask a question can do so.
Oherwydd pwysigrwydd y datganiad hwn a maint y diddordeb etholaethol a rhanbarthol, byddaf yn ymestyn yr amser ar gyfer cwestiynau ar y pwnc fel y gall yr Aelodau sydd wedi mynegi eu bod yn dymuno gofyn cwestiwn wneud hynny.
I thank the First Minister for keeping faith today with a promise that he made to steel closure areas last year in Ebbw Vale, Newport, Shotton and the little place called Bryngwyn. Sadly, some of us did not know where that was during our last debate on this matter; it is in Edwina Hart’s constituency. She will not be speaking on this today, but she has worked hard with the workforce and the community to make a difference.
Diolchaf i’r Prif Weinidog am gadw’i air heddiw gydag addewid a wnaeth y llynedd i’r ardaloedd lle mae gweithfeydd dur wedi cau yng Nglynebwy, Casnewydd, Shotton a’r lle bach hwnnw o’r enw Bryngwyn. Yn anffodus, ni wyddai rhai ble yr oedd y lle hwnnw yn ystod ein dadl ddiwethaf ar y mater; mae’n rhan o etholaeth Edwina Hart. Ni fydd hithau’n siarad ar hyn heddiw, ond mae wedi gweithio’n galed gyda’r gweithlu a’r gymuned i wneud gwahaniaeth.
Ebbw Vale, Blaenau Gwent, is the test for the Assembly because if we do not change things, then we will have failed. The Government of Wales has already made major strides in my constituency to tackle deprivation and I am grateful for that. My area has high unemployment, lack of access, social exclusion and deprivation. I am delighted with today’s announcement that an aid package of around £20 million will be channelled toward Blaenau Gwent at the beginning of the regeneration measures.
Glynebwy, Blaenau Gwent yw’r prawf i’r Cynulliad oherwydd os na wnawn ni newid pethau, yna byddwn wedi methu. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru eisoes wedi cymryd llawer o gamau bras yn fy etholaeth i fynd i’r afael ag amddifadedd ac yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am hynny. Mae gan fy ardal ddiweithdra uchel, diffyg hygyrchedd, allgáu cymdeithasol ac amddifadedd. Yr wyf wrth fy modd gyda’r cyhoeddiad heddiw y caiff pecyn cymorth o tua £20 miliwn ei sianelu i gyfeiriad Blaenau Gwent ar ddechrau’r camau adfywio.
As the First Minister said, complacency is not an option. In July, with the closure of the Ebbw Vale works, 450 people will be out of work, and almost another 200 will be added when spin-off jobs are lost. We have not had much success in finding new jobs for people who have already lost their jobs. I am under no misapprehension; it will probably get worse before it gets better. It could be three to five years before the situation improves. Those factories and the infrastructure have been given a commitment today. Decontamination will take time. The information and communications technology network—to which Phil Williams referred and which is being rolled out in Blaenau Gwent, the first in south-east Wales—is vital. It gives hope to people in a deprived community and tells them that they are also part of the future revolution.
Fel y dywedodd y Prif Weinidog nid yw ymfodloni yn opsiwn. Ym mis Gorffennaf, pan fydd gwaith Glynebwy yn cau, bydd 450 o bobl yn ddi-waith, ac ychwanegir bron i 200 pan gollir swyddi is-gontractwyr. Ni chawsom fawr o lwyddiant wrth ddod o hyd i swyddi newydd i bobl sydd wedi colli eu swyddi’n barod. Nid wyf yn twyllo fy hunan; mae’n debyg yr aiff hi’n waeth cyn y gwnaiff wella. Efallai y cymer hi dair i bum mlynedd cyn y bydd y sefyllfa’n gwella. Rhoddwyd ymrwymiad heddiw i’r ffatrïoedd a’r seilwaith. Bydd diheintio yn golygu amser. Mae’r rhwydwaith technoleg gwybodaeth a chyfathrebu—y cyfeiriodd Phil Williams ato ac sydd yn cael ei gyflwyno ym Mlaenau Gwent, y cyntaf yn y de ddwyrain—yn hollbwysig. Mae’n rhoi gobaith i bobl mewn cymuned ddifreintiedig ac yn dweud wrthynt eu bod hwythau hefyd yn rhan o chwyldro’r dyfodol.
The one tangible improvement that this announcement will mean to the people of Blaenau Gwent is the return of the passenger rail service after 42 years. It could only have been achieved through the Labour Party’s positive dealings. Whatever anyone says, rejoice in it. It is the most positive announcement heard for many years in the Valleys where I live. My local paper, Gwent Gazette, with its ‘back on track’ campaign, the local authority and I have been campaigning for 10 years. Tonight, we will celebrate this important part of the announcement. It is a major breakthrough. It allows people a rapid and modern public transport system for economic, educational and social opportunities, which we did not have as a community locked in for so many years.
Yr un newid gweladwy y bydd y cyhoeddiad hwn yn ei olygu i bobl Blaenau Gwent yw y bydd y gwasanaeth rheilffordd i deithwyr yn dychwelyd ar ôl 42 o flynyddoedd. Dim ond drwy fargeinio cadarnhaol y Blaid Lafur y gellid bod wedi cyflawni hyn. Beth bynnag a ddywed unrhyw un arall, gorfoleddwch ynddo. Dyma’r cyhoeddiad mwyaf cadarnhaol a glywyd ers sawl blwyddyn yn y Cymoedd lle yr wyf i’n byw. Mae fy mhapur lleol, y Gwent Gazette, gyda’i ymgyrch ‘back on track’, yr awdurdod lleol a minnau wedi bod yn ymgyrchu ers 10 mlynedd. Heno, byddwn yn dathlu y rhan bwysig hon o’r cyhoeddiad. Mae’n gamp enfawr. Mae’n rhoi system trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus gyflym a modern i bobl ar gyfer cyfleoedd economaidd, addysgol a chymdeithasol, na fu gennym fel cymuned gaeëdig am gynifer o flynyddoedd.
I place on record my thanks to my friend, the Minister for Environment, Sue Essex. It is her enlightened approach that has provided us with this announcement. I thank her for all that she has done, and I look forward to implementation. It is not simply Ebbw Vale; there is a spur for Abertillery and other phases, which I will strongly pursue.
Cofnodaf fy niolch i’m ffrind, Sue Essex, y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd. Ei hymagwedd oleuedig hi sydd wedi rhoi’r cyhoeddiad yma inni. Diolchaf iddi am bopeth a wnaeth, ac edrychaf ymlaen at ei weld yn cael ei weithredu. Nid Glynebwy yn unig ydyw: mae cangen i Abertyleri a lleoedd eraill y byddaf yn eu dilyn yn gadarn.
We have a chance to change the future of people in deprived communities. As far as I am concerned, the crusade continues. We are fighting for a future for the next generation, strengthened by the support of all Assembly Members. I am grateful for that support, and for the lead of the Government of Wales. The regeneration—
Mae gennym gyfle i newid dyfodol pobl mewn cymunedau difreintiedig. O’m rhan i mae’r frwydr yn parhau. Yr ydym yn ymladd am ddyfodol i’r genhedlaeth nesaf, a gryfhawyd drwy gefnogaeth holl Aelodau’r Cynulliad. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am y gefnogaeth honno ac am arweiniad Llywodraeth Cymru. Mae’r adfywiad—
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 56
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 56
Order. Peter, I have allowed you much latitude because of your interest, but I would welcome a question or two, just to round off.
Trefn. Peter, yr wyf wedi rhoi cymaint â fedrwn o ystwythder i chi oherwydd eich diddordeb, ond byddai’n dda gennyf gael cwestiwn neu ddau i gloi pethau’n ddestlus.
I am grateful, Llywydd, as you recognise from your experience that there are people outside watching today, because this is their future. I am grateful for your latitude.
Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar, Lywydd, oherwydd yr ydych yn cydnabod ar sail eich profiad bod pobl o’r tu allan yn gwylio heddiw, oherwydd eu dyfodol hwy yw hyn. Diolch i chi am roi rhwydd hynt i mi.
In conclusion, will the First Minister make sure that he does all that he can to provide quality jobs for that area? That is what is needed. We can then see the opportunities, perhaps with his subtle help in the direction of industry. That must be considered when talking about places locked 40 miles away from the coast. Will he also consider the provision of an enterprise zone, which will have great benefits for my community? I wrote to him about that last year, and many people in Blaenau Gwent would welcome such a zone. I am grateful for the announcement.
I gloi, a wnaiff y Prif Weinidog sicrhau y gwnaiff bopeth yn ei allu i ddarparu swyddi o safon i’r ardal honno? Dyna beth sydd ei angen. Yna byddwn yn gweld y cyfleoedd, efallai gyda’i help cynnil ef i gyfeiriad diwydiant. Rhaid i hynny gael ei ystyried wrth sôn am leoedd caeëdig 40 milltir o’r arfordir. A wnaiff hefyd ystyried darparu ardal fenter a fydd yn rhoi manteision mawr i’m cymuned? Ysgrifennais ato ynglŷn â hyn y llynedd, a byddai llawer o bobl ym Mlaenau Gwent yn croesawu ardal o’r fath. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am y cyhoeddiad.
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 57
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 57
I also thank you, Peter, for your positive response. It must still be a difficult time for the heart of your constituency, with at least half of the redundancies yet to come this summer. That will be a symbolic day, because it was that community, based on coal and steel, that started the industrialisation of the entire world some 250 years ago. The last coal mine closed a long time ago, and this last connection with the steel and tinplate industry will close this summer.
Diolchaf ichi hefyd, Peter, am eich ymateb cadarnhaol. Rhaid ei bod yn gyfnod anodd i’ch etholaeth chi o hyd, gan na weithredir o leiaf hanner y diswyddiadau tan yr haf. Bydd yn ddiwrnod symbolaidd, gan mai’r gymuned honno, yn seiliedig ar lo a dur, a ddechreuodd y broses o ddiwydiannu’r byd cyfan tua 250 o flynyddoedd yn ôl. Caeodd y pwll glo olaf amser maith yn ôl, a bydd y cysylltiad olaf hwn â’r diwydiant dur a thunplat yn cau yn yr haf.
I understand how huge an emotional blow that will be, and how difficult it is to raise morale in such circumstances, but if anybody can do it, it is you, Peter. That is why I am grateful for your positive response. These four approaches of investment—in industrial infrastructure; education and training; ICT, and in transport access, to Cardiff initially, and later to Newport—are key to creating a new future, when the traditional industries of Ebbw Vale are about to disappear.
Deallaf pa mor fawr fydd yr ergyd emosiynol honno, a pha mor anodd ydyw i godi ysbryd o dan amgylchiadau o’r fath, ond os gall unrhyw un wneud hynny, chi yw hwnnw, Peter. Dyma pam yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am eich ymateb cadarnhaol. Mae’r pedair ymagwedd hon o ran buddsoddi—yn y seilwaith diwydiannol; addysg ac hyfforddiant; TGCh, ac mewn cysylltiadau trafnidiaeth, i Gaerdydd yn y lle cyntaf, ac i Gasnewydd yn ddiweddarach—yn rhan allweddol o’r broses o greu dyfodol newydd, pan fo diwydiannau traddodiadol Glynebwy ar fin diflannu.
We have limited experience of enterprise zones in Wales; we only have one, in Swansea. Those established in the UK were not regarded as a great success because they were really property development zones. They did not produce much enterprise but, rather, property development took advantage of the tax breaks that were provided. That is why we tend to use operating aids, which provide the enterprise element of the enterprise zone without the property development element’s domination. That was the experience of most enterprise zones established 20 years ago, introduced by Geoffrey Howe as Chancellor of the Exchequer. Therefore, I hope that we reap the benefits of enterprise zones when Gordon Brown announces his budget in April. I hope that there will be good news on that front.
Mae gennym brofiad cyfyngedig o ardaloedd menter yng Nghymru; dim ond un ohonynt sydd gennym, yn Abertawe. Nid ystyriwyd y rhai a sefydlwyd yn y DU yn llwyddiant mawr gan mai ardaloedd datblygu eiddo oeddent mewn gwirionedd. Ni chynhyrchwyd llawer o fenter ond, yn hytrach, manteisiodd y datblygiadau eiddo ar y manteision treth a gynigiwyd. Dyna pam y tueddwn i ddefnyddio cymhorthion gweithredu, sy’n darparu elfen fenter yr ardal fenter heb i’r elfen datblygu eiddo dra-arglwyddiaethu. Dyna brofiad rhan fwyaf yr ardaloedd menter a sefydlwyd 20 mlynedd yn ôl, a gyflwynwyd gan Geoffrey Howe pan oedd yn Ganghellor y Trysorlys. Felly, gobeithiaf y cawn fudd o’r ardaloedd menter pan gyhoedda Gordon Brown ei gyllideb yn Ebrill. Gobeithiaf y cawn newyddion da yn hynny o beth.
We recognise your commitment to this issue and are grateful to you for this statement, which shows a way forward in light of particular problems in this area.
Cydnabyddwn eich ymrwymiad i’r mater hwn ac yr ydym yn ddiolchgar ichi am y datganiad hwn, a ddengys ffordd ymlaen yng ngoleuni’r problemau penodol yn y maes hwn.
I remind you that on 5 February 2001, I asked you about setting up a skills audit. I do not see anything in the statement on that, although Jane Davidson has made reasonable statements on this issue. This particular factor is important in recognising what training provision is required, which I ask you to consider. People made redundant from these factories have already applied for other jobs. They have been trained in certain skills. However, they do not have the experience and this makes them particularly disadvantaged when applying for jobs. Will you consider innovative job sharing so that people can apply for jobs, particularly in Peter Law’s area where opportunities do not exist? Many people apply for each job. They do not have experience or training to offer and are at an immediate disadvantage.
Fe’ch atgoffaf imi ofyn ichi ar 5 Chwefror 2001 ynglŷn â sefydlu archwiliad sgiliau. Ni welaf ddim yn y datganiad o ran hynny, er bod Jane Davidson wedi gwneud datganiadau rhesymol ar y mater hwn. Mae’r ffactor penodol hwn yn bwysig wrth gydnabod pa ddarpariaeth sydd ei hangen o ran hyfforddiant, y gofynnaf ichi ei ystyried. Mae’r bobl a gollodd swyddi yn y ffatrïoedd hyn eisoes wedi gwneud cais am swyddi eraill. Maent wedi cael hyfforddiant mewn sgiliau penodol. Fodd bynnag, nid oes profiad ganddynt a golyga hyn eu bod o dan anfantais fawr wrth wneud cais am swyddi. A ystyriwch broses rhannu swydd arloesol fel y gall pobl wneud cais am swyddi, yn enwedig yn ardal Peter Law lle nad yw’r cyfleoedd yn bodoli? Mae llawer o bobl yn gwneud cais am bob swydd. Nid oes ganddynt brofiad na hyfforddiant i’w cynnig sy’n eu rhoi o dan anfantais o’r cychwyn cyntaf.
I also welcome your commitment to not letting Corus off the hook, as you put it. We all hope that if Corus has to apply for European community funding that you will publish the amount of money that they receive so that we know that the money is properly spent on trying to renovate an enormous area: the Llanwern steel works alone is 16 square miles.
Croesawaf hefyd eich ymrwymiad i sicrhau nad yw Corus yn dianc yn ddi-gosb, yn eich geiriau chi. Os bydd yn rhaid i Corus wneud cais am arian y Gymuned Ewropeaidd, mae pawb ohonom yn gobeithio y byddwch yn cyhoeddi faint o arian a roddir iddo fel ein bod yn gwybod y caiff yr arian ei wario mewn ffordd briodol i geisio adfywio ardal enfawr: 16 milltir sgwâr yw gwaith dur Llanwern ar ei ben ei hun.
Have you read carefully the report by Lee Shostak from the Shared Intelligence agency, which begins to recognise the geophysical properties that make the upper parts of the Valleys less attractive to industry? You mentioned the development of business and industrial premises, but you know that they are already available. Many have been unlet since they were built. Industries have entered those factories, taken the grant and then disappeared. They have not acted in the best interest of the community or industry. Will you prioritise ensuring that businesses remain in those factories and that they repay the grant if they leave?
A ydych wedi darllen yn ofalus adroddiad Lee Shostak o’r asiantaeth Gwybodaeth a Rennir, sy’n dechrau cydnabod y nodweddion geoffisegol sy’n gwneud rhannau uchaf y Cymoedd yn llai deniadol i ddiwylliant? Bu ichi grybwyll y gwaith o ddatblygu eiddo busnes ac eiddo diwydiannau, ond gwyddoch eu bod eisoes ar gael. Bu llawer ohonynt yn wag ers eu hadeiladu. Mae diwydiannau wedi mynd i’r ffatrïoedd hynny, wedi cymryd y grant ac wedi diflannu. Nid ydynt wedi ymddwyn er budd gorau y gymuned na diwydiant. A wnewch flaenoriaethu sicrhau bod busnesau yn aros yn y ffatrïoedd hynny a’u bod yn ad-dalu’r grant os gadawant?
Finally, I ask for your commitment, which I think you will be able to give, to this continuing problem that will go on for many years to come? Although we welcome the additional transport links, will you make further representations regarding the M4 relief road, which will help unlock the problems that detract many investors from investing in south-east Wales and which will enable us to provide more jobs in this difficult area?
I gloi, gofynnaf am eich ymrwymiad, y credaf y gallwch ei roi, i’r broblem barhaus hon a fydd yn parhau am flynyddoedd lawer? Er ein bod yn croesawu’r cysylltiadau trafnidiaeth ychwanegol, a wnewch sylwadau pellach o ran ffordd liniaru’r M4, a fydd yn helpu i ddatrys y problemau sy’n rhwystro llawer o fuddsoddwyr rhag buddsoddi yn y De Ddwyrain ac a fydd yn ein galluogi i ddarparu rhagor o swyddi yn yr ardal anodd hon?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 59
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 59
As regards the M4 relief road, ensuring that the Brynglas tunnels, which tend to congest for an hour to an hour and a half at morning and evening peak times, do not become a major blockage to investment is at the top of the agenda for Sue Essex, as the Minister responsible for transport, and Robin Shaw, as the director of transport. We have many options, not all of which involve the M4 relief road, to ensure that Brynglas tunnels do not hugely restrict development west of the river Usk in Wales.
O ran ffordd liniaru’r M4, mae sicrhau nad yw tynelau Brynglas, sy’n tueddu i fod yn brysur am tua awr neu awr a hanner yn y bore a’r nos, yn dod yn rhwystr mawr i fuddsoddwyr yn un o’r materion pwysicaf ar agenda Sue Essex, fel y Gweinidog sy’n gyfrifol am drafnidiaeth, ac agenda Robin Shaw, fel y cyfarwyddwr trafnidiaeth. Mae gennym sawl opsiwn, nad yw pob un ohonynt yn cynnwys ffordd liniaru’r M4, i sicrhau nad yw tynelau Brynglas yn cyfyngu i raddau helaeth ar y datblygiadau i’r gorllewin o afon Wysg yng Nghymru.
You made a point about industries that move into units, which are built for them by the Welsh Development Agency, and then leave. I presume that you are referring to the LG plant closure in Newport, which was a sad event. It is an enormous building, built to clean room standards, and cost some £60 million or £70 million to build. We have not been able to find an occupier for the building because of the Korean economy’s huge initial borrowing problems, followed by the collapse of the semi-conductor industry. That is not unique to Wales, the same problems occurred in Scotland over the Hyundai plant. Nothing has happened there either. In some of those cyclical industries, you can have completely different requirements between starting to build a plant and finishing it. We are still hopeful, although it may be a while yet—perhaps 18 months—that the option will be taken up by the new company that succeeds it, the merged LG-Hyundai semi-conductor company. If not, the lease provides means of recovering the plant so that it might be made available to other semi-conductor companies with better commercial prospects.
Gwnaethoch bwynt am ddiwydiannau sy’n symud i unedau a adeiladir iddynt gan Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru, ac wedyn yn gadael. Tybiaf eich bod yn cyfeirio at y gwaith LG yng Nghasnewydd a gaewyd, gan achosi tristwch mawr. Adeilad enfawr ydyw, a adeiladwyd yn unol â safonau ystafelloedd glân, ac a gostiodd tua £60 miliwn neu £70 miliwn i’w adeiladu. Ni allem ddod o hyd i neb i ddefnyddio’r adeilad oherwydd problemau benthyca cychwynnol enfawr economi Corea, ac wedyn methiant y diwydiant lled-ddargludyddion. Nid yw’r broblem honno yn unigryw i Gymru; wynebwyd yr un problemau yn yr Alban ynglŷn â gwaith Hyundai. Ni ddigwyddodd dim yno ychwaith. Mewn rhai o’r diwydiannau cylchol hynny, mae’n bosibl cael gofynion gwahanol iawn rhwng dechrau adeiladu gwaith a’i orffen. Parhawn i obeithio, er efallai y bydd yn rhaid inni aros rywfaint—efallai 18 mis—y caiff yr opsiwn ei dderbyn gan y cwmni newydd sy’n cymryd ei le, sef y cwmni lled-ddargludyddion LG-Hyundai cyfunedig. Os na ddigwydd hynny, mae’r brydles yn darparu modd o adennill y gwaith fel y gallai cwmnïau lled-ddargludyddion eraill sydd â rhagolygon masnachol gwell ei ddefnyddio.
I am not sure about the particular problem that Lee Shostak referred to as geophysical properties in the upper Valleys. We are all familiar with the need for incentives to persuade industry to go to the upper Valleys. I do not think that we need new consultants to tell us something that most of us have known almost since we were on our mothers’ milk. Ensuring that the upper Valleys have diversified economies is important, because we know that we have had distressed areas, assisted areas, development areas—whatever they are called—since the decline of the coal export market started in the 1920s. We have been trying to find new industries to cope with the loss of jobs in the coalfields of north-east and south Wales for the last 80 years. We have one coal mine left. We have one integrated steelworks left, as well as a smaller one in Cardiff, and many steel finishing plants. That is the Welsh problem: how do you diversify the economy to cope with the job losses in the coal, steel and tinplate industries? It has been a problem for governments over the past 75 or so years.
Nid wyf yn siŵr am y broblem benodol y cyfeiriodd Lee Shostak ati fel nodweddion geoffisegol y Cymoedd uchaf. Mae pawb ohonom yn gyfarwydd â’r angen am gymhellion i ddarbwyllo diwydiant i fynd i’r Cymoedd uchaf. Ni chredaf y bydd angen ymgynghorwyr newydd arnom i ddweud rhywbeth wrthym y bu’r rhan fwyaf ohonom yn ymwybodol ohono ers inni fod yn blant. Mae sicrhau bod gan y Cymoedd uchaf economïau amrywiol yn bwysig, gan ein bod yn gwybod bod ardaloedd dirwasgedig, ardaloedd a gynorthwyir, ardaloedd i’w datblygu—beth bynnag y’u gelwir—wedi bodoli ers i ddirywiad y farchnad allforio glo ddechrau yn y 1920au. Buom yn ceisio dod o hyd i ddiwydiannau newydd i ddygymod â’r swyddi a gollwyd ym meysydd glo’r Gogledd Ddwyrain a’r De ers 80 mlynedd. Un pwll glo sydd ar ôl. Un gwaith dur integredig sydd ar ôl, yn ogystal ag un llai yng Nghaerdydd, a llawer o weithfeydd dur terfynu. Dyna broblem Cymru: sut y dylech amrywio’r economi i ddygymod â’r swyddi a gollwyd yn y diwydiannau glo, dur a thunplat? Bu’n broblem i lywodraethau ers tua 75 o flynyddoedd.
I will ask Jane Davidson to write to you about your point about a skills audit. I mentioned in my statement that 750 workers have participated in training to enhance employability and 650 have accessed wider support aimed at removing barriers to getting alternative jobs, which is not, strictly speaking, training. Much has been done on that, but I will ask Jane to write to you about that.
Gofynnaf i Jane Davidson ysgrifennu atoch ynglŷn â’ch pwynt am archwiliad sgiliau. Yn fy natganiad, crybwyllais y ffaith bod 750 o weithwyr wedi cael hyfforddiant i wella eu cyflogadwyedd a bod 650 o weithwyr wedi cael cefnogaeth ehangach, sydd â’r nod o ddileu’r rhwystrau i gael swyddi eraill, nad yw’n hyfforddiant, a bod yn fanwl gywir. Gwnaethpwyd llawer o ran hynny, ond gofynnaf i Jane ysgrifennu atoch ar y mater hwnnw.
Interestingly, in the discussions with Tony Pedder, Mark Carr and Stuart Pettifor yesterday, it was clear that Corus had changed its mind as to what to do with its buildings and sites. It does not now view it as a matter of how much it can get for the buildings; it now wants to work with us to see what is best for the community.
Yn ddiddorol, yn y trafodaethau gyda Tony Pedder, Mark Carr a Stuart Pettifor ddoe, yr oedd yn amlwg bod Corus wedi newid ei feddwl o ran yr hyn a ddylai ddigwydd i’w adeiladau a’i safleoedd. Nid yw bellach yn ystyried y mater o ran yr arian y gallai ei gael am yr adeiladau; mae bellach am gydweithio â ni i weld beth sydd orau i’r gymuned.
Michael German The Leader of the Welsh Liberal Democrat Group spoken in English p. 61
Michael German Arweinydd Grŵp Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 61
I congratulate you, Rhodri, on a great Team Wales approach to this matter. I ask you to pass on those congratulations to all the local authorities and agencies that have worked together so closely to bring this report together. Clearly, UK Government agencies, local government and Assembly agencies have worked hard to put this in place today. The £92 million package should be welcomed, and it is a clear sign from the Assembly Government of its commitment to the communities that have been worst affected.
Fe’ch llongyfarchaf, Rhodri, am ymagwedd Tîm Cymru wych tuag at y mater hwn. Gofynnaf ichi drosglwyddo’r llongyfarchiadau hynny i bob un o’r awdurdodau lleol a’r asiantaethau sydd wedi cydweithio mor agos i lunio’r adroddiad hwn. Mae’n amlwg bod asiantaethau Llywodraeth y DU, llywodraeth leol ac asiantaethau’r Cynulliad wedi gweithio’n galed i roi hyn ar waith heddiw. Dylid croesawu’r pecyn gwerth £92 miliwn, sy’n arwydd clir gan Lywodraeth y Cynulliad o’i hymrwymiad i’r cymunedau yr effeithiwyd fwyaf arnynt.
Three areas that I would like to probe have not been mentioned yet. The first is the urban regeneration corporation in Newport. That is to be welcomed. It is a new way of moving forward in terms of getting public-private partnerships. I hope that it is the first sign in Wales that we can achieve some great ambitions. What progress has been made towards achieving those tax changes, which will be available for people within an urban regeneration corporation, and which were announced by the Chancellor of the Exchequer? Do you agree that this is the ideal time to be campaigning to the Chancellor, before the budget, to get as much operating aid as possible into that URC? Will you also commend it to colleagues in Blaenau Gwent as a route that they might prefer in the future?
Ni chrybwyllwyd eto y tri maes yr hoffwn ymchwilio iddynt. Y maes cyntaf yw’r gorfforaeth adfywio trefol yng Nghasnewydd. Dylid croesawu hynny. Mae’n ffordd newydd o symud ymlaen o ran cael partneriaethau cyhoeddus-preifat. Gobeithiaf mai’r arwydd cyntaf ydyw yng Nghymru y gallwn wireddu uchelgeisiau mawr. Pa gynnydd a wnaethpwyd tuag at gyflawni’r newidiadau treth hynny, a fydd ar gael i bobl o fewn corfforaeth adfywio trefol, ac a gyhoeddwyd gan Ganghellor y Trysorlys? A gytunwch mai dyma’r amser delfrydol i ddwyn pwysau ar y Canghellor, cyn y gyllideb, i sicrhau bod cymaint o gymorth gweithredu â phosibl yn mynd i’r gorfforaeth adfywio trefol? A fyddwch hefyd yn ei chymeradwyo i gydweithwyr ym Mlaenau Gwent fel llwybr a fyddai’n well ganddynt yn y dyfodol o bosibl?
The second area that has not been covered is the social enterprise development fund that you announced this morning. There are many people whose confidence will have been knocked out of them by what Corus has done. That fund will give them an opportunity to be increasingly confident, perhaps to set up their own businesses. Will you expand on the opportunities that it will provide?
Yr ail faes nas trafodwyd yw’r gronfa datblygu menter gymdeithasol a gyhoeddwyd gennych y bore yma. Bydd llawer o bobl wedi colli hyder yn sgîl yr hyn a wnaeth Corus. Bydd y gronfa honno yn rhoi cyfle iddynt fod yn gynyddol hyderus, gan sefydlu eu busnesau eu hunain o bosibl. A ehangwch ar y cyfleoedd a ddarperir ganddi?
Thirdly, the public infrastructure has been touched upon, but people have not yet talked about the extension of the Cwm bypass and the work on the Heads of the Valleys road, which will also provide greater access. Do you see all this as much part of that pattern as trying to make opportunities available in the northern ends of our valleys so that people can look for new work opportunities? Combined with the work done with the social enterprise development fund, it will give us the opportunity to bring together people who want to start up their own businesses.
Yn drydydd, crybwyllwyd y seilwaith cyhoeddus, ond ni chrybwyllwyd eto ehangu ffordd osgoi y Cwm a’r gwaith ar ffordd Blaenau’r Cymoedd, a fydd hefyd yn sicrhau cysylltiadau gwell. A ystyriwch fod yr holl waith hwn gymaint yn rhan o’r patrwm hwnnw ag y mae’r gwaith o geisio sicrhau bod cyfleoedd ar gael ar ben gogleddol ein cymoedd fel y gall pobl chwilio am swyddi newydd? O’i gyfuno â’r gwaith a wnaethpwyd o ran y gronfa datblygu menter gymdeithasol, rhydd gyfle inni ddod â phobl ynghyd sydd am ddechrau eu busnesau eu hunain.
Finally, on research and development, the ESM problem will now be seen in Newport. That will create a big gap in our ability to say that we are the heart of a new ideas economy. Which of these proposals will give us the lead in that work? I endorse all that you have said about not letting Corus off the hook. It should face up to its responsibilities for what it has done to the savage communities, particularly in the northern ends of the Valleys, but also in Newport. There are no instant fixes; you are right in that. This is something that we must mend and fix, rather than the situation that the Assembly would like to see. I hope that the programme that you have brought forward today will bring hope in the short to medium term for those people who have been so damaged by Corus’s actions.
I gloi, o ran ymchwil a datblygu, caiff y broblem gydag ESM ei gweld bellach yng Nghasnewydd. Bydd hynny’n creu bwlch mawr yn ein gallu i ddweud ein bod yn rhan ganolog o economi syniadau newydd. Pa rai o’r cynigion hyn a fydd yn sicrhau ein bod ar y blaen o ran y gwaith hwn? Cymeradwyaf bopeth a ddywedwyd gennych ynglŷn â sicrhau nad yw Corus yn dianc yn ddi-gosb. Ni ddylai osgoi ei gyfrifoldebau am yr hyn a wnaeth i’r cymunedau creulon, yn arbennig ym mhen gogleddol y Cymoedd, ond hefyd yng Nghasnewydd. Nid oes atebion syml; yr ydych yn gywir yn hynny o beth. Dyma rywbeth y mae’n rhaid inni ei ddatrys, yn hytrach na’r sefyllfa yr hoffai’r Cynulliad ei gweld. Gobeithiaf y bydd y rhaglen a gyflwynwyd gennych heddiw yn rhoi gobaith yn y byrdymor i’r tymor canolig i’r bobl hynny y mae gweithredoedd Corus wedi cael effaith mor wael arnynt.
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 62
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 62
I will correct two verbal slip-ups for the record. It is not ‘savage communities’ in the northern areas; I think you meant to say ‘savage blows to the communities.’ Also, it is an ‘urban regeneration company.’ I thought that you were right and that I was wrong for a moment, but I checked, and the ‘c’ in URC stands for company.
Hoffwn gofnodi dau gamgymeriad. Credaf ichi olygu dweud ‘ergydion creulon i’r gymuned’ yn hytrach na ‘chymunedau creulon’ yn yr ardaloedd gogleddol. Hefyd, ‘cwmni adfywio trefol’ ydyw. Yr oeddwn yn credu eich bod chi’n gywir ac fy mod i’n anghywir am funud, ond edrychais i weld, ac mae’r ‘c’ yn URC yn sefyll am ‘company’.
Your point about teamwork is quite right; people respond well in a crisis and we had many crises during 2001: foot and mouth disease in the countryside, and this crisis in the industrial parts of Wales. Local authorities, the Assembly, WDA, ELWa, the workforce and the company have come together to see how we can respond. You cannot produce a silver bullet solution; that is not possible. There is no silver bullet out there. You try to find a solution for the short-term, the medium-term and the long-term problems and that is what we have tried to do over the past 12 months.
Mae eich pwynt am waith tîm yn briodol; mae pobl yn ymateb yn dda mewn argyfwng a chawsom sawl argyfwng yn ystod 2001: clwy’r traed a’r genau yng nghefn gwlad, a’r argyfwng hwn yn rhannau diwydiannol Cymru. Mae awdurdodau lleol, y Cynulliad, y WDA, ELWa, y gweithlu a’r cwmni wedi dod ynghyd i weld sut y gallwn ymateb. Ni ellir creu ateb gwyrthiol; nid yw hynny’n bosibl. Nid oes ateb gwyrthiol ar gael. Ceisiwch ddod o hyd i ateb ar gyfer y problemau byrdymor, tymor canolig a hirdymor a dyna’r hyn yr ydym wedi ceisio ei wneud yn ystod y 12 mis diwethaf.
On the tax changes, they are not yet determined but they should, in principle, benefit the URC in Newport. The Treasury is effecting them and there will be an issue in relation to Europe. The ideas were expounded by our friend, Lord Rogers, in his report to the Government three years ago on how to attract more private investment into areas that seem to be shunned by the private or property development industry by trying to get them to see the tax advantages. We must work out, as must the Treasury, in which way we can adapt that to Newport’s special circumstances where we want to see new jobs paying, if possible, Corus-type wages to build a new future for Newport and its catchment area.
O ran y newidiadau treth, nid ydynt wedi’u pennu eto ond dylent fod o fudd i’r cwmni adfywio trefol yng Nghasnewydd, mewn egwyddor. Mae’r Trysorlys yn eu gweithredu a bydd mater yn codi ynglŷn ag Ewrop. Eglurwyd y syniadau gan ein ffrind, yr Arglwydd Rogers, yn ei adroddiad i’r Llywodraeth dair blynedd yn ôl ar sut i ddenu mwy o fuddsoddwyr preifat i’r ardaloedd hynny yr ymddengys fod y diwydiant preifat neu’r diwydiant datblygu eiddo wedi’u hanwybyddu, drwy geisio sicrhau eu bod yn gweld y manteision o ran trethi. Rhaid i ni, a’r Trysorlys, ystyried ym mha ffordd y gallwn addasu hynny i amgylchiadau cymdeithasol Casnewydd lle yr ydym am weld swyddi newydd sy’n talu cyflogau tebyg i rai Corus, os bydd hynny’n bosibl, i adeiladu dyfodol newydd i Gasnewydd a’i dalgylch.
On the social enterprise funds, you are right, it is an issue of morale. The mechanical side is where you provide more land, another factory or more transport infrastructure. However, you must then consider to what extent communities lose confidence because they have lost the staple industries upon which they have depended for 250 years. It is not a mechanical job; it is a community-rebuilding job and that must occur at a basic level of society. That is where the social development fund is trying to help draw people out of what may be a quite depressed state so that they can start businesses and community businesses and so on. That provides the bedrock upon which other economic activities can take place because people have a positive attitude since they think that they can control their own destiny. They are learning to do that.
O ran y cronfeydd menter cymdeithasol, yr ydych yn gywir, mater o forâl ydyw. Yr ochr fecanyddol yw lle y darparwch fwy o dir, ffatri arall neu seilwaith trafnidiaeth gwell. Fodd bynnag, rhaid ichi ystyried wedyn i ba raddau y mae cymunedau yn colli hyder ar ôl colli’r prif ddiwydiannau y maent wedi dibynnu arnynt ers 250 o flynyddoedd. Nid tasg fecanyddol ydyw; tasg ailadeiladu cymuned ydyw a rhaid i hynny ddigwydd ar lefel sylfaenol y gymdeithas. Dyna lle y mae’r gronfa ddatblygu cymdeithasol yn ceisio helpu i dynnu pobl allan o’r hyn a all fod yn sefyllfa eithaf digalon, fel y gallant ddechrau busnesau a busnesau cymunedol ac ati. Darpara hynny’r sylfaen ar gyfer cyflawni gweithgareddau economaidd eraill oherwydd bod gan bobl ymagwedd gadarnhaol am eu bod o’r farn y gallant reoli eu tynged eu hunain. Maent yn dysgu gwneud hynny.
You also made a point about ESM, which Phil made earlier. That is an important company and negotiations are at a sensitive stage at present. I do not want to say any more as big money is involved and negotiations are taking place as we speak.
Gwnaethoch bwynt am ESM hefyd, a wnaeth Phil yn gynharach. Mae hwnnw’n gwmni pwysig ac mae’r negodiadau wedi cyrraedd cam sensitif ar hyn o bryd. Nid wyf am ddweud rhagor gan fod llawer o arian yn gysylltiedig â hyn ac mae negodiadau yn digwydd wrth inni siarad.
Thank you for your statement, coming as it does a year after Corus’s devastating announcement. It demonstrates that you are alive to the affected communities’ needs and that the Labour-led Assembly Government will continue to keep their needs at the top of the agenda. In Flintshire we are no strangers to, and are well aware of, the devastating impact of major steel closures on communities. We live the consequences of that even today. We have learned many lessons. Will you join with me in recognising, as you said, the positive and proactive approach taken by Flintshire County Council and the agencies in dealing with the consequences of the further job losses in my constituency at Shotton? Will you assure me that we will continue to sustain investment to underpin the growth in Flintshire so that the gains made will continue to benefit all of north Wales? I welcome the £1 million from the alleviation fund, which is no doubt important in that process. I also refer to the positive, constructive and mature role played by the trades union movement throughout. We must recognise, in the face of a hard-nosed, aggressive approach by Corus, that the trades unions were not goaded into taking precipitate action. In fact, they considered seriously how they could contribute to the needs of those communities that continue to be effected by these closures. We should recognise that we have an effective trades union movement in Wales.
Diolch am eich datganiad, a ddaw flwyddyn ar ôl cyhoeddiad trychinebus Corus. Dengys eich bod yn ymwybodol o anghenion y cymunedau yr effeithiwyd arnynt ac y bydd Llywodraeth y Cynulliad o dan arweiniad y Blaid Lafur yn parhau i sicrhau bod eu hanghenion yn un o’r materion pwysicaf ar yr agenda. Yn Sir y Fflint, yr ydym yn ymwybodol iawn o’r effaith drychinebus ar gymunedau pan gaiff llawer o swyddi eu colli yn y diwydiant dur ac yr ydym yn gyfarwydd iawn â’r effaith honno. Yr ydym yn profi canlyniadau hynny hyd yn oed heddiw. Yr ydym wedi dysgu llawer o wersi. A ymunwch â mi wrth gydnabod, fel y dywedwyd gennych, yr ymagwedd gadarnhaol a rhagweithiol a fabwysiadwyd gan Gyngor Sir y Fflint a’r asiantaethau wrth ddelio â chanlyniadau rhagor o ddiswyddiadau yn fy etholaeth yn Shotton? A roddwch sicrwydd imi y parhawn i gynnal buddsoddiadau fel sail i’r cynnydd yn Sir y Fflint fel y bydd yr elw a wnaed yn parhau i fod o fudd i bob rhan o’r Gogledd? Croesawaf y £1 filiwn o’r gronfa leddfu, sy’n ddiau yn bwysig yn y broses honno. Cyfeiriaf hefyd at y rôl gadarnhaol, adeiladol ac aeddfed a chwaraewyd gan yr undebau llafur drwy gydol y broses. Yn wyneb ymagwedd ddigyfaddawd ac ymosodol gan Corus, rhaid inni gydnabod na wthiwyd yr undebau llafur i gymryd camau byrbwyll. Mewn gwirionedd, gwnaethant ystyried yn ofalus ym mha ffordd y gallent gyfrannu at anghenion y cymunedau hynny y mae’r diswyddiadau hyn yn parhau i gael effaith arnynt. Dylem gydnabod bod gennym fudiad undebau llafur effeithiol yng Nghymru.
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 64
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 64
You and your community are in a unique situation because you are not in an assisted area. The reason for that was obvious to everybody before 11 September, namely that growth was powered by the aerospace industry and Deeside Industrial Park—probably the most successful industrial estate in Britain. The park was established because of the closure of the Shotton heavy end in 1980, but it has been a phenomenal success over the last 20 years. Before 11 September, we thought that we had the answer, to take the tinplate workers and retrain them for the aerospace industry. It is not so easy now and we are trying to find other solutions. However, it is not right to say that all prospects for growth in Flintshire ended on 11 September. It is a hiccup; it may last two years but it is still undoubtedly a hiccup. You must regard eastern Flintshire as one of, if not the biggest economic powerhouse in the Welsh economy. That ability to absorb shocks is greater than in any other part of Wales, which is why it is not an assisted area. However, we must review the situation to see if underlying weaknesses are starting to emerge given the huge blow to the area—which you mentioned in your speech—from what is still regarded as the single biggest jobs loss announcement on any one day in European history. Eight thousand job losses were announced on that day in 1980.
Yr ydych chi a’ch cymuned mewn sefyllfa unigryw gan nad ydych mewn ardal a gynorthwyir. Yr oedd y rheswm dros hynny’n amlwg i bawb cyn 11 Medi, sef bod twf wedi’i hybu gan y diwydiant aerofod a Pharc Diwydiannol Glannau Dyfrdwy—ystad ddiwydiannol fwyaf llwyddiannus Prydain yn ôl pob tebyg. Sefydlwyd y parc pan gaewyd ochr drom gwaith Shotton yn 1980, ond bu’n llwyddiant ysgubol yn ystod yr 20 mlynedd diwethaf. Cyn 11 Medi, credem fod yr ateb gennym, sef ailhyfforddi’r gweithwyr tunplat ar gyfer y diwydiant aerofod. Nid yw mor hawdd erbyn hyn a cheisiwn ddod o hyd i atebion eraill. Fodd bynnag, nid yw’n briodol dweud bod pob gobaith am dwf yn Sir y Fflint wedi dod i ben ar 11 Medi. Problem dros dro ydyw; efallai y bydd yn para dwy flynedd ond problem dros dro yn ddiau ydyw o hyd. Rhaid ystyried rhan ddwyreiniol Sir y Fflint fel un o’r ardaloedd economaidd pwysicaf yn economi Cymru, os nad yr un bwysicaf. Mae’r gallu hwnnw i dderbyn ergydion yn fwy nag mewn unrhyw ran arall o Gymru, sef y rheswm pam nad yw’n ardal a gynorthwyir. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni adolygu’r sefyllfa i weld a yw gwendidau sylfaenol yn dechrau dod i’r amlwg o ystyried yr ergyd enfawr i’r ardal—a grybwyllwyd gennych yn eich araith—yn sgîl yr hyn sy’n parhau i gael ei ystyried fel y nifer fwyaf o ddiswyddiadau a gyhoeddwyd gan un cyflogwr mewn un diwrnod yn hanes Ewrop. Cyhoeddwyd wyth mil o ddiswyddiadau y diwrnod hwnnw yn 1980.
I have one question, which relates to matters raised with you in correspondence. Can you explain to those of my constituents, who were made compulsorily redundant by Corus because, as they were told, of economic circumstances a few months before the period covered by the enhanced scheme began, why former colleagues of theirs, who took voluntary redundancy and early retirement a few months later, are entitled to payments and assistance through this scheme that they cannot receive? Once again, will you, with the trades unions, consider reviewing the scheme to include that small number of men who were compulsorily made redundant in Wales a few months before the scheme comes into effect?
Mae un cwestiwn gennyf, sy’n ymwneud â’r materion a godwyd gennych mewn gohebiaeth. A allwch egluro i’r bobl hynny o blith fy etholwyr, a ddiswyddwyd yn orfodol gan Corus oherwydd, fel y dywedwyd wrthynt, amgylchiadau economaidd ychydig o fisoedd cyn i’r cyfnod a gwmpaswyd gan y cynllun gwell ddechrau, pam mae eu cyn-gydweithwyr, a ddiswyddwyd yn wirfoddol neu a ymddeolodd yn gynnar ychydig o fisoedd yn ddiweddarach, yn gymwys i gael taliadau a chymorth drwy’r cynllun hwn na allant eu cael? Unwaith eto, a wnewch chi, ar y cyd â’r undebau llafur, ystyried adolygu’r cynllun i gynnwys y nifer fach honno o ddynion a ddiswyddwyd yn orfodol yng Nghymru ychydig o fisoedd cyn i’r cynllun ddod i rym?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 65
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 65
I am sorry, I missed some of the pre-amble as your microphone did not come on, Helen Mary. If there is correspondence that I am not yet aware of I would be grateful if you could write to me as a follow-up to that question in case I missed something, and we can look at it. However, I must emphasise that whenever you decide on the date during which a special payment is available through coal and steel community funds, you will find somebody who is disadvantaged just by the fact that he or she was made redundant just before. Therefore, even if we move the date back, you would then have a group of workers from three months before who would then ask why they are not included. It is difficult. You must draw the line somewhere and I think that the line was drawn in the right place. However, I am willing to respond to a letter from you on this matter.
Mae’n ddrwg gennyf ond ni chlywais ran o’ch rhagymadrodd gan nad oedd eich microffon ymlaen, Helen Mary. Os oes gohebiaeth nad wyf eto yn ymwybodol ohoni, byddwn yn ddiolchgar pe gallech ysgrifennu ataf yn dilyn y cwestiwn hwnnw rhag ofn imi golli rhywbeth, a gallwn ei drafod. Fodd bynnag, rhaid imi bwysleisio y byddwch bob amser yn dod o hyd i rywun sydd o dan anfantais dim ond am i’r unigolyn hwnnw gael ei ddiswyddo ychydig cyn y dyddiad y penderfynir bod taliad arbennig ar gael drwy’r cronfeydd cymunedau glo a dur. Felly, hyd yn oed os symudwn y dyddiad yn ôl, byddai gennych wedyn grŵp o weithwyr o dri mis yn gynharach a fyddai wedyn yn gofyn pam nad ydynt wedi’u cynnwys. Mae’n anodd. Rhaid ichi dynnu’r llinell yn rhywle ac yr wyf o’r farn i’r llinell gael ei thynnu yn y lle priodol. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn fodlon ymateb i lythyr gennych ar y mater hwn.
On that last point, Rhodri, there may be a case for slightly backdating the scheme to the formation of Corus because the backdate is to January 2000 and Corus was formed a few months earlier. There may be a moral case that those people employed by Corus should be treated in the same way. However, your statement legitimately concentrated on the Ebbw Vale and Newport areas, and that is totally understandable. However, you made a number of welcome comments about the situation in Port Talbot, which merits attention as we have lost the old galvanising line and the Welsh Technology Centre—which you mentioned. I am sure that the people of Port Talbot will welcome your statement on blast furnace no. 5, which makes a small but significant contribution to trying to ease the wounds and trauma following 8 November.
O ran y pwynt olaf hwnnw, Rhodri, efallai bod dadl dros ôl-ddyddio’r cynllun ychydig i adeg sefydlu Corus gan fod y cynllun wedi’i ôl-ddyddio i Ionawr 2000 a sefydlwyd Corus ychydig o fisoedd yn gynharach. Efallai fod dadl foesol dros sicrhau y caiff y bobl hynny a gyflogwyd gan Corus eu trin yn yr un ffordd. Fodd bynnag, canolbwyntiodd eich datganiad ar ardaloedd Glynebwy a Chasnewydd, ac mae hynny’n hollol ddealladwy. Fodd bynnag, gwnaethoch nifer o sylwadau y dylid eu croesawu ynglŷn â’r sefyllfa ym Mhort Talbot, sy’n haeddu sylw gan ein bod wedi colli’r hen linell galfaneiddio a Chanolfan Technoleg Cymru—a grybwyllwyd gennych. Yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd trigolion Port Talbot yn croesawu eich datganiad ar ffwrnais chwyth rhif 5, sy’n gwneud gyfraniad bach ond pwysig i geisio lleddfu’r boen a’r trawma yn dilyn 8 Tachwedd.
Linked to rebuilding blast furnace no. 5 is the real prospect of the demolition of blast furnace no. 3, which was flagged up in the local Port Talbot press last night, in relation to the peripheral distributor road. You did not mention that in your statement, but it could legitimately be seen as part of an overall response to the problems that we are facing in the steel industry.
Yn gysylltiedig â’r gwaith o ailadeiladu ffwrnais chwyth rhif 5 mae’r posibilrwydd gwirioneddol o ddymchwel ffwrnais chwyth rhif 3; tynnwyd sylw at y mater ym mhapur newydd lleol Port Talbot neithiwr, mewn cysylltiad â’r ffordd ddosbarthu ymylol. Ni chrybwyllwyd hynny gennych yn eich datganiad, ond gellid ei ystyried yn deg fel rhan o ymateb cyffredinol i’r problemau a wynebwn yn y diwydiant dur.
You also mentioned the advanced stages of the plans to renew the advanced technology centre. Could you provide further information on that because I visited the technology centre with the MP for Aberavon, Hywel Francis, two weeks ago, and there was concern there about the long-term future of its location, and some early news would be welcome.
Crybwyllwyd hefyd gamau datblygedig y cynlluniau i adfer y ganolfan technoleg uwch. A allech roi rhagor o wybodaeth am hynny oherwydd imi ymweld â’r ganolfan dechnoleg gyda’r AS dros Aberafan, Hywel Francis, bythefnos yn ôl, a lleisiwyd pryderon yno am ddyfodol hirdymor ei lleoliad, a byddai’n braf clywed newyddion yn fuan.
Finally, can you confirm that the National Assembly Government is working with Patricia Hewitt on her campaign to renew the British manufacturing industry because that is an important market for Corus? It is also important to supplement the work that Business Connect Neath Port Talbot and the WDA are undertaking with the first and second-tier suppliers in the Port Talbot area who previously worked with Corus. Their prospects are in tune with the greater UK economy.
I gloi, a allwch gadarnhau bod y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol yn cydweithio â Patricia Hewitt ar ei hymgyrch i adfer diwydiant gweithgynhyrchu Prydain gan fod honno’n farchnad bwysig i Corus? Mae hefyd yn bwysig ategu’r gwaith a wneir gan Gyswllt Busnes Castell-nedd Port Talbot a’r WDA gyda’r cyflenwyr haen gyntaf ac ail haen yn ardal Port Talbot a weithiodd gyda Corus yn flaenorol. Mae eu rhagolygon yn cyd-fynd ag economi ehangach y DU.
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 67
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 67
On the Port Talbot peripheral distributor road, I would have been accused of padding out this statement if I had re-announced something that Sue Essex announced in her statement. It comes under a different heading, but it is clearly part of the renewal programme for Port Talbot. Unfortunately, it requires part of the advanced technology centre site, but we believe that we can get round that problem.
O ran ffordd ddosbarthu ymylol Port Talbot, byddech wedi fy nghyhuddo o gynnwys deunydd diangen yn y datganiad hwn pe byddwn wedi ailgyhoeddi rhywbeth a gyhoeddodd Sue Essex yn ei datganiad. Daw o dan bennawd gwahanol, ond mae’n amlwg yn rhan o raglen adfer Port Talbot. Yn anffodus, mae angen rhan o safle’r ganolfan technoleg uwch arni, ond credwn y gallwn ddod o hyd i ateb amgen i’r broblem honno.
On the advanced technology centre, you are right, keeping people on the end of a string while you work as fast as you can to get the universities, the national institutions and the private sector involved, is difficult. However, the WDA will be appointing a chief operating officer to develop the initiative within the next few weeks. I hope that that will assure those who are trying to decide where their career path will take them next, that it is definitely worth hanging on, because we are interested in the people and the brainpower that has been located at the ATC for a long time, now that it needs to find a new role for itself.
O ran y ganolfan technoleg uwch, yr ydych yn gywir; mae cadw pobl ar dennyn tra eich bod yn gweithio mor gyflym ag y gallwch i sicrhau cyfranogiad y prifysgolion, y sefydliadau cenedlaethol a’r sector preifat, yn anodd. Fodd bynnag, bydd y WDA yn penodi prif swyddog gweithredu i ddatblygu’r fenter o fewn yr ychydig wythnosau nesaf. Gobeithiaf y bydd hynny’n rhoi sicrwydd i’r rhai sy’n ceisio penderfynu lle y bydd eu llwybr gyrfa yn mynd â hwy nesaf, ei bod yn bendant yn werth iddynt aros, gan fod diddordeb gennym yn y bobl a’r gallu meddyliol a fu yn y ganolfan technoleg uwch ers amser maith, nawr bod angen iddi ymgymryd â rôl newydd.
On the backdating issue, I would be happy to consider a letter from you, but I do not hold out much hope for this issue for the reasons I gave to Helen Mary.
O ran y mater ôl-ddyddio, byddwn yn barod i ystyried llythyr gennych, ond nid oes llawer o obaith gennyf o ran y mater hwn am y rhesymau a roddais i Helen Mary.
On Patricia Hewitt and the campaign to get manufacturing expanding again in the UK, Tony Pedder met Patricia the day before he met me, and he put this forcefully to her: you cannot run a steel industry unless you have customers for it, because the position of the pound and the euro means that you cannot export steel. Therefore, you must have the home market for the steel. Signs of growth or rebirth in the car industry are welcome but nevertheless the customer base has been shrinking steadily for more than 20 years, and that is Corus’s real problem; they cannot export profitably and have given up exporting unprofitably as shown by their decision of 1 February 2001.
O ran Patricia Hewitt a’r ymgyrch i sicrhau bod y diwydiant gweithgynhyrchu yn ehangu eto yn y DU, cyfarfu Tony Pedder â Patricia y diwrnod cyn iddo gyfarfod â mi, a mynegodd hyn mewn ffordd rymus iddi: nid yw’n bosibl rhedeg diwydiant dur oni bai bod cwsmeriaid ganddo, gan fod sefyllfa’r bunt a’r ewro yn golygu nad yw’n bosibl allforio dur. Felly, rhaid sicrhau bod marchnad i ddur yn y wlad hon. Croesewir arwyddion bod y diwydiant ceir yn tyfu neu’n ailddatblygu ond, serch hynny, bu nifer ei gwsmeriaid yn lleihau ers mwy nag 20 mlynedd, a dyna broblem wirioneddol Corus; ni all wneud elw drwy allforio ac mae wedi rhoi’r gorau i allforio heb elw, fel y dangosodd drwy ei benderfyniad ar 1 Chwefror 2001.
I welcome the news about the passenger railway from Ebbw Vale through Islwyn because it will benefit my constituents. I also welcome what you say about Oakdale business park, and I have asked you to support the county’s plan to build the Sirhowy enterprise park because it is important to the development and growth of the area. However, do you think that it is appropriate for Labour to accept a donation from the owner of a company that stood to gain from the running down of Corus’s and the UK’s steel manufacturing capacity?
Croesawaf y newyddion am y rheilffordd i deithwyr o Lynebwy drwy Islwyn oherwydd bydd o fudd i’m hetholwyr. Croesawaf hefyd yr hyn a ddywedwch am barc busnes Oakdale, ac yr wyf wedi gofyn ichi gefnogi cynllun y sir i adeiladu parc menter Sirhywi gan ei bod yn bwysig i ddatblygiad a chynnydd yr ardal. Fodd bynnag, a gredwch ei bod yn briodol i’r Blaid Lafur dderbyn rhodd ariannol gan berchennog cwmni a fyddai ar ei ennill yn sgîl lleihau capasiti gweithgynhyrchu dur Corus a’r DU?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 68
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 68
To deal with the ‘allegation’ in your final point, I read the story, having read the headline in The Western Mail. It was another story where the headline got you excited that, by the time you had read it, you were trying to work out what the story was. I am still totally at a loss to understand what Adam Price is alleging. What link is there? What is the cause and effect that Adam Price MP is alleging? His cause is between the Lakshmi Mittal Isbat steel company and what happened with Corus. The only connection that he implied was that somebody had failed to support the workers buyout option because Lakshmi Mittal had made a donation to the Labour Party. Anybody present when Edwina and I addressed the workforce at Bryngwyn—which appeared to be the only likely workers buyout syndicate—would know that there was no question of any linkage with any donations to the Labour party. For a Tower Colliery-style buyout to work, you need a likely market, strong leadership and workforce enthusiasm, and they considered it and decided not to go for it. It was nothing to do with any donations by Mr Mittal to the Labour Party. If Adam Price wants to be taken seriously, he must come up with a better story than that.
I ddelio â’r ‘honiad’ yn eich pwynt olaf, darllenais y stori, ar ôl darllen y pennawd yn The Western Mail. Stori arall ydoedd lle y cafwyd pennawd cyffrous, ond ar ôl darllen yr erthygl, yr oeddech yn ceisio canfod beth oedd y stori mewn gwirionedd. Ni allaf ddeall o gwbl yr hyn y mae Adam Price yn ei honni. Beth yw’r cysylltiad? Beth yw’r achos a’r effaith y mae Adam Price AS yn eu honni? Mae ei achos ef rhwng cwmni dur Lakshmi Mittal Isbat a’r hyn a ddigwyddodd gyda Corus. Yr unig gysylltiad a awgrymodd oedd bod rhywun wedi methu â chefnogi’r opsiwn lle y byddai’r gweithwyr yn prynu’r gwaith gan fod Lakshmi Mittal wedi rhoi arian i’r Blaid Lafur. Byddai unrhyw un a oedd yn bresennol pan wnaeth Edwina a minnau annerch gweithlu Bryngwyn—a oedd yn ymddangos fel yr unig syndicet o weithwyr a oedd yn debygol o brynu’r cwmni—yn gwybod nad oedd unrhyw gysylltiad o gwbl ag unrhyw roddion ariannol a roddwyd i’r Blaid Lafur. Er mwyn sicrhau bod rhywbeth sy’n debyg i’r hyn a ddigwyddodd ym Mhwll Glo’r Tŵr pan y’i prynwyd gan y gweithwyr yn llwyddo, mae angen marchnad debygol, arweinyddiaeth gref a brwdfrydedd y gweithlu. Nid oedd a wnelo dim ag unrhyw arian a roddwyd gan Mr Mittal i’r Blaid Lafur. Os bydd Adam Price am inni ei gymryd o ddifrif, rhaid iddo feddwl am stori well na honno.
On another note, Brian, I am grateful that you welcome the fact that the Ebbw Vale to Cardiff line will pass through Islwyn, your constituency. It will have several stops there and it will widen job choice for people in Islwyn. They want to work in professional services jobs in Cardiff; they want to work in call centres in Cardiff, which they do not have in their constituency. Likewise, in terms of the Oakdale business park, people from Cardiff can work at the business park, at General Dynamics, if they wish to do so. They can access jobs in the Valleys as well. That is what improving transport does. Likewise, for students attending higher education institutions in Cardiff such as the medical school and so forth, it is a major widening of accessibility to Cardiff, and I am glad that you welcome that.
Ar drywydd arall, Brian, yr wyf yn ddiolchgar eich bod yn croesawu’r ffaith y bydd y llinell rhwng Glynebwy a Chaerdydd yn mynd drwy Islwyn, eich etholaeth chi. Bydd yn aros mewn nifer o fannau yno ac yn ehangu’r dewis o swyddi sydd ar gael i drigolion Islwyn. Maent am weithio yn y gwasanaethau proffesiynol yng Nghaerdydd; maent am weithio mewn canolfannau galw yng Nghaerdydd, nad ydynt yn bodoli yn eu hetholaeth hwy. Yn yr un modd, o ran parc busnes Oakdale, gall trigolion Caerdydd weithio yn y parc busnes, yn General Dynamics, os dymunant. Gallant fynd i swyddi yn y Cymoedd hefyd. Dyna ganlyniad gwella’r system drafnidiaeth. Yn yr un modd, mae’n gwella hygyrchedd i fyfyrwyr sy’n mynychu sefydliadau addysg uwch yng Nghaerdydd, fel yr ysgol feddygaeth ac yn y blaen, ac mae’n dda gennyf eich bod yn croesawu hynny.
I thank you for your statement this morning. However, the loss of 44 jobs announced today at the Panteg steelworks is another blow to the steel industry and to manufacturing, in my constituency in particular. Will you give your assurance that you will act immediately to work with the WDA and ELWa to ensure that those workers made redundant are given prompt support and access to retraining and assistance to find new work? This is another example of the real problems currently being faced by the manufacturing industry in the Gwent valleys. Will you also ensure that the urban regeneration company recognises its responsibilities to the wider Gwent valleys and that, in supporting the regeneration of Newport, it also seeks to provide employment and business opportunities in such areas as Torfaen? Will you look, as a matter of urgency, at what further steps the administration and the Assembly can take to tackle the real problems being faced in the Gwent Valleys?
Diolchaf ichi am eich datganiad y bore yma. Fodd bynnag, mae’r 44 o swyddi a gaiff eu colli yng ngwaith dur Panteg a gyhoeddwyd heddiw yn ergyd arall i’r diwydiant dur a’r diwydiant gweithgynhyrchu, yn fy etholaeth i yn benodol. A roddwch sicrwydd inni y byddwch yn cymryd camau ar unwaith i gydweithio â’r WDA ac ELWa i sicrhau bod y gweithwyr hynny sydd wedi colli eu swyddi yn cael cymorth buan a chyfle i ailhyfforddi a chael cymorth i ddod o hyd i swydd newydd? Dyma enghraifft arall o’r problemau gwirioneddol a wynebir ar hyn o bryd gan y diwydiant gweithgynhyrchu yng nghymoedd Gwent. A sicrhewch hefyd fod y cwmni adfywio trefol yn cydnabod ei gyfrifoldebau i gymoedd ehangach Gwent a’i fod hefyd, wrth gefnogi’r gwaith o adfywio Casnewydd, yn ceisio darparu cyfleoedd cyflogaeth a busnes mewn ardaloedd megis Tor-faen? A ystyriwch, fel mater o frys, pa gamau pellach y gall y weinyddiaeth a’r Cynulliad eu cymryd i fynd i’r afael â’r problemau gwirioneddol a wynebir yng nghymoedd Gwent?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 70
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 70
Yes, Lynne. I had to add that at the last minute as we were officially informed at 9.00 a.m. while I was in my seat in Chamber. I thought it would be wrong not to include it, even though Corus is not directly involved in AvestaPolarit any longer, other than having a 20 per cent shareholding in the company. It is the warehouse that is being closed. The manufacturing will continue as before, as we understand it. Nevertheless, 44 jobs are being lost in the Griffithstown area. Yes, I will certainly go along with what you mention, as there could be some valuable resource there in terms of trying to get the right training opportunities and the right re-employment opportunities for the 44 people who will lose their jobs. We may be able to assist in terms of the re-use of the buildings when the warehouse closes in July.
Gwnaf, Lynne. Yr oedd yn rhaid imi ychwanegu hynny ar y funud olaf gan inni gael gwybod yn swyddogol am 9.00 a.m. pan oeddwn yn eistedd yn y Siambr. Yr oeddwn o’r farn y byddai’n anghywir peidio â’i gynnwys, er nad yw Corus bellach yn gysylltiedig yn uniongyrchol ag AvestaPolarit, ar wahân i’r ffaith bod ganddo gyfranddaliad o 20 y cant yn y cwmni. Y warws fydd yn cau. Bydd gweithgynhyrchu yn parhau fel o’r blaen, fel y deallwn. Serch hynny, caiff 44 o swyddi eu colli yn ardal Griffithstown. Cytunaf yn llwyr â’r hyn a grybwyllwyd gennych, oherwydd efallai fod adnoddau gwerthfawr yno o ran ceisio cael y cyfleoedd hyfforddi priodol a’r cyfleoedd ailgyflogi priodol i’r 44 o bobl a fydd yn colli eu swyddi. Mae’n bosibl y gallwn helpu i sicrhau y defnyddir yr adeiladau hyn eto pan fydd y warws yn cau ym mis Gorffennaf.
Pwyntiau o Drefn
Points of Order
Point of order. I want to make a short personal statement. When I said that I failed to communicate my proposals for broadband via fibre optic three years ago, it was intended as a joke at my own expense. I have not reached the age of 63 as a physicist without realising that I often fail dismally to communicate properly those technical matters that excite me. I have learned far more of importance from the people of the Valleys than they could learn from me.
Pwynt o drefn. Hoffwn wneud datganiad personol byr. Pan ddywedais i mi fethu â chyfleu fy nghynigion ar gyfer band llydan drwy gyfrwng optig ffibr dair blynedd yn ôl, fe’i bwriedwyd fel jôc ar fy nhraul i. Nid wyf wedi cyrraedd 63 mlwydd oed fel ffisegydd heb sylweddoli fy mod yn aml yn methu’n llwyr â chyfathrebu’n gywir y materion technegol hynny sy’n fy nghyffroi. Dysgais bethau llawer pwysicach gan bobl y Cymoedd nag y gallent hwy eu dysgu gennyf i.
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 70
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 70
Further to that point of order, I entirely go along with those sentiments. What I said was also a joke.
Ymhellach i’r pwynt hwnnw o drefn, cytunaf yn llwyr â’r sylwadau hynny. Jôc oedd yr hyn a ddywedais innau hefyd.
Point of order. I wish to correct myself. The person who wrote to me, to whom I referred when I discussed Montgomery canal, was a member of the Inland Waterways Association, not British Waterways.
Pwynt o drefn. Hoffwn gywiro fy hun. Yr oedd y sawl a ysgrifennodd ataf, y cyfeiriais ato pan drafodais gamlas Trefaldwyn, yn aelod o’r Gymdeithas Ddyfrffyrdd, ac nid Dyfrffyrdd Prydain.
Point of order. This relates to an answer to a written question that I received from the First Minister on 29 January 2002, regarding the Cabinet and the possible announcement of a reshuffle, which members of his administration have discussed with the press. The response stated,
Pwynt o drefn. Mae hyn yn ymwneud ag ateb i gwestiwn ysgrifenedig a dderbyniais gan Brif Weinidog Cymru ar 29 Ionawr 2002, ynghylch y Cabinet a datganiad posibl ynghylch ad-drefnu, y bu aelodau o’i weinyddiaeth yn ei drafod â’r wasg. Nododd yr ymateb,
‘I have no plans to reshuffle my present Cabinet, which is wholly representative of the people of Wales.’
‘Nid oes gennyf unrhyw gynlluniau i ad-drefnu fy Nghabinet presennol, sy’n llwyr gynrychioliadol o bobl Cymru.’
Ignoring the fact that there is nobody in the Cabinet from north, mid or rural Wales, the Valleys, west of Swansea, north of Bridgend or the former Gwent, will the First Minister confirm that he has no plans to reshuffle the Cabinet in February, for example? That is contrary to what members of his administration are telling the media.
Gan anwybyddu’r ffaith nad oes un o aelodau’r Cabinet o’r Gogledd, y Canolbarth na chefn gwlad Cymru, y Cymoedd, i’r gorllewin o Abertawe, i’r gogledd o Ben-y-bont ar Ogwr na’r hen Went, a wnaiff y Prif Weinidog gadarnhau nad oes ganddo unrhyw gynlluniau i ad-drefnu ei Gabinet ym mis Chwefror, er enghraifft? Mae hynny’n groes i’r hyn y mae aelodau ei gabinet yn ei ddweud wrth y cyfryngau.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh and English p. 71
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 71
As the leader of the Welsh Conservatives well knows, this is not a point of order for me. It may be a matter of public speculation or interest, but the content of ministerial answers and, particularly, press briefings—were there any—is not a matter for me.
yn Saesneg Fel y gŵyr arweinydd Ceidwadwyr Cymru yn dda, nid yw hwn yn bwynt o drefn i mi. Efallai ei fod yn fater o chwilfrydedd neu ddiddordeb i’r cyhoedd, ond nid yw cynnwys atebion gweinidogol a sesiynau briffio i’r wasg, yn arbennig—os bu rhai o gwbl—yn fater i mi.
Before I leave the Chair, I greet the distinguished delegation from the National Assembly of the Republic of Armenia, who have joined us today.
yn Saesneg Cyn i mi adael y Gadair, cyfarchaf y ddirprwyaeth nodedig o Gynulliad Cenedlaethol Gweriniaeth Armenia, sydd wedi ymuno â ni heddiw.
Croeso mawr i Gynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru. Mae gan Weriniaeth Armenia boblogaeth o ychydig mwy na 3 miliwn, ond mae’n debyg i Gymru. Bydd o ddiddordeb i Aelodau’r Cynulliad wybod y cynhelir etholiadau yn Armenia hefyd yn 2003. [Cymeradwyaeth.]
in Welsh A warm welcome to the National Assembly for Wales. The Republic of Armenia has a population slightly greater than 3 million, but it is similar to Wales. Assembly Members will be interested to know that elections will also be held in Armenia in 2003. [Applause.]
Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd i’r Gadair am 11.26 a.m.
The Deputy Presiding Officer took the Chair at 11.26 a.m.
Dadl o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 29: Is-ddeddfwriaeth o dan Ddeddf Gwasanaeth Iechyd Gwladol 1997
Debate under Standing Order No. 29: Subordinate Legislation under the National Health Service Act 1997
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 71
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 71
I have selected amendment 1 in the name of Andrew Davies.
Yr wyf wedi dethol gwelliant 1 yn enw Andrew Davies.
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Pauline Jarman (continued) spoken in English p. 72
Pauline Jarman (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 72
Visual problems can affect how well children learn, play and do simple tasks. There is evidence that vision problems can cause children to act as if they suffer from attention deficit disorder when, in fact, their behaviour problems are related to a visual problem. Children’s development, performance, self-esteem and learning can be undermined if their vision is impaired. Most of us would recognise early warning signs of children needing an eye test: blinking frequently when reading or watching television or computer screens, squinting to focus on text, placing their heads close to a book to read or write and rubbing their eyes.
Gall problemau golwg effeithio ar ba mor dda y mae plant yn dysgu, gweld a chyflawni tasgau syml. Ceir tystiolaeth y gall problemau o ran golwg achosi plant i ymddwyn fel pe baent yn dioddef o afiechyd diffyg sylw, pan mae eu hymddygiad, mewn gwirionedd, yn ymwneud â phroblem golwg. Gall nam ar eu golwg amharu ar ddatblygiad, perfformiad, hunan-barch a dysgu plant. Byddai’r rhan fwyaf ohonom yn gweld yr arwyddion rhybudd cynnar pan fo plant angen prawf llygaid: amrantu’n rheolaidd wrth ddarllen neu wylio teledu neu sgriniau cyfrifiadur, craffu i ganolbwyntio ar ysgrifen, rhoi eu pen yn agos at lyfr i ddarllen neu ysgrifennu a rhwbio eu llygaid.
Some children adjust well to wearing glasses, especially the younger ones, but some children, especially those in junior and secondary education, find it more challenging. Some feel self-conscious and others are teased. I am reliably informed by my grandchildren that the success of the Harry Potter books and film means that glasses are considered to be cool, and are the height of fashion among those aged under 12.
Mae rhai plant yn addasu’n dda i wisgo sbectol, yn enwedig plant iau, ond mae rhai, yn enwedig y rhai sydd mewn addysg iau ac uwchradd, yn ei chael yn fwy o her. Mae rhai yn teimlo’n hunan-ymwybodol a chaiff eraill eu pryfocio. Fe’m hysbysir yn ddibynadwy gan fy wyrion a’m wyresau bod llwyddiant y ffilm a’r llyfrau Harry Potter yn golygu bod sbectolau yn cael eu hystyried yn cŵl, ac felly maent yn ffasiynol iawn ymysg y rhai sydd o dan 12 oed.
All of us, at some time, have been introduced to young children, often a relative, to comment on their new glasses. I am sure that we have all been supportive and praised them for wearing them, and stressed the importance of good vision. We point to other people who wear glasses, such as their teachers or other family members, in an effort to ease their self-consciousness.
Mae’r rhan fwyaf ohonom, ar ryw adeg, wedi gwneud sylwadau ar sbectol newydd blentyn ifanc, perthynas yn aml. Yr wyf yn sicr y buom yn gefnogol ac yn eu canmol am eu gwisgo, ac wedi pwysleisio pa mor bwysig yw golwg da. Cyfeiriwn at bobl eraill sy’n gwisgo sbectol, megis eu hathrawon neu aelodau eraill o’r teulu, mewn ymdrech i leddfu eu hannifyrrwch.
I was grateful that the Minister wrote to me to confirm that, at present, there is no automatic entitlement to a voucher for the supply of a second pair of optical appliances of the same prescription following an NHS eye test. However, she informed me that, in guidance issued in 1997, there was provision, in exceptional circumstances, for health authorities to issue a second pair. However, that guidance may need to be revisited.
Yr oeddwn yn ddiolchgar i’r Gweinidog am ysgrifennu ataf i gadarnhau nad oes, ar hyn o bryd, unrhyw hawl awtomatig i gael taleb ar gyfer ail sbectol gyda’r un presgripsiwn yn dilyn prawf llygaid GIG. Fodd bynnag, fe’m hysbysodd fod darpariaeth, yn y canllawiau a gyhoeddwyd yn 1997, i awdurdodau iechyd ddarparu ail bâr, mewn amgylchiadau eithriadol. Fodd bynnag, efallai fod angen ailedrych ar y canllawiau hynny.
This is an admission that the current regulations are flawed and do not achieve the objective of the motion. I do not share the Minister’s view, as stated in her letter, that the system that is in place could be undermined by the individual clinical judgment of practitioners undertaking this service if my motion is carried. For the success of my proposal, it would be preferable if the onus for regulating this legislation rested with Wales’s optometrists and ophthalmic opticians. They are the professionals who are qualified to do the testing, to prescribe glasses and to detect eye conditions. They also know the individual child and the degree of his or her vision impairment. By definition, they are the professionals best placed to judge whether or not a child is in need of a second pair of glasses. We should be as confident in the ability of optometrists and ophthalmic opticians to judge what is in the best interest of our children’s wellbeing as we are in the ability of other professionals within the NHS, such as doctors and dentists. Why should we trust the professional judgment of optometrists and ophthalmic opticians to act in the best interest of their patients any less than we do their NHS colleagues?
Mae hyn yn gyfaddefiad bod y rheoliadau presennol yn ddiffygiol ac nad ydynt yn cyflawni amcan y cynnig. Ni rannaf farn y Gweinidog, fel y nodwyd yn ei llythyr, y gall dyfarniad clinigol ymarferwyr unigol sy’n cyflawni’r gwasanaeth hwn danseilio’r system sydd ar waith, os derbynnir fy nghynnig. Er mwyn i’m cynnig lwyddo, byddai’n well pe bai optometryddion ac optegwyr offthalmig yn gyfrifol am reoleiddio’r ddeddfwriaeth hon. Hwy yw’r gweithwyr proffesiynol sy’n gymwys i gynnal y profion, i ragnodi sbectol a chanfod namau ar y llygaid. Maent hefyd yn adnabod y plentyn ac yn gwybod i ba raddau y mae nam ar ei olwg. Drwy ddiffiniad, hwy yw’r gweithwyr proffesiynol sydd yn y sefyllfa orau i ddyfarnu a oes angen ail sbectol ar blentyn. Dylem fod yr un mor hyderus yng ngallu optometryddion ac optegwyr offthalmig i ddyfarnu’r hyn sydd orau er lles y plentyn ag yr ydym yng ngallu gweithwyr proffesiynol eraill o fewn y GIG, megis meddygon a deintyddion. Pam y dylem ymddiried yn nyfarniad proffesiynol optometryddion neu optegwyr offthalmig i weithredu er lles gorau eu cleifion fymryn yn llai nag yr ymddiriedwn yn eu cydweithwyr yn y GIG?
As I hope we have all learnt from the debate on the state of the NHS that has been raging over recent days, all professionals need more support and less bureaucracy to deliver the NHS that we all want to see. Optometrists and ophthalmic opticians are no different. They need to be allowed to get on with providing a service rather than filling in forms to justify their actions to bureaucrats. A quick calculation based on the Minister’s assumptions that each child has his or her spectacles prepared within a 24-hour period shows that, during the year leading up to March 2001, 35,500 pairs of glasses were repaired, equating in time to 89 years. Adults who are dependent on glasses, or parents of children who are visually impaired, know it only takes a second for an accident to happen. Twenty-four hours is 24 hours too long. This legislation can ensure that no visually impaired child is at an increased risk of being involved in an accident for one second more than is necessary, let alone 24 hours. I am told by small independent opticians who do not have repair workshops that they have to dispatch broken glasses either by post or courier to a repair shop and that they are returned by the same method. That adds to the time in which a child is without glasses way beyond the 24-hour period.
Fel y gobeithiaf i ni gyd ei ddysgu o’r ddadl ynghylch cyflwr y GIG a fu’n berwi yn ystod y dyddiau diwethaf, mae angen rhagor o gymorth ar bob gweithiwr proffesiynol a llai o fiwrocratiaeth i gyflwyno’r GIG yr ydym i gyd am ei weld. Nid yw optometryddion nag optegwyr offthalmig yn wahanol. Mae angen gadael iddynt fwrw ati i ddarparu gwasanaeth yn hytrach na llenwi ffurflenni i gyfiawnhau eu gweithredoedd i fiwrocratiaid. Mae cyfrifiad sydyn yn seiliedig ar ragdybiaethau’r Gweinidog bod sbectol pob plentyn yn cael ei pharatoi o fewn cyfnod o 24 awr, yn dangos bod 35,500 o sbectolau wedi eu trwsio yn ystod y flwyddyn hyd at Mawrth 2001, sy’n cyfateb i 89 mlynedd o ran amser. Gŵyr oedolion sy’n dibynnu ar sbectol, neu rieni plant sydd â nam ar eu golwg, mai dim ond eiliad y mae’n ei gymryd i ddamwain ddigwydd. Mae 24 awr yn 24 awr yn rhy hir. Gall y ddeddfwriaeth hon sicrhau nad oes unrhyw blentyn sydd â nam ar ei olwg mewn mwy o berygl o fod mewn damwain am un eiliad yn fwy nag sydd raid, heb sôn am 24 awr. Fe’m hysbysir gan optegwyr annibynnol bach nad oes ganddynt weithdai trwsio bod yn rhaid iddynt anfon sbectolau wedi torri naill ai drwy’r post neu gyda chludwr i siop drwsio ac y cânt eu dychwelyd yn yr un modd. Mae hynny’n ychwanegu at yr amser y mae plentyn heb sbectol ymhell y tu hwnt i’r cyfnod 24 awr.
It is estimated that my proposal will directly cost the Assembly approximately £3 million to implement. I hope that Members from all parties will agree that this is a minimal price to pay when balanced against the unquantified costs of poorer quality of life, potential learning difficulties and disadvantage. It may be useful for Members to bear these facts in mind when making their decision today. Normal eyesight is a blessing that many people take for granted. One in four children of school age and one in 20 pre-primary children suffer from visual problems that could affect their performance. In Wales, it is estimated that 20 per cent, or one in five, children have particularly poor vision. If a child is heavily reliant on glasses, and those glasses break, it affects the child’s confidence, education and ability to do simple tasks. More worryingly perhaps, everyday tasks such as crossing the road or playing can become dangerous. As the effects of impaired vision can be devastating, I am sure that we all hope that this encourages more and more parents and children to make use of the invaluable service that is provided by NHS optometrists and ophthalmic opticians, and that, as a consequence, more children who need glasses get them.
Amcangyfrifir y bydd fy nghynnig yn costio tua £3 miliwn i’r Cynulliad ei weithredu. Gobeithiaf y bydd Aelodau o bob plaid yn cytuno bod hwn yn bris bach i’w dalu pan gaiff ei wrthbwyso yn erbyn costau amhosibl eu cyfrif o ran ansawdd bywyd gwaeth, anawsterau dysgu posibl ac anfantais. Efallai y byddai’n werth i Aelodau gadw’r ffeithiau hyn mewn cof pan fyddant yn penderfynu heddiw. Mae golwg arferol yn fendith y mae llawer o bobl yn ei gymryd yn ganiataol. Mae un o bob pedwar plentyn oedran ysgol ac un ym mhob 20 o blant cyn-ysgol gynradd yn dioddef problemau â’r golwg a allai effeithio ar eu perfformiad. Yng Nghymru, amangyfrifir bod gan tua 20 y cant o blant, neu un o bob pump, olwg neilltuol o wael. Os bydd plentyn yn dibynnu’n helaeth ar sbectol, ac mae’r sbectol honno’n torri, mae’n effeithio ar hyder, addysg a gallu’r plentyn i gyflawni tasgau syml. Yr hyn sy’n peri mwy o ofid efallai yw y gall tasgau bob dydd megis croesi’r ffordd neu chwarae fod yn beryglus. Gan y gall effeithiau nam ar y golwg fod yn ddinistriol, yr wyf yn sicr y byddem yn gobeithio fod hyn yn annog rhagor o rieni i ddefnyddio’r gwasanaeth gwerthfawr a ddarperir gan optometryddion ac optegwyr offthalmig y GIG, ac o ganlyniad, bydd rhagor o blant y mae angen sbectol arnynt yn eu cael.
Of the total number of eye tests carried out in Wales in the year ending March 2001, 166,350 tests were for children of 15 years and under. That is 25 per cent of the all those tested in Wales. During the same year, the number of pairs of spectacles for which vouchers were reimbursed by health authorities in Wales was in excess of 74,000 for children under 15 years of age, and in excess of 19,000 for students. Each voucher has a different value depending on the strength and type of lenses prescribed by the practitioner. Of the 74,000 or so spectacles prescribed to children under 15 years of age, 610 of them had prisms—spectacles that prevent double vision when small muscle weaknesses are present—and 1,390 were for tints. Of the total number of spectacles that had to be repaired or replaced in the year ending 31 March 2001, 32,500 repairs were for glasses owned by children under 15 years of age. That is a massive 97.6 per cent of the total figure. Adults’ repairs during the same period were in the region of 2.4 per cent. The degree of repair, according to official statistics, reveals that 20,420 spectacles needed both lenses replacing, 1,130 one lens replacing and 28,810 had damaged frames. This proposed legislation has been developed in light of these statistics and out of a genuine concern for the welfare of the children, with the provision of glasses being at the discretion of the individual optometrist or ophthalmic optician.
O’r cyfanswm o brofion llygaid a gynhaliwyd yng Nghymru yn ystod y flwyddyn a ddaeth i ben 31 Mawrth 2001, roedd 166,350 ohonynt ar gyfer plant 15 oed neu iau. Chwarter cyfanswm yr holl blant a brofwyd yng Nghymru yw hynny. Yn ystod yr un flwyddyn, roedd nifer sbectolau yr ad-dalwyd talebau ar eu cyfer gan awdurdodau iechyd yng Nghymru yn fwy na 74,000 ar gyfer plant o dan 15 oed, a mwy na 19,000 ar gyfer myfyrwyr. Mae gan bob taleb werth gwahanol yn dibynnu ar gryfder y sbectol a’r math o lensys a ragnodwyd gan yr ymarferwr. O’r 74,000 o sbectolau a ragnodwyd i blant o dan 15 oed, roedd prismau bach gan 610 ohonynt—sef sbectol sy’n atal golwg dwbl pan mae gwendidau esgyrn bach yn bresennol—ac yr oedd 1,390 ohonynt ar gyfer sbectolau arlliwiedig. O’r cyfanswm o sbectolau yr oedd angen eu trwsio neu eu newid yn y flwyddyn a ddaeth i ben ar 31 Mawrth 2001, roedd 32,500 o drwsiadau ar gyfer sbectolau yr oedd plant o dan 15 oed yn berchen arnynt. Mae hynny’n 97.6 y cant o’r cyfanswm, sy’n swm enfawr. Yr oedd trwsiadau ar gyfer oedolion yn ystod yr un cyfnod tua 2.4 y cant. Yn ôl yr ystadegau, datgela’r gyfradd drwsio bod angen dau lens newydd ar 20,420 o sbectolau, yr oedd angen lens newydd ar 1,130 ohonynt, ac roedd fframiau 28,810 ohonynt wedi eu difrodi. Datblygwyd y ddeddfwriaeth arfaethedig hon yng ngoleuni’r ystadegau hyn ac am fod pryder gwirioneddol am les y plant, gyda sbectolau’n cael eu darparu yn ôl disgresiwn yr optometrydd neu’r optegydd offthalmig unigol.
Nations are judged on how well they treat their children. The National Assembly has made significant advances in putting children’s issues at the heart of its social agenda, but we must do more. Today, we have the opportunity to acknowledge that the present legislation is not delivering so far as the child is concerned, and is an unnecessary challenge to the professional competence of Wales’s optometrists and ophthalmic opticians. I ask Members to support the motion.
Bernir gwledydd yn ôl pa mor dda y maent yn trin eu plant. Gwnaeth y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol gryn gynnydd o ran gosod materion plant wrth wraidd ei agenda gymdeithasol, ond rhaid i ni wneud rhagor. Heddiw, mae’r cyfle gennym i gydnabod nad yw’r ddeddfwriaeth bresennol yn cyflawni o ran y plentyn, ac mae’n her ddiangen i allu proffesiynol optometryddion ac optegwyr offthalmig Cymru. Gofynnaf i Aelodau gefnogi’r cynnig.
Jane Hutt The Minister for Health and Social Services spoken in English p. 75
Jane Hutt Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 75
I propose amendment 1 in the name of Andrew Davies. Delete ‘at the optician’s discretion’ and replace with:
Cynigiaf welliant 1 yn enw Andrew Davies. Dileu’r geiriau ‘fel y gwêl yr optegydd yn dda’ gan roi’r geiriau a ganlyn yn eu lle:
Pauline has brought forward interesting draft legislation. However, I am not convinced by her arguments. Under the terms of the NHS optional charges and payments regulations 1997, it is clearly stated that children who break their glasses are entitled to have them replaced or repaired free of charge. I know that Pauline has drawn attention to the fact that repair times can often mean that children are left without glasses for significant periods. However, that does not take into consideration that under those regulations, glasses can be replaced immediately. Therefore, opticians and optometrists can, if they believe that the repairs will take a long time and the child will be without glasses for a long time, replace glasses there and then. In addition, the legislation does not take into consideration the possibility of giving second pairs of glasses automatically to individuals, when they are not necessarily needed. Having spoken to the professional bodies, they state that whereas an adult should receive an eye test every two years or so, children need to have their eyes tested at least every 12 months, and preferably, every six months. We could find ourselves in a position of handing out glasses, with a spare pair, every six months, potentially unnecessarily.
Cyflwynodd Pauline ddeddfwriaeth ddrafft diddorol. Fodd bynnag, ni chefais fy argyhoeddi gan ei dadleuon. O dan delerau rheoliadau tâl dewisol y GIG 1997, nodir yn eglur bod gan blant sy’n torri eu sbectol yr hawl i gael pâr newydd yn ei lle neu ei thrwsio am ddim. Gwn fod Pauline wedi tynnu sylw at y ffaith y gall amseroedd trwsio yn aml olygu y gadewir plant heb sbectol am gyfnodau sylweddol. Fodd bynnag, nid yw hynny’n ystyried y ffaith y gellir cael sbectol arall ar unwaith o dan y rheoliadau hynny. Felly gall optegwyr ac optometryddion ddarparu sbectol arall yn y fan a’r lle, os ydynt yn credu y bydd y gwaith trwsio yn cymryd cryn amser ac y bydd y plentyn heb sbectol am amser hir. Yn ogystal, nid yw’r ddeddfwriaeth yn ystyried y posibilrwydd o roi ail sbectol i unigolion yn awtomatig, pan nad oes eu hangen o anghenraid. Ar ôl siarad â’r cyrff proffesiynol, nodant y dylai oedolyn gael prawf llygaid bob rhyw ddwy flynedd, ond bod angen i blant gael prawf o leiaf unwaith bob 12 mis, ac, yn ddelfrydol, bob chwe mis. Gallem ganfod ein hunain mewn sefyllfa lle yr ydym yn darparu sbectolau, gyda phâr wrth gefn, bob chwe mis, o bosibl yn ddiangen.
Pauline is quick to state in this Chamber and on national radio, that resources are not being well-used in the NHS. Given the fact that she is so keen on targeting NHS resources, I argue that an automatic right to a second pair of glasses, when we already have legislation that states that children are entitled to a free repair and a free replacement should they break glasses, is not necessarily going to achieve the improvement in eye care for vulnerable people that she suggests. It also puts the optometrists in an invidious position. How will an optometrist decide which patients need a second pair of glasses and which do not? What criteria will they use? Will optometrists throughout the country use the same criteria? How will the optometrist justify to an angry parent that Johnny next door got a second pair of glasses free when Suzy did not? It puts those professionals in an invidious position in a pressurised environment. At least, by going to the health authority, there will be a consistent approach throughout the region, and hopefully, if we get our act together, a consistent approach throughout Wales so that individuals do not receive a different service depending on where they live.
Mae Pauline yn ddigon parod i ddatgan yn y Siambr hon ac ar y radio yn genedlaethol, na chaiff adnoddau eu defnyddio’n dda yn y GIG. O gofio ei bod mor awyddus i dargedu adnoddau’r GIG, dadleuaf na fydd hawl awtomatig i gael ail sbectol, pan mae gennym ddeddfwriaeth eisoes sy’n datgan y gellir trwsio sbectol plentyn am ddim ac y gallant gael sbectol arall yn ei lle am ddim os torrant y sbectol, o anghenraid yn cyflawni’r gwelliant o ran gofal llygaid ar gyfer pobl ddiamddiffyn a awgrymir ganddi. Mae hefyd yn rhoi optometryddion mewn sefyllfa annheg. Sut y bydd optometrydd yn penderfynu pa gleifion sydd angen ail bâr o sbectol? Pa feini prawf y byddant yn eu defnyddio? A fydd optometryddion ar hyd a lled y wlad yn defnyddio’r un meini prawf? Sut y bydd optometrydd yn cyfiawnhau wrth riant blin fod Siôn drws nesaf wedi cael ail bâr am ddim pan na chafodd Siân? Mae’n rhoi’r gweithwyr proffesiynol hynny mewn sefyllfa annheg mewn amgylchedd lle y maent dan bwysau. O leiaf, drwy gyfeirio’r mater at yr awdurdod iechyd, bydd ymagwedd gyson ar hyd a lled y rhanbarth, a gobeithio, os cawn drefn ar ein gweithgareddau, ymagwedd gyson ar hyd a lled Cymru fel na chaiff unigolion wasanaeth gwahanol sy’n ddibynnol ar lle y maent yn byw.
Pauline has a point and she is right to discuss the poor service that children can sometimes receive. However, the decision to automatically give a second pair of glasses should be based on revised guidance to the health authorities and should be at their discretion.
Mae gan Pauline bwynt, ac mae’n gywir i drafod y gwasanaeth gwael y gall plant ei dderbyn weithiau. Fodd bynnag, dylai’r penderfyniad i roi ail sbectol fod yn seiliedig ar y canllawiau diwygiedig a roddwyd i’r awdurdodau iechyd a dylai fod yn ôl eu digresiwn hwy.
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 77
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 77
I have received a number of requests to speak as the debate has progressed. While this is an important matter, I appeal for short speeches.
Derbyniais nifer o geisiadau i siarad wrth i’r ddadl hon fynd yn ei blaen. Er bod hwn yn fater pwysig, apeliaf am areithiau byr.
Datganaf fy muddiant arferol fel meddyg teulu. Mae’r cynnig hwn, yn y bôn, yn ymwneud â darparu ail bâr o sbectol i blant a phobl ifanc. Yn naturiol, mae’r cynnig wedi’i anelu at blant ag arnynt fwyaf o angen y ddarpariaeth hon. Dylai canllawiau cadarn gael eu llunio os derbynnir y cynnig hwn. Yn y pen draw, soniwn am y plant a’r bobl ifanc mewn angen mwyaf. Yr ydym yn sôn am ddifrifoldeb nam ar y golwg yn y lle cyntaf, lle byddai bod heb sbectol am amser byr hyd yn oed yn cael effaith andwyol ar addysg y plentyn ac agweddau eraill ar fywyd bob dydd y plentyn, fel y crybwyllodd Pauline eisoes.
I declare my usual interest as a GP. This motion is essentially about the provision of a second pair of spectacles for children and young people. Naturally, this motion is aimed at children who are most in need of this provision. Strong guidelines should be produced if this motion is carried. At the end of the day, we are talking about the children and young people who are most in need. We are talking about the seriousness of visual impairment, where being without spectacles for even a short time could have a detrimental effect on the child’s education and on other elements of the child’s everyday life, as Pauline has already mentioned.
Wrth sôn am y plant sydd mewn angen mwyaf o ran y ddarpariaeth hon, soniwn hefyd am iechyd cyffredinol y plentyn a pha bynnag gyflyrau eraill mae’r plentyn yn dioddef ohonynt, sydd hefyd yn gallu effeithio ar yr holl sefyllfa—ffactorau iechyd y bydd yr optegydd eisoes yn ymwybodol ohonynt.
While talking about the children who are in greatest need of this provision, we are also talking about the child’s general health and any other conditions the child may be suffering from, which can also affect the whole situation—health factors of which the optician will already be aware.
Y feddylfryd y tu ôl i’r cynnig hwn yw ceisio lleihau’r baich o anfantais sydd ar ysgwyddau’r plant a’r bobl ifanc hyn, yn wyneb maint y nam ar eu golwg ac unrhyw anfanteision meddygol eraill, ac felly, leihau unrhyw ddiffygion a phroblemau gydag addysg y plentyn ac elfennau eraill o allgáu cymdeithasol. Fel meddyg teulu, yr wyf yn ymwybodol bod copi o bob presgripsiwn yr wyf yn ei ysgrifennu yn cyrraedd yr awdurdodau i’w archwilio a’i gyfrif.
The thinking behind this motion is to try to decrease the burden of disadvantage which falls on the shoulders of these children and young people, in the face of the scale of their visual impairment and any other medical disadvantages, and lessen the impact of any impairments and problems with the child’s education and other elements of social exclusion. As a GP, I am aware that a copy of each prescription that I write is past on to the authorities to be inspected and audited.
Mae’n bosibl cynllunio llwybrau awdit ar gyfer pob presgripsiwn am sbectol a hyrwyddo’r defnydd cywir o’r cynnig goleuedig hwn. Yr wyf yn llongyfarch Pauline ar ddod â’r cynnig hwn gerbron ac anogaf pob Aelod i’w gefnogi.
It is possible to plan audit trails for each prescription for spectacles and promote the correct use of this enlightened motion. I congratulate Pauline on bringing this motion before us and I urge Members to support it.
This motion falls into the category of being worthy in its intention, but the means are confused. As it is currently drafted, it includes the phrase, ‘certain people up to the age of 19’. We have heard from Plaid Cymru that that means people in particular disadvantage. We need more definition than has been provided in that statement. To allow opticians discretion and judgment in situations as vague as that will lead to an uneven service, to put it mildly. I agree with the remarks made by Kirsty Williams, the Chair of the Health and Social Services Committee. Her comments were well made. If there is an acute problem, it has not been brought to my attention. We are not facing universal difficulties, with children frequently damaging their spectacles for such a long time that they are in danger of suffering accidents or doing poorly in education. I have not discovered that problems of such a comprehensive nature exist. It may be that they have not been brought to my attention, so I do not dismiss this as an area of genuine concern. However, if it is the case that this is a real problem across society, then presumably all children who qualify for NHS spectacles ought to have a spare pair. It is one or the other. To say that certain people under the age of 19 are eligible for a second pair is a strange way of going about it. It is stranger still when you do not then refer to the judgment of the health authority, but to the discretion of the optician. Therefore, the only way that I could support the legislation proposed this morning is if amendment 1 is carried.
Mae’r cynnig hwn yn syrthio i’r categori o fod yn deilwng o ran ei fwriad, ond yn ddryslyd o ran ei fodd. Yn ôl y modd y caiff ei ddrafftio ar hyn o bryd, mae’n cynnwys yr ymadrodd, ‘rhai pobl hyd at 19 oed’. Clywsom gan Blaid Cymru y golyga hynny bobl o dan anfantais arbennig. Mae angen mwy o ddiffiniad arnom na’r hyn a roddwyd yn y datganiad hwnnw. Byddai caniatáu disgresiwn i optegwyr a rhoi’r hawl iddynt ddefnyddio eu barn mewn sefyllfaoedd mor niwlog â hynny yn arwain at wasanaeth anghyson, a dweud y lleiaf. Cytunaf â’r sylwadau a wnaed gan Kirsty Williams, Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol. Gwnaeth ei sylwadau’n dda. Os oes problem ddifrifol, ni ddaethpwyd â hi i’m sylw. Nid ydym yn wynebu anawsterau cyffredinol, lle mae plant yn difrodi eu sbectolau’n aml am gyfnodau mor hir fel eu bod mewn perygl o gael damweiniau neu gyflawni’n wael o ran addysg. Ni chanfûm fod problemau mor wael â hynny’n bodoli. Efallai na ddaethpwyd â hwy i’m sylw, felly ni ddiystyraf hyn fel mater sy’n achosi pryder gwirioneddol. Fodd bynnag, os yw’n broblem wirioneddol mewn cymdeithas, yna gellid tybio y dylai pob plentyn sy’n gymwys i gael sbectol y GIG gael pâr sbâr. Mae’n un neu’r llall. Mae dweud bod rhai pobl o dan 19 oed yn gymwys i gael ail sbectol yn ffordd ryfedd o fynd ati. Mae’n rhyfeddach fyth pan nad ydych wedyn yn cyfeirio at farn yr awdurdod iechyd, ond at ddisgresiwn yr optegydd. Felly, yr unig ffordd y gallaf gefnogi’r ddeddfwriaeth a gynigiwyd y bore yma yw os y caiff gwelliant 1 ei dderbyn.
I declare an interest as a pharmacist. I also congratulate Pauline on bringing forward this proposal for secondary legislation which undoubtedly will improve children’s quality of life. It is based on the National Assembly’s founding principles of equality of opportunity and social inclusion.
Datganaf fuddiant fel fferyllydd. Llongyfarchaf Pauline hefyd ar gyflwyno’r cynnig hwn ar gyfer is-ddeddfwriaeth, a fydd, yn ddiau, yn gwella ansawdd bywyd plant. Mae’n seiliedig ar egwyddorion sefydlu’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol sef darparu cyfleoedd a chynhwysiant cymdeithasol.
As someone who has recently started to use glasses, I know how easy it is to misplace them. In my case it is a small inconvenience, but for some children and adults this is a serious situation, especially for those who are short-sighted. It can affect safety, as we have discussed, including crossing the road, and so on. It can also affect children’s education—they will not be able to see the blackboard, and perhaps will be treated differently as a consequence, and moved around the class, which causes distress. There are also certain medical conditions that will deteriorate if they do not continuously wear the appropriate glasses. My own children lose things all the time. Children are also more likely to damage their glasses because they take part in sports. It is important that people who wear glasses are not inhibited from taking part in sports because they fear damaging their spectacles.
Fel un a ddechreuodd wisgo sbectol yn ddiweddar, gwn pa mor hawdd yw ei cholli. Yn fy achos i, anghyfleustra bach ydyw, ond i rai plant ac oedolion mae hon yn sefyllfa ddifrifol, yn enwedig ar gyfer y rhai sy’n fyr eu golwg. Gall effeithio ar ddiogelwch, fel y trafodasom, gan cynnwys croesi’r ffordd, ac yn y blaen. Gall hefyd effeithio ar addysg plant—ni fyddant yn gallu gweld y bwrdd du, ac efallai y cânt eu trin yn wahanol o ganlyniad, a’u symud o amgylch y dosbarth, sy’n achosi gofid. Ceir rhai cyflyrau meddygol hefyd a fydd yn dirwyio os na fydd plant yn gwisgo’r sbectol briodol yn barhaus. Mae fy mhlant i yn colli pethau drwy’r amser. Mae plant yn fwy tebygol o ddifrodi eu sbectol gan eu bod yn cymryd rhan mewn chwaraeon. Mae’n bwysig nad yw pobl sy’n gwisgo sbectol yn cael eu hatal rhag cymryd rhan mewn chwaraeon oherwydd eu bod yn poeni am ddifrodi eu sbectol.
There is provision for replacement glasses, but there is often a delay of days before they are replaced, especially when the prescription is complicated. This legislation would stop that happening. The optician’s discretion should be relied on as to whether or not to provide a second pair. There should be national guidelines, but it is up to the professional opinion of the optician—who knows the patients’ circumstances. It would be second best if we delegated this to area health authorities, especially if they become health boards, when there will be 22 of them throughout Wales. That may possibly lead to postcode prescribing on second pairs of glasses, as on other issues. We should rely on the optician’s discretion.
Gellir darparu sbectol yn lle’r un a ddifrodwyd, ond ceir oedi sy’n para dyddiau yn aml cyn iddynt gael un yn ei lle, yn enwedig pan fo’r presgripsiwn yn gymhleth. Byddai’r ddeddfwriaeth hon yn atal hynny rhag digwydd. Dylid dibynnu ar ddisgresiwn optegydd o ran a ddylid darparu ail sbectol. Dylai canllawiau cenedlaethol fodoli, ond dylai ddibynnu ar farn broffesiynol yr optegydd—a ŵyr am amgylchiadau’r rhieni. Ail orau fyddai dirprwyo hyn i awdurdodau iechyd ardal, yn enwedig os ydynt am ddod yn fyrddau iechyd, pan fydd 22 ohonynt ar hyd a lled Cymru. Gall hynny o bosibl arwain at ragnodi ail sbectol yn ôl côd post, fel y gwneir ynghylch materion eraill. Dylem ddibynnu ar ddisgresiwn yr optegydd.
Jane Hutt The Minister for Health and Social Services spoken in English p. 80
Jane Hutt Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 80
I support the spirit of the motion tabled by Pauline Jarman, which seeks to permit opticians to supply second sets of optical appliances to certain children and patients under the age of 19 in full time education, and thank her for recognising the eye care needs and health of our children. However, to clarify the position, where there is a clinical need, this provision is presently available to patients through the general ophthalmic service. Health authorities have the discretion to authorise this by virtue of guidance published by the Welsh Office in 1997. This has allowed the NHS to meet patient demand since then.
Cefnogaf ysbryd y cynnig a gyflwynwyd gan Pauline Jarman, sy’n ceisio galluogi optegwyr i gyflenwi ail sbectol i rai plant a chleifion o dan 19 oed sydd mewn addysg amser llawn, a diolchaf iddi am gydnabod anghenion ac iechyd gofal llygaid ein plant. Fodd bynnag, er mwyn egluro’r sefyllfa, lle bynnag fo angen clinigol, mae’r ddarpariaeth hon ar gael ar hyn o bryd i gleifion drwy gyfrwng y gwasanaeth offthalmig cyffredinol. Mae gan awdurdodau iechyd y disgresiwn i awdurdodi hyn drwy gyfrwng y canllawiau a gyhoeddwyd gan y Swyddfa Gymreig yn 1997. Mae hyn wedi galluogi’r GIG i ddiwallu anghenion cleifion ers hynny.
I have concerns about introducing legislation when health authorities have procedures in place to assess applications based on clinical need for a second set of glasses. In Wales, Geraint, nearly 600 ophthalmic practitioners undertake services on behalf of the NHS. If we introduce legislation allowing them to deliver this provision at their own discretion, with no reference to a health authority, it could result in a fragmented approach and undermine the access that currently exists on the basis of clinical need. We must acknowledge the advantages to be gained through regular sight testing, to which Kirsty alluded. Frequency of testing and subsequent dispensing should safeguard the provision of a suitable spare set for those most at risk and dependent, particularly when changes in the strength of prescription from one test to the next is negligible. Additionally, it must be recognised that the optometric profession in the high street is usually able, as Kirsty said, to deliver repair services for frames and lenses within 24 hours, which further minimises disruption to the patient in the event of breakage.
Mae gennyf bryderon ynghylch cyflwyno deddfwriaeth pan fo gan awdurdodau iechyd weithdrefnau ar waith i asesu ceisiadau yn seiliedig ar angen clinigol am ail sbectol. Yng Nghymru, Geraint, mae bron 600 o ymarferwyr offthalmig yn cynnal gwasanaethau ar ran y GIG. Pe byddem yn cyflwyno deddfwriaeth yn eu caniatáu i gyflwyno’r ddarpariaeth hon yn ôl eu disgresiwn eu hunain, heb gyfeirio at awdurdod iechyd, gallai arwain at ymagwedd anghyson a thanseilio’r mynediad sy’n bodoli ar hyn o bryd ar sail angen clinigol. Rhaid i ni gydnabod y manteision sydd i’w cael drwy gyfrwng profion llygaid rheolaidd, y cyfeiriodd Kirsty atynt. Dylai amledd profion llygaid a’r gwaith o ddosbarthu sbectolau o ganlyniad ddiogelu darpariaeth ail sbectol addas ar gyfer y rhai sydd fwyaf mewn perygl ac sydd fwyaf dibynnol, yn arbennig pan nad oes fawr o newid yng nghryfder y presgripsiwn o un prawf i’r llall. Yn ogystal, rhaid cydnabod bod optometryddion y stryd fawr fel arfer, fel y dywedodd Kirsty, yn gallu trwsio fframiau a lensys o fewn 24 awr, sy’n lleihau’r tarfu ar y claf pe bai ei sbectol yn torri.
We have just heard Geraint argue that this motion, if carried, would avoid postcode prescribing. Would not giving that sort of discretion to optometrists create postcode prescribing rather than avoid it?
Clywsom Geraint ychydig yn ôl yn dadlau y byddai’r cynnig hwn, pe bai’n cael ei dderbyn, yn osgoi rhagnodi yn ôl côd post. Oni fyddai rhoi’r math hwnnw o ddisgresiwn i optometryddion yn creu rhagnodi yn ôl côd post yn hytrach na’i osgoi?
My concern is for the 600 professionals, and the position in which it places them. There has been no pressure or representation from the profession for this provision. That is important. They recognise, in terms of their professional standards and circumstances, that they also need to be able to abide by the guidance that enables them to consider clinical need. As you said, David, this has not been at the forefront of health issues that have come before us when we have discussed and pioneered eye care initiatives in the Health and Social Services Committee.
Mae fy mhryder i yn ymwneud â’r 600 o weithwyr proffesiynol, a’r sefyllfa y cânt eu rhoi ynddi. Ni fu pwysau na sylwadau gan y proffesiwn ar gyfer y ddarpariaeth hon. Mae hynny’n bwysig. Maent yn cydnabod, o ran eu safonau proffesiynol a’u hamgylchiadau, bod angen iddynt hwythau ymlynu wrth yr arweiniad sy’n eu galluogi i ystyried angen clinigol. Fel y dywedasoch, David, ni fu hyn yn amlwg ymysg y materion iechyd a ddaeth ger ein bron pan fuom yn trafod ac yn arloesi mentrau gofal llygaid yn y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol.
David Melding said earlier that we do not know how often children break their glasses. As someone who taught for 30 years I can tell you that it is a common occurrence for children to come to school without their spectacles if they are broken. Their learning suffers for a long time as a result until they get them repaired or replaced. Do you not agree that the bureaucratic measures of transferring this problem to a health authority to consider is not only time wasting and money wasting, but also means that children are suffering in the meantime? The proposal put forward, with which you should agree, Minister, will benefit children. We should have the same trust in opticians that we have in doctors to make decisions of a similar nature.
Dywedodd David Melding yn gynharach na wyddom pa mor aml y mae plant yn torri eu sbectol. Fel rhywun a fu’n addysgu am 30 mlynedd gallaf ddweud ei fod yn arferol i blant ddod i’r ysgol heb eu sbectol os ydynt wedi torri. Mae eu dysgu’n dioddef am amser hir o ganlyniad hyd nes y cânt eu trwsio neu hyd nes y cânt sbectol arall. Oni chytunwch fod y mesurau biwrocrataidd o drosglwyddo’r broblem hon i awdurdod iechyd ei hystyried yn gwastraffu arian ac amser, a’i fod hefyd yn golygu bod plant yn dioddef yn y cyfamser? Bydd y cynnig a gyflwynwyd, y dylech gytuno ag ef, Weinidog, o fudd i blant. Dylem gael yr un ffydd mewn optegwyr ag sydd gennym mewn meddygon i wneud penderfyniadau tebyg.
Interestingly, Owen John, when Dai Lloyd spoke, he recognised that there was a need for strong, clear guidance if your legislation went through. He recognised that his prescriptions must be audited and forwarded. In terms of clinical governance we would want to ensure that prescriptions are forwarded and audited. As Dai said, the same kind of audit would have to take place with the implementation of this kind of legislation. This goes back to clinical need, clinical governance, and to the fact, as I have already mentioned, that flexibility exists. We must also respect our professionals—the optometrists who are flexible and are able to meet the needs and circumstances of children and young people.
Yn ddiddorol, Owen John, pan siaradodd Dai Lloyd, yr oedd yn cydnabod bod angen canllawiau cryf ac eglur pe bai eich deddfwriaeth yn cael ei derbyn. Yr oedd yn cydnabod fod angen archwilio a throsglwyddo ei bresgripsiynau. O ran rheolaeth glinigol byddem am sicrhau bod presgripsiynau yn cael eu trosglwyddo a’u harchwilio. Fel y dywedodd Dai, byddai’r un math o archwiliad yn gorfod cael ei gyflawni wrth weithredu’r math hon o ddeddfwriaeth. Â hyn yn ôl at angen clinigol, ac at y ffaith, fel y soniais eisoes, fod hyblygrwydd yn bodoli. Rhaid i ni hefyd barchu ein gweithwyr proffesiynol—yr optometryddion sy’n hyblyg ac sy’n gallu ymateb i anghenion ac amgylchiadau plant a phobl ifanc.
We need to consider the spirit and intention behind Pauline Jarman’s proposal for legislation. I have met Pauline, and have said that we can strengthen the guidance, which is outlined in the Government’s amendment 1. Pauline is not prepared to withdraw her motion based on the fact that I am prepared to strengthen the guidance and, as there is interest in this, bring it back to the Assembly when we have drafted that revised guidance. You have usefully drawn attention to the fact that we need to enable children and young people to obtain a second pair of spectacles when their circumstances make it necessary. However, the revised guidance should clarify, if it is necessary to do so, equality of access to a second pair of spectacles, as I have suggested. That is what I would undertake to do.
Rhaid inni ystyried yr ysbryd a’r bwriad y tu ôl i gynnig Pauline Jarman ar gyfer deddfwriaeth. Cyfarfûm â Pauline, a dywedais y gallem gryfhau’r canllawiau, a amlinellir yng ngwelliant 1 y Llywodraeth. Nid yw Pauline yn barod i dynnu ei chynnig yn ôl yn seiliedig ar y ffaith fy mod yn barod i gryfhau’r canllawiau a, chan fod diddordeb yn hyn, ddod ag ef gerbron y Cynulliad eto pan fyddwn wedi drafftio’r arweiniad diwygiedig hwnnw. Yr ydych wedi tynnu sylw at y ffaith bod angen i ni alluogi plant a phobl ifanc i gael ail sbectol pan fo’u hamgylchiadau yn peri bod angen hynny. Fodd bynnag, dylai’r canllawiau diwygiedig egluro, os oes angen gwneud hynny, gan bwy y mae’r hawl i gael ail bâr o sbectol, fel yr awgrymais. Dyna’r hyn yr addewais ei wneud.
I have given you my assurance, Pauline, that as a result of your bringing this forward I will revise and strengthen the guidance. Therefore, I ask Members to support the administration’s amendment 1. That amendment requires opticians to seek the approval of the health authorities before supplying a second pair of glasses. That is the best way that we can ensure that patients’ interests are best served, while supporting the spirit and intention of Pauline’s motion.
Rhoddais fy sicrwydd i chi, Pauline, y byddaf yn diwygio ac yn cryfhau’r canllawiau hyn o ganlyniad i’r ffaith i chi gyflwyno’r mater. Felly, gofynnaf i Aelodau gefnogi gwelliant 1 y weinyddiaeth. Mae’r gwelliant hwnnw yn ei gweud yn ofynnol i optegwyr geisio cymeradwyaeth gan yr awdurdodau iechyd cyn cyflenwi ail sbectol. Dyna’r ffordd orau y gallwn sicrhau ein bod yn gweithredu er budd gorau cleifion, tra’n cefnogi ysbryd a bwriad cynnig Pauline.
Today’s decision to accept the principle and objective, as set out in my motion, is just the first part in the process. It is then up to the Minister to bring forward draft subordinate legislation with national guidelines for its implementation, which could embrace the concerns expressed by other Members. It is worth repeating that we should trust the professional judgment of optometrists and ophthalmic opticians to act in the best interest of their patients. I do not accept the argument that, because they are self-employed, independent contractors, they should not be given the freedom to exercise their discretion when prescribing a second pair of glasses.
Dim ond rhan gyntaf y broses yw’r penderfyniad heddiw i dderbyn yr egwyddor a’r amcan, fel y nodwyd yn fy nghynnig. Cyfrifoldeb y Gweinidog wedyn fydd cyflwyno is-ddeddfwriaeth ddrafft gyda chanllawiau cenedlaethol ar gyfer ei gweithredu, a allai gynnwys y pryderon a fynegwyd gan Aelodau eraill. Mae’n werth ailadrodd y dylem ymddiried ym marn broffesiynol optometryddion ac optegwyr offthalmig i weithredu er budd gorau eu cleifion. Er eu bod yn gontractwyr hunan-gyflogedig, annibynnol, ni dderbyniaf y ddadl na ddylent gael y rhyddid i arfer eu disgresiwn wrth ragnodi ail sbectol.
Perhaps you could clarify how an optician would anticipate the likelihood of an accident?
Efallai y gallech egluro sut y byddai optegydd yn rhagweld y byddai damwain yn debygol o ddigwydd?
It is up to the Minister to consider and examine ways of ensuring that the issue of a second pair of spectacles is dealt with appropriately.
Y Gweinidog fydd yn ystyried ac yn archwilio ffyrdd o sicrhau yr ymdrinnir â mater ail sbectol yn briodol.
GPs are also self-employed, independent contractors who prescribe according to patients’ needs. We have trust and confidence in them. We should display equal confidence in optometrists and ophthalmic opticians and ensure that there is never a risk of a child suffering for want of a second pair of glasses.
Mae meddygon teulu hefyd yn gontractwyr hunan-gyflogedig, annibynnol sy’n rhagnodi yn ôl anghenion cleifion. Mae gennym ymddiriedaeth a ffydd ynddynt. Dylem ddangos yr un hyder mewn optometryddion ac optegwyr offthalmig a sicrhau nad oes perygl byth y bydd plentyn yn dioddef oherwydd diffyg ail bâr o sbectol.
Gwelliant 1 Jane Hutt t. 83
Amendment 1 Jane Hutt p. 83
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 34 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 10
Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (34)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Eleanor Burnham
- Christine Chapman
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- Val Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Jenny Randerson
- Peter Rogers
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Kirsty Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (10)
- Geraint Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Brian Hancock
- Pauline Jarman
- Elin Jones
- David Lloyd
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Phil Williams
Cynnig wedi’i ddiwygio Pauline Jarman t. 84
Amended motion Pauline Jarman p. 84
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 45 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig wedi’i ddiwygio.
Amended motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (45)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Eleanor Burnham
- Christine Chapman
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Brian Hancock
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- Elin Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- David Lloyd
- Val Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Jenny Randerson
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Kirsty Williams
- Phil Williams
Dadl Fer
Short Debate
Mae’n Iaith i Mi ac Mae’n Iaith i Tithau
It is My Language and it is Your Language
Derbyniais geisiadau gan Owen John Thomas, Glyn Davies, Eleanor Burnham a John Griffiths i gyfrannu i’r ddadl, a diolchaf i’r pedwar am eu diddordeb yn y pwnc hwn.
I have received requests from Owen John Thomas, Glyn Davies, Eleanor Burnham and John Griffiths to contribute to the debate, and I thank them for their interest in this subject.
Wrth inni sefydlu ein hunain fel Cynulliad, mae’n bwysig inni ystyried pwy ydym ni, sut yr ydym yn gweld ein hunain a beth sydd angen ei gadw a’i ddatblygu er mwyn inni gynnal ein hunaniaeth. Un o’r ffactorau—a phwysleisiaf mai un ffactor ydyw—sy’n gyfrifol am bwy ydym ni, yw’r iaith Gymraeg. Yn wahanol i’r rhan fwyaf o weddill y Deyrnas Gyfunol, mae Cymru yn wlad ddwyieithog. Dylem ymfalchïo yn hynny, gan weithio felly i sicrhau bod dwyieithrwydd yn ffactor sydd yn ein huno, nid yn ein gwahanu. Yr ydym yn rhan o un gymdeithas. Nid yw’r iaith yn perthyn i un ran ddaearyddol o Gymru. Mae rhywbeth arbennig am bob cymuned yng Nghymru, ac mae rhywbeth arbennig am yr iaith ym mhob cymuned. Dyna pam mae anghenion ieithyddol pob cymuned yn amrywio, ond mae gan bob cymuned, o Wauncaegurwen i Waunfawr, o Flaenau Ffestiniog i Flaenau Gwent, yr anghenion hynny.
As we establish ourselves as an Assembly, it is important that we consider who we are, how we see ourselves and what needs to be preserved and developed so that we maintain our identity. One of the factors—and I stress that it is only one factor—that makes us who we are is the Welsh language. Unlike most other parts of the United Kingdom, Wales is a bilingual country. We should be proud of that, and therefore work to ensure that bilingualism is a factor that unites rather than divides us. We are part of one society. The language does not belong to one geographical region of Wales. There is something special about every community in Wales, and there is something special about the language in every community. That is why the linguistic needs of every community differ, but every community, from Gwauncaegurwen to Waunfawr, from Blaenau Ffestiniog to Blaenau Gwent, has those needs.
Merch o’r Cymoedd ydw i, o Wauncaegurwen. Iaith y gwaith a iaith y cwrdd, iaith y clwb a iaith cyngherddau oedd, ac yw, y Gymraeg yno. Nid oedd dim byd elitaidd yn ein defnydd o’r Gymraeg; yr oedd yn iaith i bawb. Mae’n drueni bod rhai wedi creu elfen o elitiaeth iaith. Yr wyf yn gwrthwynebu elitiaeth o unrhyw fath, ac nid yw’r rhai sy’n ceisio sicrhau mai iaith i nifer cyfyngedig yw’r Gymraeg yn gwneud dim lles iddi. Ystyriwch, er enghraifft, dwf addysg drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg, y dylem oll ymfalchïo ynddo. Mae safon yr addysg a’r cyfleoedd sy’n deillio ohoni yn bwysig. Mae’r twf yn y De yn profi bod rhieni di-Gymraeg am i’w plant gael addysg Gymraeg. Mae’n ddyletswydd ar y Cynulliad i hybu’r cyfleoedd er mwyn meithrin dwyieithrwydd ymarferol.
I am a Valleys girl, from Gwauncaegurwen, where Welsh was, and is, the language of work and of the chapel, the language of the club and of concerts. There was nothing elitist in our use of Welsh; it was everyone’s language. It is a shame that some have created an element of language elitism. I am opposed to all forms of elitism, and those who try to ensure that the use of Welsh is limited to a minority are doing the language a disservice. Consider, for example, the growth of Welsh-medium education, of which we should all be proud. The standard of education and the opportunities it provides are important. The growth in south Wales proves that non-Welsh speaking parents want their children to receive a Welsh-medium education. It is the Assembly’s duty to promote opportunities to foster practical bilingualism.
Er fy mod yn newid gair neu ddau, mae cân enwog yn y Gymraeg yn dweud ei bod yn ‘iaith i mi, ac yn iaith i tithau’.
Although I paraphrase, there is a famous Welsh song that says that it is ‘a language for me, and a language for you’.
Mae hynny’n wir. Bellach, y nod yw sicrhau bod pob cyfundrefn yn rhoi lle teilwng i’r iaith yn ei gweithgareddau. Mae hyn yn digwydd. Yr wyf yn falch fod y Cynulliad yn cynnal arolwg o safle’r iaith ar ddechrau canrif newydd, gan edrych ymlaen at ddyfodol llewyrchus.
That is true. The aim now is to ensure that every institution gives the language its rightful place in its activities. This is happening. I am pleased that the Assembly is conducting a review of the language’s position at the beginning of a new century, while looking forward to a prosperous future.
Yr wyf hefyd yn falch fod Pwyllgorau eraill yn y Cynulliad yn rhoi’r Gymraeg ar eu hagendâu. Mae’r Pwyllgor yr wyf i’n gadeirydd arno wedi ystyried y mater, ac mae’r Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd hefyd wedi trafod rôl y Gymraeg yn y maes hollbwysig hwnnw. Dyma yw’r ffordd ymlaen; chwalu muriau ffug y mae rhai wedi ceisio eu hadeiladu, gan ehangu gorwelion ieithyddol. Dyna sut y gallwn ddileu culni ieithyddol a chynyddu’r teimlad o berchenogaeth.
I am also pleased that other Assembly Committees are putting the Welsh language on their agendas. The Committee that I chair has considered this issue, and the Economic Development Committee has also discussed the language’s role in that crucial area. This is the way forward; breaking down false barriers that some have tried to build, thus expanding linguistic horizons. That is how we will be able to put an end to linguistic bigotry and increase the feeling of ownership.
Mae angen gwario creadigol er mwyn cyflawni hynny, nid ar amddiffyn y traddodiadau ieithyddol, ond ar gynyddu’r cyfleoedd. Mae angen ystyried gwariant presennol hefyd, i sicrhau bod yr iaith yn elwa ym mhob ffordd bosibl. Yr oeddwn yn falch o glywed am yr arbrawf diddorol yn Abergwaun, lle mae Bwrdd yr Iaith Gymraeg, yr awdurdod lleol, Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru, Urdd Gobaith Cymru a’r Mudiad Ysgolion Meithrin ac yn y blaen, yn trafod eu hamrywiol gyfraniadau i’r gwaith o ddiwallu anghenion penodol yr ardal. Maent hefyd yn sicrhau bod eu cyfraniadau yn cael eu plethu i greu cyfleoedd newydd. Mae gan bawb gyfraniad i’w wneud—o’r clwb i’r cwrdd, ac wrth weithio neu wrth gymdeithasu.
We need creative spending in order to achieve that aim, not on preserving linguistic traditions, but on increasing opportunities. We must also consider current expenditure, to ensure that the language benefits in every way possible. I was pleased to hear about the interesting experiment in Fishguard, where the Welsh Language Board, the local authority, the Welsh Development Agency, Urdd Gobaith Cymru and Mudiad Ysgolion Meithrin and so on, are discussing their various contributions to the work of meeting specific local needs. They are also ensuring that their contributions are interwoven to create new opportunities. Everyone has a contribution to make—from the club to the chapel, and while working and socialising.
Ni allaf i na neb arall ail-greu Gwauncaegurwen fy ieuenctid, gwaetha’r modd. Efallai na ddylwn i ddweud ‘gwaetha’r modd’; mae gofynion yn newid, a’n rôl ni yn y Cynulliad, ac eraill yn ein cymunedau, yw cynorthwyo yn y gwaith o ateb gofynion heddiw ac yfory. Ni ddylem edrych yn hiraethus ar ddoe. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod y rhai sy’n darparu gwasanaethau yn ein cymunedau yn ystyried o ddifrif ofynion ieithyddol y trigolion.
Unfortunately, I cannot recreate the Gwauncaegurwen of my youth, nor can anyone else. Perhaps I should not consider that to be unfortunate; requirements change, and the Assembly, and others in our communities, have a role to play in responding to the requirements of today and tomorrow. We should not look longingly to yesterday. We must ensure that service providers in our communities consider seriously the linguistic requirements of the residents.
Trof at feysydd iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol. Ni ddylai darpariaeth drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg fod yn ddewisol yn unig yn y ddau faes hyn. Mae lle i wella, er mwyn sicrhau nad yw’r henoed, y rhai sy’n dioddef afiechyd neu ag arnynt angen cymorth y gwasanaethau cymdeithasol—y bobl hynny sydd, oherwydd gwahanol amgylchiadau, angen cymorth ac, o ganlyniad, sydd mewn sefyllfa o ofid yn aml—yn dioddef pwysau dianghenraid. Mae modd ysgafnhau’r pwysau lle bo’r iaith dan sylw a, thrwy wneud hynny, byddwn yn cydnabod pwysigrwydd gofynion ieithyddol yn y meysydd sensitif hyn. Nid oes modd gwneud hynny bob amser ac ym mhob maes, ond dylem osod nod o gynnydd, a gwn fod Jane Hutt wedi dangos arweiniad yn hyn o beth. Y claf sy’n bwysig, a’i ofynion ef ddylai ddod yn gyntaf. I’r ifanc, ac i’r henoed yn arbennig, mae’r gallu i gyfathrebu yn eu mamiaith yn aml yn allweddol. Mae angen darganfod ffyrdd o oresgyn problemau, nid dadlau nad oes modd eu datrys.
I turn to the areas of health and social care. Welsh-medium provision should not merely be optional in these areas. There is room for improvement, to ensure that the elderly, those suffering ill-health or who need the help of social services—those people who, because of different circumstances, need help and, as a result, are often distressed—are not burdened unnecessarily. It is possible to lift that burden to some extent where language is concerned, and doing so would be to acknowledge the importance of linguistic requirements in these sensitive areas. It is not possible to do that all of the time and in all areas, but we should aim for improvement and I know that Jane Hutt has taken a lead in this. It is the patients who are important, and their needs should come first. Being able to communicate in their first language is often essential for young children and for the elderly in particular. We need to find ways to overcome problems, not argue that they cannot be solved.
Cyfeiriais at bwysigrwydd y gymuned, ac at weithio o fewn y gymuned. Cefais y cyfle i fod yn rhan o sefydlu Menter Iaith Aman Tawe, un o’r nifer o fentrau iaith sydd bellach yn bodoli ledled Cymru. Y nod oedd ail-greu brwdfrydedd ieithyddol a rhoi hunan-hyder ieithyddol i drigolion Cwm Aman a Chwm Tawe, dwy ardal lle mae traddodiad ieithyddol wedi bod yn rhan annatod o’r gwead cymdeithasol. Mae’r fenter wedi bod yn gatalydd gwerthfawr i ail-danio brwdfrydedd, ac yn atodiad gwerthfawr i waith gwych ysgolion a Mudiad Ysgolion Meithrin. Mae’n cynnig cyfle newydd i bobl ailafael yn yr iaith.
I referred to the importance of the community and of working within the community. I had the opportunity to be part of establishing Menter Iaith Aman Tawe, one of the many mentrau iaith that now exist throughout Wales. The aim was to renew enthusiasm for the language and to give self-confidence to the people of the Amman and Swansea valleys, two areas where linguistic tradition has been an integral part of the social make-up. The menter has been a valuable catalyst in rekindling enthusiasm and is a valuable addition to the excellent work carried out by schools and Mudiad Ysgolion Meithrin. It gives people a new opportunity to re-engage with the language.
Fodd bynnag, nid ailafael yn unig sydd ei angen bellach. Gyda’r twf mewn addysg Gymraeg a dwyieithog, a’r Gymraeg yn rhan o’r cwricwlwm cenedlaethol, mae’r pwyslais ar beidio â cholli gafael—sef yr hyn a ddigwyddodd dros ddwy genhedlaeth—yn bwysig. Mae cynllun fel y cynllun trosglwyddo iaith yn hollbwysig. Yr wyf yn canmol Bwrdd yr Iaith Gymraeg am ei weledigaeth o annog rhieni i drosglwyddo’r iaith i’w plant. Yr wyf yn falch fod y Cynulliad wedi sicrhau cyllid ychwanegol i alluogi’r bwrdd i weithredu’r cynllun. Nid yw pawb yn Gymraes naturiol fel fi; dyna fy mraint.
However, it is not only re-engagement that is now required. Given the growth in Welsh and bilingual education, and the fact that Welsh is part of the national curriculum, the emphasis on not losing the language—which is what happened over two generations—is vital. Schemes such as the language transfer scheme are essential. I praise the Welsh Language Board for its vision in persuading parents to transfer the language to their children. I am glad that the Assembly secured extra funding to enable the board to implement that scheme. Not everyone is a natural Welsh speaker such as myself; that is my privilege.
Yr wyf am i holl wleidyddion etholedig y Cynulliad o bob plaid sicrhau bod yr iaith ar gael i bawb. Mae’r iaith yno i bawb. Y nod yw cymell mwy o glosio at y Gymraeg o ddewis. Llongyfarchaf fy nghyd-Aelodau o bob plaid sy’n dysgu Cymraeg; nid yw hynny’n hawdd. Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn cefnogi’r dysgwyr ac yn sicrhau bod y Gymraeg ar gael i bawb, beth bynnag fo’u hoed.
I want all Assembly elected politicians of all parties to ensure that the language is made available to everyone. The language is there for everyone. The aim is to encourage people to take an interest in the language out of choice. I congratulate my colleagues from every party who are learning Welsh; it is not easy. It is important that we support those who learn Welsh and ensure that the Welsh language is accessible to all, whatever their age.
Mae hyn yn hollbwysig yn ystod blynyddoedd ysgol. Nid dewis oes yw dewis cyfrwng addysg. Y rhieni sydd â’r dewis cynharaf, ond ni ddylai’r dewis cyntaf gyfyngu ar yr unigolyn. Rhaid cael ffyrdd i mewn i’r Gymraeg a sicrhau bod darpariaeth briodol ar gael i’r rhai sy’n dewis dysgu ar wahanol lefelau. Rhaid sicrhau nad yw pobl yn cael eu cyfyngu gydol eu hoes oherwydd penderfyniadau a wnaethpwyd yn gynnar yn eu hoes. Mae amgylchiadau’n newid ac nid yw’n bosibl rhagweld beth fydd agwedd plentyn tair oed tuag at y Gymraeg pan fydd yn ei arddegau. Rhaid peidio ag amddifadu pobl o’r cyfle. Rhaid inni fod yn barod i ddarparu ar gyfer gwahanol ofynion a derbyn nad ein hysgolion Cymraeg yw’r unig fynedfa ieithyddol.
That is essential during school years. The choice of the medium of your education should not be a choice for life. Parents have the earliest choice, but that first choice should not limit the individual. We must ensure that the Welsh language is accessible and we must secure provision for those who wish to learn at whatever level. We must ensure that people are not limited for the rest of their lives because of decisions made in early life. Circumstances change and it is not possible to predict what a three-year-old’s attitude towards the Welsh language will be when he or she is a teenager. We must not deprive anyone of the opportunity. We must be prepared to provide for different needs and accept that our Welsh schools are not the only linguistic gateways.
Mae’r hyn sydd yn cymell rhywun i agosáu at yr iaith, neu bellhau oddi wrthi, yn fater cymhleth. Ni allwn anwybyddu gofidiau pobl. Ni allwn ddweud bod rhywun sy’n gofyn cwestiwn er mwyn ceisio gwybodaeth yn wrth-Gymreig. Yn yr un modd, ni ddylem gondemnio pryder gwirioneddol Cymry Cymraeg. Mae eithafiaeth, o’r naill gyfeiriad neu’r llall, yn beryglus. Er hynny, mae tir canol, ond ni fydd yn ffrwythloni heb ofal. Mae gan y Cynulliad, yn ganolog a chyda phartneriaid mewn sawl maes, gyfle i gydweithio a sicrhau bod yr iaith yn ffrwythloni yn y tir canol hwnnw. Gallwn ddangos arweiniad; mae gennym gyfle i wneud hynny a dylem wneud hynny, yn seiliedig ar egwyddor cydraddoldeb.
The factors that determine why you warm to the language, or distance yourself from it, are complicated. We cannot ignore people’s concerns. We cannot accuse someone who asks a question to get information of being anti-Welsh. By the same token, we should not condemn the real concern of Welsh speakers. Extremism, on either side, is dangerous. However, there is a middle ground, but it will not flourish without care. The Assembly, centrally and through its partners in several domains, has the opportunity to ensure that the language flourishes on that middle ground. We can lead the way; we have the opportunity to do so and we should do so, based on the principle of equality.
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 89
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 89
There will not be enough time for Members to speak unless everyone sticks to the maximum of 45 seconds each.
Ni fydd digon o amser i bob Aelod siarad oni bai fod pawb yn glynu at y mwyafswm o 45 eiliad yr un.
Bydd rhaid i mi siarad yn gyflym. Croesawaf eiriau cadarnhaol Gwenda. Yr oedd yn araith drawsbleidiol ar bwnc trawsbleidiol, sef yr iaith. Fodd bynnag, mae un pwnc sy’n gysylltiedig â’r iaith wedi fy mhoeni ers tro. Erbyn 2004, bydd angen cynnydd o 10 y cant yn nifer y plant sy’n dysgu drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg, ac felly bydd angen llawer mwy o athrawon. Tynnaf eich sylw at hynny. Plant bach yn dysgu Cymraeg yn ystod eu blynyddoedd cynnar yw ein gobaith mwyaf o sicrhau dyfodol i’r iaith Gymraeg. Mae llai o athrawon Cymraeg eu hiaith yn ymgymryd â gwaith dysgu eleni nag erioed o’r blaen. Mae’n hen bryd i’r Llywodraeth gymryd camau pendant i gynyddu nifer yr athrawon Cymraeg, neu bydd pob gobaith sydd gennym yn diflannu.
I will have to be brief. I welcome Gwenda’s positive words. It was a cross-party speech on a cross-party issue, namely the Welsh language. However, I have been worried about an issue related to the Welsh language for a while. By 2004, the number of children in Welsh-medium education must increase by 10 per cent, and far more teachers will therefore be needed. I want to draw attention to that. Young children learning Welsh during their early years are our greatest hope of securing a future for the Welsh language. Fewer Welsh-speaking teachers are entering the profession this year than ever before. It is high time that the Government took positive steps to increase the number of Welsh-speaking teachers, otherwise any hope we have will be lost.
The Welsh language is a beautiful thing: much cherished, yet fragile and vulnerable. Over the past 15 months, I have almost learned to speak this wonderful language, and through speaking it, I have discovered a part of myself that I did not know existed. When I hear the language expressed through music, I find the sheer pleasure and sensuousness of it almost unbearable. I want as many people as possible to experience that same pleasure.
Mae’r iaith Gymraeg yn beth hardd: yn hoff ac annwyl iawn, eto’n fregus ac mewn perygl. Yn ystod y 15 mis diwethaf, bûm bron â dysgu’r iaith ryfeddol hon a, thrwy ei siarad, darganfûm ran o fy hun na wyddwn ei bod yn bodoli. Pan glywaf yr iaith yn cael ei mynegi drwy gerddoriaeth, teimlaf fod y pleser pur a’r synwyrusrwydd bron yn annioddefol. Yr wyf am i gymaint o bobl â phosibl brofi’r un pleser hwnnw.
Gwenda, it is my language now, and I join you in your commitment to encourage as many others as possible to share its magic, and ensure that it remains a treasured, living part of our Wales.
Gwenda, mae’n iaith i mi bellach, ac ymunaf â chi yn eich ymrwymiad i annog cymaint â phosibl o bobl eraill i rannu ei hud, a sicrhau ei bod yn parhau yn rhan werthfawr, fyw o’n Cymru ni.
Eleanor Burnham siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 89
Eleanor Burnham spoken in Welsh and English p. 89
Fel person arall sy’n ailafael yn yr iaith, croesawaf ddewis Gwenda o bwnc y ddadl fer heddiw. Mae ein plaid wedi sefydlu gweithgor, a gadeirir gan Roger Roberts, sydd yn ystyried mater yr iaith drwy Gymru.
in Welsh As another who is rediscovering the language, I welcome Gwenda’s choice of topic for today’s short debate. Our party has formed a working party, chaired by Roger Roberts, which is considering the issue of the language throughout Wales.
It is important for all Members that the Culture Committee’s work succeeds and ensures that the Assembly is perceived as taking effective action. Otherwise, calls such as those on the front page of The Western Mail for a formal investigation will grow, and the development of the Welsh language will have to undergo further analysis paralysis rather than effective and positive action, which the majority in this Chamber would happily support.
yn Saesneg Mae’n bwysig i bob Aelod fod gwaith y Pwyllgor Diwylliant yn llwyddo ac yn sicrhau bod y Cynulliad yn cael ei weld yn gweithredu’n effeithiol. Fel arall, bydd y galwadau am ymchwiliad ffurfiol megis y rhai ar dudalen flaen The Western Mail yn cynyddu, a bydd yn rhaid i’r iaith Gymraeg ddioddef rhagor o ddadansoddi a dim gweithredu yn hytrach na’r gweithredu effeithiol a chadarnhaol y byddai'r mwyafrif yn y Siambr hon yn falch o’i gefnogi.
John Griffiths siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 90
John Griffiths spoken in Welsh and English p. 90
Yr wyf wedi bod yn dysgu Cymraeg ers blynyddoedd a gobeithiaf fod yn rhugl cyn bo hir.
in Welsh I have been learning Welsh for years and hope to be fluent soon.
I hope that we can continue to grow and strengthen the Welsh language in those areas where its use is weaker, such as south-east Wales, so that youngsters going to school in Newport today, for example, will have better opportunities than I and my contemporaries experienced.
yn Saesneg Gobeithiaf y gall yr iaith Gymraeg barhau i dyfu a chryfhau yn yr ardaloedd hynny lle gwneir llai o ddefnydd ohoni, megis de-ddwyrain Cymru, fel y gall pobl ifanc sy’n mynd i’r ysgol yng Nghasnewydd heddiw, er enghraifft, gael gwell cyfleoedd nag a gefais i a’m cyfoedion.
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 90
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 90
Order. We have had 15 minutes and must move on.
Trefn. Cawsom 15 munud eisoes a rhaid inni symud ymlaen.
Jenny Randerson The Minister for Culture, Sport and the Welsh Language spoken in English p. 90
Jenny Randerson Y Gweinidog dros Ddiwylliant, Chwaraeon a’r Iaith Gymraeg siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 90
I thank Gwenda for choosing this subject for debate today, and for giving the Welsh language the centre stage it deserves in our discussions. At the turn of the year, when I was thinking about the year ahead and planning what I hoped we would achieve, ‘sort out the Welsh language’ was at the top of the list. If only it were that easy. The more deeply I reflected on the future of the language, the more convinced I became that the aims of developing a bilingual society and sustaining Welsh as a community language require a cross-cutting approach. In Wales we can point to genuine success in fostering bilingualism. We have stemmed the decline in the proportion of Welsh speakers, but I am also aware that the sub-regional picture in Wales, over the past 40 years, reveals that the language has declined in its traditional heartlands, while experiencing a revival in traditionally anglicised areas of Wales. As the First Minister has made clear in the past, Welsh language decline has been a symptom of economic and social decline rather than a linguistic policy failure. I believe that our commitment to sustainability for the Welsh language forms part of a wider policy response that seeks to ensure sustainable communities across Wales, and an approach which cuts across most Assembly competencies in an increasingly globalised and mobile economic and social climate.
Diolchaf i Gwenda am ddewis y pwnc hwn i gynnal dadl arno heddiw, ac am roi sylw haeddiannol i’r iaith Gymraeg yn ein trafodaethau. Ar ddechrau’r flwyddyn, pan oeddwn yn ystyried y flwyddyn o’m blaen ac yn cynllunio’r hyn y gobeithiwn y byddem yn ei gyflawni, yr oedd ‘rhoi trefn ar yr iaith Gymraeg’ ar frig fy rhestr. O na fyddai mor hawdd â hynny. Po ddwysaf fy myfyrdodau ar ddyfodol yr iaith, y mwyaf argyhoeddedig yr oeddwn fod y nod o ddatblygu cymdeithas ddwyieithog a chynnal Cymraeg fel iaith gymunedol yn gofyn am ymagwedd drawsbynciol. Yng Nghymru gallwn nodi llwyddiant gwirioneddol o ran meithrin dwyieithrwydd. Yr ydym wedi atal y dirywiad o ran cyfran y siaradwyr Cymraeg, ond yr wyf hefyd yn ymwybodol bod y darlun is-ranbarthol yng Nghymru yn datgelu bod yr iaith wedi dirywio yn ei chadarnleoedd traddodiadol, tra’n adfywio mewn rhannau traddodiadol Seisnig o Gymru, yn ystod y 40 mlynedd diwethaf. Fel yr eglurodd y Prif Weinidog yn y gorffennol, bu dirywiad yr iaith Gymraeg yn symptom o ddirywiad economaidd a chymdeithasol yn hytrach na methiant polisi ieithyddol. Credaf fod ein hymrwymiad tuag at gynaliadwyedd yr iaith Gymraeg yn rhan o ymateb polisi ehangach sy’n ceisio sicrhau cymunedau cynaliadwy ar draws Cymru, ac ymagwedd sy’n rhychwantu’r rhan fwyaf o alluoedd y Cynulliad mewn hinsawdd gymdeithasol ac economaidd hyblyg â natur fwyfwy byd-eang.
Gwenda has spoken about the dangers of extremism and elitism, and I agree with her. These are not words that should be associated with the Welsh language. To go down those paths would be to close the gate on the 80 per cent of the people of Wales who do not speak Welsh. I want to see the gate opened wide to the Welsh language. It is not a tollbooth or a drawbridge; free admission is the motto. Access to the Welsh heritage in our national musem is now free; I want similar access for and to the Welsh language. This gateway works both ways. In one direction, I want to see as many people as possible learning Welsh. I want a Welsh-medium education to be an option for everyone in Wales. That is why the Welsh Language Board has a remit to ask all local education authorities to prepare Welsh education schemes to show that they are planning on the basis of choice. Local authorities must also bear in mind the nature of their localities. There are many English medium schools with excellent reputations in teaching Welsh as a second language. All children now receive Welsh lessons up to the age of 16. That is progress, and there will soon be a generation in Wales that will have had an opportunity for a good grounding in the Welsh language through the formal education system. That is a change. I also want to see as many adults as possible learning Welsh. I agree with Gwenda; there should be plenty of entry points and continual opportunities to learn. I have joined those ranks and, while it is not easy, it is rewarding. Dyfal donc a dyrr y garreg—perseverance pays off.
Soniodd Gwenda am beryglon eithafiaeth ac elitiaeth, a chytunaf â hi. Nid yw’r rhain yn eiriau y dylid eu cysylltu â’r iaith Gymraeg. Byddai dilyn y llwybrau hynny yn cau’r drws ar 80 y cant o bobl Cymru nad ydynt yn siarad Cymraeg. Yr wyf am weld y drws ar agor led y pen i’r iaith Gymraeg. Nid tollborth na phont godi ydyw; mynediad am ddim yw’r arwyddair. Mae mynediad i dreftadaeth Cymru yn ein hamgueddfa genedlaethol am ddim bellach; yr wyf am weld mynediad tebyg ar gyfer ac i’r iaith Gymraeg. Mae’r mynediad hwn yn gweithio ddwy ffordd. Mewn un cyfeiriad, yr wyf am weld cymaint o bobl â phosibl yn dysgu Cymraeg. Yr wyf am i addysg Gymraeg fod yn opsiwn i bawb yng Nghymru. Dyna pam fod gan Fwrdd yr Iaith Gymraeg gylch gwaith i ofyn i bob awdurdod addysg lleol i baratoi cynlluniau addysg Gymraeg er mwyn dangos eu bod yn cynllunio ar sail dewis. Rhaid i awdurdodau lleol hefyd ystyried natur eu hardaloedd. Ceir nifer o ysgolion cyfrwng Saesneg sydd ag enw rhagorol o ran addysgu Cymraeg fel ail iaith. Mae pob plentyn bellach yn cael gwersi Cymraeg hyd at 16 oed. Mae hynny’n gynnydd, ac yn fuan bydd cenhedlaeth yng Nghymru a gafodd y cyfle i gael eu trwytho’n dda yn y Gymraeg drwy gyfrwng y system addysg ffurfiol. Mae hynny’n newid. Yr wyf hefyd am weld cymaint o oedolion â phosibl yn dysgu Cymraeg. Cytunaf â Gwenda; dylai fod digon o gyfle i ddechrau ac i ddal ati i ddysgu. Ymunais â’r rhengoedd hynny, ac er nad yw’n hawdd, y mae’n rhoi boddhad. Dyfal donc a dyrr y garreg.
In the other direction, the gateway must be open for people to use Welsh if it is their choice of language. It must be a common currency in communities. This is why the continuing development of language schemes in public services is important. The Welsh Language Board has approved over 160 Welsh language schemes since 1993, and there are more being developed. I want to see more public services delivering a quality service through the medium of Welsh. I will bring forward more proposals for naming bodies under section 6(1)(o) of the Welsh Language Act 1993 in the next few months. Although the Welsh Language Act does not extend to the voluntary or private sectors, the language board has a remit to promote Welsh in all sectors of the community. It has achieved much in both sectors over the last few years. There is now a more than reasonable expectation of seeing the Welsh language in supermarkets, banks and restaurants and in our larger voluntary organisations, which often deliver their services through the medium of Welsh.
Yn y cyfeiriad arall, rhaid i’r drws fod ar agor i bobl ddefnyddio Cymraeg os mai dyna yw eu dewis iaith. Rhaid iddi gael ei defnyddio’n gyffredinol mewn cymunedau. Dyna pam fod datblygu cynlluniau iaith yn barhaus mewn gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yn bwysig. Cymeradwyodd Bwrdd yr Iaith Gymraeg dros 160 o gynlluniau iaith Gymraeg ers 1993, ac mae mwy yn cael eu datblygu. Yr wyf am weld mwy o wasanaethau cyhoeddus yn cyflwyno gwasanaeth o safon yn Gymraeg. Byddaf yn cyflwyno rhagor o gynigion i enwi cyrff o dan adran 6(1)(o) Deddf yr Iaith Gymraeg 1993 yn ystod yr ychydig fisoedd nesaf. Er nad yw Deddf yr Iaith Gymraeg yn cwmpasu’r sectorau gwirfoddol a phreifat, mae gan y bwrdd iaith gylch gwaith i hybu Cymraeg ym mhob sector o’r gymuned. Cyflawnodd lawer yn y ddau sector yn ystod y blynyddoedd diwethaf. Erbyn hyn mae’n bur debygol y gwelir Cymraeg mewn archfarchnadoedd, banciau a bwytai ac yn ein mudiadau gwirfoddol mwy, sy’n aml yn cyflwyno eu gwasanaethau yn Gymraeg.
I am glad that Gwenda acknowledged the important work of mentrau iaith in promoting the language within communities. The mentrau are important gateways into the language. They work with the public, voluntary and private sectors to encourage more use of the language and help organisations to use the language successfully. This creates opportunities for individuals to use Welsh in their everyday lives. Only yesterday, I visited Menter Iaith Caerffili and heard about its work in the community. I have also visited Gwenda’s local menter. The mentrau do wonderful work, and every menter does different things, because they are answering the needs of their local communities.
Yr wyf yn falch fod Gwenda wedi cydnabod gwaith pwysig y mentrau iaith o ran hybu’r iaith o fewn cymunedau. Mae’r mentrau yn agor drysau pwysig i’r iaith. Maent yn gweithio â’r sectorau cyhoeddus, gwirfoddol a phreifat er mwyn annog rhagor o ddefnydd o’r iaith a helpu sefydliadau i ddefnyddio’r iaith yn llwyddiannus. Mae hyn yn creu cyfleoedd i unigolion ddefnyddio Cymraeg yn eu bywyd bob dydd. Ymwelais â Menter Iaith Caerffili ddoe a chlywais am ei gwaith yn y gymuned. Ymwelais hefyd â menter lleol Gwenda. Mae’r mentrau yn gwneud gwaith rhagorol, ac mae pob menter yn gwneud rhywbeth gwahanol, gan eu bod yn diwallu anghenion eu cymunedau lleol.
I am also pleased that Gwenda acknowledged the importance of the other community initiative that the Welsh Language Board has been pursuing, namely of transferring the language within families by encouraging them to pass on the heritage to the next generation. In increasing the funding available to the language board in the last two years, the mentrau iaith and the families project have received specific uplifts worth well over £500,000. The mentrau have received a 53 per cent increase in funding this year. That has enabled the board to accelerate these developments. We will be allocating a further uplift next year. We have recognised that community initiatives are important for the future of the language and we are, basically, mentoring the mentrau. In addition to these initiatives, our funding for the board has enabled it to consistently provide support to key voluntary organisations such as Mudiad Ysgolion Meithrin and Urdd Gobaith Cymru. These organisations are of vital importance in attracting and retaining the interest of children, young people and young parents in the Welsh language.
Yr wyf hefyd yn falch fod Gwenda wedi cydnabod pwysigrwydd y fenter gymunedol arall y bu Bwrdd yr Iaith Gymraeg ar ei drywydd, sef trosglwyddo’r iaith o fewn teuluoedd drwy eu hannog i drosglwyddo’r etifeddiaeth ymlaen i’r genhedlaeth nesaf. Drwy gynyddu’r arian sydd ar gael i’r bwrdd iaith yn ystod y ddwy flynedd diwethaf, cafodd y mentrau iaith a’r project teuluoedd godiadau penodol gwerth ymhell dros £500,000. Cafodd y mentrau gynnydd o 53 y cant yn eu cyllid eleni. Bu hynny’n fodd i’r bwrdd gyflymu’r datblygiadau hyn. Byddwn yn dyrannu codiad pellach y flwyddyn nesaf. Yr ydym wedi cydnabod fod mentrau cymunedol yn bwysig i ddyfodol yr iaith ac yr ydym, yn sylfaenol, yn mentora’r mentrau. Yn ogystal â’r mentrau hyn, mae ein harian ar gyfer y bwrdd wedi ei alluogi i roi cefnogaeth gyson i fudiadau gwirfoddol allweddol megis Mudiad Ysgolion Meithrin ac Urdd Gobaith Cymru. Mae’r mudiadau hyn yn hollbwysig o ran ennyn a chadw diddordeb plant, pobl ifanc a rhieni ifanc yn y Gymraeg.
This is an important time for the Welsh language. The Culture Committee has been working for the last six months on its review of the language, which the Assembly voted in favour of in July 2000. If you have been following the review—I assume that most Members present will have had sufficient interest to be doing so—you will know that we have received oral and written evidence from many organisations that have an interest in the language. The other Subject Committees have been considering the position of the language as it relates to the different areas of housing, health and the economy. The Education and Lifelong Learning Committee is undertaking its own review, which I will be following closely. The review has opened the gate to some new ideas. Our remit will include considering how to offer a choice of language within communities. Other key aspects of the remit are to consider how to promote equal respect for English and Welsh and how to maintain national consensus and goodwill towards bilingualism.
Mae hwn yn amser pwysig i’r Gymraeg. Bu’r Pwyllgor Diwylliant yn gweithio ers y chwe mis diwethaf ar ei adolygiad o’r iaith, y pleidleisiodd y Cynulliad o’i blaid ym mis Gorffennaf 2000. Os buoch yn dilyn yr adolygiad—a chymeraf fod gan y rhan fwyaf o’r Aelodau sy’n bresennol ddigon o ddiddordeb i wneud hynny—gwyddoch inni gael tystiolaeth lafar ac ysgrifenedig gan nifer o sefydliadau sydd â diddordeb yn yr iaith. Bu’r Pwyllgorau Pwnc eraill yn ystyried sefyllfa’r iaith a’i pherthynas â meysydd gwahanol megis tai, iechyd a’r economi. Mae’r Pwyllgor Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes yn cynnal ei adolygiad ei hun, a byddaf yn ei ddilyn yn agos. Mae’r adolygiad wedi agor y drws i rai syniadau newydd. Bydd ein cylch gwaith yn cynnwys sut i gynnig dewis o ieithoedd o fewn cymunedau. Agweddau allweddol eraill ar y cylch gwaith yw ystyried sut i hybu parch cyfartal tuag at y Gymraeg a’r Saesneg a sut i gynnal consensws cenedlaethol ac ewyllys da tuag at ddwyieithrwydd.
I will take the best of the new ideas that gain cross-party support to the Cabinet. This will be an opportunity to put forward ideas that have gained support from the strength and breadth of evidence that we have received, which was based on the widest possible consensus. It is a pity that there has been unfavourable media coverage on the language during the past year. It has continued sporadically since last summer. We should not give credit to such coverage with undue attention. We do not need a language row. Newspapers may think that it increases their sales, but it does not sell Wales as a society and it does not increase our community strength. We must stick to our refusal to allow the language to become a political football.
Byddaf yn cyflwyno’r goreuon o’r syniadau newydd a gaiff gefnogaeth drawsbleidiol gerbron y Cabinet. Bydd hyn yn gyfle i gyflwyno syniadau a gefnogir gan dystiolaeth gryf ac eang ei gwmpas sydd wedi dod i law, a oedd yn seiliedig ar y consensws ehangaf posibl. Mae’n drueni bod yr iaith wedi cael sylw anffafriol yn y wasg y llynedd. Parhaodd hynny yn ysbeidiol ers haf diwethaf. Ni ddylem roi cydnabyddiaeth i hynny drwy roi gormod o sylw iddo. Nid oes angen ffrae am yr iaith arnom. Efallai y cred papurau newydd ei fod yn cynyddu eu gwerthiant, ond nid yw’n gwerthu Cymru fel cymdeithas ac nid yw’n cynyddu ein cryfder cymunedol. Rhaid i ni lynu at ein penderfyniad i beidio â throi’r iaith yn bêl-droed wleidyddol.
The Assembly is duty-bound to give equal respect and consideration to all the people of Wales regardless of creed, colour or language. No gate is closed to anyone, whether they speak Welsh or not. In our planning, we should not forget that it is not an easy task for adults to learn Welsh—I know. The Welsh language must not be regarded as exclusive. There is room for all levels of fluency in the Welsh language, from members of yr Academi Gymreig—the Welsh Academy—to the ‘dim ond tipyn bach, fel fi’—only a little bit, like me. The gate must be opened to all. From those who speak Welsh, I look for encouragement and openness, and from those who do not, I look for empathy and support. We will foster these shades of opinion if we adopt inclusive policies. To do otherwise would cause division and create a no-win situation for the language.
Mae’n ddyletswydd ar y Cynulliad i roi parch ac ystyriaeth gyfartal i holl bobl Cymru waeth beth fo’u crefydd, lliw neu iaith. Nid yw’r drws ar gau i unrhyw un, p’un a ydynt yn siarad Cymraeg ai peidio. Wrth inni gynllunio, ni ddylem anghofio nad tasg hawdd ydyw i oedolion ddysgu Cymraeg—fel y gwn. Ni ddylid ystyried Cymraeg fel iaith sy’n hepgor pobl. Mae lle i bob lefel o allu o ran rhuglder yn y Gymraeg, rhwng aelodau’r Academi Gymreig a phobl ‘dim ond tipyn bach’ fel fi. Rhaid agor y drws i bawb. Chwiliaf am anogaeth a pharodrwydd gan siaradwyr Cymraeg a chwiliaf am gydymdeimlad a chefnogaeth gan y rhai nad ydynt yn ei siarad. Drwy fabwysiadu polisïau cynhwysol y gallwn feithrin y safbwyntiau gwahanol hyn. Byddai gwneud fel arall yn achosi rhwyg ac yn creu sefyllfa aflwyddiannus i’r iaith.
I promise that, when it comes to putting forward proposals for the future of Welsh language policies in the Assembly, I intend to support those that will make a difference, based on strong evidence, wide consensus and mature judgment. I will not ask my Cabinet colleagues to support any proposals that are extremist or elitist, Gwenda. The Culture Committee will not suggest any either, because that is not in its line of thinking at the moment. I am confident that we are all fully aware of the fact that this is an opportunity to halt the decline of Welsh in the heartlands and to strengthen and develop the new found success of Welsh in the more anglicised areas of Wales. This is an opportunity to change the course of the Welsh language and to make a positive difference that will be good, not just for Welsh speakers, but for the whole of Wales.
Yr wyf yn addo, pan ddaw yn adeg cyflwyno cynigion ar gyfer polisïau ynghylch yr iaith Gymraeg yn y Cynulliad, fy mod yn bwriadu cefnogi’r rhai a fydd yn gwneud gwahaniaeth, yn seiliedig ar dystiolaeth gref, consensws eang a barn aeddfed. Ni ofynnaf i’m cyd-Aelodau gefnogi unrhyw gynigion sy’n eithafol neu elitaidd, Gwenda. Ni fydd y Pwyllgor Diwylliant yn awgrymu unrhyw rai ychwaith, gan nad yw hynny’n cyd-fynd â’i feddylfryd ar hyn o bryd. Yr wyf yn hyderus ein bod yn llawn ymwybodol fod hwn yn gyfle i atal dirywiad y Gymraeg yn y cadarnleoedd ac i gryfhau a datblygu llwyddiant newydd Cymraeg yn y rhannau mwy Seisnig o Gymru. Mae hwn yn gyfle i newid cyfeiriad yr iaith Gymraeg ac i wneud gwahaniaeth cadarnhaol a fydd o fudd, nid i siaradwyr Cymraeg yn unig, ond i Gymru gyfan.
Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 12.28 p.m.
The session ended at 12.28 p.m.