Cymraeg

Cynulliad Cenedlaethol CymruNational Assembly for Wales · Cyfarfod llawnPlenary sitting

Dydd Mawrth 14 Ionawr 2003

Tuesday 14 January 2003

DechreuoddMet 14:00 · Daeth i benRose 17:23

Gweld y Cofnod (PDF)View the Record (PDF)

Heb ei wirio â llaw etoNot yet checked by hand

CynnwysContents

  1. 3Datganiad gan y LlywyddStatement by the Presiding Officer
  2. 3Cwestiynau i’r Prif WeinidogQuestions to the First Minister
    1. 3Swyddfeydd Post mewn Ardaloedd Gwledig yng NghymruRural Post Offices in Wales
    2. 5Mentrau Cyllid PreifatPrivate Finance Initiatives
    3. 8Rhyfel Posibl yn erbyn IracPossible War with Iraq
    4. 9‘Cynllun i Gymru 2001’‘Plan for Wales 2001’
    5. 14Ymweliad â ChaernarfonVisit to Caernarfon
    6. 16CMC CymruWales’s GDP
    7. 18Effaith Cysylltiadau Trafnidiaeth ar Ddatblygu Economaidd yng NghymruEffects of Transport Links on Economic Development in Wales
    8. 22Dirwyon Penodol yn Gosb am Ymddygiad Gwrth-GymdeithasolFixed Penalty Fines for Anti Social Behaviour
    9. 24‘Cynllun i Gymru 2001’‘Plan for Wales 2001’
    10. 25Unedau Arweiniad PlantChild Guidance Units
  3. 26Pwynt o DrefnPoint of Order
  4. 27Datganiad BusnesBusiness Statement
  5. 32Pwynt o DrefnPoint of Order
  6. 34Cymeradwyo Gorchymyn Tai (Hawl i Gaffael a Hawl i Brynu) (Ardaloedd Gwledig Dynodedig a Rhanbarthau Dynodedig) (Cymru) 2003Approval of the Housing (Right to Acquire and Right to Buy) (Designated Rural Areas and Designated Regions) (Wales) Order 2003 3 o bleidleisiau3 votes
  7. 43Ymestyn HawliauExtending Entitlement 3 o bleidleisiau3 votes
  8. 65Dadl Plaid Leiafrifol (Plaid Cymru)Minority Party Debate (Plaid Cymru) 2 o bleidleisiau2 votes
    1. 65Y Llywodraeth GlymblaidThe Coalition Government 2 o bleidleisiau2 votes

PleidleisiauVotes

PleidlaisVoteO blaidForYmatalAbstainYn erbynAgainstCanlyniadResult
Cymeradwyo Gorchymyn Tai (Hawl i Gaffael a Hawl i Brynu) (Ardaloedd Gwledig Dynodedig a Rhanbarthau Dynodedig) (Cymru) 2003Approval of the Housing (Right to Acquire and Right to Buy) (Designated Rural Areas and Designated Regions) (Wales) Order 2003
Gwelliant 1Amendment 18036GwrthodwydRejected
Cynnig NDM1287Motion NDM12874700DerbyniwydAdopted
Cynnig NDM1288Motion NDM12884800DerbyniwydAdopted
Ymestyn HawliauExtending Entitlement
Gwelliant 1Amendment 18142GwrthodwydRejected
Gwelliant 2Amendment 221030GwrthodwydRejected
Cynnig NDM1286Motion NDM12864308DerbyniwydAdopted
Y Llywodraeth GlymblaidThe Coalition Government
Gwelliant 1Amendment 19044GwrthodwydRejected
Cynnig NDM1285Motion NDM128524030GwrthodwydRejected

TrafodionProceedings

Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 2 p.m. gyda’r Llywydd yn y Gadair.

The Assembly met at 2 p.m. with the Presiding Officer in the Chair.

Datganiad gan y Llywydd

Statement by the Presiding Officer

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 3

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 3

Cyn imi wahodd y Prif Weinidog i ateb cwestiynau, dymunaf flwyddyn newydd dda yn ddiweddar i chi i gyd.

Before I invite the First Minister to answer questions, I wish you all a belated happy new year.

Cwestiynau i’r Prif Weinidog

Questions to the First Minister

Swyddfeydd Post mewn Ardaloedd Gwledig yng Nghymru

Rural Post Offices in Wales

C1 Delyth Evans siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 3

Q1 Delyth Evans spoken in Welsh p. 3

Pa drafodaethau y mae Prif Weinidog Cymru wedi’u cael â’i gydweithwyr yn San Steffan ynghylch diogelu dyfodol swyddfeydd post mewn ardaloedd gwledig yng Nghymru? (OAQ21650)

What discussions has the First Minister had with Westminster colleagues about securing the future of rural post offices in Wales? (OAQ21650)

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 3

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 3

Mae ein swyddogion wedi trafod, gyda Swyddfa Cymru a’r Adran Masnach a Diwydiant, yr adnoddau a ddaw i Gymru yn sgîl cyhoeddiad yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol dros Fasnach a Diwydiant ar 2 Rhagfyr o £450 miliwn ar gyfer y Deyrnas Gyfunol gyfan. O ystyried canran y swyddfeydd post sydd mewn ardaloedd gwledig yng Nghymru, disgwyliwn y dylai tua £50 miliwn ddod i’n swyddfeydd post i’w harbed rhag cau.

Our officials have discussed, with the Wales Office and the Department of Trade and Industry, the resources due to Wales as a result of the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry’s announcement on 2 December that £450 million will be made available for the whole of the United Kingdom. Given the percentage of post offices in rural areas in Wales, we expect that some £50 million should be available to keep our post offices open.

Delyth Evans siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 3

Delyth Evans spoken in Welsh p. 3

Bydd y gronfa honno, ynghyd â mesurau’r Cynulliad i ddiogelu gwasanaethau lleol, yn cael ei chroesawu’n fawr gan drigolion ardaloedd gwledig ledled Cymru. Mae rhai pensiynwyr wedi codi pryderon gyda mi ynglŷn â’u gallu i dderbyn taliadau pensiwn o swyddfeydd post ar ôl i’r newidiadau i sut y telir pensiynau ddod i rym. A allwch sicrhau’r bobl hynny y bydd yn dal yn bosibl iddynt gasglu eu pensiynau o swyddfeydd post?

That fund, together with the Assembly’s measures to safeguard local services, will be warmly welcomed by residents of rural areas throughout Wales. Some pensioners have raised concerns with me about their ability to receive pension payments from the post office after the changes to how pensions are paid come into force. Can you reassure those people that it will still be possible for them to collect their pensions from post offices?

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 3

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 3

Gallaf. Bydd y dewis yn aros gyda’r pensiynwyr. Bydd ganddynt dri dewis: cael cyfrif cerdyn gyda’r swyddfa bost; cael y pensiwn wedi’i dalu i’w cyfrif banc neu gyfrif cymdeithas adeiladu presennol; neu, os nad oes ganddynt gyfrif yn barod, gallent agor cyfrif banc neu gyfrif cymdeithas adeiladu newydd. Bydd gan bensiynwyr ddewis a gallant ddewis ddefnyddio swyddfa’r post os dymunant.

Yes I can. The choice will remain with pensioners. They will have three options: to have a card account with the post office; to have the pension paid into an existing bank or building society account; or, if they do not have an account, to open a new bank or building society account. The choice will remain with pensioners and they will be able to choose to use the post office if they so wish.

Ieuan Wyn Jones Arweinydd yr Wrthblaid siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 4

Ieuan Wyn Jones The Leader of the Opposition spoken in Welsh p. 4

A yw’r Prif Weinidog yn ymwybodol o ddarogan Ffederasiwn Genedlaethol yr Is-Bostfeistri y bydd, hyd yn oed gyda chymhorthdal y Llywodraeth yn Llundain, un o bob tri o is-swyddfeydd post yng Nghymru yn cau o fewn y pum mlynedd nesaf? Rhagwelir y byddant yn colli o leiaf 40 y cant o’u gwaith presennol: hynny yw, y gwaith ar bensiynau a hefyd ar fudd-daliadau. Yn ychwanegol at yr arian o Lundain, a fydd y Prif Weinidog yn rhoi arian pellach gan y Cynulliad i amddiffyn ein swyddfeydd post?

Is the First Minister aware of the National Federation of Sub-Postmasters’ prediction that, even with the financial assistance of the Government in London, one in three sub-post offices in Wales will close over the next five years? It is predicted that they will lose at least 40 per cent of their current business: that is, the work on pensions and also on benefit payments. In addition to the money from London, will the First Minister give further Assembly funding to protect our post offices?

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 4

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 4

Yr ydym yn symud yn awr o swyddfeydd post gwledig i rai trefol. Cyhoeddodd Edwina Hart ym mis Rhagfyr fod £2.5 miliwn ar gael i achub, datblygu a sicrhau dyfodol swyddfeydd post mewn ardaloedd trefol. Cyhoeddodd Mike German fesur cyfatebol ar gyfer swyddfeydd post mewn ardaloedd gwledig. Bydd yr arian a gyhoeddwyd gan Edwina Hart yn sicrhau bod gwasanaeth ar gael o fewn hanner milltir i drigolion ardaloedd trefol.

We are now moving from rural post offices to urban ones. Edwina Hart announced in December that £2.5 million is available to save, develop and ensure a future for urban post offices. Mike German announced a corresponding measure for rural post offices. The funding announced by Edwina Hart will ensure that services are available within half a mile of residents in urban areas.

Lorraine Barrett spoken in English p. 4

Lorraine Barrett siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

Will you consider how various co-operative options can be employed to help rural post offices work with other interested businesses in their villages to try to strengthen their business base?

A wnewch ystyried sut y gellir defnyddio gwahanol ddewisiadau cydweithredol i helpu swyddfeydd post gwledig i weithio gyda busnesau eraill sydd â diddordeb yn eu pentrefi i geisio cryfhau eu sylfaen fusnes?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 4

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

We all accept that the post office is an essential part of community services in deprived urban communities and in isolated and deprived rural areas. That is why we commissioned the Wales Co-operative Centre to work on proposals along the lines of those outlined in your question to ensure that, if no sub-postmaster or sub-postmistress bids to take over the business, the community itself can do so. That option is promising and the money is available. It is up to communities that feel endangered, or for people who see the business as only marginally viable, or who are finding it difficult to sell sub-post offices as commercial businesses, to use the money available through the new DTI fund, through the post office development fund announced by Edwina or through Mike German’s announcement on rural post offices in Wales. Please bid for it, and use it or lose it.

Yr ydym oll yn derbyn bod y swyddfa bost yn rhan hanfodol o wasanaethau cymunedol mewn cymunedau trefol difreintiedig ac mewn ardaloedd gwledig anghysbell a difreintiedig. Dyna pam y gwnaethom gomisiynu Canolfan Cydweithredol Cymru i weithio ar gynigion tebyg i’r rhai a ddisgrifiwyd yn eich cwestiwn i sicrhau, os na fydd is-bostfeistr neu is-bostfeistres yn ymgeisio i gymryd yr awenau, y gall y gymuned wneud hynny. Mae’r dewis hwnnw’n un addawol ac mae’r arian ar gael. Mater i gymunedau sy’n teimlo eu bod dan fygythiad, neu i bobl sy’n ystyried nad yw’r busnes ond yn ymylu ar fod yn ddichonadwy, neu’n ei chael yn anodd gwerthu is-swyddfeydd post fel busnesau masnachol, yw defnyddio’r arian sydd ar gael drwy gronfa newydd yr Adran Masnach a Diwydiant, drwy’r gronfa datblygu swyddfeydd post a gyhoeddwyd gan Edwina neu drwy gyhoeddiad Mike German ar swyddfeydd post gwledig yng Nghymru. Ymgeisiwch amdano, os gwelwch yn dda; mae’n rhaid ei ddefnyddio neu’i golli.

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 5

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

You talk of additional funding, but is it not the reality—as highlighted in the Wales on Sunday—that a further 150 branches in Wales are targeted for closure? You talk of additional funding, but the Labour Government is taking an important source of income away from post offices. The Post Office is also having its hands tied behind its back with regard to competing on a level playing field.

Yr ydych yn sôn am gyllid ychwanegol, ond onid y gwir yw—fel yr amlygwyd yn y Wales on Sunday—y bwriedir cau 150 o ganghennau eraill yng Nghymru? Yr ydych yn sôn am gyllid ychwanegol, ond mae’r Llywodraeth Lafur yn mynd â ffynhonnell incwm bwysig oddi ar swyddfeydd post. Mae Swyddfa’r Post â’i dwylo wedi’u clymu hefyd o ran cael cystadlu’n deg.

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 5

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

Yes, and an alternative source of income is being provided through the universal banking service proposal. The Department for Work and Pensions is not going to go back on the idea of switching to automated credit transfer for pensions and benefits, but as I explained to Delyth, people still have the option of receiving their pension or benefit payment via a post office card account. We cannot force people to choose that option—they may choose to use a bank or building society—but they may choose to use the post office. There will probably be a loss of business in that regard but, on the other hand, much additional business is available to be won by urban and rural post offices and sub-post offices through the universal bank account.

Ydyw, a darperir ffynhonnell incwm arall drwy’r cynllun gwasanaeth bancio cyffredinol. Ni fydd yr Adran Gwaith a Phensiynau yn ailfeddwl ynghylch y syniad o droi at drosglwyddo credyd awtomataidd ar gyfer pensiynau a budd-daliadau, ond fel yr eglurais wrth Delyth, mae pobl yn dal i gael y dewis o dderbyn eu taliad pensiwn neu fudd-dal drwy gyfrif cerdyn swyddfa bost. Ni allwn orfodi pobl i gymryd y dewis hwnnw—efallai y dewisant ddefnyddio banc neu gymdeithas adeiladu—ond gallent ddewis defnyddio swyddfa’r post. Mae’n fwy na thebyg y collir busnes yn hynny o beth ond, ar y llaw arall, mae llawer o fusnes ychwanegol ar gael i’w ennill gan swyddfeydd post ac is-swyddfeydd post trefol a gwledig drwy’r cyfrif banc cyffredinol.

Mentrau Cyllid Preifat

Private Finance Initiatives

Q2 David Melding spoken in English p. 5

C2 David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

Would the First Minister make a statement on the Welsh Assembly Government’s use of private finance initiatives? (OAQ21608)

A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad ar ddefnydd Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru o fentrau cyllid preifat? (OAQ21608)

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 5

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

We take a pragmatic approach to this, as I have explained on previous occasions. During the last month or so, I was pleased to see the opening of the Neath Port Talbot Hospital, which is one of Wales’s biggest PFI projects to date; it is now full of patients, and we are pleased with the new facilities available to people in the hospital’s catchment area. We have also seen some successful PFI schemes carried out by Caerphilly County Borough Council—I believe that that is the second largest, with a capital cost of £35 million—with two new schools being built, namely Ysgol Gyfun Cwm Rhymni and Lewis School in Pengam. Other schemes are also pending. We have also ensured that the door is not closed on non-PFI capital schemes with regard to hospitals and schools.

Yr ydym yn ymdrin â hyn yn bragmatig, fel yr eglurais yn y gorffennol. Yn ystod y mis diwethaf, fwy neu lai, yr oeddwn yn falch o weld agor Ysbyty Castell-nedd Port Talbot, sy’n un o brosiectau menter cyllid preifat mwyaf Cymru hyd yn hyn; mae bellach yn llawn o gleifion, ac yr ydym yn fodlon ar y cyfleusterau newydd sydd ar gael i bobl yn nalgylch yr ysbyty. Gwelsom gyflawni rhai cynlluniau menter cyllid preifat llwyddiannus gan Gyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Caerffili hefyd—credaf mai hwnnw yw’r ail fwyaf, gyda chost cyfalaf o £35 miliwn—gyda dwy ysgol newydd, sef Ysgol Gyfun Cwm Rhymni ac Ysgol Lewis ym Mhengam, yn cael eu codi. Mae cynlluniau eraill yn yr arfaeth hefyd. Yr ydym hefyd wedi sicrhau na chaeir y drws ar gynlluniau cyfalaf nad ydynt yn fentrau cyllid preifat o ran ysbytai ac ysgolion.

David Melding spoken in English p. 6

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

I take this opportunity to wish you a happy and unsuccessful new year. [Laughter.] Do you agree with your Labour colleague, Jon Owen Jones, the Member of Parliament for Cardiff Central and former Welsh health Minister, that your administration has failed to utilise PFI to its full potential?

Achubaf ar y cyfle hwn i ddymuno blwyddyn newydd hapus ac aflwyddiannus i chi. [Chwerthin.] A gytunwch â’ch cyd-aelod Llafur, Jon Owen Jones, yr Aelod Seneddol dros Ganol Caerdydd a chyn Weinidog iechyd Cymru, fod eich gweinyddiaeth wedi methu â manteisio’n llawn ar botensial mentrau cyllid preifat?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 6

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

The definition of a pragmatic approach may have escaped observers. That is a little odd, coming as it does after the opening of the Neath Port Talbot Hospital, which is a major PFI investment, and considering the applications for schools that we have received from local authorities of all political colours in Wales, some of whom have already made successful use of PFI. Taking Caerphilly as an example, we approved a business case for £35.5 million in capital expenditure, but the scheme also includes an additional £74 million in revenue expenditure. The Conwy County Borough Council proposals are greater again; the business case has either already been approved or is on the point of being approved, although there are some technicalities which require further work. These are big schemes, worth as much as £80 million. To say that we are not exploiting this to the full is to misunderstand the situation. We are providing an additional possibility by approving the building of schools and hospitals through traditional methods of capital funding as well as allowing PFI projects where they meet pragmatic considerations.

Efallai nad yw rhai sylwedyddion yn deall y diffiniad o ddull gweithredu pragmatig. Mae hynny braidd yn rhyfedd, gan fod Ysbyty Castell-nedd Port Talbot, sy’n fuddsoddiad menter cyllid preifat o bwys, eisoes wedi’i agor ac o ystyried y ceisiadau am ysgolion a gawsom gan awdurdodau lleol o bob lliw gwleidyddol yng Nghymru, y mae rhai ohonynt eisoes wedi defnyddio mentrau cyllid preifat yn llwyddiannus. Gan gymryd Caerffili’n enghraifft, gwnaethom gymeradwyo achos busnes dros £35.5 miliwn o wariant cyfalaf, ond mae’r cynllun hefyd yn cynnwys £74 miliwn yn ychwanegol o wariant refeniw. Mae cynigion Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Conwy yn fwy byth; mae’r achos busnes un ai wedi’i gymeradwyo neu ar fin cael ei gymeradwyo, er bod rhai manylion technegol sy’n gofyn gwaith pellach. Cynlluniau mawr yw’r rhain, gwerth cymaint â £80 miliwn. Camddeall y sefyllfa yw dweud nad ydym yn manteisio’n llawn ar hyn. Yr ydym yn cynnig posibilrwydd ychwanegol drwy gymeradwyo codi ysgolion ac ysbytai drwy ddulliau traddodiadol o gyllido cyfalaf yn ogystal â chaniatáu prosiectau menter cyllid preifat lle y maent yn bodloni ystyriaethau pragmatig.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 6

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

The key to disputing Jon Owen Jones’s assertion that Wales is losing out because of the approach taken to PFI lies in the way that business cases are assessed—whether you use traditional finance or go down a PFI route to build capital projects. How can we make that process more transparent so that people can see that Wales is not losing out as a result of our pragmatic approach to PFI, and that capital investment is taking place on the basis of what provides best value for money?

Mae’r allwedd i herio honiad Jon Owen Jones bod Cymru ar ei cholled oherwydd yr agwedd at fentrau cyllid preifat i’w gael yn y dull o asesu achosion busnes—pa un ai a ydych yn defnyddio cyllid traddodiadol neu’n dilyn llwybr menter cyllid preifat i adeiladu prosiectau cyfalaf. Sut y gallwn beri i’r broses honno fod yn fwy tryloyw fel bod pobl yn gallu gweld nad yw Cymru ar ei cholled oherwydd ein hagwedd bragmatig at fentrau cyllid preifat, a bod buddsoddi cyafalaf yn digwydd ar sail yr hyn sy’n rhoi’r gwerth gorau am arian?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 7

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

That is what we are doing. I know of only one area of concern in relation to making the process transparent, namely when people request commercially confidential information from the bidders to demonstrate that their scheme is cheaper than the public sector alternative. To get approval for a PFI scheme, you must show that it is cheaper, and better value for money than the public sector comparator. People then want to challenge that, and ask for all papers to be disclosed. However, you cannot do that where it breaches the principle of commercial confidentiality. That is the only area of concern of which I am aware in terms of the transparency of our pragmatic approach. Unfortunately, commercially confidential information cannot be disclosed, and we have always made that clear.

Dyna’r hyn yr ydym yn ei wneud. Dim ond un maes y gwn i amdano sy’n peri pryder mewn cysylltiad â gwneud y broses yn dryloyw, sef pan fo pobl yn gofyn am wybodaeth fasnachol gyfrinachol gan yr ymgeiswyr i ddangos bod eu cynllun yn rhatach na’r dewis sector cyhoeddus. Er mwyn cael cymeradwyaeth i gynllun menter cyllid preifat, rhaid dangos ei fod yn rhatach, ac yn rhoi gwell gwerth am arian na’r cymharydd sector cyhoeddus. Mae pobl am herio hynny wedyn, ac yn gofyn am ddatgelu’r holl bapurau. Fodd bynnag, ni allwch wneud hynny os yw’n torri egwyddor cyfrinachedd masnachol. Dyna’r unig faes sy’n peri pryder y gwn i amdano o ran tryloywder ein dull gweithredu pragmatig. Gwaetha’r modd, ni ellir datgelu gwybodaeth fasnachol gyfrinachol, ac yr ydym wedi rhoi hynny ar ddeall erioed.

Gareth Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 7

Gareth Jones spoken in Welsh p. 7

Mae’r gwaith o lanhau tir halogedig ar gyfer adeiladu ysgol uwchradd newydd yn Llandudno wedi dechrau’r wythnos hon. A yw Llywodraeth y Cynulliad wedi llwyddo i berswadio Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Conwy i uwchraddio’i gynlluniau diffygiol i lanhau’r safle halogedig hwn? Os bu ichi lwyddo i wneud hynny, beth fydd cost y gwaith ychwanegol ac ai’r trethdalwyr lleol, y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol ynteu’r cwmnïau sy’n darparu’r cyllid preifat fydd yn talu am y gwaith?

The work of cleansing contaminated land for the building of a new secondary school in Llandudno has started this week. Has the Assembly Government succeeded in persuading Conwy County Borough Council to upgrade its deficient schemes to clean this contaminated site? If you have succeeded in doing so, what will be the cost of the additional work and will the local taxpayers, the National Assembly or the companies providing the private finance pay for the work?

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 7

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 7

Os cofiaf yn iawn, yn nhrafodaethau Llywodraeth y Cynulliad â Chyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Conwy, bu inni ganolbwyntio ar bwyso ar y cyngor i wneud astudiaeth fanylach o safle’r hen domen sbwriel lle y bwriedir adeiladu’r ysgol, o ran ambell ffactor cemegol ac ati. Yr oedd y cais busnes yn ddilys, ond yr oedd yn bwysig rhoi sicrwydd i bobl yr ardal bod pob agwedd ar gynnwys yr hen domen sbwriel wedi’i gwirio, ac felly y byddai’n gwbl ddiogel i blant yr ardal fynychu’r ysgol wedi i’r gwaith adeiladu gael ei gwblhau.

If I remember correctly, in the Assembly Government’s discussions with Conwy County Borough Council, we concentrated on putting pressure on the council to undertake a more detailed study of the former rubbish tip site on which the school is to be built, in terms of some chemical factors and so on. The business case added up, but it was important to assure local people that the entire content of the former rubbish tip had been assessed, and that therefore it would be completely safe for local children to attend the school following the completion of the building work.

Rhyfel Posibl yn erbyn Irac

Possible War with Iraq

Q3 Mick Bates spoken in English p. 8

C3 Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

What discussions has the First Minister had with colleagues in Westminster in regard to the effect of a possible war with Iraq on Wales? (OAQ21649)

Pa drafodaethau y mae’r Prif Weinidog wedi’u cael â’i gydweithwyr yn San Steffan mewn perthynas ag effaith y rhyfel posibl yn erbyn Irac ar Gymru? (OAQ21649)

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 8

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

I have spoken to the Secretary of State for Wales about this on a number of occasions, including in my meeting with him yesterday. I am sure that Members recall the resolution carried by the Assembly on 29 October 2002, which called on the UK Government to continue its work with other members of the United Nations to secure a resolution to the issue of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. The UK Government has done that and has successfully pressed for this issue to be routed through the United Nations via resolution 1441. It continues to make every effort to ensure that this crisis is resolved under UN auspices.

Yr wyf wedi siarad ag Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru am hyn ar sawl achlysur, gan gynnwys yn y cyfarfod a gefais ag ef ddoe. Yr wyf yn siŵr bod Aelodau’n cofio’r cynnig a dderbyniwyd gan y Cynulliad ar 29 Hydref 2002, a oedd yn galw ar Lywodraeth y DU i barhau â’i gwaith gydag aelodau eraill o’r Cenhedloedd Unedig i ddatrys mater arfau yn Irac a fyddai’n achosi dinistr eang. Mae Llywodraeth y DU wedi gwneud hynny ac wedi pwyso’n llwyddiannus am gyfeirio’r mater hwn drwy’r Cenhedloedd Unedig drwy benderfyniad 1441. Mae’n parhau i wneud pob ymdrech i sicrhau y caiff yr argyfwng hwn ei ddatrys o dan nawdd y Cenhedloedd Unedig.

Mick Bates spoken in English p. 8

Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

I am sure that you are aware of the statement of opinion to that effect, tabled by me and other Members. Do you agree that an attack on Iraq would increase the risk of terrorist activity in the world? Are you satisfied that emergency services in Wales are ready to deal with the consequences of increased terrorist activity?

Yr wyf yn siŵr eich bod yn ymwybodol o’r datganiad barn i’r perwyl hwnnw, a gyflwynwyd gennyf fi ac Aelodau eraill. A gytunwch y byddai ymosodiad ar Irac yn cynyddu’r perygl o weithgaredd terfysgol yn y byd? A ydych yn fodlon bod y gwasanaethau brys yng Nghymru’n barod i ddelio â chanlyniadau mwy o weithgaredd terfysgol?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 8

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

I am grateful for the tone in which you asked that question. You will understand that I cannot give details. However, the emergency services’ procedures have been stepped up so that they are ready to deal with bio-terrorist or other attacks on civil society in Wales. I am satisfied with the provisions being made to ensure that we are ready for all possible consequences.

Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i chi am dôn y cwestiwn hwnnw. Byddwch yn deall na allaf roi manylion. Fodd bynnag, mae gweithdrefnau’r gwasanaethau brys wedi cael eu dwysáu fel eu bod yn barod i ddelio ag ymosodiadau terfysgol biolegol neu ymosodiadau eraill ar y gymdeithas sifil yng Nghymru. Yr wyf yn fodlon ar y darpariaethau a wneir i sicrhau ein bod yn barod am bob canlyniad posibl.

Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 8

Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 8

Nid oes gan y Prif Weinidog gyfrifoldeb dros faterion tramor. Fodd bynnag, a yw’n derbyn ei fod yn gyfrifol am fod yn llais i bobl Cymru ar y mater hwn ac, felly, yn gyfrifol am fynegi’r pryder dwfn ledled Cymru ynghylch ymosodiad posibl ar Irac? A ydyw wedi mynegi’r pryder hwnnw i Tony Blair a Jack Straw a’u rhybuddio ynglŷn â’r perygl y caiff Prydain ei sugno i mewn i wrthdaro yn Irac, er nad yw hynny’n gwneud unrhyw synnwyr o ran hyrwyddo heddwch yn y dwyrain canol a ledled y byd?

The First Minister is not responsible for foreign affairs. However, does he accept that he is responsible for giving the people of Wales a voice on this issue and, therefore, for expressing the deep concern felt throughout Wales regarding a possible attack on Iraq? Has he expressed that concern to Tony Blair and Jack Straw and warned them about the danger of Britain being drawn into a conflict in Iraq, although that makes no sense in terms of promoting peace in the middle east and throughout the world?

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 9

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 9

Derbyniaf hynny. Nid wyf eisiau hollti blew; fodd bynnag, Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru yw llais pobl Cymru yng Nghabinet y Deyrnas Gyfunol, a gall ef fynegi barn ar sail yr hyn a ddywedaf wrtho ynglŷn â barn y Cynulliad a’r cynnig a dderbyniwyd gennym ym mis Hydref. Mae’n bwysig fy mod i ac eraill yn ei hysbysu o bryderon pobl Cymru. Fodd bynnag, ni olyga hynny fod gennym gyfrifoldeb dros y materion hyn. Credaf mai’r farn sy’n lledu ar draws Cymru ac ymhlith y pleidiau yw y dylid rhoi blaenoriaeth i ddefnyddio i’r eithaf brosesau a gweithgareddau y Cenhedloedd Unedig, a dyna y mae’r Llywodraeth yn ei wneud.

I accept that. I do not want to split hairs; however, the Secretary of State for Wales is the voice of the people of Wales in the UK Cabinet, and he can express views based on what I tell him about the Assembly’s views and the resolution that we carried in October. It is important that I and others inform him of the concerns of the people of Wales. However, that does not mean that we are responsible for these issues. I believe that the view that is spreading throughout Wales and among the political parties is that priority should be given to using the United Nations’ processes and activities to the utmost, and that is what the Government is doing.

William Graham spoken in English p. 9

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

Are there lessons to be learnt from the repeated break-ins at the Sizewell B nuclear power station, and do you consider it necessary to review security arrangements at possible terrorist targets in Wales?

A oes gwersi i’w dysgu oddi wrth y torri i mewn mynych yng ngorsaf ynni niwclear Sizewell B, ac a gredwch fod angen adolygu trefniadau diogelwch mewn targedau posibl i derfysgwyr yng Nghymru?

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 9

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

Order. This question is not about Sizewell.

Trefn. Nid yw’r cwestiwn hwn yn ymwneud â Sizewell.

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 9

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

I think that William was relating the issue to Wales. Wylfa is the only nuclear power station we have in Wales but we have many sensitive institutions. The emergency services have stepped up their security precautions for all sensitive sites and against all types of potential terrorist attacks on civil society in Wales. I am satisfied that the precautions taken are adequate for the level of risk.

Credaf fod William yn cysylltu’r mater â Chymru. Wylfa yw’r unig orsaf ynni niwclear sydd gennym yng Nghymru ond mae gennym lawer o sefydliadau sensitif. Mae’r gwasanaethau brys wedi dwysáu eu mesurau diogelwch ar gyfer yr holl safleoedd sensitif a rhag pob math o ymosodiad posibl gan derfysgwyr ar y gymdeithas sifil yng Nghymru. Yr wyf yn fodlon bod y mesurau diogelwch a gymerwyd yn ddigonol ar gyfer maint y perygl.

‘Cynllun i Gymru 2001’

‘Plan for Wales 2001’

Q4 Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in English p. 9

C4 Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

Will the First Minister make a statement on progress made on implementing the policies contained in ‘Plan for Wales 2001’ over the last three months? (OAQ21612) [ASSEMBLY MEMBERS: ‘Stand up.’]

A wnaiff Prif Weinidog Cymru ddatganiad ar y cynnydd a wnaed wrth weithredu’r polisïau a geir yn ‘Cynllun i Gymru 2001’ dros y tri mis diwethaf? (OAQ21612) [AELODAU’R CYNULLIAD: ‘Ar eich traed.’]

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 10

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

The Welsh Assembly Government is making solid progress towards fulfilling our commitments detailed in ‘Plan for Wales 2001’. I will highlight for your benefit, Ieuan, Jane Hutt’s announcement last week of the success of the golden hellos and golden thanks programmes in recruiting and retaining more general practitioners. As a result, we now have 100 extra GPs who are taking advantage of the golden hellos and 400 GPs who are taking advantage of the golden thanks scheme. We also have the student loan relief scheme, aimed at newly-qualified GPs taking up posts in Wales immediately after completing their vocational training scheme.

Mae Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru yn gwneud cynnydd cadarn tuag at gyflawni ein hymrwymiadau, a nodir yn ‘Cynllun i Gymru 2001’. Er eich budd chi, Ieuan, tynnaf sylw at gyhoeddiad Jane Hutt yr wythnos diwethaf am lwyddiant y rhaglenni taliadau croeso a thaliadau diolch wrth recriwtio a chadw mwy o feddygon teulu. O ganlyniad i hynny, mae gennym bellach 100 o feddygon teulu ychwanegol sy’n manteisio ar y taliadau croeso a 400 o feddygon teulu sy’n manteisio ar y cynllun taliadau diolch. Mae gennym hefyd gynllun rhyddhad benthyciadau myfyrwyr, a anelir at feddygon teulu sydd newydd gymhwyso sy’n cael swyddi yng Nghymru’n union ar ôl cwblhau eu cynllun hyfforddiant galwedigaethol.

Ieuan Wyn Jones rose—[Assembly Members: ‘Oh.’]

Ieuan Wyn Jones a gododd—[AELODAU CYNULLIAD: ‘O.’]

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 10

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

Order. Members are able to take part in proceedings either sitting comfortably or standing up as they choose. I prefer to sit down.

Trefn. Caiff Aelodau gymryd rhan mewn trafodion un ai wrth eistedd yn gyfforddus neu ar eu sefyll, yn ôl eu dewis. Mae’n well gennyf fi eistedd.

Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in English p. 10

Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

The First Minister will be aware that Education and Learning Wales is one of the bodies charged with carrying out the Government’s education policies in Wales. He cannot have failed to have read the highly critical report on ELWa published this morning by Sir John Bourn. He will know that some of Sir John’s comments are matters for him and his Government. In his report Sir John has highlighted failures and weaknesses in the financial management of procurement procedures during ELWa’s first year of operation, which has led to irregular expenditure of over £2.2 million. He also noted that ELWa did not put certain key pillars of sound corporate governance in place immediately, and that for 12 months it was operating without any standing orders or financial regulations being ratified. It failed to put in place the proper use of confidentiality clauses in its contracts with its former employees. Sir John sums up as follows:

Bydd y Prif Weinidog yn ymwybodol mai Dysgu ac Addysgu Cymru yw un o’r cyrff yr ymddiriedwyd iddynt y gwaith o gyflawni polisïau addysg y Llywodraeth yng Nghymru. Ni all fod wedi peidio â darllen yr adroddiad tra beirniadol ar ELWa a gyhoeddwyd y bore yma gan Syr John Bourn. Bydd yn gwybod bod rhai o sylwadau Syr John yn faterion iddo ef a’i Lywodraeth. Yn ei adroddiad mae Syr John wedi tynnu sylw at ddiffygion a gwendidau yn y rheolaeth ariannol ar weithdrefnau caffael yn ystod blwyddyn gyntaf o weithrediad ELWa, sydd wedi arwain at wariant afreolaidd o dros £2.2 miliwn. Nododd hefyd nad oedd ELWa wedi sefydlu rhai o bileri allweddol llywodraethu corfforaethol cadarn ar unwaith, a’i fod wedi gweithredu am 12 mis heb gadarnhau unrhyw reolau sefydlog neu reoliadau ariannol. Methodd â defnyddio cymalau cyfrinachedd yn briodol yn ei gontractau â’i gyn-weithwyr. Mae Syr John yn crynhoi fel a ganlyn:

‘It is a matter of concern that a body charged with conducting public business should demonstrate the shortcomings reported’.

‘Mae’n destun pryder pan fo corff sy’n gweithredu ar ran y cyhoedd yn dangos y diffygion a adroddwyd’.

When will you take responsibility for these shortcomings, First Minister, and when will you respond to these damning criticisms?

Pa bryd y gwnewch dderbyn y cyfrifoldeb am y diffygion hyn, Brif Weinidog, a pha bryd y gwnewch ymateb i’r beirniadaethau damniol hyn?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 11

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

I will respond after the Assembly’s Audit Committee has considered the National Audit Office’s report. That is the normal procedure. The National Audit Office goes through the annual accounts of every quango in Wales as well as those of our departments. It has found something wrong in ELWa’s accounts and its findings were published today. The matter will be reported to the Audit Committee and Dafydd Wigley, as Chair of that Committee, will put it on the agenda. I have read the publicity but it is not for me to say when the Audit Committee will do this. I understand that the Committee will report quickly after it has cross-examined Steve Martin, ELWa’s accounting officer, and Jon Shortridge, the Assembly’s Permanent Secretary and the accounting officer with overall responsibility for Assembly expenditure. A report will be made to the Assembly Government and it will then be up to us to respond. That is the procedure that we will follow in the normal way.

Ymatebaf wedi i Bwyllgor Archwilio’r Cynulliad ystyried adroddiad y Swyddfa Archwilio Genedlaethol. Dyna’r weithdrefn arferol. Aiff y Swyddfa Archwilio Genedlaethol drwy gyfrifon blynyddol pob cwango yng Nghymru yn ogystal â rhai ein hadrannau. Cafodd fod rhywbeth o’i le yng nghyfrifon ELWa a chyhoeddwyd ei chanfyddiadau heddiw. Caiff y mater ei adrodd i’r Pwyllgor Archwilio a bydd Dafydd Wigley, fel Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor hwnnw, yn ei roi ar yr agenda. Yr wyf wedi darllen y cyhoeddusrwydd ond nid mater i mi yw dweud pa bryd y bydd y Pwyllgor Archwilio’n gwneud hyn. Deallaf y bydd y Pwyllgor yn adrodd yn fuan wedi iddo groesholi Steve Martin, swyddog cyfrifo ELWa, a Jon Shortridge, Ysgrifennydd Parhaol y Cynulliad a’r swyddog cyfrifo sydd â chyfrifoldeb cyffredinol dros wariant y Cynulliad. Rhoddir adroddiad i Lywodraeth y Cynulliad a mater i ni fydd ymateb wedyn. Dyna’r weithdrefn a ddilynwn yn y modd arferol.

Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in English p. 11

Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

First Minister, this report not only highlights issues in relation to the accounts, but also policy shortcomings. Will you assure us that where there are policy shortcomings, for example, with regard to the use of confidentiality clauses, that either you or the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning will make a separate statement on those aspects? To give you a word of warning: one of the critical statements made by Sir John Bourn, or so it appears to everyone who has read the report—and I am surprised that you have not read it—is that there was a massive rush to set up ELWa and that it was not given time to put its feet on the ground and to consider how it would operate. Is there not a lesson for you there? Are you not also rushing headlong into a restructuring of the health service, where you could face similar problems in six months’ time?

Brif Weinidog, yn ogystal â thynnu sylw at faterion sy’n ymwneud â’r cyfrifon, mae’r adroddiad hwn hefyd yn tynnu sylw at ddiffygion polisi. A wnewch ein sicrhau, lle y mae diffygion polisi, er enghraifft, mewn cysylltiad â defnyddio cymalau cyfrinachedd, y byddwch chi neu’r Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes yn rhoi datganiad ar wahân ar yr agweddau hynny? Er mwyn rhoi gair o rybudd i chi: un o’r beirniadaethau gan Syr John Bourn, neu felly yr ymddengys i bawb a ddarllenodd yr adroddiad—ac yr wyf yn synnu nad ydych wedi’i ddarllen—yw y bu brys mawr i sefydlu ELWa ac na roddwyd digon o amser iddo roi ei draed ar y ddaear ac ystyried sut y byddai’n gweithredu. Onid oes gwers i chi yn hynny o beth? Onid ydych chithau’n rhuthro’n ddifeddwl i ailstrwythuro’r gwasanaeth iechyd, lle y gallech wynebu problemau tebyg ymhen chwe mis?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 12

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

You have tried to deliver what you referred to as a ‘warning’, Ieuan, but, if you want to be taken seriously, I will give you a warning. Do not try to do Dafydd Wigley’s job for him; he is perfectly capable of doing it himself. When he and the Audit Committee have completed their report, it will come before us and we will respond to it. That is the procedure that we must follow. If you are interested in principles of good governance, do not leap up at every opportunity like a trout seeing a fly. You are only trying to get some publicity. The matter will come before the Audit Committee, which is chaired by one of your fellow party members; let him and his Committee get on with the job. We will then respond in the proper place and at the proper time to these undoubtedly regrettable events.

Yr ydych wedi ceisio rhoi’r hyn y gwnaethoch ei alw’n ‘rhybudd’, Ieuan, ond, os ydych am gael eich cymryd o ddifrif, rhoddaf rybudd i chi. Peidiwch â cheisio gwneud gwaith Dafydd Wigley drosto; mae’n gwbl alluog i’w wneud ei hun. Pan fydd ef a’r Pwyllgor Archwilio wedi cwblhau eu hadroddiad, daw ger ein bron a gwnawn ymateb iddo. Honno yw’r weithdrefn y mae’n rhaid inni ei dilyn. Os oes gennych ddiddordeb mewn egwyddorion llywodraethu da, peidiwch â neidio at bob cyfle fel brithyll sy’n gweld plu. Nid ydych ond yn ceisio cael ychydig o gyhoeddusrwydd. Daw’r mater gerbron y Pwyllgor Archwilio, sy’n cael ei gadeirio gan un o gyd-Aelodau eich plaid; gadewch iddo ef a’i Bwyllgor fynd ymlaen â’r gwaith. Gwnawn ymateb wedyn yn y lle priodol ac ar yr adeg briodol i’r digwyddiadau hyn sy’n sicr o fod yn destun gofid.

Kirsty Williams spoken in English p. 12

Kirsty Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

The ‘Plan for Wales 2001’ pledged to tackle fuel poverty. In many parts of rural Wales, such as my constituency of Brecon and Radnorshire, many people rely on liquefied petroleum gas to heat their homes. Are you aware that the LPG energy market is unregulated, with many people tied into restrictive contracts, which they find difficult to get out of? Although oil prices are rising currently, they were falling, yet that fall was not accompanied by a fall in LPG prices. Many of my constituents have experienced a 30 per cent increase in their fuel bills over recent months.

Yr oedd ‘Cynllun i Gymru 2001’ yn addo mynd i’r afael â thlodi tanwydd. Mewn llawer rhan o’r Gymru wledig, fel fy etholaeth i, Brycheiniog a Sir Faesyfed, mae llawer o bobl yn dibynnu ar nwy petrolewm hylifedig i wresogi eu cartrefi. A ydych yn ymwybodol nad yw’r farchnad ynni LPG, a bod llawer o bobl wedi’u rhwymo i gontractau cyfyngiadol, y maent yn ei chael yn anodd dod allan ohonynt? Er bod prisiau olew yn codi ar hyn o bryd, yr oeddent yn disgyn, ond ni fu gostyngiad ym mhrisiau LPG i gyd-fynd â hynny. Bu cynnydd o 30 y cant ym miliau tanwydd llawer o’m hetholwyr dros y misoedd diwethaf.

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 12

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

I was unaware of that. I had heard of problems relating to the home energy efficiency scheme—which is a great success in trying to reduce winter fuel poverty and, therefore, winter health problems among elderly and vulnerable people particularly—in that it could not be applied to those people depending on LPG. I am not sure whether that remains the case, but I will look into that and into the rising price of LPG over the last few months.

Nid oeddwn yn ymwybodol o hynny. Yr oeddwn wedi clywed bod problemau ynghylch y cynllun effeithlonrwydd ynni cartref—sy’n llwyddiant mawr o ran lleihau tlodi tanwydd yn y gaeaf a, drwy hynny, broblemau iechyd y gaeaf ymysg pobl oedrannus a bregus yn enwedig—i’r graddau na ellid ei gymhwyso at y rhai sy’n dibynnu ar LPG. Nid wyf yn sicr a yw hynny’n dal i fod yn wir, ond ymchwiliaf i hynny ac i bris cynyddol LPG dros y misoedd diwethaf.

Nick Bourne The Leader of the Welsh Conservatives spoken in English p. 12

Nick Bourne Arweinydd Ceidwadwyr Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

The ‘Plan for Wales 2001’ included commitments to increase the number of beds in hospitals and to reduce waiting lists—both were key pledges. Last week, top surgeon Ken Shute at the Royal Gwent Hospital, Newport spoke of the severe bed shortage there, and you will recall that I raised the case of Mr Thompson of New Inn before the Christmas recess who, thankfully, has now had his operation, but only after four cancellations. Will the First Minister comment on the figures that indicate that the average number of beds available in the Gwent Healthcare NHS Trust has fallen by over 50, comparing 2000-01 with 2001-02? Does that not indicate that the policy is not being implemented, and what is he doing to address that?

Yr oedd ‘Cynllun i Gymru 2001’ yn cynnwys ymrwymiadau i gynyddu nifer y gwelyau mewn ysbytai ac i leihau rhestrau aros—yr oedd y ddau’n addewidion allweddol. Yr wythnos diwethaf, soniodd y prif lawfeddyg Ken Shute yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Gwent, Casnewydd am y prinder gwelyau difrifol yn y fan honno, a byddwch yn cofio fy mod wedi codi achos Mr Thompson o New Inn cyn toriad y Nadolig. Mae ef bellach wedi cael llawdriniaeth, diolch byth, ond dim ond ar ôl iddi gael ei gohirio bedair gwaith. A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog sylw ar y ffigurau sy’n dangos bod y nifer cyfartalog o welyau sydd ar gael yn Ymddiriedolaeth GIG Gofal Iechyd Gwent wedi gostwng o dros 50, o gymharu 2000-01 â 2001-02? Onid yw hynny’n dangos nad yw’r polisi’n cael ei weithredu, a beth y mae’n ei wneud i roi sylw i hynny?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 13

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

I am interested in these facts, but whether or not they are relevant to waiting lists depends on the sectors of those beds. For instance, having less beds in mental health wards because of care in the community is irrelevant to orthopaedic waiting lists. Much of the drive that has resulted in reducing the total number of beds in the NHS in Wales relates to a complete change in philosophy, which started under the Government of Nick’s colour, with its move towards care in the community for people with learning disabilities and mental health problems. I supported that move strongly, and some of the large institutions closed as a result of that policy. However, it makes the bed reduction figures look worse.

Ymddiddoraf yn y ffeithiau hyn, ond sectorau’r gwelyau hynny sy’n pennu a ydynt yn berthnasol i restrau aros ai peidio. Er enghraifft, byddai’r ffaith bod llai o welyau mewn wardiau iechyd meddwl oherwydd gofal yn y gymuned yn amherthnasol i restrau aros orthopedig. Mae llawer o’r ymdrech a arweiniodd at ostwng cyfanswm y nifer o welyau yn y GIG yng Nghymru’n ymwneud â newid llwyr mewn athroniaeth, a ddechreuodd o dan Lywodraeth o’r un blaid â Nick, pan symudodd tuag at ofal yn y gymuned ar gyfer pobl sydd ag anableddau dysgu a phroblemau iechyd meddwl. Yr oeddwn yn gadarn o blaid y symudiad hwnnw, a chaeodd rhai o’r sefydliadau mawr o ganlyniad i’r polisi hwnnw. Er hynny, mae’n peri bod y ffigurau am y gostyngiad yn nifer y gwelyau yn ymddangos yn waeth.

Undoubtedly, we have tight margins in terms of bed availability and classic medicine and surgery, but we should not reduce the pressure on hospitals to make much better use of day-case facilities. We are not as proficient as other countries—America, Australia and others—in providing more surgery through the day-case facility. That makes the issue with beds less relevant. However, I agree that how tight our margins are—should we be working at 90 per cent bed occupancy, 85 per cent or whatever—is an issue, and we must keep pressing hospitals to perform more day-case surgery.

Nid oes dwywaith nad oes gennym fawr o le i symud o ran argaeledd gwelyau a meddygaeth a llawfeddygaeth glasurol, ond ni ddylem leihau’r pwysau ar ysbytai i ddefnyddio cyfleusterau achosion dydd yn llawer gwell. Nid ydym mor fedrus â gwledydd eraill—America, Awstralia ac eraill—o ran darparu rhagor o lawdriniaethau drwy’r cyfleuster achosion dydd. Mae hynny’n peri i bwnc y gwelyau fod yn llai perthnasol. Fodd bynnag, cytunaf fod maint y lle i symud sydd gennym—a ddylem weithio gan lenwi 90 y cant o’r gwelyau, 85 y cant neu beth bynnag—yn fater sy’n codi, a rhaid inni ddal i bwyso ar ysbytai i wneud rhagor o lawdriniaethau achosion dydd.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 13

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

The record will show that the reduction in the number of beds during those two years has nothing to do with care in the community. However, do you not agree that Labour’s promises in 1999 to reduce waiting lists—that nobody would wait over six months for out-patient treatment and nobody would wait over 18 months for in-patient treatment—were cynical? Do you not agree that they were misleading? Will you take this opportunity to undertake that your next manifesto will contain no such misleading promises, and will you apologise for misleading the people of Wales in your last manifesto?

Bydd y cofnod yn dangos nad oes a wnelo’r gostyngiad yn nifer y gwelyau yn ystod y ddwy flynedd hynny ddim â gofal yn y gymuned. Fodd bynnag, onid ydych yn cytuno bod addewidion Llafur yn 1999 i leihau rhestrau aros—na fyddai neb yn aros yn hwy na chwe mis am driniaeth claf allanol ac na fyddai neb yn aros yn hwy na 18 mis am driniaeth claf mewnol—yn rhai sinigaidd? Onid ydych yn cytuno eu bod yn gamarweiniol? A wnewch achub ar y cyfle hwn i ymgymryd na fydd addewidion camarweiniol o’r fath yn eich maniffesto nesaf, ac a wnewch ymddiheuro am gamarwain pobl Cymru yn eich maniffesto diwethaf?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 14

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

I reject your use of the words ‘cynical’ and ‘misleading’. As I have explained on several occasions, there is a shortage of capacity to treat, because we do not have enough doctors and nurses in the health service. However, we are seeking ways of recruiting faster and prolonging the active working life of general practitioners—through the golden thanks procedure, which is working well—and recruiting students after they complete vocational training schemes. I mentioned that. Having enough doctors to treat patients is key. Beds are also important, but people fix patients, if you like, rather than beds.

Gwrthodaf eich defnydd o’r geiriau ‘sinigaidd’ a ‘chamarweiniol’. Fel yr eglurais ar sawl achlysur, mae prinder capasiti i roi triniaeth, am nad oes gennym ddigon o feddygon a nyrsys yn y gwasanaeth iechyd. Fodd bynnag, yr ydym yn chwilio am foddau i recriwtio’n gyflymach ac ymestyn bywyd gwaith gweithredol meddygon teulu—drwy’r weithdrefn taliadau diolch, sy’n gweithio’n dda—a recriwtio myfyrwyr wedi iddynt gwblhau cynlluniau hyfforddiant galwedigaethol. Yr wyf wedi sôn am hynny. Mae cael digon o feddygon i drin cleifion yn allweddol. Mae gwelyau’n bwysig hefyd, ond pobl sy’n gwella cleifion, nid gwelyau.

There were no misleading or cynical promises; those promises were made in good faith. They underestimated how the demand for out-patient facilities would shoot up due to our various service plans, which have sought out people with illnesses that they previously did not realise they had. This applies particularly to cardiac surgery and mental health in terms of our main priority areas. That is why the number of people demanding hospital treatment has increased so sharply; it results in great difficulty in getting adequate hospital throughput. However, we will be able to solve that problem once the medical recruitment to which I referred—the increase of 89 per cent in the medical student intake—takes effect in a few years’ time.

Nid oedd unrhyw addewidion camarweiniol neu sinigaidd; yr oeddent yn addewidion diffuant. Yr oeddent yn rhoi amcan rhy isel o’r cynnydd syfrdanol yn y galw am gyfleusterau cleifion allanol oherwydd ein gwahanol gynlluniau gwasanaeth, sydd wedi chwilio am bobl sydd ag anhwylderau na wyddent eu bod arnynt cyn hynny. Mae hynny’n arbennig o wir am lawfeddygaeth gardïaidd ac iechyd meddwl yng nghyd-destun ein prif feysydd blaenoriaeth. Dyna pam y bu cynnydd mor sydyn yn y nifer o bobl sy’n galw am gael eu trin mewn ysbyty; mae’n peri ei bod yn anodd iawn cael digon o drwygyrch mewn ysbytai. Er hynny, byddwn yn gallu datrys y broblem honno pan fydd y recriwtio meddygol y cyfeiriais ato—y cynnydd o 89 y cant yn nifer y myfyrwyr meddygol a dderbynnir—yn cael effaith ymhen ychydig o flynyddoedd.

Ymweliad â Chaernarfon

Visit to Caernarfon

C5 Dafydd Wigley siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 14

Q5 Dafydd Wigley spoken in Welsh p. 14

A wnaiff Prif Weinidog Cymru ddatganiad ar ei ymweliad â Chaernarfon yn gynharach y mis yma? (OAQ21010)

Will the First Minister make a statement on his visit to Caernarfon earlier this month? (OAQ21010)

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 15

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 15

Ar 10 Ionawr ymwelais â phencadlys rhanbarth gorllewinol yr heddlu yng Nghaernarfon, sydd yn gwasanaethu Gwynedd ac Ynys Môn. Ymwelais â’r cyfleusterau yno, a derbyniais wybodaeth ar faterion yn ymwneud â throsedd ac anhrefn yn lleol, ac ar y broblem gyffuriau. Cefais y pleser o weld y system rheoli cofnodion newydd, sef yr orau ym Mhrydain Fawr, a’r gyntaf i fod yn hollol ddibynnol ar gyfrifiaduron o blith holl heddluoedd y Deyrnas Gyfunol.

On 10 January I visited the western divisional police headquarters in Caernarfon, which serves Gwynedd and Anglesey. I visited the facilities there, and received a briefing on local crime and disorder matters, as well as on the drugs problem. I had the pleasure of seeing the new record management system, the best in Great Britain, and the first to be entirely dependent on computers across all United Kingdom police forces.

Dafydd Wigley siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 15

Dafydd Wigley spoken in Welsh p. 15

Cymeraf, felly, mai ymweliad swyddogol oedd hwnnw â Chaernarfon. Yr ydych yn ymwybodol bod Cyngor Gwynedd wedi eich gwahodd i Gaernarfon dair gwaith yn ystod y 18 mis diwethaf i drafod materion o bwys i’r cyngor ac i’r Cynulliad. Ar ba sail y gwnewch eich penderfyniadau o ran blaenoriaethu ymweliadau? Penderfynasoch ymweld â’r heddlu, nad yw’r Cynulliad yn gyfrifol amdano, tra’n gwrthod ymweld â Chyngor Gwynedd, sydd â’i bolisïau, i raddau helaeth, yn deillio o’r Cynulliad.

I take it, therefore, that that was an official visit to Caernarfon. You are aware that Gwynedd Council has invited you to Caernarfon three times during the past 18 months to discuss important matters for the council and for the Assembly. On what basis do you make your decisions regarding prioritising visits? You decided to visit the police, for which the Assembly is not responsible, while refusing to visit Gwynedd Council, whose policies, to a great extent, emanate from the Assembly.

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 15

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 15

Soniais yn gynharach am bwysigrwydd peidio â hollti blew. Dyna yr ydych yn ei wneud wrth geisio gwahaniaethu rhwng ymweliadau swyddogol ac ymweliadau mwy gwleidyddol. Ni chredaf y byddai unrhyw un yn ceisio dirnad a yw Prif Weinidog y Deyrnas Gyfunol yn siarad fel arweinydd plaid neu fel y Prif Weinidog.

I mentioned earlier the importance of not splitting hairs. That is what you are doing in trying to differentiate between official visits and visits that are more political. I do not believe that anyone would try to discern whether the Prime Minister was talking as party leader or as the Prime Minister.

Yr hyn sy’n bwysig yw mai ymgynghorwyr arbenigol, ac nid gweision sifil, oedd yn bresennol. Nid wyf yn siŵr, felly, beth yr ydych am alw hynny—ymweliad gwleidyddol neu ymweliad yn ymwneud â’m swyddogaethau fel Prif Weinidog? Peidiwch, er mwyn y mawredd, â difetha tri mis olaf y Cynulliad presennol drwy geisio dweud fy mod yn gwneud hyn a hyn fel arweinydd plaid, a hyn a hyn fel Prif Weinidog. Bydd blerwch llwyr os ydych yn canolbwyntio ar brosesau yn hytrach nag ar gwestiynau lle ceir anghytundeb ar faterion polisi.

What is important is that it was special advisers, rather than civil servants, who were present. I am not sure, therefore, what you would call that—a political visit or a visit as part of my functions as First Minister? Do not, for heaven’s sake, spoil the last three months of the present Assembly by claiming that I am doing so and so as party leader, and so and so as First Minister. There will be a terrible mess if you concentrate on process rather than on questions where there is disagreement on policy matters.

Dafydd Wigley siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 15

Dafydd Wigley spoken in Welsh p. 15

Pwynt o drefn. Fy nghwestiwn oedd pam na fu modd i’r Prif Weinidog gwrdd â Chyngor Gwynedd? A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ateb y cwestiwn hwnnw?

Point of order. My question was why was it not possible for the First Minister to meet with Gwynedd Council? Will the First Minister answer that question?

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 16

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 16

Deuwn yn ôl at y pwynt o drefn hwnnw yn dilyn y cwestiynau i’r Prif Weinidog.

We will return to that point of order following questions to the First Minister.

David Ian Jones spoken in English p. 16

David Ian Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

I am sorry that when you were in the Caernarfon constituency, First Minister, you did not have the opportunity to visit the Dinorwig power station in Llanberis, which, as you know, is one of the most innovative projects of its kind. If you had had the opportunity of going there you would have learned that there have been sweeping redundancies at the power station, that part of it is in mothballs, and that there is concern in the area that it may be closed down completely. Given the importance of Dinorwig power station to the local economy, what steps are you taking to ensure its future viability?

Mae’n ddrwg gennyf, Brif Weinidog, na chawsoch gyfle pan oeddech yn etholaeth Caernarfon i ymweld â gorsaf ynni Dinorwig yn Llanberis, sydd, fel y gwyddoch, ymhlith y prosiectau mwyaf arloesol o’i fath. Pe byddech wedi cael y cyfle i fynd yno byddech wedi cael gwybod bod llu o ddiswyddiadau wedi bod yn yr orsaf ynni, bod rhan o’r orsaf yn segur a bod pryder yn yr ardal y gallai gael ei chau’n gyfan gwbl. O ystyried pwysigrwydd gorsaf ynni Dinorwig i’r economi leol, pa gamau yr ydych yn eu cymryd i sicrhau y bydd yn hyfyw yn y dyfodol?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 16

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

Andrew Davies and I hosted an energy summit with representatives of some 30 or so energy generating companies—gas, electricity and others—just before Christmas. Representatives of the company that owns the hydroelectric stations in Dinorwig and Maentwrog were present at that meeting. All those present expressed great concern about the impact of NETA, or the new electricity trading arrangements, on generators, and how they have caused the mothballing of facilities in Newport, Connah’s Quay, and, more recently, in north-west Wales. It is regrettable, and is one consequence of bringing in a new system. We were able to achieve a collective Welsh view that NETA is not adapting well and may need to be re-considered; that may be covered in the energy White Paper. We will pass those views to the Department of Trade and Industry.

Gwnaeth Andrew Davies a minnau gynnal uwchgynhadledd ynni gyda chynrychiolwyr tua 30 o gwmnïau cynhyrchu ynni—rhai nwy, trydan ac eraill—ychydig cyn y Nadolig. Yr oedd cynrychiolwyr y cwmni sy’n berchen ar y gorsafoedd trydan dŵr yn Ninorwig a Maentwrog yn bresennol yn y cyfarfod hwnnw. Mynegwyd pryder mawr gan bawb a oedd yn bresennol am effaith NETA, neu’r trefniadau masnachu trydan newydd, ar gynhyrchwyr, a’r modd y maent wedi peri rhoi cyfleusterau o’r neilltu yng Nghasnewydd, Cei Connah, ac yn fwy diweddar, yn y Gogledd-orllewin. Mae’n destun gofid, ac yn un o ganlyniadau cyflwyno system newydd. Gallasom sicrhau barn gyfunol Gymreig nad oedd NETA yn ymgyfaddasu’n dda ac y gallai fod angen eu hailystyried; efallai yr ymdrinnir â hynny yn y Papur Gwyn ar ynni. Rhown wybod am y farn honno i’r Adran Masnach a Diwydiant.

CMC Cymru

Wales’s GDP

Q6 Peter Rogers spoken in English p. 16

C6 Peter Rogers siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

Will the Minister make a statement on the Cardiff Business School reports, published in The Western Mail (18/12/02), of Wales’s falling gross domestic product? (OAQ21606)

A wnaiff Prif Weinidog Cymru ddatganiad ar adroddiadau Ysgol Fusnes Caerdydd a gyhoeddwyd yn The Western Mail (18/01/02), ynghylch cynnyrch mewnwladol crynswth Cymru? (OAQ21606)

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 17

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

When answering your questions, I often feel as though I am in a parallel universe. The report stated that Wales’s GDP was rising not falling. On the economic front, I am sure that you welcome last week’s announcements of new Airbus orders from Malaysia, 180 additional jobs at Oskosh in Llantrisant, CoGen in Newport and Halifax Bank of Scotland in Cardiff, and the commencement of the urban village project at Llandarcy.

Wrth ateb eich cwestiynau chi, teimlaf yn aml fy mod mewn bydysawd cyfochrog. Nododd yr adroddiad mai cynyddu yr oedd CMC Cymru, nid disgyn. O ran yr economi, yr wyf yn siŵr eich bod yn croesawu’r cyhoeddiadau yr wythnos diwethaf am archebion newydd am awyrennau Airbus o Faleisia, 180 o swyddi ychwanegol yn Oskosh yn Llantrisant, CoGen yng Nghasnewydd a Halifax Bank of Scotland yng Nghaerdydd, a chychwyn y pentref trefol yn Llandarcy.

Peter Rogers spoken in English p. 17

Peter Rogers siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

I was referring to the widening wealth gap.

Yr oeddwn yn cyfeirio at y bwlch cynyddol mewn cyfoeth.

We are two years down the road of Objective 1, and approaching the mid-term period. This report is a damning indictment of Objective 1, highlighting the fact that it has been a wasted opportunity. There is no better example of that than the Farming Connect scheme. You will be aware that the Assembly cannot administer the grants, thereby preventing further authorised agreed schemes from proceeding. Can you order an immediate inquiry into why these grants cannot be paid on time?

Yr ydym yn cerdded ffordd Amcan 1 ers dwy flynedd, ac yn dynesu at y tymor canol. Mae’r adroddiad hwn yn gondemniad o Amcan 1, gan dynnu sylw at y ffaith ei fod yn gyfle a wastraffwyd. Nid oes gwell enghraifft o hynny na’r cynllun Cyswllt Ffermio. Byddwch yn ymwybodol na all y Cynulliad weinyddu’r grantiau, ac mae hynny’n atal cynlluniau pellach sydd wedi’u cytuno a’u hawdurdodi rhag mynd yn eu blaen. A allwch orchymyn ymchwiliad ar unwaith i ganfod pam na ellir talu’r grantiau hyn yn brydlon?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 17

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

I am glad that you have withdrawn the allegation that GDP was reported to have fallen when it was in fact rising. I am pleased that you now realise that your question was completely wrong, which is why you have changed the subject to Farming Connect. Well done, Peter, you have got something right today, even if I had to draw your attention to it.

Mae’n dda gennyf eich bod wedi tynnu’n ôl yr haeriad bod adroddiad i’r perwyl bod y CMC yn disgyn, a hwnnw’n codi mewn gwirionedd. Yr wyf yn falch eich bod bellach yn sylweddoli bod eich cwestiwn yn gwbl anghywir, a dyna pam yr ydych wedi newid y pwnc i sôn am Cyswllt Ffermio. Da iawn chi, Peter, yr ydych wedi cael rhywbeth yn iawn heddiw, er fy mod wedi gorfod tynnu’ch sylw ato.

You also mentioned Objective 1. It has in fact been a great success, with £415 million of Objective 1 money committed. That money, along with private sector finance and match funding, means that we are close to the £1 billion target. There is no question of any money being sent back to Europe. The situation is in line with the strategic objectives that were set out; you cannot ask for more than that. The spending is up-to-scratch, but it is not spending for spending’s sake in order to avoid de-commitment. It is spending in line with the strategy. We said that we would do it, and we have.

Gwnaethoch sôn am Amcan 1 hefyd. Bu’n llwyddiant mawr mewn gwirionedd, ac mae £415 miliwn o arian Amcan 1 wedi’i rwymo. Mae’r arian hwnnw, ynghyd â chyllid y sector preifat ac arian cyfatebol, yn golygu ein bod yn agos at y targed o £1 biliwn. Nid oes unrhyw bosibilrwydd o anfon unrhyw arian yn ôl i Ewrop. Mae’r sefyllfa’n unol â’r amcanion strategol a osodwyd; ni ellir gofyn mwy na hynny. Mae’r gwario’n foddhaol, ond nid gwario er mwyn gwario ydyw i osgoi dadrwymo. Gwario sy’n unol â’r strategaeth ydyw. Dywedasom y byddem yn gwneud hynny, ac yr ydym wedi’i wneud.

Peter Rogers spoken in English p. 18

Peter Rogers siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

The delivery of the funds—

Mae darparu’r arian—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 18

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

Order. You have already asked a supplementary question, Peter.

Trefn. Yr ydych eisoes wedi gofyn cwestiwn atodol, Peter.

Elin Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 18

Elin Jones spoken in Welsh p. 18

Mae’r holl ragamcanion yn dweud bod y bwlch yn lledu rhwng CMC y pen yng Nghymru a’r cyfartaledd yng ngweddill y Deyrnas Gyfunol. Yn eich strategaeth economaidd, yr ydych hefyd yn dweud eich bod yn bwriadu lleihau’r bwlch rhwng lefel incwm yng Nghymru a gweddill y Deyrnas Gyfunol. Er hyn, mae lefelau cyflogau gweithwyr yng Nghymru wedi gostwng o 89 y cant o’r cyfartaledd Prydeinig yn 1998 i 86 y cant yn 2002. Bron i bedair blynedd ers ethol eich Llywodraeth, a ydych yn barod i dderbyn bod eich polisïau wedi methu â gwrthdroi a chryfhau seiliau economi Cymru?

All the projections state that the gap is widening between GDP per capita in Wales and the average figure in the rest of the United Kingdom. In your economic strategy, you also state that you intend to narrow the gap between the income level in Wales and that of the rest of the UK. Despite this, the levels of workers’ salaries in Wales have decreased from 89 per cent of the UK average in 1998 to 86 per cent in 2002. Almost four years after your Government was elected, are you prepared to accept that your policies have failed to transform and strengthen the foundations of Wales’s economy?

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 18

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 18

Nid oes angen ichi helpu Peter Rogers i osod ei gwestiynau nac i ofyn y cwestiynau yr oedd yn bwriadu eu gofyn. Os nad yw Peter yn gallu gofyn cwestiwn, gadewch iddo ddysgu ei wers.

You need not help Peter Rogers to set questions and to ask the questions that he intended to ask. If Peter cannot ask a question, then let him learn his lesson.

O ran lefelau cyflogau, yr oedd y ffigurau diwethaf a gyhoeddwyd gan y Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol yn datgan fod y lefel wedi codi o 4.7 y cant yng Nghymru yn ystod y flwyddyn ddiwethaf o’i gymharu â 4.6 y cant ym Mhrydain i gyd. O ran y rhagolygon ar gyfer 2003, dywedodd dau arolwg gan Manpower a Reed Employment Services—a chydnabyddaf mai arolygon yn unig ydynt, felly ni allaf roi gormod o bwyslais arnynt—mai gan Gymru y mae’r rhagolygon gorau o ran cynnydd mewn cyflogaeth yn ystod 2003.

On salary levels, the latest figures published by the Office for National Statistics stated that the level had increased by 4.7 per cent in Wales during the last year compared with 4.6 per cent in the UK as a whole. In terms of the prospects for 2003, two surveys by Manpower and Reed Employment Services—and I acknowledge that they are only surveys, therefore I cannot put too much weight on their results—have stated that Wales has the best prospects in terms of increased employment for 2003.

Effaith Cysylltiadau Trafnidiaeth ar Ddatblygu Economaidd yng Nghymru

Effects of Transport Links on Economic Development in Wales

Q7 Brian Hancock spoken in English p. 18

C7 Brian Hancock siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

Will the First Minister make a statement on the effect of transport links on economic development in Wales? (OAQ21611)

A wnaiff Prif Weinidog Cymru ddatganiad ar effaith y cysylltiadau trafnidiaeth ar ddatblygu economaidd yng Nghymru? (OAQ21611)

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 18

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

Good transport links, along with an available, trained workforce and good business support, are acknowledged as an absolute prerequisite for economic development, whether those links are for commuting or for getting goods or supplies in or out. They are vital and are the means by which people access employment.

Cydnabyddir bod cysylltiadau trafnidiaeth da, ynghyd â gweithlu sydd wedi’i hyfforddi ac sydd ar gael, a chymorth busnes da, yn gwbl angenrheidiol ar gyfer datblygu economaidd, boed y cysylltiadau hynny ar gyfer cymudo neu anfon neu dderbyn nwyddau neu gyflenwadau. Maent yn hollbwysig a thrwyddynt hwy y mae pobl yn cael cyflogaeth.

Brian Hancock spoken in English p. 19

Brian Hancock siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

In my constituency, I have promoted the regeneration of the former Navigation Colliery site at Crumlin for economic development and have raised the need for a park-and-ride rail station on the Ebbw valley railway line. What action has your Government taken to ensure that the effects of economic development are covered in the new rail franchise?

Yn fy etholaeth i, yr wyf wedi hyrwyddo adfywio safle cyn-lofa Navigation yng Nghrymlyn ar gyfer datblygu economaidd ac wedi tynnu sylw at yr angen am orsaf reilffordd parcio a theithio ar reilffordd glyn Ebwy. Pa gamau y mae’ch Llywodraeth wedi’u cymryd i sicrhau yr ymdrinnir ag effeithiau datblygu economaidd yn y fasnachfraint reilffyrdd newydd?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 19

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

One of the basic aims of the rail franchise is to ensure that the Ebbw valley communities seriously affected by job losses, especially at the top of the Ebbw valley, but not excluding the area in the middle that you represent, Brian, are able to access jobs over a wider geographical area than they previously could. There is a case for commuting upwards as well as downwards, particularly in your area, with General Dynamics UK Ltd moving in. That is the effect of transport—it is not all one-way; it works both ways. People from coastal communities will access jobs in the Valleys, and vice versa. That includes the project to which you have referred at the Navigation Colliery site, although I am not familiar with the details.

Un o nodau sylfaenol y fasnachfraint reilffyrdd yw sicrhau bod y cymunedau yng nglyn Ebwy y mae colledion swyddi wedi effeithio’n ddifrifol arnynt, yn enwedig ym mhen uchaf glyn Ebwy, ond heb ddiystyru’r ardal yn y canol a gynrychiolwch chi, Brian, yn gallu cyrraedd swyddi mewn ardal ddaearyddol ehangach nag yr oeddent o’r blaen. Mae dadl dros gymudo i fyny yn ogystal ag i lawr, yn enwedig yn eich ardal chi, gan fod General Dynamics UK Cyf. yn symud i mewn. Dyna effaith trafnidiaeth—nid yw’r cwbl yn mynd i un cyfeiriad; mae’n gweithio’r ddwy ffordd. Bydd pobl o gymunedau ar yr arfordir yn cael swyddi yn y Cymoedd, ac fel arall. Mae hynny’n cynnwys y prosiect y cyfeiriasoch ato ar safle glofa Navigation, er nad wyf yn gyfarwydd â’r manylion.

John Griffiths spoken in English p. 19

John Griffiths siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

The Strategic Rail Authority and Network Rail are considering changes which may result in freeing-up enough capacity at Newport to allow the Ebbw Vale passenger link to be routed there at the same time as the Ebbw Vale to Cardiff link is established. Given Newport’s economic importance to south-east Wales, including Ebbw Vale, do you agree that the route to Newport should be established at the same time as the route to Cardiff, and would it be possible to consider the compromise of an Ebbw Vale to Cardiff link, via Newport?

Mae’r Awdurdod Rheilffyrdd Strategol a Network Rail yn ystyried newidiadau a allai arwain at ryddhau digon o gapasiti yng Nghasnewydd i hwyluso gosod llwybr y cyswllt teithwyr â Glynebwy i’r fan honno ar yr un pryd ag y sefydlir y cyswllt rhwng Glynebwy a Chaerdydd. O wybod mor bwysig yw Casnewydd i economi’r De-ddwyrain, gan gynnwys Glynebwy, a gytunwch y dylid sefydlu’r llwybr i Gasnewydd ar yr un pryd â’r llwybr i Gaerdydd, ac a fyddai modd ystyried y cyfaddawd o gael cyswllt rhwng Glynebwy a Chaerdydd, drwy Gasnewydd?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 19

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

We can consider all of those possibilities, but it will not be possible to finance a service to Newport as well as Cardiff in 2005. The SRA does not envisage being able to fund the revenue costs of running both services. You are correct in saying that the SRA and Network Rail have recently re-examined the capacity on the main line around the Gaer junction and the tunnel under the Gaer into Newport station, and have found that, as a result of reduced estimates of the intensity of traffic through Newport and the tunnel, there may be spare capacity by 2005. That would mean that the line could run to Newport but it would do so in place of running to Cardiff—it would be a matter of choice. We are proceeding on the basis that the new service will run from Ebbw Vale to Cardiff, but that Newport could become an option if further Network Rail and SRA studies confirm the initial speculation that there is spare capacity at Newport station and on the signalling system.

Gallwn ystyried yr holl bosibiliadau hynny, ond ni fydd modd cyllido gwasanaeth i Gasnewydd yn ogystal â Chaerdydd yn 2005. Nid yw’r Awdurdod Rheilffyrdd Strategol yn rhagweld y bydd yn gallu cyllido’r costau refeniw o redeg y ddau wasanaeth. Yr ydych yn gywir wrth ddweud bod yr Awdurdod Rheilffyrdd Strategol a Network Rail wedi ailarchwilio’r capasiti ar y brif linell o gwmpas cyffordd y Gaer a’r twnnel o dan y Gaer i orsaf Casnewydd yn ddiweddar, a’u bod wedi cael, o ganlyniad i amcangyfrifon is o ddwysedd y traffig drwy Gasnewydd a’r twnnel, ei bod yn bosibl y bydd capasiti dros ben erbyn 2005. Golygai hynny y gallai’r llinell redeg i Gasnewydd ond byddai’n rhedeg i’r fan honno yn hytrach na Chaerdydd—byddai’n fater o ddewis. Yr ydym yn mynd rhagom gan ddeall y bydd y gwasanaeth newydd yn rhedeg o Lynebwy i Gaerdydd, ond y gallai Casnewydd ddod yn ddewis os bydd astudiaethau pellach gan Network Rail a’r Awdurdod Rheilffyrdd Strategol yn cadarnhau’r dyfalu dechreuol bod capasiti dros ben yng ngorsaf Casnewydd ac yn y system signalau.

David Davies spoken in English p. 20

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

Do you accept that improving transport infrastructure is vital for economic development in Wales? Do you also agree that the dreadful congestion on the M4 every morning is damaging our ability to encourage and attract investment into Wales? What does your Government propose to do about this?

A ydych yn derbyn ei bod yn hollbwysig gwella’r seilwaith trafnidiaeth er mwyn datblygu economaidd yng Nghymru? A ydych hefyd yn cytuno bod y tagfeydd ofnadwy ar yr M4 bob bore yn amharu ar ein gallu i annog buddsoddi a’i ddenu i Gymru? Beth y mae’ch Llywodraeth yn bwriadu ei wneud am hynny?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 20

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

The congestion on the M4, especially around the Brynglas tunnels, is a major concern. The situation is being studied with a view to preparing options for solving the problem in the usual way. If we receive proposals for relieving congestion at the Brynglas tunnels, we will publish them and consult upon them in the usual way. It is one of the most difficult—if not the most difficult—of the transport blockages on routes into south Wales. Failure to get past the Brynglas tunnels would mean that all economic development in Wales would have to take place between the Brynglas tunnels and the Severn bridge, which would not be a happy conclusion for any other area in south or mid Wales. That would happen if the congestion continues. However, we believe that these studies will offer solutions, and we will consult on the different proposals. They will be published and consulted upon in the usual way.

Mae’r tagfeydd ar yr M4, yn enwedig o gwmpas twnelau Bryn-glas, yn peri pryder mawr. Mae’r sefyllfa’n cael ei hastudio gyda golwg ar baratoi dewisiadau i ddatrys y broblem yn y modd arferol. Os cawn gynigion ar gyfer lliniaru’r tagfeydd wrth dwnelau Bryn-glas, fe’u cyhoeddwn ac ymgynghori arnynt yn y modd arferol. Mae’n un o’r anhawsaf—os nad yr anhawsaf un—o’r rhwystrau i drafnidiaeth ar lwybrau yn y De. Byddai methu â mynd heibio i dwnelau Bryn-glas yn golygu y byddai’r holl ddatblygu economaidd yng Nghymru’n gorfod digwydd rhwng twnelau Bryn-glas a phont Hafren, ac ni fyddai hynny’n ganlyniad boddhaol i unrhyw ardal arall yn y De neu’r Canolbarth. Digwyddai hynny os bydd y tagfeydd yn parhau. Fodd bynnag, credwn y bydd yr astudiaethau hyn yn cynnig atebion, a gwnawn ymgynghori ar y gwahanol gynigion. Fe’u cyhoeddir ac ymgynghorir arnynt yn y modd arferol.

Peter Law spoken in English p. 20

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

Your announcement on the reopening of the passenger rail service from Ebbw Vale to Cardiff has been widely applauded, and we look forward to the line opening in 2005. It is vital that the whole of the coastal area is accessible to the former Corus workers in Ebbw Vale so that they can find new employment, not just in Cardiff, but in Newport also. Can you confirm that this reopening will be on schedule for 2005, and that you will do everything possible to try to include Newport on this line, which must terminate at Cardiff as far as we are concerned?

Mae’ch cyhoeddiad am ailagor y gwasanaeth rheilffyrdd teithwyr o Lynebwy i Gaerdydd wedi’i ganmol yn gyffredinol, ac edrychwn ymlaen at agor y llinell yn 2005. Mae’n hollbwysig bod cyn-weithwyr Corus yng Nglynebwy yn gallu cyrraedd y cyfan o’r ardal arfordirol fel y gallant ddod o hyd i waith newydd, nid yn unig yng Nghaerdydd, ond yng Nghasnewydd hefyd. A allwch gadarnhau y bydd yr ailagor hwn yn digwydd yn unol â’r amserlen yn 2005, ac a wnewch bopeth sy’n bosibl i geisio cynnwys Casnewydd yn y llinell hon, sy’n gorfod dod i ben yng Nghaerdydd o’n rhan ni?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 21

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

Not everyone in Newport, and perhaps other areas, will share your views, as you know Peter. You are right in the sense that—I repeat what I said earlier—until the situation becomes clearer in terms of spare capacity, we are proceeding on the basis that this is an Ebbw Vale to Cardiff service, and the SRA has received the bid to open in 2005 unless something dramatic happens between now and then. There is no chance of running two services on that line with revenue funding from the SRA. It will not pay for it, but the bid is on the basis of an Ebbw Vale to Cardiff service. We may have an alternative to consider if, in the next year to 18 months, the SRA and Network Rail confirm John Griffiths’s earlier points.

Ni fydd pawb yng Nghasnewydd, ac efallai mewn ardaloedd eraill, o’r un farn â chi, fel y gwyddoch, Peter. Yr ydych yn gywir wrth ddweud—ailadroddaf yr hyn a ddywedais yn gynharach—ein bod yn mynd rhagom, hyd nes y daw’r sefyllfa’n eglurach o ran capasiti dros ben, gan ddeall mai gwasanaeth o Lynebwy i Gaerdydd yw hwn, ac mae’r Awdurdod Rheilffyrdd Strategol wedi derbyn y cais i’w agor yn 2005 oni bai fod rhywbeth trawiadol yn digwydd yn y cyfamser. Nid oes gobaith rhedeg dau wasanaeth ar y llinell honno gyda chyllid refeniw gan yr Awdurdod Rheilffyrdd Strategol. Ni wnaiff dalu amdano, ond mae’r cais yn seiliedig ar wasanaeth o Lynebwy i Gaerdydd. Efallai y cawn ddewis arall i’w ystyried os bydd yr awdurdod a Network Rail yn cadarnhau’r pwyntiau a wnaeth John Griffiths yn gynharach, o fewn y flwyddyn neu’r 18 mis nesaf.

Janet Davies spoken in English p. 21

Janet Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

As you are aware, flights between Brussels and Cardiff were withdrawn without notice on 5 January. It is having a severe effect on business people promoting economic development in south-east Wales. It will also increase movement of traffic on the roads between Cardiff and London. Have you discussed with any of the relevant players the possibility of British Airways keeping the Brussels slots to itself, for use by another airport?

Fel y gwyddoch, tynnwyd yn ôl yr ehediadau rhwng Brwsel a Chaerdydd yn ddirybudd ar 5 Ionawr. Mae hynny’n effeithio’n ddifrifol ar bobl busnes sy’n hyrwyddo datblygu economaidd yn y De-ddwyrain. Bydd hefyd yn cynyddu’r traffig ar y ffyrdd rhwng Caerdydd a Llundain. A ydych wedi trafod gydag unrhyw un o’r rhai cysylltiedig y posibilrwydd y bydd British Airways yn cadw’r rhicynnau ar gyfer Brwsel iddo’i hun, i’w defnyddio gan faes awyr arall?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 21

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

We are pleased that the Paris service has not been abandoned. However, the same is not true of the Brussels flights. It is regrettable that BA has taken that precipitative action. It will have an effect not only on business, but also on the conduct of government. Local government and Assembly Members use that Brussels link frequently. It is inconvenient for us not to be able to do that directly from a local airport. I am surprised that BA has decided that there is no way that route can be profitable, considering the price of tickets for that route, which was fairly high. It is perhaps the shame factor of comparing its prices with those of bmibaby, which caused it to pull out of Cardiff altogether.

Yr ydym yn falch na roddwyd y gorau i’r gwasanaeth i Baris. Fodd bynnag, nid yw hynny’n wir am yr ehediadau i Frwsel. Mae’n destun gofid bod BA wedi cymryd y cam byrbwyll hwnnw. Bydd yn effeithio nid yn unig ar fusnes, ond ar gynnal llywodraeth hefyd. Mae llywodraeth leol ac Aelodau o’r Cynulliad yn defnyddio’r cyswllt hwnnw â Brwsel yn aml. Mae’n anghyfleus i ni nad ydym yn gallu gwneud hynny’n uniongyrchol o faes awyr lleol. Yr wyf yn synnu bod BA wedi penderfynu nad oes modd i’r llwybr hwnnw fod yn broffidiol, o ystyried pris y tocynnau ar gyfer y llwybr hwnnw, a oedd yn eithaf uchel. Efallai mai’r cywilydd o gymharu ei brisiau â rhai bmibaby a barodd iddo dynnu allan o Gaerdydd yn gyfan gwbl.

Eleanor Burnham spoken in English p. 22

Eleanor Burnham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

How do you respond to the Welsh Affairs Select Committee’s criticism of the Welsh rail service? I have questioned you previously, in Plenary and in Committee, on the SRA’s low priority and apparent disregard for the Welsh rail service, both for passengers and for economic development. The Welsh Liberal Democrats—and I am sure you will allow me to say this, Llywydd—are hoping to—

Beth yw’ch ymateb i feirniadaeth y Pwyllgor Dethol ar Faterion Cymreig o’r gwasanaeth rheilffyrdd yng Nghymru? Yr wyf wedi’ch holi o’r blaen, yn y Cyfarfod Llawn ac yn y Pwyllgor, am y flaenoriaeth isel y mae’r Awdurdod Rheilffyrdd Strategol yn ei rhoi i’r gwasanaeth rheilffyrdd yng Nghymru, a’i ddiffyg sylw iddo, i bob golwg, ar gyfer teithwyr a datblygu economaidd. Mae Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru—ac yr wyf yn siŵr y caniatewch imi ddweud hyn, Lywydd—yn gobeithio—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 22

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

Order. No, I will not. We are already out of time for the question. I have been generous and would like short and sharp supplementaries, which are relevant to the subject.

Trefn. Na wnaf. Mae’r amser ar gyfer y cwestiwn hwn wedi dod i ben eisoes. Bûm yn hael a hoffwn gael cwestiynau atodol byr a chyflym, sy’n berthnasol i’r pwnc.

Eleanor Burnham spoken in English p. 22

Eleanor Burnham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

How will you address the SRAs apparent underfunding and Welsh rail users’ concerns, which the Liberal Democrats will be raising tomorrow?

Sut y gwnewch ymdrin â thanariannu ymddangosiadol yr Awdurdod Rheilffyrdd Strategol a phryderon defnyddwyr rheilffyrdd Cymru, y bydd y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn eu codi yfory?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 22

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

I noted the content of the Welsh Affairs Select Committee’s press conference and report this morning. I agree with much of it and I was pleased at its suggestion that the Assembly should have more powers, similar to those of the Scottish Executive, to influence the SRA on rail funding, nominating members to the board and so on. It was a welcome development and I applaud the Committee. I hope that it will happen soon.

Nodais gynnwys adroddiad y Pwyllgor Dethol ar Faterion Cymreig a’i gynhadledd i’r wasg y bore yma. Cytunaf â llawer ohono ac yr oeddwn yn falch o’i awgrym y dylai’r Cynulliad gael rhagor o bwerau, yn debyg i rai Gweithrediaeth yr Alban, i ddylanwadu ar gyllido’r Awdurdod Rheilffyrdd Strategol i reilffyrdd, enwebu aelodau i’r bwrdd ac yn y blaen. Yr oedd yn ddatblygiad i’w groesawu a chanmolaf y Pwyllgor. Gobeithiaf y bydd yn digwydd cyn hir.

Dirwyon Penodol yn Gosb am Ymddygiad Gwrth-Gymdeithasol

Fixed Penalty Fines for Anti Social Behaviour

Q8 Alun Pugh spoken in English p. 22

C8 Alun Pugh siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

Has the First Minister had any discussions with the Home Office regarding fixed penalty fines for anti social behaviour? (OAQ21598)

A yw Prif Weinidog Cymru wedi cael unrhyw drafodaethau gyda’r Swyddfa Gartref ynghylch rhoi dirwyon penodol yn gosb am ymddygiad gwrth-gymdeithasol? (OAQ21598)

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 23

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

This was another area that I discussed with North Wales Police last week. It believes that it has a successful pilot scheme. We believe that issuing 100 penalty notices using the new fixed penalty notices for disorder was a success. That is 100 out of the 1,738 overall penalty notices for disorder that have been issued in the four pilot areas, comprising of the West Midlands, Essex, Croydon and north Wales.

Dyma faes arall a drafodais gyda Heddlu Gogledd Cymru yr wythnos diwethaf. Mae’n credu bod ei gynllun peilot yn llwyddiannus. Credwn mai llwyddiant oedd cyhoeddi 100 rhybudd o gosb gan ddefnyddio’r rhybuddion cosb benodol newydd am anhrefn. Mae hynny’n 100 o blith y cyfanswm o 1,738 o rybuddion o gosb am anhrefn a gyhoeddwyd yn y pedair ardal beilot, sef Gorllewin Canolbarth Lloegr, Essex, Croydon a gogledd Cymru.

Alun Pugh spoken in English p. 23

Alun Pugh siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

Do you accept that fixed penalty fines allow for more efficient use of police time without compromising the right to a trial? Will you recommend to the Home Office that these trials are rolled out in all parts of Wales?

A ydych yn derbyn bod cosbi drwy ddirwyon penodol yn fodd i ddefnyddio amser yr heddlu’n fwy effeithlon heb beryglu’r hawl i fynd i dreial? A wnewch argymell i’r Swyddfa Gartref y dylid ymestyn y rhagbrofion hyn i bob rhan o Gymru?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 23

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

It may be too soon to do that because the pilot scheme only began on 2 September. The figures were only collected at the end of December. The scheme should be allowed to run for a little longer. However, the Association of Chief Police Officers and the regional police forces involved have shown an overwhelming support for the scheme so far. It does not act as an alternative to court procedure, but does free up much police time.

Gallai fod yn rhy fuan i wneud hynny gan mai ar 2 Medi y cychwynnodd y cynllun peilot. Ar ddiwedd Rhagfyr y casglwyd y ffigurau. Dylid gadael i’r cynllun redeg ychydig yn hwy. Fodd bynnag, mae Cymdeithas Prif Swyddogion yr Heddlu a’r heddluoedd rhanbarthol sy’n gysylltiedig wedi rhoi cefnogaeth ysgubol i’r cynllun hyd yn hyn. Nid yw’n ddewis yn lle gweithdrefn llys, ond mae’n rhyddhau llawer o amser yr heddlu.

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 23

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

The percentage of court fines that are paid is low. Have you discussed with the Home Office whether or not it would be possible to gather a high percentage of the fixed penalty fines? If so, how will it ensure that?

Mae’r ganran o ddirwyon llys a delir yn isel. A ydych wedi trafod â’r Swyddfa Gartref a fyddai modd casglu canran uwch o’r dirwyon penodol ar gyfer cosbi? Os felly, sut y bydd yn sicrhau hynny?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 23

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

Police in the four pilot areas have been given the freedom to implement fixed penalty notices as they see fit. They must decide with what level of intensity they should be implemented. They are not intended to replace other necessary procedures, which will occasionally involve going to court in the usual way. However, they are about freeing police time and trying to make the system acceptable and, so far, evading the fines has not been a problem. Suspicions along those lines are unfounded as 50 per cent have paid the fines without any further pressure from the police; the payment rate is 53 per cent in north Wales.

Mae’r heddluoedd yn y pedair ardal beilot wedi cael rhyddid i roi rhybuddion cosb benodol ar waith fel y gwelant orau. Rhaid iddynt benderfynu pa mor gryf y dylid eu gweithredu. Nid oes bwriad iddynt gymryd lle gweithdrefnau angenrheidiol eraill, a fydd weithiau’n golygu mynd i’r llys yn y modd arferol. Fodd bynnag, maent yn ymwneud â rhyddhau amser yr heddlu a cheisio peri i’r system fod yn dderbyniol a, hyd yn hyn, nid yw osgoi dirwyon wedi bod yn broblem. Nid oes sail i amheuon o’r fath gan fod 50 y cant wedi talu’r dirwyon heb unrhyw bwysau ychwanegol gan yr heddlu; mae’r gyfradd talu’n 53 y cant yng ngogledd Cymru.

‘Cynllun i Gymru 2001’

‘Plan for Wales 2001’

C9 Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 24

Q9 Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 24

A wnaiff Prif Weinidog Cymru ddatganiad am yr ymdrechion a wneir gan y Cabinet i sicrhau bod y targedau yn y ddogfen ‘Cynllun i Gymru 2001’ yn cael eu cyrraedd? (OAQ21617)

Will the First Minister make a statement on efforts made by the Cabinet to ensure that goals set in the ‘Plan for Wales 2001’ strategic document are achieved? (OAQ21617)

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 24

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 24

Gwnaf. Y peth pwysig a bwysleisiaf—heblaw’r ateb a roddais i Ieuan Wyn Jones yn gynharach—yw y gwariwyd arian y cronfeydd rhanbarthol Ewropeaidd ar y raddfa yr oeddem yn ei disgwyl ac yn ôl y strategaeth yr oeddem wedi ei gosod. Mae’n hollbwysig nodi ein bod wedi cyrraedd y pwynt hanner ffordd a’n bod wedi cyrraedd y targedau oll. Ni fydd arian yn cael ei ddychwelyd i Frwsel fel yr oedd rhai pobl yn ofni ac yn honni. Yr ydym bron â chyrraedd gwariant o, neu’r ymrwymiad i wario, £1 bilwin ar brosiectau, gan gynnwys arian Amcan 1, yr arian cyfatebol a chyfraniad y sector preifat.

Yes, I will. The important thing that I emphasise—apart from the answer that I gave earlier to Ieuan Wyn Jones—is that the European regional funds have been spent at the rate that we had expected and following the strategy that we had set. It is crucial to note that we have reached the halfway point and that we have achieved all the targets. No money will be returned to Brussels as some people feared and claimed. We have almost reached an expenditure of, or a commitment to spend, £1 billion on projects, including Objective 1, match funding, and the private sector contribution.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 24

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 24

Gan fod y Prif Weinidog wedi cyfeirio at Amcan 1, yr wyf yn siŵr y byddai’n cytuno y dyfarnwyd arian Amcan 1 i ardaloedd gwledig a hen gymoedd diwydiannol Cymru oherwydd tlodi cymharol yr ardaloedd hynny. Onid ydyw’n credu ei fod yn warth bod ei Lywodraeth yn methu â gwneud taliadau i ffermwyr ar amser? Cynhaliodd Plaid Cymru ddadl ar hyn ac yr oedd y Gweinidog yn gwbl hunangyfiawn wrth amddiffyn ei berfformiad, ond mae’r taliadau yn parhau i fod yn hwyr. Mae sôn yn y ‘Cynllun i Gymru’ am ehangu’r cynllun organig, ond ni wneir y taliadau organig mewn pryd. Beth fyddai pwynt ehangu’r cynllun organig os nad yw’n bwriadu sicrhau y gwneir y taliadau ar amser? Dywed y Gweinidog ei fod yn cefnogi tâl yn ôl perfformiad. Pe telid ef yn ôl ei berfformiad, byddai ar gynhaliaeth incwm erbyn hyn.

As the First Minister referred to Objective 1, I am sure that he would agree that Objective 1 funding was awarded to rural areas and the former industrial valleys of Wales because of the comparative poverty of those areas. Does he not believe that it is a disgrace that his Government cannot make payments to farmers on time? Plaid Cymru held a debate on this and the Minister was totally arrogant in defending his performance, but the payments continue to be late. The ‘Plan for Wales’ mentions expanding the organic scheme, however the organic payments are not being made on time. What would be the point of expanding the organic scheme if he does not intend ensuring that the payments are made on time? The Minister says that he supports performance-related pay. If he were paid according to his performance, he would be on income support by now.

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 24

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 24

Ar ôl y rant yna, yr unig beth y gallaf ei ddweud yw bob tro mae unrhyw gorff llywodraethol yn buddsoddi mewn system gyfrifiadurol newydd gwelir y math yma o anawsterau dros dro—tri neu chwe mis, faint bynnag o amser a gymer i gysoni’r hen system o dalu gyda’r system newydd. Yr ydym yn ei chanol hi yn awr ac mae’r holl arbenigwyr a’r gweision sifil wedi bod yn llosgi’r olew dros nos er mwyn gwneud y taliadau â llaw yn y ffordd hen ffasiwn. Unwaith y bydd y system newydd wedi’i sefydlu dylai’r cyfrifiadur olygu ein bod o flaen Lloegr, yr Alban a Gogledd Iwerddon o ran gwneud y taliadau. Wedyn, pan fyddant yn buddsoddi mewn cyfrifiaduron newydd, byddant hefyd yn cael yr un anhawster dros dro. Mae’n siŵr o ddigwydd—dyna natur bywyd.

After that rant, all I can say is that every time any government body invests in a new computer system these kinds of glitches are experienced temporarily—for three to six months, however long it takes to reconcile the old payment system with the new. We are currently in the middle of it and all the experts and civil servants have been burning the midnight oil in order to make the payments manually in the old-fashioned way. Once the new system is established the computer should mean that we would be ahead of England, Scotland and Northern Ireland in terms of making the payments. Then, when they invest in new computers, they will also encounter the same temporary difficulties. It is bound to happen—that is life.

Unedau Arweiniad Plant

Child Guidance Units

Q10 David Ian Jones spoken in English p. 25

C10 David Ian Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25

Would the First Minister make a statement on child guidance units funded by the NHS in Wales? (OAQ21599)

A wnaiff Prif Weinidog Cymru ddatganiad am yr unedau arweiniad plant a ariennir gan y GIG yng Nghymru? (OAQ21599)

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 25

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25

Child and adolescent mental health teams have replaced child guidance clinics. Mental health, as I mentioned earlier, is one of our highest priorities, alongside cardiac and cancer care. I think that we are alone in the United Kingdom in making mental health such a high priority for the health service. In September 2001 we launched the first ever all-Wales strategy for child and adolescent mental health under the title ‘Everybody’s Business’. As recommended in that strategy, an implementation group has been established to determine the provision of a cohesive and high-quality service of proven effectiveness for young people with these problems across Wales.

Mae timau iechyd meddwl plant a phobl ifanc wedi cymryd lle clinigau arweiniad plant. Iechyd meddwl, fel y dywedais yn gynharach, yw un o’n blaenoriaethau pennaf, ar y cyd â gofal cardïaidd a gofal canser. Credaf mai ni yw’r unig rai yn y Deyrnas Unedig i roi blaenoriaeth mor uchel yn y gwasanaeth iechyd i iechyd meddwl. Ym Medi 2001 gwnaethom lansio’r strategaeth gyntaf erioed i Gymru gyfan ar gyfer iechyd meddwl plant a phobl ifanc ac iddi’r enw ‘Busnes Pawb’. Fel yr argymhellwyd yn y strategaeth honno, sefydlwyd grŵp gweithredu i bennu’r ddarpariaeth o wasanaeth cydlynol o ansawdd da o effeithiolrwydd profedig ar gyfer y bobl ifanc â’r problemau hyn ledled Cymru.

David Ian Jones spoken in English p. 25

David Ian Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25

I am sure that you will agree that, in the case of youngsters with such problems, timely intervention is needed. Therefore, do you share my concern that, in some cases, teams are taking up to 18 months to respond to a doctor’s request for them to deal with certain individual children? As I understand it, this is due to financial constraints. Are you satisfied that finances are available to ensure that these teams work satisfactorily?

Yr wyf yn siŵr y cytunwch bod angen ymyrryd yn amserol yn achos pobl ifanc â phroblemau o’r fath. Gan hynny, a ydych yn rhannu fy mhryder bod timau, mewn ambell achos, yn cymryd hyd at 18 mis i ymateb i gais gan feddyg iddynt ddelio â rhai plant unigol? Hyd a ddeallaf, mae hynny oherwydd cyfyngiadau ariannol. A ydych yn fodlon bod digon o arian ar gael i sicrhau bod y timau hyn yn gweithio’n foddhaol?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 25

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25

I ask that you write to me, drawing my attention to any areas where the wait is that long, because it is regrettable. Given the way that serious mental health problems among young people and adolescents can play hell, not only with the development of the children themselves, but also with the family and, sometimes, with the neighbourhood, I would be grateful to know about problems of that nature. Certainly, by giving the issue such a high priority, alongside cancer and cardiac care, we have set out our stall because mental health, which includes adolescent and child mental health, is important. It can be damaging if proper and good diagnosis and treatment is not provided for the families and children concerned.

Gofynnaf ichi ysgrifennu ataf, i dynnu fy sylw at unrhyw ardaloedd lle y mae’r aros cyn hwyed â hynny, gan ei fod yn destun gofid. O ystyried sut y mae problemau iechyd meddwl difrifol ymysg pobl ifanc yn gallu creu helynt, nid yn unig yn natblygiad y plant eu hunain, ond hefyd yn y teulu ac, weithiau, yn y gymdogaeth, byddwn yn ddiolchgar o gael gwybod am broblemau o’r fath. Yn sicr, drwy roi blaenoriaeth mor uchel i’r mater hwn, ar y cyd â gofal canser a gofal cardïaidd, yr ydym wedi datgan ein safbwynt gan fod iechyd meddwl, sy’n cynnwys iechyd meddwl plant a phobl ifanc, yn bwysig. Gall fod yn niweidiol os na ddarperir diagnosis a thriniaeth dda a phriodol ar gyfer y teuluoedd a’r plant dan sylw.

Pwynt o Drefn

Point of Order

Dafydd Wigley siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 26

Dafydd Wigley spoken in Welsh p. 26

Pwynt o drefn. Codaf y pwynt hwn o drefn o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.3(iv). Mae’n ymwneud ag ymateb, neu ddiffyg ymateb, a gefais gan y Prif Weinidog. Pan ofynnais gwestiwn penodol ynglŷn â pham a pha bryd yr oedd am ymweld â Chyngor Gwynedd, cefais ateb nad oedd a wnelo o gwbl â’m cwestiwn. Efallai yn deillio o hynny, ac yn sgîl ei sylwadau diweddarach, cododd mater pwysicach fyth. Yn ei ateb, rhoddodd y Prif Weinidog ar ddeall imi fod ei ymweliad â’r heddlu yng Nghaernarfon yn un preifat—aeth yno gyda’i ymgynghorwyr gwleidyddol ac nid yn rhinwedd ei swydd fel Prif Weinidog. Os felly, sut y gallai ateb cyd-Aelodau ei blaid ar sail y wybodaeth a ddeilliodd o’r cyfarfod hwnnw? Rhoddodd ar ddeall i’r heddlu mai dibenion pleidiol oedd i’w ymweliad, ac nid oedd yno yn sgîl ei rôl fel Prif Weinidog—mae hynny’n ddealladwy. Yn y cyfnod rhwng nawr â’r etholiad mae’n bwysig gwybod beth yw’r canllawiau o ran pryd fydd y Prif Weinidog yn gweithredu fel Prif Weinidog Cymru, a phryd y bydd yn gweithredu fel arweinydd ei blaid, sy’n ddigon teg a rhesymol. Fodd bynnag, mae gennym yr hawl i wybod y gwahaniaeth rhwng y ddau. Hoffwn eich arweiniad ar hynny.

Point of order. I raise this point of order under Standing Order No. 6.3 (iv). It is to do with the reply, or the lack of a reply, that I received from the First Minister. When I asked a specific question as to why and when he was visiting Gwynedd Council, the response I was given bore no relation to the question. Perhaps arising from that, and following his later comments, an even more important matter arose. In his reply, the First Minister gave the understanding that his visit to the police in Caernarfon was a private one, he went there with his political advisers, and not in his capacity as First Minister. If so, how could he then respond to party colleagues on the basis of the information given at that meeting? He made it clear to the police that he was there for party-political purposes and not in his role as First Minister—that is understandable. During the period between now and the election, it is important to know what the guidelines are on when the First Minister is on a visit as First Minister of Wales and when he is there as the leader of his party, which is fair and reasonable. However, we have the right to know the difference between the two. I would be grateful for your guidance on this matter.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 26

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 26

Clywodd y Prif Weinidog eich pwynt o drefn. Mae hwn yn fater ar gyfer y Cod i’r Gweinidogion, sy’n cynnwys ymddygiad y Prif Weinidog. Gobeithiaf y bydd pob Gweinidog yn dangos cwrteisi drwy roi gwybod i Aelodau’r Cynulliad am eu hymweliadau ac am natur yr ymweliadau hynny.

The First Minister has heard your point of order. This is a matter for the Ministerial Code, which includes the conduct of the First Minister. I hope that all Ministers will be courteous and notify Assembly Members of their visits and of the nature of those visits.

Dafydd Wigley siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 27

Dafydd Wigley spoken in Welsh p. 27

Ymhellach i’r pwynt hwnnw o drefn, ni chefais rybudd o’r ymweliad o gwbl. Dim ond drwy’r drws cefn y deuthum i wybod bod y Prif Weinidog ar ymweliad answyddogol. Mae hynny’n ychwanegu at eich pwynt.

Further to that point of order, I was not notified of the visit. I only happened to find out through the back door that the First Minister was on an unofficial visit. That adds to your point.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 27

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 27

Nid yw hwnnw’n fater i mi. Yn ystod y misoedd nesaf, anogaf y cwrteisi a’r dyngarwch mwyaf posibl yn ein hymwneud â’n gilydd fel Aelodau o’r Cynulliad.

That is not a matter for me. I urge Members, over the next months, to show the utmost courtesy and humanity in their dealings with each other.

Datganiad Busnes

Business Statement

Carwyn Jones The Business Minister spoken in English p. 27

Carwyn Jones Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 27

There is one change to this week’s business: the motion to approve the regulatory reform Order scheduled for tomorrow has been withdrawn and will be brought forward at a later date.

Mae un newid i fusnes yr wythnos hon: tynnwyd yn ôl y cynnig i gymeradwyo’r Gorchymyn diwygio rheoliadol a amserlennwyd ar gyfer yfory a deuir ag ef gerbron ar ddyddiad diweddarach.

As for the next three weeks of business, following the representations I received, I have moved the minority party debate scheduled for next week to a date later in the session. To replace that debate, I have moved the debate on ‘Farming for the Future’ from Wednesday 22 January to Tuesday 21 January, and the no-named day motion tabled on 10 December on the banning of smoking in public places will replace it. I have also tabled a motion to propose changes to the Labour representation on the Legislation Committee, which will take place on Tuesday 21 January. The draft statement can be found on the Chamberweb under supporting documents.

O ran busnes y tair wythnos nesaf, yn sgîl y sylwadau a dderbyniais, yr wyf wedi symud y ddadl plaid leiafrifol a amserlennwyd ar gyfer yr wythnos nesaf i ddyddiad diweddarach yn y sesiwn. I gymryd lle’r ddadl honno, yr wyf wedi symud y ddadl ar ‘Ffermio i’r Dyfodol’ o ddydd Mercher 22 Ionawr i ddydd Mawrth 21 Ionawr, a bydd y cynnig heb ddyddiad trafod a gyflwynwyd ar 10 Rhagfyr ar wahardd ysmygu mewn mannau cyhoeddus yn cymryd ei lle. Yr wyf hefyd wedi cyflwyno cynnig i gynnig newidiadau i gynrychiolaeth Llafur ar y Pwyllgor Deddfau, a gynhelir ar ddydd Mawrth 21 Ionawr. Gellir gweld y datganiad drafft ar we’r Siambr o dan ddogfennau ategol.

Following the Business Committee meeting this morning, the Deputy Presiding Officer determined under Standing Order No. 22.5 that the following items of legislation need not be referred to a Subject Committee for extended consideration. These are: The Fostering Services (Wales) Regulations 2003; the Care Standards Act 2000 (Commencement No. 10) and Transitional Provisions (Wales) Order 2003; The Care Standards Act 2000 (Commencment No. 11) (Wales) Order 2003, and the National Health Service (Optical Charges and Payments) (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2003.

Ar ôl cyfarfod y Pwyllgor Busnes y bore yma, penderfynodd y Dirprwy Lywydd o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 22.5 nad oes angen cyfeirio’r eitemau deddfwriaeth a ganlyn i Bwyllgor Pwnc i’w hystyried yn helaethach. Y rhain yw: Rheoliadau Gwasanaethau Maethu (Cymru) 2003; Gorchymyn Deddf Safonau Gofal 2000 (Cychwyn Rhif 10) a Darpariaethau Trosiannol (Cymru) 2003; Gorchymyn Deddf Safonau Gofal 2000 (Cychwyn Rhif 11) (Cymru) 2003, a Rheoliadau’r Gwasanaeth Iechyd Gwladol (Ffioedd a Thaliadau Optegol) (Diwygio) (Cymru) 2003.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 28

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 28

Ymddengys nad oes unrhyw wrthwynebiadau i’r datganiad. A oes sylwadau ar y datganiad?

It appears that there are no objections to the statement. Are there any comments on the statement?

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in English p. 28

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 28

First, I refer the Business Minister to the debate on regulations governing genetically modified crops on 18 December. He will now know that the summary of the final monitoring report on the studies of the field scale releases of GM crops miraculously materialised on the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs website on 24 December. If we had seen that report before the debate on 18 December, the conclusions would be different, as was seen in the Scottish Parliament, where a committee report states:

Yn gyntaf, cyfeiriaf y Trefnydd at y ddadl ar reoliadau sy’n llywodraethu cnydau a addaswyd yn enetig ar 18 Rhagfyr. Gŵyr fod y crynodeb o’r adroddiad terfynol ar fonitro’r astudiaethau o gnydau a addaswyd yn enetig a ryddhawyd ar ffermydd wedi ymddangos yn wyrthiol ar wefan Adran yr Amgylchedd, Bwyd a Materion Gwledig ar 24 Rhagfyr. Pe baem wedi gweld yr adroddiad hwnnw cyn y ddadl ar 18 Rhagfyr, buasai’r casgliadau’n wahanol, fel y gwelwyd yn Senedd yr Alban lle y dywed adroddiad pwyllgor:

‘Therefore, we believe that allowing GM crop trials to continue does contravene the precautionary principle, even as that principle is interpreted by the Scottish Executive.’

Gan hynny, credwn fod caniatáu profion ar gnydau a addaswyd yn enetig yn groes i’r egwyddor ragofalus, hyd yn oed fel y’i dehonglir gan Weithrediaeth yr Alban.

It has changed its view on GM crops having seen that report. We were not made aware of that particular report by the Minister for Rural Development and Wales Abroad, who tells me that he was not even aware of it. That seems a strange admission by someone who stated when he was leader of an opposition party that the issue of GM crops was important for the Assembly. He is no longer bothered to read reports on the issue. Will the Business Minister now schedule another debate on this issue so that we can discuss it in light of this important report, which clearly states that there is cross-contamination from GM crops? The Minister seems to believe that the report supports the Government’s policy. It would be useful if he read the report and then he would find that it—

Mae’r Senedd wedi newid ei barn am gnydau a addaswyd yn enetig ar ôl gweld yr adroddiad hwnnw. Ni roddwyd gwybod inni am yr adroddiad arbennig hwnnw gan y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Gwledig a Chymru Dramor, a ddywed wrthyf na wyddai amdano hyd yn oed. Mae hynny’n ymddangos yn gyfaddefiad rhyfedd gan rywun a ddywedodd, pan oedd yn arweinydd ar wrthblaid, fod mater cnydau a addaswyd yn enetig yn bwysig i’r Cynulliad. Nid yw bellach yn trafferthu darllen adroddiadau ar y mater. A wnaiff y Trefnydd amserlennu dadl arall ar y mater hwn yn awr fel y gallwn ei drafod yng ngoleuni’r adroddiad pwysig hwn, sy’n datgan yn eglur fod croesheintio oddi wrth gnydau a addaswyd yn enetig? Ymddengys fod y Gweinidog yn credu bod yr adroddiad yn ategu polisi’r Llywodraeth. Byddai’n fuddiol pe bai’n darllen yr adroddiad a châi wedyn ei fod—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 29

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 29

Order. This is not an opportunity for Members to make speeches on substantive issues: it is an opportunity to raise matters pertinent to business, as I am sure the acting Business Minister well knows.

Trefn. Nid cyfle i Aelodau wneud areithiau ar faterion o bwys yw hwn: mae’n gyfle i godi materion sy’n gysylltiedig â busnes, fel y gŵyr y Trefnydd gweithredol yn iawn, yr wyf yn siŵr.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in English p. 29

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 29

I ask for another debate on that issue because important information was kept from us.

Gofynnaf am ddadl arall ar y mater hwnnw am fod gwybodaeth bwysig wedi’i chadw oddi wrthym.

On the Auditor General for Wales’s report on Education and Learning Wales—we accept that it must be discussed in the Audit Committee meeting next week—however, given the policy implications, will the Minister ensure that the Education and Lifelong Learning Committee also has an opportunity to discuss that report in detail and that it is discussed in Plenary as soon as possible following the Audit Committee meeting?

Ynghylch adroddiad Archwilydd Cyffredinol Cymru ar Dysgu ac Addysgu Cymru—yr ydym yn derbyn bod rhaid ei drafod yng nghyfarfod y Pwyllgor Archwilio yr wythnos nesaf—fodd bynnag, yng ngolwg y goblygiadau i bolisi, a wnaiff y Gweinidog sicrhau bod y Pwyllgor Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes hefyd yn cael cyfle i drafod yr adroddiad hwnnw’n fanwl ac y caiff ei drafod yn y Cyfarfod Llawn cyn gynted ag y bo modd ar ôl cyfarfod y Pwyllgor Archwilio?

Peter Rogers spoken in English p. 29

Peter Rogers siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 29

Will the Minister for Rural Development and Wales Abroad give a statement on the ongoing crisis in the agriculture industry regarding the processing of support payments? It is obvious from the First Minister’s replies to questions that Rhodri Glyn Thomas and I have asked today that he is not aware that the problem regarding support payments is not governed by the computer system failure. The Minister for Rural Development and Wales Abroad gave a statement in the Chamber before Christmas, in which he gave details of sheep annual premium payments—around 4,000 a day were being made at that stage. That would have meant that, in the meantime, the payments would have been cleared up and the problems with the computer system would be behind us. In that statement, he said that a large proportion of supplement payments for farmers in less favoured areas would start being processed in the first week of December. These are a vital part of the SAPS payment. Eighty per cent of Welsh farmers are claiming them and farmers in England, Ireland and Scotland have already received them. In a statement given in early January, it is claimed that around 12 per cent of those supplements had been paid. They are vital to the income of sheep farmers. The computer failure has not caused the problem with those payments but rather the verification of the integrated administration and control system forms, which were submitted during the spring of 2002. It appears that the existing problem, which the First Minister and the Minister for Rural Development and Wales Abroad—

A wnaiff y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Gwledig a Chymru Dramor roi datganiad am yr argyfwng sy’n dal i fodoli yn y diwydiant amaeth o ran prosesu cymorthdaliadau? Mae’n amlwg yn ôl atebion y Prif Weinidog i gwestiynau a ofynnwyd gan Rhodri Glyn Thomas a minnau heddiw ei fod yn anymwybodol nad methiant y system gyfrifiadurol sy’n achosi’r broblem ynghylch cymorthdaliadau. Cyflwynodd y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Gwledig a Chymru Dramor ddatganiad yn y Siambr cyn y Nadolig gan roi manylion am daliadau premiwm blynyddol defaid—gwneid tua 4,000 y diwrnod bryd hynny. Golygai hynny y byddai’r taliadau wedi’u clirio yn y cyfamser ac y byddai’r problemau gyda’r system gyfrifiadurol y tu ôl i ni. Yn y datganiad hwnnw, dywedodd y byddid yn dechrau prosesu cyfran fawr o’r taliadau atodol i ffermwyr mewn ardaloedd llai ffafriol yn wythnos gyntaf Rhagfyr. Mae’r rhain yn rhan hanfodol o’r taliad cynllun premiwm blynyddol defaid. Mae 80 y cant o ffermwyr Cymru’n eu hawlio ac mae ffermwyr yn Lloegr, Iwerddon a’r Alban wedi’u derbyn eisoes. Yn y datganiad a roddwyd ddechrau Ionawr, honnwyd bod tua 12 y cant o’r taliadau atodol hynny wedi’u talu. Maent yn hollbwysig i incwm ffermwyr defaid. Nid y methiant cyfrifiadurol a achosodd y broblem gyda’r taliadau hynny ond yn hytrach dilysu ffurflenni’r system weinyddu a rheoli integredig, a gyflwynwyd yn ystod gwanwyn 2002. Ymddengys fod y broblem bresennol, y mae’r Prif Weinidog a’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Gwledig a Chymru Dramor—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 30

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 30

Order. The strictures that I applied to Rhodri Glyn Thomas’s contribution also apply to yours. Concentrate on the business issues arising from the question that you raised.

Trefn. Mae fy nghyfyniadau ar gyfraniad Rhodri Glyn Thomas yn berthnasol i’ch cyfraniad chithau hefyd. Canolbwyntiwch ar y materion busnes sy’n codi o’r cwestiwn y bu ichi ei godi.

Peter Rogers spoken in English p. 30

Peter Rogers siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 30

There is concern regarding the computer system, which is not working. However, will the Minister make a statement on the other ongoing problems, which could be caused by staffing levels and low morale because of these problems? We need to be given a full statement on the issue, and a full, independent inquiry into the running of that system should perhaps be held. Otherwise, Welsh agriculture will be brought to its knees.

Mae pryder ynghylch y system gyfrifiadurol, nad yw’n gweithio. Fodd bynnag, a wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am y problemau cyfredol eraill, a allai fod wedi’u hachosi gan lefelau staffio a digalondid oherwydd y problemau hyn? Mae arnom angen datganiad llawn ar y mater ac efallai y dylid cynnal ymchwiliad llawn, annibynnol i’r dull o redeg y system honno. Fel arall, bydd amaethyddiaeth yng Nghymru ar ei gliniau.

Carwyn Jones The Business Minister spoken in English p. 30

Carwyn Jones Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 30

On Rhodri Glyn Thomas’s point, he alleges that documents were kept from the Chamber and suggests that the Minister for Rural Development and Wales Abroad somehow knew of matters which the rest of the Assembly did not. The best way to find out about that is to ask him, rather than to have a debate on the issue. If you want to know whether someone knew something or not, why not ask the person, rather than debate the question? I do not see the point of holding a debate on that, when the matter can be covered by the use of Assembly questions.

Ynghylch pwynt Rhodri Glyn Thomas, mae’n honni bod dogfennau wedi’u cadw oddi wrth y Siambr ac yn awgrymu bod y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Gwledig a Chymru Dramor yn gwybod rywsut am faterion nad oeddent yn hysbys i weddill y Cynulliad. Y ffordd orau i gael gwybod am hynny yw gofyn iddo, yn hytrach na chael dadl ar y mater. Os ydych am wybod a oedd rhywun yn gwybod rhywbeth ai peidio, beth am ofyn iddo, yn hytrach na chael dadl ar y cwestiwn? Ni welaf ddiben cynnal dadl ar hynny, pan fo modd ymdrin â’r mater drwy ddefnyddio cwestiynau’r Cynulliad.

On ELWa, the matter must run its course in the Audit Committee, as has been said. I am informed that the Committee will discuss the policy implications of the report in March. Therefore, the Committee will have an opportunity to consider that. In terms of SAPS, LFA and farming payments, such a large bundle of issues have been raised that I think they would be best dealt with in Committee, where there is ample time to investigate and discuss the issues, rather than by means of a statement in Plenary, where time is more restricted and there is less opportunity for Members to ask questions. I know, from personal experience, that the Minister’s report to the Agriculture and Rural Development Committee can last for two hours or more. That is ample time to investigate these matters fully. Therefore, a statement on that matter is not proposed at the moment.

Ynghylch ELWa, rhaid i’r mater ddilyn ei hynt yn y Pwyllgor Archwilio, fel y dywedwyd. Fe’m hysbyswyd y bydd y Pwyllgor yn trafod goblygiadau polisi yr adroddiad ym Mawrth. Gan hynny, caiff y Pwyllgor gyfle i ystyried hynny. Ynghylch y cynllun premiwm blynyddol defaid, ardaloedd llai ffafriol a thaliadau ffermio, codwyd cymaint o faterion fel y credaf mai gwell fyddai eu trafod yn y Pwyllgor, lle y mae digon o amser i ymchwilio a thrafod y materion, yn hytrach na thrwy ddatganiad yn y Cyfarfod Llawn, lle y mae’r amser yn fwy prin a lle y mae llai o gyfle i Aelodau ofyn cwestiynau. Gwn, o brofiad personol, y gall adroddiad y Gweinidog i’r Pwyllgor Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig barhau am ddwy awr neu fwy. Mae hynny’n ddigon o amser i ymchwilio’n llawn i’r materion hyn. Felly, ni chynigir datganiad ar y mater hwnnw ar hyn o bryd.

Peter Rogers spoken in English p. 31

Peter Rogers siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 31

Point of order. This matter will now be deflected back to the Agriculture and Rural Development Committee. However, the greatest concern is that the First Minister does not understand the ongoing serious problems. That is why I ask him to come before Plenary.

Pwynt o drefn. Troir y mater hwn yn ôl i’r Pwyllgor Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig yn awr. Fodd bynnag, y pryder mwyaf yw nad yw’r Prif Weinidog yn deall y problemau difrifol cyfredol. Dyna pam yr wyf yn gofyn iddo ddod gerbron y Cyfarfod Llawn.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 31

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 31

Order. Members have regular opportunities to table questions to the First Minister. It is for Members and party groups to decide what their priorities are when tabling questions and when devising supplementary questions. This matter is a priority for many of us in agricultural areas. As Members, we must then decide on our priorities. It is open to your group, Peter, and to others here, to raise this issue, as has been done today. On holding a debate in Plenary, party groups have access to a certain amount of debating time, and it is for them to use that time according to their priorities. That is all I can say on that. I have allowed every possible opportunity for this issue to be aired. Indeed, some Members might feel I have allowed too many opportunities. I cannot win, can I?

Trefn. Mae Aelodau’n cael cyfleoedd rheolaidd i gyflwyno cwestiynau i’r Prif Weinidog. Mater i Aelodau a grwpiau plaid yw penderfynu beth yw eu blaenoriaethau wrth gyflwyno cwestiynau ac wrth lunio cwestiynau atodol. Mae’r mater hwn yn flaenoriaeth gan lawer ohonom mewn ardaloedd amaethyddol. Fel Aelodau, rhaid inni benderfynu wedyn ar ein blaenoriaethau. Mae’ch grŵp chi, Peter, ac eraill sydd yma, yn rhydd i godi’r mater hwn, fel y gwnaed heddiw. Ynghylch cynnal dadl yn y Cyfarfod Llawn, mae grwpiau plaid yn cael rhywfaint o amser dadlau, a mater iddynt hwy yw defnyddio’r amser hwnnw’n unol â’u blaenoriaethau. Dyna’r cwbl y gallaf ei ddweud am hynny. Yr wyf wedi caniatáu pob cyfle posibl i wyntyllu’r mater hwn. Yn wir, gallai rhai Aelodau deimlo fy mod wedi caniatáu gormod o gyfleoedd. Nid oes modd ennill, nac oes?

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in English p. 31

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 31

Point of order.

Pwynt o drefn.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 31

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 31

I hope that it is a point of order.

Gobeithiaf mai pwynt o drefn ydyw.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in English p. 31

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 31

It certainly is. I requested a debate on the GM issue, because had we had sight of the DEFRA report before the debate on 18 December, the direction of that debate would have been different, and possibly its result, as was the case in the Scottish Parliament. I am not asking whether Mike German knew about the report; he has clearly said that he did not. What I want is that debate—

Ydyw’n sicr. Gofynnais am ddadl ar fater addasu genetig, oherwydd pe baem wedi gweld adroddiad Adran yr Amgylchedd, Bwyd a Materion Gwledig cyn y ddadl ar 18 Rhagfyr, buasai cyfeiriad y ddadl honno’n wahanol, a’i chanlyniad o bosibl, fel yr oedd yn Senedd yr Alban. Nid wyf yn gofyn a oedd Mike German yn gwybod am yr adroddiad; dywedodd yn eglur nad ydoedd. Yr hyn yr wyf am ei gael yw’r ddadl honno—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 32

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 32

Order. That is not a point of order, but a repeat of your comment on the business statement. I rule that the Business Minister has had enough now.

Trefn. Nid pwynt o drefn yw hwnnw, ond ailadroddiad o’ch sylw am y datganiad busnes. Dyfarnaf fod y Trefnydd wedi cael digon yn awr.

Derbyniwyd y datganiad busnes.

Business statement adopted.

Pwynt o Drefn

Point of Order

Geraint Davies spoken in English p. 32

Geraint Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 32

Point of order. I raise this in relation to what Dafydd Wigley mentioned earlier as regards notifying Members when Ministers visit their constituencies. The First Minister visited my constituency last week, and I am sorry to inform you that neither the regional Members nor I were informed of that visit. I understand that the First Minister himself is responsible for enforcing the Ministerial Code. How are we to ensure that the enforcer himself keeps in line?

Pwynt o drefn. Codaf hyn mewn cysylltiad â’r hyn a ddywedodd Dafydd Wigley yn gynharach ynghylch hysbysu Aelodau pan fo Gweinidogion yn ymweld â’u hetholaethau. Ymwelodd y Prif Weinidog â’m hetholaeth i yr wythnos diwethaf, ac mae’n ddrwg gennyf ddweud na hysbyswyd yr Aelodau rhanbarthol na minnau am yr ymweliad hwnnw. Deallaf mai’r Prif Weinidog ei hun sy’n gyfrifol am orfodi’r Cod i’r Gweinidogion. Sut yr ydym i sicrhau bod y gorfodwr ei hun yn cydymffurfio?

David Davies spoken in English p. 32

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 32

Further to that point of order, I am informed that the First Minister also visited my constituency without informing anyone and cavorted around the marketplace with the Labour Party candidate. I find that hard to believe; I am sure that there must be some mistake. Nevertheless, can you clarify whether Ministers are allowed to go traipsing around the place with Assembly candidates without informing the sitting Member?

Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwnnw, fe’m hysbyswyd bod y Prif Weinidog wedi ymweld â’m hetholaeth innau heb hysbysu neb ac wedi prancio o gwmpas y farchnad gydag ymgeisydd y Blaid Lafur. Fe’i caf yn anodd credu hynny; rhaid bod rhyw gamgymeriad. Er hynny, a allwch egluro a ganiateir i Weinidogion ymlwybro o le i le gydag ymgeiswyr i’r Cynulliad heb hysbysu’r Aelod presennol?

Helen Mary Jones spoken in English p. 32

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 32

Further to that point of order, I had the pleasure of seeing the First Minister walk past the window of my office on, I suspect, the same day. That was the first I knew that he was going to be in Llanelli. I regret that I was unable to prepare a cup of tea for him. I also felt that it was confusing that all reports in the local press referred not to the leader of the Labour Party but to the First Minister. I echo Geraint’s concern about how we are to ensure that the code is observed, if the person who is supposed to be leading on that is not keeping to it.

Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwnnw, cefais y pleser o weld y Prif Weinidog yn cerdded heibio i ffenestr fy swyddfa a hynny ar yr un diwrnod, yr wyf yn amau. Dyna pryd y cefais wybod gyntaf y byddai yn Llanelli. Mae’n flin gennyf nad oeddwn yn gallu gwneud cwpanaid o de iddo. Teimlwn hefyd fod dryswch am fod yr holl adroddiadau yn y wasg leol yn cyfeirio at y Prif Weinidog yn hytrach nag arweinydd y Blaid Lafur. Ategaf bryder Geraint am sut y gallwn sicrhau y dilynir y cod, os nad yw’r un sydd i fod yn arwain ar hynny yn dal ato.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in English p. 33

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 33

Further to that point of order—

Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwnnw—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Order spoken in English p. 33

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 33

Order. The First Minister wishes to respond.

Trefn. Mae’r Prif Weinidog yn dymuno ymateb.

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 33

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 33

To put Members’ minds at rest, it has always been my view that, as we are all engaged in politics, that does not wholly exclude me, as First Minister, from also undertaking visits as the leader of my party. Members should ask themselves whether Members of Parliament who represent the same political parties as they do would make the same complaint about the Prime Minister visiting a constituency and putting an emphasis on party politics from time to time, provided that official transport is not used and that he is not accompanied by a civil servant. That was the case with my visits throughout last week.

Er mwyn tawelu meddwl Aelodau, fy marn i erioed yw, gan fod pawb ohonom yn ymwneud â gwleidyddiaeth, nad yw hynny’n fy ngwahardd i’n llwyr, fel Prif Weinidog Cymru, rhag ymgymryd ag ymweliadau fel arweinydd fy mhlaid hefyd. Dylai Aelodau ofyn iddynt eu hun a fyddai Aelodau Seneddol sy’n cynrychioli’r un pleidiau gwleidyddol â hwy’n gwneud yr un gŵyn pe bai’r Prif Weinidog yn ymweld ag etholaeth ac yn rhoi pwyslais ar wleidyddiaeth plaid o bryd i’w gilydd, ar yr amod na ddefnyddir trafnidiaeth swyddogol ac nad oes gwas sifil gydag ef. Felly yr oedd yn achos fy ymweliadau i drwy gydol yr wythnos diwethaf.

Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in English p. 33

Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 33

Further to that point of order, an important principle is at stake here. The First Minister now says that the visits were undertaken for party political purposes and not in relation to his responsibilities as First Minister, and that that was why he did not inform Members about them. However, we come back to the crucial point made by Dafydd Wigley: when the First Minister was responding to a question from Alun Pugh, he clearly responded as First Minister. There is confusion about his role in this regard. Would it therefore not be appropriate, Presiding Officer, to ask the First Minister to review the Ministeral Code and, if necessary, to revise it so that the circumstances he described are covered and clear to all Members?

Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwnnw, mae egwyddor bwysig yn y fantol yma. Dywed y Prif Weinidog yn awr iddo gynnal yr ymweliadau at ddibenion gwleidyddol pleidiol ac nid mewn cysylltiad â’i gyfrifoldebau fel Prif Weinidog, ac mai dyna pam na hysbysodd Aelodau amdanynt. Fodd bynnag, deuwn yn ôl at bwynt hollbwysig Dafydd Wigley: pan oedd y Prif Weinidog yn ymateb i gwestiwn gan Alun Pugh, mae’n amlwg iddo ymateb fel y Prif Weinidog. Mae dryswch ynghylch ei rôl yn hyn o beth. Onid priodol felly, Lywydd, fyddai gofyn i’r Prif Weinidog adolygu’r Cod i’r Gweinidogion ac, os oes angen, ei ddiwygio fel ei fod yn ymdrin â’r amgylchiadau a ddisgrifiodd a’u bod yn glir i’r holl Aelodau?

David Davies spoken in English p. 33

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 33

Further to this point of order, we have been assured that ministerial cars are not being used on these visits. May I ask who is writing the press releases and whether or not they refer to the First Minister as the First Minister or as the leader of the Labour Party in Wales?

Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwn, fe’n sicrhawyd na ddefnyddir ceir gweinidogol ar yr ymweliadau hyn. A gaf ofyn pwy sy’n ysgrifennu’r datganiadau i’r wasg ac a ydynt yn cyfeirio at y Prif Weinidog fel y Prif Weinidog neu fel arweinydd y Blaid Lafur yng Nghymru?

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 33

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 33

Order. The First Minister is also the leader of the Labour Party. Clearly, when the First Minister travels about the country—and I was pleased that he was able to visit Llanrwst and Blaenau Ffestiniog last week—he does so in two capacities. What is important is that both he and we understand in which capacity he is operating at any given time. It seems to me that there is no confusion about last week, which was a fine political campaigning week. As I understand it, the visits were not undertaken in the capacity of First Minister. Clearly, the common courtesies are that, when the Minister visits constituencies as the First Minister, constituency and regional Assembly Members are informed of his visits. When the First Minister visits constituencies in his capacity as a party leader, we should not be overly sensitive.

Trefn. Mae’r Prif Weinidog hefyd yn arweinydd y Blaid Lafur. Wrth gwrs, pan yw’r Prif Weinidog yn teithio o gwmpas y wlad—ac yr oeddwn yn falch ei fod wedi gallu ymweld â Llanrwst a Blaenau Ffestiniog yr wythnos diwethaf—gwnaiff hynny yn rhinwedd dwy swydd. Yr hyn sy’n bwysig yw ei fod ef a’n bod ni’n deall yn rhinwedd pa swydd y mae’n gweithredu ar unrhyw adeg benodol. Ymddengys i mi nad oes dryswch ynghylch yr wythnos diwethaf, a oedd yn wythnos dda o ymgyrchu gwleidyddol. Hyd a ddeallaf, nid ymgymerwyd â’r ymweliadau yn rhinwedd swydd y Prif Weinidog. Wrth gwrs, y cwrteisi arferol yw, pan fo’r Gweinidog yn ymweld ag etholaethau fel y Prif Weinidog, yr hysbysir yr Aelodau Cynulliad etholaethol a rhanbarthol am ei ymweliadau. Pan fo’r Prif Weinidog yn ymweld ag etholaethau yn rhinwedd ei swydd fel arweinydd plaid, ni ddylem fod yn orsensitif.

Cymeradwyo Gorchymyn Tai (Hawl i Gaffael a Hawl i Brynu) (Ardaloedd Gwledig Dynodedig a Rhanbarthau Dynodedig) (Cymru) 2003

Approval of the Housing (Right to Acquire and Right to Buy) (Designated Rural Areas and Designated Regions) (Wales) Order 2003

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 34

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 34

I have selected amendment 1 to motion NDM1287 in the name of William Graham.

Yr wyf wedi dethol gwelliant 1 i gynnig NDM1287 yn enw William Graham.

Edwina Hart The Finance Minister spoken in English p. 34

Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog Cyllid siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 34

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Edwina Hart The Finance Minister (continued) spoken in English p. 34

Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog Cyllid (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 34

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Edwina Hart The Finance Minister (continued) spoken in English p. 35

Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog Cyllid (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 35

This Order proposes extending the number of rural areas where restrictions can apply to sales under the right to acquire and resales of former right-to-buy properties to help local people in accessing affordable housing. At present, the rural areas designated under the two schemes are different and the Assembly Government has consulted widely about aligning and extending them. We recognise concerns about the Human Rights Act 1998, but we have to balance the desire of tenants to buy their own homes with the need for more affordable housing. The Order does not therefore remove the right to acquire from the tenants of any property where it currently exists. However, new tenants in the revised areas will not be able to exercise the right to acquire, although they may be able to purchase on homebuy terms.

Mae’r Gorchymyn hwn yn cynnig ychwanegu at y nifer o ardaloedd gwledig lle y gellir cymhwyso cyfyngiadau at werthu o dan yr hawl i gaffael ac ailwerthu tai hawl-i-brynu blaenorol i helpu pobl leol i gael tai fforddiadwy. Ar hyn o bryd, mae’r ardaloedd gwledig a ddynodwyd o dan y ddau gynllun yn wahanol ac mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad wedi ymgynghori ynghylch eu halinio a’u hymestyn. Cydnabyddwn bryderon ynghylch Deddf Hawliau Dynol 1998, ond rhaid inni ddal y ddysgl yn wastad rhwng awydd tenantiaid i brynu eu cartrefi a’r angen am ragor o dai fforddiadwy. Gan hynny, nid yw’r Gorchymyn yn dileu hawl y tenantiaid i gaffael unrhyw eiddo lle y mae’n bod ar hyn o bryd. Fodd bynnag, ni fydd tenantiaid newydd yn yr ardaloedd diwygiedig yn gallu arfer yr hawl i gaffael, er ei bod yn bosibl y byddant yn gallu prynu ar delerau’r cynllun prynu cartref.

The criteria originally proposed for designation as rural areas were: national parks, areas of outstanding natural beauty, and community council areas with a population density of two persons or fewer per hectare. However, during the consultation it became clear that many local authorities and other bodies also wanted to include rural towns. We therefore consulted on a proposal to include small towns or communities with a population of 3,000 or less. I am pleased to inform the Assembly that the revised criteria met with broad agreement and have been endorsed by the Local Government and Housing Committee. The Order before you shows the benefit of consultation. It also demonstrates the ability of the Government to respond to concerns about the sustainability of rural communities by assisting local people to establish a home in the area where they work or were brought up.

Y meini prawf a gynigiwyd yn wreiddiol ar gyfer dynodi ardaloedd gwledig oedd: parciau cenedlaethol, ardaloedd o harddwch naturiol eithriadol, ac ardaloedd cyngor cymuned a chanddynt drwch poblogaeth o ddau berson neu lai fesul hectar. Fodd bynnag, yn ystod yr ymgynghori daeth yn amlwg bod llawer o awdurdodau lleol a chyrff eraill hefyd yn dymuno cynnwys trefi gwledig. Gan hynny, bu inni ymgynghori ar gynnig i gynnwys trefi neu gymunedau bach a chanddynt boblogaeth o 3,000 neu lai. Yr wyf yn falch o hysbysu’r Cynulliad ein bod wedi cytuno’n gyffredinol ar y meini prawf diwygiedig a’u bod wedi’u cymeradwyo gan y Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai. Mae’r Gorchymyn ger eich bron yn dangos y budd a geir o ymgynghori. Mae hefyd yn dangos gallu’r Llywodraeth i ymateb i bryderon ynghylch cynaliadwyedd cymunedau gwledig drwy gynorthwyo pobl leol i ymgartrefu yn yr ardal lle y maent yn gweithio neu lle y’u magwyd.

To turn to William Graham’s amendment 1, we oppose this amendment, because it conflicts with the Welsh Assembly Government’s approach of tenure neutrality, whereby no individual tenure is promoted above any other. It is our view that the best way to achieve sustainable communities is through a mix of tenures. People should be able to choose home ownership if they wish, but we should recognise that many are happy to rent. We should not seek to influence their decision one way or another.

Gan droi at welliant 1 William Graham, yr ydym yn gwrthwynebu’r gwelliant hwn, gan ei fod yn mynd yn groes i agwedd niwtral Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru at ddaliadaeth, lle na hyrwyddir yr un ddaliadaeth benodol uwchlaw un arall. Credwn mai’r modd gorau i sicrhau cymunedau cynaliadwy yw drwy gymysgedd o ddaliadaethau. Dylai pobl allu dewis bod yn berchen ar eu cartrefi os dymunant, ond dylem gydnabod bod llawer yn fodlon rhentu. Ni ddylem geisio dylanwadu ar eu penderfyniad y naill ffordd neu’r llall.

To comment on the wider aspects of the right to buy, there has been much talk recently about the future of the scheme. Ministers have made it clear that they see difficulties with some aspects of how the scheme is operating; for example, with its effect on the supply of affordable housing and with exploitation of the rules. They are looking at options for dealing with these issues at a national level.

A gwneud sylw am yr agweddau ehangach ar yr hawl i brynu, bu llawer o sôn yn ddiweddar am ddyfodol y cynllun. Mae Gweinidogion wedi rhoi ar ddeall eu bod yn gweld anawsterau ynghylch rhai agweddau ar ddull gweithredu’r cynllun; er enghraifft, ei effaith ar y cyflenwad o dai fforddiadwy a chamddefnyddio’r rheolau. Maent yn ystyried dewisiadau ar gyfer delio â’r materion hyn ar lefel genedlaethol.

Most of the provisions governing the right to buy are contained in primary legislation. The Assembly has limited powers to affect the operation of the scheme in Wales. This Order, which concerns arrangements in rural areas, is an example of the Assembly’s powers. The National Assembly also has the power to determine the maximum discount allowed under the right to buy in Wales. I have today issued a consultation letter inviting comments on whether the maximum discount limit should be reduced from the present limit of £24,000. I have taken this action in response to concerns about the availability of affordable housing in Wales, whether for purchase or for rent. I hope that Members agree that, in taking this action, the Government is approaching this in a responsible and inclusive manner.

Mae’r rhan fwyaf o ragamodau yr hawl i brynu mewn deddfwriaeth sylfaenol. Mae gan y Cynulliad bwerau cyfyngedig i effeithio ar weithrediad y cynllun yng Nghymru. Mae’r Gorchymyn hwn, sy’n ymwneud â threfniadau mewn ardaloedd gwledig, yn enghraifft o bwerau’r Cynulliad. Mae pŵer gan y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol hefyd i bennu’r disgownt mwyaf a ganiateir o dan yr hawl i brynu yng Nghymru. Heddiw yr wyf wedi cyhoeddi llythyr ymgynghori sy’n gofyn am sylwadau ynghylch a ddylid gostwng y terfyn disgownt uchaf o’r terfyn uchaf presennol o £24,000. Cymerais y cam hwn mewn ymateb i bryderon ynghylch argaeledd tai fforddiadwy yng Nghymru, boed hynny ar gyfer prynu neu rentu. Gobeithiaf i Aelodau gytuno bod y Llywodraeth, wrth gymryd y camau hyn, yn ymdrin â’r mater hwn yn gyfrifol ac yn gynhwysol.

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 36

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 36

We agree with the Minister’s comments on this issue. Over the years, many people have taken advantage of the right to buy and there is no doubt that many would still like to do so. Many people have invested heavily in homes that they have occupied for many years. However, we must also accept that there is a crisis in many rural areas in terms of the availability of affordable housing. Whenever a unit is sold, it is taken out of the affordable housing market. It is increasingly expensive for local authorities or housing associations to replace units, and in previous years they have not been replaced at the rate at which they have been sold.

Cytunwn â sylwadau’r Gweinidog am y mater hwn. Dros y blynyddoedd, mae llawer o bobl wedi manteisio ar yr hawl i brynu ac nid oes dwywaith na fyddai llawer yn dymuno gwneud hynny o hyd. Mae llawer o bobl wedi buddsoddi’n helaeth mewn cartrefi y maent yn eu meddiannu ers blynyddoedd lawer. Er hynny, rhaid inni dderbyn hefyd fod argyfwng mewn llawer o ardaloedd gwledig o ran argaeledd tai fforddiadwy. Pryd bynnag y gwerthir uned, eir â hi oddi ar y farchnad dai fforddiadwy. Mae’n dod yn fwyfwy drud i awdurdodau lleol a chymdeithasau tai roi unedau yn eu lle, ac mewn blynyddoedd a fu ni wnaed hynny cyn gyflymed ag y’u gwerthwyd.

Therefore, we welcome this piece of legislation as a first step towards addressing the crisis in many rural areas in terms of the availability of affordable housing. Unfortunately, it is not only in rural areas that this is a developing problem. I therefore welcome the new initiatives announced by the Minister today. I ask her to return to Committee with a paper on urban areas, where there are pressures in terms of the social housing market. Given the pressure that is building in urban areas such as Cardiff, where there is increasing demand for affordable housing, we will not support the amendment.

Felly, croesawn y ddeddfwriaeth hon fel cam cyntaf tuat at ymdrin â’r argyfwng mewn sawl ardal gwledig o ran argaeledd tai fforddiadwy. Gwaetha’r modd, nid yn unig mewn ardaloedd gwledig y mae’r broblem hon yn datblygu. Gan hynny, croesawaf y mentrau newydd a gyhoeddodd y Gweinidog heddiw. Gofynnaf iddi ddychwelyd i’r Pwyllgor gyda phapur ar ardaloedd trefol, lle y mae pwysau o ran y farchnad dai cymdeithasol. O gofio’r pwysau cynyddol mewn ardaloedd trefol fel Caerdydd, lle y mae galw cynyddol am dai fforddiadwy, ni chefnogwn y gwelliant.

We must closely consider the right-to-buy scheme because of its effect on the amount of affordable housing available; that must be our primary aim. We will support the legislation, but not the amendment.

Rhaid inni ystyried y cynllun hawl i brynu’n fanwl oherwydd ei effaith ar y nifer o dai fforddiadwy sydd ar gael; rhaid i hynny fod yn brif nod gennym. Cefnogwn y ddeddfwriaeth, ond nid y gwelliant.

William Graham spoken in English p. 37

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 37

I propose amendment 1 to motion NDM1287. Insert a new point:

Cynigiaf welliant 1 i gynnig NDM1287. Ychwanegu pwynt newydd:

William Graham (continued) spoken in English p. 37

William Graham (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 37

We acknowledge that the shortage of affordable housing is a major crisis that impacts on all parts of Wales. It affects our rural villages as well as town and city communities. The measures proposed in this Order are designed to tackle this issue in rural Wales. However, we must not forget the needs of people in other areas of Wales. An overwhelming majority of tenants aspire to own their own homes. The right-to-buy scheme has been a remarkable success and has offered many people their only opportunity to realise their wish to own a home. The Conservative Party continues to understand their desires and is committed to further enhancement of the right to buy scheme and encouraging people to own their own home.

Cydnabyddwn fod y prinder tai fforddiadwy yn argyfwng mawr sy’n effeithio ar bob rhan o Gymru. Mae’n effeithio ar ein pentrefi gwledig yn ogystal â chymunedau mewn trefi a dinasoedd. Bwriad y mesurau a gynigir yn y Gorchymyn hwn yw ymdrin â’r mater hwn yn y Gymru wledig. Fodd bynnag, ni ddylem anghofio anghenion pobl mewn rhannau eraill o Gymru. Uchelgais y mwyafrif llethol o denantiaid yw bod yn berchen ar eu cartrefi. Bu’r cynllun hawl i brynu’n llwyddiant rhyfeddol ac mae wedi cynnig yr unig gyfle i lawer o bobl gyflawni eu dymuniad i fod yn berchen ar gartref. Mae’r Blaid Geidwadol yn dal i ddeall eu dyheadau ac mae wedi ymrwymo i hyrwyddo’r cynllun hawl i brynu ymhellach ac i annog pobl i fod yn berchen ar eu cartrefi.

There are areas of concern within the right to buy. We welcome this measure, but we also hope that, in time, the Minister will implement measures to help those who have adapted homes for disabled use.

Mae meysydd sy’n peri pryder o fewn yr hawl i brynu. Croesawn y mesur hwn, ond yr ydym hefyd yn gobeithio y bydd y Gweinidog, ymhen amser, yn rhoi mesurau ar waith i helpu’r rhai sydd wedi addasu eu cartrefi i’w defnyddio gan bobl anabl.

Despite its promises, Labour has failed to deliver on providing affordable housing. While the level of homelessness has increased, the amount of social housing has fallen. Before the 1997 general election, Labour promised to give everyone the chance of finding a decent home. However, Labour has made it even more difficult for people to step onto the property ladder. It has increased stealth taxes by abolishing mortgage income tax relief, has raised stamp duty and has axed many of the right-to-buy discounts.

Er gwaethaf ei addewidion, mae Llafur wedi methu â mynd â’r maen i’r wal o ran darparu tai fforddiadwy. Tra bo digartrefedd wedi cynyddu, mae nifer y tai cymdeithasol wedi gostwng. Cyn etholiad cyffredinol 1997, bu i Lafur addo rhoi cyfle i bawb gael cartref derbyniol. Er hynny, mae Llafur wedi’i gwneud yn anos byth i bobl roi troed ar yr ysgol eiddo. Mae wedi cynyddu trethi llechwraidd drwy ddiddymu’r rhyddhad treth incwm ar forgeisi, wedi cynyddu’r dreth stamp ac wedi dileu llawer o’r gostyngiadau hawl i brynu.

This administration is keen to remind us that it is seeking Welsh solutions to Welsh problems. The majority of people aspire to own their own home, and we should help them to achieve that. The right-to-buy scheme is the most effective way of allowing people to achieve home ownership.

Mae’r weinyddiaeth hon yn awyddus i’n hatgoffa ei bod yn ceisio atebion Cymreig i broblemau Cymreig. Mae’r rhan fwyaf o bobl yn dyheu am gael bod yn berchen ar eu cartref eu hunain, a dylem eu helpu i gyflawni hynny. Y cynllun hawl i brynu yw’r dull mwyaf effeithiol o ganiatáu i bobl ddod yn berchnogion ar eu cartrefi.

There are many objections to the right to buy. However, upon closer examination, those objections fail to stand up. It has been claimed that the better council houses have been bought without regard to how tenants enhanced their home environment, or to the fact that right-to-buy sales have increased in areas recognised as being among the most deprived in Wales, such as Blaenau Gwent. Over 20 years after the right to buy was introduced, over three families a week in Blaenau Gwent achieve their ambition of home ownership.

Mae llawer o wrthwynebiadau i’r hawl i brynu. Fodd bynnag, o’u hastudio’n fwy manwl, gwelir nad yw’r gwrthwynebiadau hynny’n ddilys. Honnwyd bod y tai cyngor gwell wedi’u prynu heb ystyried y modd y mae tenantiaid wedi gwella amgylchedd eu cartrefi, neu’r ffaith bod gwerthu drwy’r hawl i brynu wedi cynyddu mewn ardaloedd y cydnabyddir eu bod ymysg y rhai mwyaf difreintiedig yng Nghymru, fel Blaenau Gwent. Mwy nag 20 mlynedd ar ôl cyflwyno’r hawl i brynu, mae mwy na thri theulu’r wythnos ym Mlaenau Gwent yn cyflawni eu huchelgais i fod yn berchen ar eu cartrefi.

Councils’ failure to effectively manage their housing stock is rarely given consideration. Organisations such as Shelter Cymru agree that this Labour-led Government has failed to release money from right to buy to finance the building of social housing and it acknowledges that the money has gone towards council debt. It is an alarming fact that the number of local-authority owned properties that have been vacant for more than six months has increased by over 1,000 since 1999—more than one per day for the life of this Assembly. The right to buy takes housing stock from inefficient councils and allows tenants the opportunity of home ownership.

Anaml yr ystyrir methiant cynghorau i reoli eu stoc dai’n effeithiol. Mae cyrff fel Shelter Cymru yn cytuno bod y Llywodraeth hon dan arweiniad Llafur wedi methu â rhyddhau arian o’r cynllun hawl i brynu i gyllido’r gwaith o godi tai cymdeithasol a chydnebydd fod yr arian wedi mynd tuag at dalu dyledion cynghorau. Ffaith frawychus yw bod nifer y tai sy’n eiddo i awdurdodau lleol a fu’n wag am fwy na chwe mis wedi cynyddu o ragor na 1,000 er 1999—mwy nag un am bob diwrnod o oes y Cynulliad hwn. Mae’r hawl i brynu yn mynd â stoc dai oddi ar gynghorau aneffeithlon ac yn rhoi cyfle i denantiaid ddod yn berchnogion ar eu cartrefi.

Eleanor Burnham spoken in English p. 38

Eleanor Burnham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 38

The Welsh Liberal Democrats welcome this motion. While Wales has always had a fluid population, from which it has benefited, we must ensure that there is enough affordable housing for local people to stay in their home communities if that is what they want. These issues have arisen in relation to the preservation of Welsh-speaking communities, but they also apply to rural communities in Wales that are predominantly English-speaking. This measure is not about ghettoising to keep people out, and it is not about building fences to keep people in. People who have grown up in their communities should have the opportunity to remain there if they wish. We intend to help them have that opportunity.

Mae Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru yn croesawu’r cynnig hwn. Er bod poblogaeth Cymru’n un symudol erioed, a hynny er mantais iddi, rhaid inni sicrhau bod digon o dai fforddiadwy i bobl leol gael aros yn eu cymunedau lleol os mai hynny yw eu dymuniad. Mae’r materion hyn wedi codi mewn cysylltiad â chymunedau Cymraeg eu hiaith, ond maent yn berthnasol hefyd i gymunedau gwledig yng Nghymru sy’n rhai Saesneg eu hiaith yn bennaf. Nid yw’r mesur hwn yn ymwneud â getoeiddio i gadw pobl allan, ac nid yw’n ymwneud â chodi rhwystrau i gadw pobl i mewn. Dylai rhai sydd wedi dod i oed yn eu cymunedau gael cyfle i aros yno os dymunant. Bwriadwn eu helpu i gael y cyfle hwnnw.

The Welsh Liberal Democrats are not opposed to the right to buy, but it is essential to ensure sufficient quality housing for all. The partnership Government’s homebuy scheme is designed to enable people to buy affordable properties in their own communities. The selling of housing association homes—advocated by the Tories—would reduce the stock of affordable rented housing in these communities. Local people will be forced to look elsewhere, efforts to protect the Welsh language will be in vain, and those houses that have been sold will be resold at an unreasonable profit, possibly to those seeking a second home.

Nid yw Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru yn gwrthwynebu’r hawl i brynu, ond mae’n hollbwysig sicrhau bod digon o dai o ansawdd da i bawb. Bwriad cynllun prynu cartref y Llywodraeth bartneriaeth yw galluogi pobl i brynu tai fforddiadwy yn eu cymunedau eu hunain. Byddai gwerthu cartrefi cymdeithasau tai—fel y mae’r Torïaid yn ei argymell—yn lleihau’r stoc o dai rhent fforddiadwy yn y cymunedau hyn. Bydd yn rhaid i bobl leol chwilio mewn mannau eraill, bydd ymdrechion i ddiogelu’r Gymraeg yn ofer, a bydd y tai hynny sydd wedi’u gwerthu’n cael eu hailwerthu am elw afresymol, efallai i rai sy’n chwilio am ail gartref.

Lorraine Barrett spoken in English p. 39

Lorraine Barrett siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 39

I cannot support the amendment to this motion. It is understandable that some people who have lived in their council houses for decades, and who have brought up their children in those houses, might want to purchase the house when they can afford it. However, the consequence of that happening to thousands of council houses, as in the case of Cardiff, which is at a crisis point at present, is that we do not have enough council or social housing left for new generations. We must look at the bigger picture. The problem with a mass sell-off of council houses in particular, is that Cardiff, for example, is left with flats and maisonettes in areas that many people are not keen to move into. Some will say that new houses can be built. That is all well and good, but what if the tenants want to buy them after five years? Several constituents have said to me that they want to rent a council house or a housing association house in order to buy it in five years’ time. I must be upfront with them and say that I cannot support that. That is not why we should be building more affordable rented housing. I also make a plea for this Order to be extended to other communities, such as Butetown and Grangetown, to name but two areas where people still want to live and work near their families.

Ni allaf gefnogi’r gwelliant i’r cynnig hwn. Mae’n ddealladwy y byddai rhai pobl sy’n byw yn eu tai cyngor ers degawdau, ac wedi magu eu plant yn y tai hynny, yn dymuno prynu’r tŷ pan allant ei fforddio. Fodd bynnag, am fod hynny wedi digwydd i filoedd o dai cyngor, fel y gwnaeth yng Nghaerdydd, sydd mewn argyfwng ar hyn o bryd, nid oes gennym ddigon o dai cyngor neu dai cymdeithasol yn weddill ar gyfer cenedlaethau newydd. Rhaid inni edrych ar y darlun ehangach. Y broblem ynghylch gwerthu tai cyngor mewn crynswth yn benodol yw bod gan Gaerdydd, er enghraifft, fflatiau unllawr a deulawr ar ei ddwylo mewn ardaloedd nad yw llawer o bobl yn awyddus i symud iddynt. Bydd rhai’n dweud y gellir codi tai newydd. Mae popeth yn iawn gyda hynny, ond beth a ddigwydd os yw’r tenantiaid am eu prynu ar ôl pum mlynedd? Mae nifer o’m hetholwyr wedi dweud wrthyf eu bod am rentu tŷ cyngor neu dŷ cymdeithas dai er mwyn ei brynu ymhen pum mlynedd. Rhaid imi ddweud yn blwmp ac yn blaen wrthynt na allaf gefnogi hynny. Nid er mwyn hynny y dylem godi rhagor o dai rhent fforddiadwy. Apeliaf hefyd am ymestyn y Gorchymyn hwn i gynnwys cymunedau eraill, fel Butetown a Grangetown, ac enwi dim ond dwy ardal lle y mae pobl yn dal i ddymuno byw a gweithio’n agos i’w teuluoedd.

Edwina Hart The Finance Minister spoken in English p. 40

Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog Cyllid siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 40

I thank Members for their general support for this Order. There are a number of issues regarding the way in which we have presented it. There is a population limit of 3,000 for inclusion in the Order and there are many definitions of rurality. However, the existing Order applies to the right to buy and acquire designated areas by reference to the community council boundaries. I would have to carefully consider a number of issues relating to this Order from a legal perspective.

Diolchaf i’r Aelodau am eu cefnogaeth gyffredinol i’r Gorchymyn hwn. Mae nifer o faterion ynghylch y modd yr ydym wedi’i gyflwyno. Mae terfyn poblogaeth o 3,000 ar gyfer cynnwys ardaloedd yn y Gorchymyn ac mae llawer o ddiffiniadau o wledigrwydd. Fodd bynnag, mae’r Gorchymyn presennol yn berthnasol i’r ardaloedd dynodedig ar gyfer yr hawl i brynu a’r hawl i gaffael yn ôl ffiniau cynghorau cymuned. Byddai’n rhaid imi ystyried nifer o faterion yn ofalus mewn cysylltiad â’r Gorchymyn hwn o safbwynt cyfreithiol.

It is important that we are also mindful of the other issues regarding affordable housing across Wales. Janet Ryder made the point that there are problems within urban areas, and I am more than happy to consider that issue further and discuss it in the Local Government and Housing Committee. It is important that we understand the problem of finding affordable housing across Wales. It is not just a rural issue. We know that it is an issue in Cardiff and in some areas in the Vale of Glamorgan and elsewhere, where people are experiencing great difficulty in terms of finding affordable housing. We have consulted widely on these proposals, and I am pleased that we received broad support for our proposals from the consultees.

Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn cofio hefyd am y materion eraill sy’n codi mewn cysylltiad â thai fforddiadwy ledled Cymru. Janet Ryder a wnaeth y pwynt bod problemau mewn ardaloedd trefol, ac yr wyf yn fwy na bodlon ystyried y mater hwnnw ymhellach a’i drafod yn y Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai. Mae’n bwysig inni ddeall y broblem o ddod o hyd i dai fforddiadwy ledled Cymru. Nid mater gwledig yn unig ydyw. Gwyddom ei fod yn fater o bwys yng Nghaerdydd ac mewn rhai ardaloedd ym Mro Morgannwg ac mewn mannau eraill, lle y mae pobl yn ei chael yn anodd iawn o ran dod o hyd i dai fforddiadwy. Yr ydym wedi ymgynghori’n eang ar y cynigion hyn, ac yr wyf yn falch ein bod wedi cael cefnogaeth gyffredinol i’n cynigion gan y rhai yr ymgynghorwyd â hwy.

As I indicated earlier, I understand the position of William Graham’s party on this issue, but we must take a balanced approach on the right to buy. I agree with Lorraine Barrett on this matter.

Fel y nodais yn gynharach, yr wyf yn deall safbwynt plaid William Graham ar y mater hwn, ond rhaid inni ymdrin yn gytbwys â’r hawl i brynu. Cytunaf â Lorraine Barrett ar y mater hwn.

Gwelliant 1 William Graham t. 40

Amendment 1 William Graham p. 40

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 8 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 36

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment rejected.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (8)
  • Nick Bourne
  • Alun Cairns
  • David Davies
  • William Graham
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Peter Rogers
  • Owen John Thomas
Yn erbynAgainst (36)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Kirsty Williams

Cynnig NDM1287 Edwina Hart t. 41

Motion NDM1287 Edwina Hart p. 41

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 47 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (47)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams

Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 42

Owen John Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 42

Pwynt o drefn.

Point of order.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 42

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 42

Order. We are in the middle of a vote.

Trefn. Yr ydym ar ganol pleidlais.

Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 42

Owen John Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 42

Yr wyf wedi cambleidleisio.

I have voted incorrectly.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 42

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 42

Mae’n ddrwg gennyf am hynny.

I am sorry about that.

Cynnig NDM1288 Edwina Hart t. 42

Motion NDM1288 Edwina Hart p. 42

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 48 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (48)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams

Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd i’r Gadair am 3.22 p.m.

The Deputy Presiding Officer took the Chair at 3.22 p.m.

Ymestyn Hawliau

Extending Entitlement

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 43

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 43

I have selected amendments 1 and 2 in the name of Jonathan Morgan.

Yr wyf wedi dethol gwelliannau 1 a 2 yn enw Jonathan Morgan.

Jane Davidson Y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 43

Jane Davidson The Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning spoken in Welsh p. 43

Cynigiaf fod

I propose that

Jane Davidson Y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 43

Jane Davidson The Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning (continued) spoken in Welsh and English p. 43

Mae’n bleser gennyf siarad o blaid y cynnig. Mae ymestyn hawliau yn ddull gweithredu sydd yn wirioneddol wedi’i wneud yng Nghymru. Mae’n ymgais i fynd i’r afael â phroblemau a phryderon pobl ifanc a chyfoethogi bywydau yn y ffyrdd sydd yn gweithio orau inni yng Nghymru. Hon oedd menter bolisi gyntaf Llywodraeth y Cynulliad i dderbyn cefnogaeth lawn ac unfrydol pan gafodd ei thrafod am y tro cyntaf yn y Cyfarfod Llawn ychydig dros ddwy flynedd yn ôl.

in Welsh It is my pleasure to speak in favour of the motion. Extending entitlement is an action plan that has truly been made in Wales. It is an attempt to tackle the problems and concerns of young people and enrich lives in ways that work best for us in Wales. This was the first Assembly Government policy initiative to receive full and unanimous support when it was discussed for the first time in Plenary just over two years ago.

Mae ymestyn hawliau yn cyffwrdd â phob elfen o weithgareddau addysgol, economaidd, a hamdden pobl ifanc, ac yn cael effaith ar eu hiechyd a’u lles, ac ar fywyd a ffyniant ein cymunedau. Yr ydym wedi cyflawni llawer ers y drafodaeth gyntaf honno. Croesawaf ein gwaith ar yr agenda hon, ac felly ni chefnogaf welliant 1 yn enw Jonathan Morgan i nodi’r cynnydd yn hytrach na’i groesawu.

in Welsh Extending entitlement touches every aspect of the educational, economic and leisure activities of young people, and affects their health and welfare, and the life and prosperity of our communities. We have achieved much since that first discussion. I welcome our work on this agenda, and therefore I will not support amendment 1 in the name of Jonathan Morgan to note the progress rather than welcome it.

Yr ydym wedi siarad â phobl—pobl ifanc yn arbennig—a sefydliadau ar hyd a lled Cymru, ac yr ydym wedi gwrando ar yr hyn sydd ganddynt i’w ddweud am y ffordd orau o ddatblygu’r fenter gyffrous hon. Yr ydym wedi gweithredu’r cyfarwyddiadau gwasanaethau cymorth ieuenctid a ddaeth i rym fis Medi diwethaf, sydd yn rhoi sail statudol i’r gwasanaeth ieuenctid yng Nghymru, ac sydd yn ei wneud yn unigryw ym Mhrydain. Mae’r cyfarwyddiadau hefyd yn sicrhau y bydd pob awdurdod lleol yng Nghymru yn cydweithio’n agos â’n partneriaid statudol a gwirfoddol a phobl ifanc yn y dyfodol i ddatblygu’r rhwydwaith o wasanaethau a chymorth i ddiwallu anghenion pobl ifanc. Mae 22 o bartneriaethau pobl ifanc lleol wedi’u sefydlu. Mae rhai hefyd wedi cydweithio â phobl ifanc i freudwyddio’r freuddwyd—gweledigaeth ar gyfer darparu gwasanaethau a chymorth i bobl ifanc yn eu hardaloedd fel hawl gyffredinol a bennwyd gennym—ac maent wedi archwilio’r hyn sydd ar y gweill ar hyn o bryd yn eu hardaloedd. Maent hefyd wedi datblygu cynlluniau strategol pum mlynedd i weithredu eu gweledigaeth a chynlluniau cyflwyno i nodi pa gamau a gymerir eleni i gychwyn y broses.

in Welsh We have spoken to people—young people in particular—and to establishments across Wales, and we have listened to what they have to say about the best way to develop this important and exciting initiative. We have implemented the guidance of the youth support services, which came into force last September, and which gives the youth service in Wales a statutory basis, making it unique in Britain. The guidance also ensures that every local authority in Wales in future will work closely with our statutory and voluntary partners and young people to develop the network of services and aid to meet young people’s needs. Twenty-two local young people’s partnerships have been established. Some have also worked with young people to dream the dream—a vision for providing services and support for young people in their areas, which we have determined to be a basic right—and have examined what is already in progress in their areas. They have also developed five-year strategic plans to take their vision forward and presentation plans to note which steps are being taken this year to start the process.

It is exciting to see the various pieces of the jigsaw coming into place and, although it is still early days, many common themes are emerging from this process. Young people across Wales have spoken loudly to let us know what they need, which is reflected in the priorities emerging from the young people’s partnerships. It is not surprising that the list includes measures such as developing ways of providing information where, how, and when young people need it; providing a wider range of opportunities in learning, training, employment and leisure; making facilities more accessible and open at the times that young people need them; considering ways of basing leisure and recreational facilities in local communities, with affordable transport running at the right times so that young people can get to them and get home safely afterwards; improving support for young people by ensuring that it is provided by people whom they can trust and who are skilled at working with young people, are properly trained and are readily available; improving the health service, including in relation to mental health issues, counselling, substance abuse, and sexual health and, again, ensuring that the provision is in an acceptable format; improving methods for listening to young people and involving them more in decisions that effect their lives; and doing more to focus mainstream services, such as those on housing and benefits, on meeting young people’s needs.

yn Saesneg Mae’n gyffrous gweld gwahanol ddarnau’r jig-so’n mynd i’w lle ac, er mai megis dechrau yr ydym, mae llawer o themâu cyffredin yn codi o’r broses hon. Mae pobl ifanc ledled Cymru wedi codi eu llais i roi gwybod inni am eu hanghenion, ac adlewyrchir hynny yn y blaenoriaethau sy’n deillio o’r partneriaethau pobl ifanc. Nid yw’n syndod bod y rhestr yn cynnwys mesurau fel datblygu dulliau o ddarparu gwybodaeth ar gyfer pobl ifanc yn y man a’r modd ac ar yr adeg y mae arnynt ei hangen; cynnig amrediad ehangach o gyfleoedd mewn dysgu, hyfforddiant, cyflogaeth a hamdden; gwneud cyfleusterau’n fwy hygyrch a sicrhau eu bod yn agored ar yr adegau y mae ar bobl ifanc eu hangen; ystyried dulliau o leoli cyfleusterau hamdden ac adloniadol mewn cymunedau lleol, gyda thrafnidiaeth fforddiadwy sy’n rhedeg ar yr adegau iawn fel y gall pobl ifanc eu cyrraedd a dod adref yn ddiogel wedyn; gwella’r cymorth i bobl ifanc drwy sicrhau y caiff ei ddarparu gan bobl y gallant ymddiried ynddynt ac sy’n fedrus wrth weithio gyda phobl ifanc, wedi’u hyfforddi’n briodol ac ar gael yn rhwydd; gwella’r gwasanaeth iechyd, gan gynnwys materion sy’n gysylltiedig ag iechyd meddwl, cynghori, camddefnyddio sylweddau, ac iechyd rhywiol ac, unwaith eto, sicrhau bod y ddarpariaeth ar ffurf dderbyniol; gwella dulliau ar gyfer gwrando ar bobl ifanc a’u cynnwys i raddau mwy mewn penderfyniadau sy’n effeithio ar eu bywydau; a gwneud rhagor i gyfeirio gwasanaethau prif ffrwd, fel y rhai sy’n ymwneud â thai a budd-daliadau, i ddiwallu anghenion pobl ifanc.

Therefore, it is now up to us and our local and national partners—some of whom I am pleased to see in the public gallery this afternoon—to listen and respond. The future credibility of all of us rests on how effective that response is. Young people have told us time and again that they want better information.

yn Saesneg Gan hynny, mater i ni a’n partneriaid lleol a chenedlaethol—yr wyf yn falch o weld rhai ohonynt yn yr oriel gyhoeddus y prynhawn yma—yw gwrando ac ymateb yn awr. Mae hygrededd pob un ohonom yn y dyfodol yn dibynnu ar effeithiolrwydd yr ymateb hwnnw. Mae pobl ifanc wedi dweud wrthym dro ar ôl tro eu bod am gael gwell gwybodaeth.

A few months ago we launched Wise, the information handbook distributed to all 16-year-olds and backed up with a website and a free Euro under-26 discount card for Canllaw Online. The contents and layout of this year’s handbook reflects the feedback received from young people after the first edition was published last year. I am delighted that young people told me that they had found the document easy and informative to read. Teachers in Wales are now starting to use it for personal and social education, because it is written in a language accessible to young people. As I said, it is backed up by a website and by telephone helplines.

yn Saesneg Ychydig fisoedd yn ôl bu inni lansio Wise, y llawlyfr gwybodaeth a ddosbarthwyd i bawb sy’n 16 mlwydd oed, gyda gwefan a cherdyn disgownt Ewro am ddim i rai dan 26 oed ar gyfer Canllaw Ar-lein i’w ategu. Mae cynnwys a chynllun y llawlyfr ar gyfer eleni’n adlewyrchu’r adborth a gafwyd oddi wrth bobl ifanc ar ôl cyhoeddi’r rhifyn cyntaf y llynedd. Yr wyf yn falch iawn bod pobl ifanc wedi dweud wrthyf eu bod wedi cael y ddogfen yn un hawdd ei darllen a llawn gwybodaeth. Mae athrawon yng Nghymru’n dechrau ei defnyddio bellach ar gyfer addysg bersonol a chymdeithasol, gan ei bod wedi’i hysgrifennu mewn iaith y mae’n hawdd i bobl ifanc ei deall. Fel y dywedais, mae gwefan a llinellau cymorth ffôn i’w ategu.

Canllaw Online is also working hard with local partners to set up a network of high-quality local information points for young people across Wales. By September last year, 71 outlets in 19 local authority areas had been registered, including one shop, 28 info-zones, three mobile units, and 35 info-points. Jane Hutt and I recently attended the official launch of the website for Funky Dragon, the children and young people’s Assembly, which is made up of representatives of local youth fora and other voluntary youth groups. Funky Dragon has also recently launched a set of guidelines for organisations to use in establishing the effective participation of children and young people in Wales. Jane and I are due to meet the council again shortly.

yn Saesneg Mae Canllaw Ar-lein yn gweithio’n galed hefyd gyda phartneriaid lleol i sefydlu rhwydwaith o bwyntiau gwybodaeth lleol o ansawdd da ar gyfer pobl ifanc ledled Cymru. Erbyn mis Medi y llynedd, yr oedd 71 o leoedd darparu mewn 19 o ardaloedd awdurdod lleol wedi’u cofrestru, gan gynnwys un siop, 28 parth gwybodaeth, tair uned symudol, a 35 o bwyntiau gwybodaeth. Yn ddiweddar bu Jane Hutt a minnau’n bresennol yng nghyfarfod lansio swyddogol y wefan ar gyfer Draig Ffynci, y Cynulliad i blant a phobl ifanc, sy’n cynnwys cynrychiolwyr fforymau ieuenctid lleol a grwpiau ieuenctid gwirfoddol eraill. Yn ddiweddar, mae Draig Ffynci hefyd wedi lansio set o ganllawiau i’w defnyddio gan gyrff wrth sicrhau cyfranogiad effeithiol gan blant a phobl ifanc yng Nghymru. Mae Jane a minnau i gwrdd â’r cyngor eto cyn hir.

I am committed, as you know, to ensuring that we have schools’ councils in all primary and secondary schools in Wales by September 2004. Section 176 of the Education Act 2002 places a duty on local education authorities and the governing bodies of maintained schools, in the exercise of their functions, to have regard to any guidance from the Assembly about consultation with pupils in taking decisions that effect them. This is designed to encourage greater participation by children and young people in decision-making in schools, which was warmly welcomed by all parties in developing the education agenda.

yn Saesneg Yr wyf wedi ymrwymo, fel y gwyddoch, i sicrhau bod gennym gynghorau ysgol ym mhob ysgol gynradd ac uwchradd yng Nghymru erbyn Medi 2004. Mae adran 176 o Ddeddf Addysg 2002 yn rhoi awdurdodau addysg lleol a chyrff llywodraethu ysgolion a gynhelir o dan ddyletswydd, wrth arfer eu swyddogaethau, i roi sylw i unrhyw arweiniad gan y Cynulliad ynghylch ymgynghori â disgyblion wrth wneud penderfyniadau sy’n effeithio arnynt. Amcan hynny yw hyrwyddo mwy o gyfranogiad gan blant a phobl ifanc mewn penderfyniadau mewn ysgolion, ac yr oedd croeso brwd i hynny ymysg pawb sy’n gysylltiedig â datblygu’r agenda addysg.

Another groundbreaking initiative is the appointment of the Children’s Commissioner for Wales, Peter Clarke. That is a first in the UK. His powers are designed to allow him to act as an informed champion of children and their rights, and demonstrates the value that we place on giving a voice to young people in Wales. ‘Learning Country: Learning Pathways 14-19’, which we debated in its early consultation just before Christmas, is about helping our young people develop skills for life in the twenty-first century. Each young person, including those with special education needs, will have an agreed and individually tailored learning pathway. They will have access to good advice and support on all aspects of their learning. Our target on this is ambitious—95 per cent of young people ready for high-skilled employment or higher education by 2015. If you still wish to respond to this agenda, the consultation is open until 7 February.

yn Saesneg Menter arloesol arall yw penodi Comisiynydd Plant Cymru, Peter Clarke. Mae hynny’n rhywbeth cwbl newydd yn y DU. Bwriedir i’w bwerau ganiatáu iddo weithredu fel cefnogwr gwybodus dros blant a’u hawliau, ac mae hyn yn dangos y gwerth a roddwn ar roi llais i bobl ifanc yng Nghymru. Mae ‘Y Wlad sy’n Dysgu: Llwybrau Dysgu 14-19’, y bu inni ei drafod yn ystod yr ymgynghoriad cyntaf arno ychydig cyn y Nadolig, yn ymwneud â helpu ein pobl ifanc i ddatblygu sgiliau ar gyfer bywyd yn yr unfed ganrif ar hugain. Bydd pob person ifanc, gan gynnwys rhai sydd ag anghenion addysg arbennig, yn cael llwybr dysgu sydd wedi’i gytuno a’i addasu ar ei gyfer yn unigol. Byddant yn gallu cael cyngor da a chymorth ynghylch pob agwedd ar eu dysgu. Mae gennym darged uchelgeisiol ar gyfer hyn—i 95 y cant o bobl ifanc fod yn barod ar gyfer gwaith hyfedr neu addysg uwch erbyn 2015. Os ydych yn dal i ddymuno ymateb i’r agenda hon, mae’r ymgynghoriad yn parhau hyd 7 Chwefror.

I was particularly delighted to be able to contribute towards the European agenda for young people and the European White Paper. Our participation agenda in Wales was quoted as the first example of good practice in the European White Paper on youth published last November. We share the European-wide priority given to information and participation, for example, and expect to offer other examples of best practice in the coming months to share between member states across the European Union.

yn Saesneg Yr oeddwn yn arbennig o falch o allu cyfrannu at yr agenda Ewropeaidd ar gyfer pobl ifanc a’r Papur Gwyn Ewropeaidd. Cyfeiriwyd at ein hagenda cyfranogiad yng Nghymru fel yr enghraifft gyntaf o arfer da yn y Papur Gwyn Ewropeaidd ar ieuenctid a gyhoeddwyd fis Tachwedd diwethaf. Rhannwn y flaenoriaeth a roddir ledled Ewrop i wybodaeth a chyfranogiad, er enghraifft, ac yn disgwyl cynnig enghreifftiau eraill o arfer da yn y misoedd i ddod i’w rhannu rhwng aelod wladwriaethau ledled yr Undeb Ewropeaidd.

This agenda allows teachers and youth workers to be involved in a new and exciting initiative. We have all come a long way in a short time, but our commitment to young people in Wales is total. This progress should be recognised as a significant achievement. I therefore oppose Jonathan Morgan’s amendment 2.

yn Saesneg Mae’r agenda hon yn gadael i athrawon a gweithwyr ieuenctid gymryd rhan mewn menter newydd a chyffrous. Yr ydym wedi mynd yn bell o fewn cyfnod byr, ond mae ein hymrwymiad i bobl ifanc yng Nghymru’n un trwyadl. Dylid cydnabod bod y cynnydd hwn yn gyflawniad pwysig. Yr wyf felly’n gwrthwynebu gwelliant 2 Jonathan Morgan.

It is vital that we learn lessons about the real impact of the extending entitlement strategy on young people’s lives. For that reason, we are currently working with national partners and young people’s partnerships to put an evaluation strategy in place.

yn Saesneg Mae’n hollbwysig ein bod yn dysgu gwersi am wir effaith y strategaeth ymestyn hawliau ar fywydau pobl ifanc. Oherwydd hynny, yr ydym yn gweithio gyda phartneriaid cenedlaethol a phartneriaethau pobl ifanc ar hyn o bryd i roi strategaeth gwerthuso ar waith.

Nid mater i mi yn unig, fel Gweinidog, yw rhoi pwyslais ar anghenion pobl ifanc wrth gynllunio a chyflwyno gwasanaethau, ond mater i’r Cabinet cyfan, y Cynulliad cyfan, a’n partneriaid cynllunio a chyflwyno yn ein holl weithgareddau. Pobl ifanc yw dinasyddion y dyfodol. Gallai’r hyn a wnawn—neu na wnawn—gael effaith ddramatig ar eu lles, eu sgiliau a’u hunan-hyder. Os ydym am wneud gwir wahaniaeth, a rhoi cyfleoedd a dewisiadau i bobl ifanc nad ydynt wedi eu cael ers cyhyd, rhaid inni sicrhau ein bod yn gwthio’r agenda yn ei blaen ac yn parhau i roi ystyriaeth lawn i bobl ifanc. Bydd hyn yn talu ar ei ganfed.

in Welsh Emphasising the needs of young people in planning and delivering services is not a matter for me alone, as Minister, but for the entire Cabinet, the entire Assembly and our partners in planning and delivering in all our activities. Young people are the citizens of the future. What we do—or do not do—could have a dramatic effect on their welfare, their skills and their self-confidence. If we are to make a real difference, and afford young people the opportunities and choices that they have not had for so long, we must ensure that we push the agenda forward and continue to give young people full consideration. That will pay dividends.

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 47

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 47

I propose amendments 1 and 2 in my name. Amendment 1: delete ‘welcomes’ and replace with ‘notes’.

Cynigiaf welliannau 1 a 2 yn fy enw i. Gwelliant 1: dileu ‘yn croesawu’ a rhoi ‘yn nodi’ yn ei le.

Jonathan Morgan (continued) spoken in English p. 48

Jonathan Morgan (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 48

I propose amendment 2. Delete ‘.’ and add

Cynigiaf welliant 2. Dileu ‘.’ ac ychwanegu ar y diwedd

Jonathan Morgan (continued) spoken in English p. 48

Jonathan Morgan (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 48

I want to focus specifically on the schools sector this afternoon, and on the references in the ‘Extending Entitlement’ report to schools and education. That report was published some two years ago and I am rather concerned, as I was expecting the Minister to come forward with a new report outlining the progress of the past couple of years. This debate stems from an all-encompassing report published in 2000 and I anticipated a similarly all-encompassing report outlining progress in all areas to the Assembly today. I can only conclude that there was not as much progress as the Minister and the Government would have wished, and that the expected achievements were not gained.

Dymunaf ganolbwyntio’n benodol ar y sector ysgolion y prynhawn yma, ac ar y cyfeiriadau yn yr adroddiad ‘Ymestyn Hawliau’ at ysgolion ac addysg. Cyhoeddwyd yr adroddiad hwnnw tua dwy flynedd yn ôl ac yr wyf braidd yn bryderus, gan fy mod yn disgwyl i’r Gweinidog roi adroddiad newydd gerbron a fyddai’n disgrifio’r cynnydd yn y ddwy flynedd diwethaf. Mae’r ddadl hon yn deillio o adroddiad hollgynhwysol a gyhoeddwyd yn 2000 ac yr oeddwn wedi disgwyl adroddiad yr un mor hollgynhwysol yn disgrifio’r cynnydd ym mhob maes i’r Cynulliad heddiw. Ni allaf ond dod i’r casgliad na fu cymaint o gynnydd ag y dymunasai’r Gweinidog, ac na sicrhawyd y cyflawniadau disgwyliedig.

While I am not surprised that the Minister is refusing to support my amendments—specifically amendment 2, highlighting low teacher morale as a fundamental problem within the education service in Wales at the moment—the Government needs to wake up to several problems in the education system. Unless the problems that I will outline shortly are addressed, the extending entitlement agenda will not be achieved in the schools sector. The Minister’s bold ambitions in the report published two years ago will not be realised unless the Assembly Government resolves some of the fundamental and structural issues.

Er nad wyf yn synnu bod y Gweinidog yn gwrthod cefnogi fy ngwelliannau—a gwelliant 2 yn benodol, sy’n tynnu sylw at y morâl isel ymysg athrawon fel problem sylfaenol o fewn y gwasanaeth addysg yng Nghymru ar hyn o bryd—rhaid i’r Llywodraeth agor ei llygaid i sawl problem yn y system addysg. Os na roddir sylw i’r problemau a ddisgrifiaf gyda hyn, ni chyflawnir yr agenda ymestyn hawliau yn y sector ysgolion. Ni wireddir uchelgeisiau mentrus y Gweinidog yn yr adroddiad a gyhoeddwyd ddwy flynedd yn ôl os na wnaiff Llywodraeth y Cynulliad ddatrys rhai o’r materion sylfaenol a strwythurol.

I welcome some of the changes that have taken place thusfar, such as those concerning work-related education, personal and social education and the work done on promoting the citizenship agenda in schools. That is important and I support the Government wholeheartedly in that respect. However, if we want to involve young people in delivering this agenda, why did the Government refuse to insist that young people should be involved in local authorities’ young people’s partnerships? It seems obvious that if you establish a young people’s partnership, young people—heaven forbid—should take part. However, the Government at the time refused point blank to stipulate that young people should be part of those organisations. Representatives of local authorities, trade unions, police authorities and others are included—all the great and the good of Welsh society—but not those for whom this agenda was relevant. We need to offer more than platitudes to young people; they need to be involved more meaningfully. Involving them in young people’s partnerships was an obvious means of doing that.

Croesawaf rai o’r pethau a ddigwyddodd hyd yn hyn, fel y rhai sy’n ymwneud ag addysg sy’n gysylltiedig â gwaith, addysg bersonol a chymdeithasol a’r gwaith a wnaed i hyrwyddo’r agenda dinasyddiaeth mewn ysgolion. Mae hynny’n bwysig a chefnogaf y Llywodraeth yn llwyr yn hynny o beth. Er hynny, os ydym am gynnwys pobl ifanc yn y gwaith o gyflawni’r agenda hon, pam y gwrthododd y Llywodraeth fynnu bod pobl ifanc yn cymryd rhan ym mhartneriaethau pobl ifanc yr awdurdodau lleol? Mae’n ymddangos yn amlwg, os sefydlir partneriaeth pobl ifanc, y dylai pobl ifanc—na ato Duw—gymryd rhan. Fodd bynnag, ar y pryd yr oedd y Llywodraeth yn gwrthod yn llwyr ei wneud yn amod y dylai pobl ifanc gymryd rhan yn y cyrff hynny. Mae cynrychiolwyr awdurdodau lleol, undebau llafur, awdurdodau heddlu ac eraill wedi’u cynnwys—holl hoelion wyth cymdeithas yng Nghymru—ond nid y rhai yr oedd yr agenda hon yn berthnasol iddynt. Rhaid inni gynnig mwy nag ystrydebau i bobl ifanc; rhaid eu cynnwys mewn modd mwy ystyrlon. Yr oedd eu cynnwys mewn partneriaethau pobl ifanc yn fodd amlwg i wneud hynny.

I also regret, and am concerned about, the lack of firm targets emerging from the report published in 2000 and from any of the work done consequently. I refer specifically to the need to recruit high-quality teachers into the profession. One barrier to recruiting teachers is bureaucracy. The Government had another inquiry, another report, and yet another taskforce, but no firm targets for the reduction of school bureaucracy and no firm deadlines for the reduction of school paperwork were set. How can the Government achieve much of what is set out in its report unless it has firm targets and deadlines? People know that extra money is going into education, but it will not become investment unless we start seeing targets being met and results being achieved. We are not seeing those results.

Testun gofid sy’n peri pryder i mi hefyd yw nad oes unrhyw dargedau pendant yn deillio o’r adroddiad a gyhoeddwyd yn 2000 ac o unrhyw waith a wnaed o ganlyniad iddo. Cyfeiriaf yn benodol at yr angen i recriwtio athrawon o ansawdd da i’r proffesiwn. Un rhwystr i recriwtio athrawon yw biwrocratiaeth. Cafodd y Llywodraeth ymchwiliad arall, adroddiad arall, a thasglu arall eto, ond ni phennwyd unrhyw dargedau pendant ar gyfer lleihau biwrocratiaeth mewn ysgolion nac unrhyw ddyddiadau cwblhau ar gyfer lleihau’r gwaith papur mewn ysgolion. Sut y gall y Llywodraeth gyflawni llawer o’r hyn a nodir yn ei hadroddiad os nad oes ganddi dargedau a dyddiadau cwblhau pendant? Gŵyr pobl fod arian ychwanegol yn mynd at addysg, ond ni ddaw’n fuddsoddiad oni bai ein bod yn dechrau gweld cyrraedd targedau a chyflawni canlyniadau. Nid ydym yn gweld y canlyniadau hynny.

In chapter 4 of ‘Extending Entitlement’, there are three items in ‘The way ahead’ in point 4.11 that jump out at me because they are examples of where the Government has, unfortunately, failed to deliver. There is reference to the need to recruit and to retain high-quality teachers. We are unable to do that because, from studies, we know that roughly a third of the teaching profession intends leaving within the next five years. We know that we cannot recruit teachers because of poor pupil behaviour and that paperwork and bureaucracy are deterring many capable professionals from entering the teaching profession. As this report indicates, we would like schools to have a more flexible approach to the curriculum. However, until now, the Government has refused to allow any degree of flexibility in the delivery of the curriculum.

Ym mhennod 4 o ‘Ymestyn Hawliau’, mae tair eitem yn ‘Y ffordd ymlaen’ ym mhwynt 4.11 sy’n denu fy sylw am eu bod yn enghreifftiau o fethiant y Llywodraeth i fynd â’r maen i’r wal, gwaetha’r modd. Cyfeirir at yr angen i recriwtio a chadw athrawon o ansawdd da. Ni allwn wneud hynny oherwydd, ar sail astudiaethau, gwyddom fod tua un rhan o dair o athrawon yn bwriadu gadael o fewn y pum mlynedd nesaf. Gwyddom na allwn recriwtio athrawon oherwydd ymddygiad gwael disgyblion ac am fod gwaith papur a biwrocratiaeth yn digalonni llawer o weithwyr proffesiynol galluog rhag dod yn athrawon. Fel y noda’r adroddiad hwn, byddem yn hoffi i ysgolion gymryd agwedd fwy hyblyg at y cwricwlwm. Fodd bynnag, hyd yma, mae’r Llywodraeth wedi gwrthod caniatáu unrhyw raddau o hyblygrwydd wrth gyflwyno’r cwricwlwm.

The idea of a post-comprehensive system in Wales has fallen on deaf years, although the Prime Minister of the UK seems to think that it would work. In terms of supporting our teachers and working with pupils, how can we succeed when the Government has tied the hands of our headteachers who want to manage their schools according to local need? How can you say that teachers will work with the local community and their pupils when you are using targets to ensure that unsuitable pupils are returned to the classroom although teachers have said that they should not be there? How can we expect teachers and schools to meaningfully deliver for their communities, when your Government interferes in such a way?

Mae’r syniad o system ôl-gyfun yng Nghymru wedi syrthio ar glustiau byddar, er ei bod yn ymddangos bod Prif Weinidog y DU yn credu y byddai’n gweithio. Yng nghyd-destun cefnogi ein hathrawon a gweithio gyda disgyblion, sut y gallwn lwyddo pan fo’r Llywodraeth wedi clymu dwylo ein penaethiaid ysgol sydd am reoli eu hysgolion yn unol â’r angen lleol? Sut y gallwch ddweud y bydd athrawon yn gweithio gyda’r gymuned leol a’u disgyblion, a chithau’n defnyddio targedau i sicrhau bod disgyblion anaddas yn cael eu hanfon yn ôl i’r ystafell ddosbarth er bod athrawon wedi dweud na ddylent fod yno? Sut y gallwn ddisgwyl i athrawon ac ysgolion weithredu’n ystyrlon dros eu cymunedau, pan fo’ch Llywodraeth yn ymyrryd yn y fath fodd?

Finally, on the issue of funding, in the last four years we have seen increasing amounts of money being put into jam jars and into little schemes, but not enough money is being mainstreamed into school budgets. We have schools in Cardiff and beyond that are facing massive budget cuts and I suspect that, when we have your review of the funding formula, there will be further cuts. They will be unable to deliver the agenda on which this Assembly decides because they will not have enough mainstreamed money—

Yn olaf, ar fater cyllido, yn y pedair blynedd diwethaf gwelsom roi mwy a mwy o arian mewn potiau jam ac mewn cynlluniau bach, ond ni roddir digon o arian yn y brif ffrwd yng nghyllidebau ysgolion. Mae gennym ysgolion yng Nghaerdydd a’r tu hwnt sy’n wynebu cwtogi anferth ar eu cyllidebau ac yr wyf yn amau, pan gawn eich adolygiad o’r fformiwla cyllido, y bydd toriadau pellach. Ni fyddant yn gallu cyflawni’r agenda y mae’r Cynulliad hwn yn penderfynu arno am na fydd ganddynt ddigon o arian yn y brif ffrwd—

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 50

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 50

Order. Jonathan, your time is up. You have had more than an extra minute.

Trefn. Jonathan, mae’ch amser ar ben. Cawsoch fwy na munud ychwanegol.

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 50

Helen Mary Jones spoken in Welsh p. 50

Pan roddwyd yr adroddiad ‘Ymestyn Hawliau’ gerbron y Cynulliad am y tro cyntaf ar 2 Tachwedd 2000, yr oedd Plaid Cymru yn falch o gefnogi’r dull yr oedd y Llywodraeth yn bwriadu’i ddefnyddio i hybu’r agenda hon. Yr oedd y pwyslais ar hawl pobl ifanc i dderbyn gwasanaethau—yn hytrach nag ar weld y gwasanaethau fel ffyrdd o ddatrys problemau megis troseddu gan yr ifanc neu gyffuriau—yn cynrychioli ffordd o feddwl a gefnogwn yn gryf. Yr ydym yn barod hefyd i groesawu’r cynnydd a fu ers hynny mewn rhai meysydd penodol, er enghraifft y ffaith bod cyfrifoldeb statudol ar lywodraeth leol yng Nghymru i ddarparu gwasanaethau ieuenctid yn awr. Croesawn yr arian ychwanegol, er y bydd angen mwy ohono i wireddu pob nod yn ‘Ymestyn Hawliau’.

When the ‘Extending Entitlement’ report was placed before the Assembly for the first time on 2 November 2000, Plaid Cymru was pleased to support the way that the Government intended promoting this agenda. The emphasis on the right of young people to receive services—instead of on seeing the services as ways of solving problems such as youth crime or drugs—represented a way of thinking that we strongly support. We are also ready to support the progress made since then in some specific areas, including the fact that local government in Wales now has a statutory responsibility to provide services for young people. We welcome the additional funding, although more will be needed if we are to achieve every aim in ‘Extending Entitlement’.

Gan y credwn fod lle i groesawu rhai agweddau ar y gwaith a gwblhawyd eisoes, bwriadwn bleidleisio yn erbyn gwelliant 1 Jonathan Morgan, er ein bod yn parhau i bryderu am rai pethau sydd heb eu cyflawni eto. Cefnogwn welliant 2, gan ei bod yn wir dweud bod y gwaith o godi moral staff a grybwyllwyd yn ‘Ymestyn Hawliau’ naill ai heb ei wneud o gwbl neu fe fethodd yn llwyr. Mae unrhyw un sy’n ymweld ag unrhyw ysgol yn gwybod bod hynny’n wir.

As we believe that we should welcome some aspects of the work that has already been undertaken, we will vote against amendment 1 in the name of Jonathan Morgan, although we are still concerned about some things that are yet to be achieved. We will support amendment 2, because it is true to say that work to raise staff morale mentioned in ‘Extending Entitlement’ has either not been done or has completely failed. Anyone who visits any school knows this to be true.

Mae diffyg dychymyg y Llywodraeth yn rhwystr i gynnydd mewn llawer o feysydd. Rhaid i’r Gweinidog dderbyn, er y gwnaethpwyd llawer o bethau positif, bod angen gwneud mwy o lawer—clywsom ormod o hunan-longyfarch y prynhawn yma. Gofynnaf am ymateb y Gweinidog i ddau bwynt pwysig naill ai heddiw neu, os nad yw hynny’n bosibl, yn ysgrifenedig neu i’r Pwyllgor Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes. Mae’r ddau bwynt yn deillio o’r drafodaeth ar 2 Tachwedd 2000. Yn gyntaf, pasiwyd gwelliant a gyflwynwyd gan Blaid Cymru, a oedd yn gofyn am sicrhau bod plant a phobl ifanc yn cael cyfle i ddylanwadu ar y gwasanaethau a ddarperir ar eu cyfer. Fel y dywedodd Jonathan Morgan eisoes, mae’r Gweinidog wedi penderfynu peidio â mynnu bod partneriaethau pobl ifanc ar lefel llywodraeth leol yn cynnwys cynrychiolaeth uniongyrchol gan bobl ifanc. Credaf fod hynny’n gamgymeriad difrifol. Mae’n wir bod cynnwys pobl ifanc fel aelodau cyflawn o bartneriaethau ffurfiol yn her, ond mae’n bosibl.

The Government’s lack of imagination inhibits progress in many areas. The Minister must accept that, although many positive things have been done, there is much more to be done—we have heard too much self-congratulation this afternoon. I ask for the Minister’s response to two important points either today or, if that is not possible, in writing or to the Education and Lifelong Learning Committee. The two points arise from the discussion on 2 November 2000. First, a Plaid Cymru amendment was passed that requested assurance that children and young people would have a chance to influence the services provided for them. As Jonathan Morgan has already said, the Minister has decided not to insist that young people’s partnerships at a local government level include direct representation by young people. I believe that that is a serious mistake. It is true that including young people as full members of formal partnerships is a challenge, but it is possible.

Cyfeiriodd y Gweinidog at y broses o sefydlu swydd Comisiynydd Plant Cymru. Er y byddai’n dda o beth pe byddai’r Llywodraeth yn dangos tipyn mwy o barch at y comisiynydd yn awr ei fod wedi ei benodi, profodd y broses benodi ei bod yn bosibl cynnwys plant a phobl ifanc—rhai ohonynt yn fethedig—yn y broses ffurfiol o benodi person mor bwysig. Efallai y dylai’r Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes siarad â Jane Hutt er mwyn dysgu sut i wneud hynny.

The Minister referred to the process of establishing the post of Children’s Commissioner for Wales. Although it would be nice if the Government showed the commissioner a little more respect now that he has been appointed, the appointment process proved that it is possible to include children and young people—some of them handicapped—in the formal process of appointing such an important person. Perhaps the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning should talk to Jane Hutt so that she can learn how to do that.

Os nad yw’r Gweinidog yn fodlon ailystyried cynnwys plant a phobl ifanc yn y partneriaethau lleol yn swyddogol, gofynnaf iddi adrodd yn ôl naill ai i’r Cyfarfod Llawn neu i’r Pwyllgor ar sut y mae pob partneriaeth leol yn cynnwys barn plant a phobl ifanc. Mae’r adroddiadau anecdotaidd a glywaf yn awgrymu bod ymarfer yn amrywio’n fawr o sir i sir. Ceir enghreifftiau cadarnhaol, da ond ceir hefyd enghreifftiau lle nad ymddengys imi y gwneir unrhyw beth. Sut y mae’r Gweinidog yn sicrhau y gweithredir yr ymarfer gorau ledled Cymru?

If the Minister is not willing to reconsider officially including children and young people in local partnerships, I ask her to report back either to Plenary or to Committee on how each local partnership is including the views of children and young people. The anecdotal reports that I hear suggest that practice varies greatly from one county to the next. There are good, positive examples but there are also examples where I cannot see that anything is being done. How is the Minister ensuring that best practice is adhered to across Wales?

Yn ystod y ddadl y cyfeiriais ati eisoes, cyflwynodd Plaid Cymru welliant yn galw am sefydlu system statudol o gofnodi a fyddai’n sicrhau na fyddai pobl ifanc byth yn gallu diflannu o’r system addysg. Bu inni dynnu’r gwelliant yn ôl wedi i’r Gweinidog ein sicrhau ei bod yn barod i weithredu ar y mater, ond nad oedd am glymu’i dwylo ar y pryd o ran sut yn union y byddai’n gweithredu. Yr oedd hynny ddwy flynedd yn ôl. Dengys y ffigurau diweddaraf, a gyhoeddwyd ar 9 Ionawr, bod 30 y cant o bobl ifanc sy’n gadael cynlluniau’r Fargen Newydd yng Nghymru yn mynd i’r hyn a elwir yn ‘unknown destination’; hynny yw, cânt eu colli o’r system. A yw’r Gweinidog yn fodlon â’r sefyllfa hon? Ni chredaf ei bod. Hoffwn glywed sut y mae’n gweithredu ar yr addewid a roddodd inni ddwy flynedd yn ôl.

During the debate to which I have already referred, Plaid Cymru tabled an amendment calling for a statutory records system to be established that would ensure that young people could never disappear from the education system. We withdrew the amendment after the Minister assured us that she was ready to take action on the issue, but that she did not want to have her hands tied at that time with regard to the exact action that she would take. That was two years ago. The latest figures, published on 9 January, show that 30 per cent of young people who leave New Deal schemes go to what is classed as an ‘unknown destination’; that is, they are lost from the system. Is the Minister happy with this situation? I do not believe that she is. I would like to hear what action she is taking on the promise that she made to us two years ago.

Byddai wedi bod yn haws cynnal dadl ar y mater hwn ar sail adroddiad ysgrifenedig cyflawn, a gobeithiaf y bydd y Gweinidog yn barod i baratoi adroddiad o’r fath—i’r Pwyllgor o leiaf, os nad oes amser i baratoi adroddiad i’r Cynulliad cyfan. Yr ydym yn barod i groesawu’r cynnydd a wnaethpwyd ac i gefnogi’r cynnig. Fodd bynnag, wrth wneud hynny, galwn am waith pellach, yn enwedig yn y ddau faes y cyfeiriais atynt.

It would have been easier to debate this issue on the basis of a full written report, and I hope that the Minister will be willing to prepare such a report—for the Committee at least, if there is not time to prepare a report for the whole Assembly. We are willing to welcome the progress made and to support the motion. However, in doing so, we call for further work to be undertaken, particularly in the two areas to which I have referred.

Karen Sinclair spoken in English p. 52

Karen Sinclair siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52

As a former youth worker, I was excited by the publication of ‘Extending Entitlement’ in November 2000. The youth service in Wales, as well as other organisations involved in supporting young people, shared my excitement. The document set ambitious and much-needed aims and objectives for us to deliver for the young people of Wales.

Fel cyn-weithiwr ieuenctid, peth gwefreiddiol i mi oedd cyhoeddi ‘Ymestyn Hawliau’ yn Nhachwedd 2000. Yr oedd y gwasanaeth ieuenctid yng Nghymru, yn ogystal â chyrff eraill sy’n ymwneud â chynorthwyo pobl ifanc, yn teimlo’r un cyffro â minnau. Yr oedd y ddogfen yn gosod nodau ac amcanion uchelgeisiol a mawr eu hangen i’w cyflawni gennym er mwyn pobl ifanc Cymru.

More than a year later, ‘Extending Entitlement’ is starting to have a positive effect on youth provision. For many years, local authorities short-changed the youth service and prioritised other areas. Now, under the Assembly’s direction, they must respond to young people’s needs.

Ar ôl mwy na blwyddyn, mae ‘Ymestyn Hawliau’ yn dechrau cael effaith gadarnhaol ar y ddarpariaeth ieuenctid. Am flynyddoedd lawer, yr oedd awdurdodau lleol yn rhoi newid byr i’r gwasanaeth ieuenctid ac yn rhoi blaenoriaeth i feysydd eraill. Yn awr, o dan gyfarwyddyd y Cynulliad, rhaid iddynt ymateb i anghenion pobl ifanc.

With our commitment to joined-up thinking, we must ensure that these aims and objectives permeate all our policies on children and young people. I am delighted with the strong commitment to providing impartial careers advice in ‘Extending Entitlement’. The logical next step would be to reflect this commitment in our seven core aims. I ask Jane to comment on that.

Gan ein bod wedi ymrwymo i feddwl mewn ffordd cydgysylltiedig, rhaid inni sicrhau bod y nodau ac amcanion hyn yn hydreiddio ein holl bolisïau ar blant a phobl ifanc. Yr wyf wrth fy modd â’r ymrwymiad cadarn i ddarparu cyngor diduedd ar yrfaoedd yn ‘Ymestyn Hawliau’. Y cam rhesymegol nesaf fyddai adlewyrchu’r ymrwymiad hwn yn ein saith nod craidd. Gofynnaf i Jane wneud sylw am hynny.

More than a year later, ‘Extending Entitlement’ is making an impact. Improvements are now evident, and there is optimism within youth service departments. Focused and prioritised partnerships are being developed. Concerns have been raised about teething problems as these partnerships begin to evolve. I am pleased that the Minister has recognised these concerns and I am heartened to hear that the partnerships are now bedding down and that glitches are being ironed out. This is a natural result of a local needs-led approach.

Ar ôl mwy na blwyddyn, mae ‘Ymestyn Hawliau’ yn cael effaith. Mae gwelliannau’n amlwg bellach, ac mae hyder yn yr adrannau gwasanaeth ieuenctid. Datblygir partneriaethau sydd â chyfeiriad pendant a blaenoriaethau. Mynegwyd pryderon am drafferthion cychwynnol wrth i’r partneriaethau hyn ddechrau datblygu. Yr wyf yn falch bod y Gweinidog wedi cydnabod y pryderon hyn a chalonogol i mi yw clywed bod y partneriaethau’n dechrau ymsefydlu a bod y problemau’n cael eu datrys. Mae hyn yn ganlyniad naturiol i ddull gweithredu sy’n dilyn anghenion lleol.

A flexible approach, which is locally owned and driven, is essential. However, that does not mean that each partnership should work in isolation. I am sure that the Minister will agree that good practice should be shared. It would also be useful to produce a membership audit, so that we can monitor the situation and ensure that these groups function as the true partnerships that the Minster envisaged. The youth service is restructuring, and we are moving forward for the benefit of young people in Wales. Having worked in the discipline during its financial demise, I am delighted to see this re-evaluation and prioritisation for our young people.

Mae’n hollbwysig cael dull gweithredu hyblyg sydd mewn dwylo lleol ac sy’n cael ei ysgogi’n lleol. Fodd bynnag, nid yw hynny’n golygu y dylai pob partneriaeth weithio ar wahân. Yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd y Gweinidog yn cytuno y dylid rhannu arfer da. Byddai hefyd yn fuddiol cynnal archwiliad aelodaeth, fel y gallwn fonitro’r sefyllfa a sicrhau bod y grwpiau hyn yn gweithredu fel y gwir bartneriaethau a ragwelwyd gan y Gweinidog. Mae’r gwasanaeth ieuenctid yn ailstrwythuro, ac yr ydym yn symud ymlaen er budd pobl ifanc yng Nghymru. A minnau wedi gweithio yn y ddisgyblaeth honno yn ystod ei thranc ariannol, yr wyf wrth fy modd o weld yr ailwerthuso a blaenoriaethu hwn ar gyfer ein pobl ifanc.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 53

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 53

Cyfeiriaf yn gyffredinol at gyd-destun y ddadl hon, a gwnaf un sylw penodol am fudiad sy’n ceisio hybu cyfleoedd i bobl ifanc yng Nghymru. Mae tlodi ymysg pobl ifanc yn waeth yng Nghymru nag ydyw mewn unrhyw ran arall o’r Deyrnas Unedig. Mae 33 y cant o blant Cymru yn byw mewn cartrefi lle mae’r rhieni yn ennill llai na £145 yr wythnos, o gymharu â 30 y cant yn Lloegr a’r Alban. Yn ei adroddiad blynyddol cyntaf i’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, galwodd Comisynydd Plant Cymru y sefyllfa hon yn warth. Galwodd am strategaeth wrth-dlodi i ddatrys rhai o’r problemau. Beth a wnaiff y Gweinidog a’i chyd-Weinidogion i weithredu strategaeth o’r fath? Soniodd Helen Mary Jones am yr angen i wrando ar y Comisiynydd Plant. Gobeithiaf fod Llywodraeth Cymru yn bwriadu gwrando ar yr hyn a ddywedodd ef ac ymateb iddo.

I will refer generally to the context of this debate, and make one specific comment concerning an organisation that is trying to promote opportunities for young people in Wales. Poverty among young people is worse in Wales than in any other part of the United Kingdom. Thirty-three per cent of Wales’s children live in households where the parents earn less than £145 per week, compared with 30 per cent in England and Scotland. In his first annual report to the National Assembly, the Children’s Commissioner for Wales called this situation a disgrace. He called for an anti-poverty strategy to resolve these problems. What will the Minister and her fellow Ministers do to implement such a strategy? Helen Mary Jones referred to the need to listen to the Children’s Commissioner. I hope that the Government of Wales intends to listen to what he said and to respond to it.

Yn ystod y ddadl ar ymestyn hawliau ddwy flynedd yn ôl, dywedodd y Gweinidog fod hyrwyddo cyfleoedd i bobl ifanc yn fater o gyfle cyfartal. Cytunaf â hynny. Soniodd hefyd am dlodi profiadau a thlodi disgwyliadau fel materion y mae’n rhaid i’r Llywodraeth fynd i’r afael â hwy. Awgrymaf fod tlodi economaidd yn rhywbeth y mae’n rhaid i’r Llywodraeth fynd i’r afael ag ef hefyd. Pa strategaethau bynnag a roir ar waith i gynnig cyfleoedd i bobl ifanc, os nad ydynt mewn sefyllfa i fanteisio arnynt, yna mae’r strategaethau’n wastraff amser. Yn aml, mae cost yn gysylltiedig â manteisio ar y cyfleoedd hyn. Beth yn union a wnaiff Llywodraeth Cymru yn 2003 am y sefyllfa erchyll hon? Gobeithiaf y bydd yn cydnabod bod y bwlch rhwng y cyfoethog a’r tlawd yn ymledu yng Nghymru ar hyn o bryd. Pwy fyddai’n meddwl, chwe mlynedd wedi ethol Llywodraeth Lafur i San Steffan, y byddai’r bwlch rhwng y tlawd a’r cyfoethog yn ymledu yng Nghymru? Credais mai holl bwynt cael Llywodraeth Lafur oedd y byddai’n mynd i’r afael â’r problemau hyn. Serch hynny, ymddengys ei bod yn anwybyddu problem wirioneddol. Gobeithiaf y cawn ymrwymiad gan y Gweinidog ei bod o leiaf yn cydnabod y broblem hon ac yn cydnabod ei bod yn anghyfiawnder sylfaenol bod plant a phobl ifanc yn y fath amgylchiadau yng Nghymru, ac y bydd yn gwneud rhywbeth am y sefyllfa.

During the debate on extending entitlement two years ago, the Minister said that promoting opportunities for young people was a matter of equality of opportunity. I agree. She also mentioned poverty of experience and poverty of expectations as matters that the Government must tackle. I suggest that the Government must also tackle economic poverty. Whatever strategies are put in place to offer opportunities to young people, if they are not in a position to take advantage of them, then those strategies are a waste of time. Often, there is a cost attached to taking advantage of such opportunities. What exactly will the Government of Wales do in 2003 about this terrible situation? I hope that it will acknowledge that the gap between rich and poor in Wales is widening. Who would have thought that, six years after the election of a Labour Government in Westminster, the gap between rich and poor would be widening in Wales? I thought that the point of having a Labour Government was that it would tackle these problems. However, it appears that it is ignoring a real problem. I hope that the Minster will give a commitment that she, at least, acknowledges this problem and that it is a fundamental injustice that children and young people should be living in such circumstances in Wales, and that she will get to grips with the situation.

Cyfeiriaf yn awr at ardaloedd gwledig. Yn aml, yr unig fudiad sy’n cynnig cyfleodd i bobl ifanc yn yr ardaloedd hynny yw’r clybiau ffermwyr ifanc Cymru. Gobeithiaf y bydd y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes yn cydnabod cyfraniad y clybiau ffermwyr ifanc. Maent nid yn unig yn rhoi cyfle i bobl ifanc gymdeithasu, ond i arfer sgiliau fydd yn cyfoethogi eu bywydau, a chyfleoedd iddynt gymryd rhan yn gyhoeddus. Maent hefyd yn rhoi iddynt ymwybyddiaeth o natur eu cymunedau, yn ogystal ag ymwybyddiaeth o’r angen am gyfrifoldeb cymdeithasol. Gobeithiaf y gwnaiff Llywodraeth Cymru lawer mwy i gynnal y clybiau ffermwyr ifanc, drwy roi sicrwydd ffynonellau ariannol iddynt a thrwy annog awdurdodau lleol i gefnogi’r clybiau hyn yn y siroedd hynny y maent yn weithredol ynddynt, gan fod y gwaith a wneir ganddynt yn aruthrol o bwysig.

I will now refer to rural areas. Often, the only movement that offers opportunities to young people in those areas is the young farmers clubs of Wales. I hope that the Minster for Education and Lifelong Learning will acknowledge the contribution of young farmers clubs. They not only provide an opportunity for young people to socialise, but to practise skills that will enrich their lives, and opportunities for them to take part in public life. They also make them aware of the nature of their communities, as well as of the need for social responsibility. I hope that the Government of Wales will do much more to support young farmers clubs, by giving them certainty of funding and by encouraging local authorities to support these clubs in those counties where they are active, because the work that they do is incredibly important.

Felly, ar y ddau bwynt hynny, gobeithiaf y gall y Gweinidog fynd i’r afael â’r broblem sylfaenol o ran cyd-destun y drafodaeth hon. Bydd llawer o’r materion y sonia amdanynt yn amherthnasol i lawer o’r plant a’r bobl ifanc hyn os nad aiff i’r afael â phroblem sylfaenol tlodi. Dylai hefyd gydnabod pa mor bwysig yw’r clybiau ffermwyr ifanc mewn ardaloedd gwledig, a’r cyfleoedd a gynigiant i’n pobl ifanc.

Therefore, on those two points, I hope that the Minister will be able to tackle the fundamental problem relating to the context of this debate. Many of the matters that she talks about will be irrelevant to many of these children and young people unless she tackles the fundamental problem of poverty. She should also acknowledge the importance of young farmers clubs in rural areas, and of the opportunities that they offer our young people.

Janice Gregory spoken in English p. 55

Janice Gregory siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 55

I am delighted with the progress that has been made on the extending entitlement agenda. Everyone involved deserves our warmest praise and continued support. I will pay tribute to three organisations that have made a tremendous impact in my constituency in their work with young people.

Yr wyf wrth fy modd â’r cynnydd a wnaed ar yr agenda ymestyn hawliau. Mae pawb sy’n gysylltiedig yn haeddu ein canmoliaeth wresocaf a’n cefnogaeth barhaus. Talaf deyrnged i dri chorff a gafodd effaith aruthrol yn fy etholaeth i yn eu gwaith gyda phobl ifanc.

The first organisation is the Bridgend county youth service. I am glad that the Assembly has given the youth service in Wales a statutory basis. Given the excellent work done by the Bridgend youth service, I know that this will make a huge difference. I cannot emphasise enough the important role played by the staff of the youth service. They are dedicated professionals whom young people trust and respect. I have judged the borough’s annual talent competition—not an enviable task for anyone in terms of ranking the wealth of talent on show—and I have talked to young people involved in the borough’s youth council, who are keen to make their voices heard as active citizens. I know that none of that exciting work would be possible without a team of local leaders who are in touch with the needs of young people and their communities.

Y corff cyntaf yw gwasanaeth ieuenctid sirol Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr. Yr wyf yn falch bod y Cynulliad wedi rhoi sail statudol i’r gwasanaeth ieuenctid yng Nghymru. Yng ngolwg y gwaith rhagorol a wneir gan wasanaeth ieuenctid Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr, gwn y bydd hyn yn gwneud gwahaniaeth aruthrol. Ni allaf roi gormod o bwyslais ar y rôl bwysig a gyflawnir gan staff y gwasanaeth ieuenctid. Maent yn weithwyr proffesiynol ymroddedig y mae pobl ifanc yn eu parchu ac yn ymddiried ynddynt. Bûm yn feirniad yng nghystadleuaeth ddoniau flynyddol y fwrdeistref—nad yw’n orchwyl y byddai neb yn ei chwennych o ran gosod y cyfoeth o ddoniau a welwyd yn eu trefn—ac yr wyf wedi siarad â phobl ifanc sy’n ymwneud â chyngor ieuenctid y fwrdeistref, sy’n awyddus i gael gwrandawiad fel dinasyddion gweithredol. Gwn na fyddai dim o’r gwaith cyffrous hwnnw’n bosibl heb dîm o arweinyddion lleol sydd mewn cysylltiad ag anghenion pobl ifanc a’u cymunedau.

I will also mention the work of Cwm Ogwr Project for Youth, or COPY as it is known locally. This project has received substantial funding through the extending entitlement agenda. The work that it is able to do as a result is phenomenal. The project has recently opened a youth resource centre for young people in the Ogmore Valley, and is looking to expand even further in areas such as dance, drama and the performing arts. I hope that we can support this under our youth arts initiatives. I was encouraged by the Arts Council of Wales’s support—an organisation that I have accused of being elitist in the past—when I met the council’s chief executive with volunteers from COPY.

Soniaf hefyd am waith Prosiect Ieuenctid Cwm Ogwr, neu COPY fel y’i gelwir yn lleol. Mae’r prosiect hwn wedi cael cyllid sylweddol drwy’r agenda ymestyn hawliau. Mae’r gwaith y mae’n gallu ei wneud o ganlyniad i hynny’n rhyfeddol. Yn ddiweddar, mae’r prosiect wedi agor canolfan adnoddau ieuenctid ar gyfer pobl ifanc yng Nghwm Ogwr, ac mae’n ystyried ehangu ymhellach byth i feysydd fel dawns, drama a’r celfyddydau perfformio. Gobeithiaf y gallwn hybu hynny o dan ein mentrau celfyddydau ieuenctid. Fe’m calonogwyd gan y gefnogaeth a roddodd Cyngor Celfyddydau Cymru—corff yr wyf wedi’i gyhuddo o fod yn elitaidd yn y gorffennol—pan gyfarfûm â phrif weithredwr y cyngor gyda gwirfoddolwyr o COPY.

There is a similar initiative in Llanharan, where the success stories of the local drop-in centre include 16-year-old Ricky Evans, whose art work has been published in the young pavement artist of the year awards calendar 2003. That is a national award, and I was proud that one of my constituents had artwork published in this UK-wide calendar. This work would not be possible without the dedication and commitment of the youth workers and the local volunteers who give up so much of their time to support young people. I only wish there was more we could do to honour their achievements.

Mae menter debyg yn Llanharan, ac un o lwyddiannau’r ganolfan galw heibio yn y fan honno yw Ricky Evans, sy’n 16 mlwydd oed, y mae ei waith celf wedi’i gyhoeddi yng nghalendr gwobrau arlunydd palmant ifanc y flwyddyn ar gyfer 2003. Gwobr genedlaethol yw honno, ac yr oeddwn yn falch bod gwaith celf un o’m hetholwyr wedi’i gyhoeddi yn y calendr hwn i’r DU gyfan. Ni fyddai’r gwaith hwn yn bosibl oni bai am ymroddiad ac ymrwymiad y gweithwyr ieuenctid a’r gwirfoddolwyr lleol sy’n rhoi cymint o’u hamser i gynorthwyo pobl ifanc. Byddai’n dda gennyf pe bai mwy y gallem ei wneud i roi clod iddynt am eu cyflawniadau.

Finally, I will mention briefly a keep Wales tidy project in Llangynwyd, which involved pupils from Maesteg Comprehensive School, some of whom could be considered to be disengaged from academic education. They transformed a local riverbank into an area of environmental beauty and interest. That shows the cross-cutting nature of some of the work going on, which includes environmental projects, creative arts projects and performance arts projects, as well as tackling issues of disengagement from education and educational disaffection. I hope that we can consider this agenda as a whole, and bring together funding and expertise from different sources to recognise and build on the achievements and the potential of young people in Wales.

Yn olaf, soniaf yn fyr am brosiect cadw Cymru’n daclus yn Llangynwyd, a oedd yn cynnwys disgyblion o Ysgol Gyfun Maes-teg, y gellid ystyried bod rhai ohonynt wedi ymddieithrio oddi wrth addysg academaidd. Gwnaethant drawsnewid glannau afon leol yn ardal o harddwch a diddordeb amgylcheddol. Mae hynny’n dangos natur drawsbynciol rhywfaint o’r gwaith sy’n mynd ymlaen, sy’n cynnwys prosiectau amgylcheddol, prosiectau celfyddydau creadigol a phrosiectau celfyddydau perfformio, yn ogystal â mynd i’r afael â materion sy’n ymwneud ag ymddieithrio oddi wrth addysg a dadrithiad ag addysg. Gobeithiaf y byddwn yn gallu ystyried yr agenda hon yn ei chyfanrwydd, a dod â chyllid ac arbenigedd at ei gilydd o wahanol ffynonellau i gydnabod ac adeiladu ar sail cyflawniadau a photensial pobl ifanc yng Nghymru.

Mick Bates spoken in English p. 57

Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 57

The Welsh Liberal Democrats welcome this progress report on extending entitlement and the fact that Wales, through this agenda, is providing a lead within the European Union. An increasing focus on young people is desirable for the future of this nation. In a previous debate I spoke of the patronising attitude to young people in service provision by local authorities and the Government, and the top-down route for decision making so often displayed in local government. At the heart of ‘Extending Entitlement’ is the need for young people to be part of the decision-making process and to be empowered by adequate funding and by having a voice at the table and true partnership. All too often we talk the talk of partnership and co-operation, but we fail to crawl, let alone walk the walk. This document, and the progress made, demonstrates our commitment to be inclusive and walk the walk.

Mae Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru yn croesawu’r adroddiad hwn ar gynnydd ymestyn hawliau a’r ffaith bod Cymru, drwy’r agenda hon, yn rhoi arweiniad o fewn yr Undeb Ewropeaidd. Mae’n ddymunol cael mwy o bwyslais ar bobl ifanc er mwyn dyfodol y genedl hon. Mewn dadl flaenorol soniais am yr ymagwedd nawddoglyd at bobl ifanc yn y ddarpariaeth o wasanaethau gan awdurdodau lleol a’r Llywodraeth, a’r llwybr penderfynu o’r pen i lawr a welir mor aml mewn llywodraeth leol. Wrth graidd ‘Ymestyn Hawliau’ y mae’r angen i bobl ifanc fod yn rhan o’r broses penderfynu a chael eu galluogi drwy gyllid digonol a chael llais wrth y bwrdd a gwir bartneriaeth. Yn rhy aml o lawer, yr ydym yn sôn am bartneriaeth a chydweithredu, ond yr ydym yn methu â chropian, heb sôn am gerdded. Mae’r ddogfen hon, a’r cynnydd a wnaed, yn dangos ein hymrwymiad i fod yn gynhwysol ac i gerdded y ffordd honno.

I applaud my local authority, Powys, particularly Montgomeryshire, where partnerships have been established that involve young people who are elected representatives of organisations such as school councils, the Powys youth forum, the young farmers organisation and young carers. Empowerment is at the heart of Welsh Liberal Democrat beliefs, but partnership must not mean prescription. Innovation and diversity will be the hallmarks of success. What works in Merthyr might not work in Montgomery. However, there must be some consistency. Our Powys partnerships are committed to the United Nations’ convention on the rights of the child. I hope that you will encourage all authorities to make that commitment in forming partnerships. The Powys partnerships will have a checklist to monitor the impact on young people who use youth services in Powys. That work will be supported by a children’s rights officer and a youth forum worker.

Canmolaf fy awdurdod lleol, Powys, a Sir Drefaldwyn yn benodol, lle y sefydlwyd partneriaethau sy’n cynnwys pobl ifanc sy’n gynrychiolwyr etholedig i gyrff fel cynghorau ysgol, fforwm ieuenctid Powys, mudiad y ffermwyr ifanc a gofalwyr ifanc. Mae galluogi wrth graidd credoau Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru, ond ni chaiff partneriaeth olygu gorchymyn. Arloesi ac amrywiaeth fydd nodau amgen llwyddiant. Efallai na fydd yr hyn sy’n gweithio ym Merthyr Tudful yn gweithio yn Nhrefaldwyn. Er hynny, rhaid wrth rywfaint o gysondeb. Mae ein partneriaethau ym Mhowys wedi ymrwymo i gytundeb y Cenhedloedd Unedig ar hawliau’r plentyn. Gobeithiaf y byddwch yn annog pob awdurdod i ymrwymo felly wrth ffurfio partneriaethau. Bydd rhestr wirio gan y partneriaethau ym Mhowys i fonitro’r effaith ar bobl ifanc sy’n defnyddio gwasanaethau ieuenctid ym Mhowys. Ategir y gwaith hwnnw gan swyddog hawliau plant a gweithiwr fforwm ieuenctid.

Our role is to enable young people to have safe facilities that provide them with the opportunity for interaction and development. The Welsh Liberal Democrats believe that the use of sporting facilities is one way of helping young people to make the most of their ability and potential and to develop their interests, as well as to improve their health. Our paper, ‘Our Cultural Future’, which outlines our proposals for art, culture and sport, states our desire to work towards providing free access to sporting facilities run by Welsh local authorities for children up to the age of 16 and for students in further and higher education.

Ein rôl ni yw galluogi pobl ifanc i gael cyfleusterau diogel sy’n rhoi cyfle iddynt ryngweithio a datblygu. Mae Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru yn credu mai defnyddio cyfleusterau chwaraeon yw un modd i helpu pobl ifanc i wneud yn fawr o’u gallu a’u potensial ac i feithrin eu diddordebau, yn ogystal â gwella eu hiechyd. Mae ein papur, ‘Ein Dyfodol Diwylliannol’, sy’n amlinellu ein cynigion ar gyfer celfyddyd, diwylliant a chwaraeon, yn datgan ein hawydd i weithio i ddarparu mynediad am ddim i gyfleusterau chwaraeon sy’n cael eu rhedeg gan awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru ar gyfer plant hyd at 16 oed ac ar gyfer myfyrwyr mewn addysg bellach ac uwch.

Young people in rural Wales tend to suffer from the consequences of rural isolation, economic disadvantage and social exclusion. While the index of multiple deprivation predictably identified urban areas of deprivation, those indicators do not always show the levels of disadvantage experienced by those on low incomes in rural communities who also find it difficult to access services. We have some way to go to ensure that there is sufficient investment in community transport to enable young people to access important facilities, such as advocacy, health and the caring services.

Mae pobl ifanc yn y Gymru wledig yn tueddu i ddioddef canlyniadau arwahanrwydd gwledig, anfantais economaidd ac allgáu cymdeithasol. Er bod y mynegrif amddifadedd lluosog yn dynodi ardaloedd amddifadedd trefol, fel y gellid rhagweld, nid yw’r dangosyddion hynny bob amser yn dangos y graddau o anfantais a brofir gan y rhai ar incwm isel mewn cymunedau gwledig sydd hefyd yn ei chael yn anodd cael gwasanaethau. Mae gennym gryn waith i’w wneud eto i sicrhau buddsoddi digonol mewn trafnidiaeth gymunedol i alluogi pobl ifanc i ddefnyddio cyfleusterau pwysig, fel eiriolaeth, iechyd a’r gwasanaethau gofalu.

On that issue, we face our biggest challenge. We talk about co-operation at the table, but we also need greater co-operation between the various service providers—health services, social services and education departments—to implement many of our recommendations. How will we promote the breaking down of the silo mentality in local authorities so that they come to the table with an ethos of partnership, which will enable them to realise our desire to increase service delivery to all young people in Wales? The Welsh Liberal Democrats welcome the progress made on this report and look forward to a better future for our young people.

Ar y mater hwnnw yr ydym yn wynebu’r her fwyaf. Yr ydym yn sôn am gydweithredu wrth y bwrdd, ond mae arnom angen mwy o gydweithredu hefyd rhwng y gwahanol ddarparwyr gwasanaeth—gwasanaethau iechyd, gwasanaethau cymdeithasol ac adrannau addysg—i roi llawer o’n hargymhellion ar waith. Sut yr hyrwyddwn y gwaith o chwalu’r meddylfryd seilo mewn awdurdodau lleol fel eu bod yn dod at y bwrdd ag ethos o bartneriaeth, a fydd yn eu galluogi i gyflawni ein hawydd i gynyddu’r ddarpariaeth gwasanaeth ar gyfer pob person ifanc yng Nghymru? Mae Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru yn croesawu’r cynnydd a wnaed ar yr adroddiad hwn ac edrychwn ymlaen at well dyfodol i’n pobl ifanc.

Lorraine Barrett spoken in English p. 58

Lorraine Barrett siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 58

First, I say to Helen Mary Jones what I am about to say is not self-congratulatory. It acknowledges the excellent work done by young people who work with many partner organisations in our communities in taking forward the excellent extending entitlement agenda.

Yn gyntaf, dywedaf wrth Helen Mary Jones nad yw’r hyn yr wyf ar fin ei ddweud yn hunanglodforus. Mae’n cydnabod y gwaith rhagorol a wneir gan bobl ifanc sy’n gweithio gyda llawer o bartner gyrff yn ein cymunedau wrth fwrw ymlaen ag agenda ragorol ymestyn hawliau.

I would like to declare an interest as a director and vice chair of the Penarth Youth Project/Information Shop, because I am proud to be a part of that service. We were recently successful in securing our second lottery grant, which means that we will be able to provide a service for, but more importantly with, the young people of Penarth for another three years. We were successful in our second bid because we expanded and developed the original concept of the Penarth Youth Project. We now have a partnership agreement with the Vale of Glamorgan Council to deliver alternative education opportunities. Many of our young people are working on their Duke of Edinburgh awards; homework clubs have been set up, adventure weekends are organised and essential one-to-one counselling is now provided. We also hold a health clinic, in which young people can discuss sensitive issues such as sexual concerns and drug and alcohol issues. We have projects with the Prince’s Trust and many outreach projects, including one with St Cyres school. I pay tribute to that school, in which students are positively encouraged to play a proactive part in their community, helping others and thereby developing themselves as confident and more secure adults.

Hoffwn ddatgan buddiant fel is-gadeirydd ac un o gyfarwyddwyr Prosiect Ieuenctid/Siop Wybodaeth Penarth, oherwydd yr wyf yn falch o fod yn rhan o’r gwasanaeth hwnnw. Yn ddiweddar, llwyddasom i sicrhau ein hail grant loteri, sy’n golygu y byddwn yn gallu darparu gwasanaeth ar gyfer ond, yn bwysicach, gyda phobl ifanc Penarth am dair blynedd arall. Gwnaethom lwyddo yn ein hail gais am ein bod wedi ehangu a datblygu cysyniad gwreiddiol Prosiect Ieuenctid Penarth. Bellach mae gennym gytundeb partneriaeth gyda Chyngor Bro Morgannwg i gynnig cyfleoedd addysg gwahanol. Mae llawer o’n pobl ifanc yn gweithio ar gyfer gwobrau Dug Caeredin; sefydlwyd clybiau gwaith cartref, trefnir penwythnosau antur ac mae cynghori un-i-un hanfodol bellach yn cael ei ddarparu. Yr ydym hefyd yn cynnal clinig iechyd, lle y gall pobl ifanc drafod materion sensitif fel pryderon rhywiol a materion sy’n ymwneud ag alcohol a chyffuriau. Mae gennym brosiectau gydag Ymddiriedolaeth y Tywysog a llawer o brosiectau gwaith allanol, gan gynnwys un gydag ysgol Sant Cyres. Talaf deyrnged i’r ysgol honno, lle y caiff myfyrwyr eu hannog i chwarae rhan ragweithiol yn eu cymuned, gan helpu eraill a thrwy hynny eu datblygu eu hunain i fod yn oedolion hyderus a mwy sicr.

The young people at Penarth information shop have their own ‘funkymittee’ or ‘fun committee’, in which they discuss and decide upon their activities. It gets involved with many community activities in Penarth, including the holiday festival and switching on the various Christmas lights, and provides a service to younger people in schools as well as to Penarth’s older residents.

Mae gan y bobl ifanc yn siop wybodaeth Penarth eu ‘funkymittee’ neu bwyllgor hwyl eu hunain, lle y maent yn trafod ac yn penderfynu ar eu gweithgareddau. Mae’n cymryd rhan mewn llawer o weithgareddau cymunedol ym Mhenarth, gan gynnwys yr ŵyl gwyliau a chynnau gwahanol oleuadau Nadolig, ac yn darparu gwasanaeth ar gyfer pobl ifanc mewn ysgolion yn ogystal â thrigolion hŷn Penarth.

In all of the work done at the information shop, ‘Extending Entitlement’ is used as our bible, almost. It has become a household phrase there. We will continue to take forward this agenda with young people. You need only come to the shop at any time, Minister, to see how successful the work is.

Yn yr holl waith a wneir yn y siop wybodaeth, defnyddir ‘Ymestyn Hawliau’ fel ein beibl, bron. Daeth yn ymadrodd pob dydd yn y fan honno. Parhawn i fwrw ymlaen â’r agenda hon gyda phobl ifanc. Nid oes ond rhaid ichi ddod i’r siop ar unrhyw adeg, Weinidog, i weld mor llwyddiannus yw’r gwaith.

Finally, does the Minister know how many schools have taken up the offer of having the excellent ‘Canllaw’ handbook for young people? I know of one comprehensive in Penarth that has refused to take it, but I hasten to add that it is not St Cyres School.

Yn olaf, a yw’r Gweinidog yn gwybod pa sawl ysgol sydd wedi derbyn y cynnig i gael y llawlyfr ‘Canllaw’ rhagorol ar gyfer pobl ifanc? Gwn am un ysgol gyfun ym Mhenarth sydd wedi ei wrthod, ond prysuraf i ychwanegu nad Ysgol Sant Cyres yw honno.

Jane Davidson The Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning spoken in English p. 60

Jane Davidson Y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 60

I thank all the contributors. I emphasise from the outset that this debate is about the broad extending entitlement agenda. When I went through the issues raised by young people, they cut across all Cabinet responsibilities. The agenda is very much about support for young people. Therefore, issues surrounding schools and teachers are a tiny part of the overall agenda, which is about how the Assembly Government, the Assembly, local authorities, and other agencies across Wales engage with young people and take better account of young people’s views in planning services.

Diolchaf i’r holl gyfranwyr. Pwysleisiaf ar y dechrau fod y ddadl hon yn ymwneud â’r agenda ymestyn hawliau gyffredinol. Pan euthum drwy’r materion a godwyd gan bobl ifanc, gwelais eu bod yn torri ar draws holl gyfrifoldebau’r Cabinet. Cymorth i bobl ifanc yw prif fyrdwn yr agenda. Gan hynny, nid yw materion sy’n ymwneud ag ysgolion ac athrawon ond yn rhan fach iawn o’r agenda gyffredinol, sy’n ymdrin â’r modd y mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad, y Cynulliad, awdurdodau lleol, ac asiantaethau eraill ledled Cymru yn ymwneud â phobl ifanc ac yn rhoi gwell sylw i farn pobl ifanc wrth gynllunio gwasanaethau.

We have bold ambitions, and I am grateful that that was recognised. I am also grateful for your recognition of the importance of work-related education, personal and social education, and how we consider issues surrounding citizenship in the education system. That is important in terms of our wider agenda of supporting and offering the right kind of opportunities to young people. I reject the suggestion that we are inflexible in our approach. When the European Commission acknowledges a Government initiative from a region of a member state and uses it as an example of best practice, it is churlish of someone like Jonathan, who was part of the political process, not to welcome it. I am grateful for Helen Mary’s recognition of the work done. In fact, it was not done by members of this Government but by young people, who have told us that we are developing the right kind of participation agenda.

Mae ein huchelgeisiau’n rhai mentrus, ac yr wyf yn ddiolchgar bod cydnabyddiaeth i hynny. Yr wyf hefyd yn ddiolchgar eich bod yn cydnabod pwysigrwydd addysg sy’n gysylltiedig â gwaith, addysg bersonol a chymdeithasol, a’r modd yr ydym yn ystyried materion sy’n ymwneud â dinasyddiaeth yn y system addysg. Mae hynny’n bwysig yng nghyd-destun ein hagenda ehangach o gefnogi a chynnig y math iawn o gyfleoedd i bobl ifanc. Gwrthodaf yr awgrym bod ein dull gweithredu’n un anhyblyg. Pan fo’r Comisiwn Ewropeaidd yn cydnabod menter gan Lywodraeth mewn rhanbarth o aelod wladwriaeth ac yn ei defnyddio’n enghraifft o’r arfer gorau, peth anfoesgar gan rywun fel Jonathan, a oedd yn rhan o’r broses wleidyddol, yw peidio â’i chroesawu. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i Helen Mary am gydnabod y gwaith a wnaed. Mewn gwirionedd, nid aelodau o’r Llywodraeth hon a’i gwnaeth ond pobl ifanc, a ddywedodd wrthym ein bod yn datblygu’r math iawn o agenda ar gyfer cyfranogi.

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 60

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 60

I would be happy to welcome a progress report, had we had received a full progress report. We debated ‘Extending Entitlement’ when it was published, but we have received no further information to date as to how the agenda outlined in it is being taken forward. I cannot see what we are here to welcome; you have announced nothing new this afternoon. This debate has merely been about a report published almost three years ago. I would happily welcome it, were there something to welcome.

Byddwn yn falch o groesawu adroddiad ar gynnydd, pe byddem wedi cael adroddiad llawn ar gynnydd. Cawsom ddadl ar ‘Ymestyn Hawliau’ pan gyhoeddwyd ef, ond ni chawsom unrhyw wybodaeth bellach hyd yma am y modd y bwrir ymlaen â’r agenda a ddisgrifiwyd ynddo. Ni allaf weld beth yr ydym i’w groesawu; nid ydych wedi cyhoeddi unrhyw beth newydd y prynhawn yma. Y cwbl a drafodwyd yn y ddadl hon yw adroddiad a gyhoeddwyd ymron i dair blynedd yn ôl. Byddwn yn falch o’i groesawu, pe byddai rhywbeth i’w groesawu.

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 61

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 61

That merely demonstrates that you have not listened. Your definition of progress is having a new announcement. My definition of progress is putting the right strategy in place—as we did when we had all-party support for ‘Extending Entitlement’—putting the right resources in place and getting on with the job, which is what we have been doing.

Nid yw hynny ond yn dangos na fu ichi wrando. Eich diffiniad chi o gynnydd yw cael cyhoeddiad newydd. Fy niffiniad i o gynnydd yw rhoi’r strategaeth iawn ar waith—fel y gwnaethom pan gawsom gefnogaeth gan bob plaid i ‘Ymestyn Hawliau’—rhoi’r adnoddau iawn ar waith a mynd ymlaen â’r gwaith, a dyna a wnaethom.

In this progress report—and it is very much a progress report—we show that, across Wales, we now have young people’s partnerships in all local authority areas. The directions were in place from September 2002. In parallel with those young people’s partnerships, we have youth fora. Helen Mary Jones rightly raised the issue of how, if we did not take the view that a young person had to be on the partnership, we could ensure that young people’s voices were properly heard. To that end, 19 youth fora are now in place across Wales, with three remaining to be established. They are a clear mechanism to bring together all young people in local areas, enabling them to express their views to young people’s partnerships.

Yn yr adroddiad hwn ar gynnydd—ac adroddiad ar gynnydd ydyw’n bendant—dangoswn fod gennym bartneriaethau pobl ifanc bellach, ledled Cymru, ym mhob ardal awdurdod lleol. Mae’r cyfarwyddiadau’n gweithredu ers Medi 2002. Ochr yn ochr â’r partneriaethau pobl ifanc hynny, mae gennym fforymau ieuenctid. Yr oedd Helen Mary Jones yn iawn i godi mater y modd y gallem sicrhau gwrandawiad priodol i lais pobl ifanc, os nad oeddem o’r farn y dylai person ifanc fod yn y bartneriaeth. I’r perwyl hwnnw, mae 19 o fforymau ieuenctid wedi’u sefydlu bellach ledled Cymru, ac mae tri ar ôl i’w sefydlu. Maent yn beirianwaith pendant i ddod â’r holl bobl ifanc mewn ardaloedd lleol at ei gilydd, gan eu galluogi i gyfleu eu barn i bartneriaethau pobl ifanc.

Helen Mary Jones a gododd—

Helen Mary Jones rose—

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 61

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 61

I will just finish this point, and then I will be happy to take an intervention. Young people’s partnerships are required to plan how they will engage with young people in the local area. That can be clearly demonstrated.

Gorffennaf y pwynt hwn, a byddaf yn fodlon derbyn ymyriad wedyn. Mae’n ofynnol i bartneriaethau pobl ifanc gynllunio sut y byddant yn ymwneud â phobl ifanc yn yr ardal leol. Gellir dangos hynny’n eglur.

To pick up your point on the amendment that you kindly withdrew during the previous debate on extending entitlement, we will ask the young person’s partnerships to plan for the 10 per cent of young people who currently disappear from the education system. The number of young people who do not continue with education, training or employment after the age of 16 is now at its lowest level ever. However, those people must not be lost to the extending entitlement agenda.

Gan godi’r pwynt a wnaethoch am y gwelliant y buoch mor garedig â’i dynnu’n ôl yn ystod y ddadl flaenorol ar ymestyn hawliau, gwnawn ofyn i’r partneriaethau pobl ifanc gynllunio ar gyfer y 10 y cant o bobl ifanc sy’n diflannu o’r system addysg ar hyn o bryd. Mae’r nifer o bobl ifanc nad ydynt yn parhau ag addysg, hyfforddiant neu gyflogaeth ar ôl 16 oed ar ei isaf erioed. Er hynny, rhaid peidio â gadael y bobl hynny allan o’r agenda ymestyn hawliau.

Helen Mary Jones spoken in English p. 62

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 62

I am aware of the work of the youth fora, but I remain concerned that the link between the youth partnerships and the youth fora, and other mechanisms for consulting young people, varies. You would expect developments to vary, but will you commit to bringing a detailed report to Committee when you can—hopefully before the election—to show where there is positive development, where gaps exist and to explain how you are spreading best practice? If young people are not going to be formal representatives on partnerships, we need clear mechanisms to ensure that young people are not expressing views only to be ignored.

Yr wyf yn ymwybodol o waith y fforymau ieuenctid, ond yr wyf yn bryderus o hyd fod y cyswllt rhwng y partneriaethau ieuenctid a’r fforymau ieuenctid, a mecanweithiau eraill ar gyfer ymgynghori â phobl ifanc yn amrywio. Byddech yn disgwyl i ddatblygiadau amrywio, ond a wnewch ymrwymo i ddod ag adroddiad manwl i’r Pwyllgor pan allwch—cyn yr etholiad, gobeithio—i ddangos ym mhle y mae datblygu cadarnhaol, lle y mae bylchau ac i egluro sut yr ydych yn lledaenu’r arfer gorau? Os na fydd pobl ifanc yn gynrychiolwyr ffurfiol ar bartneriaethau, rhaid inni gael mecanweithiau pendant i sicrhau nad yw pobl ifanc yn mynegi barn, ac yn cael eu hanwybyddu wedyn.

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 62

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 62

That is right. We had a long discussion about this during consultation, and it was also the view expressed by young people. We are trying to get chief executives of housing organisations, health services, local authorities, the police and so on to review their provision of services. We did not want to put a token young person on the young people’s partnerships and leave them unprotected, as it were, in that environment. I am pleased that some of the more developed young people’s partnerships are actively engaging with young people and have young people on them. That is a positive development. However, young people also need the comfort of developing their views alongside other young people. That is why we want to link the youth partnerships with the youth fora.

Mae hynny’n gywir. Cawsom drafodaeth hir am hyn yn ystod yr ymgynghori, a dyna’r farn a fynegwyd gan bobl ifanc hefyd. Yr ydym yn ceisio cael gan brif weithredwyr cyrff tai, gwasanaethau iechyd, awdurdodau lleol, yr heddlu ac yn y blaen adolygu eu darpariaeth o wasanaethau. Nid oeddem am ymaelodi person ifanc symbolaidd yn y partneriaethau pobl ifanc a’i adael yn ddiymgeledd, fel petai, yn yr amgylchedd hwnnw. Yr wyf yn falch bod rhai o’r partneriaethau pobl ifanc mwy datblygedig yn ymwneud yn weithredol â phobl ifanc a bod pobl ifanc yn aelodau ohonynt. Mae hynny’n ddatblygiad cadarnhaol. Er hynny, mae ar bobl ifanc angen y cysur hefyd o gael datblygu eu barn ochr yn ochr â phobl ifanc eraill. Dyna pam yr ydym am gysylltu’r partneriaethau ieuenctid â’r fforymau ieuenctid.

I am grateful to those Members who have spoken of the optimism that exists. I certainly notice it when I meet young people who are involved in this agenda. They feel that adults in Wales are listening to their concerns; we must take that forward. I pay tribute to Members who have outlined the specific services in which they have a great deal of confidence. Every Member, had they done the research and been able to contribute to this debate, could have done the same, because good practice exists in every part of Wales in relation to this agenda. I suggest that Members go into their local community, look at what is happening in youth services and talk to young people about this agenda.

Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i’r Aelodau hynny sydd wedi sôn am yr hyder a geir. Yr wyf yn sicr yn sylwi arno pan gyfarfyddaf â phobl ifanc sy’n gysylltiedig â’r agenda hon. Teimlant fod oedolion yng Nghymru’n gwrando ar eu pryderon; rhaid inni fwrw ymlaen â hynny. Talaf deyrnged i Aelodau sydd wedi disgrifio’r gwasanaethau penodol y maent yn ymddiried yn fawr ynddynt. Byddai pob Aelod, pe byddai wedi ymchwilio a gallu cyfrannu i’r ddadl hon, wedi gallu gwneud yr un fath, oherwydd ceir arferion da ym mhob rhan o Gymru mewn cysylltiad â’r agenda hon. Awgrymaf y dylai Aelodau fynd i’w cymuned leol, edrych ar yr hyn sy’n digwydd mewn gwasanaethau ieuenctid a siarad â phobl ifanc am yr agenda hon.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 63

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 63

Order. You need to wind-up now.

Trefn. Rhaid ichi derfynu’n awr.

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 63

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 63

Karen said that it is key that this is a local, needs-led approach. That is why we invested £20,000 for voluntary sector young people’s work in every local authority area, and why local authorities are facilitating, though not leading, this process. We must all engage in this agenda for the benefit of young people in Wales.

Dywedodd Karen ei bod yn allweddol mai dull gweithredu lleol sy’n deillio o anghenion yw hwn. Dyna pam y gwnaethom fuddsoddi £20,000 ar gyfer gwaith pobl ifanc yn y sector gwirfoddol ym mhob ardal awdurdod lleol, a pham y mae awdurdodau lleol yn hwyluso, er nad yn arwain, y broses hon. Rhaid i bob un ohonom gymryd rhan yn yr agenda hon er budd pobl ifanc yng Nghymru.

Gwelliant 1 Jonathan Morgan t. 63

Amendment 1 Jonathan Morgan p. 63

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 8 YmatalAbstain 1 Yn erbynAgainst 42

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment rejected.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (8)
  • Nick Bourne
  • Alun Cairns
  • David Davies
  • William Graham
  • David Ian Jones
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Peter Rogers
YmatalAbstain (1)
  • Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (42)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Alison Halford
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Kirsty Williams

Gwelliant 2 Jonathan Morgan t. 64

Amendment 2 Jonathan Morgan p. 64

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 21 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 30

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment rejected.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (21)
  • Nick Bourne
  • Alun Cairns
  • Cynog Dafis
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • William Graham
  • David Ian Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (30)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Alison Halford
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

Cynnig NDM1286 Jane Davidson t. 64

Motion NDM1286 Jane Davidson p. 64

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 43 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 8

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (43)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Alison Halford
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (8)
  • Nick Bourne
  • Alun Cairns
  • David Davies
  • William Graham
  • David Ian Jones
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Peter Rogers

Dadl Plaid Leiafrifol (Plaid Cymru)

Minority Party Debate (Plaid Cymru)

Y Llywodraeth Glymblaid

The Coalition Government

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 65

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 65

I have selected amendment 1 in the name of Jonathan Morgan.

Yr wyf wedi dethol gwelliant 1 yn enw Jonathan Morgan.

Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 65

Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in Welsh p. 65

Cynigiaf fod

I propose that

Ieuan Wyn Jones (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 65

Ieuan Wyn Jones (continued) spoken in Welsh and English p. 65

Mae’n bleser gennyf gynnig y cynnig hwn. Ni fyddwn yn cefnogi gwelliant y Ceidwadwyr, gan na theimlwn ei fod yn ychwanegu at y cynnig. Nid beirniadu’r syniad o glymblaid mewn egwyddor yr ydym, ond methiant y glymblaid i gyflawni ar ran pobl Cymru.

in Welsh It is with great pleasure that I propose this motion. We will vote against the Conservative amendment because it does not add to the motion. We are not criticising the idea of a coalition in principle, but its failure to deliver on behalf of the people of Wales.

Etholwyd Rhodri Morgan yn Brif Weinidog Cymru ar 15 Chwefror 2000. Pan ddaeth i’w swydd, yr oedd gradd sylweddol o ewyllys da tuag ato, nid yn unig gan Aelodau’r Cynulliad o bob plaid, ond gan bobl Cymru. Wythnos ynghynt, yr oedd Alun Michael wedi colli pleidlais o ddiffyg hyder, wedi naw mis anodd tu hwnt yn y swydd. Yn ychwanegol ar yr holl ewyllys da tuag at ddechreuad newydd, yr oedd cryn ryddhad hefyd: yr oedd fel pe bai cwmwl du wedi codi. Yr oedd cyfle i symud ymlaen yn hyderus. Yr oedd geiriau’r Prif Weinidog wrth dderbyn y swydd yn hynod addawol:

in Welsh Rhodri Morgan was elected First Minister of Wales on 15 February 2000. When he took office, a substantial degree of goodwill existed towards him, not only from Assembly Members of all parties but from the people of Wales. In the previous week, Alun Michael had lost a vote of no confidence, after an extremely difficult nine months in post. In addition to the goodwill that existed for a new start, there was a great deal of relief: it was as if a black cloud had lifted. There was an opportunity to move forward confidently. The First Minister’s words in accepting the post were extremely promising:

‘Credaf yng ngrym democratiaeth i wella bywydau ein pobl yng Nghymru…dylem weithio â’n gilydd i weld beth y gallwn ei wneud i weithio’n well drostynt i gyd.’

in Welsh ‘I believe in the power of democracy to improve the lives of our people in Wales… we should work together to see what we can do to work better for them all.’

Dywedodd hefyd:

in Welsh He also said:

‘To ensure that voters take the interest that they should in what is the only institution that delivers for the people of Wales, we must connect with them and provide the services that they want.’

yn Saesneg ‘Er mwyn sicrhau bod etholwyr yn ymddiddori fel y dylent yn yr unig sefydliad sydd yn cyflawni dros bobl Cymru, rhaid inni gysylltu â hwy a darparu’r gwasanaethau y mae arnynt eu hangen.’

O fewn naw mis arall, yr oedd wedi penderfynu mai drwy sefydlu clymblaid gyda’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yr oedd am gyflawni ar ran pobl Cymru. Nid wyf am ei feirniadu am gymryd y penderfyniad hwnnw; wedi’r cwbl, yr oedd wedi gweld yr hyn a ddigwyddodd i’w ragflaenydd a geisiodd lywodraethu heb fwyafrif. Yn y ddadl heddiw, record y glymblaid sydd dan y chwyddwydr, a record y Prif Weinidog fel capten y tîm.

in Welsh Within a further nine months, he decided that he would deliver for the people of Wales through establishing a coalition with the Liberal Democrats. I will not criticise him for taking that decision; after all he had seen what had happened to his predecessor who had endeavoured to govern without a majority. In today’s debate, it is the coalition’s record that is under the microscope, and the First Minister’s record as team captain.

Er yr ewyllys da ar ddechrau’r daith, teimlad o siom enfawr sy’n bodoli ddwy flynedd a thri mis yn ddiweddarach. Methu â chyflawni y mae’r glymblaid: ar yr economi, ar iechyd ac ar y gwasanaethau cyhoeddus. Methodd â defnyddio’r Cynulliad fel corff cenedlaethol go iawn: cafodd ei ddefnyddio fel rhyw gyngor sir mawr, yn hytrach na fel corff cenedlaethol a fyddai’n llais i ddyheadau’r genedl.

in Welsh Despite the goodwill that existed at the start of the journey, a feeling of major disappointment exists two years and three months later. The coalition has failed to deliver: on the economy, on health and on public services. It has failed to utilise the Assembly as a truly national body: the Assembly has been used as a large county council rather than a national body that would express the aspirations of the nation.

Arwydd clir o hynny oedd y broses i benderfynu ar enw i’r Llywodraeth. Yr enw amlwg oedd ‘Llywodraeth Cymru’. Beth arall allai fod? O na, nid oedd Tony Blair yn hapus â hynny. Yn hytrach na herio Tony Blair, rhaid oedd dewis enw arall. A dyma ni’n cael WAG: Welsh Assembly Government. Er bod ‘WAG’ yn ddisgrifiad eithaf teg o record y Llywodraeth hon, mae’r enw yn sen go fawr ar awdurdod y Llywodraeth. Mae defnyddio’r term yn enghraifft o sut mae’r glymblaid wedi bychanu’r Cynulliad—nid oes rhyfedd bod pobl Cymru yn teimlo bod Llywodraeth y Cynulliad wedi tangyflawni.

in Welsh A clear indication of that was the process to determine the Government’s name. The obvious choice was the ‘Government of Wales’. What else could it have been? But no, Tony Blair was not happy with that. Rather than challenge Tony Blair, another name had to be found. So we got WAG: the Welsh Assembly Government. Although ‘WAG’ is a fair description of the Government’s record, it is an insult to this Government’s authority. The use of such a term is an example of how the coalition has belittled the Assembly. It is little wonder that the people of Wales feel that the Assembly Government has underperformed.

The First Minister has repeatedly told us that he wants to be judged on his record. He is in the dock of public opinion today and he and his Government have been found wanting. Let us consider the health service: the record is truly appalling. Labour made fine pledges, as we have heard today, when it launched its manifesto for the 1999 election. There were no ‘ifs’ and ‘buts’ then. It proudly announced that, at the end of the first Assembly term, no-one would wait more than six months for their first out-patient treatment. In 1999, the figure was 21,828: now it is 82,574. It said that no-one would have to wait more than 18 months for in-patient treatment. In 1999, the number stood at 2,197: now it is 4,715. It is not just missing targets, these are catastrophic failures condemning thousands to wait in pain and misery. The Government should be thoroughly ashamed of itself. It should at the very least admit it was wrong. But no, New Labour never admits that it is wrong. Estelle Morris was a singular and honourable exception. When the First Minister was asked to apologise for these obvious failures, he actually blamed people for getting ill. That is a bit sick; blaming the ill for the Government’s failings.

yn Saesneg Mae’r Prif Weinidog wedi dweud wrthym dro ar ôl tro ei fod yn dymuno cael ei farnu yn ôl ei record. Mae’n cael ei farnu gerbron y cyhoedd heddiw a chafwyd ef a’i Lywodraeth yn brin. Gadewch inni ystyried y gwasanaeth iechyd: mae’r record yn wirioneddol warthus. Gwnaeth Llafur addewidion teg, fel y clywsom heddiw, pan lansiodd ei faniffesto ar gyfer etholiad 1999. Nid oedd unrhyw ‘os’ neu ‘oni bai’ bryd hynny. Cyhoeddodd yn dalog na fyddai neb, ar ddiwedd tymor cyntaf y Cynulliad, yn disgwyl mwy na chwe mis am ei driniaeth gyntaf fel claf allanol. Yn 1999, y ffigur oedd 21,828: yn awr mae’n 82,574. Dywedodd na fyddai neb yn gorfod aros mwy na 18 mis am driniaeth fel claf mewnol. Yn 1999, y nifer oedd 2,197: yn awr mae’n 4,715. Nid mater o fethu â chyrraedd targedau yn unig ydyw, methiannau trychinebus yw’r rhain sy’n gorfodi miloedd i aros mewn poen a gofid. Dylai’r Llywodraeth fod â chywilydd mawr. Dylai o leiaf gyfaddef y bu’n anghywir. Ond nage, nid yw Llafur Newydd byth yn cydnabod ei fod yn anghywir. Yr oedd Estelle Morris yn un eithriad anrhydeddus. Pan ofynnwyd i’r Prif Weinidog ymddiheuro am y methiannau amlwg hyn, rhoddodd y bai ar bobl am fynd yn sâl. Mae hynny braidd yn ddi-chwaeth: rhoi’r bai ar y rhai gwael eu hiechyd am fethiannau’r Llywodraeth.

In addition to the Government’s failures on waiting lists and waiting times the health service faces other massive problems. The number of national health service beds has gone down every year since the Assembly came into being—a drop of almost 300 over the period. However the Government tries to wriggle, the plain fact is that there are now fewer full-time general practitioners in Wales, many of whom are nearing retirement. In Gwent, for example, 25 per cent of GPs are aged over 55. At present there are vacancies for 130 GPs in Wales, which amounts to 7 per cent of the total workforce. Many rural and Valley practices simply cannot recruit young doctors. In July 2000, we heard that practices in Cardiff were finding it difficult to recruit. It has been calculated that we need to train at least 200 doctors a year to replace those leaving or retiring: we are currently training 120. Many more GPs are retiring early because of the increasing bureaucratic burden placed on them by this Government and by Westminster.

yn Saesneg Yn ogystal â methiannau’r Llywodraeth ar restrau aros ac amseroedd aros, mae’r gwasanaeth iechyd yn wynebu problemau anferth eraill. Mae’r nifer o welyau yn y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol wedi gostwng bob blwyddyn ers sefydlu’r Cynulliad—gostyngiad o bron 300 dros y cyfnod. Pa faint bynnag y mae’r Llywodraeth yn ceisio dianc ohoni, y ffaith syml yw bod llai o ymarferwyr cyffredinol llawn-amser yng Nghymru’n awr, a bod llawer ohonynt yn agos at ymddeol. Yng Ngwent, er enghraifft, mae 25 y cant o’r meddygon teulu dros 55 oed. Ar hyn o bryd mae 130 o swyddi gwag ar gyfer meddygon teulu yng Nghymru, sy’n gymaint â 7 y cant o’r gweithlu cyfan. Mae llawer o bractisiau yn y Cymoedd ac mewn ardaloedd gwledig yn methu â recriwtio meddygon ifanc. Yng Ngorffennaf 2000, clywsom fod practisiau yng Nghaerdydd yn ei chael yn anodd recriwtio. Cyfrifwyd bod angen inni hyfforddi o leiaf 200 o feddygon y flwyddyn i gymryd lle’r rhai sy’n gadael neu’n ymddeol: ar hyn o bryd yr ydym yn hyfforddi 120. Mae mwy o lawer o feddygon teulu’n ymddeol yn gynnar oherwydd y baich biwrocrataidd cynyddol a roddir arnynt gan y Llywodraeth hon a chan San Steffan.

What is the Government’s answer to this situation? If it cannot meet one set of targets it sets others. If it fails on those, it sets other targets. If those are too challenging, it sees what else it can do. New Labour is obsessed with targets. It is a great shame that it does not spend as much time meeting them as it does in creating them, and then forgetting about them. The chair of the Audit Commission said last week that the proliferation of goals was very dangerous and went on to say that the problem we face is a:

yn Saesneg Beth yw ateb y Llywodraeth i’r sefyllfa hon? Os nad yw’n gallu cwrdd ag un set o dargedau mae’n gosod eraill. Os yw’n methu’r rheini, mae’n gosod targedau eraill. Os yw’r rheini’n rhy ymestynnol, mae’n ystyried beth arall y gall ei wneud. Mae gan Lafur Newydd obsesiwn â thargedau. Mae’n drueni mawr nad yw’n treulio cymaint o amser yn eu cyrraedd ag y mae wrth eu creu, ac wedyn yn anghofio amdanynt. Dywedodd cadeirydd y Comisiwn Archwilio yr wythnos diwethaf fod yr amlder nodau’n beryglus iawn ac aeth ymlaen i ddweud mai’r broblem a wynebwn yw:

‘slavish devotion to targets, many of which have not been set very intelligently. It’s a surefire way of not getting improvements in public services’.

yn Saesneg ymlyniad gwasaidd wrth dargedau, y mae llawer ohonynt heb eu pennu’n ddeallus iawn. Mae’n ffordd sicr o beidio â chael gwelliannau mewn gwasanaethau cyhoeddus.

This target-setting culture, of which we have seen far too much in Wales, is destroying people’s confidence in the democratic process. That was a principle that seemed so close to the First Minister’s heart when he took office in February 2000. Labour’s vanishing targets are resulting in vanishing voters.

yn Saesneg Mae’r diwylliant hwn o osod targedau, y gwelsom ormod o lawer ohono yng Nghymru, yn dinistrio hyder pobl yn y broses ddemocrataidd. Yr oedd honno’n egwyddor yr ymddangosai ei bod yn agos iawn at galon y Prif Weinidog pan ymgymerodd â’i swydd yn Chwefror 2000. Mae diflaniad targedau Llafur yn arwain at ddiflaniad pleidleiswyr.

There is also the failure to deliver on the economy. The First Minister’s proud boast during November 2002 was that 33,000 extra jobs had been created in Wales since the same time last year. That was the figure he used on The Exchange television programme in the middle of December. On 18 December, in an article in The Western Mail that figure had dropped to 25,000. It seemed that 8,000 jobs had vanished mysteriously in a few days. But, of course, the First Minister was using figures from the labour market survey, which produces figures on changes year on year. However, he did not tell us that those are not absolute figures: they are samples from certain sectors in the economy. He could not simply say that 33,000 or 25,000 new jobs had been created. That was misleading, and he should apologise for that.

yn Saesneg Mae methiant hefyd i fynd â’r maen i’r wal yn yr economi. Ymffrostiodd y Prif Weinidog yn ystod Tachwedd 2002 fod 33,000 o swyddi ychwanegol wedi’u creu yng Nghymru ers yr un adeg y llynedd. Dyna’r ffigur a ddefnyddiodd ar y rhaglen deledu The Exchange ganol Rhagfyr. Ar 18 Rhagfyr, mewn erthygl yn The Western Mail, yr oedd y ffigur hwnnw wedi gostwng i 25,000. Ymddangosai fod 8,000 o swyddi wedi diflannu’n anesboniadwy o fewn ychydig ddyddiau. Ond, wrth gwrs, yr oedd y Prif Weinidog yn defnyddio ffigurau o’r arolwg marchnad lafur, sy’n cynhyrchu ffigurau am newidiadau o flwyddyn i flwyddyn. Fodd bynnag, ni ddywedodd wrthym nad ffigurau absoliwt ydynt: maent yn samplau o sectorau penodol yn yr economi. Nid oedd yn iawn iddo ddweud bod 33,000 neu 25,000 o swyddi newydd wedi’u creu. Yr oedd hynny’n gamarweiniol, a dylai ymddiheuro am hynny.

Therefore, the First Minister’s Government’s general record on the health service, the economy and the public services is appalling. In 1998, the average wage in Wales was 89 per cent of the UK average; even then Welsh workers were getting 11 per cent less than other workers in the United Kingdom. By the end of 2002, the level of their pay was actually worse—just 86 per cent of the British average. Let us translate that out into hard facts: this 3 per cent decline alone has cost us nearly £100 a month each. If the First Minister’s Government had just kept us where we were, the average Welsh worker would be £25 a week better off. That is the true cost of this Government’s economic incompetence: £25 disappearing out of the wage packet of every worker in Wales each week. What about the 17,000 manufacturing jobs that have been lost in Wales since 1999? The true cost of this incompetence is seen in the appalling statistic that a third of Welsh children live below the poverty threshold five years after the advent of a Labour Government. Labour still likes to pretend that it looks after working people. However, it costs to vote Labour; it costs economically and socially.

yn Saesneg Felly, mae record gyffredinol Llywodraeth y Prif Weinidog ar y gwasanaeth iechyd, yr economi a’r gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yn warthus. Yn 1998, yr oedd y cyflog cyfartalog yng Nghymru yn 89 y cant o’r cyfartaledd yn y DU; hyd yn oed yr adeg honno, yr oedd gweithwyr Cymru’n cael 11 y cant yn llai na gweithwyr eraill yn y Deyrnas Unedig. Erbyn diwedd 2002, yr oedd eu lefel tâl yn waeth—dim ond 86 y cant o’r cyfartaledd Prydeinig. Gadewch inni droi hynny’n ffeithiau pendant: mae’r dirywiad hwn o 3 y cant wedi costio ymron i £100 y mis yr un i ni ar ei ben ei hun. Pe byddai Llywodraeth y Prif Weinidog ond wedi ein cadw lle’r oeddem, byddai gweithwyr Cymru’n £25 yr wythnos yn well eu byd ar gyfartaledd. Dyna wir gost bwnglera economaidd y Llywodraeth hon: £25 yn diflannu o baced cyflog pob gweithiwr yng Nghymru bob wythnos. Beth am y 17,000 o swyddi gweithgynhyrchu a gollwyd yng Nghymru ers 1999? Gwelir gwir gost y bwnglera hwn yn yr ystadegyn gwarthus bod traean o blant Cymru’n byw o dan y trothwy tlodi bum mlynedd ar ôl dyfodiad Llywodraeth Lafur. Mae Llafur yn dal i hoffi cymryd arno ei fod yn gofalu am bobl sy’n gweithio. Fodd bynnag, mae pris i’w dalu am bleidleisio dros Lafur; pris economaidd a chymdeithasol.

The gap between rich and poor in Britain is widening. The figures for Welsh GDP show that the current figure of 82 per cent is likely to drop even further during the next few years. Labour can waffle on about clear red water, but a truly socialist Government closes the gap between rich and poor—it does not widen it year on year.

yn Saesneg Mae’r bwlch rhwng y tlawd a’r cyfoethog ym Mhrydain yn ymledu. Mae’r ffigurau am CMC Cymru yn dangos bod y ffigur presennol o 82 y cant yn debygol o ostwng ymhellach byth yn ystod y blynyddoedd nesaf. Caiff Llafur falu awyr am ddŵr coch clir, ond mae Llywodraeth wir sosialaidd yn cau’r bwlch rhwng y tlawd a’r cyfoethog—nid yw’n ei ledu o’r naill flwyddyn i’r llall.

On crime, things are worsening under Labour. Since 1997, cases of violence against the person rose from 17,000 to 36,000 and cases of criminal damage have increased from 44,000 to almost 57,000 in 2002. Therefore, wherever you look, Labour has failed the people of Wales, and the Liberal Democrats have been their partners in failure. Wales wanted a Government that would deliver for Wales, not a Government obsessed with creating targets, but one that would get on with the job. Not a Government that makes promises it cannot keep, but one that is honest with the people of Wales. Not an incompetent, inefficient Government, but one that would provide good public services and decent living standards. On all these counts the coalition has failed the people of Wales, and simply does not deserve a second term in office. However, there is cause for hope. The people of Wales have an alternative, and they will vote for it.

yn Saesneg Ynghylch troseddu, mae pethau’n gwaethygu o dan Lafur. Ers 1997, mae nifer yr achosion o drais yn erbyn yr unigolyn wedi codi o 17,000 i 36,000 a nifer yr achosion o ddifrod troseddol wedi codi o 44,000 i ymron i 57,000 yn 2002. Felly, ym mha le bynnag yr edrychwch, mae Llafur wedi siomi pobl Cymru, a bu’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn bartneriaid iddynt yn y methiant hwnnnw. Yr oedd ar Gymru eisiau Llywodraeth a fyddai’n cyflawni dros Gymru, nid Llywodraeth sydd ag obsesiwn â chreu targedau, ond un a fyddai’n bwrw ymlaen â’r gwaith. Nid Llywodraeth sy’n gwneud addewidion nad yw’n gallu eu cadw, ond un sy’n dweud y gwir wrth bobl Cymru. Nid Llywodraeth analluog ac aneffeithlon, ond un a ddarparai wasanaethau cyhoeddus da a safonau byw gweddus. Ar bob un o’r ystyriaethau hynny mae’r glymblaid wedi siomi pobl Cymru, ac nid yw’n haeddu ail dymor mewn grym. Fodd bynnag, mae lle i obeithio. Mae dewis arall gan bobl Cymru, a byddant yn pleidleisio drosto.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 70

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 70

I propose amendment 1 in the name of Jonathan Morgan. Delete ‘.’ and add

Cynigiaf welliant 1 yn enw Jonathan Morgan. Dileu ‘.’ ac ychwanegu ar y diwedd:

Nick Bourne (continued) spoken in English p. 70

Nick Bourne (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 70

We are that alternative. The coalition Government has spent most of its existence trumpeting the record levels of money being spent on Wales’s public services as vindication of its failure to spend it effectively. I fully expect a procession of Labour Members, probably led by Brian Gibbons, and a trickle of Liberal Democrat Members, loyally to claim that the amount of money being spent is an indication of this Government’s success. However, money spent does not indicate success in itself. What matters are outcomes. What use are millions of pounds in extra expenditure, if they are being fritted away on bureaucracy and outdated systems?

Ni yw’r dewis arall hwnnw. Mae’r Llywodraeth glymblaid wedi treulio’r rhan fwyaf o’i hoes yn canu clodydd y lefelau uchaf erioed o arian a warir ar wasanaethau cyhoeddus Cymru er mwyn cyfiawnhau ei methiant i’w wario’n effeithiol. Yr wyf yn llawn ddisgwyl gorymdaith o Aelodau Llafur, wedi’i harwain gan Brian Gibbons yn ôl pob tebyg, a ambell Aelodau’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol, i honni’n deyrngar fod y swm o arian sy’n cael ei wario yn arwydd o lwyddiant y Llywodraeth. Fodd bynnag, nid yw arian a warir yn arwydd o lwyddiant ynddo’i hun. Yr hyn sy’n bwysig yw canlyniadau. Beth yw diben miliynau o bunnoedd o wariant ychwanegol, os cânt eu gwastraffu ar fiwrocratiaeth a systemau hen ffasiwn?

When questioned on rising waiting lists, Ministers point to the money going into the NHS. However, if that money is being invested, why are the lists so long? Despite the cynical and misleading promises that the coalition has made, it is time for it to accept the blindingly obvious fact that its policies are not working and never will. For as long as the dead hand of centralism and stateism prevails over innovation and enterprise, public services will not improve.

Pan holir hwy am restrau aros cynyddol, mae Gweinidogion yn cyfeirio at yr arian sy’n mynd i’r GIG. Fodd bynnag, os yw’r arian hwnnw’n cael ei fuddsoddi, pam mae’r rhestrau mor hir? Er gwaethaf yr addewidion sinigaidd a chamarweiniol a wnaeth y glymblaid, mae’n bryd iddi dderbyn y ffaith gwbl amlwg nad yw ei pholisïau’n gweithio’n awr ac na fyddant byth. Cyhyd ag y bydd llaw farw canoliaeth a gwladoliaeth yn drech nag arloesi a menter, ni fydd gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yn gwella.

The coalition does not understand that the record amount of money being spent is the greatest indictment of its reign of error. Despite all the millions being spent, waiting lists in our hospitals, as the First Minister acknowledged earlier, have never been longer, farming and rural Wales are in crisis, small schools are closing week on week, and the wealth gap between Wales and the rest of the UK is widening.

Nid yw’r glymblaid yn deall mai’r ffaith bod y swm mwyaf erioed o arian yn cael ei wario yw’r condemniad mwyaf ar ei deyrnasiad cyfeiliornus. Er gwaethaf y miliynau lawer a warir, ni fu’r rhestrau aros yn ein hysbytai erioed yn hwy, fel y cydnabu’r Prif Weinidog yn gynharach, mae ffermio a’r Gymru wledig mewn argyfwng, mae ysgolion bach yn cau o wythnos i wythnos, ac mae’r bwlch cyfoeth rhwng Cymru a gweddill y DU yn ymledu.

Let us consider the facts. In health, waiting lists are massively longer, the number of beds has decreased and there are three times as many bureaucrats as doctors and nurses. The coalition has refused to fully fund a children’s hospital for Wales while pushing ahead with a new Assembly building, costing upwards of £40 million.

Gadewch inni ystyried y ffeithiau. Ym maes iechyd, mae rhestrau aros yn hwy o lawer iawn, mae nifer y gwelyau wedi gostwng ac mae tair gwaith cynifer o fiwrocratiaid ag o feddygon a nyrsys. Mae’r glymblaid wedi gwrthod ariannu ysbyty plant i Gymru’n llawn gan fwrw ymlaen ag adeilad newydd i’r Cynulliad, a fydd yn costio mwy na £40 miliwn.

John Griffiths spoken in English p. 71

John Griffiths siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 71

Does what you say about the amount of money being spent at the moment demonstrate your support for Iain Duncan Smith’s call for a 20 per cent cut in public spending?

A yw’r hyn a ddywedwch am y swm o arian a warir ar hyn o bryd yn arwydd o’ch cefnogaeth i alwad Iain Duncan Smith am doriad o 20 y cant mewn gwariant cyhoeddus?

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 71

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 71

I wondered when those Labour briefing notes would come in handy. I am glad that you asked that question. Iain Duncan Smith has made absolutely clear that public services must first be reformed before considering any tax cuts. No Government should pride itself on raising taxes in the way that your Government has, particularly when considering the state of public services in decline. Your Government has achieved a rare double whammy—it has managed to contribute towards a deterioration in public services and to increase taxes. That is not something to be proud of, but to be deeply ashamed of. First, we would ensure that the money was spent effectively. Then you can see if there is enough surplus to allow for tax cuts. You will find, John, that many people who voted for you in Newport during the last election—and will probably not do so this time—would be interested in seeing some kind of tax cut because they have spent so much extra money for no return during the last five years.

Yr oeddwn yn meddwl tybed pa bryd y byddai’r nodiadau briffio hynny gan Lafur yn ddefnyddiol. Yr wyf yn falch eich bod wedi gofyn y cwestiwn hwnnw. Mae Iain Duncan Smith wedi dweud yn gwbl bendant y bydd yn rhaid diwygio gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yn gyntaf cyn ystyried unrhyw doriadau mewn trethi. Ni ddylai’r un Llywodraeth ymfalchïo yn y ffaith ei bod yn cynyddu treth fel y gwnaeth eich Llywodraeth chi, yn enwedig o ystyried y dirywiad yng nghyflwr gwasanaethau cyhoeddus. Mae’ch Llywodraeth wedi cyflawni camp ddwbl anarferol—mae wedi llwyddo i gyfrannu at ddirywiad mewn gwasanaethau cyhoeddus ac i gynyddu trethi. Nid rhywbeth y dylid ymfalchïo ynddo yw hynny, ond rhywbeth y dylech fod â chywilydd mawr ohono. Yn gyntaf, byddem yn sicrhau y câi’r arian ei wario’n effeithiol. Gellid gweld wedyn a oes digon dros ben i ganiatáu toriadau mewn trethi. Byddwch yn gweld, John, y byddai llawer o’r rhai a bleidleisiodd drosoch yng Nghasnewydd yn yr etholiad diwethaf—ac sy’n debygol o beidio â gwneud y tro hwn—yn hoffi gweld rhyw fath o doriad mewn treth am eu bod wedi gwario cymaint o arian ychwanegol yn ystod y pum mlynedd diwethaf heb gael dim yn ôl.

David Melding spoken in English p. 72

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 72

Do you think that the fact that the Minister for Health and Social Services’ health budget has been frozen by her colleague, the Finance Minister, indicates a certain disquiet even within this Labour Cabinet?

A ydych yn credu bod y ffaith bod cyllideb iechyd y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cyhoeddus wedi’i rhewi gan ei chyd-aelod o’r Cabinet, y Gweinidog Cyllid, yn dangos rhywfaint o anesmwythyd, hyd yn oed o fewn y Cabinet Llafur hwn?

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 72

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 72

The sight of Edwina Hart moving her tanks onto Jane Hutt’s lawn almost leads you to have some hope that at least one Cabinet Member realised that there was something wrong with this Government’s position on waiting lists. Large parts of the Labour Party do not seem to think that there is anything wrong with hundreds of thousands of people waiting for urgent treatment in Wales. It is an indictment of the system that it operates.

Mae gweld Edwina Hart yn symud ei thanciau dros lawnt Jane Hutt bron â rhoi rhywfaint o obaith i rywun bod o leiaf un aelod o’r Cabinet yn sylweddoli bod rhywbeth o’i le ar safbwynt y Llywodraeth hon ar restrau aros. Ymddengys bod carfannau mawr yn y Blaid Lafur nad ydynt yn credu bod dim o’i le ar y ffaith bod cannoedd o filoedd o bobl yn disgwyl am driniaeth frys yng Nghymru. Mae’n gondemniad ar y system y mae’n ei gweithredu.

Eleanor Burnham spoken in English p. 72

Eleanor Burnham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 72

Do you think that the last Conservative Government was wonderful to dispense with and waste so many billions of pounds on privatising our railways? We are now possibly facing the fiasco of railways having to be taken back into state ownership, like parts of the railway between London and Reading. Privatisation is clearly not working.

A ydych yn credu i’r Llywodraeth Geidwadol ddiwethaf weithredu’n wych wrth gael gwared ar gynifer o biliynau o bunnoedd a’u gwastraffu ar breifateiddio ein rheilffyrdd? Mae’n bosibl ein bod bellach yn wynebu’r ffiasgo o orfod cymryd rheilffyrdd yn ôl o dan berchnogaeth wladol, fel rhannau o’r rheilffordd rhwng Llundain a Reading. Mae’n amlwg nad yw preifateiddio’n gweithio.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 72

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 72

The people of Wales are talking about nothing but the rail link between London and Reading. I do not know where you travel in north Wales, but wherever I go, people are more concerned about the NHS that has been brought to its knees by the Labour Party, which your bunch sadly support.

Nid yw pobl Cymru’n sôn am fawr ddim arall ond y cyswllt rheilffordd rhwng Llundain a Reading. Ni wn ym mhle’r ydych chi’n teithio yn y Gogledd, ond ym mhle bynnag yr af fi, mae pobl yn ymboeni’n fwy am y GIG sydd wedi’i lorio gan y Blaid Lafur, sy’n cael ei chefnogi gan eich criw chi, gwaetha’r modd.

Let us consider the facts in other areas. Since we are discussing the coalition Government, let us consider the contribution of your estimable leader, the Deputy First Minister and Minister for Rural Development and Wales Abroad—[Interruption.]

Gadewch inni ystyried y ffeithiau mewn meysydd eraill. Gan ein bod yn trafod y Llywodraeth glymblaid, gadewch inni ystyried cyfraniad eich arweinydd parchus, y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog a’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Gwledig a Chymru Dramor—[Torri ar draws.]

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 72

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 72

Order. I will not allow other Members to stand when a Member is talking. I will give Nick another minute in which to speak.

Trefn. Ni adawaf i Aelodau eraill sefyll pan yw Aelod yn siarad. Rhoddaf funud arall i Nick siarad.

Jenny Randerson spoken in English p. 73

Jenny Randerson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 73

What about the people who died—

Beth am y bobl a fu farw—

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 73

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 73

Order. Nick is not giving way.

Trefn. Nid yw Nick yn ildio.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 73

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 73

I will gladly accept an intervention from the Minister for Culture, Sport and the Welsh Language from a standing position. Do you wish to intervene?

Byddaf yn falch o dderbyn ymyriad gan y Gweinidog dros Ddiwylliant, Chwaraeon a’r Gymraeg pan fo ar ei thraed. A ydych yn dymuno ymyrryd?

Jenny Randerson spoken in English p. 73

Jenny Randerson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 73

No.

Nac ydwyf.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 73

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 73

Shut up then.

Byddwch ddistaw felly.

Let us consider the facts as contributed to by Mike German as the Deputy First Minister in what is his inestimable promotion of this Government in calling for extra powers. He cannot even exercise his current powers sensibly. Everything is the fault of the computer, but we know that there are hundreds and thousands of farmers waiting for urgent subsidy payments. Only when he gets to grips with his current powers should we consider extending them. Let him end the 20-day standstill rule and ensure that our farmers receive the prompt payments that they are due.

Gadewch inni ystyried y ffeithiau fel y cyfrannwyd atynt gan Mike German fel y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog o ran ei waith aruthrol o hyrwyddo’r Llywodraeth hon drwy alw am bwerau ychwanegol. Nid yw hyd yn oed yn gallu arfer ei bwerau presennol yn synhwyrol. Ar y cyfrifiadur y mae’r bai am bopeth, ond gwyddom fod cannoedd a miloedd o ffermwyr yn disgwyl am gymorthdaliadau brys. Dim ond wedi iddo feistroli ei bwerau presennol y dylem ystyried eu hymestyn. Gadewch iddo derfynu’r rheol atal symudiadau 20 diwrnod a sicrhau bod ein ffermwyr yn derbyn y taliadau sy’n ddyledus iddynt yn brydlon.

Underachievement does not only relate to health and agriculture. It is also true of Objective 1 and the economic strategy that has been ridiculed by almost everybody except the Cabinet. It is clear that this shambles of a coalition has failed. It is high time that it was disbanded. We remember the euphoria when the First Minister was elected—that fact was true in Ieuan Wyn Jones’s speech, if nothing else was. There was a feeling of euphoria, which was swiftly dispelled. Things went from bad to worse and deteriorated further when the ‘hokey-cokey lot’ were in and then out. Things have not improved since.

Nid yn unig mewn cysylltiad ag iechyd ac amaethyddiaeth y ceir tangyflawni. Mae hefyd yn wir am Amcan 1 a’r strategaeth economaidd a fu’n destun sbort i bawb bron heblaw’r Cabinet. Mae’n amlwg bod y glymblaid anniben hon wedi methu. Mae’n hen bryd ei chwalu. Cofiwn y gorfoledd pan etholwyd y Prif Weinidog—yr oedd y ffaith honno yn araith Ieuan Wyn Jones yn wir, os nad oedd dim arall. Yr oedd teimlad o orfoledd, a chwalwyd yn fuan. Aeth pethau o ddrwg i waeth gan ddirywio ymhellach pan oedd ‘criw’r hoci coci’ i mewn ac allan wedyn. Nid yw pethau wedi gwella ers hynny.

I am sorry that Plaid Cymru does not feel able to see the consequences of attacking the coalition Government. Plaid Cymru calls for it to be disbanded. It needs to attend one of Jane Davidson’s remedial classes to find out about lessons in logic. It is high time that this Government recognised its failings. We look forward to the next election because it gives us the opportunity to get rid of this shambles of a coalition Government at long last.

Mae’n ddrwg gennyf nad yw Plaid Cymru yn teimlo ei bod yn gallu gweld y canlyniadau i ymosod ar y Llywodraeth glymblaid. Mae Plaid Cymru yn galw am ei chwalu. Dylai fynychu un o ddosbarthiadau adfer Jane Davidson er mwyn cael gwybod am wersi mewn rhesymeg. Mae’n hen bryd i’r Llywodraeth hon gydnabod ei methiannau. Edrychwn ymlaen at yr etholiad nesaf gan ei fod yn rhoi cyfle inni gael gwared ar y llanastr hwn o Lywodraeth glymblaid o’r diwedd.

Elin Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 74

Elin Jones spoken in Welsh p. 74

Ambell waith teimlaf damaid bach o drueni dros y Llywodraeth yma. Mae wedi seilio ei thargedau economaidd bron yn gyfan gwbl ar leihau’r bwlch mewn llewyrch economaidd rhwng Cymru a gweddill y Deyrnas Gyfunol tra bod Llywodraeth y Deyrnas Gyfunol yn gwrthod gweithredu polisi economaidd rhanbarthol i leihau’r bwlch rhwng y rhanbarthau cyfoethocaf a gweddill y Deyrnas Gyfunol ac yn dewis yn hytrach i gadw’r gyfradd llog yn gymharol uchel, ffafrio economi de-ddwyrain Lloegr ond niweidio economïau megis un Cymru, sydd â chyfran gymharol uchel o ddiwydiannau megis amaethyddiaeth, gweithgynhyrchu a thwristiaeth. Dwy Lywodraeth, un blaid sydd. Er hynny, mae gwrthdaro rhwng y polisïau.

I occasionally feel a little sorry for the Government here. It has based its economic targets almost entirely on narrowing the gap in economic prosperity between Wales and the UK while the UK Government refuses to implement regional economic policies to narrow the gap between the richest regions and the rest of the UK and chooses instead to keep the interest rate relatively high, which favours the economies of the south-east of England but is harmful to economies such as that of Wales, which has a comparatively high proportion of industries such as agriculture, manufacturing and tourism. There are two Governments and one party. Despite that, there are conflicting policies.

Mae’r Undeb Ewropeaidd yn gweithredu polisi rhanbarthol cryf, a thrwy hynny mae deuparth Cymru’n gymwys am arian Amcan 1. Er hynny, mae Gordon Brown yn gwrthod â chydnabod yr angen rhanbarthol ac yn gwrthod cyllid cyfatebol o’r Trysorlys dan Amcan 1. Golyga hyn fod yn rhaid i Gymru gael o’i chyllidebau ei hun—o gyllidebau iechyd ac addysg—ryw £100 miliwn y flwyddyn i ariannu Amcan 1. Nid oes cyllid cyfatebol i Amcan 1 gan y Trysorlys na chymhorthion gweithredu fel arf ychwanegol i hybu twf busnesau yn ardaloedd Amcan 1. Er gwaethaf y brolio parhaol, ni ddeilliodd dim o gydweithredu rhwng Llafur Llundain a Llafur Caerdydd, a pharhau i anwybyddu anghenion Cymru y mae Llywodraeth Lafur yn Llundain fel y gwnaeth y llywodraethau Torïaidd cynt. I roi halen yn y briw, Llywodraeth Lafur Cymru sy’n ymwrthod â pholisi economaidd rhanbarthol yng Nghymru. Nid oes cyfeiriad rhanbarthol na thargedau swyddi rhanbarthol. Mae’r cynlluniau cymorth busnes yn ceisio cynnig tamaid bach o bopeth i bawb, heb unrhyw ffocws arbennig, er bod cydnabyddiaeth gynyddol o’r angen i ganolbwyntio adnoddau ar y busnesau a’r sectorau sydd fwyaf parod ac abl i dyfu a llewyrchu. Nododd y TUC yr wythnos diwethaf yr angen i dargedu adnoddau ar sectorau a busnesau twf. Gwrthod gwneud hyn ar hyd yr amser y mae’r Llywodraeth.

The European Union operates a strong regional policy, and through that, two thirds of Wales qualifies for Objective 1 funding. Despite that, Gordon Brown refuses to acknowledge the regional need and refuses Treasury match funding under Objective 1. This means that Wales is forced to find from its own finances—from the health and education budgets—about £100 million a year to finance Objective 1. There is neither match funding for Objective 1 from the Treasury nor operating aids as an additional tool to stimulate business growth in Objective 1 areas. Despite the constant boasting, nothing has transpired from co-operation between London Labour and Cardiff Labour, and the Labour Government in London continues to ignore the needs of Wales as did previous Tory governments. To rub salt in the wound, it is the Welsh Labour Government that rejects a regional economic policy in Wales. There is no regional direction nor regional employment targets. The business support plans are trying to offer a little bit of everything to everyone, without any specific focus, despite the increasing recognition of the need to concentrate resources on the businesses and sectors that are most prepared and able to grow and prosper. The TUC noted last week the need to target resources on growth businesses and sectors. The Government has continually refused to do so.

Pwy sy’n cofio rhethreg y Prif Weinidog ac eraill wrth sefydlu statws Amcan 1, fod gwersi’r gorffennol wedi eu dysgu, ac y gweinyddid Amcan 1 yn wahanol i’r hen gronfeydd strwythurol? Mae’n wahanol—mae’n waeth. Mae mwy o fiwrocratiaeth; cymerir mwy o amser i benderfynu ar geisiadau; mae mwy o bwyllgorau, mwy o ymgynghorwyr, a mwy o bobl yn gweithio yn y sector cyhoeddus, a llawer ohonynt yn gweithio yng Nghaerdydd. Beth y mae’r Llywodraeth mwyaf balch ohono ynghylch Amcan 1? Yn ôl Andrew Davies yn The Western Mail yr wythnos diwethaf, y ffactor allweddol yw’r partneriaethau. Rhag ofn bod Andrew Davies heb sylwi, nid yw creu partneriaethau a phwyllgorau yn un o dargedau Amcan 1—creu swyddi a chynyddu CMC yw’r nod, a’r allbwn fydd mesur llwyddiant Amcan 1, nid y mewnbwn. Prif nod Amcan 1 a ‘Chymru’n Ennill’ yw cynyddu lefel gymharol CMC. Fodd bynnag, nid oes ystadegau swyddogol CMC ar gael ar Gymru er 1999, sy’n warthus. Mae gan y Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol y data craidd, ac eto ni ryddheir yr ystadegau CMC rhanbarthol. Maent wedi eu gohirio yn awr tan y gwanwyn. Byddai rhywun sy’n fwy o sinig na mi yn gallu dweud bod hyn yn gwneud y tro i Lafur i’r dim. Mae’n gwneud y tro i Lafur Llundain gan fod ffigurau CMC rhanbarthol yn atgoffa pawb o’r anghyfartaledd yn economi y DG.

Who remembers the rhetoric of the First Minster and others when Objective 1 status was granted, that the lessons of the past had been learned, and that Objective 1 would be administered differently to the old structural funds? It is different—it is worse. There is more bureaucracy; more time is taken to decide on applications; there are more committees, more consultants, and more people working in the public sector, with many of them based in Cardiff. What is the Government most proud of regarding Objective 1? According to Andrew Davies in The Western Mail last week, the key factor is the partnerships. In case Andrew Davies has not noticed, the creation of partnerships and committees is not one of the Objective 1 targets—the aim is to create employment and increase GDP, and output will be the measure of Objective 1’s success, not input. The main aim of Objective 1 and ‘A Winning Wales’ is to increase comparative levels of GDP. However, there are no official statistics available for Wales since 1999, which is disgraceful. The Office for National Statistics has the raw data, yet the regional GDP statistics are not released. They have now been postponed until the spring. A more cynical person than myself might say that that suits the Government down to the ground. It suits London Labour since regional GDP figures remind everyone of the inequalities in the UK economy.

Alun Pugh spoken in English p. 75

Alun Pugh siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 75

Will you give way?

A wnewch ildio?

Elin Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 75

Elin Jones spoken in Welsh p. 75

Na wnaf.

No.

Mae’n gweddu i ddibenion Llafur Caerdydd gan fod pob adroddiad annibynnol yn dangos, er gwaethaf statws Amcan 1, fod y bwlch yn lledu rhwng CMC y pen Cymru ac CMC y pen gweddill y DU, a bod y glymblaid wedi methu â newid hyn. Efallai mai eironi ffigurau diweddar Manpower sy’n adlewyrchu orau record Llywodraeth y Cynulliad. Mae’r ffigurau’n dangos bod cyflogwyr Cymru gyda’r mwyaf awyddus i gyflogi staff newydd. Fodd bynnag, ble mae’r twf posibl mwyaf yn ôl Manpower? Mae yn y sector cyhoeddus, yn enwedig yn y sector iechyd. Mae rhai wedi ceisio’u gorau glas i ddarganfod strategaeth economaidd y Llywodraeth. Efallai o’r diwedd ei bod wedi amlygu ei hun ar ffurf ail-strwythuro’r GIG a chreu mwy o swyddi gweinyddol a mwy o fiwrocratiaeth i’r GIG. Dyna’r strategaeth.

It suits the objectives of Cardiff Labour since every independent report indicates that, in spite of Objective 1 status, the gap is widening between Wales’s GDP per capita and that of the rest of the UK, and that the coalition has failed to change that. Perhaps the Government’s record is best reflected in the irony of Manpower’s latest figures. The figures demonstrate that Welsh employers are among the most keen to take on new staff. However, where, according to Manpower, is the greatest potential for growth? It is in the public sector, especially in the health sector. Some people have tried their level best to discover the Government’s economic strategy. Perhaps it has finally revealed itself in the shape of the NHS restructuring and the creation of more administrative posts and more bureaucracy for the NHS. That is the strategy.

I gloi, nid oes amheuaeth fod Llafur Llundain, er 1997, wedi gwrthod â mynd i’r afael ag anghenion penodol economi Cymru, a bod Llafur Caerdydd er 1999 wedi methu â chreu polisïau i newid cyfeiriad economaidd y wlad. Gwanhau yn gymharol y mae seiliau economaidd Cymru o dan Lafur, ac ni fyddai neb ond y 40 a mwy o ymgeiswyr Llafur yn etholiadau’r Cynulliad yn gwadu hynny.

Finally, there is no doubt that London Labour, since 1997, has refused to tackle the specific needs of the Welsh economy, and that Cardiff Labour since 1999 has failed to create policies to change the economic direction of the country. The economic foundations of Wales have weakened comparatively under Labour, and none but the 40-plus Labour candidates in the Assembly elections would deny that.

Val Lloyd spoken in English p. 76

Val Lloyd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 76

Late last year, this Labour-led Welsh Assembly Government announced the best and biggest investment ever in our public services. Is it a failure to deliver that? The biggest ever investments in education, health and social care are working to deliver better quality of life in all our communities. Is that a failure to deliver? This investment is matched with reform to deliver real results for people in all constituencies across Wales. What does the opposition have to say about the Welsh Assembly Government’s excellent budget? Nothing constructive and nothing of substance, only a whinge and a criticism for introducing a big spending budget. In my own constituency, and across south-west Wales, this Government’s priorities since 1999 are paying dividends and are delivering. Instead of indulging in some of the earlier controversy I prefer focusing on issues that are important to my constituents. The pioneering Technium 1 and 2, the new waterfront museum, Swansea Vale, the national pool and the new medical school that is training the next generation of doctors for Wales were all delivered to Swansea thanks to support from the Assembly and the Government in Wales. The Port Tawe Innovation Village will radically change the focus of my constituency, which was also made possible thanks to the priorities of the Assembly Government. Through free school milk, frozen prescription charges, and free bus travel, the Labour-led administration is making a positive difference to the lives of families across my constituency and across Wales. I do not care how many times I repeat it, because I believe it is true.

Ar ddiwedd y flwyddyn ddiwethaf, cyhoeddodd y Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru hon dan arweiniad Llafur y buddsoddiad gorau a mwyaf erioed yn ein gwasanaethau cyhoeddus. Ai methiant yw cyflawni hynny? Mae’r buddsoddiadau mwyaf erioed mewn addysg, iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol yn gweithio i sicrhau gwell ansawdd bywyd yn ein holl gymunedau. Ai methu mynd â’r maen i’r wal yw hynny? Mae’r buddsoddiad hwn yn cyd-fynd â diwygio i sicrhau canlyniadau go-iawn i bobl ym mhob etholaeth ledled Cymru. Beth sydd gan yr wrthblaid i’w ddweud am gyllideb ragorol Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru? Dim byd adeiladol a dim o sylwedd, dim ond cŵyn a beirniadaeth am gyflwyno cyllideb o wario mawr. Yn fy etholaeth i, a ledled y De-orllewin, mae blaenoriaethau’r Llywodraeth hon ers 1999 yn talu ar eu canfed ac yn mynd â’r maen i’r wal. Yn hytrach nag ymblesera yn y dadlau a gafwyd yn gynharach, mae’n well gennyf fi ganolbwyntio ar faterion sy’n bwysig i’m hetholwyr. Yr oedd y Technium 1 a 2 arloesol, yr amgueddfa newydd ar lan y dŵr, Swansea Vale, y pwll nofio cenedlaethol a’r ysgol feddygol newydd sy’n hyfforddi’r genhedlaeth nesaf o feddygon i Gymru oll wedi’u rhoi i Abertawe diolch i gefnogaeth y Cynulliad a’r Llywodraeth yng Nghymru. Bydd Pentref Arloesedd Port Tawe yn newid ffocws fy etholaeth yn sylfaenol, a hwyluswd hynny hefyd diolch i flaenoriaethau Llywodraeth y Cynulliad. Drwy laeth am ddim mewn ysgolion, rhewi taliadau presgripsiwn, a theithio am ddim ar fysiau, mae’r weinyddiaeth dan arweiniad Llafur yn gwneud gwahaniaeth cadarnhaol ym mywydau teuluoedd ledled fy etholaeth a ledled Cymru. Nid wyf yn hidio faint o weithiau yr wyf yn ei ddweud, oherwydd credaf ei fod yn wir.

By working in partnership with the UK Government, the Welsh Assembly Government is cutting unemployment in Wales to 1975 levels, which is the lowest for a generation. Thanks to the Government’s successful regional selective assistance initiative, Assembly investment grants and the work of Finance Wales, hundreds of jobs have been secured and created across the city of Swansea. This is also true for the whole of Wales. Therefore, the Assembly Government—far from failing its people—is addressing the real issues facing Wales, such as the need for safer communities, better public services and greater prosperity—

Drwy weithio mewn partneriaeth â Llywodraeth y DU, mae Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru yn torri diweithdra yng Nghymru i’r un lefelau ag yn 1975, sef yr isaf ers cenhedlaeth. Diolch i fenter cymorth rhanbarthol dewisol llwyddiannus y Llywodraeth, grantiau buddsoddi’r Cynulliad a gwaith Cyllid Cymru, mae cannoedd o swyddi wedi’u sicrhau a’u creu drwy ddinas Abertawe. Mae hyn yn wir am Gymru gyfan hefyd. Felly, mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad—yn hytrach na siomi ei phobl—yn ymdrin â’r gwir faterion sy’n wynebu Cymru, fel yr angen am gymunedau diogelach, gwell gwasanaethau cyhoeddus a mwy o ffyniant—

Alun Cairns a gododd—

Alun Cairns rose—

Val Lloyd spoken in English p. 77

Val Lloyd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 77

I will not give way.

Nid ildiaf.

The nationalists seem unduly obsessed with the constitution. They have chosen to ignore the Government’s investment in health and education, its commitment to build safer, stronger communities and an enterprising, innovative economy. They ignore it, or try to denigrate it, because it does not serve their agenda. I am proud to represent a party that is bringing the Government closer to the people and a party that is making a positive difference to the daily lives of Welsh families, connecting the work of the Welsh Assembly Government to individuals and communities.

Ymddengys fod gan y cenedlaetholwyr obsesiwn gormodol â’r cyfansoddiad. Maent wedi dewis anwybyddu buddsoddiad y Llywodraeth mewn iechyd ac addysg, ei hymrwymiad i greu cymunedau cryfach a mwy diogel ac economi fentrus ac arloesol. Maent yn ei anwybyddu, neu’n ceisio ei fychanu, am nad yw’n gyfleus i’w hagenda. Yr wyf yn falch o gynrychioli plaid sy’n dod â’r Llywodraeth yn agosach at y bobl a phlaid sy’n gwneud gwahaniaeth cadarnhaol ym mywyd beunyddiol teuluoedd Cymru, gan gysylltu gwaith Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru ag unigolion a chymunedau.

David Lloyd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 77

David Lloyd spoken in Welsh p. 77

Yn naturiol, cyfyngaf fy sylwadau i iechyd a byddaf yn canolbwyntio ar rai o’r addewidion a wnaethpwyd gan Lafur yn 1999. Addawyd na fyddai neb yn aros mwy na chwe mis i weld arbenigwr yn y lle cyntaf, a byddai neb yn aros mwy na 18 mis am lawdriniaeth wedi gweld arbenigwr. Dylid cofio mai 6,000 o bobl yn unig oedd yn aros dros chwe mis i weld arbenigwr yn 1997, ac yr oedd 21,000 yn aros dros chwe mis yn 1999 pan sefydlwyd y Cynulliad. Yr oedd disgwyl y byddai’r ffigur hwn yn dod lawr i ddim erbyn mis Mai eleni—ar adeg yr addewid yr oedd 21,000 o bobl yn aros—ond mae dros 82,000 o bobl yng Nghymru yn parhau i aros dros chwe mis i weld arbenigwr. Dyna fesur y methiant.

Naturally, I will limit my comments to health and concentrate on some of the promises made by Labour in 1999. It promised that no-one would wait over six months for an initial consultation with a specialist, and that no-one would wait over 18 months for surgery having seen a specialist. We should bear in mind that only 6,000 people were waiting over six months to see a specialist in 1997, and 21,000 people were waiting over six months in 1999 when the Assembly was established. The expectation was that this figure would fall to zero by May of this year—at the time of the pledge 21,000 people were waiting—but over 82,000 people in Wales are still waiting over six months to see a specialist. That is the measure of the failure.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 78

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 78

Efallai y gallwch fy helpu. A allwch esbonio’r ffenomen ryfeddol yn Nwyrain Abertawe? Ymddengys nad yw problemau amseroedd aros ar gyfer apwyntiad ysbyty yn effeithio ar etholwyr Dwyrain Abertawe; maent yn effeithio ar bob etholaeth arall ond, rywsut, mae Dwyrain Abertawe wedi llwyddo i’w hosgoi.

You may be able to help me. Can you explain the strange phenomenon in Swansea East? It appears that the problems with waiting times for hospital appointments do not affect the electorate of Swansea East; they affect every other electorate but, somehow, Swansea East has managed to avoid them.

David Lloyd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 78

David Lloyd spoken in Welsh and English p. 78

O’m gwybodaeth i o Ddwyrain Abertawe, mae’r un problemau yn bodoli yno.

in Welsh My experience of Swansea East informs me that the same problems exist there.

However, it is not only about the bald waiting figures, it is about people waiting in pain. Of those waiting for coronary artery by-passes, 5 per cent will die waiting and a further 5 per cent will die shortly after the heart surgery, because they waited too long. It is not only about the figures. An estimated 9,000 general practitioner appointments across Wales are taken up, each week, by people who have problems because they have been on a waiting list for too long. The Government talks about the need to improve access to GPs while 9,000 appointments in Wales are taken up each week with people waiting for treatment. Clearly this should be about increasing capacity, beds, doctors and nurses and, yes, alternative ways of dealing with the waiting lists, which we hear about all the time. However, we need more beds. We lost 6,000 beds between 1988 and 1998. We need beds now as well as innovative and alternative ways of dealing with waiting lists. That is what the emergency pressures taskforce said four years ago and what ‘A Question of Balance’ stated last year. The Government needs to invest in service development to improve capacity, not to spend millions of pounds on restructuring. It has spent millions and millions on the sixth attempt at NHS restructuring in the last 13 years, vastly increasing bureaucracy and not treating a single extra patient. This restructuring paralyses management. Management wonders if it has a job in the new restructuring. It is paralysed, therefore the whole-system approach to waiting list management, which is so desperately needed, cannot be achieved because the deck chairs are being rearranged again.

yn Saesneg Fodd bynnag, mae’n ymwneud â mwy na’r ffigurau aros moel yn unig, mae’n golygu bod pobl yn disgwyl mewn poen. O blith y rhai sy’n disgwyl am lawfeddygaeth ddargyfeiriol ar y wythïen goronaidd, bydd 5 y cant yn marw wrth ddisgwyl a bydd 5 y cant ychwanegol yn marw’n fuan ar ôl llawdriniaeth ar y galon, am eu bod wedi aros yn rhy hir. Mae’n ymwneud â mwy na’r ffigurau. Amcangyfrifir bod 9,000 o apwyntiadau â meddygon teulu ledled Cymru, bob wythnos, yn rhai ar gyfer pobl sydd â phroblemau am eu bod ar y rhestr aros yn rhy hir. Mae’r Llywodraeth yn sôn am yr angen i wella cyfleoedd i weld meddygon teulu tra bo 9,000 o apwyntiadau yng Nghymru bob wythnos yn rhai ar gyfer pobl sy’n aros am driniaeth. Mae’n amlwg y dylid ymdrin â chynyddu capasiti, gwelyau, meddygon a nyrsys ac, ie, dulliau gwahanol o ddelio â’r rhestrau aros, y clywn sôn amdanynt drwy’r amser. Fodd bynnag, mae arnom angen rhagor o welyau. Gwnaethom golli 6,000 o welyau rhwng 1988 a 1998. Mae arnom angen gwelyau’n awr yn ogystal â dulliau arloesol a gwahanol o ddelio â rhestrau aros. Dyna a ddywedodd y tasglu pwysau argyfwng bedair blynedd yn ôl a ‘Cadw Cydbwysedd’ y llynedd. Rhaid i’r Llywodraeth fuddsoddi yn y gwaith o ddatblygu’r gwasanaeth er mwyn gwella capasiti, ac nid gwario miliynau o bunnoedd ar ailstrwythuro. Mae wedi gwario miliynau lawer ar y chweched ymgais i ailstrwythuro’r GIG yn y 13 blynedd diwethaf, gan beri cynnydd aruthrol mewn biwrocratiaeth heb drin yr un claf ychwanegol. Mae ailstrwythuro o’r fath yn parlysu’r rheolwyr. Mae’r rheolwyr yn meddwl tybed a fydd ganddynt swyddi yn y strwythur newydd. Fe’u parlysir, ac felly ni ellir cyflawni’r dull gweithredu systemau cyfan o reoli’r rhestrau aros, y mae taer angen amdano, oherwydd aildrefnu ofer.

This coalition’s promises that no-one will have to wait more than six months for out-patient care and more than 18 months for in-patient care, ring hollow in Swansea East, as they do elsewhere. The reality is different, with over 82,000 people waiting over six months to be seen. Labour asked us to judge it on its record. The judgment is that the Labour/Liberal Democrat coalition has failed health in Wales.

yn Saesneg Mae addewidion y glymblaid hon na fydd neb yn gorfod aros am fwy na chwe mis am ofal claf allanol a mwy na 18 mis am ofal claf mewnol, yn swnio’n wag yn Nwyrain Abertawe, fel y maent mewn mannau eraill. Fel arall y mae mewn gwirionedd, gan fod dros 82,000 o bobl yn disgwyl am fwy na chwe mis i gael eu gweld. Gofynnodd Llafur inni ei barnu yn ôl ei record. Y dyfarniad yw bod y glymblaid Llafur/Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol wedi siomi Cymru ym maes iechyd.

Kirsty Williams spoken in English p. 79

Kirsty Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 79

Just before Christmas, I attended an event held in the Assembly where a group of healthcare professionals from Wales witnessed the launch of an all-Wales organisation. They said that they had never before felt the need for such an organisation to represent their profession because they did not feel that it could influence anything. An optician told me that he had been in the profession for 30 years, during 27 of which things had remained the same. He could not believe the difference that the Welsh Assembly Government had made to his profession over the last three years. Now he felt the need for this body because it could influence matters. He could see matters changing for the better and he felt enthusiastic about being a healthcare professional in this country.

Ychydig cyn y Nadolig, bûm yn bresennol mewn digwyddiad a gynhaliwyd yn y Cynulliad lle’r oedd grŵp o weithwyr gofal iechyd o Gymru’n dyst i lansio corff i Gymru gyfan. Dywedasant nad oeddent erioed wedi teimlo cyn hynny fod angen corff o’r fath i gynrychioli eu proffesiwn am eu bod yn teimlo na fyddai’n gallu dylanwadu ar unrhyw beth. Dywedodd optegydd wrthyf ei fod yn y proffesiwn ers 30 mlynedd, a bod pethau wedi aros yr un fath yn ystod 27 o’r blynyddoedd hynny. Ni allai gredu’r gwahaniaeth yr oedd Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru wedi’i wneud yn ei broffesiwn dros y tair blynedd diwethaf. Erbyn hyn teimlai fod angen y corff hwn gan y byddai’n gallu dylanwadu ar faterion. Gallai weld bod pethau’n newid er gwell a theimlai’n frwd ynghylch bod yn weithiwr gofal iechyd proffesiynol yn y wlad hon.

Cynog Dafis spoken in English p. 79

Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 79

Did he say ‘Welsh Assembly Government’ or ‘devolution’?

Ai ‘Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru’ a ddywedodd ynteu ‘datganoli’?

Kirsty Williams spoken in English p. 79

Kirsty Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 79

He said that he was enthusiastic about the free eyecare initiatives that this Welsh Assembly Government had introduced over the last three years. He wanted more of what this Government was doing for his profession and his patients. That has been echoed by dentists, who can now treat people for free. The emphasis on prevention of ill health has been underlined by freezing prescription charges for the last three years and abolishing charges for those who may not be able to afford them.

Dywedodd ei fod yn teimlo’n frwd ynghylch y mentrau gofal llygaid am ddim a gyflwynodd y Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru hon dros y tair blynedd diwethaf. Yr oedd am gael rhagor o’r hyn yr oedd y Llywodraeth hon yn ei wneud dros ei broffesiwn a’i gleifion. Ategwyd hynny gan ddeintyddion, sydd bellach yn gallu trin pobl am ddim. Cadarnhawyd y pwyslais ar atal iechyd gwael drwy rewi taliadau presgripsiwn yn y tair blynedd diwethaf a dileu taliadau ar gyfer y rhai na allent eu fforddio.

The overriding success of this coalition Government has been to bring stability to this fledgling institution. Goodness only knows what would have happened had we continued with an unstable situation. If people worry about whether or not this institution is credible, that would have been even more questionable had we continued with such an unstable situation. During the last three years we have made this institution a stable one that can begin to deliver for the people of Wales.

Prif lwyddiant y Llywodraeth glymblaid hon yw ei bod wedi dod â sefydlogrwydd i’r egin-sefydliad hwn. Duw a ŵyr beth fyddai wedi digwydd pe byddem wedi parhau â sefyllfa ansefydlog. Os yw pobl yn poeni a yw’r sefydliad hwn yn gredadwy, buasai hynny’n fwy amheus byth pe byddem wedi parhau â sefyllfa mor ansefydlog. Yn ystod y tair blynedd diwethaf yr ydym wedi gwneud y sefydliad hwn yn un sefydlog sy’n gallu dechrau cyflawni dros bobl Cymru.

As always, much has been made today of the health service. What Dai said is true; you cannot avoid the fact that there are people waiting too long for treatment. However, I have not heard any ideas from Plaid Cymru and the Conservaties on how they would tackle these problems. How would Dai Lloyd train a doctor or nurse quicker? The truth is that we are training 181 more doctors, and not only in Cardiff. There are new developments in Swansea and, hopefully, there will be some in north Wales. The coalition is training 200 more nurses per year than were being trained in 1990. We are employing more staff in the NHS. General pracitioner numbers have increased. We heard a few days ago about the 100 new entrants to the profession who were attracted to Wales and the 400 extra GPs who had been persuaded to stay on. The number of consultants has increased by around 5 per cent. However, given our legacy of ill health and the inheritance left by the Tory Government—70 hospitals were closed, 7,000 beds were lost and there were cuts in the number of staff trained and in training places—there is little wonder that we are struggling to overcome some of these problems.

Rhoddwyd llawer o sylw heddiw, fel y gwneir erioed, i’r gwasanaeth iechyd. Mae’r hyn a ddywedodd Dai yn wir; ni ellir osgoi’r ffaith bod pobl sy’n aros yn rhy hir am driniaeth. Fodd bynnag, ni chlywais unrhyw syniadau gan Blaid Cymru a’r Ceidwadwyr am y modd y byddent hwy’n ymdrin â’r problemau hyn. Sut y byddai Dai Lloyd yn hyfforddi meddyg neu nyrs yn gyflymach? Y gwir yw ein bod yn hyfforddi 181 yn rhagor o feddygon, ac nid yng Nghaerdydd yn unig. Mae datblygiadau newydd yn Abertawe a, gobeithio, bydd rhai yn y Gogledd. Mae’r glymblaid yn hyfforddi 200 yn rhagor o nyrsys y flwyddyn nag a hyfforddwyd yn 1990. Yr ydym yn cyflogi rhagor o staff yn y GIG. Bu cynnydd yn nifer y meddygon teulu. Clywsom ychydig ddyddiau’n ôl am y 100 o bobl sydd newydd ymuno â’r proffesiwn a ddenwyd i Gymru a’r 400 ychwanegol o feddygon teulu a ddarbwyllwyd i aros yn eu gwaith. Mae nifer yr ymgynghorwyr wedi codi gan tua 5 y cant. Serch hynny, o ystyried ein hanes o iechyd gwael a’r hyn a adawyd gan y Llywodraeth Dorïaidd—caewyd 70 o ysbytai, collwyd 7,000 o welyau a bu toriadau yn nifer y staff a hyfforddwyd a nifer y lleoedd hyfforddi—nid oes ryfedd ein bod yn cael trafferth i oresgyn rhai o’r problemau hyn.

David Melding spoken in English p. 80

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 80

Seventy hospitals? We only have 15.

Deg ysbyty a thrigain? Dim ond 15 sydd gennym.

Kirsty Williams spoken in English p. 80

Kirsty Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 80

That includes community hospitals. The number of beds and available staff are increasing and we are beginning to see progress in cardiac and orthopaedic surgery and progress on waiting times in accident and emergency departments.

Mae hynny’n cynnwys ysbytai cymunedol. Mae cynnydd yn nifer y gwelyau a nifer y staff sydd ar gael ac yr ydym yn dechrau gweld cynnydd mewn llawdriniaeth gardïaidd ac orthopedig a chynnydd ar amseroedd aros mewn adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys.

Dai mentioned restructuring. He is entitled to disagree with the Welsh Assembly Government’s policy, but at least that policy is clear. The same cannot be said for Plaid Cymru’s policy. It welcomed the abolition of the health authorities and criticised the Assembly for going further by getting rid of the trusts. Some months later, it criticised us for getting rid of the health authorities because of a lack of stability, while still proposing to get rid of trusts. The day after Ieuan Wyn Jones stated that there would be no reorganisation under a Plaid Cymru administration, it published a health policy paper that advocated five possible options for restructuring. For Dai Lloyd to turn around and criticise a policy of restructuring is pretty rich when his party would have overseen more radical restructuring.

Soniodd Dai am ailstrwythuro. Mae ganddo hawl i anghytuno â pholisi Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru, ond mae’r polisi hwnnw’n glir o leiaf. Ni ellir dweud hynny am bolisi Plaid Cymru. Croesawodd ddiddymu’r awdurdodau iechyd a beirniadodd y Cynulliad am fynd ymhellach drwy gael gwared â’r ymddiriedolaethau. Rai misoedd yn ddiweddarach, fe’n beirniadodd am gael gwared â’r awdurdodau iechyd oherwydd diffyg sefydlogrwydd, er ei bod yn dal i gynnig cael gwared â’r ymddiriedolaethau. Drannoeth datganiad Ieuan Wyn Jones na fyddai ail-drefnu o dan weinyddiaeth Plaid Cymru, cyhoeddodd bapur polisi iechyd a oedd yn argymell pum dewis posibl ar gyfer ailstrwythuro. Mae braidd yn ormod i Dai Lloyd ddechrau beirniadu polisi o ailstrwythuro tra byddai ei blaid ef wedi goruchwylio ailstrwythuro mwy sylfaenol.

Nick Bourne talked about rural Wales and stated that this Assembly Government had done nothing to help rural communities. What we have done is in stark contrast to what the Tories did. They cut 25 per cent off less favoured area payments to farmers, oversaw the disaster of BSE and closed rural schools. In contrast, the Assembly has a rural schools policy that I know works—two primary schools in my own constituency have been saved by it. We have set up an independent appeals panel, Farming Connect and are a Government that is committed to keeping services in rural areas—

Soniodd Nick Bourne am y Gymru wledig a dywedodd nad oedd y Llywodraeth Cynulliad hon wedi gwneud dim i helpu cymunedau gwledig. Mae’r hyn a wnaethom ni’n dra gwahanol i’r hyn a wnaeth y Torïaid. Gwnaethant gwtogi taliadau ardal llai ffafriol i ffermwyr gan 25 y cant, a goruchwylio trychineb BSE a chau ysgolion gwledig. Mewn cyferbyniad i hynny, mae gan y Cynulliad bolisi ysgolion gwledig y gwn ei fod yn gweithio—achubwyd dwy ysgol gynradd yn fy etholaeth i drwyddo. Yr ydym wedi sefydlu panel apelau annibynnol, Cyswllt Ffermio ac yr ydym yn Llywodraeth sydd wedi ymrwymo i gadw gwasanaethau mewn ardaloedd gwledig—

David Davies a gododd—

David Davies rose—

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 81

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 81

Order. You must wind up now, Kirsty.

Trefn. Rhaid ichi derfynu’n awr, Kirsty.

Kirsty Williams spoken in English p. 81

Kirsty Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 81

I am sorry, David, I have been asked to finish.

Mae’n ddrwg gennyf, David, gofynnwyd imi orffen.

We have heard nothing but a list of rants from both opposition parties. We have not heard once what Plaid Cymru or the Tories would do. In contrast, we have been able to demonstrate, as a Welsh Assembly Government, what positive steps the Assembly can take. Plaid Cymru would take us down the road to independence, which would never deliver these measures, and the Tories in London would never give us the cash, let alone the powers, to take matters further.

Ni chlywsom ddim ond arthio gan y ddwy wrthblaid. Ni chlywsom unwaith beth a wnâi Plaid Cymru neu’r Torïaid. Mewn cyferbyniad i hynny, yr ydym ni wedi gallu dangos, fel Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru, y camau cadarnhaol y gall y Cynulliad eu cymryd. Byddai Plaid Cymru yn mynd â ni ar hyd y ffordd i annibyniaeth, na fyddai byth yn cyflawni’r mesurau hyn, ac ni fyddai’r Torïaid yn Llundain byth yn rhoi’r arian angenrheidiol i ni, heb sôn am y pwerau, i fynd â materion ymhellach.

Jocelyn Davies spoken in English p. 81

Jocelyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 81

In the Chamber we all know in our hearts that central Government has not served Wales well, otherwise there would not be widespread poverty and appalling health inequalities in Wales and, let us face it, devolution would never have happened and we would not be having this debate today. Most of us would agree that waiting for central Government to address our needs might test our patience somewhat. That is why we in Plaid Cymru call for constitutional change. We have been accused of having a confused policy on our preferred future for Wales, so I will cut to the chase and take the opportunity to clarify it for you.

Yn y Siambr yr ydym oll yn gwybod yn ein calonnau nad yw Llywodraeth ganolog wedi gwasanaethu Cymru’n dda, oherwydd fel arall ni fyddai tlodi’n gyffredin ac ni fyddai anghydraddoldebau iechyd gwarthus yng Nghymru a, gadewch inni wynebu’r ffaith, ni fyddai datganoli erioed wedi digwydd ac ni fyddem yn cael y ddadl hon heddiw. Cytunai’r rhan fwyaf ohonom y byddai disgwyl i Lywodraeth ganolog ymdrin â’n hanghenion yn trethu ein hamynedd braidd. Dyna pam yr ydym ni ym Mhlaid Cymru yn galw am newid cyfansoddiadol. Fe’n cyhuddwyd o fod â pholisi dryslyd ar y dyfodol y carem ei weld i Gymru, felly af yn syth ymlaen i achub ar y cyfle i’w egluro i chi.

We want Wales to have its own proper parliament. That is the only sensible way forward. The current settlement is too weak and gave us powers historically intended to implement the will of the Government of the day in London. It is also too complex and simply not fit-for-purpose. In short, it fails to meet our specific needs and to give us the necessary tools to tackle the problems that many of our communities face daily. A proper parliament would have the potential, over time, to transform Wales in ways that Westminster simply would not begin to think about. That is Plaid Cymru’s vision—Wales as a vibrant, confident nation with a prosperous future. [Interruption.]

Dymunwn i Gymru gael senedd iawn iddi’i hun. Dyna’r unig ffordd synhwyrol ymlaen. Mae’r setliad presennol yn rhy wan a rhoddodd bwerau i ni a fwriadwyd yn hanesyddol i gyflawni ewyllys Llywodraeth y dydd yn Llundain. Mae hefyd yn rhy gymhleth ac yn anaddas i’w ddiben. Yn fyr, mae’n methu â diwallu ein hanghenion penodol a rhoi’r offer angenrheidiol i fynd i’r afael â’r problemau y mae llawer o’n cymunedau’n eu hwynebu bob dydd. Byddai potensial gan senedd iawn i drawsnewid Cymru, dros amser, mewn moddau na fyddai San Steffan yn eu hystyried o gwbl. Dyna weledigaeth Plaid Cymru—Cymru sy’n genedl egnïol a hyderus ac iddi ddyfodol llewyrchus [Torri ar draws.]

I only have three minutes in which to speak. Other people have wasted time and I do not intend to do so. Without our own parliament, we cannot achieve that. You must also believe in the Welsh people who, I can assure you, are neither stupid nor lazy. Depending on the success of the parliament, we would expect incremental growth in our competencies as and when needs arise, as envisaged in the Scottish Parliament’s case.

Dim ond tair munud sydd gennyf i siarad. Mae eraill wedi gwastraffu amser ac ni fwriadaf wneud hynny. Heb gael ein senedd ein hun, ni allwn gyflawni hynny. Rhaid ichi hefyd gredu ym mhobl Cymru, sydd heb fod yn dwp nac yn ddiog, gallaf eich sicrhau. Yn amodol ar lwyddiant y senedd, byddem yn disgwyl cynnydd graddol yn ein galluoedd yn ôl yr angen, fel y rhagwelwyd yn achos Senedd yr Alban.

Our longer-term ambition of full national status in the European Union is based entirely on the sovereignty of the people and therefore requires a referendum, as a matter of principle. That is a perfectly credible position to take. We cannot specify now what full national status in the European Union will entail in years to come, as no-one knows what the EU will be like in future. However, I can offer you the two alternatives put to Plaid Cymru members. First, a nation region in a decentralised and reformed EU or, secondly, a full member state in our own right. Plaid Cymru sees the second option as being the most likely.

Mae ein huchelgais tymor hir o gael statws cenedlaethol llawn yn yr Undeb Ewropeaidd wedi’i seilio’n gyfan gwbl ar sofraniaeth y bobl ac mae felly’n gofyn refferendwm, fel mater o egwyddor. Mae hwnnw’n safbwynt cwbl gredadwy. Ni allwn bennu’n awr beth a olyga statws cenedlaethol llawn yn yr Undeb Ewropeaidd ymhen blynyddoedd, gan na ŵyr neb sut fath o beth fydd yr UE yn y dyfodol. Er hynny, gallaf gynnig ichi’r ddau ddewis a roddwyd i aelodau Plaid Cymru. Yn gyntaf, cenedl ranbarth mewn UE datganoledig a diwygiedig neu, yn ail, aelod wladwriaeth lawn drwy ei hawl ei hun. Mae Plaid Cymru yn ystyied mai’r ail ddewis yw’r un mwyaf tebygol.

Why Wales cannot aspire to that position escapes me. You may criticise our policy, but Labour does not even have a policy. You are too afraid—

Ni allaf ddeall pam na chaiff hynny fod yn uchelgais i Gymru. Cewch feirniadu ein polisi, ond nid oes polisi gan Lafur hyd yn oed. Mae arnoch ormod o ofn—

Lorraine Barrett a gododd—

Lorraine Barrett rose—

Jocelyn Davies spoken in English p. 83

Jocelyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 83

I am not allowing an intervention. You must ask the Deputy Presiding Officer if you wish to speak.

Nid wyf yn caniatáu ymyriad. Rhaid ichi ofyn i’r Dirprwy Lywydd os ydych yn dymuno siarad.

Labour is too afraid to even hold a debate. That is why we are in this mess. Be honest—the Assembly is the result of a compromise between those in Labour who have aspirations for Wales and those who see our deprivation as inevitable and our only future as going cap in hand to the British state. Labour can criticise our policy when it is prepared to take a position itself, but not before that. Not having a policy is a massive failure, and Labour always fails Wales.

Mae ar Lafur ormod o ofn cynnal dadl hyd yn oed. Dyna pam yr ydym wedi mynd i’r drafferth hon. Dywedwch y gwir—mae’r Cynulliad yn ganlyniad i gyfaddawd rhwng y rhai yn Llafur sydd ag uchelgeisiau i Gymru a’r rhai sy’n ystyried bod ein hamddifadedd yn anochel ac mai’r unig ddyfodol sydd i ni yw mynd â’n cap yn ein llaw at y wladwriaeth Brydeinig. Caiff Llafur feirniadu ein polisi pan yw’n barod i arddel safbwynt ei hun, ond nid cyn hynny. Mae bod heb bolisi’n fethiant aruthrol, ac mae Llafur yn siomi Cymru bob amser.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 83

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 83

I want to allow three or four other speakers if possible. I can only do that if Members speak for less than five minutes. I therefore appeal for brief speeches, and I would be grateful if speakers could limit themselves to four minutes. However, the time limit is five minutes if any Member wishes to take up the full time.

Yr wyf am ganiatáu tri neu bedwar siaradwr arall os oes modd. Ni allaf ond gwneud hynny os bydd Aelodau’n siarad am lai na phum munud. Gan hynny, apeliaf am areithiau byr, a byddwn yn ddiolchgar os gallai siaradwyr eu cyfyngu eu hunain i bedair munud. Fodd bynnag, y terfyn amser yw pum munud os yw unrhyw Aelod yn dymuno defnyddio’r holl amser.

Lynne Neagle spoken in English p. 83

Lynne Neagle siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 83

The first question that springs to mind in this debate is, what is the alternative being offered by Plaid Cymru and the Conservatives? If this is an attempt to bring down the current administration, we are all entitled to ask what they would put in its place. The answer would presumably be a Tory/Plaid alliance giving Wales an Assembly Government led by Ieuan Wyn Jones—a man unable to lead his own party competently, let alone a coalition capable of spending £12 billion of taxpayers’ money. However, at least it would be a coalition of the forces of conservatism, united in their opposition to the redistribution of wealth and to social justice.

Y cwestiwn cyntaf a ddaw i’r meddwl yn y ddadl hon yw, beth yw’r dewis a gynigir gan Blaid Cymru a’r Ceidwadwyr? Os mai ymgais i ddymchwel y weinyddiaeth bresennol yw hon, mae gennym hawl i ofyn beth a roddent yn ei lle. Gellid cymryd mai’r ateb fyddai clymblaid Dorïaidd/Plaid Cymru a fyddai’n rhoi i Gymru Lywodraeth Cynulliad dan arweiniad Ieuan Wyn Jones—un nad yw’n fedrus wrth arwain ei blaid ei hun, heb sôn am glymblaid sydd â’r gallu i wario £12 biliwn o arian y trethdalwyr. Er hynny, o leiaf y byddai’n glymblaid o rymoedd ceidwadol, yn gytûn o ran eu gwrthwynebiad i ailddosbarthu cyfoeth a chyfiawnder cymdeithasol.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in English p. 84

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 84

As you have chosen possible coalition partners for the next Plaid Cymru Government in the National Assembly for Wales, will you enlighten us about this Tory partner? Would that be the New Labour Tory party, or would it be the Welsh Conservative Party?

Gan eich bod eisoes wedi dewis partneriaid clymblaid posibl i’r Llywodraeth Plaid Cymru nesaf yng Nghynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru, a wnewch ein goleuo ynghylch y partner Torïaidd hwn? Ai’r blaid Dorïaidd Llafur Newydd yw honno, ynteu Plaid Geidwadol Cymru?

Lynne Neagle spoken in English p. 84

Lynne Neagle siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 84

I think you know, Rhodri, which Tory party I mean.

Credaf eich bod yn gwybod pa blaid Dorïaidd a olygaf, Rhodri.

David Davies spoken in English p. 84

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 84

If I could clarify this—

Os caf egluro hyn—

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 84

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 84

Order. Are you giving way, Lynne?

Trefn. A ydych yn ildio, Lynne?

Lynne Neagle spoken in English p. 84

Lynne Neagle siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 84

No, I am not. Rhodri knows full well that I mean the Conservative Party. They would be united in their opposition to the redistribution of wealth and to social justice. For those communities in greatest need, a Plaid Cymru Government would be an even worse administration than the Conservative Governments of the 1980s and 1990s, because it would be dishonest.

Nac ydwyf. Gŵyr Rhodri yn iawn mai’r Blaid Geidwadol a olygaf. Byddent yn gytûn o ran eu gwrthwynebiad i ailddosbarthu cyfoeth a chyfiawnder cymdeithasol. Yn achos y cymunedau mwyaf anghenus, byddai Llywodraeth Plaid Cymru yn weinyddiaeth waeth na Llywodraethau Ceidwadol y 1980au a’r 1990au hyd yn oed, gan y byddai’n anonest.

Geraint Davies a gododd—

Geraint Davies rose—

Lynne Neagle spoken in English p. 84

Lynne Neagle siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 84

I do not have time to give way. A Plaid Cymru Government would pay lip service to the needs of the most deprived communities, but in reality there would be less redistribution of wealth and less social justice. The reality of Plaid Cymru is that it is no more socialist than it is unionist.

Nid oes gennyf ddigon o amser i ildio. Byddai Llywodraeth Plaid Cymru yn talu gwasanaeth gwefusau i anghenion y cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig, ond mewn gwirionedd byddai llai o ailddosbarthu ar gyfoeth a llai o gyfiawnder cymdeithasol. Y gwir am Blaid Cymru yw nad yw’n sosialaidd ac nad yw’n unoliaethol ychwaith.

Geraint Davies a gododd—

Geraint Davies rose—

Lynne Neagle spoken in English p. 84

Lynne Neagle siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 84

I do not have time to give way. If Ieuan Wyn Jones’s speech yesterday is anything to go by, we know a good deal already about what Plaid’s priority would be, namely the constitution—that is, separation. Jocelyn has already made her feelings clear about the relationship with the United Kingdom. Separation first and delivering improvements on public services last would be the order of things under a Plaid administration.

Nid oes gennyf ddigon o amser i ildio. Os gellir barnu yn ôl araith Ieuan Wyn Jones ddoe, gwyddom lawer eisoes am yr hyn a fyddai’n flaenoriaeth gan Blaid Cymru, sef y cyfansoddiad—hynny yw, ymwahanu. Mae Jocelyn eisoes wedi egluro ei theimladau am y berthynas â’r Deyrnas Unedig. Ymwahanu’n gyntaf a chyflawni gwelliannau mewn gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yn olaf fyddai trefn pethau o dan weinyddiaeth Plaid Cymru.

However, I do not want to reserve my criticism for Plaid Cymru only. The Liberals too are guilty of having skewed priorities and of putting the need for constitutional tinkering ahead of delivering social justice. The Deputy First Minister believes that socialism is dead, and that it does not work. I look forward to him making that case to the people of Torfaen in the coming weeks. He will find that, far from being dead, the socialist values of my constituents—the values of social justice, community and mutuality—are alive and well in Torfaen. However, an Assembly Government should be tested on public services and, overall, this Labour administration has a good record in that area. Standards in education are rising across the board and real progress is being made in terms of tackling the shortage of basic skills. Unemployment today is at its lowest since the 1970s. Objective 1 has been successfully rolled out and implemented across Wales. In the former Gwent area, the money allocated to steel communities is helping workers in my constituency to find new jobs. All this is possible because the UK’s economic stability is allowing us to increase expenditure on public services at a time when other economies are contracting. Investment in public services is possible because of the partnership between Labour in Westminster and Labour in the Assembly. However, I have real concerns about the problems facing the NHS in Gwent and, in particular, the lack of capacity and the length of waiting times.

Fodd bynnag, nid wyf am neilltuo fy meirniadaeth i Blaid Cymru yn unig. Mae’r Rhyddfrydwyr hwythau’n euog o gamystumio blaenoriaethau ac o roi’r angen am dincera cyfansoddiadol o flaen sicrhau cyfiawnder cymdeithasol. Mae’r Dirprwy Brif Weinidog yn credu bod sosialaeth wedi marw, ac nad yw’n gweithio. Edrychaf ymlaen at ei weld yn cyflwyno’r ddadl honno i bobl Tor-faen yn yr wythnosau i ddod. Bydd yn cael bod gwerthoedd sosialaidd fy etholwyr—gwerthoedd cyfiawnder cymdeithasol, cymuned a chydymddibyniaeth—yn bell o fod yn farw, a’u bod yn fyw ac yn iach yn Nhor-faen. Er hynny, dylid profi Llywodraeth Cynulliad ar wasanaethau cyhoeddus ac, at ei gilydd, mae gan y weinyddiaeth Lafur hon record dda yn y maes hwnnw. Mae safonau mewn addysg yn codi’n gyffredinol a gwneir gwir gynnydd o ran ymdrin â phrinder sgiliau sylfaenol. Mae diweithdra heddiw ar ei isaf ers y 1970au. Mae Amcan 1 wedi’i sefydlu’n llwyddiannus a’i weithredu ledled Cymru. Yn yr hen Went, mae’r arian a ddyrannwyd i gymunedau dur yn helpu gweithwyr yn fy etholaeth i ddod o hyd i swyddi newydd. Mae hyn oll yn bosibl am fod sefydlogrwydd economaidd y DU yn caniatáu inni gynyddu’r gwariant ar wasanaethau cyhoeddus ar adeg pan yw economïau eraill yn crebachu. Mae buddsoddi mewn gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yn bosibl oherwydd y bartneriaeth rhwng Llafur yn San Steffan a Llafur yn y Cynulliad. Fodd bynnag, mae gennyf bryderon gwirioneddol ynghylch y problemau sy’n wynebu’r GIG yng Ngwent ac, yn benodol, prinder capasiti a hyd amseroedd aros.

Janet Davies a gododd—

Janet Davies rose—

Lynne Neagle spoken in English p. 85

Lynne Neagle siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 85

I do not have time for an intervention, Janet.

Nid oes gennyf ddigon o amser i dderbyn ymyriad, Janet.

I know that the Minister for Health and Social Services is well aware of these problems and that she is committed to delivering the improvements needed in Gwent. I hope that the review initiated by Jane Hutt, and conducted by Professor Brian Edwards, into waiting times will bring about real improvements. The work of Derek Wanless, which was also initiated by a Labour administration, is equally as important. Wanless must quickly get to grips with the problems facing the service in Gwent. I hope that he will take time to meet staff and patients in Gwent to hear at first hand the problems facing the service, and, in particular, consider why Labour’s record investment is not delivering the necessary improvements. Despite these problems, one point is clear: investment in, and reform of, our public services can only, and will only, be delivered by a Labour Government. Plaid Cymru must state how it would be able to put a penny into public services in an independent Wales. It has never given an answer to that question. In the run up to the election, it is time for Plaid Cymru to be honest with the electorate and answer these questions.

Gwn fod y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol yn ymwybodol iawn o’r problemau hyn a’i bod wedi ymrwymo i gyflawni’r gwelliannau sydd eu hangen yng Ngwent. Gobeithiaf y bydd yr adolygiad a gychwynnwyd gan Jane Hutt, ac a gynhaliwyd gan yr Athro Brian Edwards, ar amseroedd aros yn peri gwelliannau gwirioneddol. Mae’r gwaith a wnaed gan Derek Wanless, a gychwynnwyd gan weinyddiaeth Lafur hefyd, yr un mor bwysig. Rhaid i Wanless fynd i’r afael yn fuan â’r problemau sy’n wynebu’r gwasanaeth yng Ngwent. Gobeithiaf y bydd yn neilltuo amser i gwrdd â staff a chleifion yng Ngwent i glywed am y problemau sy’n wynebu’r gwasanaeth o lygad y ffynnon ac, yn benodol, i ystyried pam nad yw’r buddsoddiad mwyaf erioed gan Lafur yn peri’r gwelliannau sydd eu hangen. Er gwaethaf y problemau hyn, mae un pwynt yn amlwg: dim ond Llywodraeth Lafur a all fuddsoddi yn ein gwasanaethau cyhoeddus a’u diwygio. Rhaid i Blaid Cymru ddatgan sut y gallai roi ceiniog at wasanaethau cyhoeddus mewn Cymru annibynnol. Nid yw erioed wedi ateb y cwestiwn hwnnw. Wrth ddynesu at yr etholiad, mae’n bryd i Blaid Cymru ddweud y gwir wrth yr etholwyr ac ateb y cwestiynau hyn.

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 86

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 86

[Applause.] That makes a change. I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak in this debate. It was my ambition to speak in the Chamber on the first day of the new term; it was not an ambition that I was remotely expecting to be able to achieve when I spoke in the last debate at the end of the last session. Situations sometimes turn out to be a little better than one expects, which is perhaps more than you can say for the coalition Government. [Laughter.] I have been keen to speak—against the odds perhaps—in order to demonstrate my commitment, as a Conservative, to the success of the National Assembly for Wales and to doing what I can to make devolution a success. Too often, I have heard other Assembly Members from other parties make the wholly unjustified assertion that, because we were not in favour of devolution, it somehow follows that we do not want the process to succeed. It sometimes seems to me that the Conservative Party is the only party that properly understands what is needed for success and understands that any effective system of Government requires the juxtaposition of thesis and antithesis as a test of the effectiveness of Government proposals. Regrettably, the other opposition party has always seemed a little ineffective and has never been able to fully make up its mind about its role in the Assembly—it only seems to be wholly content when discussing constitutional concepts that are not on anyone else’s agenda.

[Cymeradwyaeth.] Mae hynny’n beth newydd. Yr wyf yn falch o gael y cyfle i siarad yn y ddadl hon. Yr oedd yn uchelgais gennyf siarad yn y Siambr ar ddiwrnod cyntaf y tymor newydd; yr oedd yn uchelgais yr oeddwn yn bell o ddisgwyl gallu ei gyflawni pan siaradais yn y ddadl ddiwethaf ar ddiwedd y sesiwn diwethaf. Mae sefyllfaoedd weithiau’n diweddu’n well na’r disgwyl, sy’n fwy efallai nag y gellir ei ddweud am y Llywodraeth glymblaid. [Chwerthin.] Bûm yn awyddus i siarad—er gwaethaf pob disgwyl efallai—er mwyn dangos fy ymrwymiad, fel Ceidwadwr, i lwyddiant Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru ac i wneud yr hyn a allaf i wneud datganoli’n llwyddiant. Yn rhy aml, clywais Aelodau eraill o’r Cynulliad mewn pleidiau eraill yn haeru’n gwbl annheg ei bod yn dilyn rywsut, am nad oeddem o blaid datganoli, nad ydym am i’r broses lwyddo. Ymddengys imi weithiau mai’r Blaid Geidwadol yw’r unig blaid sy’n deall yn iawn beth sydd ei angen i lwyddo ac sy’n deall bod unrhyw system Lywodraeth effeithiol yn gofyn cyfosod gosodiad a gwrthosodiad i roi prawf ar effeithiolrwydd cynigion Llywodraeth. Gwaetha’r modd, mae’r wrthblaid arall wedi ymddangos braidd yn aneffeithiol erioed ac nid yw erioed wedi gallu penderfynu’n iawn beth yw ei rôl yn y Cynulliad—nid yw ond yn ymddangos yn gwbl fodlon pan yw’n trafod cysyniadau cyfansoddiadol nad ydynt ar agenda neb arall.

The subject of today’s debate is the performance of the coalition Government, which has been a huge disappointment to the people of Wales. No-one—with the exception of the most dyed-in-the-wool, tribal Labour or Liberal Democrat supporter—can have anything but disparaging words for the coalition Government’s abject performance. I do not want to introduce a sour note on this, our first day back, but, because of the way in which governments are strongly linked to the image of their leader, I must also refer to the First Minister’s disappointing performance—it is a pity that he is not here. In my region of Mid and West Wales, the most commented upon features of the Assembly’s first term have been Rhodri Morgan’s obsession with the south-east corner of Wales, and, even worse, his indecisiveness, which have caused disappointment. The biggest disappointment for me with regard to the coalition Government has been the wasted opportunity to make any real difference or to deliver any significant outcomes with what has been a hugely increasing budget. The Assembly’s first three years have coincided with a large increase in public spending as the Chancellor of the Exchequer has massively increased tax and spend policies throughout Britain; the Barnett formula has consequently delivered extra billions to the coalition Government. There have been some new initiatives, but none that have made the people of Wales feel that the National Assembly has made a real difference to their lives. There has been more spending but no better outcomes. The opportunity has been hugely wasted. Perhaps the worst example of how the First Minister’s indecisiveness has damaged Wales has been the progress—if that is the correct word—of the new Assembly building. The Welsh Conservative group was not in favour of the project and did not want it to proceed. However, a course of action that was much worse than building it was to start building it, to stop and dither a while, to start and stop again and dither a while longer, to see the costs fly up and to then eventually build it at a huge extra cost after making Wales, and its National Assembly, a laughing stock across Britain. The First Minister is responsible for that outcome.

Pwnc y ddadl heddiw yw perfformiad y Llywodraeth glymblaid, a fu’n siom ddirfawr i bobl Cymru. Wfftio a wnaiff pawb—heblaw am gefnogwyr mwyaf rhonc a theyrngar Llafur neu’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol—at berfformiad truenus y Llywodraeth glymblaid. Nid wyf am daro nodyn sur ar ein diwrnod cyntaf yn ôl ond, am fod cysylltiad cryf rhwng llywodraethau a delwedd eu harweinydd, rhaid imi gyfeirio hefyd at berfformiad siomedig y Prif Weinidog—mae’n drueni nad yw yma. Yn fy rhanbarth i, Canolbarth a Gorllewin Cymru, yr agweddau ar dymor cyntaf y Cynulliad y sylwyd arnynt amlaf oedd obsesiwn Rhodri Morgan â chornel dde-ddwyreiniol Cymru ac, yn waeth byth, ei amhendantrwydd, sydd wedi peri siom. Y siom fwyaf i mi mewn cysylltiad â’r Llywodraeth glymblaid yw’r gwastraffu ar y cyfle i wneud unrhyw wahaniaeth gwirioneddol neu i sicrhau unrhyw ganlyniadau o bwys gyda chyllideb sydd wedi cynyddu’n aruthrol. Mae tair blynedd cyntaf y Cynulliad wedi cyd-daro â chynnydd mawr mewn gwario cyhoeddus gan fod Canghellor y Trysorlys wedi cynyddu polisïau trethu a gwario’n aruthrol ledled Prydain; o ganlyniad i hynny, mae fformiwla Barnett wedi rhoi biliynau ychwanegol i’r Llywodraeth glymblaid. Bu rhai mentrau newydd, ond dim un sydd wedi peri i bobl Cymru deimlo bod y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol wedi gwneud gwir wahaniaeth yn eu bywydau. Bu rhagor o wario ond dim canlyniadau gwell. Gwastraffwyd cyfle mawr iawn. Efallai mai’r enghraifft waethaf o’r modd y mae amhendantrwydd y Prif Weinidog wedi niweidio Cymru yw’r cynnydd—os mai hwnnw yw’r gair iawn—ar adeilad newydd y Cynulliad. Nid oedd grŵp Ceidwadwyr Cymru o blaid y prosiect ac nid oedd am iddo fynd ymlaen. Fodd bynnag, cwrs gweithredu a oedd yn waeth o lawer na’i adeiladu oedd dechrau ei adeiladu, stopio a phetruso am ychydig, a dechrau a stopio eto a phetruso ychydig yn hwy, a gweld y costau’n codi i’r entrychion ac yn y diwedd ei godi ar gost ychwanegol anferth ar ôl gwneud Cymru, a’i Chynulliad Cenedlaethol, yn destun sbort ledled Prydain. Mae’r Prif Weinidog yn gyfrifol am y canlyniad hwnnw.

The coalition has been a real mess. The First Minister has put himself in a position of being regularly humiliated by his own side. The Deputy First Minister claims every success, however minor, for his party of political opportunists while blaming every problem on the First Minister, who then promptly passes them on to the most convenient Labour Minister.

Bu’r glymblaid yn llanastr go-iawn. Mae’r Prif Weinidog wedi ei roi ei hun mewn sefyllfa lle y caiff ei iselhau’n rheolaidd gan ei ochr ei hun. Mae’r Dirprwy Brif Weinidog yn hawlio’r clod am bob llwyddiant, ni waeth pa mor fach, i’w blaid o fanteiswyr gwleidyddol gan roi’r bai am bob problem ar y Prif Weinidog, sy’n trosglwyddo hwnnw’n ddiymdroi wedyn i’r Gweinidog Llafur mwyaf cyfleus.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 88

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 88

It is Carwyn today.

Carwyn ydyw heddiw.

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 88

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 88

No, it is not Carwyn yet.

Nage, nid Carwyn eto.

I have always accepted that coalitions can be an inevitable part of constitutional arrangements such as those that we have in Wales under the devolution settlement. However, a coalition needs two committed partners, which we do not have. It also needs a leader with some grip on what is happening; we do not have that either. It seems that the only purpose of this coalition is to retain power and not deliver good government. The only logical electoral consequence of the National Assembly’s first years is that there should be a massive increase in the number of Conservative Assembly Members following the election in May.

Yr wyf yn derbyn erioed y gall clymbleidiau fod yn rhan anorfod o drefniadau cyfansoddiadol fel y rhai sydd gennym yng Nghymru o dan yr ardrefniant datganoli. Fodd bynnag, rhaid wrth ddau bartner ymroddedig i wneud clymblaid, ac nid ydynt gennym. Rhaid cael arweinydd sydd â rhyw fath o afael ar yr hyn sy’n digwydd hefyd; nid yw hynny gennym ychwaith. Ymddengys mai unig bwrpas y glymblaid hon yw cadw pŵer ac nid cyflawni llywodraeth dda. Yr unig ganlyniad etholiadol rhesymegol i flynyddoedd cyntaf y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol yw y dylid cael cynnydd aruthrol yn nifer yr Aelodau Cynulliad Ceidwadol ar ôl yr etholiad ym Mai.

It would be wrong of me to pre-judge the electorate’s opinion, but I am grateful to Plaid Cymru for giving us the opportunity today to point out to the people of Wales what an absolute disaster the Labour/Liberal Democrat coalition Government has been thus far.

Byddai’n anghywir imi ragfarnu barn yr etholwyr, ond yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i Blaid Cymru am roi cyfle inni heddiw i dynnu sylw pobl Cymru at y ffaith bod y Llywodraeth glymblaid Llafur/Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol wedi bod yn drychineb llwyr hyd yn hyn.

Janice Gregory spoken in English p. 88

Janice Gregory siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 88

It is wonderful to see Glyn back in the National Assembly after Christmas. He and his colleagues should make the most of their time here because they will not be back in May.

Mae’n ardderchog gweld Glyn yn ôl yn y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol ar ôl y Nadolig. Dylai ef a’i gyd-Aelodau wneud yn fawr o’u hamser yma oherwydd ni fyddant yn dychwelyd ym mis Mai.

Plaid Cymru’s motion clearly demonstrates that the opposition party in the Assembly is out of touch with people in my constituency. It is obsessed with constitutional navel-gazing rather than the issues that really matter to ordinary people in their day-to-day lives. I regret that there was a reference to the people of Wales being stupid and lazy: that is certainly not the case in my constituency.

Mae cynnig Plaid Cymru yn dangos yn glir nad yw’r wrthblaid yn y Cynulliad mewn cysylltiad â phobl yn fy etholaeth i. Mae ganddi obsesiwn â bogailsyllu cyfansoddiadol yn hytrach na’r materion sydd o bwys gwirioneddol i bobl gyffredin yn eu bywyd pob dydd. Mae’n ofid imi fod cyfeiriad wedi bod at bobl Cymru fel rhai twp a diog: nid yw hynny’n wir yn fy etholaeth i, yn sicr.

The Labour-led Welsh Assembly Government, working in partnership with the Labour Government in Westminster, has a record of delivering on issues that are really important to the people of Ogmore and Wales. I draw attention to the Government’s economic development initiatives, which have had a tremendous impact in my constituency. The Government’s support for the Ford Motor Company plant in Bridgend—it is outside the Ogmore boundary, but is nevertheless one of my constituency’s major employers—is one of its greatest successes. A regional selective assistance grant from the Assembly Government has supported 640 new jobs at the plant. These are highly-skilled jobs for local people. Is Labour failing Wales, Jocelyn? I do not think so. A similar grant for Irvin-GQ Ltd will assist in expanding the company’s operation and in doubling its local workforce. It will also assist its relocation into a deprived valley desperately in need of jobs and investment. These are also local jobs for local people. Is Labour failing Wales? I do not think so. As I have said on many occasions in the Chamber, the Assembly Government, through RSA, has been instrumental in securing hundreds of jobs at the Georgia Pacific paper mill in the Llynfi valley. When I visited the plant with the Minister for Economic Development before Christmas, the reception given by the management and the workers to a Government Minister could not have been warmer. Is Labour failing Wales? Definitely not. A film studio worth £1 billion is being developed in the south of my constituency bringing thousands more jobs and international prestige to the area. All these developments are good news for local people. Is Labour failing Wales? Definitely not.

Mae gan Lywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru dan arweiniad Llafur, sy’n gweithio mewn partneriaeth â’r Llywodraeth Lafur yn San Steffan, record o fynd â’r maen i’r wal ar faterion sydd o bwys gwirioneddol i bobl Ogwr a Chymru. Tynnaf sylw at fentrau datblygu economaidd y Llywodraeth, a gafodd effaith aruthrol ar fy etholaeth i. Cefnogaeth y Llywodraeth i waith Ford Motor Company ym Mhen-y-bont ar Ogwr—mae y tu allan i ffin Ogwr, ond yn un o brif gyflogwyr fy etholaeth i, er hynny—yw un o’i llwyddiannau mwyaf. Mae grant cymorth rhanbarthol dewisol gan Lywodraeth y Cynulliad wedi helpu i greu 640 o swyddi newydd yn y gwaith hwn. Swyddi sy’n gofyn sgiliau uchel i bobl leol yw’r rhain. A yw Llafur yn siomi Cymru, Jocelyn? Ni chredaf hynny. Bydd grant tebyg i Irvin-GQ Cyf yn helpu i ehangu gweithrediad y cwmni ac i ddyblu ei weithlu lleol. Bydd hefyd yn ei helpu i ail-leoli mewn cwm difreintiedig y mae arno daer angen swyddi a buddsoddiad. Swyddi lleol i bobl leol yw’r rhain hefyd. A yw Llafur yn siomi Cymru? Ni chredaf hynny. Fel y dywedais ar lawer achlysur yn y Siambr, mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad, drwy gymorth rhanbarthol dewisol, wedi bod yn gyfrwng i sicrhau cannoedd o swyddi ym melin bapur Georgia Pacific yng nghwm Llynfi. Pan ymwelais â’r gwaith gyda’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd cyn y Nadolig, ni allesid cael croeso gwresocach i Weinidog Llywodraeth na’r un a roddwyd gan y rheolwyr a’r gweithwyr. A yw Llafur yn siomi Cymru? Nac ydyw’n sicr. Datblygir stiwdio ffilm werth £1 biliwn yn ne fy etholaeth i gan ddod â miloedd yn rhagor o swyddi a bri rhyngwladol i’r ardal. Mae’r holl ddatblygiadau hyn yn newyddion da i bobl leol. A yw Llafur yn siomi Cymru? Nac ydyw’n sicr.

Local people are not interested in political point—

Nid yw pobl leol yn ymddiddori mewn pwyntiau gwleidyddol—

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 89

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 89

I note that the Member highlighted that Labour is failing Wales and claimed—

Sylwaf fod yr Aelod wedi tynnu sylw at y ffaith bod Llafur yn siomi Cymru a’i bod wedi honni—

Janice Gregory spoken in English p. 89

Janice Gregory siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 89

I said that Labour is not failing Wales.

Dywedais nad yw Llafur yn siomi Cymru.

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 89

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 89

The Member claimed that Labour is not failing Wales. Does she accept that the Labour Party and the Liberal Democrat Party, as members of the coalition, have failed every single person on the NHS waiting list?

Honnodd yr Aelod nad yw Llafur yn siomi Cymru. A yw’n derbyn bod y Blaid Lafur a Phlaid y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol, fel aelodau o’r glymblaid, wedi siomi pob un sydd ar restr aros y GIG?

Janice Gregory spoken in English p. 90

Janice Gregory siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 90

That is incredible. The hypocrisy of the Tories in the Chamber is breathtaking. My constituents are amazed that, after 18 years of running down the health service from Westminster, the Tories can stand up and make such claims; what is most frightening is that the Tories believe in what they say. The record investment in the health service in the Ogmore constituency is evident in the Princess of Wales Hospital, Bridgend; as Alun knows, the Minister for Health and Social Services gave £2 million to that hospital to fund an MRI scanner. If you speak to the people who have benefited from that scanner, they will tell you whether Labour has failed them in Wales.

Mae hynny’n anhygoel. Mae rhagrith y Torïaid yn y Siambr yn syfrdanol. Mae fy etholwyr yn synnu, ar ôl 18 mlynedd o wanhau’r gwasanaeth iechyd o San Steffan, fod y Torïaid yn gallu sefyll ar eu traed a gwneud honiadau o’r fath; yr hyn sy’n fwyaf brawychus yw bod y Torïaid yn credu’r hyn a ddywedant. Mae’r buddsoddi mwyaf erioed yn y gwasanaeth iechyd yn etholaeth Ogwr i’w weld yn amlwg yn Ysbyty Tywysoges Cymru, Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr; fel y gŵyr Alun, rhoddodd y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol £2 filiwn i’r ysbyty hwnnw i gyllido sganiwr delweddu cyseiniant magnetig. Os siaradwch â’r bobl a gafodd fudd o’r sganiwr hwnnw, dywedant wrthych a yw Llafur wedi eu siomi yng Nghymru.

As I started to say earlier, local people are not interested in political point-scoring here. They are interested in practical actions and solid achievements from a Government that shares their priorities. The priorities on which this Government is delivering are jobs, public services and safe, strong communities.

Fel y dechreuais ei ddweud yn gynharach, nid yw pobl leol yn ymddiddori mewn sgorio pwyntiau gwleidyddol yn y fan hon. Ymddiddorant mewn camau ymarferol a chyflawniadau pendant gan Lywodraeth sydd â’r un blaenoriaethau â hwy. Y blaenoriaethau y mae’r Llywodraeth hon yn llwyddo ynddynt yw swyddi, gwasanaethau cyhoeddus a chymunedau cadarn, diogel.

The Assembly Government’s achievements are clear to my constituents, as is the ineptitude of an opposition that does not share their priorities.

Mae cyflawniadau Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn amlwg i’m hetholwyr i, fel y mae twpdra gwrthblaid nad yw’n rhannu eu blaenoriaethau.

Carwyn Jones The Business Minister spoken in English p. 90

Carwyn Jones Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 90

First, I welcome Glyn Davies back to the Chamber. Some things transcend politics, and it is a great pleasure to see Glyn back so soon. I am sure that we all wish him the best in his recovery, although I am embarrassing him now.

Yn gyntaf, croesawaf Glyn Davies yn ôl i’r Siambr. Mae rhai pethau uwchlaw gwleidyddiaeth, a phleser mawr yw gweld Glyn yn ei ôl mor fuan. Yr wyf yn sicr ein bod oll yn dymuno’r gorau iddo wrth iddo ymadfer, er fy mod yn peri iddo deimlo’n annifyr yn awr.

I welcome the launch of the election campaign in the Chamber today. I am amused that Plaid Cymru’s first strike was to criticise the Government’s name. I now list the arguments brought forward by the opposition parties: free bus passes for pensioners and the disabled are unnecessary; Assembly learning grants are useless; cheaper prescriptions and a widening of the categories of people entitled to free prescriptions are nonsensical; the abolition of league tables for primary schools is a joke; innovation and increased spending in rural areas is a waste; free school milk is a disaster; Objective 1 is pointless; Communities First is daft; and more money for local government is inefficient. That is what has been said on different sides of the Chamber. However, the people of Wales know full well that those parties’ claims are wrong. [ASSEMBLY MEMBERS: ‘Oh.’] That was a list of the arguments put forward by the opposition parties; I was merely paraphrasing them. The opposition parties seek to disparage all the good measures implemented by this coalition Government. The people of Wales will see through their arguments.

Croesawaf lansio’r ymgyrch etholiad yn y Siambr heddiw. Mae’n ddoniol mai’r ergyd gyntaf gan Blaid Cymru oedd beirniadu enw’r Llywodraeth. Yn awr, rhestraf y dadleuon a dducpwyd gerbron gan y gwrthbleidiau: mae tocynnau bws am ddim i bensiynwyr a’r anabl yn ddiangen; mae grantiau dysgu’r Cynulliad yn ofer; mae presgripsiynau rhatach ac ehangu’r categorïau o bobl sydd â hawl i gael presgripsiwn am ddim yn ddisynnwyr; mae dileu tablau cynghrair ar gyfer ysgolion cynradd yn destun sbort; mae arloesi a mwy o wario mewn ardaloedd gwledig yn wastraff; mae llaeth mewn ysgolion am ddim yn drychineb; mae Amcan 1 yn ddibwrpas; mae Cymunedau yn Gyntaf yn wirion; ac mae rhagor o arian i lywodraeth leol yn aneffeithlon. Dyna a ddywedwyd ar wahanol ochrau i’r Siambr. Fodd bynnag, gŵyr pobl Cymru’n iawn fod honiadau’r pleidiau hynny’n anghywir. [AELODAU’R CYNULLIAD: ‘O.’] Yr oedd honno’n rhestr o’r dadleuon a gyflwynwyd gan y gwrthbleidiau; nid oeddwn ond yn eu haralleirio. Mae’r gwrthbleidiau’n ceisio dilorni’r holl fesurau da a weithredwyd gan y Llywodraeth glymblaid hon. Bydd pobl Cymru’n gweld drwy eu dadleuon.

On health, there has been a 90 per cent reduction in the number of people waiting for orthopaedic surgery, and there are no patients waiting more than 12 months for cardiac surgery. The number of general practitioners has increased and we now have 100 more young GPs. Over the past two years, 173 more hospital beds have been provided. The Swansea medical school has been opened and medical education has also been extended to north Wales. Yet the opposition says that this is a disaster in terms of health.

Ynghylch iechyd, bu gostyngiad o 90 y cant yn nifer y bobl sy’n aros am lawdriniaeth orthopedig, ac nid oes unrhyw gleifion sy’n disgwyl yn hwy na 12 mis am lawdriniaeth gardiaidd. Bu cynnydd yn nifer yr ymarferwyr cyffredinol a bellach mae gennym 100 yn rhagor o feddygon teulu ifanc. Dros y ddwy flynedd diwethaf, darparwyd 173 yn rhagor o welyau ysbyty. Agorwyd ysgol feddygol Abertawe ac mae addysg feddygol wedi’i hymestyn i’r Gogledd. Ac eto dywed yr wrthblaid mai trychineb yw hyn o ran iechyd.

On the economy, the Assembly Government and the Westminster Government have worked to create a remarkable platform for success in Wales. Unemployment has been reduced to 3.6 per cent; for the first time in 30 years we can say that we have a full employment economy. In the depths of the many Tory recessions, there were long periods when over 10,000 young people were out of work for more than six months. The Tories created a generation of young people who believed that they had no hope and no future. That figure has now been reduced to less than 1,600; we have virtually eliminated youth unemployment in Wales. If you look around you will see hope and confidence among our young people, where there was once fear and despair. Since 1999, the number of jobs in Wales has increased by 37,000. There has been a remarkable growth in the number of jobs available in small and medium-sized enterprises. No-one can prevent all job losses or prevent the closure of a factory. We all regret the loss of jobs in many parts of Wales. However, government must create conditions where the economy prospers and ensure that the number of jobs available continues to increase. It cannot be claimed that the actions of this or any other Government could have prevented any of the job losses of the last few years. This Government is creating the conditions under which the Welsh economy can be improved and under which people will have the confidence to continue to improve it in future.

Ynghylch yr economi, mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad a Llywodraeth San Steffan wedi gweithio i greu llwyfan rhyfeddol ar gyfer llwyddiant yng Nghymru. Lleihawyd diweithdra i 3.6 y cant; am y tro cyntaf mewn 30 mlynedd gallwn ddweud bod gennym economi â chyflogaeth lawn. Pan oedd dirwasgiadau lu’r Torïaid ar eu gwaethaf, bu cyfnodau hir pan oedd mwy na 10,000 o bobl ifanc heb waith am fwy na chwe mis. Creodd y Torïaid genhedlaeth o bobl ifanc a gredai nad oedd ganddynt unrhyw obaith nac unrhyw ddyfodol. Mae’r ffigur hwnnw wedi’i ostwng bellach i lai na 1,600; yr ydym bron â dileu diweithdra ymysg pobl ifanc yng Nghymru. Os edrychwch o’ch cwmpas, gwelwch obaith a hyder ymysg ein pobl ifanc, lle y bu unwaith ofn ac anobaith. Ers 1999, bu cynnydd o 37,000 yn nifer y swyddi yng Nghymru. Bu twf rhyfeddol yn nifer y swyddi sydd ar gael mewn busnesau bach a chanolig eu maint. Ni all neb atal colli pob swydd neu atal cau ffatri. Mae colli swyddi mewn llawer rhan o Gymru’n destun gofid i ni i gyd. Fodd bynnag, rhaid i lywodraeth greu amodau lle y mae’r economi’n ffynnu a sicrhau bod nifer y swyddi sydd ar gael yn dal i gynyddu. Ni ellir honni y byddai camau gan y Llywodraeth hon neu unrhyw un arall wedi gallu atal unrhyw golledion swyddi yn y blynyddoedd diwethaf. Mae’r Llywodraeth hon yn creu’r amodau sydd eu hangen i wella economi Cymru ac i bobl gael bod â’r hyder sydd ei angen i barhau i’w gwella yn y dyfodol.

Brian Hancock spoken in English p. 92

Brian Hancock siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 92

I am glad that you mentioned the actions of this or any other Government. Do you agree that a proper economic policy on the part of the UK Government would have safeguarded the strength of the pound, the ratio between employment and unemployment, and our manufacturing industries, which would have meant fewer job losses in south Wales?

Yr wyf yn falch eich bod wedi sôn am gamau gan y Llywodraeth hon neu unrhyw un arall. A ydych yn cytuno y byddai polisi economaidd priodol ar ran Llywodraeth y DU wedi diogelu cryfder y bunt, y gymhareb rhwng cyflogaeth a diweithdra, a’n diwydiannau gweithgynhyrchu, a fyddai wedi golygu colli llai o swyddi yn y De?

Carwyn Jones spoken in English p. 92

Carwyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 92

I am not sure that I understand that point. It does not matter what the jobs are as long as they are well paid and as long as there are jobs available for people with qualifications and for those who are unskilled. I have already mentioned the extra 37,000 jobs that we have made available. Jobs have been lost in Wales, but you should judge us on our capacity to address those job losses and create new ones. We have not been found wanting in that respect.

Nid wyf yn sicr a wyf yn deall y pwynt hwnnw. Nid yw o bwys beth yw’r swyddi cyhyd â bod tâl da am eu gwneud a chyhyd â bod swyddi ar gael i bobl sydd â chymwysterau ac i rai sydd heb sgiliau. Yr wyf eisoes wedi sôn am y 37,000 o swyddi ychwanegol yr ydym wedi peri eu bod ar gael. Collwyd swyddi yng Nghymru, ond dylech ein barnu yn ôl ein gallu i roi sylw i’r colledion swyddi hynny a chreu rhai newydd. Nid ydym wedi ein cael yn brin yn hynny o beth.

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 92

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 92

Are you correcting the claim made by the Minister for Economic Development just before Christmas, when he stated that 30,000 manufacturing jobs had been lost in the previous 12 months, and that only 25,000 had been created?

A ydych yn cywiro’r honiad a wnaed gan y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd ychydig cyn y Nadolig, pan ddywedodd fod 30,000 o swyddi gweithgynhyrchu wedi’u colli yn y 12 mis blaenorol, ac mai dim ond 25,000 a grewyd?

Carwyn Jones spoken in English p. 92

Carwyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 92

Extra jobs have been created in all sectors and across Wales, and there has been an increase of 37,000 in the number of jobs available. That is the important point.

Crewyd swyddi ychwanegol ym mhob sector a hynny ledled Cymru, a bu cynnydd o 37,000 yn nifer y swyddi sydd ar gael. Dyna’r pwynt pwysig.

Cynog Dafis a gododd—

Cynog Dafis rose—

Carwyn Jones spoken in English p. 92

Carwyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 92

Sorry, Cynog, I will not take an intervention at this moment.

Mae’n ddrwg gennyf, Cynog, ni dderbyniaf ymyriad ar hyn o bryd.

Social justice is an alien concept to the opposition parties in this Chamber; it would be a joke to suggest that the Conservative Party subscribes to a social justice agenda. It believes in a free market—except in farming, where it does not count—and that the market should rule everything. The Conservatives talk of cutting waste and reforming public services; yet, when the railways were sold, the Conservative Government of the time kissed goodbye to £1 billion of public money. They use the euphemisms of waste and reform when they mean cutting public spending.

Mae cyfiawnder cymdeithasol yn gysyniad dieithr i’r gwrthbleidiau yn y Siambr hon; chwerthinllyd fyddai awgrymu bod y Blaid Geidwadol yn cefnogi agenda cyfiawnder cymdeithasol. Mae’n credu mewn marchnad rydd—ac eithrio mewn ffermio, lle nad yw’n cyfrif—ac y dylai’r farchnad reoli pob dim. Mae’r Ceidwadwyr yn sôn am gwtogi ar wastraff a diwygio gwasanaethau cyhoeddus; ac eto, pan werthwyd y rheilffyrdd, ffarweliodd y Llywodraeth Geidwadol ar y pryd â £1 biliwn o arian cyhoeddus. Defnyddiant wastraff a diwygio fel geiriau teg am dorri gwario cyhoeddus.

One way of progressing social justice in Wales is to ensure that local government can finance its services. Next year, the average Assembly grant for local authority services per head of population will be £1,056. In Merthyr Tydfil, it will be £1,234. That is £178 for every man, woman and child in Merthyr Tydfil county borough, which is 15 per cent more than the Welsh average. The people of Blaenau Gwent will also receive 12 per cent more than the average. Even in areas that are not under the control of coalition parties, such as Anglesey, Rhondda Cynon Taf and Caerphilly—areas in which Plaid Cymru used to seek votes—the Assembly Government’s funding is at least 6 per cent higher than the average. I believe, as does the Government, that that is right. This is redistribution and social justice on a radical and justified scale. Opposition parties suggest that this increase in funding for our poorest areas must be wrong because this coalition is a disaster.

Un modd i hyrwyddo cyfiawnder cymdeithasol yng Nghymru yw sicrhau bod llywodraeth leol yn gallu cyllido ei gwasanaethau. Y flwyddyn nesaf, y grant cyfartalog y pen gan y Cynulliad ar gyfer gwasanaethau awdurdod lleol fydd £1,056. Ym Merthyr Tudful, bydd yn £1,234. Mae hynny’n £178 ar gyfer pob dyn, menyw a phlentyn ym mwrdeistref sirol Merthyr Tudful, sy’n 15 y cant yn fwy na’r cyfartaledd yng Nghymru. Bydd pobl Blaenau Gwent hwythau’n derbyn 12 y cant yn fwy na’r cyfartaledd. Hyd yn oed mewn ardaloedd nad ydynt o dan reolaeth pleidiau’r glymblaid, fel Ynys Môn, Rhondda Cynon Taf a Chaerffili—ardaloedd lle yr arferai Plaid Cymru chwilio am bleidleisiau—mae’r cyllido gan Lywodraeth y Cynulliad yn 6 y cant yn uwch o leiaf na’r cyfartaledd. Yr wyf fi’n credu, fel y mae’r Llywodraeth, mai hynny sy’n iawn. Dyma ailddosbarthu a chyfiawnder cymdeithasol sylfaenol a theg. Mae’r gwrthbleidiau’n awgrymu bod y cynnydd hwn mewn cyllid ar gyfer ein hardaloedd tlotaf yn anghywir am fod y glymblaid hon yn drychineb.

Geraint Davies spoken in English p. 93

Geraint Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 93

Do you agree that the recent Bevan Foundation report, which was sponsored by your Labour colleagues in Westminster, and which catalogued the series of problems that we face in the Valleys, is an indictment of this Government? It has demonstrated a lack of policies and a lack of the will to improve the situation in the Valleys.

A ydych yn cytuno bod yr adroddiad diweddar gan Sefydliad Bevan, a noddwyd gan eich cyd-aelodau Llafur yn San Steffan, ac a restrodd gyfres o broblemau a wynebwn yn y Cymoedd, yn gondemniad o’r Llywodraeth hon? Mae wedi amlygu diffyg o ran polisïau ac ewyllys i wella’r sefyllfa yn y Cymoedd.

Carwyn Jones spoken in English p. 93

Carwyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 93

I have read the report; it does not say that. I have not noticed a Plaid Cymru policy on the Valleys. Although there is a lot of whingeing, Plaid Cymru does not do much that is constructive.

Yr wyf wedi darllen yr adroddiad; nid yw’n dweud hynny. Nid wyf wedi sylwi ar bolisi gan Blaid Cymru ar gyfer y Cymoedd. Er bod llawer o gwyno, nid yw Plaid Cymru’n gwneud llawer sy’n adeiladol.

Much criticism is made of the coalition Government, but what is Plaid Cymru’s aim? In this Chamber sit 60 Members that were elected to a body for which the people of Wales voted in a referendum. It is the only body of its kind in Wales. Will Plaid Cymru tell the people of Wales what its aim is? If it wants full national status, that means independence; it means having a separate Treasury, embassies, and fiscal independence. It will mean being in the same category as France, Germany or Spain. Stand up now and tell the people of Wales what your policy is.

Mae llawer o feirniadu ar y Llywodraeth glymblaid, ond beth yw nod Plaid Cymru? Yn y Siambr hon mae 60 o Aelodau’n eistedd a etholwyd i gorff y pleidleisiodd pobl Cymru drosto mewn refferendwm. Dyma’r unig gorff o’i fath yng Nghymru. A wnaiff Plaid Cymru ddweud wrth bobl Cymru beth yw ei nod? Os ydyw am gael statws cenedlaethol llawn, mae hynny’n golygu annibyniaeth; mae’n golygu bod â Thrysorlys ar wahân, llysgenadaethau, ac annibyniaeth gyllidol. Bydd yn golygu bod yn yr un categori â Ffrainc, yr Almaen neu Sbaen. Sefwch ar eich traed yn awr a dweud wrth bobl Cymru beth yw eich polisi.

Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 94

Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 94

Byddwn yn cyflwyno ein tystiolaeth i gomisiwn Richard ymhen 10 diwrnod. Pryd y byddwch yn cyflwyno’ch tystiolaeth chi?

We will present our evidence to the Richard commission in 10 days’ time. When will you present your evidence?

Carwyn Jones spoken in English p. 94

Carwyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 94

Am I to assume from that comment that Plaid Cymru’s view is confused? The choice is either national regional status or full national status in Europe. We all know when the Labour Party will give its evidence to the Richard commission. However, according to your party, the Richard commission is a waste of time because you want your own constitutional convention. That is the situation. Where do you stand? Do you stand for independence? Tell the people of Wales because they deserve to know. Be honest with them and stand for what you believe are your principles.

A wyf i gymryd ar sail y sylw hwnnw mai barn ddryslyd sydd gan Blaid Cymru? Y dewis yw un ai statws rhanbarthol cenedlaethol neu statws cenedlaethol llawn yn Ewrop. Yr ydym i gyd yn gwybod pa bryd y bydd y Blaid Lafur yn rhoi ei thystiolaeth i gomisiwn Richard. Fodd bynnag, yn ôl eich plaid chi, gwastraff amser yw comisiwn Richard gan eich bod yn dymuno cael eich cynhadledd gyfansoddiadol eich hun. Dyna’r sefyllfa. Ym mhle’r ydych yn sefyll? A ydych yn sefyll dros annibyniaeth? Dywedwch wrth bobl Cymru gan eu bod yn haeddu cael gwybod. Dywedwch y gwir wrthynt a sefwch dros yr hyn a gredwch yw’ch egwyddorion.

In May, the people of Wales will make a judgment. There has been progress in Wales. Prosperity has been delivered and this Government has worked for the people of Wales. We will face the judgment of those people with confidence and our heads held high.

Ym mis Mai, bydd pobl Cymru’n dyfarnu. Bu cynnydd yng Nghymru. Sicrhawyd ffyniant ac mae’r Llywodraeth hon wedi gweithio dros bobl Cymru. Byddwn yn wynebu barn y bobl hynny’n hyderus gan ddal ein pennau’n uchel.

Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 94

Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh and English p. 94

Yr wyf am ganolbwyntio ar y Blaid Lafur heddiw gan mai side-show yn unig yw’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol. Os cred Kirsty Williams fod polisi’r Llywodraeth ar ysgolion bach gwledig wedi arbed unrhyw ysgolion, gwell fyddai iddi ddweud hynny wrth bobl Trewyddel yn Sir Benfro a phobl Henllan Amgoed, ac eraill fydd yn clywed yr un newyddion â hwythau yn ystod yr wythnosau nesaf.

in Welsh I will focus on the Labour Party today as the Liberal Democrats are only a side-show. If Kirsty Williams believes that the Government’s policy on small rural schools has saved any schools, she should tell that to the residents of Moylgrove in Pembrokeshire and Henllan Amgoed, and to others who will hear the same news as they did during the next few weeks.

Nid y cwestiwn ynglŷn â a yw Llafur wedi methu yn ei dyletswydd i bobl Cymru ai peidio sy’n bwysig ond pam ei bod wedi eu methu. Cynigiaf ddau ateb. Yn gyntaf, pam fod Llafur yn gwrthod cefnogi’r alwad am fargen ariannol deg i Gymru? Pam ei bod yn gwrthod gofyn am adolygiad o fformiwla Barnett a fyddai’n rhoi, yn fwy na thebyg, o gwmpas £800 miliwn y flwyddyn yn ychwanegol i Gymru? Y rheswm yw am y byddai hynny’n achosi embaras i’r Blaid Lafur Brydeinig. Dyna’r realiti sylfaenol. Llafur sy’n dod gyntaf, nid lles Cymru. Dyna’r rheswm cyntaf am fethiant y Blaid Lafur.

in Welsh The important question is not whether Labour has failed the people of Wales but why it has failed them. I offer two answers. First, why does Labour refuse to support the call for a fair financial deal for Wales? Why does it refuse to ask for a review of the Barnett formula, which would probably give an additional £800 million or so a year to Wales? The reason is because that would be an embarrassment to the British Labour Party. That is the fundamental reality. Labour comes before the welfare of Wales. That is the first reason for the Labour Party’s failure.

Yn ail, daeth i rym yn 1999 heb raglen bolisi. Yr oedd gwagle polisi ac y mae wedi ymbalfalu’n ddigyfeiriad ers hynny. Bu Carwyn yn ymffrostio yn rhai o’i pholisïau. I gyfeirio at un ohonynt, polisi Plaid Cymru oedd sefydlu ysgol feddygol yn Abertawe. Cafodd ei fabwysiadu a’i weithredu gan Lafur—chwarae teg iddi—yn Rhagfyr 1999, cyn bod sôn am Lywodraeth glymblaid. Nid yw Llafur wedi arfer â datblygu polisi ar ran Cymru yng Nghymru. Dywedodd un Aelod Llafur o’r Cynulliad wrth Aelod o Blaid Cymru fod yn rhaid inni gofio na fuodd Llafur Cymru erioed yn gorff gwneud polisi. Dim ond trefniadaeth i ennill pleidleisiau ydyw.

in Welsh Secondly, it came to power in 1999 without a policy programme. There was a policy vacuum and it has fumbled without direction since then. Carwyn bragged about some of its policies. To take one of them, establishing a medical school in Swansea was Plaid Cymru’s policy. It was adopted and implemented by Labour—fair play to it—in December 1999, before there was any mention of a coalition Government. Labour is not used to developing policy for Wales in Wales. One Labour Assembly Member told a Plaid Cymru Assembly Member that we must remember that Welsh Labour has never been a policy-making body. It is only a means to obtain votes.

Dyna’r gwir. Ennill pleidleisiau fu pwrpas y Blaid Lafur yng Nghymru erioed. Yr oedd am ennill pleidleisiau er mwyn cael grym, ac am gael grym er mwyn cael grym—yng Nghymru ac, o bryd i’w gilydd, yn San Steffan. Llwyddodd yn dda dros y blynyddoedd yn hynny o beth. Mae wedi tra-arglwyddiaethu ar fywyd gwleidyddol Cymru ers tri chwarter canrif. Mae ei ddylanwad fel tentacl octopws yn ymestyn i bob cwr o’n bywyd cenedlaethol. A yw hynny’n beth iach?

in Welsh That is the truth. The purpose of the Labour Party in Wales has always been to win votes. It wanted to win votes in order to gain power, and it wanted power for the sake of power—in Wales and, from time to time, in Westminster. It has succeeded well in doing so over the years. It has dominated Welsh political life for three-quarters of a century. Its influence is like an octopus’s tentacle extending to every nook and cranny of our national life. Is that healthy?

Delwedd arall a’m tarodd yn ddiweddar yw’r un yng ngherdd enwog Philip Larkin, ‘Toads’. Dyma ddwy linell gyntaf y gerdd:

in Welsh Another image that has struck me recently is that in Philip Larkin’s famous poem, ‘Toads’. The first two lines of the poem are:

‘Why should I let the toad work Squat on my life?’

yn Saesneg Pam y dylwn adael i’r llyffant hwnnw, gwaith, lethu fy mywyd?

Sôn am waith y mae Philip Larkin; sôn am Lafur yr wyf fi. Mae fel llyffant anferth yn cwtsio ar ein bywyd cenedlaethol, yn mogi pob datblygiad ac yn tagu pob hunanhyder ac uchelgais. Mae unrhyw uchelgais i weld Cymru fel gwlad yn ei hawl ei hunan yn Ewrop yn uffern i Lafur. Nid oes ganddi uchelgais nac awydd am uchel amcanion.

in Welsh Philip Larkin is talking about work; I am talking about Labour. It is like a giant toad squatting on our national life, stifling all developments and choking all self-confidence and ambition. Any ambition to see Wales as a nation in its own right in Europe is Labour’s vision of hell. It has no ambition and no grand aspirations.

Yn yr hen chwedlau mae’r llyffant yn cael metamorffosis ac yn troi’n dywysog hardd. A allai hynny ddigwydd i’r Blaid Lafur? A allai droi’n dywysog hardd?

in Welsh In fairy tales the toad undergoes a metamorphosis and changes into a handsome prince. Could that happen to the Labour Party? Could it turn into a handsome prince?

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 96

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 96

Order. You must now wind up. You cannot ask any more questions.

Trefn. Rhaid ichi derfynu’n awr. Ni chewch ofyn rhagor o gwestiynau.

Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 96

Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 96

A allai droi’n fab darogan? Yn yr hen chwedl mae rhywun yn rhoi cusan i’r llyffant. Mae’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol wedi ceisio gwneud hynny eisoes ac ni weithiodd.

Could it turn into the son of prophecy? In the old fable someone kisses the toad. The Liberal Democrats have already tried that and it did not work.

Yr unig beth a wna wahaniaeth yw ergyd farwol neu eu clwyfo hyd at angau ym mis Mai eleni. Gobeithiaf mai dyna a fydd yn digwydd.

The only thing that will make a difference is a mortal blow or the infliction of a deadly wound in May of this year. I hope that that is what will happen.

Gareth Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 96

Gareth Jones spoken in Welsh p. 96

Pwynt o drefn. Codaf hwn o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 7.8, sy’n ymwneud â’r defnydd o iaith yn y Siambr. Sgoriodd arweinydd Ceidwadwyr Cymru bwynt gwleidyddol yn gynharach drwy gyfeirio at Blaid Cymru fel plaid na all resymu. Rhaid inni dderbyn ei fod yn rhydd i’w farn o ran hynny. Fodd bynnag, er mwyn sgorio’r pwynt, gwnaeth gyffelybiaeth â phlant adferol, a chredaf ei bod yn gyffelybiaeth annheg. Hyd a ddeallais, cyfeiriodd at blant adfer mewn dosbarth yn un o’n hysgolion yng Nghymru, gan iddo gyfeirio at un o ddosbarthiadau Jane Davidson.

Point of order. I raise this under Standing Order No. 7.8, which relates to the language used in the Chamber. The leader of the Welsh Conservatives scored a political point earlier by referring to Plaid Cymru as a party that cannot reason. We must accept that he is entitled to his own opinion in that regard. However, in order to score the point, he drew a comparison with remedial children, which I believe was unfair. As I understood it, he referred to remedial children in a class in one of our schools in Wales, as he referred to one of Jane Davidson’s classes.

Atgoffaf arweinydd Ceidwadwyr Cymru na chaiff y term ‘adferol’ ei ddefnyddio yn ein hysgolion bellach oherwydd y stigma sy’n perthyn iddo. Defnyddir term arall, mwy addas. Wrth gyfeirio at y math hwnnw o blentyn fel un sy’n methu â rhesymu, gwnaeth gam â phlant ag anghenion arbennig—medrant resymu gystal ag unrhyw wleidydd. Teimlaf, felly, iddi fod yn gymhariaeth annheg a gobeithiaf y bydd yn fodlon ei hailystyried.

I remind the leader of the Welsh Conservatives that the term ‘remedial’ is no longer used in our schools because of the stigma attached to it. Another, more appropriate term is used. In referring to that kind of child as not being able to reason, he has wronged children with special needs—they can reason as well as any politician. I therefore feel that it was an unfair comparison, and I hope that he is willing to reconsider it.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 96

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 96

I did not stop the debate at the time; it was a lively debate and feelings were running high. However, words and phrases were used which, on reflection, I hope Members will feel they ought not to have used. I do not think that there was anything that I should have insisted upon any Member withdrawing but, when Members examine the Record of Proceedings, they will see certain words that ought not to have been used. I ask Members to bear that in mind for the future. We are in the run-up to an election, but I would be grateful for Members’ co-operation on these matters.

Nid ateliais y ddadl ar y pryd; yr oedd yn ddadl fywiog ac yr oedd teimladau cryf i’w mynegi. Fodd bynnag, defnyddiwyd geiriau ac ymadroddion yr wyf yn gobeithio, ar ôl ystyried, y bydd Aelodau’n teimlo na ddylent fod wedi’u defnyddio. Ni chredaf fod dim y dylwn fod wedi mynnu i unrhyw Aelod ei dynnu’n ôl ond, pan fydd Aelodau’n archwilio Cofnod y Trafodion, gwelant rai geiriau na ddylesid eu defnyddio. Gofynnaf i Aelodau gofio hynny at y dyfodol. Yr ydym yn dynesu at etholiad, ond byddwn yn ddiolchgar am gydweithrediad yr Aelodau ar y materion hyn.

Gwelliant 1 Nick Bourne t. 97

Amendment 1 Nick Bourne p. 97

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 9 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 44

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment rejected.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (9)
  • Nick Bourne
  • Alun Cairns
  • David Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • William Graham
  • David Ian Jones
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Peter Rogers
Yn erbynAgainst (44)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Jane Davidson
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams

Cynnig NDM1285 Ieuan Wyn Jones t. 98

Motion NDM1285 Ieuan Wyn Jones p. 98

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 24 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 30

Gwrthodwyd y cynnig.

Motion rejected.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (24)
  • Nick Bourne
  • Alun Cairns
  • Cynog Dafis
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • William Graham
  • Brian Hancock
  • David Ian Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (30)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Alison Halford
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 98

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 98

That brings today’s proceedings to a close.

Daw hynny â chyfarfod heddiw i ben.

Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 5.23 p.m.

The session ended at 5.23 p.m.