Cymraeg

Cynulliad Cenedlaethol CymruNational Assembly for Wales · Cyfarfod llawnPlenary sitting

Dydd Mercher 12 Chwefror 2003

Wednesday 12 February 2003

DechreuoddMet 14:00 · Daeth i benRose 17:27

Gweld y Cofnod (PDF)View the Record (PDF)

Heb ei wirio â llaw etoNot yet checked by hand

CynnwysContents

  1. 3Cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau CymdeithasolQuestions to the Minister for Health and Social Services
    1. 3Adolygiad Edwards o Wasanaethau OrthopedigThe Edwards Review of Orthopaedic Services
    2. 5Contract i Feddygon TeuluContract for General Practitioners
    3. 6Cynllunio Gofal IechydPlanning for Healthcare
    4. 8Llawdriniaethau i Dynnu Tonsils ac Adenoids (Amseroedd Aros)Tonsillectomies and Adenoidectomies (Waiting Times)
    5. 9Cyrsiau Hyfforddi NyrsysNursing Training Courses
    6. 11Achosion Llys yn Erbyn y GIGLitigation against the NHS
    7. 12Cymdeithas Cartrefi Nyrsio a Phreswyl Gogledd CymruThe North Wales Nursing and Residential Homes Association
  2. 14Cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol OesQuestions to the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning
    1. 14Amddifadedd CymdeithasolSocial Deprivation
    2. 17Peilot o’r Fagloriaeth GymreigPiloting the Welsh Baccalaureate
    3. 19Gwella Sgiliau SylfaenolImproving Basic Skills
    4. 23Talu Ffioedd Dysgu Ymlaen LlawUp-front Tuition Fees
  3. 27Cwestiwn BrysUrgent Question
    1. 27Colli Swyddi yn KTH, LlanidloesJob Losses at KTH, Llanidloes
  4. 34Datganiad ar yr Ymgynghoriad ar ‘Y Wlad sy’n Dysgu: Llwybrau Dysgu 14-19’Statement on the Consultation on ‘The Learning Country: Learning Pathways 14-19’
  5. 48Pwyntiau o DrefnPoints of Order
  6. 50Cymeradwyo Cyllid Llywodraeth Leol (Cymru) Adroddiad Grant Arbennig (Rhif 13) (Cymru) 2002Approval of the Local Government Finance (Wales) Special Grant Report (No. 13) (Wales) 2002 1 bleidlais1 vote
  7. 58Cymeradwyo Rheoliadau Traffig Ffyrdd (Allyriadau Cerbydau) (Cosbau Penodedig) (Cymru) 2003Approval of the Road Traffic (Vehicle Emissions) (Fixed Penalty) (Wales) Regulations 2003 2 o bleidleisiau2 votes
  8. 66Cymeradwyo Newidiadau i Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.9Approval of Changes to Standing Order No. 6.9 1 bleidlais1 vote
  9. 68Darpariaeth y Blynyddoedd Cynnar a Chynigion ar gyfer Cyfnod SylfaenEarly Years Provision and Proposals for a Foundation Phase 2 o bleidleisiau2 votes
  10. 88Dadl FerShort Debate
    1. 88Yr Argyfwng Tai TrefolThe Urban Housing Crisis

PleidleisiauVotes

PleidlaisVoteO blaidForYmatalAbstainYn erbynAgainstCanlyniadResult
Cymeradwyo Cyllid Llywodraeth Leol (Cymru) Adroddiad Grant Arbennig (Rhif 13) (Cymru) 2002Approval of the Local Government Finance (Wales) Special Grant Report (No. 13) (Wales) 2002
Cynnig NDM1345Motion NDM13453700DerbyniwydAdopted
Cymeradwyo Rheoliadau Traffig Ffyrdd (Allyriadau Cerbydau) (Cosbau Penodedig) (Cymru) 2003Approval of the Road Traffic (Vehicle Emissions) (Fixed Penalty) (Wales) Regulations 2003
Cynnig NDM1346Motion NDM13463700DerbyniwydAdopted
Cynnig NDM1347Motion NDM13473600DerbyniwydAdopted
Cymeradwyo Newidiadau i Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.9Approval of Changes to Standing Order No. 6.9
CynnigMotion3500DerbyniwydAdopted
Darpariaeth y Blynyddoedd Cynnar a Chynigion ar gyfer Cyfnod SylfaenEarly Years Provision and Proposals for a Foundation Phase
Gwelliant 1Amendment 114023GwrthodwydRejected
Cynnig NDM1348Motion NDM13483800DerbyniwydAdopted

TrafodionProceedings

Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 2 p.m. gyda’r Llywydd yn y Gadair.

The Assembly met at 2 p.m. with the Presiding Officer in the Chair.

Cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol

Questions to the Minister for Health and Social Services

Adolygiad Edwards o Wasanaethau Orthopedig

The Edwards Review of Orthopaedic Services

Q1 Kirsty Williams spoken in English p. 3

C1 Kirsty Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3

Will the Minister make a statement on any lessons learned from the Edwards review of orthopaedic services? (OAQ22461)

A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad ar unrhyw wersi y mae adolygiad Edwards o wasanaethau orthopedig wedi’u dysgu iddi? (OAQ22461)

Jane Hutt The Minister for Health and Social Services spoken in English p. 3

Jane Hutt Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3

The review identified some important themes that apply across Wales. The report’s recommendations are being discussed by my officials and the Gwent health community. I will announce the way forward on 26 February at the Health and Social Services Committee meeting.

Nododd yr adolygiad rai themâu pwysig sy’n berthnasol i Gymru gyfan. Trafodir argymhellion yr adroddiad gan fy swyddogion a chymuned iechyd Gwent. Byddaf yn cyhoeddi’r ffordd ymlaen ar 26 Chwefror yng nghyfarfod y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol.

Kirsty Williams spoken in English p. 3

Kirsty Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3

The Edwards review pointed to the need to protect elective capacity in district general hospitals. Do you agree that we need to consider this principle carefully? We should protect elective capacity throughout Wales to ensure that people needing non-urgent and emergency treatment do not have to wait so long for surgery.

Cyfeiriodd adolygiad Edwards at yr angen i ddiogelu’r capasiti ar gyfer llawdriniaethau dewisol mewn ysbytai cyffredinol dosbarth. A gytunwch fod angen inni ystyried yr egwyddor hon yn ofalus? Dylem ddiogelu’r capasiti ar gyfer llawdriniaethau dewisol ledled Cymru i sicrhau nad yw pobl sydd angen triniaeth nad yw’n driniaeth frys neu driniaeth frys yn gorfod aros mor hir am lawdriniaeth.

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 3

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3

That need was reflected by the Assembly’s orthopaedic working group, which recognised that it is a key factor in improving our orthopaedic services. Llandough Hospital has succeeded in ring-fencing two wards. The Brian Edwards review recommended that Nevill Hall Hospital do the same.

Adlewyrchwyd yr angen hwnnw gan weithgor orthopedig y Cynulliad, a wnaeth gydnabod ei fod yn ffactor allweddol os ydym am wella ein gwasanaethau orthopedig. Llwyddodd Ysbyty Llandochau i glustnodi dwy ward ar gyfer hyn. Argymhellodd adolygiad Brian Edwards y dylai Ysbyty Nevill Hall wneud yr un peth.

Brian Hancock spoken in English p. 3

Brian Hancock siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3

You said that you would report your findings on the way forward to the Health and Social Services Committee. However, I am concerned about the recommendations being proposed and the financial problems identified in Gwent, particularly given the pressure on capacity. The author reported an increase in emergency demands from 180 to 260 in the year ending November 2002. What recommendations and financial support will you provide?

Dywedasoch y byddech yn adrodd ar eich canfyddiadau ar y ffordd ymlaen i’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn pryderu am yr argymhellion a wnaethpwyd a’r problemau ariannol a nodwyd yng Ngwent, yn arbennig o ystyried y pwysau sydd ar gapasiti. Nododd yr awdur i ofynion brys gynyddu o 180 i 260 yn y flwyddyn a ddaeth i ben yn Nhachwedd 2002. Pa argymhellion a chymorth ariannol y byddwch yn eu darparu?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 4

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

That is for the Committee to decide on 26 February. However, the Gwent health community has already received an investment of over £4 million to help it reduce orthopaedic waiting times. It also received an extra £1 million in 2002-03 and £1.5 million this year to cope with winter pressures. We will address improved management capacity and primary care across the board.

Y Pwyllgor fydd yn penderfynu ar hynny ar 26 Chwefror. Fodd bynnag, mae cymuned iechyd Gwent eisoes wedi derbyn buddsoddiad o dros £4 miliwn i’w helpu i leihau amseroedd aros orthopedig. Cafodd hefyd £1 filiwn ychwanegol yn 2002-03 a £1.5 eleni i ymdopi â phwysau’r gaeaf. Byddwn yn ymdrin â chapasiti rheoli a gofal sylfaenol gwell yn gyffredinol.

Lynne Neagle spoken in English p. 4

Lynne Neagle siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

It is important that the report’s recommendations are implemented in full and, in particular, that the investment is made to develop the extra capacity needed at Nevill Hall and St Woolos. Do you agree that it is an urgent responsibility of the Assembly Government to ensure that the extra funding to the service in Gwent is delivered quickly and is tied to the implementation of the report? Do you further agree that this gives greater impetus to the need to implement swiftly the Townsend reforms that have previously highlighted a serious funding shortfall for my consitituency, Torfaen? Will you further ensure that the essential changes in management recommended by the Edwards report are made as promptly as possible?

Mae’n bwysig bod argymhellion yr adroddiad yn cael eu gweithredu’n llawn ac, yn arbennig, y buddsoddir i ddatblygu’r capasiti ychwanegol sydd ei angen yn Nevill Hall a St Woolos. A gytunwch fod sicrhau y caiff yr arian ychwanegol i’r gwasanaeth yng Ngwent ei ryddhau’n gyflym a’i fod ynghlwm wrth weithredu’r adroddiad hwn yn gyfrifoldeb brys ar Lywodraeth y Cynulliad? A gytunwch hefyd fod hyn yn rhoi mwy o ysgogiad i’r angen am weithredu yn ddi-oed ddiwygiadau Townsend sydd eisoes wedi amlygu diffyg arian difrifol i’m hetholaeth, Torfaen? A wnewch chi hefyd sicrhau y caiff y newidiadau hanfodol mewn rheoli a argymhellwyd gan adroddiad Edwards eu gwneud cyn gynted â phosibl?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 4

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

The recommendations of the Townsend review will benefit the Gwent health community in particular. We have been adjusting the formula over the past two years in order to reflect the needs of that area. I have mentioned the £4 million that we have invested in Gwent, but the investment recommendations and the management changes that must come forward as a result of the Edwards review will be discussed on Wednesday and I take them seriously.

Bydd cymuned iechyd Gwent yn arbennig yn elwa ar argymhellion adolygiad Townsend. Buom yn addasu’r fformiwla dros y ddwy flynedd diwethaf er mwyn ystyried anghenion yr ardal honno. Crybwyllais y £4 miliwn a fuddsoddwyd gennym yng Ngwent, ond caiff yr argymhellion buddsoddi a’r newidiadau rheoli y mae’n rhaid eu cyflwyno o ganlyniad i adolygiad Edwards eu trafod ddydd Mercher ac yr wyf yn eu cymryd o ddifrif.

William Graham spoken in English p. 4

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

We are all sadly aware of the crisis in orthopaedic services in south-east Wales. Even if, as the Edwards report specifies, 25 beds are retained for orthopaedic elective treatment, what will happen if emergency admissions exceed the remaining bed capacity? You may resolve one crisis only to create another.

Yr ydym oll yn ymwybodol, yn anffodus, o’r argyfwng mewn gwasanaethau orthopedig yn y De-ddwyrain. Hyd yn oed, fel y nodir yn adroddiad Edwards, os cedwir 25 o welyau ar gyfer triniaeth ddewisol orthopedig, beth fyddai’n digwydd pe bai derbyniadau brys yn fwy na nifer y gwelyau sy’n weddill? Gallech ddatrys un argyfwng a chreu un arall.

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 4

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

Emergency admissions and the resulting pressure on the Gwent health community have been a factor. The Gwent Healthcare NHS Trust, as you know, will open a new emergency assessment unit in September, and has appointed two emergency physicians to work there. One of those physicians has been in post since January. The protection and the reform of the management of emergency pressures in that hospital is as important as the issues of capacity, ring-fencing beds, and investment in surgery and operating theatres.

Bu derbyniadau brys a’r pwysau o ganlyniad i hyn ar gymuned iechyd Gwent yn ffactor. Bydd Ymddiriedolaeth GIG Gofal Iechyd Gwent, fel y gwyddoch, yn agor uned asesu achosion brys newydd ym mis Medi, a phenodwyd dau feddyg brys i weithio yno. Bu un o’r meddygon hyn yn ei swydd ers Ionawr. Mae’r gwaith o ddiogelu a diwygio’r ffordd y caiff y pwysau brys ei reoli yn yr ysbyty hwnnw cyn bwysiced â materion capasiti, clustnodi gwelyau, a buddsoddi mewn llawfeddygaeth ac mewn theatrau llawdriniaeth.

John Griffiths spoken in English p. 5

John Griffiths siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

How will the extra investment that has been provided in Gwent through the innovations in care programme contribute to the work identified by Professor Brian Edwards as needing to be taken forward in Gwent?

Sut y bydd y buddsoddiad ychwanegol a ddarparwyd yng Ngwent drwy’r rhaglen arloesi mewn gofal yn cyfrannu tuag at y gwaith y mae angen ei ddatblygu yng Ngwent yn ôl yr Athro Brian Edwards?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 5

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

I was pleased to allocate £575,000 to the Gwent health community through our innovations in care programme in 2000-01. That recognised that new practices were needed in relation to physiotherapists, nurses, and extending the operating capacity at Caerphilly Miners’ Hospital. It was important that innovations in care were taken forward alongside the investments that we put into the service. That is reflected in taking forward the Edwards report’s recommendations.

Yr oedd yn bleser gennyf ddyrannu £575,000 i gymuned iechyd Gwent drwy ein rhaglen arloesi mewn gofal yn 2000-01. Cydnabu hynny yr angen am arferion newydd mewn perthynas â ffisiotherapyddion, nyrsys, ac ymestyn y capasiti llawdriniaeth yn Ysbyty’r Glowyr Caerffili. Yr oedd yn bwysig bod arloesi mewn gofal yn cael ei ddatblygu ochr yn ochr â’r buddsoddiadau yr ydym wedi’u rhoi yn y gwasanaeth. Caiff hynny ei adlewyrchu wrth i argymhellion adroddiad Edwards gael eu datblygu.

Contract i Feddygon Teulu

Contract for General Practitioners

Q2 Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 5

C2 Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

Will the Minister provide a progress report on the implementation of the proposed new general practitioner contract in Wales? (OAQ22433)

A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi adroddiad ar hynt y contract newydd arfaethedig i feddygon teulu yng Nghymru? (OAQ22433)

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 5

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

The new contract still has to be finalised and voted on by GPs. To ensure that we are able to move quickly once agreement is reached, I have set up an implementation group, which will plan for the systematic introduction of the new contract across Wales.

Rhaid rhoi’r contract newydd ar ei wedd derfynol i feddygon teulu bleidleisio arno. I sicrhau ein bod yn gallu symud yn gyflym unwaith y byddwn wedi cyrraedd cytundeb, sefydlais grŵp gweithredu, a fydd yn cynllunio ar gyfer cyflwyno’r contract newydd yn systematig dros Gymru.

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 5

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

I understand that GPs can choose to opt out of providing out-of-hours cover under that new contract. Residents in my consistuency, in Cerrigydrudion, Llangwm, and Pentrefoelas, are concerned that out-of-hours cover will not be provided there, especially as I understand that that cover will have to be arranged by the new local health boards. How are the new local health boards progressing and developing out-of-hours cover where GPs opt out of providing that coverage?

Deallaf y gall meddygon teulu ddewis peidio â darparu gwasanaeth y tu allan i oriau swyddfa o dan y contract newydd hwnnw. Mae trigolion yn fy etholaeth i, yng Ngherrigydrudion, Llangwm, a Phentrefoelas, yn pryderu na chaiff gwasanaeth y tu allan i oriau swyddfa ei ddarparu yno, yn arbennig gan fy mod ar ddeall y bydd yn rhaid i’r byrddau iechyd lleol newydd drefnu’r ddarpariaeth honno. Sut y mae’r byrddau lleol newydd yn datblygu gwasanaethau y tu allan i oriau swyddfa ac yn symud ymlaen ar hynny lle y bo meddygon teulu yn dewis peidio â darparu’r gwasanaeth hwnnw?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 6

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

An important part, and one of the key negotiating points, of the contract is that the responsibility for out-of-hours provision will revert to the new local health boards. Over the past three years, we have reviewed and invested £1 million each year in the out-of-hours services. That will continue next year. We have also seconded a project manager, who will work with local health boards on the out-of-hours services, and the interface with social services. I am confident that that will be taken forward.

Rhan bwysig o’r contract, ac un o’r pwyntiau negodi allweddol yn ei gylch, yw bod y cyfrifoldeb dros ddarpariaeth y tu allan i oriau swyddfa yn trosglwyddo i’r byrddau iechyd lleol newydd. Dros y tair blynedd diwethaf, yr ydym wedi adolygu hyn ac wedi buddsoddi £1 filiwn y flwyddyn mewn gwasanaethau y tu allan i oriau swyddfa. Bydd hynny yn parhau y flwyddyn nesaf. Yr ydym hefyd wedi secondio rheolwr prosiect, a fydd yn gweithio â byrddau iechyd lleol ar y gwasanaethau y tu allan i oriau swyddfa, a’r rhyngwyneb gyda gwasanaethau cymdeithasol. Yr wyf yn hyderus y caiff hynny ei ddatblygu.

David Davies spoken in English p. 6

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

Is it the case, as has been suggested, that there are delays in implementing these new contracts in Wales? Is it taking longer to sort this out in Wales than in England? Will these delays have an impact on the recruitment of primary health care providers in Wales?

A yw’n wir, fel yr awgrymwyd, bod oedi cyn gweithredu’r contractau newydd hyn yng Nghymru? A yw datrys hyn yn cymryd mwy o amser yng Nghymru nag yn Lloegr? A gaiff yr oedi hwn effaith ar recriwtio darparwyr gofal iechyd sylfaenol yng Nghymru?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 6

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

This is a UK-wide contract, and we are involved at ministerial and official level in preparing it. A draft contract will be presented to professions and NHS management across the UK on 21 February. The decision will be made on a UK-wide basis, and we will take it forward in Wales at the same time as the rest of the UK.

Mae hwn yn gontract i’r DU gyfan, ac yr ydym yn gysylltiedig â’i baratoi ar lefel weinidogol ac ar lefel swyddogion. Caiff contract drafft ei gyflwyno i’r proffesiynau a rheolwyr GIG dros y DU ar 21 Chwefror. Gwneir y penderfyniad ar sail y DU gyfan, a byddwn yn ei ddatblygu yng Nghymru ar yr un pryd â gweddill y DU.

Cynllunio Gofal Iechyd

Planning for Healthcare

Q3 Richard Edwards spoken in English p. 6

C3 Richard Edwards siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

What co-ordination is there between local authorities, local health groups and the National Assembly when planning for healthcare in Wales? (OAQ22341)

Pa gydlynu sy’n digwydd rhwng awdurdodau lleol, grwpiau iechyd lleol a’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol wrth gynllunio gofal iechyd yng Nghymru? (OAQ22341)

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 6

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

The current health improvement programmes will be integrated and succeeded by health, social care and wellbeing strategies from 1 April 2003, formulated by the new local health boards and local authorities, in line with the Assembly Government’s 10-year plan, ‘Improving Health in Wales’.

Caiff y rhaglenni gwella iechyd cyfredol eu hintegreiddio a’u disodli gan y strategaethau iechyd, gofal cymdeithasol a lles o 1 Ebrill 2003, wedi’u llunio gan y byrddau iechyd lleol newydd a’r awdurdodau lleol, yn unol â chynllun 10-mlynedd Llywodraeth y Cynulliad, ‘Gwella Iechyd yng Nghymru’.

Richard Edwards spoken in English p. 7

Richard Edwards siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

Some GPs in my constituency have expressed concern that the local authority makes plans for extra housing provision without consulting healthcare bodies and providers about the implications for healthcare facilities. I welcome your commitment to parternship working and a more holistic approach in ‘Improving Health in Wales’. However, are you satisfied that representation from local authorities on the new local health boards will provide the necessary liaison between all the relevant bodies in planning properly developed and implemented local strategies?

Mae rhai meddygon teulu yn fy etholaeth wedi mynegi pryderon fod yr awdurdod lleol yn gwneud cynlluniau am ddarpariaeth dai ychwanegol heb ymgynghori â chyrff a darparwyr gofal iechyd ynglŷn â’r goblygiadau i gyfleusterau gofal iechyd. Croesawaf eich ymrwymiad i weithio mewn partneriaeth ac i ymagwedd fwy cyfannol yn ‘Gwella Iechyd yng Nghymru’. Fodd bynnag, a ydych wedi’ch bodloni y bydd cynrychiolaeth o awdurdodau lleol ar y byrddau iechyd lleol newydd yn rhoi’r ddolen gyswllt sydd ei hangen rhwng yr holl gyrff perthnasol wrth gynllunio strategaethau lleol sydd wedi eu datblygu’n llawn a’u gweithredu’n gywir?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 7

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

It is vital that elected members and officer representatives on the new local health boards, which are coterminous with local authorities, take on board not only the housing strategy, which is key to health, social care and wellbeing, but also the wider community strategy. The Assembly adopted regulations in January to ensure a strategic approach at a local level. We will then be able to monitor and ensure that such strategies, along with health planning, are fully taken into account locally.

Mae’n hollbwysig bod aelodau etholedig a chynrychiolwyr sy’n swyddogion ar y byrddau iechyd lleol newydd, sy’n cydffinio â’r awdurdodau lleol, yn ystyried nid yn unig y strategaeth dai, sy’n allweddol i iechyd, gofal cymdeithasol a lles, ond hefyd y strategaeth gymunedol ehangach. Mabwysiadodd y Cynulliad reoliadau yn Ionawr i sicrhau ymagwedd strategol ar lefel leol. Yna gallwn fonitro a sicrhau bod strategaethau o’r fath, ynghyd â chynllunio iechyd, yn cael eu hystyried yn llawn yn lleol.

David Lloyd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 7

David Lloyd spoken in Welsh p. 7

Beth yw’r datblygiadau diweddaraf ynghylch byrddau iechyd lleol yn rhedeg ar ffurf gysgodol?

What are the latest developments regarding local health boards running in shadow form?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 7

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

As you know, all the chief executives are in post and the rest of the executive teams and the non-officers are now being appointed. We have carer and voluntary sector appointments and primary care professionals. They are working together, supported by the Assembly’s NHS directorate, and are planning to take up their powers on 1 April.

Fel y gwyddoch, mae’r holl brif weithredwyr yn eu swyddi eisoes ac mae gweddill y timau gweithredol a’r rhai nad ydynt yn swyddogion yn cael eu penodi ar hyn o bryd. Mae gennym benodiadau gofalwyr a rhai o’r sector gwirfoddol a gweithwyr proffesiynol ym maes iechyd sylfaenol. Maent yn cydweithio, gyda chymorth cyfarwyddiaeth GIG y Cynulliad, ac yn bwriadu ymgymryd â’u pwerau ar 1 Ebrill.

David Melding spoken in English p. 8

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

A Welsh Labour MP stated that your health reforms would create the most bureaucratic health service in Europe. How will that help the co-ordination of healthcare in Wales?

Nododd AS Llafur o Gymru y byddai eich diwygiadau iechyd yn creu’r gwasanaeth iechyd mwyaf biwrocrataidd yn Ewrop. Sut y bydd hynny yn helpu’r broses o gydlynu gofal iechyd yng Nghymru?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 8

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

Following on from my answer to Richard Edwards’s question, I am concerned that we deliver local services based on local needs and local planning. We signed up to that when we backed ‘Improving Health in Wales’. I am confident that that will be taken forward from 1 April.

Yn dilyn fy ateb i gwestiwn Richard Edwards, yr wyf am sicrhau ein bod yn cyflenwi gwasanaethau lleol yn seiliedig ar anghenion lleol a chynllunio lleol. Bu inni ymrwymo i hynny pan gefnogwyd ‘Gwella Iechyd yng Nghymru’ gennym. Yr wyf yn hyderus y caiff hynny ei ddatblygu o 1 Ebrill.

Llawdriniaethau i Dynnu Tonsils ac Adenoids (Amseroedd Aros)

Tonsillectomies and Adenoidectomies (Waiting Times)

Q4 Geraint Davies spoken in English p. 8

C4 Geraint Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

Will the Minister make a statement regarding waiting times for tonsillectomies and adenoidectomies? (OAQ22443)

A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad ar yr amserau aros am lawdriniaethau i dynnu tonsils ac adenoids? (OAQ22443)

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 8

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

In April 2001, the use of reusable instruments in tonsillectomies was discontinued in response to the theoretical risk of transfer of the infected agent responsible for Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease via surgical instruments. In September 2002, the Chief Medical Officer for Wales advised the chief executives of all NHS trusts in Wales that surgeons should cease to operate with the existing batch of single-use tonsillectomy instruments after it was demonstrated that there were serious concerns about the quality of some of the instruments. Ear, nose and throat surgeons, working with the Assembly, have now identified a set of disposable instruments of the right quality to allow them to recommence the operations over the next few weeks.

Ym mis Ebrill 2001, rhoddwyd y gorau i ddefnyddio offer ailddefnyddiadwy mewn llawdriniaethau i dynnu tonsils mewn ymateb i’r risg ddamcaniaethol y gallai’r cyfrwng heintiedig sy’n gyfrifol am glefyd Creutzfeldt-Jakob gael ei drosglwyddo drwy offer llawfeddygol. Ym mis Medi 2002, cynghorodd Prif Swyddog Meddygol Cymru brif weithredwyr yr holl ymddiriedolaethau GIG yng Nghymru y dylai llawfeddygon roi’r gorau i roi llawdriniaethau gyda’r set o offer tonsilectomi untro sydd ganddynt ar hyn o bryd yn sgîl pryderon difrifol ynglŷn ag ansawdd peth o’r offer. Mae llawfeddygon clust, trwyn a gwddf, gan weithio gyda’r Cynulliad, bellach wedi nodi set o offer untro o’r ansawdd cywir i’w galluogi i ailddechrau’r llawdriniaethau dros yr ychydig wythnosau nesaf.

Geraint Davies spoken in English p. 8

Geraint Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

I have been approached by several constituents with children who have been concerned about the inordinate delay in receiving treatment. You said that you would deal with the backlog as soon as possible, but exactly when do you expect to deal with it? Will you give the trusts increased resources to enable them to do so?

Mae sawl etholwr gyda phlant wedi cysylltu â mi i fynegi eu pryderon ynglŷn â’r oedi mawr cyn cael triniaeth. Dywedasoch y byddech yn delio â’r ôl-groniad cyn gynted â phosibl, ond pryd yn union yr ydych yn bwriadu delio ag ef? A fyddwch yn rhoi rhagor o adnoddau i’r ymddiriedolaethau er mwyn eu galluogi i wneud hynny?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 8

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

Patient safety has been paramount in dealing with this complex issue. Last year, we provided £1.7 million, and a further £1.15 million has been earmarked for 2004, to enable trusts to purchase these single-use disposable instruments.

Mae diogelwch cleifion wedi bod o’r pwys mwyaf wrth ddelio â’r mater cymhleth hwn. Y llynedd, bu inni ddarparu £1.7 miliwn, a chlustnodwyd £1.15 miliwn arall ar gyfer 2004, er mwyn galluogi ymddiriedolaethau i brynu’r offer untro hyn.

We are now phasing in the operations. Where there have been clinical emergencies, we have stated that reusable instruments could be used and quarantined, pending further investigations on the efficacy of sterilisation techniques. Therefore, clinical emergency cases have been undertaken and we are confident that we will be able to restore activity fully over the next few months.

Yr ydym bellach yn cyflwyno’r llawdriniaethau yn raddol. Lle y bu achosion brys clinigol, yr ydym wedi dweud y gellid defnyddio offer ailddefnyddiadwy ac yna’u rhoi mewn cwarantin, hyd y gwneir ymchwil pellach i effeithlonrwydd technegau sterileiddio. Felly, ymgymerwyd ag achosion brys clinigol ac yr ydym yn hyderus y byddwn yn gallu adfer gweithgarwch yn llawn dros yr ychydig fisoedd nesaf.

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 9

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

What mechanisms for learning lessons from this unfortunate incident does the Minister intend to introduce?

Pa ddulliau o ddysgu gwersi o’r digwyddiad anffodus hwn y bwriada’r Gweinidog eu cyflwyno?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 9

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

One cannot always anticipate these matters. Clearly, ensuring that we responded to the Chief Medical Officer for Wales’s advice was of paramount importance in terms of patient safety. Furthermore, in response to Geraint’s question, we ensured that funding was in place and that we worked with colleagues in Scotland, in particular, to identify the safest use of instruments. We also listened to our ear, nose and throat surgeons who advised us on this difficult situation. I am confident that we have handled this correctly, putting patients’ safety first, and that we will now redress the backlog in terms of tonsillectomy and other surgical treatments.

Ni ellir rhagweld y materion hyn bob tro. Yr oedd sicrhau ein bod yn ymateb i gyngor Prif Swyddog Meddygol Cymru yn amlwg o’r pwys mwyaf o ran diogelwch cleifion. At hynny, mewn ymateb i gwestiwn Geraint, sicrhawyd bod arian ar gael a’n bod yn gweithio gyda’n cydweithwyr yn yr Alban, yn enwedig, er mwyn darganfod sut i wneud y defnydd mwyaf diogel o’r offer. Bu inni wrando hefyd ar ein llawfeddygon clust, trwyn a gwddf sydd wedi ein cynghori ar y sefyllfa anodd hon. Yr wyf yn hyderus ein bod wedi mynd i’r afael â’r mater hwn yn gywir, gan roi diogelwch cleifion yn gyntaf, ac y byddwn bellach yn ymdrin â’r ôl-groniad o ran triniaethau i dynnu tonsils a llawdriniaethau eraill.

Cyrsiau Hyfforddi Nyrsys

Nursing Training Courses

Q5 Janice Gregory spoken in English p. 9

C5 Janice Gregory siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

Will the Minister make a statement on the provision of nursing training courses in Wales? (OAQ22459)

A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad ar y cyrsiau hyfforddi nyrsys a ddarperir yng Nghymru? (OAQ22459)

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 9

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

The Welsh Assembly Government has contracts with five higher education institutions across Wales to deliver pre-registration nurse training. During the past three years, there has been a 25 per cent increase in the number of nurses in training in Wales. As a result of extra funding, we have been able to commission additional places, and the successful ‘Return to Practice’ initiative has led to around 300 qualified nurses successfully completing their courses in the past two years.

Mae gan Lywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru gontractau gyda phum sefydliad addysg uwch ledled Cymru er mwyn darparu hyfforddiant nyrsio rhag-gofrestru. Yn ystod y tair blynedd diwethaf, bu cynnydd o 25 y cant yn nifer y nyrsys o dan hyfforddiant yng Nghymru. O ganlyniad i arian ychwanegol, yr ydym wedi gallu comisiynu lleoedd ychwanegol, ac mae’r fenter lwyddiannus ‘Dychwelyd i Nyrsio’ wedi arwain at tua 300 o nyrsys cymwys yn cwblhau eu cyrsiau yn llwyddiannus yn ystod y ddwy flynedd diwethaf.

Janice Gregory spoken in English p. 10

Janice Gregory siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

I am proud to say that my daughter is one of the new nursing trainees. However, concerns have been expressed about the discontinuation of the nursing diploma courses—for which students are eligible for a bursary—in favour of the degree course. Some students believe that that will deter potential nursing students who may have been attracted to the diploma rather than the degree. Will you consider these concerns to ensure that the new system is not putting off potential nursing students and is delivering the nurses that we need to ensure a first-class health service for Wales?

Yr wyf yn falch o ddweud bod fy merch yn un o’r nyrsys dan hyfforddiant newydd. Fodd bynnag, mynegwyd pryderon ynglŷn â rhoi’r gorau i’r cyrsiau diploma nyrsio—y mae myfyrwyr yn gymwys i gael bwrsariaeth ar eu cyfer—o blaid y cwrs gradd. Cred rhai myfyrwyr y bydd hynny yn rhwystro darpar fyfyrwyr nyrsio a allai fod wedi eu denu gan y diploma yn hytrach na’r radd. A wnewch ystyried y pryderon hyn er mwyn sicrhau nad yw’r system newydd yn peri i ddarpar fyfyrwyr nyrsio beidio â dilyn y cwrs a’i bod yn darparu’r nyrsys y mae eu hangen arnom er mwyn sicrhau gwasanaeth iechyd o’r radd flaenaf ar gyfer Cymru?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 10

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

In May 2001, we launched the new nursing/midwifery Fitness for Practice curriculum, which outlined the need for the training of nurses and midwives to be more work-based. Our higher education institutes are required to ensure that all entrants to nurse training meet the minimum qualifications. We are looking towards a three-year higher education diploma or bachelor of nursing degree. From 2004, that course will be at degree level, but we must ensure that that does not deter people. The ‘Return to Practice’ initiative already ensures that we get qualified nurses back into the NHS.

Ym mis Mai 2001, lansiwyd y cwricwlwm nyrsio/bydwreigiaeth newydd, Bod yn Addas i Bractis, a oedd yn amlinellu’r angen i hyfforddiant nyrsys a bydwragedd fod yn fwy seiliedig ar waith. Mae’n ofynnol i’n sefydliadau addysg uwch sicrhau bod pob newydd-ddyfodiad i hyfforddiant nyrsio yn bodloni’r cymwysterau gofynnol. Yr ydym yn anelu at ddiploma addysg uwch tair blynedd neu radd baglor mewn nyrsio. O 2004, bydd y cwrs hwnnw ar lefel gradd, ond rhaid inni sicrhau nad yw hynny’n peri i bobl beidio â dilyn y cwrs. Mae’r fenter ‘Dychwelyd i Nyrsio’ eisoes yn sicrhau bod nyrsys cymwys yn dychwelyd i’r GIG.

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 10

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

What measures will you introduce to ensure that newly trained nurses stay in the profession? As you know, there are now more qualified nurses who are not practising nurses than those who are.

Pa fesurau a gyflwynwch er mwyn sicrhau bod nyrsys sydd newydd eu hyfforddi yn aros yn y proffesiwn? Fel y gwyddoch, erbyn hyn ceir mwy o nyrsys cymwys nad ydynt yn nyrsio na’r rhai hynny sy’n nyrsio.

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 10

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

What is important is that we attracted 300 qualified nurses back into nursing through our ‘Return to Practice’ initiative. They have been attracted back because we have put in place more flexible working arrangements. Our human resources and recruitment and retention strategies have made it clear that we must ensure that nurses can work on more flexible terms. By taking into account family circumstances and their needs, we will welcome them back and retain them in the NHS. Investment in childcare is critical for young nurses and those who have families. We must also ensure that more nurses come into the system. As a result of the extra funding, more than 4,300 nurses, midwives and health visitors will have been trained by 2004. That is double what we had four years ago.

Yr hyn sy’n bwysig yw ein bod wedi denu 300 o nyrsys cymwys yn ôl i nyrsio drwy ein menter ‘Dychwelyd i Nyrsio’. Fe’u denwyd yn ôl oherwydd inni sefydlu trefniadau gwaith mwy hyblyg. Mae ein strategaethau adnoddau dynol a recriwtio a chadw staff wedi dangos bod yn rhaid inni sicrhau bod nyrsys yn gallu gweithio yn fwy hyblyg. Drwy ystyried amgylchiadau teuluol a’u hanghenion, byddwn yn eu croesawu yn ôl ac yn eu cadw yn y GIG. Mae buddsoddi mewn gofal plant yn hanfodol ar gyfer nyrsys ifanc a’r rhai hynny â theuluoedd. Rhaid inni hefyd sicrhau bod mwy o nyrsys yn dod i mewn i’r system. O ganlyniad i’r arian ychwanegol, bydd dros 4,300 o nyrsys, bydwragedd ac ymwelwyr iechyd wedi’u hyfforddi erbyn 2004. Mae hynny ddwywaith y nifer a oedd gennym bedair blynedd yn ôl.

Elin Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 11

Elin Jones spoken in Welsh p. 11

Mae prinder mawr o nyrsys seiciatryddol yng Ngheredigion ac y mae’r rhai sy’n gweithio ym maes iechyd meddwl sydd â diddordeb mewn derbyn hyfforddiant ar gyfer y cymhwyster hwn yn methu â wynebu’r gost a’r golled cyflog o fynychu’r cwrs hyfforddiant yn Abertawe. Felly, maent yn penderfynu peidio â gwneud yr hyfforddiant. A fyddech yn fodlon ystyried cais gan Ymddiriedolaeth GIG Sir Benfro a Derwen i ariannu costau hyfforddiant o’r math hwn ar gyfer pobl sy’n byw mewn ardaloedd gwledig ac yn bell o’r ysgolion hyfforddi?

There is a great shortage of psychiatric nurses in Ceredigion and those who work in the mental health sector who are interested in being trained for this qualification cannot face the cost and loss of earnings of attending the training course in Swansea. Therefore, they decide not to undertake training. Would you be prepared to consider a request from the Pembrokeshire and Derwen NHS Trust to fund the costs of this type of training for people who live in rural areas and are far away from the training schools?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 11

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

I have dealt with the importance of mental health nursing through our strategy ‘Realising the Potential’. This issue is relevant to the whole of Wales, not only rural areas. We must ensure that we train and support nurses entering the mental health sector in order to support those vital services. I will be looking across the board at the difficulties encountered by nurses in accessing that type of training.

Yr wyf wedi delio â phwysigrwydd nyrsio iechyd meddwl drwy ein strategaeth ‘Gwireddu’r Potensial’. Mae’r mater hwn yn berthnasol i Gymru gyfan, nid dim ond i ardaloedd gwledig. Rhaid inni sicrhau ein bod yn hyfforddi ac yn cynorthwyo nyrsys sy’n dod i mewn i’r sector iechyd meddwl er mwyn cynnal y gwasanaethau hanfodol hyn. Byddaf yn edrych yn gyffredinol ar yr anawsterau a wyneba nyrsys wrth geisio ymgymryd â’r math hwnnw o hyfforddiant.

Achosion Llys yn Erbyn y GIG

Litigation against the NHS

C6 David Lloyd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 11

Q6 David Lloyd spoken in Welsh p. 11

A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad ar sefyllfa’r GIG yng Nghymru o ran dwyn achosion llys yn ei erbyn? (OAQ22444)

Will the Minister make a statement on litigation in the NHS in Wales? (OAQ22444)

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 11

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

The cost of meeting clinical negligence claims has increased. The most effective way to reduce the financial burden of clinical negligence claims is to prevent them from arising in the first place. The Welsh risk management standards have been developed to help the NHS better manage itself to protect patients against risks of all kinds.

Mae’r gost o dalu hawliadau esgeuluster clinigol wedi cynyddu. Y ffordd fwyaf effeithiol o leihau baich ariannol hawliadau esgeuluster clinigol yw eu hatal rhag codi yn y lle cyntaf. Datblygwyd y safonau rheoli risg yng Nghymru er mwyn helpu’r GIG i reoli ei hun yn well er mwyn diogelu cleifion rhag pob math o risg.

David Lloyd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 12

David Lloyd spoken in Welsh p. 12

Gyda chostau erlyn cwynion drwy’r llys yn cynyddu’n echrydus, fel y soniasoch, a ydych yn ystyried atebion eraill, megis iawndal di-fai?

With the costs of litigation increasing at an appalling rate, as you mentioned, are you considering other solutions, such as no-fault compensation?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 12

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

We are considering that with our UK colleagues. It is important that we refer to the Welsh risk management standards, which the health service is now considering with its risk managers’ forum and claims managers’ network. We must accept that we operate in a more litigious society, and that people are more prepared to put forward claims. The Audit Committee has given due to attention to this, as have I as the Minister.

Yr ydym yn ystyried hynny gyda’n cydweithwyr yn y DU. Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn cyfeirio at y safonau rheoli risg yng Nghymru, y mae’r gwasanaeth iechyd wrthi’n eu hystyried gyda’i fforwm rheolwyr risg a’i rwydwaith rheolwyr hawliadau. Rhaid inni dderbyn ein bod yn gweithredu mewn cymdeithas fwy cyfreithgar, a bod pobl yn fwy parod i wneud hawliadau. Mae’r Pwyllgor Archwilio wedi rhoi’r sylw priodol i hyn, fel yr wyf innau fel y Gweinidog.

Nick Bourne The Leader of the Welsh Conservatives spoken in English p. 12

Nick Bourne Arweinydd Ceidwadwyr Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

Have you made any assessment of the likely cost in terms of litigation if you were to move to a guaranteed waiting time for all treatments of six months? That is clearly desirable, but what would be the cost if you were to implement it across Wales?

A ydych wedi asesu y gost debygol o ran achosion llys pe baech yn symud i amser aros gwarantedig o chwe mis ar gyfer pob triniaeth? Mae hynny’n amlwg yn ddymunol, ond beth fyddai’r gost pe byddech yn ei weithredu ledled Cymru?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 12

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

The issues for patients coming forward with claims are clinical ones related to clinical negligence. This is not about the targets that are set to improve health service standards in Wales, it is about clinical negligence.

Mae’r materion ar gyfer cleifion sy’n cyflwyno hawliadau yn rhai clinigol sy’n gysylltiedig ag esgeuluster clinigol. Nid yw’n ymwneud â’r targedau a osodir i wella safonau y gwasanaeth iechyd yng Nghymru, mae’n ymwneud ag esgeuluster clinigol.

Cymdeithas Cartrefi Nyrsio a Phreswyl Gogledd Cymru

The North Wales Nursing and Residential Homes Association

Q7 Peter Rogers spoken in English p. 12

C7 Peter Rogers siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

Can the Minister make a statement on grants available to help fund fee increases for North Wales Nursing and Residential Homes Association? (OAQ22353)

A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad ar y grantiau sydd ar gael i helpu i ariannu’r cynnydd yn y ffioedd i Gymdeithas Cartrefi Nyrsio a Phreswyl Gogledd Cymru? (OAQ22353)

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 12

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

Over and above mainstream funding provided to local authorities in Wales, I have provided an additional £12 million in grant to local authorities to help protect capacity in the care home sector and to tackle delayed transfers of care. Local authorities have used some £6.74 million of this extra money to increase care home fees. In north Wales, over half of the £3 million allocated has been used on increasing independent sector fees. From next year, this support will be consolidated, with additional resources going into the local government settlement.

Yn ychwanegol i arian prif-ffrwd a ddarperir i awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru, yr wyf wedi darparu £12 miliwn ychwanegol mewn grantiau i awdurdodau lleol er mwyn helpu i ddiogelu capasiti yn y sector cartrefi gofal ac i fynd i’r afael ag oedi wrth drosglwyddo gofal. Mae awdurdodau lleol wedi defnyddio tua £6.74 miliwn o’r arian ychwanegol hwn i gynyddu ffioedd cartrefi gofal. Yn y Gogledd, defnyddiwyd dros hanner y £3 miliwn a glustnodwyd i gynyddu ffioedd y sector annibynnol. O’r flwyddyn nesaf, caiff y cymorth hwn ei gyfuno, gydag adnoddau ychwanegol yn cael eu cynnwys yn y setliad llywodraeth leol.

Peter Rogers spoken in English p. 13

Peter Rogers siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

In our meeting before Christmas you told me that I was scaremongering. However, the situation has reached crisis point, particularly in Anglesey. The Isle of Anglesey County Council’s latest announcement a fortnight ago was of an increase to care homes of about 3 per cent, of 2.77 per cent to nursing homes, and just over 3 per cent to residential care homes. This will mean problems throughout the area; it means an increase of about £8.75. You know that that is not sustainable. What action can you take against the council to make it realise the seriousness of its mistake?

Yn ein cyfarfod cyn y Nadolig, dywedasoch wrthyf fy mod yn codi bwganod. Fodd bynnag, mae’r sefyllfa yn argyfyngus erbyn hyn, yn enwedig yn Ynys Môn. Cyhoeddiad diweddaraf Cyngor Sir Ynys Môn, bythefnos yn ôl, oedd y byddai cynnydd o tua 3 y cant i gartrefi gofal, o 2.77 y cant i gartrefi nyrsio, ac o ychydig dros 3 y cant i gartrefi gofal preswyl. Bydd hyn yn creu problemau drwy’r ardal; golyga gynnydd o tua £8.75. Gwyddoch nad yw hynny’n gynaliadwy. Pa gamau y gallwch eu cymryd yn erbyn y cyngor er mwyn iddo sylweddoli difrifoldeb ei gamgymeriad?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 13

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

You devalue the word ‘crisis’, Peter. That is the difficulty. We have useful and, I hope, constructive discussions about how we can support local government in meeting its responsibilities in relation to commissioning care for vulnerable elderly people. The extra £12 million that I have allocated to local government has enabled it to increase fee levels to its care homes. Most importantly, it has enabled it to develop other care packages, such as domiciliary care and care to allow people to return home, as well as to fund care packages for those in the care home sector.

Yr ydych yn dibrisio’r gair ‘argyfwng’, Peter. Dyna’r anhawster. Yr ydym yn cael trafodaethau defnyddiol a, gobeithiaf, adeiladol ynglŷn â sut y gallwn gynorthwyo llywodraeth leol i gyflawni ei chyfrifoldebau mewn perthynas â chomisiynu gofal ar gyfer pobl hŷn ddiamddiffyn. Mae’r £12 miliwn ychwanegol a ddyrannwyd gennyf i lywodraeth leol wedi ei galluogi i gynyddu lefelau ffioedd i’w chartrefi gofal. Yn bwysicaf oll, mae wedi ei galluogi i ddatblygu pecynnau gofal eraill, fel gofal yn y cartref a gofal i alluogi pobl i ddychwelyd i’w cartrefi, yn ogystal ag ariannu pecynnau gofal i’r rhai hynny yn y sector cartrefi gofal.

Peter Rogers spoken in English p. 13

Peter Rogers siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

What action will you take?

Pa gamau y byddwch yn eu cymryd?

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 13

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

Order. Members may ask one supplementary question only, unless they are a party leader.

Trefn. Dim ond un cwestiwn atodol y gall Aelodau ei ofyn, oni bai eu bod yn arweinydd plaid.

Eleanor Burnham spoken in English p. 13

Eleanor Burnham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

Do you share my concern, Minister, that, unless we ensure adequate funding to maintain these residential and nursing homes in north Wales, we will continue to have far too many patients stuck in hospitals instead of being discharged?

A ydych yn rhannu fy mhryder, Weinidog, y bydd llawer gormod o gleifion yn parhau i orfod aros mewn ysbytai yn hytrach na chael eu rhyddhau oni fyddwn yn sicrhau arian digonol i gynnal y cartrefi nyrsio a phreswyl hyn yng Ngogledd Cymru?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 13

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

We have allocated an extra £12 million in grants to local authorities to help protect capacity. This is about ensuring that elderly people, many of whom want to return to their homes, have choices. Members should also focus on the importance of funding domiciliary care in the community. The Finance Minister has allocated funding for the rapid response adaptations programme, which is making a difference. We must also recognise that over half of the £3 million allocated to the relevant local authorities has gone to providing increased fee levels in the north Wales care homes sector. I regularly meet Care Forum Wales and the Nursing and Residential Care Homes Association to discuss these issues in a constructive partnership spirit.

Yr ydym wedi dyrannu £12 miliwn ychwanegol mewn grantiau i awdurdodau lleol er mwyn helpu i ddiogelu capasiti. Mae hyn yn ymwneud â sicrhau bod gan bobl hŷn, y mae llawer ohonynt am ddychwelyd i’w cartrefi, ddewisiadau. Dylai Aelodau hefyd ganolbwyntio ar bwysigrwydd ariannu gofal yn y cartref yn y gymuned. Mae’r Gweinidog Cyllid wedi dyrannu arian ar gyfer y rhaglen addasiadau ymateb cyflym, sy’n gwneud gwahaniaeth. Rhaid inni hefyd gydnabod bod dros hanner y £3 miliwn a ddyrannwyd i’r awdurdodau lleol perthnasol wedi mynd tuag at ddarparu lefelau uwch o ffioedd yn y sector cartrefi gofal yng Ngogledd Cymru. Yr wyf yn cwrdd â Fforwm Gofal Cymru a’r Gymdeithas Cartrefi Nyrsio a Gofal Preswyl yn rheolaidd er mwyn trafod y materion hyn mewn ysbryd o bartneriaeth adeiladol.

Cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes

Questions to the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 14

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

There is a temporary problem with the e-mail connection. I am receiving e-mails from the Chamber, but not from elsewhere. If your researchers are busily beavering away trying to catch my attention, their messages are not coming through. Therefore, you should indicate that you want to be called by using an appropriate sign until the system is back to normal.

Mae problem dros dro gyda’r cysylltiad e-bost. Yr wyf yn derbyn negeseuon e-bost o’r Siambr, ond nid o unman arall. Os yw eich ymchwilwyr wrthi’n brysur yn ceisio dal fy sylw, nid yw eu negeseuon yn fy nghyrraedd. O ganlyniad, dylech nodi eich bod am i mi eich galw drwy ddefnyddio arwydd priodol nes bod y system yn gweithio’n iawn eto.

Amddifadedd Cymdeithasol

Social Deprivation

Q1 Ann Jones spoken in English p. 14

C1 Ann Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

What consideration has the Minister given to introducing a requirement that a social deprivation factor be a compulsory feature of local education authorities’ funding formulae? (OAQ22373)

Pa ystyriaeth y mae’r Gweinidog wedi’i rhoi i gyflwyno gofyniad bod amddifadedd cymdeithasol yn un o nodweddion gorfodol fformiwlâu cyllido’r awdurdodau addysg lleol? (OAQ22373)

Q6 Ann Jones spoken in English p. 14

C6 Ann Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

What considerations has the Minister given to introducing a requirement that a minimum percentage of Welsh local education authorities’ delegated school budget be distributed on the basis of social deprivation? (OAQ22372)

Pa ystyriaethau y mae’r Gweinidog wedi’u rhoi i gyflwyno gofyniad bod canran orfodol o’r arian a gaiff yr awdurdodau addysg lleol ar gyfer cyllidebau dirprwyedig ysgolion yn cael ei dosbarthu ar sail amddifadedd cymdeithasol? (OAQ22372)

Jane Davidson The Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning spoken in English p. 14

Jane Davidson Y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

Currently, local funding formulae must distribute at least 75 per cent of primary and secondary school budgets using pupil led factors. Each local education authority can decide on the distribution of the remaining funding from a list of factors. One of these factors is social deprivation in the area from which the school draws its pupils. It is for each authority to decide which factors it wishes to use and what weighting should be given to them. Consultation will begin shortly on new regulations for 2004-05 onwards and all views will be taken into account.

Ar hyn o bryd, rhaid i fformiwlâu ariannu lleol ddosbarthu o leiaf 75 y cant o gyllidebau ysgolion cynradd ac uwchradd gan ddefnyddio ffactorau sy’n seiliedig ar ddisgyblion. Gall pob awdurdod addysg lleol benderfynu sut i ddosbarthu gweddill yr arian o restr o ffactorau. Un o’r ffactorau hyn yw amddifadedd cymdeithasol yn yr ardal y mae disgyblion yr ysgol yn dod ohoni. Cyfrifoldeb pob awdurdod yw penderfynu pa ffactorau y dymuna eu defnyddio a faint o bwys y dylid ei roi arnynt. Bydd ymgynghoriad yn dechrau’n fuan ar reoliadau newydd ar gyfer 2004-05 ymlaen a bydd pob barn yn cael ei hystyried.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 15

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

As I have accepted the request that these questions be grouped, Ann Jones may ask two supplementary questions.

Gan fy mod wedi derbyn cais i’r ddau gwestiwn hyn gael eu gofyn ynghyd, caiff Ann Jones ofyn dau gwestiwn atodol.

Ann Jones spoken in English p. 15

Ann Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

I am pleased to see that there will be a review shortly. It is vital that any new formula must, while being clear and transparent, reflect and emphasise the need for greater resources to meet the training and pastoral needs of children from our disadvantaged communities. Do you agree that this should be a must, and not a maybe, on the list of regulations?

Yr wyf yn falch o weld y caiff adolygiad ei gynnal yn fuan. Mae’n angenrheidiol bod unrhyw fformiwla newydd, tra’i fod yn glir a thryloyw, yn adlewyrchu a phwysleisio’r angen am fwy o adnoddau i ddiwallu anghenion hyfforddi a bugeilio plant o’n cymunedau difreintiedig. A ydych yn cytuno y dylai hyn fod yn bendant ar y rhestr rheoliadau ac nid o bosibl?

Secondly, there is a link between social deprivation and educational attainment. Will you, in the list of maybes, consider the level of pre-education attainment of children from disadvantaged communities and use that as an additional resource for schools in those communities?

Yn ail, mae cysylltiad rhwng amddifadedd cymdeithasol a chyrhaeddiad addysgol. A wnewch chi, ar y rhestr o bethau posibl, ystyried lefel cyrhaeddiad cyn-addysg plant o gymunedau difreintiedig a defnyddio hynny fel adnodd ychwanegol ar gyfer ysgolion yn y cymunedau hynny?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 15

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

Currently, some 30 factors can be taken into account by an LEA in its funding formula for secondary schools. The factors range widely and include special educational needs, which is an important factor that contributes to a deprivation agenda; pupils for whom neither English nor Welsh is their first language; and the size and condition of a school’s buildings and grounds in relation to those of other schools maintained by the authority. There is a range of factors because this is a complex field.

Ar hyn o bryd, gall awdurdod addysg lleol ystyried tua 30 o ffactorau yn ei fformiwla ariannu ar gyfer ysgolion uwchradd. Amrywia’r ffactorau’n fawr ac maent yn cynnwys anghenion addysgol arbennig, sy’n ffactor pwysig sy’n cyfrannu at agenda amddifadedd; disgyblion nad Cymraeg na Saesneg yw eu hiaith gyntaf; a maint a chyflwr adeiladau a thir ysgol mewn perthynas ag ysgolion eraill a gynhelir gan yr awdurdod. Ceir amrywiaeth o ffactorau gan fod hwn yn faes cymhleth.

As part of the consultation I will be interested to learn why several authorities have recently included deprivation in their formula although they have not done hitherto. We cannot make the inclusion of deprivation in the formula compulsory, but if authorities were able to sign up voluntarily to note which mechanism they would use to measure deprivation that would be an immense advancement. Currently, deprivation cannot be a compulsory feature of a funding formula in legislation; it can only be a measure that is taken into account by authorities.

Fel rhan o’r ymgynghoriad, bydd gennyf ddiddordeb i wybod pam mae nifer o awdurdodau yn ddiweddar wedi cynnwys amddifadedd yn eu fformiwlâu er nad ydynt wedi gwneud hynny o’r blaen. Ni allwn orfodi awdurdodau i gynnwys amddifadedd yn eu fformiwlâu, ond pe byddai awdurdodau yn gallu cofrestru’n wirfoddol i nodi pa ddull y byddent yn ei ddefnyddio i fesur amddifadedd, byddai hynny’n gam mawr ymlaen. Ar hyn o bryd, ni all amddifadedd fod yn nodwedd orfodol o fformiwla ariannu mewn deddfwriaeth; dim ond mesur y gall awdurdodau ei ystyried ydyw.

Gareth Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 16

Gareth Jones spoken in Welsh p. 16

Mae trafferthion diweddaraf ELWa—Dysgu ac Addysgu Cymru—wedi tanseilio ffydd ysgolion, colegau ac awdurdodau addysg yng ngallu’r cyngor i weithredu’r fformiwla cyllido newydd yn llwyddiannus o Ebrill 2004. Dywedodd y Comisiwn Archwilio i ELWa ddioddef am na chafodd flwyddyn gysgodol er mwyn cadw golwg ar, a datrys, anawsterau cynnar. Felly, a fuasech yn cytuno y byddai’n ddoeth gohirio mewnoli’r dull ariannu newydd tan Ebrill 2005? Oni fyddai penderfyniad o’r fath yn cael ei groesawu gan y sefydliadau addysgol ledled Cymru a chan ELWa ei hun, gan fod cyfraniad y cyngor o bwys tyngedfennol i’r gwasanaeth addysg a hyfforddiant yng Nghymru?

The latest difficulties of ELWa—Education and Learning Wales—have undermined schools, colleges and education authorities’ faith in the council’s ability to successfully operate the new funding formula from April 2004. The Audit Commission said that ELWa suffered because it did not have a shadow year in order to monitor and resolve early difficulties. Therefore, would you agree that it would be wise to defer internalising the new funding formula until April 2005? Would such a decision not be welcomed by educational institutions throughout Wales and by ELWa itself, given that the council’s contribution is of crucial importance to the education and training service in Wales?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 16

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

This question relates to the impending consultation on the funding formula for local authorities. The Audit Committee has been taking evidence from Education and Learning Wales and the Assembly concerning the issues raised by the Auditor General for Wales, as ELWa’s auditor. The Audit Committee has not yet considered all the evidence, and it has not yet agreed its findings. Therefore, it has not yet asked the Assembly Government to make a full response, which we are bound by Standing Orders to do within 30 days of that representation. As the Minister, I am prevented from commenting on the issues under consideration by the Assembly’s Audit Committee. I look forward to the time when I can comment fully on all the issues raised.

Cyfeiria’r cwestiwn hwn at yr ymgynghoriad sydd ar gychwyn ar fformiwla ariannu awdurdodau lleol. Mae’r Pwyllgor Archwilio wedi bod yn derbyn tystiolaeth gan Dysgu ac Addysgu Cymru a’r Cynulliad mewn perthynas â’r materion a godwyd gan Archwilydd Cyffredinol Cymru, fel archwilydd ELWa. Nid yw’r Pwyllgor Archwilio wedi ystyried yr holl dystiolaeth eto, ac nid yw wedi cytuno ar ei ganfyddiadau. O ganlyniad, nid yw wedi gofyn i Lywodraeth y Cynulliad ymateb yn llawn eto, ac y mae’n ofynnol inni wneud hynny o fewn 30 diwrnod i’r cais hwnnw yn ôl y Rheolau Sefydlog. Fel y Gweinidog, fe’m hatelir rhag gwneud sylw ar y materion o dan ystyriaeth gan Bwyllgor Archwilio’r Cynulliad. Edrychaf ymlaen at yr adeg pan allaf wneud sylwadau llawn ar yr holl faterion a godwyd.

Huw Lewis spoken in English p. 16

Huw Lewis siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

The biggest single determinant of educational success or failure is still the accident of birth. That is a socioeconomic lottery in an unequal society. Yet, educational spending levels across Wales are themselves a lottery. How can it be right that spend per pupil in Merthyr, for example, is just half that allocated in more prosperous parts of Wales? Surely more can be done to assist local education authorities such as Merthyr, and Ann Jones made a powerful point.

Yn anffodus, y ffactor unigol pwysicaf o hyd o ran pennu llwyddiant neu fethiant addysgol yw’r ardal ble y caiff plentyn ei eni. Mae hynny’n loteri economaidd-gymdeithasol mewn cymdeithas anghyfartal. Eto’i gyd, mae lefelau gwariant addysgol ledled Cymru yn loteri eu hunain. Sut y gall fod yn iawn mai dim ond hanner yr hyn a ddyrennir mewn rhannau mwy llewyrchus o Gymru a warir fesul disgybl ym Merthyr? Siawns y gellir gwneud mwy i gynorthwyo awdurdodau addysg lleol megis Merthyr, a gwnaeth Ann Jones bwynt cryf.

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 17

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

Funding to Welsh local education authorities is not hypothecated, yet it has delivered equivalent investment when compared with the far more strict use of funding across the border in England. We have seen some tremendous advances in previous years, including in your local education authority, on quality of provision and on pupil attainment. I encourage all LEAs to think actively about how they can use the funding formulae opportunity to continue to improve the attainment of all pupils in their care, when they respond to the review of the funding formulae.

Nid yw ariannu i awdurdodau iechyd lleol yng Nghymru wedi’i bridiannu, ond eto y mae wedi darparu buddsoddiad cyfatebol o’i gymharu â’r defnydd llawer mwy llym o arian dros y ffin yn Lloegr. Yr ydym wedi gweld datblygiadau aruthrol mewn blynyddoedd blaenorol, gan gynnwys yn eich awdurdod addysg lleol chi, o ran ansawdd y ddarpariaeth a chyrhaeddiad disgyblion. Anogaf pob AALl i fynd ati i feddwl sut y gallant ddefnyddio cyfle’r fformiwla ariannu i wella cyrhaeddiad pob disgybl yn eu gofal, pan fyddant yn ymateb i adolygiad y fformiwlâu ariannu.

David Ian Jones spoken in English p. 17

David Ian Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

Do you agree that social deprivation might be targeted effectively by introducing educational maintenance allowances for sixth form students, as is the case in England?

A ydych yn cytuno y gallai amddifadedd cymdeithasol gael ei dargedu’n effeithiol drwy gyflwyno lwfansau cynhaliaeth addysgol i ddisgyblion chweched dosbarth, fel sy’n digwydd yn Lloegr?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 17

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

Last year, in Wales, only 1,000 16-year-olds left full-time education and did not go on to employment, education or training. That is a manageable figure. We are looking hard at that, and I will be talking later on this afternoon about our 14 to 19 agenda, and about how we can reduce that figure to zero. We have exceeded the targets set for 2002. We are in a different situation to England. That is the point of devolution: to allow us to take the right spending decisions that reflect our situation in Wales. Not enough people here over the age of 18 were going on to college and university. That is why we have put our investment into Assembly learning grants.

Y llynedd, yng Nghymru, dim ond 1,000 o ddisgyblion 16 mlwydd oed a adawodd addysg llawn amser nad aethant ymlaen i gyflogaeth, addysg neu hyfforddiant. Mae hwnnw’n ffigur y gellir ei reoli. Yr ydym yn edrych yn fanwl ar hynny, ac yn ddiweddarach y prynhawn yma byddaf yn trafod ein hagenda 14 i 19, a sut y gallwn ostwng y ffigur hwn i ddim. Yr ydym wedi rhagori ar y targedau a osodwyd ar gyfer 2002. Yr ydym mewn sefyllfa wahanol i Loegr. Dyna ddiben datganoli: ein galluogi ni i wneud y penderfyniadau cywir ar wariant er mwyn adlewyrchu ein sefyllfa yng Nghymru. Nid oedd digon o bobl yma dros 18 oed yn mynd i goleg neu brifysgol. Dyna pam ein bod wedi buddsoddi yng ngrantiau dysgu’r Cynulliad.

Peilot o’r Fagloriaeth Gymreig

Piloting the Welsh Baccalaureate

Q2 Delyth Evans spoken in English p. 17

C2 Delyth Evans siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

Can the Minister make a statement on the piloting of the Welsh baccalaureate? (OAQ22363)

A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am gynnal peilot o’r fagloriaeth Gymreig? (OAQ22363)

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 18

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

I am pleased that the Welsh Joint Education Committee has made excellent progress in developing the Welsh baccalaureate. The fully bilingual pilot will commence in September 2003, and there has been an encouraging response to this exciting, innovative development from schools and colleges across Wales. The pilot scheme may turn out to be one of the most radical changes to the qualifications agenda in Wales for many years. It will broaden the educational experience of our young people and help to attract and retain more of them in post-16 education.

Yr wyf yn falch bod Cyd-bwyllgor Addysg Cymru wedi gwneud cynnydd ardderchog wrth ddatblygu’r fagloriaeth Gymreig. Bydd y cynllun peilot cwbl ddwyieithog yn dechrau ym mis Medi 2003, a chafwyd ymateb calonogol i’r datblygiad cyffrous, arloesol hwn oddi wrth ysgolion a cholegau dros Gymru. Efallai y bydd y cynllun peilot hwn yn un o’r newidiadau mwyaf radical i’r agenda cymwysterau yng Nghymru ers blynyddoedd. Bydd yn ehangu profiad addysgol ein pobl ifanc ac yn gymorth i ddenu a chadw mwy ohonynt mewn addysg ôl-16.

Delyth Evans spoken in English p. 18

Delyth Evans siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

You will know that one of the pilot centres is in Builth Wells, in the region that I represent. People there tell me that it is welcome. Will you tell us what time frame you have in mind for the roll-out of the Welsh baccalaureate across Wales?

Gwyddoch fod un o’r canolfannau peilot yn Llanfair-ym-Muallt, yn y rhanbarth yr wyf yn ei chynrychioli. Dywed pobl yn y fan honno wrthyf eu bod yn ei chroesawu. A ddywedwch wrthym beth yw’r amserlen sydd gennych ar gyfer cyflwyno’r fagloriaeth Gymreig dros Gymru?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 18

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

A total of 18 pilot centres are participating fully in the pilot scheme this year. In addition to Builth Wells, Coleg Powys and Coleg Sir Gâr are in your constituency. Nearly 30 further centres have shown interest in getting involved in the pilots in the next couple of years. There is a real excitement about the development of the Welsh baccalaureate. It is the first distinctive programme for 16 to 19-year-olds in Wales. It is exciting and innovative, it has been designed by the key Welsh awarding body for the needs of Wales, and it fits well with our proposals for a more flexible and inclusive 14 to 19 phase.

Mae cyfanswm o 18 o ganolfannau peilot yn cymryd rhan lawn yn y cynllun peilot eleni. Yn ogystal â Llanfair-ym-Muallt, mae Coleg Powys a Choleg Sir Gâr yn eich etholaeth chi. Mae bron i 30 o ganolfannau eraill wedi dangos diddordeb mewn cymryd rhan yn y cynlluniau peilot yn y flwyddyn neu ddwy nesaf. Mae gwir gyffro ynglŷn â datblygiad y fagloriaeth Gymreig. Dyma’r rhaglen benodol gyntaf ar gyfer pobl ifanc 16 i 19 oed yng Nghymru. Mae’n gyffrous ac arloesol, fe’i cynlluniwyd gan y corff dyfarnu Cymreig allweddol ar gyfer anghenion Cymru, ac mae’n cyd-fynd yn dda â’n cynigion mwy hyblyg a chynhwysfawr ar gyfer y cyfnod 14 i 19.

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 18

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

You mentioned that many people and organisations were extremely excited by the prospect of the Welsh baccalaureate scheme. As you said in your previous answer, the Welsh Joint Education Committee was awarded the contract to pilot the scheme. Will you tell the Assembly how many organisations submitted a bid for the contract to pilot the scheme?

Soniasoch fod llawer o bobl a sefydliadau wedi eu cyffroi’n fawr gan gynllun y Fagloriaeth Gymreig. Fel y dywedasoch yn eich ateb blaenorol, dyfarnwyd y contract i Gyd-bwyllgor Addysg Cymru i gynnal peilot o’r cynllun. A ddywedwch wrth y Cynulliad sawl sefydliad a gyflwynodd gais am y contract i gynnal peilot o’r cynllun?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 18

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

I am happy to tell the Assembly that the WJEC was the only organisation that made a bid to run the pilot scheme and that it fully met the quality threshold. As a Minister, I am proud of the WJEC, which is completely independent of Government, and which has delivered the best support for qualifications in England and Wales over the last few years. I hope that Members share my support for the way in which the WJEC has undertaken its qualifications agenda.

Yr wyf yn falch o ddweud wrth y Cynulliad mai CBAC oedd yr unig sefydliad a gyflwynodd gynnig i gynnal peilot o’r cynllun a chydymffurfiasant yn llwyr â’r trothwy ansawdd. Fel Gweinidog, yr wyf yn falch o CBAC, sy’n hollol annibynnol ar y Llywodraeth, ac sydd wedi darparu’r gefnogaeth orau ar gyfer cymwysterau yng Nghymru a Lloegr yn ystod y blynyddoedd diwethaf. Gobeithiaf fod Aelodau yn rhannu fy nghefnogaeth i’r ffordd y mae CBAC wedi ymgymryd â’i agenda cymwysterau.

Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 19

Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 19

Yr wyf yn—[Torri ar draws.]

I am—[Interruption.]

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 19

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

Order. Only one supplementary question at a time can be asked, otherwise I may not call any Members to ask supplementary questions.

Trefn. Dim ond un cwestiwn atodol y gellir ei ofyn ar y tro, neu mae’n bosibl na alwaf ar unrhyw Aelod i ofyn cwestiynau atodol.

Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 19

Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 19

Gan fy mod yn tynnu ymlaen o ran oedran, nid wyf am gynhyrfu cymaint â’r Gweinidog ynghylch y mater hwn. Pa drafodaethau a gafodd y Gweinidog â Gareth Jones, awdur maniffesto 1999 y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol a’r person a wnaeth yr awgrym gwreiddiol y dylid sefydlu’r fagloriaeth Gymreig, ynghylch y cynllun peilot, sy’n llurgunio’n llwyr ei argymhellion ef? A yw’r Gweinidog wedi cwrdd ag ef i drafod y mater?

As I am getting on in years, I will not get as excited as the Minister about this issue. What discussions has the Minister had with Gareth Jones, the author of the Liberal Democrats’ 1999 manifesto and the person who first suggested that a Welsh baccalaureate be established, about the pilot scheme, which completely distorts his recommendations? Has the Minister met him to discuss the issue?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 19

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

I met him prior to the announcement of the tender process. I have not met him since.

Cyfarfûm ag ef cyn cyhoeddi’r broses dendro. Ni chyfarfûm ag ef ers hynny.

Gwella Sgiliau Sylfaenol

Improving Basic Skills

Q3 John Griffiths spoken in English p. 19

C3 John Griffiths siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

Will the Minister make a statement on the latest position on improving basic skills in Wales? (OAQ22425) [R]

A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am y sefyllfa ddiweddaraf o ran gwella sgiliau sylfaenol yng Nghymru? (OAQ22425) [R]

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 19

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

I refer you to the answer that I gave to Huw Lewis on 27 November 2002 in response to OAQ20580. Also, the language and play scheme, which shows parents and carers how to stimulate the language and literacy of their babies and young children, is now available in all local education authority areas in Wales. Over 200 employers have expressed an interest in signing up to the employer pledge, and a joint report by the Confederation of British Industry Wales and the Wales Trades Union Congress, ‘Skills for Productivity and Employability’, has noted raising the basic skills of employees as a priority.

Fe’ch cyfeiriaf at yr ateb a roddais i Huw Lewis ar 27 Tachwedd 2002 mewn ymateb i OAQ20580. Hefyd, mae’r cynllun iaith a chwarae, sy’n dangos i rieni a gofalwyr sut i sbarduno iaith a llythrennedd eu babanod a’u plant ifanc, ar gael ymhob ardal awdurdod addysg lleol yng Nghymru. Mae dros 200 o gyflogwyr wedi dangos diddordeb mewn arwyddo’r addewid cyflogwyr, ac mae cyd-adroddiad ‘Skills for Productivity and Employability’ gan Gydffederasiwn Diwydiant Prydain Cymru a Chyngres Undebau Llafur Cymru wedi nodi gwella sgiliau sylfaenol cyflogeion fel blaenoriaeth.

John Griffiths spoken in English p. 20

John Griffiths siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

Do you agree that the voluntary sector’s work on basic skills deserves full recognition and support? One such example is community work that engages those who lack basic skills by way of informal social initiatives that build confidence in those with low self-esteem and encourage them back into education, training and the workplace.

A gytunwch fod gwaith y sector gwirfoddol ar sgiliau sylfaenol yn haeddu cydnabyddiaeth a chefnogaeth lawn? Un esiampl yw gwaith cymunedol sy’n cynnwys y rhai hynny sydd heb sgiliau sylfaenol mewn mentrau cymdeithasol anffurfiol sy’n magu hyder yn y rhai sydd â diffyg hunan-barch ac yn eu hannog i fynd yn ôl i addysg, hyfforddiant a’r gweithle.

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 20

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

The basic skills agenda is relevant to all sectors of delivery in Wales. I was extremely pleased, for example, that over 72 per cent of parents surveyed following last year’s ‘read with me’ promotional campaign agreed that the campaign made them realise the importance of reading with their children and participating in learning. I was recently involved in launching a specific literacy programme for the tenants of a housing association, using the association’s ability to have a dialogue with all its tenants to encourage them to read with their children. Everyone has a part to play in this agenda—I am delighted that eight Assembly sponsored public bodies and 240 other organisations have expressed an interest in the employer pledge—if basic skills are to be tackled on an all-Wales basis and opportunities for everyone, from our youngest children and schoolchildren to the workforce, are to be increased.

Mae’r agenda sgiliau sylfaenol yn berthnasol i bob sector sy’n darparu addysg yng Nghymru. Yr oeddwn yn falch dros ben, er enghraifft, bod dros 72 y cant o rieni a arolygwyd yn dilyn yr ymgyrch hyrwyddo ‘darllenwch gyda mi’ y llynedd yn cytuno bod yr ymgyrch wedi gwneud iddynt sylweddoli pwysigrwydd darllen gyda’u plant a chymryd rhan mewn dysgu. Yn ddiweddar, cymerais ran mewn achlysur lansio rhaglen llythrennedd benodol i denantiaid cymdeithas dai, gan ddefnyddio gallu’r gymdeithas i gael deialog â’i holl denantiaid i’w hannog i ddarllen gyda’u plant. Mae rhan gan bawb i’w chwarae yn yr agenda hon—yr wyf yn falch iawn bod wyth corff cyhoeddus a noddir gan y Cynulliad a 240 o sefydliadau eraill wedi dangos diddordeb yn addewid y cyflogwyr—os ydym am fynd i’r afael â sgiliau sylfaenol drwy Gymru gyfan a chynyddu’r cyfleoedd i bawb, o’r plant ifancaf a phlant ysgol i’r gweithlu.

Helen Mary Jones spoken in English p. 20

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

I am sure that you agree that ELWa has a key role in delivering on your basic skills agenda, which we all support, and that its practices and credibility are key to that. When will you acknowledge that there are grave and justified concerns about ELWa’s capacity to deliver on this and all other key education and training objectives entrusted to it, which go beyond the financial management issues currently being addressed in the ongoing audit process? I appreciate the fact that you cannot comment on the financial problems, as you said earlier, but there is a wide range of concerns, including the relationship with providers and personnel practices. Do you agree that an independent inquiry should be established into ELWa’s current workings and examining the political decisions surrounding its establishment so that lessons can be learned and so that confidence in this important public body, which we all support and want to see working, can be restored? Will you acknowledge that public confidence is at an all time low?

Yr wyf yn siŵr y cytunwch â mi fod gan ELWa ran allweddol i’w chwarae yn eich agenda sgiliau sylfaenol, yr ydym oll yn ei chefnogi, a bod ei arferion a’i hygrededd yn allweddol i hynny. Pryd y byddwch yn cydnabod bod pryderon difrifol a chyfiawn ynglŷn â gallu ELWa i gyflawni hyn a’r holl amcanion allweddol addysg a hyfforddiant a ymddiriedwyd iddo, sy’n mynd y tu hwnt i’r materion rheoli ariannol yr ymdrinnir â hwy ar hyn o bryd yn y broses archwilio barhaus? Yr wyf yn gwerthfawrogi na allwch wneud sylwadau ar y problemau ariannol, fel y dywedasoch ynghynt, ond mae amrywiaeth eang o bryderon, gan gynnwys y berthynas rhyngddo a darparwyr ac arferion personél. A gytunwch y dylid cynnal ymchwiliad annibynnol i weithgareddau presennol ELWa ac i archwilio’r penderfyniadau gwleidyddol ynglŷn â’i sefydlu fel y gellid dysgu gwersi ac adfer hyder yn y corff cyhoeddus pwysig hwn, yr ydym oll yn ei gefnogi ac yr ydym am ei weld yn gweithio? A wnewch gydnabod na fu hyder y cyhoedd erioed mor isel?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 21

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

If you have concerns about operational matters at Education and Learning Wales, you need to refer to it, and I would be delighted if you were to copy me in your correspondence.

Os oes gennych bryderon ynglŷn â materion gweithredol Dysgu ac Addysgu Cymru, rhaid i chi eu cyfeirio ato, a byddwn yn falch pe baech yn darparu copi imi o’ch gohebiaeth.

I have kept the Education and Lifelong Learning Committee fully informed of developments. I made an oral statement to the Committee on 22 May about the procurement arrangements in the council, and the decision to review the procedures. I reported the outcome of the Peat review to the Committee on 26 June. I reported to the Committee again on 21 November. On that date, I reported the decision of the Auditor General on the report on the procurement procedures operated by the council, which formed part of his report on the council’s accounts. The Committee was supplied with the relevant documents. During the entire process, no Committee member, including Helen Mary, asked about this matter.

Hysbysais y Pwyllgor Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes yn llawn am y datblygiadau. Gwneuthum ddatganiad llafar i’r Pwyllgor ar 22 Mai ynglŷn â threfniadau caffael yn y cyngor a’r penderfyniad i adolygu’r gweithdrefnau. Rhoddais adroddiad ar ganlyniadau adolygiad Peat i’r pwyllgor ar 26 Mehefin. Rhoddais adroddiad eto i’r Pwyllgor ar 21 Tachwedd. Ar y dyddiad hwnnw, rhoddais adroddiad ar benderfyniad yr Archwilydd Cyffredinol ar yr adroddiad ar y gweithdrefnau caffael a weithredir gan y cyngor, a oedd yn rhan o’i adroddiad ar gyfrifon y cyngor. Rhoddwyd y dogfennau priodol i’r Pwyllgor. Yn ystod y broses, ni ofynnodd un aelod o’r Pwyllgor, gan gynnwys Helen Mary, ynglŷn â’r mater hwn.

Peter Rogers spoken in English p. 21

Peter Rogers siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

Many Members have spoken about the campaigns that will take place to improve basic skills. Are those campaigns merely PR stunts, or will we see genuine improvement?

Mae llawer o Aelodau wedi siarad am yr ymgyrchoedd a gaiff eu cynnal i wella sgiliau sylfaenol. Ai rhyw styntiau cysylltiadau cyhoeddus yw’r rhain, ynteu a welwn welliant gwirioneddol?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 21

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

PR stunts are something that you might engage in more than I do, Peter. I am interested in evidence-based policy. I am interested in ensuring that we have figures to show outcomes. One example is that the number of schools that have a primary quality mark as a result of our commitment to basic skills is 839, or 51 per cent of our primary schools. The secondary quality mark has been ordered by 56 schools, or 24 percent of our secondary schools. We are confident that we will hit our target by the end of 2004 of having all our schools achieve those marks. That is evidence-based policy—demonstrable figures and numbers—as is the number of those who have signed up to the basic skills employers pledge, which I mentioned earlier.

Efallai fod styntiau cysylltiadau cyhoeddus yn rhywbeth y byddwch chi, Peter, yn cymryd rhan ynddynt yn fwy na mi. Ymddiddoraf mewn polisïau sy’n seiliedig ar dystiolaeth. Ymddiddoraf mewn sicrhau bod gennym ffigurau i ddangos canlyniadau. Un enghraifft yw nifer yr ysgolion sydd â nod ansawdd cynradd o ganlyniad i’n hymrwymiad i sgiliau sylfaenol, sef 839, neu 51 y cant o’n hysgolion cynradd. Mae 56 o ysgolion wedi archebu’r nod ansawdd uwchradd, neu 24 y cant o’n hysgolion uwchradd. Yr ydym yn ffyddiog y cyrhaeddwn ein nod erbyn diwedd 2004, sef y bydd pob ysgol wedi cael y nodau ansawdd hynny. Dyna bolisi sy’n seiliedig ar dystiolaeth—ffigurau a rhifau pendant—yn ogystal â’r nifer sydd wedi arwyddo’r addewid sgiliau sylfaenol cyflogwyr, a grybwyllais ynghynt.

Ieuan Wyn Jones The Leader of the Opposition spoken in English p. 22

Ieuan Wyn Jones Arweinydd yr Wrthblaid siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

I have listened to your replies about Education and Learning Wales, but I have not detected any indication that you are prepared to take any ministerial responsibility for the problems that surround it. I am sure that you are aware of the contents of the Government’s accounting manual for 2000. It mentions the responsibility of Assembly sponsored public bodies, for which you are responsible, to follow the rules to the letter. Paragraph 9.3 states,

Gwrandewais ar eich atebion ynglŷn â Dysgu ac Addysgu Cymru, ond nid wyf wedi canfod unrhyw arwydd eich bod yn barod i gymryd unrhyw gyfrifoldeb gweinidogol am y problemau sy’n gysylltiedig ag ef. Yr wyf yn sicr eich bod yn ymwybodol o gynnwys llawlyfr cyfrifeg y Llywodraeth ar gyfer 2000. Mae’n crybwyll cyfrifoldeb cyrff cyhoeddus a noddir gan y Cynulliad, yr ydych chi yn gyfrifol amdanynt, i ddilyn y rheolau yn fanwl. Dywed paragraff 9.3,

‘Grants should not be issued to the recipient body in advance of need; and, often, agreement to making the grant will not be made until the body itself has accrued the expenditure, claimed reimbursement, or met any conditions set for the grant to be made.’

Ni ddylid rhoi grantiau i’r corff sydd i’w derbyn hyd y bod angen yr arian ar y corff hwnnw; ac, yn aml, ni chytunir i dalu’r grant hyd y bo’r corff ei hun wedi croni’r gwariant, wedi hawlio’r arian yn ôl, neu wedi bodloni unrhyw amodau a osodwyd er mwyn talu’r grant.

As far as the manual is concerned, the situation is clear. There have been allegations that ELWa paid out, without the needs for receipts or reimbursments, to a company called Avanti. Allegations have also been made that other companies were also paid in advance by ELWa, and that that money was reimbursed in a new financial year. Will you accept that those are serious allegations? Will you conduct an enquiry into those allegations?

O ran y llawlyfr, mae’r sefyllfa’n glir. Gwnaethpwyd honiadau bod ELWa wedi gwneud taliadau, heb ofyn am dderbynebau neu ad-daliadau, i gwmni o’r enw Avanti. Gwnaethpwyd honiadau hefyd bod cwmnïau eraill hefyd wedi cael eu talu ymlaen llaw gan ELWa, ac i’r arian hwnnw gael ei ad-dalu mewn blwyddyn ariannol newydd. A wnewch chi dderbyn bod y rheini yn honiadau difrifol? A wnewch chi gynnal ymchwiliad i’r honiadau hynny?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 22

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

I refer you to my earlier response. As an Assembly we have proper processes. The proper process in this instance is that issues that come out of the Audit Committee to the Assembly Government for consideration will be responded to in a specified timescale. I hope that the issues that are due to come out of the Audit Committee will reach us as soon as possible to enable me to respond. For you to continue to abuse procedures, when I am maintaining them, is inappropriate. I will fully respond to your points and to all Members, on behalf of the Government, when I have the opportunity to do so.

Fe’ch cyfeiriaf at fy ymateb blaenorol. Fel Cynulliad mae gennym brosesau priodol. Y broses briodol yn yr achos hwn yw yr ymatebir i faterion sy’n deillio o’r Pwyllgor Archwilio i Lywodraeth y Cynulliad o fewn amserlen benodol. Gobeithiaf y bydd y materion a fydd yn deillio o’r Pwyllgor Archwilio yn ein cyrraedd cyn gynted ag y bo modd fel y gallaf ymateb. Y mae’n amhriodol i chi barhau i gamddefnyddio gweithdrefnau, tra fy mod i yn eu parchu. Atebaf eich pwyntiau chi a phwyntiau pob Aelod yn drylwyr, ar ran y Llywodraeth, pan gaf gyfle i wneud hynny.

Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in English p. 22

Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

Please reflect on your suggestion that I am abusing procedure, Minister. I am carrying out my responsibilities as an Assembly Member by scrutinising a Government Minister.

A wnewch chi fyfyrio ar eich awgrym fy mod yn camddefnyddio gweithdrefnau Weinidog. Yr wyf yn gweithredu fy nghyfrifoldebau fel Aelod o’r Cynulliad drwy holi Gweinidog y Llywodraeth yn drylwyr.

The allegations concerning Avanti and the allegations made on last night’s television programme are not currently before the Audit Committee. They are new matters and I ask you as the Government Minister responsible for this Assembly sponsored public body to conduct an inquiry to verify the truth of these allegations. Will you do that?

Nid yw’r honiadau ynglŷn ag Avanti a’r honiadau a wnaethpwyd ar raglen deledu neithiwr gerbron y Pwyllgor Archwilio ar hyn o bryd. Maent yn faterion newydd ac yr wyf yn gofyn i chi fel Gweinidog y Llywodraeth sy’n gyfrifol am y corff cyhoeddus hwn a noddir gan y Cynulliad i gynnal ymchwiliad er mwyn cadarnhau’r gwirionedd ynglŷn â’r honiadau hyn. A wnewch chi hynny?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 23

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

I refer you to my earlier answer. Also, on your concerns about operational matters for ELWa, I would be delighted if you write to ELWa and send me a copy of that correspondence. I will be able to respond fully to all matters in due course.

Fe’ch cyfeiriaf at fy ateb blaenorol. Hefyd, ynglŷn â’ch pryderon ynglŷn â materion gweithredol ELWa, byddai’n dda gennyf pe baech yn ysgrifennnu at ELWa ac anfon copi o’r ohebiaeth honno ataf. Byddaf yn gallu ymateb yn llawn i’r holl faterion maes o law.

Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in English p. 23

Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

Point of order.

Pwynt o drefn.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 23

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

You can raise your point of order immediately after questions to the Minister.

Gallwch godi eich pwynt o drefn yn union wedi’r cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog.

Talu Ffioedd Dysgu Ymlaen Llaw

Up-front Tuition Fees

Q4 Peter Black spoken in English p. 23

C4 Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

How is the Minister progressing policies to abolish up-front tuition fees in Wales? (OAQ22426)

Sut mae’r Gweinidog yn bwrw ymlaen â’r polisïau yng Nghymru i ddileu ffioedd dysgu y mae’n rhaid eu talu ymlaen llaw? (OAQ22426)

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 23

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

Following the Secretary of State for Education and Skills’ statement on 22 January, my officials have begun detailed discussions with their counterparts in Whitehall.

Yn dilyn datganiad yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol dros Addysg a Sgiliau ar 22 Ionawr, dechreuodd fy swyddogion drafodaethau manwl gyda’r swyddogion yn Whitehall.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 23

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

There is a newspaper story today that the cost to Wales of not implementing up-front tuition fees could be as much as £80 million, payable by either the Welsh Assembly Government or the UK Government. Can you give an assurance that, no matter what option we pursue in Wales, we will not have to find that sort of money from our own resources? Also, what options are being explored with the UK Government on up-front tuition fees in Wales?

Mae stori yn y papur newydd heddiw yn nodi y gallai peidio â gweithredu ffioedd dysgu y mae’n rhaid eu talu ymlaen llaw gostio cymaint â £80 miliwn i Gymru, yn daladwy naill ai gan Lywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru neu gan Lywodraeth y DU. A allwch roi sicrwydd na fydd yn rhaid inni ddod o hyd i swm o’r fath o’n hadnoddau ein hunain, pa opsiwn bynnag a ddilynwn yng Nghymru? Hefyd, pa opsiynau sy’n cael eu hystyried gyda Llywodraeth y DU mewn perthynas â thalu ffioedd dysgu ymlaen llaw?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 24

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24

I have already said that I have asked for the relevant powers to be transferred to Wales with an assurance that the right budget also comes to Wales. We are currently involved in negotiations on those complex matters. In many ways, they have not been disaggregated on an England and Wales basis previously. We will therefore continue with those discussions. Once again, I give my pledge to the Assembly that I would not want the powers transferred to Wales without sufficient funding to enable us to carry out our responsibilities properly.

Crybwyllais eisoes fy mod wedi gofyn i’r pwerau perthnasol gael eu trosglwyddo i Gymru gyda sicrwydd y byddai gan Gymru y gyllideb briodol hefyd. Ar hyn o bryd, yr ydym yn cymryd rhan mewn negodiadau ar y materion cymhleth hynny. Mewn sawl ffordd, ni chawsant eu datgrynhoi ar sail Cymru a Lloegr yn flaenorol. Felly, byddwn yn parhau â’r trafodaethau hynny. Unwaith eto, rhoddaf fy ngair i’r Cynulliad na fyddwn am i’r pwerau gael eu trosglwyddo i Gymru heb ddigon o arian i’n galluogi i gyflawni ein cyfrifoldebau yn gywir.

Nick Bourne The Leader of the Welsh Conservatives spoken in English p. 24

Nick Bourne Arweinydd Ceidwadwyr Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24

To press you further on this matter, Minister, you do not seem to have taken a clear position on whether you want this to form part of the Assembly’s powers or not. Peter Hain was initially pushing for this, and Charles Clarke did not want this, and if it was not clear where the First Minster stood before, it is no clearer now. You said that you want the power, but in addition, you have seemingly qualified your remarks by saying that we must not be disadvantaged by this. Since England will be disadvantaged by this, are you saying—[Interruption.]

I bwyso arnoch chi ymhellach, Weinidog, ymddengys nad ydych wedi mynegi safbwynt clir ynghylch pa un a ydych am i hyn fod yn rhan o bwerau’r Cynulliad ai peidio. I ddechrau, pwysodd Peter Hain i gael hyn, ac nid oedd Charles Clarke yn fodlon â hyn, ac os nad oedd yn glir beth oedd safbwynt y Prif Weinidog o’r blaen, nid yw’n gliriach yn awr. Dywedasoch eich bod am gael y pŵer, ond yn ogystal, ymddengys eich bod wedi goleddfu eich sylwadau drwy ddweud bod yn rhaid inni sicrhau nad yw hyn yn peri inni fod o dan anfantais. Gan y bydd hyn yn peri i Loegr fod o dan anfantais, a ydych yn dweud—[Torri ar draws.]

I see that the First Minister, as is normally the case, finds this a laughing matter. However, it is a serious matter for Welsh parents, Welsh students and Welsh universities. Are you saying that you are determined to maintain a level playing field vis-à-vis England, or that we are in no worse a position than now, which are two completely different matters?

Gwelaf fod y Prif Weinidog, yn ôl yr arfer, yn ystyried hyn yn destun chwerthin. Fodd bynnag, mae’n fater difrifol i rieni yng Nghymru, myfyrwyr yng Nghymru a phrifysgolion yng Nghymru. A ydych yn dweud eich bod yn benderfynol o gadw’r sefyllfa yn gyfartal i’r un yn Lloegr, neu nad ydym mewn sefyllfa waeth nag yr ydym ar hyn o bryd, sy’n ddau fater hollol wahanol?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 24

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24

Since the advent of this Assembly Government, we have given the best ever settlement to our higher education institutions in Wales. There will be a 20 per cent increase between 2003-06. The NUS has acknowledged that we have the best mechanism in any part of the UK for student support, and we want to maintain that. If we want to maintain both the support for our institutions and our students, we must also be absolutely sure that we have enough money to do so. That is why the answer to your question is the same as to the previous question. As we consider the powers being transferred, we must ensure that the money will follow.

Ers dyfodiad Llywodraeth y Cynulliad, yr ydym wedi rhoi’r setliad gorau erioed i’n sefydliadau addysg uwch yng Nghymru. Bydd cynnydd o 20 y cant rhwng 2003-06. Cydnabu Undeb Cenedlaethol y Myfyrwyr (UCM) fod gennym y mecanwaith gorau yn unrhyw ran o’r DU ar gyfer cymorth i fyfyrwyr, ac yr ydym am barhau â hynny. Os ydym am barhau i roi’r cymorth i’n sefydliadau a’n myfyrwyr, rhaid inni fod yn gwbl sicr bod gennym ddigon o arian i wneud hynny. Dyna pam mae’r ateb i’ch cwestiwn yr un fath â’r ateb i’r cwestiwn blaenorol. Wrth inni ystyried trosglwyddo’r pwerau, rhaid inni sicrhau y bydd yr arian yn dilyn.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 25

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 25

Cyfeiriasoch at y trafodaethau cymhleth a manwl rhyngoch ac adran Charles Clarke yn San Steffan. Ni ŵyr neb yn y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol am y trafodaethau hynny. Mae sôn yn y papur heddiw, fel y soniodd Peter Black, am ddiffyg o £80 miliwn yn y gyllideb. Pryd ydych yn bwriadu trafod y materion hyn gyda’r Pwyllgor a phryd ydych yn meddwl ceisio barn arall yn y trafodaethau hyn heblaw eich barn chi?

You referred to the complex and detailed discussions between you and Charles Clarke’s department at Westminster. No-one in the National Assembly is aware of those discussions. There is a newspaper report today, as Peter Black noted, of a £80 million shortfall in the budget. When do you intend to discuss these matters with the Committee and when will you seek another opinion besides your own on these discussions?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 25

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25

We have already made arrangements for the Junior Secretary of State at the Wales Office to come to Committee on 13 March. We will be able to have a full discussion in the Committee then. The Committee clerk, with the support of the Chair and myself, has already ensured that time has been made available for that.

Gwnaethpwyd trefniadau gennym eisoes i’r Is-ysgrifennydd Gwladol yn Swyddfa Cymru ddod i’r Pwyllgor ar 13 Mawrth. Gallwn gael trafodaeth lawn yn y Pwyllgor bryd hynny. Mae clerc y Pwyllgor, gyda chymorth y Cadeirydd a’m cymorth i, eisoes wedi sicrhau bod amser wedi’i glustnodi ar gyfer hynny.

Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in English p. 25

Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25

Point of order. In her reply to my question, the Minister suggested that I had abused Assembly procedure in pursuing certain matters. I regard that as a serious allegation on which I seek your guidance.

Pwynt o drefn. Yn ei hateb i’m cwestiwn, awgrymodd y Gweinidog fy mod wedi camddefnyddio gweithdrefnau’r Cynulliad wrth drafod materion penodol ymhellach. Ystyriaf hynny yn honiad difrifol yr wyf yn ceisio eich arweiniad arno.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 25

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25

I heard the allegation of abuse of procedure. No abuse of the Assembly’s procedures, for which I am responsible, could have taken place. If it had, I would have intervened as it is my responsibility to ensure that that does not happen.

Clywais yr honiad o gamddefnyddio gweithdrefn. Ni allai unrhyw gamddefnydd o weithdrefnau’r Cynulliad, yr wyf yn gyfrifol amdanynt, fod wedi digwydd. Pe bai wedi digwydd, byddwn wedi ymyrryd gan mai fy nghyfrifioldeb i yw sicrhau nad yw hynny’n digwydd.

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 25

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25

Point of order. I raise this point of order under Standing Order No. 6.3, relating to Ministers answering questions on their field of accountability. It is difficult to believe that Ministers are accountable for matters undertaken by ASPBs on their behalf and on behalf of the National Assembly when they are quick to trumpet the successes of Assembly sponsored public bodies in this Chamber but are equally quick to deny any responsibility for any failings. Will you rule under Standing Order No. 6.3 whether the Minister was right to avoid the questions to her on ELWa or not?

Pwynt o drefn. Codaf y pwynt o drefn hwn o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.3, yn ymwneud â Gweinidogion yn ateb cwestiynau ar eu maes o atebolrwydd. Mae’n anodd credu bod Gweinidogion yn atebol am faterion yr ymgymerwyd â hwy gan CCNC ar eu rhan ac ar ran y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol pan fyddant yn barod iawn i glodfori llwyddiannau’r cyrff cyhoeddus a noddir gan y Cynulliad yn y Siambr hon ond yr un mor barod i wadu unrhyw gyfrifoldeb am fethiannau. A wnewch chi ddyfarnu o dan Reol Sefydlog 6.3 pa un a oedd y Gweinidog yn gywir i osgoi’r cwestiynau a ofynnwyd iddi ar ELWa ai peidio?

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 26

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 26

Ministers are, of course, responsible for the content of their own answers.

Wrth gwrs, mae Gweinidogion yn gyfrifol am gynnwys eu hatebion eu hunain.

Helen Mary Jones spoken in English p. 26

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 26

Point of order. I fear that the Minister may have inadvertently misled the Assembly in her reply to me in Committee on the way in which this matter is dealt with. We do not have a verbatim record, but I clearly remember persistently raising concerns about ELWa. However, on the particular issue of the financial matters, we were advised that we could not question the Minister on her statement in Committee as those matters were, at that point, commercially confidential. The Minister may wish to reconsider the exact nature of what she said because those issues have been raised in advance.

Pwynt o drefn. Ofnaf fod y Gweinidog, o bosibl, wedi camarwain y Cynulliad yn anfwriadol yn ei hateb imi yn y Pwyllgor ar y ffordd yr ymdrinnir â’r mater hwn. Nid oes gennym gofnod air am air, ond cofiaf yn dda imi godi pryderon yn gyson ynghylch ELWa. Fodd bynnag, ar y mater penodol yn ymwneud â’r materion ariannol, fe’n cynghorwyd na allem holi’r Gweinidog ar ei datganiad yn y Pwyllgor gan fod y materion hynny, ar y pryd, yn fasnachol gyfrinachol. Efallai y bydd y Gweinidog am ailystyried union natur yr hyn a ddywedodd, gan fod y materion hynny wedi’u codi ymlaen llaw.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 26

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 26

I cannot comment directly on what is said in Committee. I am responsible for Plenary procedure according to Standing Orders. However, I will consult with the relevant Chair and clerk on any issues that may relate to what has transpired in Plenary.

Ni allaf wneud sylwadau yn uniongyrchol ar yr hyn a ddywedir mewn Pwyllgorau. Yr wyf yn gyfrifol am weithdrefn y Cyfarfod Llawn yn unol â’r Rheolau Sefydlog. Fodd bynnag, byddaf yn ymgynghori â’r Cadeirydd a’r clerc perthnasol ar unrhyw faterion a allai fod yn gysylltiedig â’r hyn sydd wedi digwydd yn y Cyfarfod Llawn.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 26

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 26

Further to that point of order.

Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwnnw.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 26

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 26

Order. I cannot allow this to drag on as we have an urgent question to deal with.

Trefn. Ni allaf ganiatáu i hyn rygnu ymlaen gan fod gennym gwestiwn brys i ymdrin ag ef.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 26

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 26

I am grateful, Llywydd. I appreciate that Ministers are responsible for their answers, as is clearly the case. However, we need to establish that questions on Assembly sponsored public bodies are appropriate for the relevant Minister. It seems that the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning claimed that the organisational issues had nothing to do with her. That is patently not the case. The Audit Committee is not looking at organisational issues that were being put to this Minister. With your indulgence, I wish to press the Business Minister on this matter.

Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar, Lywydd. Gwerthfawrogaf fod Gweinidogion yn gyfrifol am eu hatebion, fel sy’n amlwg yn wir. Fodd bynnag, mae angen inni gadarnhau bod cwestiynau ar gyrff cyhoeddus a noddir gan y Cynulliad yn briodol ar gyfer y Gweinidog perthnasol. Ymddengys fod y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes wedi honni nad oedd a wnelo’r materion trefniadol ddim â hi. Yn amlwg, nid yw hyn yn wir. Nid yw’r Pwyllgor Archwilio yn ystyried y materion trefniadol yr oedd Aelodau yn holi’r Gweinidog yn eu cylch. Gyda’ch maddeuant chi, dymunaf bwyso ar y Trefnydd i ymdrin â’r mater hwn.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 27

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 27

My indulgence is running out.

Mae fy maddeuant yn mynd yn brin.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 27

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 27

Then I shall be brief. This is a serious issue, which we saw aired last night on television. We are unable to name officials—quite rightly—but it is important that this matter is debated in the Assembly. There are grave concerns about financial probity and issues of negligence relating to ELWa. Will the Business Minister give an undertaking that this issue will be brought forward so that we can debate it as soon as we return from recess? It is important that we can air this issue in the Assembly. I appreciate that the Minister does not want to, but 59 other Members do.

Yna byddaf yn gryno. Mae’r mater hwn yn fater difrifol, y darlledwyd rhaglen deledu arno neithiwr. Ni allwn enwi swyddogion—yn hollol deg—ond mae’n bwysig bod y mater hwn yn cael ei drafod yn y Cynulliad. Mae pryderon mawr ynghylch gonestrwydd ariannol a materion o esgeuluster yn ymwneud ag ELWa. A fydd y Trefnydd yn addo trefnu i’r mater hwn gael ei drafod yn gynt er mwyn inni allu ei drafod cyn gynted ag y dychwelwn o’r toriad? Mae’n bwysig inni allu drafod y mater hwn yn y Cynulliad. Gwerthfawrogaf nad yw’r Gweinidog am wneud hynny, ond mae’r 59 o Aelodau eraill am wneud hynny.

Carwyn Jones The Business Minister spoken in English p. 27

Carwyn Jones Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 27

I am saddened that the policy cupboards of Plaid Cymru and the Conservatives are so bare that they have to bring matters before the Assembly based on what they watched on television the previous night. That is where we are on this matter. The Minister has made it clear that this matter is before the Audit Committee, which has to produce the report. Procedures must be followed and the Minister must abide by those procedures. To indicate otherwise suggests a lack of confidence in the Audit Committee and its Chair. Members in other parties do not understand the procedures that must be followed, but that is not a worry for the people of Wales as those Members will never be in Government.

Yr wyf yn drist bod Plaid Cymru a’r Ceidwadwyr mor brin o bolisïau fel bod rhaid iddynt gyflwyno materion gerbron y Cynulliad yn seiliedig ar yr hyn a wyliwyd ar y teledu y noson cynt. Dyna lle yr ydym ar y mater hwn. Eglurodd y Gweinidog fod y mater hwn wedi’i gyflwyno gerbron y Pwyllgor Archwilio, y mae’n rhaid iddo gynhyrchu’r adroddiad. Rhaid dilyn gweithdrefnau a rhaid i’r Gweinidog gadw at y gweithdrefnau hynny. Mae nodi fel arall yn awgrymu diffyg hyder yn y Pwyllgor Archwilio a’i Gadeirydd. Nid yw Aelodau pleidiau eraill yn deall y gweithdrefnau y mae’n rhaid eu dilyn, ond nid yw hynny’n destun pryder i bobl Cymru am na fydd yr Aelodau hynny byth yn rhan o’r Llywodraeth

Cwestiwn Brys

Urgent Question

Colli Swyddi yn KTH, Llanidloes

Job Losses at KTH, Llanidloes

Mick Bates spoken in English p. 27

Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 27

Will the Minister for Economic Development make a statement on the announcement of job losses at KTH Wales Ltd in Llanidloes? (EAQ22623)

A wnaiff y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd ddatganiad ar y cyhoeddiad am golli swyddi yn KTH Wales Cyf yn Llanidloes? (EAQ22623)

Andrew Davies The Minister for Economic Development spoken in English p. 27

Andrew Davies Y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 27

The announcement of KTH Wales Ltd’s closure at Llanidloes is a tragedy for the workforce and for the wider local community. It was a considerable shock to us and the Welsh Development Agency as we were quite recently discussing refurbishment work on the site with the company. The decision to close is all the more difficult to bear because of the tremendous amount of work undertaken by the WDA and the Assembly Government when closure threatened in 2001. Then, the Assembly Government and the WDA jointly intervened and worked with the company on a rescue package that involved considering several development options in Llanidloes. Over the intervening period, the agency and KTH have worked closely together on the development plan. Consequently, the company won fresh orders that enabled it to increase its workforce from a low of about 120 up to the current level of 250.

Mae’r cyhoeddiad am gau KTH Wales Cyf yn Llanidloes yn drychinebus i’r gweithlu a’r gymuned leol ehangach. Yr oedd yn ergyd sylweddol inni ac Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru oherwydd yr oeddem yn trafod gwaith adnewyddu ar y safle gyda’r cwmni yn weddol ddiweddar. Mae’r penderfyniad i gau yn anos fyth i ddygymod ag ef oherwydd y gwaith aruthrol a wnaed gan y WDA a Llywodraeth y Cynulliad pan oedd y cwmni yn wynebu bygythiad y byddai’n rhaid iddo gau yn 2001. Yna, ymyrrodd Llywodraeth y Cynulliad a’r WDA ar y cyd gan weithio gyda’r cwmni ar becyn achub a oedd yn cynnwys ystyried sawl opsiwn datblygu yn Llanidloes. Ers hynny, bu’r awdurdod a KTH yn cydweithio’n agos ar y cynllun datblygu. O ganlyniad, enillodd y cwmni archebion newydd a’i galluogodd i gynyddu ei weithlu o gyn lleied â 120 hyd at y lefel gyfredol o 250.

Despite the company increasing its workforce, it appears, ultimately, that the trading conditions and the loss of a significant order meant that the company has decided to finally call it a day. Team Wales, including the Llanidloes taskforce—in which I know you have a lead role, Mick—is already working on plans to help the individuals concerned to deal with this blow, and is urgently exploring the options for business development in the town, with the aim of creating opportunities for sustainable jobs. I assure you that the Assembly Government remains committed to investing in the new access road to the town, which is needed more now, if that were possible, than ever before. It could well be the key to opening up a part of the town for redevelopment, including the modernisation of the current Gorn road site.

Er i’r cwmni gynyddu ei weithlu, ymddengys, yn y pendraw, fod yr amodau masnachu a cholli archeb sylweddol wedi golygu bod y cwmni wedi penderfynu rhoi’r ffidil yn y to. Mae Tîm Cymru, gan gynnwys tasglu Llanidloes—yr ydych yn chwarae rhan arweiniol ynddo, Mick—eisoes yn gweithio ar gynlluniau i helpu’r unigolion dan sylw i ddelio â’r ergyd hon, ac mae wrthi’n archwilio’r opsiynau ar gyfer datblygu busnes yn y dref ar fyrder, gyda’r nod o greu cyfleoedd ar gyfer swyddi cynaliadwy. Yr wyf yn eich sicrhau bod Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn parhau’n ymrwymedig i fuddsoddi yn y ffordd fynediad newydd i’r dref, y mae ei hangen mwy nag erioed, pe bai hynny’n bosibl. Gallai hyn fod yn allweddol i agor rhan o’r dref i’w hailddatblygu, gan gynnwys moderneiddio safle presennol ffordd Gorn.

Mick Bates spoken in English p. 28

Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 28

Thank you for your response, Minister. The horror of job losses arose again yesterday because a similar announcement was made two years ago. That made the impact this time all the worse because of the company’s apparent security. As you rightly say, the work of the Assembly and the WDA, along with the Llanidloes task group, the management of KTH, and the union—the Amalgamated Engineering and Electrical Union—was largely responsible for the company’s survival until now.

Diolch am eich ymateb, Weinidog. Cododd y dychryn sy’n gysylltiedig â cholli swyddi eto ddoe gan fod cyhoeddiad tebyg wedi’i wneud dwy flynedd yn ôl. Yn sgîl hynny, yr oedd yr effaith y tro hwn yn waeth byth oherwydd bod y cwmni yn ymddangos yn ddiogel. Fel y dywedasoch, yr oedd gwaith y Cynulliad a’r WDA, ynghyd â grŵp gorchwyl Llanidloes, tîm rheoli KTH, a’r undeb—Undeb Arunedig y Peirianwyr a’r Trydanwyr—yn gyfrifol, i raddau helaeth, am oroesiad y cwmni hyd yma.

In view of this strength of community commitment in Llanidloes, will you lend your support to the task group in any forthcoming survival plans by visiting the town and the task group? The impact on a small, rural town is immense, as so many lives are effected. An equivalent impact in Cardiff, for example, would be the loss of 25,000 jobs. Do you accept the special needs of rural Wales, and that extra investment is needed in rural towns such as Llanidloes?

Gan ystyried cryfder yr ymrwymiad cymunedol hwn yn Llanidloes, a fyddwch yn cefnogi’r grŵp gorchwyl mewn unrhyw gynlluniau goroesi sydd i ddod drwy ymweld â’r dref a’r tasglu? Mae’r effaith ar dref fach a gwledig yn aruthrol, gan fod hyn yn effeithio ar gynifer o fywydau. Byddai effaith gyfwerth yng Nghaerdydd, er enghraifft, yn golygu colli 25,000 o swyddi. A ydych yn derbyn anghenion arbennig Cymru wledig, a bod angen buddsoddi ychwanegol mewn trefi gwledig fel Llanidloes?

Finally, as you said, the decision came out of the blue, and appears to be caused by the loss of a contract from Powertrain, which may or may not have gone to Poland. If the company is to be saved in whatever form—because yesterday’s announcement stated that this decision was not set in stone—will you use your good offices to ensure that all plant and machinery remains on site so that, for any business that emerges from this, its chance of survival will not be jeopardised by the loss of plant? The area is looking for a strong commitment from the Assembly, and I await your encouraging reply.

Yn olaf, fel y dywedasoch, daeth y penderfyniad yn ddirybudd, ac ymddengys mai colli contract gan Powertrain, a allai fod wedi mynd i Wlad Pwyl neu rywle arall, oedd yn gyfrifol am hyn. Er mwyn achub y cwmni ym mha fodd bynnag—oherwydd nododd cyhoeddiad ddoe nad oedd y penderfyniad hwn yn derfynol—a fyddwch yn fodlon cymodi i sicrhau bod yr holl gyfarpar a pheiriannau yn aros ar y safle er mwyn sicrhau na fydd cyfle unrhyw fusnes newydd yn cael ei beryglu gan golli cyfarpar? Mae’r ardal yn disgwyl ymrwymiad cryf gan y Cynulliad, a disgwyliaf eich ateb calonogol.

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 29

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 29

As I discussed with you yesterday, I will visit Llanidloes—I will inform you and others of the date—to talk with the workforce management and all the Team Wales agencies about what further help we can provide to the existing company and, if necessary, for retraining those who may be made redundant. I give you my commitment that I support the task group, and we started those discussions yesterday. As you said, it is still not clear where the order has gone, whether it is to Poland or, it seems, to another part of eastern Europe. On the removal of assets, I cannot give a guarantee that that will not happen, as that is a matter for the company. However, I have asked the WDA and my officials to quickly explore with the company what its intentions are and, once again, to make all our resources available. If it is possible to help the company like we did two years ago, we will do so. If it is not, then, as I did with south Ceredigion—the Cardigan area—and north Pembrokeshire, I will work with the local communities and local authorities, and all the partners in Team Wales, to consider what we can do to respond to this major job redundancy.

Fel y trafodais â chi ddoe, byddaf yn ymweld â Llanidloes—byddaf yn eich hysbysu chi a phobl eraill am y dyddiad—i siarad â rheolwyr y gweithlu a holl asiantaethau Tîm Cymru am ba gymorth pellach y gallwn ei roi i’r cwmni presennol ac, os bydd angen, ar gyfer ailhyfforddi’r rhai a allai gael eu diswyddo. Rhoddaf fy ngair ichi fy mod yn cefnogi’r grŵp gorchwyl, a dechreuwyd y trafodaethau hynny ddoe. Fel y dywedasoch, nid yw’n hysbys o hyd i ble mae’r archeb wedi mynd, pa un ai Gwlad Pwyl sydd wedi’i chael, neu, fel yr ymddengys, rhan arall o ddwyrain Ewrop. O ran symud yr asedau, ni allaf warantu na fydd hynny’n digwydd, gan mai mater i’r cwmni yw hynny. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf wedi gofyn i’r WDA a’m swyddogion holi’r cwmni ynglŷn â’i fwriad ac, unwaith eto, sicrhau bod ein hadnoddau i gyd ar gael. Os yw’n bosibl helpu’r cwmni yn yr un modd ag y gwnaethom ddwy flynedd yn ôl, gwnawn hynny. Os na, yna fel y gwneuthum gyda De Ceredigion—ardal Aberteifi—a gogledd Sir Benfro, byddaf yn gweithio gyda’r cymunedau lleol a’r awdurdodau lleol, a’r holl bartneriaid yn Nhîm Cymru, er mwyn ystyried yr hyn y gallwn ei wneud i ymateb i’r golled fawr hon o ran swyddi.

Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 30

Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 30

Atgoffaf y Gweinidog o’r sefyllfa ddwy flynedd yn ôl. Dyfynnaf eiriau John Flintham, rheolwr-gyfarwyddwr KTH ar y pryd:

I remind the Minister of the situation two years ago. I will quote John Flintham, the managing director of KTH at the time:

Ein bwriad yw datblygu cyfleustra o safon byd gyda dyfodol tymor hir…yr wyf yn hyderus y bydd gennym gyfleustra a gweithlu a all gystadlu yn y farchnad foduron. Dylai hynny alluogi helaethu’r safle dros y blynyddoedd nesaf.

‘It is our intention to develop a world class facility with a long-term future…I am confident that we will have a facility and workforce that can compete in the automotive market. This should allow for future expansion of the site in the coming years.’

Dywedodd hynny yn sgîl derbyn tua £1 miliwn o gyllid gan Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru. Ar ba sail y rhoddwyd y cymorth ariannol hwnnw, a beth oedd natur y cymorth? A allwch roi mwy o fanylion inni amdano? A oedd amodau ynghlwm wrth y cymorth hwnnw? Pa astudiaeth o ragolygon tymor hir, canolig a byr y cwmni a wnaethpwyd o ran proffidioldeb dichonol? A sylweddolwyd bod perygl na fyddai’r cwmni yn gallu cystadlu â gwledydd oedd â chostau cyflogi is? Cyfeiriodd y Gweinidog at y newid mewn amodau masnachu. Pa newidiau sydd wedi digwydd i’r rheini dros y ddwy flynedd diwethaf? Mae’r hyn a ddywedwyd eisoes ynglŷn ag archeb yn mynd i Wlad Pwyl yn dangos bod perygl i waith fynd i wledydd sy’n talu cyflogau is. Buaswn wedi disgwyl y byddai hynny wedi ei ragweld ddwy flynedd yn ôl. A oes trefniadau yn eu lle ar gyfer adfachu’r cyllid a fenthyciwyd i’r cwmni prin ddwy flynedd yn ôl?

He said that after receiving funding of about £1 million from the Welsh Development Agency. On what basis was that financial assistance given and what was the nature of that assistance? Can you give us more details about it? Were any conditions attached to that financial assistance? What study was carried out on the company’s long, mid and short-term prospects in relation to potential profitability? Was the risk of the company failing to compete with countries with lower employment costs identified? The Minister referred to the change in trading conditions. What changes have occurred in those over the past two years? What Members have already said about an order going to Poland shows that there is a risk of work going to countries where wages are lower. I would have expected that to have been foreseen two years ago. Are any arrangements in place to clawback the funding that was loaned to the company only two years ago?

Beth yw’r rhagolygon yn awr? Pa gymorth all y Cynulliad ei gynnig, ac a oes posibilrwydd i’r gweithwyr neu’r rheolwyr brynu’r cwmni, fel y digwyddodd gydag Elizabeth the Chef yn Aberystwyth? Hoffwn gael manylion am ba gynlluniau eraill—mae’r Gweinidog wedi sôn rhywfaint amdanynt yn barod—sydd ar y gweill ar gyfer pen uchaf dyffryn Hafren o ran denu diwydiant a chryfhau busnesau lleol eraill. Efallai ei bod yn bryd ystyried dynesiad amgen i ddatblygu ardaloedd fel hon. Nid yw’n ardal Amcan 1, nac yn ardal gynorthwyedig; mae angen pecyn arbennig arni. A yw’r Gweinidog yn cydnabod bod hon yn enghraifft arall o’r angen i symud pwyslais datblygu tua’r Gorllewin—

What are the prospects now? What assistance can the Assembly offer, and is there any possibility of the workers or managers buying the company out, as happened with Elizabeth the Chef in Aberystwyth? I would like to receive details about other schemes—the Minister has mentioned a few already—that are planned for the upper end of the Severn valley in terms of attracting industry and strengthening other local businesses. Perhaps it is time to consider an alternative approach to the development of such areas. This is not an Objective 1 area, neither is it an assisted area; it requires a special package. Does the Minister acknowledge that this is another example of the need to shift the emphasis of development towards west Wales—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 31

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 31

Trefn. Cwestiwn brys yw hwn, nid datganiad.

Order. This is an urgent question, not a statement.

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 31

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 31

The development took place two years ago before I was given the economic development portfolio, and I was not party to those negotiations. If it is possible to put those figures in the public domain, I will write to you. I do not know whether there was a commercial confidentiality clause between the WDA and the company, but I will check that. If it is possible to provide you with information on that, I will do so.

Digwyddodd y datblygiad ddwy flynedd yn ôl cyn imi gael y portffolio datblygu economaidd, ac nid oeddwn yn rhan o’r negodiadau hynny. Os yw’n bosibl cyhoeddi’r ffigurau hynny, ysgrifennaf atoch. Ni wn a oedd cymal cyfrinachedd masnachol rhwng y WDA a’r cwmni, ond cadarnhaf hynny. Os yw’n bosibl rhoi gwybodaeth ichi am hynny, gwnaf hynny.

In terms of difficult trading conditions, I do not know whether the company’s difficulties were entirely internal, or whether there were contributing external factors. At this stage, we are still trying to find out from the company what the precipitating factors were in terms of this decision. The company had grown rapidly: it had doubled its workforce in a short space of time. I do not know whether that had any impact on this decision. The WDA and my officials will discuss that with the company, and we will do what we can to help the situation.

O ran amodau masnachu anodd, ni wn a oedd anawsterau’r cwmni yn fewnol yn gyfan gwbl, neu a oedd rhai ffactorau allanol cyfrannol. Ar hyn o bryd, yr ydym yn dal i geisio cael gwybodaeth gan y cwmni am y ffactorau a ysgogodd y penderfyniad hwn. Yr oedd y cwmni wedi tyfu’n gyflym: yr oedd wedi dyblu ei weithlu mewn cyfnod byr. Ni wn a gafodd hynny unrhyw effaith ar y penderfyniad hwn. Bydd y WDA a’m swyddogion yn trafod hynny gyda’r cwmni, a gwnawn bopeth o fewn ein gallu i helpu’r sefyllfa.

Delyth Evans spoken in English p. 31

Delyth Evans siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 31

I welcome your commitment, Minister, to do everything that you can to support the workforce at this time. It is worth highlighting the extent to which the workforce has worked tooth and nail to secure the company’s position. It has worked around the clock for months to meet orders, and workers have taken pay cuts ever since the company started to face problems two years ago. You will know that the firms that KTH supply have consistently praised the exceptional quality of its work.

Croesawaf eich ymrwymiad, Weinidog, i wneud popeth o fewn eich gallu i roi cymorth i’r gweithlu ar yr adeg hon. Mae’n werth nodi i ba raddau y mae’r gweithlu wedi gweithio corff ac enaid er mwyn diogelu safle’r cwmni. Mae wedi gweithio bob awr o’r dydd am fisoedd i gyflawni archebion, ac mae gweithwyr wedi derbyn cyflogau is ers i’r cwmni ddechrau wynebu problemau ddwy flynedd yn ôl. Byddwch yn ymwybodol bod y cwmnïau y mae KTH yn eu cyflenwi bob amser wedi canmol ansawdd eithriadol ei waith.

It is not possible to overstate the impact of the closure on the town. One resident of Llanidloes described the factory to me this morning as the foundation of the town: that is not an overstatement. The industry’s history goes back way beyond the current owners, as you well know, Minister. It is this long history that has enabled the town to develop such a high level of skills and expertise over many years. The 250 workers and their families deserve every support the Assembly can give them.

Nid yw’n bosibl gorddweud effaith cau’r cwmni ar y dref. Y bore yma, disgrifiodd un o drigolion y dref y ffatri imi fel sylfaen y dref: nid yw hynny’n orddweud. Mae hanes y diwydiant yn mynd yn ôl ymhell cyn y perchnogion presennol, fel y gwyddoch, Weinidog. Y traddodiad hir hwn sydd wedi galluogi’r dref i ddatblygu sgiliau ac arbenigedd mor dda dros lawer o flynyddoedd. Mae’r 250 o weithwyr a’u teuluoedd yn haeddu cymaint o gymorth â phosibl gan y Cynulliad.

As part of the rescue package that the Assembly put in place two years ago, a commitment was made to provide new roads infrastructure. Can you reassure me that that commitment remains? Is there a prospect of being able to use that infrastructure to attract new industry to replace that which may be leaving?

Fel rhan o’r pecyn achub a roddwyd ar waith gan y Cynulliad ddwy flynedd yn ôl, ymrwymwyd i ddarparu seilwaith ffyrdd newydd. A allwch fy sicrhau bod yr ymrwymiad hwn yn parhau? A oes gobaith y gellir defnyddio’r seilwaith newydd hwnnw i ddenu diwydiant newydd i gymryd lle’r diwydiant hwnnw a allai fod yn gadael yr ardal?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 32

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 32

I echo everything that you said about the impact on the town, and the quality of the workforce. The quality workforce will be a major attraction for any new employer—whether from within the area or outside it—if it is not possible to save the KTH factory. I confirm, once again, that the road development will go ahead, irrespective of this decision. We will do all that we can to help the company, the workforce and the Amicus union.

Ategaf bopeth a ddywedasoch am yr effaith ar y dref, ac ansawdd y gweithlu. Bydd y gweithlu o safon yn atyniad mawr i unrhyw gyflogwr newydd—pa un a ddaw o’r ardal ei hun neu o’r tu allan iddi—os nad yw’n bosibl achub ffatri KTH. Cadarnhaf, unwaith eto, y bydd y gwaith o ddatblygu’r ffyrdd yn mynd yn ei flaen, waeth beth fo’r penderfyniad hwn. Gwnawn bopeth o fewn ein gallu i helpu’r cwmni, y gweithlu ac undeb Amicus.

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 32

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 32

This is a massive blow to the mid Wales economy. I have known this company for about 20 years and I still think of it as BSK, its former guise. Is it not ironic that my first negotiation with this company was to try to persuade the then Welsh Office to install an access road from the by-pass that was about to be built? That is the same road development that we are now considering undertaking, but at much greater expense.

Mae hon yn ergyd enfawr i economi canolbarth Cymru. Bûm yn gyfarwydd â’r cwmni hwn am tua 20 mlynedd ac yr wyf yn dal i’w alw yn BSK, ei hen enw. Onid yw’n eironig mai’r tro cyntaf imi negodi â’r cwmni hwn oedd i argyhoeddi’r Swyddfa Gymreig bryd hynny i roi ffordd fynediad o’r ffordd osgoi a oedd ar fin cael ei hadeiladu? Dyna’r un gwaith datblygu ffyrdd yr ydym yn ystyried ymgymryd ag ef ar hyn o bryd, ond am gost uwch o lawer.

This is the foundation of the upper Severn valley’s economy. It seems a little odd to me that this company was talking about recruiting a fortnight ago. You mentioned the possibility that the loss of an order could have led to this, but I have heard rumours for some time about the possibility of work being transferred to Poland. What testing discussions have you had with the company to find out what is behind this move? We cannot write off the fact that you may well be able to persuade some part of the operation to remain, but you must also think about the future—and you have touched on that.

Dyma sylfaen economi dyffryn Hafren uchaf. Ymddengys y ffaith bod y cwmni hwn yn sôn am recriwtio bythefnos yn ôl ychydig yn rhyfedd i mi. Crybwyllwyd y posibilrwydd y gallai colli archeb fod wedi arwain at hyn, ond yr wyf wedi clywed sibrydion ers amser ynghylch y posibilrwydd o drosglwyddo gwaith i Wlad Pwyl. Pa drafodaethau manwl-gywir ydych wedi’u cael â’r cwmni i ganfod y rheswm dros y cyhoeddiad hwn? Ni allwn ddiystyru’r ffaith ei bod yn ddigon posibl y gallwch ddarbwyllo rhan o’r cwmni i aros, ond rhaid ichi ystyried y dyfodol hefyd—ac yr ydych wedi cyfeirio at hynny.

Will you take this matter as seriously as you took the closure of Corus, because its impact on the upper Severn valley will be similar in scale? In the case of Corus, a £60 million investment package was put together within a matter of days. Cardiganshire waited a year before you announced your plans. Will you give a commitment that you will respond to this in a matter of days, as you did to the job losses at Corus? Can you give us the timescale for the new access road to the Gorn development so that the town will have some prospect of the site being redeveloped if this company does go?

A fyddwch yn cymryd y mater hwn o ddifrif i’r un graddau â’r mater o gau Corus, oherwydd bydd ei effaith ar ddyffryn Hafren uchaf ar raddfa debyg? Yn achos Corus, rhoddwyd pecyn buddsoddi o £60 miliwn at ei gilydd o fewn ychydig ddyddiau. Bu’n rhaid i Sir Gaerfyrddin aros am flwyddyn cyn ichi gyhoeddi eich cynlluniau. A fyddwch yn addo y byddwch yn ymateb i hyn ymhen ychydig ddyddiau, fel y gwnaethoch gyda’r swyddi a gollwyd yn Corus? A allwch roi’r terfyn amser inni ar gyfer y ffordd fynediad newydd i ddatblygiad Gorn er mwyn i’r dref gael rhywfaint o obaith y caiff y safle ei ailddatblygu os bydd y cwmni hwn yn mynd?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 33

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 33

At this stage, why the company has made this decision is still a matter of speculation. The WDA and I will want to discuss with the company whether it was external or internal factors or a combination of both. The decision was only made yesterday; it is early days and I do not want to add to the speculation.

Ar hyn o bryd, mae’r rheswm pam y gwnaeth y cwmni y penderfyniad hwn yn parhau’n destun cryn ddyfalu. Bydd y WDA a minnau am drafod â’r cwmni pa un ai ffactorau allanol ynteu rai mewnol oedd y rheswm, neu gyfuniad o’r ddau. Dim ond ddoe y gwnaethpwyd y penderfyniad; mae’n gynnar o hyd ac nid wyf am ychwanegu at y dyfalu.

Our major concern is for those who have been made redundant. On a point of fact, I certainly did not take a year to respond to the closure of Dewhirst in Cardigan and Fishguard. I visited Fishguard in November and I came back with a proposal for a regeneration package within two months. When there are major job losses, whether in companies like Alcoa in Dolgarrog—where we helped with a management buy-out and were able to maintain a sizeable number of jobs with regional selective assistance—at Corus or at Dewhirst in north Pembrokeshire or in south Ceredigion, we always respond positively to that and to the impact on the community, irrespective of where in Wales they occur. At this stage it is too early to speculate on the causes, or to come forward with alternative proposals, because we must discuss with the company what its intentions are. I think that I speak for all Members in saying that our thoughts are with those who are facing the strong possibility of being made redundant.

Mae ein prif bryder ynghylch y rhai a gafodd eu diswyddo. Ar bwynt ffeithiol, ni chymerais flwyddyn i ymateb i’r achos o gau Dewhirst yn Aberteifi ac Abergwaun. Ymwelais ag Abergwaun ym mis Tachwedd a dychwelais gyda chynnig ar gyfer pecyn adfywio o fewn dau fis. Pan fydd llawer o bobl yn colli eu swyddi, pa un a ydynt yn gweithio i gwmnïau fel Alcoa yn Nolgarrog—lle y buom yn helpu’r rheolwyr i brynu’r cwmni a llwyddo i gadw nifer sylweddol o swyddi gyda chymorth rhanbarthol dewisol—yn Corus neu yn Dewhirst yng ngogledd sir Benfro neu yn ne sir Ceredigion, yr ydym bob amser yn ymateb yn gadarnhaol i hynny ac i’r effaith ar y gymuned, ble bynnag yng Nghymru y byddant yn digwydd. Ar hyn o bryd, mae’n rhy gynnar dyfalu pam mae hyn wedi digwydd, neu gynnig cynigion eraill, oherwydd rhaid inni drafod â’r cwmni beth yw ei fwriad. Credaf fy mod yn siarad ar ran pob Aelod wrth ddweud ein bod yn cydymdeimlo â’r rhai sy’n wynebu’r posibilrwydd cryf o gael eu diswyddo.

Datganiad ar yr Ymgynghoriad ar ‘Y Wlad sy’n Dysgu: Llwybrau Dysgu 14-19’

Statement on the Consultation on ‘The Learning Country: Learning Pathways 14-19’

Jane Davidson The Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning spoken in English p. 34

Jane Davidson Y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 34

I would like to report on the consultation process for ‘Learning Country: Learning Pathway 14-19’, and to touch on the issues that have been raised by stakeholders. The Assembly, in Plenary and Committee, has already debated both the development of the project on education for 14 to 19-year-olds and the proposals to emerge from it.

Hoffwn roi adroddiad ar y broses ymgynghori ar gyfer ‘Y Wlad sy’n Dysgu: Llwybrau Dysgu 14 –19’, a chrybwyll y materion a godwyd gan randdeiliaid. Mae’r Cynulliad, yn y Cyfarfod Llawn ac mewn Pwyllgor, eisoes wedi cael trafodaeth ar ddatblygiad y prosiect ar addysg ar gyfer y rhai rhwng 14 a 19 oed a’r cynigion sy’n deillio ohono.

The formal consultation period ended on 7 February. This followed the huge amount of pre-consultation carried out during May to September 2002. We were determined that this open approach should not stop when the document was published. Therefore, we have continued to debate the proposals, the thinking behind them and the issues surrounding them, with as many stakeholders as possible, face-to-face, on their own ground. Informal coffee mornings were arranged across the country and hundreds of people from many sectors talked to us and to each other. They had concerns, as the proposals are far-reaching. However, the groundswell of support for the principles underlying the proposals—equality of opportunity and social inclusion—was clear and encouraging. The structure will secure an entitlement for all our young people to a range of opportunities and experiences to help them develop the wide range of skills that they need. We have continued to listen to young people. Their input has been thoughtful and challenging and will continue to shape our thinking.

Daeth y cyfnod ymgynghori ffurfiol i ben ar 7 Chwefror. Dilynodd hyn y gwaith cyn-ymgynghori helaeth iawn a gynhaliwyd yn ystod Mai a Medi 2002. Yr oeddem yn benderfynol na ddylai’r ymagwedd agored hon ddod i ben pan gyhoeddid y ddogfen. Felly, yr ydym wedi parhau i drafod y cynigion, y syniadaeth sy’n sail iddynt a’r materion sy’n gysylltiedig â hwy, gyda chynifer o randdeiliaid â phosibl, wyneb yn wyneb yn eu cynefin. Trefnwyd boreau coffi anffurfiol ar draws y wlad a siaradodd cannoedd o bobl o sawl sector â ni, ac â’i gilydd. Yr oedd ganddynt bryderon, gan fod y cynigion yn bell-gyrhaeddol. Fodd bynnag yr oedd ymchwydd y gefnogaeth i egwyddorion sylfaenol y cynigion—cyfle cyfartal a chynhwysiant cymdeithasol—yn amlwg ac yn galonogol. Bydd y strwythur yn sicrhau hawl i bawb o’n pobl ifanc gael ystod o gyfleoedd a phrofiadau i’w cynorthwyo i ddatblygu’r ystod eang o sgiliau sydd eu hangen arnynt. Yr ydym wedi parhau i wrando ar bobl ifanc. Bu eu mewnbwn yn ystyrlon a heriol a bydd yn parhau i lywio ein syniadaeth.

The responses to the formal consultation, together with the results of all our local discussions, are being analysed, and a report will be made available to this Assembly and published on the internet by the end of February. However, clear messages are coming through, and I will share some of them with you today.

Mae’r ymatebion i’r ymgynghoriad ffurfiol, ynghyd â chanlyniadau pob un o’n trafodaethau lleol, yn cael eu dadansoddi, a darperir adroddiad i’r Cynulliad hwn ac fe’i cyhoeddir ar y rhyngrwyd erbyn diwedd Chwefror. Fodd bynnag, mae negeseuon cryf yn dod i’r amlwg, a rhannaf rai ohonynt gyda chi heddiw.

There is overall acceptance that the emphasis must be on learners first and that structures and sub-systems must change to meet the needs of learners. There is recognition that these proposals herald radical change in the way that our young people will plan and experience their learning, together with a cautious excitement about being involved in developing this. There is support for the proposed balance between knowledge, practical application and essential skill development support, looking at young people in the round and taking into account all aspects of their lives. There is also recognition of the need to engage in change for all young people at all levels of ability. These proposals are for the brightest and best as well as those who need significant extra support.

Derbynnir yn gyffredinol y dylai’r pwyslais fod ar ddysgwyr yn gyntaf a bod yn rhaid i strwythurau ac is-systemau newid i ddiwallu anghenion dysgwyr. Cydnabyddir bod y cynigion hyn yn arwydd o newid radical yn y ffordd y bydd ein pobl ifanc yn cynllunio ac yn cael profiad o’u dysgu, ynghyd â chyffro petrus ynglŷn â bod yn rhan o ddatblygu hwn. Ceir cefnogaeth i’r cydbwysedd arfaethedig rhwng dysg, cymhwysiad ymarferol a chymorth i ddatblygu sgiliau hanfodol, gan edrych ar bobl ifanc yn gyffredinol a rhoi ystyriaeth i bob agwedd ar eu bywydau. Cydnabyddir hefyd yr angen i ymgymryd â newid ar gyfer pobl ifanc o bob gallu. Mae’r cynigion hyn ar gyfer y disgleiriaf a’r gorau ynghyd â’r rheini sydd angen cymorth ychwanegol sylweddol.

There is a widespread desire, which is particularly strong among young people themselves, for the systems of support for young people to be as important as the curriculum choices that they make. We make a distinction in the proposals between support for learning pathway development and more general intermittent personal support at times of need, such as when a young person is being bullied or facing a family crisis, or has another personal problem that affects their learning and living. We have enough evidence of need to develop a model of entitlement for individuals with regard to their learning pathways, to identify the skill set needed to provide this entitlement and to identify those able to carry out these roles. There is much existing good practice that we can tap into. However, we cannot ignore the clear need for support.

Ceir dyhead cyffredinol, sy’n arbennig o gryf ymhlith pobl ifanc eu hunain, i’r systemau cymorth ar gyfer pobl ifanc fod cyn bwysiced â’r dewisiadau cwricwlwm a wnânt. Gwahaniaethwn yn y cynigion rhwng cymorth i ddatblygu llwybrau dysgu a chymorth personol cyffredinol mwy ysbeidiol ar adegau o angen, megis pan fydd person ifanc yn cael ei fwlio neu’n wynebu argyfwng teuluol, neu bod ganddynt broblem bersonol arall sy’n effeithio ar eu dysgu a’u bywyd. Mae gennym ddigon o dystiolaeth i ddatblygu model o hawliau i unigolion o ran eu llwybrau dysgu, i nodi’r set sgiliau sydd ei hangen i ddarparu’r hawl hwn, ac i nodi’r rheini sy’n gallu cyflawni’r rolau hyn. Mae llawer o arferion da eisoes yn bodoli y gallwn fanteisio arnynt. Fodd bynnag, ni allwn anwybyddu’r angen amlwg am gymorth.

Young people have also been clear about the choices that they would like to see available. They want a much wider range of vocational options. There is widespread support for the Welsh baccalaureate as the overarching award. The pilot programmes starting in September 2003 will help us to ensure that, by the time it is rolled out, it will be an exact fit for the learning routes that we develop. We must ensure that we have the capacity to deliver these radical changes. We know that it will cost more, and we plan to do some immediate work on modelling the proposals to find out how much more. We know that there will be training needs and a need for a number of organisations to develop stronger structures and more people. We know the significance of a level 2 intermediate qualification to individuals and communities. Those without it are more likely to have intermittent periods of short-term employment, with long periods of unemployment, and earn significantly less. We know that in areas where there are large numbers of people without an intermediate qualification, there is a lower level of gross domestic product per capita and poorer health. We also know that a large percentage of young offenders have difficulties with basic skills. These are powerful arguments, which have found a great deal of support throughout Wales.

Bu pobl ifanc hefyd yn eglur ynglŷn â’r dewisiadau yr hoffent iddynt eu cael. Maent yn dymuno cael ystod llawer ehangach o ddewisiadau galwedigaethol. Ceir cefnogaeth eang i’r fagloriaeth Gymreig fel y cymhwyster cyffredin. Bydd y rhaglenni peilot sy’n dechrau ym mis Medi 2003 yn ein cynorthwyo i sicrhau y bydd yn gwbl addas ar gyfer y llwybrau dysgu a ddatblygwn pan gaiff ei gyflwyno. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod gennym y gallu i gyflwyno’r newidiadau radical hyn. Gwyddom y bydd yn costio mwy, a bwriadwn wneud gwaith ar unwaith ar fodelu’r cynigion i ganfod faint yn fwy y bydd yn ei gostio. Gwyddom y bydd anghenion hyfforddi ac y bydd angen i nifer o sefydliadau ddatblygu strwythurau cadarnach a mwy o bobl. Gwyddom beth yw arwyddocâd cymhwyster canolradd lefel 2 i unigolion a chymunedau. Bydd y rheini hebddo yn fwy tebygol o gael cyfnodau ysbeidiol o gyflogaeth dros gyfnod byr, gyda chyfnodau hir o ddiweithdra, ac ennill cyflogau gryn dipyn yn llai. Gwyddom mewn ardaloedd lle ceir niferoedd mawr o bobl heb gymhwyster canolraddol, fod lefel is o gynnyrch mewnwladol crynswth y pen ac iechyd gwaeth. Gwyddom hefyd fod canran fawr o droseddwyr ifanc yn cael trafferthion gyda sgiliau sylfaenol. Mae’r rhain yn ddadleuon grymus, sydd wedi cael llawer o gefnogaeth ledled Cymru.

We have also identified significant common strands between the foundation stage proposals for children aged between three and seven and the philosophy for the phase for 14 to 19-year-olds. The approaches to learning, choice and flexibility in the curriculum, assessment and recording, support and guidance, organisation and implementation and quality assurance have much in common, and will form a strong backbone for development of distinctive, made-in-Wales approaches to learning for all age groups.

Nodwyd hefyd elfennau cyffredin arwyddocaol rhwng y cynigion cam sylfaenol i blant rhwng tair a saith oed a’r athroniaeth ar gyfer y cam i rai rhwng 14 a 19 oed. Mae gan yr ymagweddau tuag at ddysgu, dewis a hyblygrwydd yn y cwricwlwm, asesu a chofnodi, cymorth ac arweiniad, trefniadaeth a gweithrediad a sicrwydd ansawdd, lawer sy’n gyffredin, a bydd yn creu asgwrn cefn cryf ar gyfer datblygu ymagweddau tuag at ddysgu a grëwyd yng Nghymru i bob grŵp oedran.

We have suggested that local networks for 14 to 19-year-olds should be the vehicle for planning to deliver wider and more flexible provision for those aged 14 onwards. Many areas of Wales are already developing such a function. I am enormously encouraged to hear that some areas are already working towards implementing these proposals. The Cardiff Collegium has pioneered some of these ideas, and Carmarthenshire has ambitious plans for 14 to 19 networks to extend the range of vocational and other options for their young people, closely linked with the community consortia for education and training and young people’s partnerships, as well as developing innovative strategies for e-learning.

Yr ydym wedi awgrymu y dylai rhwydweithiau lleol ar gyfer rhai 14 i 19 oed fod yn gyfrwng ar gyfer cynllunio darpariaeth ehangach a mwy hyblyg i’r rhai 14 oed a hŷn. Mae sawl rhan o Gymru eisoes yn datblygu swyddogaeth o’r fath. Fe’m calonogir yn fawr i glywed bod rhai ardaloedd eisoes yn gweithio tuag at roi’r cynigion hyn ar waith. Mae Colegiwm Caerdydd wedi arloesi gyda rhai o’r syniadau hyn, ac mae gan Sir Gaerfyrddin gynlluniau uchelgeisiol ar gyfer rhwydweithiau 14 i 19 oed i ymestyn ystod y dewisiadau galwedigaethol a dewisiadau eraill i’w pobl ifanc, wedi’u cysylltu’n agos â chonsortia cymunedol ar gyfer addysg a hyfforddiant a phartneriaethau pobl ifanc, ynghyd â datblygu strategaethau arloeswr ar gyfer e-ddysgu.

We intend to discuss the action plan in Plenary on 2 April. We know that there is still much work to do. However, what is so encouraging from the responses so far is the willingness of people in all sectors to work in partnership to continue to develop the detail. The 14 to 19 years project has been an example of real partnership in developing policy.

Bwriadwn drafod y cynllun gweithredu yn y Cyfarfod Llawn ar 2 Ebrill. Gwyddom fod llawer o waith i’w wneud o hyd. Fodd bynnag, yr hyn sydd mor galonogol o’r ymatebion hyd yn hyn yw parodrwydd pobl ym mhob sector gwaith i weithio mewn partneriaeth i ddatblygu’r manylion. Bu’r prosiect 14 i 19 oed yn enghraifft o bartneriaeth wirioneddol mewn datblygu polisi.

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 37

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 37

I thank the Minister for the advance copy of the statement. Having read through it and listened to you deliver it this afternoon, I thought that we were going to get a detailed policy update. However, we have had the consultation process and we have heard the pre-consultation process statement, which outlined already much of what is in this statement, so there is nothing new to spend time on this afternoon. We look forward to the publication of the consultation responses and a debate on that at the beginning of April. However, this statement is classic time-filling.

Diolchaf i’r Gweinidog am gopi ymlaen llaw o’r datganiad. Wedi imi ddarllen a gwrando arnoch yn ei gyflwyno’r prynhawn yma, tybiais ein bod yn mynd i gael diweddariad polisi manwl. Fodd bynnag, cawsom y broses ymgynghori a chlywsom ddatganiad ar y broses cyn yr ymgynghoriad, a amlinellodd eisoes lawer o’r hyn sydd yn y datganiad hwn, felly nid oes dim byd newydd i dreulio amser arno y prynhawn yma. Edrychwn ymlaen at gyhoeddi’r ymatebion i’r ymgynghoriad a’r ddadl ar hynny ddechrau Ebrill. Fodd bynnag, mae’r datganiad hwn yn enghraifft glasurol o ladd amser.

A number of points jumped out in this statement. You said that there was a groundswell of support for the underlying proposals. The buzz phrases were ‘equality of opportunity’ and ‘social inclusion’. I was hoping to find educational excellence included somewhere, but I did not track it down. As this is an educational agenda, that should be the number one on our list. Your outline of structures and sub-systems that need to be changed did not refer to funding and to whether you think that ELWa should be given responsibility for funding education for 14 to 19-year-olds and not just post-16 education. I am somewhat concerned about how you are approaching this particular change. If you want to be completely strategic about delivering an agenda for 14 to 19-year-olds in the same way that you wished to be strategic in delivering an agenda for 16 to 19-year-olds, the money and the mechanism must follow the framework for delivery. It is bizarre that we are now going to have a learning pathway for 14 to 19-year-olds, which will be strategic in its approach, but the funding will go in two different directions—the funding for 14 to 16-year-olds via ourselves and the local authorities, and that for 16 to 19-year-olds via ourselves, Education and Learning Wales and the local authorities. It is confusing and a bit of a mess. You may need to consider the structure and the way in which funding delivers this particular agenda.

Daeth nifer o bwyntiau i’r amlwg yn y datganiad hwn. Dywedasoch fod ymchwydd o gefnogaeth i’r cynigion sylfaenol. Y geiriau bachog oedd ‘cyfle cyfartal’ a ‘chynhwysiant cymdeithasol’. Yr oeddwn wedi gobeithio gweld rhagoriaeth addysgol yn cael ei chynnwys yn rhywle, ond methais â’i chanfod. Gan mai agenda addysgol yw hon, dylai hynny fod ar ben ein rhestr. Ni chyfeiriodd eich amlinelliad o’r strwythurau a’r is-systemau sydd angen eu newid at ariannu ac at pa un a gredwch y dylai ELWa gael cyfrifoldeb dros ariannu addysg pobl ifanc 14 -19 oed ac nid dim ond addysg ôl-16. Yr wyf braidd yn bryderus ynglŷn â’r modd yr ydych yn mynd ati i gyflawni’r newid arbennig hwn. Os ydych am fod yn gwbl strategol ynglŷn â chyflwyno agenda i’r rhai 14 i 19 oed, yn yr un modd ag yr oeddech am fod yn strategol ynglŷn â chyflawni agenda ar gyfer y rhai 16 i 19 oed, rhaid i’r arian a’r dull ddilyn y fframwaith ar gyfer ei gyflwyno. Mae’n od ein bod yn awr yn mynd i gael llwybr dysgu ar gyfer y rhai 14 – 19 oed, a fydd yn strategol o ran ei ymagwedd ond gyda’r arian yn mynd i ddau gyfeiriad gwahanol—yr arian ar gyfer y rhai 14 i 16 oed yn cael ei weithredu drwyom ni a’r awdurdodau lleol, a hwnnw ar gyfer y rhai 16 i 19 oed drwyom ni, Dysgu ac Addysgu Cymru a’r awdurdodau lleol. Mae’n ddryslyd ac yn dipyn o gawl. Efallai fod angen ichi ystyried y strwythur a’r modd y mae ariannu yn cyflawni’r agenda arbennig hon.

On young people being involved in developing their education, will you give a commitment that there will be a balance between academic, vocational and life experience? Large numbers of young people may want to concentrate more on the academic side of their studies. Others may wish to concentrate more on the vocational side and others may wish to improve their life skills and life experiences. A huge amount of flexibility must be built in to allow students and young people to determine the best course of action. You said that there is widespread support for the Welsh baccalaureate, but there is also widespread concern as to whether the qualification will be rigorous enough. The Institute of Welsh Affairs slammed it, and the Welsh Joint Education Committee only bid to pilot the scheme because nobody else wanted it, and there are others who see this as a soggy mix of existing qualifications, and not truly a baccalaureate scheme. Those are genuine concerns, not only expressed by Assembly Members, but by educationalists and others in industry and business throughout Wales.

O ran pobl ifanc yn ymwneud â datblygu eu haddysg, a roddwch ymrwymiad y bydd cydbwysedd rhwng y profiad academaidd, galwedigaethol a phrofiad o fywyd? Efallai y bydd niferoedd mawr o bobl ifanc am ganolbwyntio mwy ar ochr academaidd eu hastudiaethau. Bydd eraill efallai am ganolbwyntio mwy ar yr ochr alwedigaethol a bydd eraill o bosibl am wella eu sgiliau bywyd a’u profiadau bywyd. Rhaid i swm anferth o hyblygrwydd gael ei roi i ganiatáu i fyfyrwyr a phobl ifanc benderfynu ar y camau gorau. Dywedasoch fod cefnogaeth eang i’r fagloriaeth Gymreig, ond ceir pryder eang hefyd ynghylch a fydd y cymhwyster yn un digon cadarn. Condemniwyd hi gan y Sefydliad Materion Cymreig a dim ond am nad oedd neb arall am wneud hynny y cynigiodd Cyd Bwyllgor Addysg Cymru gynnal cynllun peilot ohoni, ac mae eraill yn ei gweld fel cymysgedd diflas o gymwysterau presennol ac nid yn gynllun bagloriaeth gwirioneddol. Mae’r rheini yn bryderon gwirioneddol, a fynegir nid yn unig gan Aelodau’r Cynulliad, ond gan addysgwyr ac eraill mewn diwydiant a busnes ledled Cymru.

Finally, my other concern is that we are introducing an overly-bureaucratic system to develop and deliver this agenda. You suggested networks for 14 to 19-year-olds, which involves an additional set of committee meetings, in addition to the community consortia for education and training in Wales, which now stand at over 20. ELWa is involved on the one hand, the local education authorities are delivering on the other, because they will still be responsible for funding education for 14 to 16-year-olds—unless you change you mind—and we have CCETs to consider provision within local authority areas, as well as 14 to 19 networks. This looks messy and unduly complicated for schools and colleges in Wales. Can it not be simplified? It is, as my colleague David Melding would put it, as bureaucratic as the health service. I hope that you will take these concerns on board and issue further proposals when we debate this in April.

Yn olaf, fy mhryder arall yw ein bod yn cyflwyno system or-fiwrocrataidd i ddatblygu a chyflawni’r agenda hon. Awgrymasoch rwydweithiau ar gyfer y rhai 14 i 19 oed, sy’n golygu set ychwanegol o gyfarfodydd pwyllgor, yn ychwanegol at y consortia cymunedol ar gyfer addysg a hyfforddiant yng Nghymru, y ceir mwy nag 20 ohonynt erbyn hyn. Mae gan ELWa ran ar un llaw, mae’r awdurdodau addysg lleol yn darparu ar y llall, gan y byddant yn parhau yn gyfrifol am ariannu addysg i’r rhai 14 i 16 oed—oni bai eich bod yn newid eich meddwl—ac mae gennym ni y Consortia Cymunedol ar gyfer Addysg a Hyfforddiant i ystyried darpariaeth o fewn ardaloedd awdurdodau lleol, ynghyd â rhwydweithiau 14 i 19 oed. Ymddengys hyn yn anniben ac yn or-gymhleth i ysgolion a cholegau yng Nghymru. Oni ellir ei symleiddio? Fel y dywedai fy nghyd-Aelod David Melding, mae mor fiwrocrataidd â’r gwasanaeth iechyd. Gobeithiaf y rhoddwch ystyriaeth i’r pryderon hyn a chyhoeddi cynigion eraill pan fyddwn yn trafod hyn ym mis Ebrill.

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 39

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 39

I undertook to respond to the Assembly once the consultation period had ended. The consultation period ended on 7 February, and so I am responding now and informing the Assembly of the key themes that have come forward in the consultation. We need more time, because some responses to the consultation are still coming in, including one from Funky Dragon. It is important to our commitment to engage with young people that we allow a little more time so that those organisations that, historically, have not responded to consultations, can do so. We therefore want to have a full debate on the action plan, which is scheduled for the last session of this Assembly.

Addewais roi ymateb i’r Cynulliad unwaith y byddai’r cyfnod ymgynghori wedi dod i ben. Daeth y cyfnod ymgynghori i ben ar 7 Chwefror, ac felly yr wyf yn ymateb yn awr ac yn rhoi gwybod i’r Cynulliad beth yw’r themâu allweddol a gododd yn yr ymgynghoriad. Mae angen mwy o amser arnom, oherwydd fod rhai ymatebion i’r ymgynghoriad yn dal i gyrraedd, yn cynnwys un gan Draig Ffynci. Mae’n bwysig i’n hymrwymiad i gysylltu gyda phobl ifanc ein bod yn rhoi ychydig mwy o amser fel bod cyrff sy’n draddodiadol heb ymateb i ymgynghoriadau, yn gallu gwneud hynny. Felly yr ydym yn awyddus i gael dadl lawn ar y cynllun gweithredu, sydd wedi ei threfnu ar gyfer sesiwn ddiwethaf y Cynulliad hwn.

This has been a revolutionary process, in which the Committee has been fully involved. We had presentations to the Committee and we undertook pre-consultation. We are trying to demonstrate the value of having an open partnership process so that we can ensure consensus on the way forward. I wanted to have the opportunity to make a response to Members soon after the consultation period closed, so that we could think about the questions that Members raise in our work on the action plan that we will bring forward at the beginning of April.

Bu hon yn broses chwyldroadol y bu’r Pwyllgor yn ymwneud â hi yn llawn. Cawsom gyflwyniadau i’r Pwyllgor a chynhaliwyd gwaith cyn-ymgynghoriad. Yr ydym yn ceisio dangos gwerth cael proses partneriaeth agored fel ein bod yn gallu sicrhau consensws ar y ffordd ymlaen. Yr oeddwn am gael y cyfle i ymateb i Aelodau yn fuan ar ôl i’r cyfnod ymgynghori ddod i ben er mwyn inni allu meddwl am y cwestiynau a ofynnir gan ei Haelodau yn ein gwaith ar y cynllun gweithredu y byddwn yn ei gyflwyno ddechrau Ebrill.

I would like to make three points in relation to your comments. The common platform that we propose in the document has received positive responses. It would make it a statutory requirement to study English; Welsh; mathematics; science; physical education; religious education; careers education; sex and relationships education; personal and social education from this year, and work-related education from 2004. That is a mix of traditional, core-curriculum academic subjects and other subjects that the Committee has suggested are also valuable in developing life skills. It will then include options, in addition to the existing subject options of a range of modern foreign languages, of work-based and community learning, which are not available across the board at the moment. Again, that has received a positive response.

Carwn wneud tri phwynt mewn perthynas â’ch sylwadau. Cafodd y llwyfan cyffredin a gynigiwyd gennym yn y ddogfen ymatebion cadarnhaol. Byddai’n ei gwneud yn ofyniad yn statudol i ddysgu Saesneg; Cymraeg; mathemateg; gwyddoniaeth; addysg gorfforol; addysg grefyddol; addysg gyrfaoedd; addysg rhyw a pherthnasau; addysg bersonol a chymdeithasol o eleni ymlaen, ac addysg yn gysylltiedig â gwaith o 2004 ymlaen. Mae hynny’n gymysgedd o bynciau traddodiadol academaidd y cwricwlwm craidd a phynciau eraill y mae’r Pwyllgor wedi awgrymu sydd hefyd yn werthfawr o ran datblygu sgiliau bywyd. Bydd wedyn yn cynnwys dewisiadau, yn ychwanegol at y dewisiadau pwnc presennol o ystod o ieithoedd tramor modern, dysgu yn y gwaith a dysgu cymunedol, nad ydynt ar gael yn gyffredinol ar hyn o bryd. Eto cafwyd ymateb cadarnhaol i hynny.

The continuum of learning will enable young people to practice and develop their key personal and inter-personal skills, including those related to employability; this has been strongly supported by a range of employers. There is also the curriculum component ‘Wales, Europe and the World’. Learners will need to reach acceptable levels in the key skills. Those are the core elements. You mentioned education and excellence; our current system is good at producing educational excellence. All young people who aspire to achieve that kind of educational excellence will still be able to choose to do traditional qualifications.

Bydd y continwwm dysgu yn galluogi pobl ifanc i ymarfer a datblygu eu sgiliau personol a rhyng-bersonol allweddol, yn cynnwys y rhieni sy’n gysylltiedig a chyflogadwyedd; cafodd hyn gefnogaeth gref gan ystod o gyflogwyr. Hefyd mae’r elfen cwricwlwm ‘Cymru, Ewrop a’r Byd’. Bydd angen i ddysgwyr gyrraedd lefelau derbyniol yn y sgiliau allweddol. Y rheini yw’r elfennau craidd. Soniasoch am addysg a rhagoriaeth; mae ein system gyfredol yn dda o ran cynhyrchu rhagoriaeth academaidd. Bydd pob person ifanc sy’n anelu at gyrraedd y math hwnnw o ragoriaeth addysgol yn parhau i allu dewis cymwysterau traddodiadol.

In my statement I mentioned the best and the brightest, as well as the others. We have discussed in Committee that we cannot continue to support a system that, in effect, fails half of our educational cohort. Only 50 per cent of our young people get grades A* to C at GCSE. That is why we must consider the system. We have already seen that those schools that have broadened the educational agenda and have more vocational options are doing much better for their young people. More of those pupils are staying on, truancy rates are lower, and they are achieving better results at GCSE. We are pulling those principles together, and this has been strongly supported.

Yn fy natganiad soniais am y gorau a’r disgleiriaf, ynghyd ag eraill. Trafodasom yn y Pwyllgor na allwn barhau i gefnogi system sydd, mewn gwirionedd, yn fethiant i hanner ein carfan addysgol. Dim ond 50 y cant o’n pobl ifanc sy’n cael graddau A* i C yn eu TGAU. Dyna pam y mae’n rhaid inni ystyried y system. Gwelsom eisoes fod yr ysgolion hynny sydd wedi ymestyn eu hagenda addysgol, ac sydd â dewisiadau mwy galwedigaethol, yn gwneud yn llawer iawn gwell dros eu pobl ifanc . Mae mwy o’r disgyblion hynny’n aros yn yr ysgol, mae cyfraddau triwantiaeth yn is, ac maent yn cael gwell canlyniadau yn yr arholiadau TGAU. Yr ydym yn dwyn yr egwyddorion hynny at ei gilydd, a chefnogwyd hyn yn gadarn.

Ann Jones spoken in English p. 40

Ann Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 40

I welcome the fact that we will discuss the action plan in April. I am pleased to see that some of the responses will be coming in from young people themselves. However, the agenda for 14 to 19-year-olds can only succeed if educational standards prior to the age of 14 are taken into account. I hope that we can address that.

Croesawaf y ffaith y byddwn yn trafod y cynllun gweithredu ym mis Ebrill. Yr wyf yn falch o weld y bydd rhai o’r ymatebion yn dod oddi wrth y bobl ifanc eu hunain. Fodd bynnag, dim ond os bydd safonau addysg cyn 14 oed yn cael eu hystyried y gall yr agenda i’r rhai 14 i 19 oed lwyddo. Gobeithiaf y gallwn fynd i’r afael â hynny.

There are many other educational methods that we should consider, including the projects that help those children who do not attain grades A* to C at GCSE. Many children do not even sit the examinations. I would like to be assured that any associated funding will encompass those projects to assist those young people, many of whom come from communities that feel that the Assembly does nothing for them.

Mae llawer o ddulliau addysgol eraill y dylem eu hystyried, yn cynnwys prosiectau i helpu’r plant hynny nad ydynt yn ennill graddau A* i C yn eu TGAU. Mae llawer o blant nad ydynt hyd yn oed yn sefyll yr arholiadau. Carwn gael fy sicrhau y bydd unrhyw arian cysylltiedig yn cwmpasu’r prosiectau hynny i gynorthwyo’r bobl ifanc hynny, y mae llawer ohonynt yn dod o gymunedau sy’n teimlo nad yw’r Cynulliad yn gwneud dim drostynt.

Will you assure me that when we debate the action plan on 2 April the funding streams will be in place to ensure that children from disadvantaged communities, if they have not already had a good start in primary school, will feel that someone is working for them? It is important that they can achieve a qualification, even if it is just a certificate to prove they have attended a course. It might be the only certificate that they receive, but it would give them the start that they need to go on to achieve more. It does not necessarily have to be a grade A to grade C.

A roddwch sicrwydd imi pan fyddwn yn trafod y cynllun gweithredu ar 2 Ebrill y bydd y ffrydiau ariannu yn eu lle i sicrhau bod plant o gymunedau difreintiedig, os na chawsant ddechrau da yn yr ysgol gynradd eisoes, yn teimlo bod rhywun yn gweithio ar eu rhan? Mae’n bwysig eu bod yn gallu ennill cymhwyster, hyd yn oed os mai dim ond tystysgrif ydyw i brofi eu bod wedi mynychu cwrs. Efallai mai honno fydd yr unig dystysgrif a gânt, ond byddai’n rhoi’r hwb dechreuol sydd ei angen arnynt i fynd ymlaen i gyflawni rhagor. Nid oes rhaid iddo o anghenraid fod yn radd A i radd C.

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 41

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 41

You have raised an important point. When I became Minister, we were at the point of implementing the arrangements for post-16 learning. Many people asked me why the cut-off point was 16 and, as a former teacher, it also struck me that the age at which young people have to make choices is 14. As you say, we must get the continuum right, and that is what we are trying to achieve across the education agenda. That is why we will debate what we want for our youngest children later this afternoon, and why we took Wales-only powers in the Education Act 2002 to work on transition and develop a continuum of learning. That is also why we are encouraging people from deprived areas and from low-income families to stay in learning beyond the age of 19, through Assembly learning grants. We want to encourage people to continue learning through to level 3. We are considering many ways of creating the right continuum of learning, the right assessments, and ensuring that we have the right funding in place to support learners.

Codasoch bwynt pwysig. Pan ddeuthum yn Weinidog, yr oeddem ar fin gweithredu’r trefniadau ar gyfer dysgu ôl-16. Gofynnodd llawer o bobl imi pam mai 16 oed oedd yr oedran terfyn ac, fel cyn-athrawes, fe’m trawodd hefyd mai’r oedran pan fo’n rhaid i bobl ifanc wneud dewisiadau yw 14. Fel y dywedwch, rhaid inni gael y continwwm yn iawn, a dyna’r hyn y ceisiwn ei gyflawni ar draws yr agenda addysg. Dyna pam y byddwn yn trafod beth y dymunwn ei gael i’n plant ieuengaf yn ddiweddarach y prynhawn yma, a pham y mabwysiadwyd pwerau Cymru’n unig gennym yn Neddf Addysg 2002 i weithio ar drawsnewid a datblygu continwwm dysgu. Dyna hefyd pam yr ydym yn annog pobl o ardaloedd difreintiedig ac o deuluoedd ar incwm isel i aros mewn dysgu y tu hwnt i 19 oed, drwy grantiau dysgu’r Cynulliad. Yr ydym am annog pobl i barhau i ddysgu drwodd i lefel 3. Yr ydym yn ystyried llawer o ffyrdd o greu y continwwm dysgu, yr asesiadau cywir, a sicrhau bod gennym yr arian cywir yn ei le i gynorthwyo’r dysgwyr.

One of the document’s key proposals is to provide learning coaches for young people. We want to consider how to take that agenda forward, as well as tackling workload reforms in our schools. We can then have measured progress in changing from our current agenda to one with a greater focus on giving all young people a chance to succeed to the best of their ability. That is what an educational system should be about.

Un o gynigion allweddol y ddogfen yw darparu hyfforddwyr dysgu ar gyfer pobl ifanc. Yr ydym am ystyried sut i ddatblygu’r agenda honno, ynghyd â mynd i’r afael â’r diwygiadau baich gwaith yn ein hysgolion. Wedyn gallwn gael cynnydd rhesymol mewn newid o’n hagenda gyfredol i un â mwy o ffocws ar roi cyfle i bobl ifanc lwyddo hyd eithaf eu gallu. Dyna beth ddylai system addysg fod.

Helen Mary Jones spoken in English p. 42

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 42

As you know, Minister, we are happy to welcome and endorse your overall approach towards 14 to 19-year-olds’ education, and we look forward to seeing the action plan. Perhaps you can address some of the points I will make today.

Fel y gwyddoch Weinidog, mae’n dda gennym groesawu a chefnogi eich ymagwedd gyffredinol tuag at addysg y rhai rhwng 14 a 19 oed, ac edrychwn ymlaen at weld y cynllun gweithredu. Efallai y gallech fynd i’r afael â rhai o’r pwyntiau a wnaf heddiw.

I also see the strong connections between education for three to seven-year-olds—or, as we prefer to call it, the nought to seven-years phase—and the 14 to 19 phase. What steps are you taking to join those two phases, and what is your timetable for that? I fear that, if we continue as we are, we might end up with two positive, flexible approaches on either end of the school-age spectrum, and a rigid and unresponsive approach sandwiched in the middle of it. I know that that is not your intention, but we need an overall and not a piecemeal approach to this transformation, including changes to the curriculum and to learning methods.

Gwelaf innau hefyd y cysylltiadau cryf rhwng addysg ar gyfer plant tair i saith oed—neu, fel y mae’n well gennym ei alw, y cyfnod o ddim i saith oed—a’r cyfnod 14 i 19 oed. Pa gamau yr ydych yn eu cymryd i gysylltu’r ddau gyfnod hynny, a beth yw eich amserlen ar gyfer hynny? Ofnaf, os parhawn fel yr ydym, inni ddiweddu gyda dwy ymagwedd gadarnhaol, hyblyg ar ddau ben y sbectrwm oedran ysgol, ac ymagwedd anystwyth anymatebol yn y canol. Gwn nad dyna eich bwriad, ond mae arnom angen ymagwedd gyffredinol nid un ddarniog tuag at y trawsnewidiad hwn, yn cynnwys newidiadau i’r cwricwlwm ac i ddulliau dysgu.

What is the timetable for the proposal to model the financial implications for these radical changes? Perhaps you could come back to us on that in the action plan. This work requires major investment, and those involved in this radical process need to know when they will know what kind of investment they will get and from where it will come.

Beth yw’r amserlen ar gyfer y cynnig i fodelu’r goblygiadau ariannol i’r newidiadau radical hyn? Efallai y gallech ddod yn ôl atom ar hynny yn y cynllun gweithredu. Mae’r gwaith hwn yn galw am fuddsoddiad sylweddol, ac mae angen i’r rheini sy’n ymwneud â’r broses radical hon wybod pryd y cânt wybod pa fath o fuddsoddiad a gânt ac o ble y daw.

Following on from Jonathan Morgan’s point about the networks for 14 to 19-year-olds, I share his concern. Our concerns do not affect us, but for those people who must deliver these networks on the ground, they are relevant. Education practitioners, especially those in the voluntary sector, have told me that they feel as though they spend much of their time sitting in partnership meetings when they want to be out there, delivering. I understand the need to bring people together but, as the agenda settles down, will you commit to monitoring the interface between the community consortia for education and training, the young people’s partnerships and the 14 to 19 partnerships, with a view to streamlining them? Although they all have distinct jobs to do, they can perhaps all be done at the same place and broadly by the same people.

Gan ddilyn yr hyn a ddywedwyd gan Jonathan Morgan am y rhwydweithiau ar gyfer y rhai 14 i 19 oed, rhannaf ei bryder. Nid yw ein pryderon yn effeithio arnom ni, ond maent yn berthnasol i’r bobl hynny fydd yn gorfod cyflwyno’r rhwydweithiau hyn yn ymarferol. Mae pobl sy’n gweithio ym myd addysg, yn arbennig y rheini yn y sector gwirfoddol, wedi dweud wrthyf eu bod yn teimlo eu bod yn treulio llawer o’u hamser mewn cyfarfodydd partneriaeth pan maent am fod allan yn y maes yn cyflawni pethau. Deallaf fod angen dod â phobl ynghyd ond, wrth i’r agenda ymsefydlu, a wnewch chi ymrwymo i fonitro’r rhyngwyneb rhwng y consortia cymunedol ar gyfer addysg a hyfforddiant, partneriaethau’r bobl ifanc a phartneriaethau i’r rhai rhwng 14 a 19 oed, gyda’r bwriad o’u symleiddio? Er bod ganddynt waith gwahanol i’w wneud, efallai y gellir eu gwneud yn yr un lle ac yn fras gan yr un bobl.

I refer you to your comment that:

Cyfeiriaf at eich sylw bod y

‘These proposals are for the brightest and best as well as those who need significant extra support.’

‘cynigion hyn ar gyfer y disgleiriaf a’r gorau ynghyd â’r rheini sydd angen cymorth ychwanegol sylweddol.’

I invite you to reconsider that comment because, by drawing that distinction, are we not assuming that those who need additional support are, by definition, not the brightest and best? I am sure that that is not what you meant but, if that comment were taken out of context, it could be seen to perpetuate the kind of division between the clever and the not clever that this approach to education for 14 to 19-year-olds is meant to move away from. I give you the opportunity to correct that, should you feel it appropriate to do so.

Fe’ch gwahoddaf i ailystyried y sylw hwnnw oherwydd, drwy wneud y gwahaniaeth hwnnw, onid ydym yn tybio nad yw’r rheini sydd angen cymorth ychwanegol gyda’r disgleiriaf a’r gorau? Yr wyf yn siŵr nad dyna yr oeddech yn eu olygu ond, os tynnir y sylw hwnnw allan o’i gyd-destun, gellid ystyried ei fod yn ychwanegu at y math o raniad rhwng y rhai galluog a’r rhai llai galluog y mae’r ymagwedd hon tuag at addysg ar gyfer y rhai rhwng 14 a 19 oed wedi ei bwriadu i bellhau oddi wrthi. Rhoddaf y cyfle ichi unioni hynny, os teimlwch ei bod yn briodol gwneud hynny.

Finally, I refer to your comment on the need for organisations to develop stronger structures and possibly to take on more staff. Does that list of organisations include Education and Learning Wales? Will your statement today influence your approach to ELWa’s current bid for extra funding to avoid redundancies? A reference to money has been made, but as that is predominantly a managerial matter, I hope that you will be able to answer the question.

Yn olaf, cyfeiriaf at eich sylw ar yr angen i sefydliadau ddatblygu strwythurau cadarnach ac o bosibl gyflogi rhagor o staff. A yw’r rhestr o sefydliadau yn cynnwys Dysgu ac Addysgu Cymru? A fydd eich datganiad heddiw yn dylanwadu ar eich ymagwedd tuag at gynnig cyfredol ELWa am arian ychwanegol i osgoi diswyddiadau? Cyfeiriwyd at arian, ond gan fod hynny’n bennaf yn fater rheolaethol, gobeithiaf y byddwch yn gallu ateb y cwestiwn.

I ask you again to accept that you cannot deliver on the ‘Learning Country: Learning Pathways 14-19’ agenda while ELWa, one of the major bodies that is meant to deliver on it, has zero credibility among the people that it is meant to work with. Will you take some political responsibility for putting this right, possibly by supporting no named day motion NNDM1351 that we tabled yesterday? That asks for a broad inquiry to address the management issues—not just the financial issues which, I accept, may need to wait—that are causing these problems with ELWa. If they are not resolved, they could undermine the positive agenda that we are discussing today.

Gofynnaf ichi eto dderbyn na allwch gyflawni agenda ‘Y Wlad sy’n Dysgu: Llwybrau Dysgu 14 – 19’ os nad oes gan ELWa, un o’r prif gyrff y disgwylir iddo ei chyflawni, unrhyw hygrededd ymhlith y bobl y mae disgwyl iddo weithio gyda hwy. A wnewch chi gymryd peth cyfrifoldeb gwleidyddol dros unioni hyn, o bosibl drwy gefnogi’r cynnig heb ddyddiad trafod NNDM1351 a gyflwynwyd gennym ddoe? Geilw hwnnw am ymchwiliad eang i fynd i’r afael â’r materion rheoli—nid materion ariannol yn unig a fydd efallai, yr wyf yn derbyn, yn gorfod aros—sy’n achosi’r problemau hyn gydag ELWa. Os na chânt eu datrys, gallent danseilio’r agenda gadarn hael yr ydym yn ei thrafod heddiw.

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 44

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 44

In terms of the timescale, we want to ensure that we do not introduce anything too quickly. We want to be able to pilot, evaluate and monitor, and build our findings into the action plan. We made some suggestions in the document—I have not had a chance to consider all the proposals yet; we have received 233 responses so far—but we can set out the timescales and the support in the action plan.

O ran amserlen, yr ydym am sicrhau nad ydym yn cyflwyno unrhyw beth yn rhy gyflym. Yr ydym yn dymuno gallu cynnal peilot, gwerthuso a monitro, a chynnwys ein canfyddiadau yn y cynllun gweithredu. Gwnaethom rai sylwadau yn y ddogfen—ni chefais gyfle i ystyried y cynigion i gyd eto; yr ydym wedi derbyn 233 o ymatebion hyd yn hyn—ond gallwn roi’r amserlenni a’r cymorth yn y cynllun gweithredu.

Currently, in terms of the 14 to 19 network, we are considering establishing a sort of sub-set of the CCETs. Lay people would be involved in it, although sometimes its membership would be wider than that. I accept your point; we do not want to set up another mechanism for people who already have to meet at a local level in other contexts. However, there must be links with the young people’s partnerships, because one of the key proposals here, about learning coaches, links strongly with the ‘Extending Entitlement’ agenda, and getting more informal support for learning in our schools, as well as formal support. There are issues around how we support young people entering a work-based environment from the age of 14, as that begs health and safety and insurance questions. Therefore, taking this forward will require many hard discussions.

Ar hyn o bryd, o ran y rhwydwaith 14 i 19 oed, yr ydym yn ystyried sefydlu rhyw fath o is-set o’r Consortia Cymunedol ar gyfer Addysg a Hyfforddiant. Byddai lleygwyr yn rhan ohono, er y byddai ei aelodaeth weithiau yn ehangach na hynny. Derbyniaf eich pwynt; nid ydym am sefydlu dull arall i bobl sydd eisoes yn gorfod cwrdd ar lefel leol mewn cyd-destunau eraill. Fodd bynnag, rhaid cael cysylltiadau gyda’r partneriaethau pobl ifanc, oherwydd bod cysylltiad cryf rhwng un o’r cynigion allweddol yma am hyfforddwyr dysgu, gyda’r agenda ‘Ymestyn Hawliau’ a chael cefnogaeth fwy anffurfiol ar gyfer dysgu yn ein hysgolion, ynghyd â chefnogaeth ffurfiol. Mae materion yn codi ynglŷn â sut y rhoddwn gefnogaeth i bobl ifanc sy’n mynd i amgylchedd gwaith yn 14 oed, gan fod hynny’n codi cwestiynau ynghylch iechyd a diogelwch ac yswiriant. Felly, bydd datblygu hyn yn galw am lawer o drafodaethau dwys.

The issue is not so much for funders, but ensuring that, as an Assembly Government, we work with the work-based learning providers. We must ensure that schools and colleges are actively engaged in delivering the best possible quality agenda for all young people. I confirm that one concern expressed by some consultation respondents—and by Jonathan Morgan—was whether or not the proposals would adequately cater for those currently achieving educational excellence.

Nid problem yn ymwneud ag arianwyr ydyw, ond yn hytrach sicrhau ein bod ni, fel Llywodraeth y Cynulliad, yn gweithio gyda darparwyr dysgu yn y gwaith. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod ysgolion a cholegau yn cymryd rhan weithredol yn y gwaith o gyflwyno’r agenda orau posibl ar gyfer yr holl bobl ifanc. Cadarnhaf mai un pryder a fynegwyd gan rai ymatebwyr i’r ymgynghoriad—a chan Jonathan Morgan—oedd a fyddai’r cynigion yn darparu’n ddigonol ar gyfer y rheini sy’n cyflawni rhagoriaeth addysgol ar hyn o bryd.

We do not draw a distinction between the clever and the not clever, because we wanted to create an agenda that was better for all young people in Wales. Today I am responding to concerns raised in the consultation. However, I am happy to confirm again—as I have done every time that we have debated the subject in the Chamber—that this is about encouraging everyone in the 14 to 19 age range to achieve to the best of their ability, and to expand opportunities in Wales as a result of these changes, which are receiving wide support.

Nid ydym yn gwahaniaethu rhwng y galluog a’r llai galluog, oherwydd yr oeddem am greu agenda a oedd yn well i holl bobl ifanc Cymru. Heddiw yr wyf yn ymateb i bryderon a godwyd yn yr ymgynghoriad. Fodd bynnag y mae’n dda gennyf gadarnhau eto—fel y gwneuthum bob tro yr ydym wedi trafod y pwnc yn y Siambr—fod hyn yn ymwneud ag annog pawb yn yr ystod oedran 14 i 19 i gyflawni hyd eithaf eu gallu, ac i ehangu cyfleoedd yng Nghymru o ganlyniad i’r newidiadau hyn, sydd yn derbyn cefnogaeth eang.

Mick Bates spoken in English p. 45

Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 45

I welcome this statement, because I value the open and consensual process that was undertaken to arrive at this agenda. We must carefully monitor this to ensure that the evaluation is robust enough. However, it is good practice for all.

Croesawaf y datganiad hwn, oherwydd gwerthfawrogaf y broses agored a chydsyniol yr ymgymerwyd â hi i lunio’r agenda hon. Rhaid inni fonitro hyn yn ofalus i sicrhau bod y gwerthusiad yn ddigon cadarn. Fodd bynnag, mae’n arfer da i bawb.

I welcome the focus on the 14 to 19 age range. Many people have referred to how this has come about, in terms of realising the critical decisions that must be taken at that age. I particularly welcome the desire to give parity of esteem to vocational and academic work. We face an increasing problem of the social exclusion of many pupils in schools, especially young males. They have been excluded by this targeted and testing process, which discourages them from pursuing an academic style of education. Despite the difficulties of establishing a new system like a baccalaureate, of which we are all of aware, I welcome this as a first step in a direction that I guarantee will be beneficial to all young people between the ages of 14 and 19.

Croesawaf y canolbwyntio ar yr ystod oedran 14 i 19. Cyfeiriodd llawer at sut y daeth hyn i fod, o ran gwireddu’r penderfyniadau tyngedfennol y mae’n rhaid eu gwneud yn yr oed hwnnw. Croesawaf yn arbennig yr awydd i roi cydraddoldeb i waith galwedigaethol ac academaidd. Wynebwn broblem gynyddol gyda llawer o blant yn ein hysgolion yn cael eu hallgáu’n gymdeithasol, yn enwedig bechgyn ifanc. Cawsant eu hallgáu gan y broses hon o dargedau a phrofion, sy’n eu hannog i beidio â dilyn addysg academaidd. Er gwaethaf yr anawsterau o sefydlu system newydd fel y fagloriaeth, yr ydym i gyd yn ymwybodol iawn ohoni, croesawaf hyn fel cam cyntaf i gyfeiriad yr wyf yn eich sicrhau a fydd yn fuddiol i bob person ifanc rhwng 14 a 19 oed.

We also need to examine how we can help implement the learning coach principle. A few weeks ago, I launched a project called Oasis, which is an advice shop in schools, run by pupils. We need to use pupils in schools and allow them to become learning coaches for their peers. The children who were part of Oasis were trained to open their advice shop and give advice. It is important that the peer group functions in an advisory capacity, which I hope that you would encourage, Minister.

Mae angen inni hefyd edrych ar sut y gallwn ni helpu i weithredu’r egwyddor o hyfforddwr dysgu. Rai wythnosau yn ôl, lansiais brosiect a elwir yn Oasis, sef siop gynghori mewn ysgolion, a weithredir gan y disgyblion. Mae angen inni ddefnyddio disgyblion mewn ysgolion i fod yn hyfforddwyr dysgu i’w cymheiriaid. Hyfforddwyd y plant oedd yn rhan o Oasis i agor eu siop gynghori a rhoi cyngor. Mae’n bwysig bod y grŵp cymheiriaid yn gweithredu mewn swyddogaeth ymgynghorol, a gobeithiaf y byddwch yn annog hynny, Weinidog.

Young people’s partnerships are an important part of this process. I am not sure how many authorities have established them yet, and I would be grateful if the Minister could tell me about that. One main concern regarding establishing them is ensuring that we have a true partnership approach with regard to the young people who must be members of them. I hope that this consultation process has found honest ways of ensuring that those who attend those partnerships can have a voice—and I think it was Jonathan who made the valuable point that people attend so many meetings that they cannot find the time to get on with the job. Being part of a partnership is a valuable experience for young people. I have met some headteachers—and I have mentioned this before—who feel that key stages 3 and 4 are being neglected. In implementing the partnerships, it is critical that professionals and teachers work alongside young people in true partnership. Sometimes, when we undertake wide consultation, we tend to miss out the professionals, the very people who deliver at the rock face. I make a plea for teachers to be central to this, along with learners.

Mae partneriaethau pobl ifanc yn rhan bwysig o’r broses hon. Nid wyf yn siŵr faint o awdurdodau sydd wedi eu sefydlu hyd yn hyn, a byddwn yn ddiolchgar pe bai’r Gweinidog yn gallu dweud wrthyf am hynny. Un pryder mawr ynglŷn â’u sefydlu yw sicrhau bod gennym ymagwedd bartneriaeth wirioneddol o ran y bobl ifanc y mae’n rhaid iddynt fod yn aelodau ohonynt. Gobeithiaf fod y broses ymgynghori hon wedi dod o hyd i ffyrdd gonest o sicrhau bod y rheini sy’n mynychu’r partneriaethau hynny yn cael eu clywed—ac yr wyf yn credu mai Jonathan wnaeth y pwynt gwerthfawr bod pobl yn mynychu cynifer o gyfarfodydd fel na allant gael amser i fwrw ymlaen â’r gwaith. Mae bod yn rhan o bartneriaeth yn brofiad gwerthfawr i bobl ifanc. Yr wyf wedi cyfarfod â rhai penaethiaid—ac yr wyf wedi sôn am hyn o’r blaen—sy’n teimlo bod cyfnodau allweddol 3 a 4 yn cael eu hesgeuluso. Wrth roi’r partneriaethau ar waith, mae’n hanfodol bod gweithwyr proffesiynol ac athrawon yn gweithio ochr yn ochr â phobl ifanc mewn partneriaeth wirioneddol. Weithiau, pan gynhaliwn ymgynghoriad eang, tueddwn i anwybyddu’r gweithwyr proffesiynol, yr union bobl sy’n cyflwyno hyn ar lawr gwlad. Apeliaf i athrawon ynghyd â dysgwyr fod yn ganolog i hyn.

The funding must be available to implement this. Reading this document is similar to reading all the details of the document on tackling teachers’ workload—I forget how many sections that has. In a small school, it is almost impossible for a headteacher not to have to get involved in collecting money, placing posters on the wall and so on. The funding must be provided to meet the standards that we are setting. I hope that the Minister can assure us that all the great desires shown here will be adequately funded.

Rhaid i’r arian fod ar gael i roi hyn ar waith. Mae darllen y ddogfen hon yn debyg i ddarllen holl fanylion y ddogfen ar fynd i’r afael â baich gwaith athrawon—nid wyf yn cofio sawl adran sydd yn honno. Mewn ysgol fechan, mae bron yn amhosibl i bennaeth osgoi ymwneud â chodi arian, gosod posteri ar y waliau ac yn y blaen. Rhaid darparu’r arian i gwrdd â’r safonau yr ydym yn eu gosod. Gobeithiaf y bydd y Gweinidog yn gallu sicrhau pob un ohonom yr ariennir yr holl ddyheadau a ddangosir yn y fan hon yn ddigonol.

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 46

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 46

I welcome your endorsement of parity of esteem. That is an important UK-wide agenda. Our qualifications will change as a result of that and, therefore, the components of the Welsh baccalaureate will change. It is exciting, as it will deliver parity of esteem for the future.

Croesawaf eich cymeradwyaeth i gydraddoldeb. Mae honno’n agenda bwysig i’r DU gyfan. Bydd ein cymwysterau’n newid o ganlyniad i hynny, a thrwy hynny felly bydd elfennau’r fagloriaeth Gymreig yn newid. Mae’n gyffrous, gan y bydd yn cyflwyno cydraddoldeb ar gyfer y dyfodol.

I took a quick look through the formal consultation responses and, in addition to those whom you would expect to respond, such as organisations that respond on the behalf of others, many schools and individuals also responded: I am pleased about that. Many schools with active vocational programmes told me that they will respond because they want to endorse vocational activity. That means that policy development can continue to be evidence-based because they can—and are—demonstrating the quality of current provision.

Edrychais yn gyflym drwy’r ymatebion ymgynghori ffurfiol ac, yn ychwanegol at y rhai hynny y byddech wedi disgwyl iddynt ymateb, megis sefydliadau sy’n ymateb ar ran eraill, yr oedd llawer o ysgolion ac unigolion wedi ymateb hefyd: yr wyf yn falch o hynny. Dywedodd sawl ysgol sydd â rhaglenni galwedigaethol wrthyf y byddant yn ymateb gan eu bod yn dymuno cymeradwyo gweithgaredd galwedigaethol. Golyga hynny y gall datblygu polisi barhau i fod yn seiliedig ar dystiolaeth oherwydd gallant fod—ac y maent—yn arddangos ansawdd y ddarpariaeth bresennol.

Your points about peer review are important; we picked that up in our dialogue with young people. Assessing and recording common strands in the foundation stage and ‘Learning Country: Learning Pathways 14-19’ are about how children and young people should be involved in planning and reviewing their own learning: for example, how to develop a portfolio of experiences and skills with the learner, and how progress can be at the best pace for each learner.

Mae eich pwyntiau am adolygiad cymheiriaid yn rhai pwysig; daeth hynny i’r amlwg yn ein sgyrsiau gyda phobl ifanc. Mae asesu a chofnodi elfennau cyffredin yn y cam sylfaen ac yn ‘Y Wlad sy’n Dysgu: Llwybrau Dysgu 14-19’ yn ymwneud â sut y dylai plant a phobl ifanc gymryd rhan mewn cynllunio ac adolygu eu dysgu eu hunain: er enghraifft, sut i ddatblygu portffolio o brofiadau a sgiliau gyda’r dysgwr, a sut y gellir datblygu ar y cyflymder gorau i bob dysgwr unigol.

Last night, I visited a school in the Rhondda, and the headteacher told me that the aspect of our proposals that he liked the most was that the school will no longer have to be rigid about year groups. I pointed out that that is not even the case now because, for example, many schools enter children for qualifications at varying times. There are many ways to use the good practice that is being demonstrated in schools. The headteacher also identified the value of having teachers who work in both the primary and secondary sectors. We currently only have a few such teachers in Wales, but I imagine that we will have more following these proposals, particularly as we take forward our transition agenda.

Neithiwr, ymwelais ag ysgol yn y Rhondda a dywedodd y pennaeth wrthyf mai’r agwedd ar ein cynigion a hoffai orau oedd na fyddai disgwyl i’r ysgol fod yn anhyblyg ynglŷn â grwpiau blwyddyn mwyach. Nodais nad dyna’r sefyllfa hyd yn oed yn awr oherwydd, er enghraifft, bod llawer o ysgolion yn cyflwyno enwau plant ar gyfer cymwysterau ar adegau amrywiol. Mae llawer o ffyrdd i ddefnyddio’r arferion da a welir mewn ysgolion. Nododd y pennaeth hefyd werth cael athrawon sy’n gweithio yn y sectorau cynradd ac uwchradd. Ar hyn o bryd dim ond ychydig o athrawon o’r fath sydd gennym yng Nghymru, ond rhagwelaf y bydd rhagor gennym yn dilyn y cynigion hyn, yn arbennig wrth inni ddatblygu ein hagenda drosiannol.

External quality assurance for these changes is needed, and Estyn will produce the area inspection proposals for 14 to 19-year-olds, as that is now within its agenda. The multi-agency partnerships will be responsible for supporting quality assurance mechanisms for individual providers; it is important that providers sign up to that. In terms of the new ways of working with children and young people, we need to ensure comprehensive training opportunities for providers, which must be part of our action plan.

Mae angen sicrwydd ansawdd allanol ar gyfer y newidiadau hyn, a bydd Estyn yn cynhyrchu y cynigion arolygiadau ardal ar gyfer y rhai rhwng 14 a 19 oed gan fod hynny bellach o fewn ei agenda. Bydd y partneriaethau aml-asiantaeth yn gyfrifol am gefnogi dulliau sicrwydd ansawdd ar gyfer darparwyr unigol; mae’n bwysig bod darparwyr yn ymrwymo i hynny. O ran y ffyrdd newydd o weithio gyda phlant a phobl ifanc, mae angen inni sicrhau cyfleodd hyfforddi cynhwysfawr ar gyfer darparwyr; mae’n rhaid i hynny fod yn rhan o’n cynllun gweithredu.

I am grateful for all your comments. If we develop this at the right pace, and ensure that people work with us, it will fit into all other aspects of our agenda. That agenda is about community dimension schooling, opening opportunities for schools as learning resources, and building partnerships between schools, colleges and other providers. That is about ensuring the best possible education and training system for Wales.

Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar ichi am eich holl sylwadau. Os datblygwn hyn ar y cyflymdra cywir, a sicrhau bod pobl yn cydweithio gyda ni, bydd yn cydweddu â phob agwedd arall ar ein hagenda. Mae’r agenda honno yn ymwneud ag addysgu dimensiwn cymunedol, datblygu cyfleoedd ar gyfer ysgolion fel adnoddau dysgu, ac adeiladu partneriaethau rhwng ysgolion, colegau a darparwyr eraill. Dyna sut y gallwn sicrhau’r system addysg a hyfforddiant orau bosibl ar gyfer Cymru.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 48

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 48

I apologise to the Minister, but we have run out of time for this statement.

Ymddiheuraf i’r Gweinidog, ond mae ein hamser ar gyfer y datganiad hwn ar ben.

Pwyntiau o Drefn

Points of Order

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 48

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 48

Cyn galw Ieuan Wyn Jones ar bwynt o drefn, hysbysaf Aelodau fod y diffyg o ran technoleg gwybodaeth a chyfathrebu wedi’i gywiro o fewn yr ychydig funudau diwethaf. Dylwn fod wedi cyhoeddi hynny ynghynt ond anghofiais oherwydd bod y drafodaeth mor danbaid.

Before I call Ieuan Wyn Jones on a point of order, I inform Members that the glitch in terms of information and communications technology has been rectified in the last few minutes. I should have announced that earlier but I forgot as the discussion was so heated.

Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in English p. 48

Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 48

Point of order. This arises from the reply that the First Minister gave to me yesterday when I questioned him about granting a £4 million contract to Avanti in respect of the Pop Factory in the Rhondda. I had given the First Minister prior notice of my intention to raise this point of order and I regret that he is not in the Chamber to hear it. The First Minister said in reply to my question:

Pwynt o drefn. Cyfyd hwn o’r ateb a roddwyd imi gan y Prif Weinidog ddoe pan ofynnais iddo am roi contract £4 miliwn i gwmni Avanti ar gyfer y Ffatri Bop yn y Rhondda. Yr oeddwn wedi rhoi rhybudd ymlaen llaw i’r Prif Weinidog o’m bwriad i godi’r pwynt hwn o drefn ac yr wyf yn gresynu nad yw yn y Siambr i’w glywed. Dywedodd y Prif Weinidog mewn ateb i’m cwestiwn:

‘Regarding the repayment of sums by the Avanti group and the Pop Factory, all that has happened is that Rhondda Cynon Taf County Borough Council changed its mind about how it was going to redevelop the former Pioneer supermarket, next to the Pop Factory…. As a result of the council’s decision, it was not possible to proceed with the idea of putting the music café into the former Pioneer store. Therefore, the money allocated for that purpose has not been spent. Arrangements are now being made by the Pop Factory and ELWa to repay the money. It is as simple as that.’

‘Ynghylch ad-dalu’r arian gan grŵp Avanti a’r Ffatri Bop, y cwbl a ddigwyddodd oedd bod Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Rhondda Cynon Taf wedi ailfeddwl am y modd yr oedd am ailddatblygu cyn archfarchnad Pioneer, sydd wrth ochr y Ffatri Bop…. O ganlyniad i benderfyniad y cyngor, nid oedd modd mynd ymlaen â’r syniad o roi’r caffi cerddoriaeth yng nghyn siop Pioneer. Gan hynny, ni wariwyd yr arian a neilltuwyd i’r pwrpas hwnnw. Gwneir trefniadau’n awr gan y Ffatri Bop ac ELWa i ad-dalu’r arian. Mae cyn symled â hynny.’

I believe that the First Minister may have inadvertently misled the Assembly. I have now received copies of the minutes of meetings between all the parties involved in this contract—namely Avanti Media Group Ltd, Rhondda Cynon Taf County Borough Council, the Welsh Development Agency, CM International UK Ltd and ELWa. Those minutes make it clear that there is no contact or arrangement between the contract with Avanti and Rhondda Cynon Taf council. The minutes state that

Credaf fod y Prif Weinidog wedi camarwain y Cynulliad yn anfwriadol o bosibl. Yr wyf bellach wedi cael copïau o gofnodion cyfarfodydd rhwng yr holl bartïon oedd yn gysylltiedig â’r contract hwn—sef Avanti Media Group Cyf, Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Rhondda Cynon Taf, Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru, CM International UK Ltd ac ELWa. Mae’r cofnodion hynny yn ei gwneud yn amlwg nad oes cyswllt na threfniant rhwng y contract gydag Avanti a chyngor Rhondda Cynon Taf. Noda’r cofnodion

‘ELWa felt it necessary to clarify that their contractual arrangement with Avanti Media Group was different to the Pop Factory Café project.’

Teimlai ELWa bod angen iddynt egluro bod eu trefniant cytundebol gydag Avanti Media Group yn wahanol i brosiect Caffi’r Ffatri Bop.

The other minutes, of a meeting held on 3 February—

Cofnodion eraill, o gyfarfod a gynhaliwyd ar 3 Chwefror—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 49

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 49

Order. This is getting a little bit long, and it is not a point of order for me. I would be grateful if the leader of the opposition could conclude his point of order so that I can respond to it.

Trefn. Mae hwn yn mynd braidd yn faith, ac nid yw’n bwynt o drefn i mi. Byddwn yn ddiolchgar pe bai arweinydd yr wrthblaid yn dirwyn ei bwynt o drefn i ben er mwyn i mi allu ymateb iddo.

Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in English p. 49

Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 49

The point of order is that, if any Member, but particularly the First Minister, makes an allegation in the Chamber and then receives evidence proving that he may have inadvertently misled the Assembly, is it not appropriate that he apologise to the Assembly and request that the Record of Proceedings be changed?

Y pwynt o drefn yw, os oes unrhyw Aelod, ond yn arbennig y Prif Weinidog, yn gwneud cyhuddiad yn y Siambr ac yna’n derbyn tystiolaeth sy’n profi ei fod wedi camarwain y Cynulliad yn anfwriadol, onid yw hi’n briodol iddo ymddiheuro i’r Cynulliad a gofyn i Gofnod y Trafodion gael ei newid?

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 49

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 49

The First Minister is not present in the Chamber. He will be able to read the Record and will have an opportunity to return to this issue, if he so wishes, when he answers questions in Plenary a week on Tuesday.

Nid yw’r Prif Weinidog yn bresennol yn y Siambr. Bydd yn gallu darllen y Cofnod, a chael cyfle i ddychwelyd at y pwnc hwn, os dymuna, pan fydd yn ateb cwestiynau yn y Cyfarfod Llawn wythnos i ddydd Mawrth.

Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in English p. 49

Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 49

Further to that point of order, in view of the First Minister’s absence, I wish to let the Assembly know that I will place a copy of these minutes in the Assembly Library so that all Members can read them.

Ymhellach i’r pwynt hwnnw o drefn, o ystyried absenoldeb y Prif Weinidog carwn roi gwybod i’r Cynulliad y byddaf yn rhoi copi o’r cofnodion hyn yn Llyfrgell y Cynulliad fel y gall pob Aelod eu darllen.

David Davies spoken in English p. 49

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 49

Point of order. I was shocked and angry to hear our head of state described as a parasite in yesterday’s Plenary. That is grossly unfair, as our head of state is extremely hard-working and generates a vast amount of money for this country. Above all, she has a value beyond any monetary figure as her presence ensures a stable constitution and acts as a powerful counterbalance to Prime Ministers who have difficulty in restraining their authoritarian instincts. In the vernacular, the term ‘parasite’ refers to a person or a group of people whose presence is unexpected and unwelcome and who greedily live off their host, taking everything on offer while offering nothing in return. There may well be people in this country at the moment to whom that description could be applied, but our head of state is not one of them. Before I offer alternative suggestions, I would like to know whether the word is in order.

Pwynt o drefn. Yr oeddwn wedi fy syfrdanu ac yn ddig i glywed pennaeth y wladwriaeth yn cael ei disgrifio fel paraseit yn y Cyfarfod Llawn ddoe. Mae hynny’n annheg iawn gan fod pennaeth ein gwladwriaeth yn gweithio’n arbennig o galed ac yn creu swm sylweddol o arian i’r wlad hon. Yn anad dim mae iddi werth y tu hwnt i unrhyw swm o arian gan fod ei phresenoldeb yn gwarantu cyfansoddiad sefydlog ac mae’n gweithredu fel gwrthbwynt grymus i Brif Weinidogion sy’n ei chael yn anodd i ffrwyno’u greddf awdurdodaidd. Yn yr iaith lafar, dynoda’r term ‘paraseit’ berson neu grŵp o bobl y mae eu presenoldeb yn annisgwyl ac nad oes croeso iddo, ac sydd yn byw’n farus oddi ar y sawl sy’n eu cynnal, gan gymryd popeth a gynigir ond heb gynnig dim yn ôl. Efallai fod pobl yn y wlad hon ar hyn o bryd y mae’r disgrifiad hwnnw’n gweddu iddynt, ond nid yw pennaeth ein gwladwriaeth yn un ohonynt. Cyn imi gynnig awgrymiadau amgen hoffwn wybod a yw’r gair mewn trefn.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 50

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 50

I am grateful for prior notice of this point of order, which has enabled me to look at a draft of the Record of Proceedings. What was said yesterday was discourteous according to our rules of order. I should have intervened and drawn the Member’s attention to it at the time and given him an opportunity to withdraw the remark. It is not appropriate for the National Assembly for Wales to describe anyone, particularly a head of state, who has visited us on at least two occasions, in words that we would not wish to hear applied to ourselves. [ASSEMBLY MEMBERS: ‘Hear, hear.’]

Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am gael rhybudd ymlaen llaw o’r pwynt o drefn hwn, sydd wedi fy ngalluogi i edrych ar ddrafft o Gofnod y Trafodion. Yr oedd yr hyn a ddywedwyd ddoe yn anghwrtais yn ôl ein rheolau trefn. Dylaswn fod wedi ymyrryd a thynnu sylw’r Aelod ato ar y pryd, a rhoi’r cyfle iddo dynnu ei sylw yn ôl. Nid yw’n briodol i Gynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru ddisgrifio unrhyw un, yn arbennig pennaeth gwladwriaeth, sydd wedi ymweld â ni ar o leiaf ddau achlysur, â geiriau na fyddem ni yn hoffi iddynt gael eu defnyddio amdanom ni’n hunain. [AELODAU’R CYNULLIAD: ‘Clywch, clywch.’]

Cymeradwyo Cyllid Llywodraeth Leol (Cymru) Adroddiad Grant Arbennig (Rhif 13) (Cymru) 2002

Approval of the Local Government Finance (Wales) Special Grant Report (No. 13) (Wales) 2002

Jane Davidson The Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning spoken in English p. 50

Jane Davidson Y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 50

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Jane Davidson The Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning (continued) spoken in English p. 51

Jane Davidson Y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 51

I am pleased to bring forward this special grant report for the Assembly’s approval. It distributes an additional £4.76 million to local education authorities in Wales for improving standards in schools. The funding is made up of two distinct elements: £3.5 million to develop and support innovative ways of delivering education in rural settings and in small schools, and £1.26 million to further develop improved pupil information systems. This is the second report with a significant focus on supporting small and rural schools throughout Wales, as a report last year distributed £2 million for this purpose. I am particularly pleased that we have been able to increase this to £3.5 million for 2003-04.

Mae’n bleser gennyf gyflwyno’r adroddiad grant arbennig hwn i’w gymeradwyo gan y Cynulliad. Mae’n dyrannu £4.76 miliwn ychwanegol i awdurdodau addysg lleol yng Nghymru er mwyn gwella safonau mewn ysgolion. Mae dwy elfen benodol i’r arian: £3.5 miliwn i ddatblygu a chefnogi ffyrdd dyfeisgar o ddarparu addysg mewn lleoliadau gwledig ac ysgolion bach, a £1.26 miliwn i ddatblygu gwell systemau gwybodaeth disgyblion ymhellach. Dyma’r ail adroddiad sy’n canolbwyntio’n sylweddol ar gynorthwyo ysgolion bach a gwledig ledled Cymru, gan i adroddiad y llynedd ddyrannu £2 filiwn i’r diben hwn. Yr wyf yn falch tu hwnt ein bod wedi gallu cynyddu hyn i £3.5 miliwn ar gyfer 2003-04.

LEAs have reported back on how the grant was spent this year, and several interesting projects were funded from it. For example, I visited Ceredigion in October and, in Llandysul, saw the co-operative project, ‘Dolen Ddysgu’, which harnesses information technology and video conferencing to enable four schools to work together. Of the four schools, one has fewer than 20 pupils and another has between 20 and 30. The project has opened up a whole host of opportunities for children who are members of small peer groups, and has offered valuable support for teachers whose classes contain a wide age range of pupils. Although this project began before the grant was allocated, the grant has enabled it to develop. I launched the project’s website during my visit in October.

Mae AALlau wedi adrodd ar y ffordd y gwariwyd y grant ei eleni, ac ariannwyd sawl prosiect diddorol drwyddo. Er enghraifft, ymwelais â Cheredigion ym mis Hydref ac, yn Llandysul, gwelais y prosiect cydweithredol ‘Dolen Ddysgu’, sy’n defnyddio technoleg gwybodaeth a chynadledda fideo i alluogi pedair ysgol i gydweithio. O’r pedair ysgol, mae gan un ohonynt lai nag 20 o ddisgyblion a cheir rhwng 20 a 30 mewn un arall. Mae’r prosiect wedi cynnig llu o gyfleoedd i blant sy’n aelodau o grwpiau bach o gyfoedion, ac wedi bod o gymorth gwerthfawr i athrawon sy’n gofalu am ystod o oedran eang o fewn eu dosbarthiadau. Er i’r prosiect hwn ddechrau cyn i’r grant gael ei ddyrannu, mae’r grant wedi ei alluogi i ddatblygu. Lansiais wefan y prosiect yn ystod fy ymweliad ym mis Hydref.

The funding has also enabled Powys and Anglesey LEAs to support clusters of two primary schools each. Gwynedd LEA invests it in specified curriculum area workers to provide direct help to its smallest schools, and Pembrokeshire and Carmarthenshire LEAs invest it in improving the information and communications technology capacity of their small schools. Denbighshire LEA has formed six clusters of small schools, which work together on a broad range of initiatives, including improving monitoring, self-evaluation, peer-group working between schools and extra-curricula and sporting activities. Several LEAs have planned to deliver innovative projects during the next year or have invited schools to come forward with proposals. Approximately half of the LEAs have directed funding towards schools for improving community access, and more than half have used grants to relieve burdens on headteachers that teach. I am delighted that most of the grant has been given to schools. As I hoped, LEAs have been able to use the grant to respond to local circumstances.

Mae’r arian hefyd wedi galluogi AALlau Powys ac Ynys Môn i gynorthwyo clystyrau o ddwy ysgol gynradd yr un. Mae AALl Gwynedd yn ei fuddsoddi mewn gweithwyr ardal cwricwlwm penodol i ddarparu cymorth uniongyrchol i’w ysgolion lleiaf, ac mae AALlau Sir Benfro a Sir Gaerfyrddin yn ei fuddsoddi mewn gwella capasiti technoleg gwybodaeth a chyfathrebu eu hysgolion bach. Mae AALl Sir Ddinbych wedi ffurfio chwe chlwstwr o ysgolion bach, sy’n cydweithio ar ystod eang o fentrau, gan gynnwys gwella gwaith monitro, hunan-werthuso, gwaith grŵp cyfoedion rhwng ysgolion a gweithgareddau all-gwricwlaidd a chwaraeon. Mae sawl AALl wedi cynllunio i ddarparu prosiectau dyfeisgar yn ystod y flwyddyn nesaf neu wedi gwahodd ysgolion i gynnig argymhellion. Mae oddeutu hanner yr AALlau wedi cyfeirio cyllid i ysgolion i wella mynediad y gymuned, ac mae mwy na’u hanner wedi defnyddio grantiau i ysgafnhau baich penaethiaid sy’n addysgu. Yr wyf yn falch iawn bod y rhan fwyaf o’r grant wedi cael ei roi i ysgolion. Fel yr oeddwn wedi gobeithio, mae’r AALlau wedi gallu defnyddio’r grant i ymateb i amgylchiadau lleol.

LEAs have also responded flexibly to local circumstances with the second element of the grant, which is used to support their schools in improving pupil information systems. They have utilised the grant to improve the standard of school information management systems, to provide additional training and support and to fund additional administrative time in schools. Initial feedback from those who participated in the new pupil-level census this January is positive, and we expect the vast majority of secondary schools, and over 40 per cent of our primary schools, to have successfully completed the new census this year. Alongside the new census, several other new initiatives are being developed, aimed at reducing bureaucratic burdens and supporting teaching and learning by improving the flow and extending the use of pupil information. This element of the grant, which is distributed proportionately according to the number of schools, will help LEAs continue to support their schools in making the transition to the pupil-level census, which we expect all maintained schools to complete in January 2004.

Mae AALlau hefyd wedi ymateb yn hyblyg i amgylchiadau lleol gydag ail elfen y grant, a gaiff ei ddefnyddio i gynorthwyo eu hysgolion i wella systemau gwybodaeth disgyblion. Maent wedi defnyddio’r grant i wella safon systemau rheoli gwybodaeth ysgolion, darparu hyfforddiant a chymorth ychwanegol ac ariannu amser gweinyddol ychwanegol mewn ysgolion. Mae’r adborth cychwynnol gan y rhai a gyfranogodd yn y cyfrifiad lefel disgyblion newydd ym mis Ionawr yn gadarnhaol, a disgwyliwn i fwyafrif helaeth yr ysgolion uwchradd, a thros 40 y cant o’n hysgolion cynradd, gwblhau’r cyfrifiad newydd yn llwyddiannus eleni. Ynghyd â’r cyfrifiad newydd, caiff sawl menter newydd arall eu datblygu, wedi eu hanelu at leihau’r baich biwrocrataidd a chynorthwyo addysgu a dysgu drwy wella’r llif o wybodaeth am ddisgyblion ac ehangu’r defnydd ohoni. Bydd yr elfen hon o’r grant, a gaiff ei dyrannu’n gymesur yn unol â nifer yr ysgolion, yn helpu AALlau i barhau i gefnogi eu hysgolion wrth drawsnewid i’r cyfrifiad lefel disgyblion y disgwyliwn i bob ysgol a gynhelir ei gwblhau ym mis Ionawr 2004.

I commend this report to you and ask for your confirmation that we should again support initiatives that will raise standards in our schools, and offer particular help to the 30 per cent of schools in Wales that are small, or rural, or both.

Cymeradwyaf yr adroddiad hwn ichi gan ofyn am eich cadarnhad y dylem unwaith eto gefnogi mentrau a fydd yn codi safonau yn ein hysgolion, a rhoi cymorth arbennig i’r 30 y cant o ysgolion Cymru sy’n ysgolion bach, neu wledig, neu’r ddau.

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 52

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52

We welcome the increase in this year’s grant. In last year’s corresponding grant announcement, you said that you would issue revised guidelines to LEAs that would emphasise the fact that they must take into account schools’ roles in the local community before proposing a rural school closure. You have touched on the community role of schools to some extent, but how has that revised guidance been received and what practical difference has it made to the way in which proposals to close rural schools are dealt with? To what extent are economic and administrative considerations, rather than the quality of the education, a factor in the closure of rural schools?

Croesawn y cynnydd yn y grant eleni. Wrth gyhoeddi’r grant cyfatebol y llynedd, dywedasoch y byddech yn cyflwyno canllawiau diwygiedig i AALlau a fyddai’n amlinellu’r ffaith fod yn rhaid iddynt gymryd i ystyriaeth rôl ysgolion yn y gymuned leol cyn argymell cau ysgol wledig. Cyfeiriasoch at rôl gymunedol yr ysgolion i ryw raddau, ond faint o groeso a gafodd y canllawiau diwygiedig hynny a pha newid ymarferol y mae wedi ei wneud i’r ffordd yr ymdrinnir ag argymhellion i gau ysgolion gwledig? I ba raddau y mae ystyriaethau economaidd a gweinyddol, yn hytrach nag ansawdd yr addysg, yn ffactor wrth gau ysgolion gwledig?

I welcome the fact that the criteria for the use of this grant remain broad and that it enables local authorities to respond to local needs. As you pointed out, many communities need community facilities to be developed, and one of the grant’s purposes is to increase the community use of school buildings. You have spoken of increased facilities within schools, but do you have any information on the take-up of this grant for converting a school into a true community facility? Finally, did local authorities encounter any problems in meeting the conditions for the payment of this grant?

Croesawaf y ffaith fod y meini prawf ar gyfer defnyddio’r grant hwn yn parhau i fod yn rhai eang a’i fod yn galluogi awdurdodau lleol i ymateb i anghenion lleol. Fel y nodasoch, mae angen datblygu cyfleusterau cymunedol mewn sawl cymuned, ac un o ddibenion y grant yw cynyddu’r defnydd cymunedol o adeiladau ysgolion. Soniasoch am gynyddu cyfleusterau o fewn ysgolion, ond a oes gennych unrhyw wybodaeth am y defnydd o’r grant hwn ar gyfer troi ysgol yn gyfleuster cymunedol gwirioneddol? Yn olaf, a ddaeth awdurdodau lleol ar draws unrhyw broblemau o ran cwrdd ag amodau talu’r grant hwn?

Mick Bates spoken in English p. 53

Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 53

Thank you for this announcement, Minister, and the increase in budget. I share your pleasure in seeing the good examples of how this money was used throughout Wales, particularly in Ceredigion. On the partnership agreement, which established this policy, and the difficulties in distributing the funding—I made this point last time, and I reiterate it—this is a small and rural schools policy, and yet Cardiff and Swansea LEAs receive £414,000 of this grant between them, whereas Powys, my authority, which covers approximately a quarter of Wales, receives only £375,000. We must clarify the aims and objectives so that we send out a positive message to support our rhetoric on sustaining communities and on the school being the heart of those communities. We must consider the evaluation of this expenditure and ensure that we adjust the formula and target it towards the small rural schools, which, as we know, are more expensive to run. Therefore, I have reservations in accepting this report. It is critical to keep these schools open, as they are often located in the heartland of Welsh culture. If certain schools, which I know well, in such areas were to close, it would be more difficult to retain our great heritage in many parts of Wales.

Diolch ichi am y cyhoeddiad hwn, Weinidog, a’r cynnydd yn y gyllideb. Rhannaf eich balchder wrth weld yr enghreifftiau da o sut y defnyddiwyd yr arian hwn ledled Cymru, yn arbennig yng Ngheredigion. O ran y cytundeb partneriaeth, a sefydlodd y polisi hwn, a’r anawsterau wrth ddyrannu’r cyllid––gwneuthum y pwynt hwn y tro diwethaf, ac fe’i hailadroddaf––polisi ysgolion bach a gwledig yw hwn, ond eto, mae AALlau Caerdydd ac Abertawe yn cael £414,000 o’r grant hwn rhyngddynt, ond dim ond £375,000 a gaiff Powys, yr awdurdod a gynrychiolaf i, sy’n cwmpasu tua chwarter Cymru. Rhaid inni fod yn glir o ran y nodau a’r amcanion fel ein bod yn anfon neges gadarnhaol i gefnogi ein rhethreg ar gynnal cymunedau ac ar sicrhau bod yr ysgol yn ganolbwynt i’r cymunedau hynny. Rhaid inni ystyried gwerthusiad y gwariant hwn a sicrhau ein bod yn addasu’r fformiwla a’i dargedu i’r ysgolion bach gwledig, sydd, fel y gwyddom, yn ddrytach i’w cadw. Felly, mae gennyf amheuon ynglŷn â derbyn yr adroddiad hwn. Mae’n hanfodol cadw’r ysgolion hyn ar agor, gan eu bod yn aml yng nghadarnleoedd diwylliant Cymru. Pe bai rhai ysgolion yr wyf yn gyfarwydd iawn â hwy yn yr ardaloedd hyn yn cau, byddai’n fwy anodd cadw ein hetifeddiaeth wych mewn sawl rhan o Gymru.

I have not been able to access an evaluation of this grant. Is there a full evaluation of the first year that all Members could access? The Welsh Liberal Democrats welcome the principle of the grant, but I hope, next time around, that we can distribute the money more directly to where it is needed.

Ni lwyddais i gael gafael ar werthusiad o’r grant hwn. A oes gwerthusiad llawn o’r flwyddyn gyntaf y gallai’r holl Aelodau ei weld? Mae Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru’n croesawu egwyddor y grant, ond yr wyf yn gobeithio, y tro nesaf, y gallwn ddyrannu’r arian yn fwy uniongyrchol i’r lle mae ei angen.

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 54

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 54

We welcome this special grant report and the Minister’s announcement of the funding. In response to Mick Bates, he may have left his calculator at home or he must be looking at the wrong figures, because Powys LEA receives £200,000 more than Cardiff LEA. I am not sure which calculator he is using, or even if he remembered to bring it to work today. Powys LEA receives £200,000 more than Cardiff LEA, and I suspect that that is because Powys has a higher proportion of rural small schools, and no doubt the Minister will refer to that in her response.

Croesawn yr adroddiad grant arbennig hwn a chyhoeddiad y Gweinidog am y cyllid. Mewn ymateb i Mick Bates, efallai iddo adael ei gyfrifiannell gartref neu efallai iddo edrych ar y ffigurau anghywir, gan fod AALl Powys yn cael £200,000 yn fwy nag AALl Caerdydd. Ni wn pa gyfrifiannell y mae’n ei defnyddio, neu hyd yn oed a yw wedi cofio dod â hi i’r gwaith heddiw. Mae AALl Powys yn cael £200,000 yn fwy nag AALl Caerdydd, a thybiaf mai oherwydd bod gan Powys gyfran uwch o ysgolion bach gwledig y mae hynny, ac mae’n debyg y bydd y Gweinidog yn cyfeirio at hynny yn ei hymateb.

David Melding spoken in English p. 54

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 54

Has the Member noticed that in some groups represented in this Assembly, the standard of educational attainment among researchers is appalling?

A sylweddolodd yr Aelod bod safon cyrhaeddiad addysgol ymhlith ymchwilwyr rhai grwpiau a gaiff eu cynrychioli yn y Cynulliad hwn yn warthus?

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 54

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 54

I suspect that some people need to go back to school—my colleague has a point. While we support the way in which this money is being distributed, why is it necessary for money to be split into two categories? If there are general requirements about the way in which the money is spent, surely it would be easier to provide a lump sum to each local authority rather than split it in this way? I can understand why it has been done, but is it necessary where local authorities may have better mechanisms and means for delivering what you want them to achieve?

Credaf fod angen i rai pobl fynd yn ôl i’r ysgol––mae fy nghyd-Aelod yn gywir. Er inni gefnogi’r ffordd y caiff yr arian hwn ei ddyrannu, pam bod angen rhannu’r arian yn ddau gategori? Os oes gofynion cyffredinol am y ffordd y caiff yr arian ei wario, oni fyddai’n haws rhoi swm penodol i bob awdurdod lleol yn hytrach na’i rannu fel hyn? Gallaf ddeall pam y gwnaethpwyd hyn, ond a yw’n angenrheidiol pan mae’n bosibl bod gan awdurdodau lleol well dulliau a ffyrdd o ddarparu’r hyn yr ydych am iddynt ei gyflawni?

In terms of how this money will be allocated to schools, what proportion of it do you anticipate being held by local education authorities? Annex C, for example, refers to authorities directing the sums indicated towards assisting schools; it does not say that the money is being spent specifically for schools, without the LEA retaining a certain proportion so that it can deliver what you need delivering. Can you indicate what proportion local authorities will retain?

O ran y ffordd y caiff yr arian hwn ei ddyrannu i ysgolion, pa gyfran ohono y rhagwelwch a gaiff ei gadw gan awdurdodau addysg lleol? Cyfeiria Atodiad C, er enghraifft, at awdurdodau yn cyfeirio’r arian a nodir tuag at gynorthwyo ysgolion; ni ddywed fod yr arian yn cael ei wario yn benodol ar ysgolion, heb i’r AALl gadw cyfran arbennig fel y gall ddarparu yr hyn yr ydych am ei ddarparu. A allwch nodi pa gyfran y bydd awdurdodau lleol yn ei chadw?

Finally, in terms of small schools facing an uncertain future, we want a presumption against the closure of small rural schools. The only part of Mick Bates’s contribution that I agreed with was that small schools provide a valuable contribution to the local community; they are more than just a local school. We all accept that small schools cost more, but we must recognise that, in investing in small or rural schools, we are investing in more than children’s education.

Yn olaf, o ran ysgolion bach sy’n wynebu dyfodol ansicr, hoffem gael rhagdybiaeth yn erbyn cau ysgolion bach gwledig. Yr unig ran o gyfraniad Mick Bates y cytunais ag ef oedd bod ysgolion bach yn gwneud cyfraniad gwerthfawr i’r gymuned leol; maent yn fwy na dim ond ysgol leol. Yr ydym i gyd yn derbyn bod ysgolion bach yn costio mwy, ond rhaid inni gydnabod ein bod, wrth fuddsoddi mewn ysgolion bach neu wledig, yn buddsoddi mewn mwy nag addysg plant.

Brian Gibbons spoken in English p. 55

Brian Gibbons siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 55

There is a sense of déjà vu about this debate. Considerable emphasis has been placed on small rural schools, as though the only schools under threat are those in archetypal rural areas. Several Valley communities in my constituency have small schools that are under equal threat of closure because of the declining population and the levels of social and economic deprivation in those communities. It would be invidious if this grant were promoted as a special provision for rural schools in the way that Mick Bates tried to present it. Will the Minister confirm that my understanding is correct and that small schools in this context may be located in industrial parts of Wales? To present this as a problem affecting rural schools in the pastoral sense is confusing. My local authority has received a large contribution from this fund, which is designed to assist all small schools in Wales unless they are located in a large conurbation.

Mae teimlad o déjà vu ynghylch y ddadl hon. Rhoddwyd cryn bwyslais ar ysgolion bach gwledig, gan roi’r argraff mai’r unig ysgolion sydd o dan fygythiad yw’r rhai yn yr ardaloedd gwledig nodweddiadol. Ceir ysgolion bach mewn sawl cymuned yn y Cymoedd yn fy etholaeth sy’n wynebu yr un bygythiad o gael eu cau oherwydd y gostyngiad yn y boblogaeth a lefelau amddifadedd cymdeithasol ac economaidd y cymunedau hynny. Byddai’n dramgwyddus pe câi’r grant hwn ei hyrwyddo fel darpariaeth arbennig ar gyfer ysgolion gwledig yn y ffordd y ceisiodd Mick Bates ei gyflwyno. A wnaiff y Gweinidog gadarnhau bod fy nealltwriaeth yn gywir ac y gall ysgolion bach o fewn y cyd-destun hwn fod wedi eu lleoli mewn rhannau diwydiannol o Gymru? Mae cyflwyno hyn fel problem sy’n effeithio ar ysgolion gwledig yn yr ystyr bugeiliol yn ddryslyd. Derbyniodd fy awdurdod lleol i gyfraniad mawr o’r gronfa hon, a gynlluniwyd i gynorthwyo pob ysgol fach yng Nghymru os nad ydynt wedi eu lleoli o fewn cytrefiad mawr.

Kirsty Williams spoken in English p. 55

Kirsty Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 55

I welcome the increase in this grant and its continuation. Last year, the doubting Thomases here said that the grant would be a one-off and that we would not see the likes of it again. Therefore, I am grateful that you have announced an increased grant.

Croesawaf y cynnydd yn y grant hwn a’i barhad. Y llynedd, dywedodd yr anghredinwyr yn y fan hyn mai grant unwaith yn unig fyddai hwn ac na fyddem yn gweld ei debyg eto. Felly, yr wyf yn ddiolchgar eich bod wedi cyhoeddi cynnydd yn y grant.

On federation, I am concerned that, while this money is being made available, some authorities may not be using it in the innovative way that one would have liked. I am concerned that the future of some small schools in my constituency is not being underpinned because of the local authority’s reluctance to consider innovative ways of delivering education in a rural setting, through small year groups in schools, with small numbers of staff. Do you intend to issue new guidance to support local authorities and to encourage them to consider federated models—shared headship models—and to use this money in this way if appropriate?

O ran ffederasiwn, wrth gyflwyno’r arian hwn, yr wyf yn bryderus nad yw rhai awdurdodau yn ei ddefnyddio yn y ffordd arleosol y’i bwriadwyd. Yr wyf yn bryderus nad yw dyfodol rhai ysgolion bach yn fy etholaeth i yn cael ei gynnal oherwydd anfodlonrwydd yr awdurdod lleol i ystyried ffyrdd arleosol o ddarparu addysg mewn lleoliad gwledig, drwy grwpiau blwyddyn bach mewn ysgolion, a nifer fach o staff. A fwriadwch gyhoeddi canllawiau newydd i gynorthwyo awdurdodau lleol a’u hannog i ystyried modelau ffederal––modelau rhannu pennaeth––a defnyddio’r arian hwn yn y modd hwn os yw hynny’n briodol?

Jane Davidson The Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning spoken in English p. 56

Jane Davidson Y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 56

I am grateful for Members’ comments. To respond to Janet on school organisation guidelines—I will probably reply to other Members’ points also—we consulted upon them and issued them in July last year, and the guidance emphasises the priority for education provision in rural areas. Therefore, the focus is on access to high-quality education. The guidance placed a greater emphasis than previously on avoiding long journeys and we have encouraged schools to explore alternative ways of working, which include small schools collaborating and sharing resources. At an informal level, that means clustering—you will see several examples of this in how the grant was spent last year—and at a formal level, it means federation, but that would require statutory proposals, so it would take on the normal year role.

Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am sylwadau’r Aelodau. Er mwyn rhoi ateb i Janet ar ganllawiau sefydliadau ysgolion––mae’n bosibl y byddaf yn ymateb i sylwadau Aelodau eraill hefyd––ymgynghorwyd arnynt ac fe’u cyhoeddwyd ym mis Gorffennaf y llynedd, ac mae’r canllawiau’n pwysleisio blaenoriaeth darparu addysg mewn ardaloedd gwledig. Felly, mae’r ffocws ar fynediad i addysg o safon uchel. Yr oedd y canllawiau’n rhoi mwy o bwyslais ar osgoi teithiau hir nag a wnaed yn y gorffennol ac yr ydym wedi annog ysgolion i ymchwilio i ffyrdd eraill o weithio, sy’n cynnwys cydweithio a rhannu adnoddau rhwng ysgolion bach. Ar lefel anffurfiol, golyga hynny glystyrru––gwelwch sawl enghraifft o hyn yn y ffordd y gwariwyd y grant y llynedd––ac ar lefel ffurfiol, mae’n golygu ffedereiddio, ond byddai angen cynigion statudol ar gyfer hynny, felly byddai’n gweithredu yn ôl rôl blwyddyn arferol.

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 56

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 56

Have you clarified what you consider to be an acceptable distance to travel to school?

A ydych wedi egluro’r hyn a ystyriwch yn bellter teithio derbyniol i’r ysgol?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 56

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 56

You may want to go back and read the guidance. Mick understood that the distribution mechanism favours those authorities with particularly large numbers of small and/or rural schools. Those are two separate categories: small schools and rural schools. Therefore, as Brian Gibbons said, it affects authorities that have small schools in the urban environment as well as those that have small schools in rural areas.

Efallai y byddwch am fynd yn ôl a darllen y canllawiau. Deallodd Mick fod y dull dyrannu yn ffafrio’r awdurdodau hynny sydd â nifer fawr o ysgolion bach ac/neu ysgolion gwledig. Mae’r categorïau hynny yn ddau gategori ar wahân: ysgolion bach ac ysgolion gwledig. Felly, fel y dywedodd Brian Gibbons, mae’n effeithio ar awdurdodau sydd ag ysgolion bach yn yr amgylchedd trefol yn ogystal â’r rhai sydd ag ysgolion bach mewn ardaloedd gwledig.

Mick Bates spoken in English p. 57

Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 57

Without going into too much detail, a small school is defined as having 90 pupils, but 50 would be a more appropriate figure in Wales. The last time we had this argument, you kept to the Audit Commission’s figure. It would be far more sensible to proceed with a figure of 50 for Wales. Also, I was correct to refer to the £414,000 available to Cardiff and Swansea—

Heb fanylu gormod, caiff ysgol fach ei diffinio fel un â 90 o ddisgyblion, ond byddai 50 yn ffigur mwy priodol yng Nghymru. Y tro diwethaf inni gael y ddadl hon, cadwasoch at ffigur y Comisiwn Archwilio. Byddai’n llawer mwy synhwyrol dilyn ffigur o 50 ar gyfer Cymru. Hefyd, yr oeddwn yn gywir pan gyfeiriais at y £414,000 sydd ar gael ar gyfer Caerdydd ac Abertawe––

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 57

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 57

Order. We are out of the indicative time for this debate. We have already discussed it for 15 minutes. I must protect the following business, which includes some of your business, Minister.

Trefn. Yr ydym wedi mynd y tu hwnt i’r amser dynodedig ar gyfer y ddadl hon. Yr ydym eisoes wedi trafod y pwnc am 15 munud. Rhaid imi warchod y busnes dilynol, sy’n cynnwys peth o’ch busnes chi, Weinidog.

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 57

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 57

I draw Members’ attention to the list of the amounts of money for each local authority, which was published with this special grant report and which shows that £81,000 was given to Cardiff LEA. The second tranche on the pupil-led census is divided into two separate amounts of money because that is the normal distribution mechanism. The small rural schools grant money is operated on a mechanism that recognises numbers of small and rural schools and factors about sparsity and deprivation, whereas the second amount of money is operated on the normal mechanism.

Tynnaf sylw’r Aelodau at y rhestr o’r symiau o arian ar gyfer pob awdurdod lleol, a gyhoeddwyd gyda’r adroddiad grant arbennig hwn ac sy’n dangos mai £81,000 a roddwyd i AALl Caerdydd. Caiff yr ail haen ar y cyfrifiad disgyblion ei rhannu yn ddau swm o arian ar wahân gan mai dyma’r dull dyrannu arferol. Caiff yr arian grant ysgolion bach gwledig ei weithredu yn ôl dull sy’n cydnabod nifer o ysgolion bach a gwledig a ffactorau yn ymwneud â theneurwydd y boblogaeth ac amddifadedd, lle caiff yr ail swm o arian ei weithredu yn unol â’r dull arferol.

Cynnig NDM1345 Jane Davidson t. 57

Motion NDM1345 Jane Davidson p. 57

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 37 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (37)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Jane Davidson
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Brian Hancock
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • David Ian Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

Cymeradwyo Rheoliadau Traffig Ffyrdd (Allyriadau Cerbydau) (Cosbau Penodedig) (Cymru) 2003

Approval of the Road Traffic (Vehicle Emissions) (Fixed Penalty) (Wales) Regulations 2003

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 58

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 58

Yr ydym yn brin o amser, ac er mwyn diogelu’r busnes dilynol, gosodaf gyfyngiad o dri munud ar—[Torri ar draws.] Trefn. Gwnaf gyhoeddiad ynglŷn ag amseriad y ddadl nesaf. Bydd cyfyngiad o dri munud ar gyfer pob siaradwr a phum munud i’r Gweinidog i agor ac i gloi’r ddadl.

We are short of time, and in order to protect the business that follows, I will impose a three minute time limit on—[Interruption.] Order. I am making an announcement on the timing of the next debate. There will be a limit of three minutes for each speaker and five minutes for the Minister to open and close the debate.

Sue Essex The Minister for Environment spoken in English p. 58

Sue Essex Y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 58

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Sue Essex The Minister for Environment (continued) spoken in English p. 58

Sue Essex Y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 58

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Sue Essex The Minister for Environment (continued) spoken in English p. 59

Sue Essex Y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 59

I will be as brief as I can. These regulations give local authorities declaring traffic-related air quality management areas the power to issue a fixed penalty of £60 to drivers of vehicles that fail to meet prescribed emissions standards. The fixed penalty will be reduced by 50 per cent where the defect has been corrected within 14 days, or can be waived completely if, in addition to correcting the defect, it can be shown that reasonable steps have been taken to maintain the vehicle properly. The regulations also provide all local authorities with the power to issue a fixed penalty of £20 to drivers leaving engines idling unnecessarily when parked at the roadside.

Bydd fy sylwadau mor fyr â phosibl. Mae’r rheoliadau hyn yn rhoi’r pŵer i awdurdodau lleol sy’n datgan ardaloedd ansawdd aer mewn cysylltiad â thraffig roi cosb benodol o £60 i yrwyr cerbydau nad ydynt yn cyrraedd y safonau gollyngiadau rhagnodedig. Gostyngir y gosb benodol 50 y cant lle y cywirwyd y diffyg o fewn 14 diwrnod, neu gellir ei hepgor yn gyfan gwbl os gellir dangos bod y modurwr wedi cymryd camau rhesymol i gynnal a chadw’r cerbyd yn briodol, yn ogystal â chywiro’r diffyg. Mae’r rheoliadau hefyd yn rhoi’r pŵer i bob awdurdod lleol i osod cosb benodol o £20 i yrwyr sy’n gadael injan yn troi yn ddiangen pan eu bod wedi parcio ar ochr y ffordd.

Increases in road traffic are producing localised poor air quality. The ability to carry out vehicle emission testing would increase the range of options available to local authorities to improve air quality, especially for those authorities that have declared air quality management areas and are preparing action plans to deal with emissions from road vehicles. I am well aware that land transport produces almost a quarter of carbon dioxide emissions, with 75 per cent of pollution being caused by 25 per cent of vehicles. A trial of these powers took place in 1998, and the City and County of Swansea Council took part. It was followed by a consultation exercise and an analysis of the responses showed that a clear majority was in favour of extending the emission testing to all local authorities in Wales. The majority was also in favour of the concessions and there was a clear consensus that the scheme should not be self-financing, and would require funding to help offset costs.

Mae’r cynnydd mewn traffig ffyrdd yn arwain at ansawdd aer gwael o fewn ardaloedd penodol. Byddai’r gallu i gynnal profion ar ollyngiadau cerbydau yn cynyddu’r ystod o opsiynau sydd ar gael i awdurdodau lleol wella ansawdd aer, yn enwedig i’r awdurdodau hynny sydd wedi datgan ardaloedd rheoli ansawdd aer ac sydd wrthi’n paratoi cynlluniau gweithredu i ymdrin â gollyngiadau o gerbydau ffordd. Yr wyf yn ymwybodol iawn bod trafnidiaeth ar y tir yn cynhyrchu bron chwarter y gollyngiadau carbon deuocsid, gyda 25 y cant o gerbydau yn achosi 75 y cant o lygredd. Cynhaliwyd prawf ar y pwerau hyn yn 1998, a chymerodd Cyngor Dinas a Sir Abertawe ran. Fe’i dilynwyd gan ymgynghoriad ac yn ôl dadansoddiad o’r ymatebion yr oedd mwyafrif amlwg o blaid ymestyn profion am ollyngiadau i bob awdurdod lleol yng Nghymru. Yr oedd y mwyafrif hefyd o blaid consesiynau a bu cytundeb amlwg na ddylai’r cynllun ariannu ei hun, ac y byddai angen arian i helpu i wrthbwyso’r costau.

In my view, there is little benefit in meeting air quality standards by testing emissions outside air quality management areas because emissions are rapidly diluted. I therefore decided that it would be more sensible to concentrate funds and resources where they would achieve the best value in monetary and environmental terms. At present, compliance with prescribed emissions standards is checked only at the annual MOT test, although all vehicles may also be tested by the vehicle inspectorate at random roadside emission tests.

Yn fy marn i, nid oes fawr o ddiben cyflanwi safonau ansawdd aer drwy brofi gollyngiadau y tu allan i ardaloedd rheoli ansawdd aer am y caiff gollyngiadau eu lleihau’n gyflym. Felly penderfynais y byddai’n fwy synhwyrol canolbwyntio arian ac adnoddau lle y byddent yn sicrhau’r gwerth gorau o ran arian a’r amgylchedd. Ar hyn o bryd, dim ond yn ystod y prawf MOT blynyddol y caiff cydymffurfiad â safonau gollyngiadau rhagnodedig ei wirio, er y gall yr arolygiaeth cerbydau hefyd roi prawf ar unrhyw gerbyd mewn hapbrofion ar ochr y ffordd.

The regulations before you do not create a new offence as meeting prescribed vehicle emission limits and stopping an engine when stationary are laid out in the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986. The new regulations will provide local authorities with a permissive but not prescriptive power to improve local air quality in their areas. The intention is to encourage all motorists to maintain their vehicles properly and to exercise thought for others by switching their engines off when parking for short periods.

Nid yw’r rheoliadau ger eich bron yn creu trosedd newydd gan fod cyrraedd terfynau gollyngiadau cerbyd rhagnodedig a diffodd injan pan nad yw’r cerbyd yn symud wedi’u nodi yn Rheoliadau Cerbydau Ffordd (Gwneuthuriad a Defnydd) 1986. Bydd y rheoliadau newydd yn rhoi pŵer caniataol ond nid cyfarwyddol i awdurdodau lleol wella ansawdd aer lleol yn eu hardaloedd. Y bwriad yw annog pob modurwr i gynnal a chadw eu cerbydau yn briodol ac ystyried eraill drwy ddiffodd yr injan pan fydd y cerbyd wedi’i barcio am gyfnodau byr.

The regulations will allow local authorities that have declared traffic-related air quality management action areas to be designated by the National Assembly and to carry out emissions testing. Local authority personnel will be trained by the Vehicle Inspectorate to carry out the test, and the Assembly will issue detailed guidance setting out the purpose and the application of the powers. This will constitute the day-to-day instruction that local authority personnel will follow.

Bydd y rheoliadau yn caniatáu i awdurdodau lleol sydd wedi datgan ardaloedd gweithredu rheoli ansawdd aer mewn cysylltiad â thraffig gael eu dynodi gan y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol ac iddynt gynnal profion gollyngiadau. Caiff personél awdurdodau lleol eu hyfforddi gan yr Arolygiaeth Gerbydau i gynnal y prawf, a bydd y Cynulliad yn rhoi canllawiau manwl sy’n nodi diben y pwerau a’r ffordd y dylid eu cymhwyso. Bydd y canllawiau hyn yn gyfarwyddyd o ddydd i ddydd y bydd personél awdurdodau lleol yn ei ddilyn.

Three local authorities have declared traffic-related air quality management areas: one in Swansea; four in Cardiff; and seven in Newport. Neath Port Talbot has declared one area for primarily industrial PM10 particles, with a potential contribution from traffic. We do not expect any other authorities to declare areas on the basis of traffic emissions. These regulations are important in helping local authorities with the task of improving air quality, and I commend them to the Assembly.

Mae tri awdurdod lleol wedi datgan ardaloedd rheoli ansawdd aer mewn cysylltiad â thraffig: un yn Abertawe; pedair yng Nghaerdydd; a saith yng Nghasnewydd. Mae Castell-nedd Port Talbot wedi datgan un ardal ar gyfer gronynnau PM10 diwydiannol yn bennaf, gyda chyfraniad posibl gan draffig. Ni ddisgwyliwn y bydd unrhyw awdurdod arall yn datgan ardaloedd ar sail gollyngiadau traffig. Mae’r rheoliadau hyn yn bwysig i helpu awdurdodau lleol gyda’r dasg o wella ansawdd aer, ac fe’u cymeradwyaf i’r Cynulliad.

David Davies spoken in English p. 60

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 60

I have a strange sense of déjà vu as I rise to welcome these regulations. I hope that they will decrease air pollution and thus improve the quality of the air that we breathe. We have no problem supporting them. I have a minor concern that fines for drivers who allow vehicles’ engines to idle unnecessarily could be good in theory, but might be used over-zealously. Will you offer reassurance on that point? The Conservative Party is willing to support these and any measures that are good for the environment.

Caf deimlad rhyfedd o déjà vu wrth imi godi i groesawu’r rheoliadau hyn. Gobeithiaf y byddant yn lleihau llygredd aer ac felly’n gwella ansawdd yr aer a anadlwn. Yr ydym yn ddigon parod i’w cefnogi. Mae gennyf rywfaint o bryder y gallai dirwyon i yrwyr sy’n gadael i injan eu cerbyd droi yn ddiangen fod yn beth da mewn egwyddor, ond y gellid eu defnyddio yn rhy eiddgar. A rowch sicrwydd ar y pwynt hwnnw? Mae’r Blaid Geidwadol yn barod i gefnogi’r rhain ac unrhyw fesurau sydd o fudd i’r amgylchedd.

Val Lloyd spoken in English p. 61

Val Lloyd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 61

I welcome the regulations, but I am not quite in tune with David, since I particularly welcome the measures relating to leaving engines idling. I am pleased to note that a pilot study was carried out in the Hafod area of my constituency, Swansea East. A main road goes out of the city through the heart of that community. As on many roads, there are ever-increasing traffic levels. There are speed-reducing measures on that road, but, of course, they have the side-effect of increasing vehicle emissions. Understandably, residents are concerned about vehicle emissions in their neighbourhood and any potential health problems that they might bring. I am pleased with these regulations, which will lessen vehicle emissions, minimise air pollution and improve air quality.

Croesawaf y rheoliadau, ond nid wyf yn llwyr gydfynd â David, gan y croesawaf yn arbennig y mesurau sy’n ymwneud â gadael i injan droi. Yr wyf yn falch o nodi i gynllun peilot gael ei gynnal yn ardal Hafod yn fy etholaeth, Dwyrain Abertawe. Mae prif ffordd o’r ddinas yn mynd drwy ganol y gymuned honno. Fel gyda llawer o ffyrdd, ceir lefelau bythol gynyddol o draffig. Mae mesurau i leihau cyflymder ar y ffordd honno, ond, wrth gwrs, mae hynny yn golygu bod gollyngiadau o gerbydau yn cynyddu o ganlyniad. Yn naturiol, mae preswylwyr yn pryderu am ollyngiadau cerbydau yn eu cymdogaeth ac unrhyw broblemau iechyd posibl y gallant eu peri. Yr wyf yn falch o nodi y bydd y rheoliadau hyn, a fydd yn lleihau gollyngiadau cerbydau, yn lleihau llygredd aer i’r eithaf ac yn gwella ansawdd aer.

Brian Gibbons spoken in English p. 61

Brian Gibbons siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 61

We all accept that air pollution has a significant adverse effect on health. Vehicles contribute to some 50 per cent of the air pollution problem. They also contribute some 20 to 30 per cent of carbon dioxide emissions, that is, greenhouse gases. There is a particular problem with heavy goods vehicles. Socially deprived communities seem to have a disproportionate number of these vehicles. Huw Lewis has often made the point that it is in the poorer communities in Wales that you see the most clapped-out and out-of-date buses, ambulances and other public service vehicles. They seem to be good enough for the poorer communities, but not desirable in the posher ends of town. Such under-performing vehicles are the type of vehicles that contribute to air pollution in those communities.

Derbynia pob un ohonom y caiff llygredd aer effaith niweidiol sylweddol ar iechyd. Cyfranna cerbydau at tua 50 y cant o’r broblem llygredd aer. Cyfrannant hefyd rhwng 20 a 30 y cant o ollyngiadau carbon deuocsid, hynny yw, nwyon tŷ gwydr. Ceir problem benodol o ran cerbydau nwyddau trwm. Ymddengys fod nifer anghymesur o’r cerbydau hyn mewn cymunedau sy’n gymdeithasol ddifreintiedig. Mae Huw Lewis yn aml wedi gwneud y pwynt mai yn y cymunedau tlotaf yng Nghymru y gwelwch y bysiau, ambiwlansys a cherbydau gwasanaeth cyhoeddus hynaf a’r rhai yn y cyflwr gwaethaf. Ymddengys eu bod yn ddigon da i’r cymunedau tlotaf, ond nid yn ddymunol ar gyfer y rhannau mwy crand o’r dref. Y cerbydau diffygiol hyn yw’r math o gerbydau sy’n cyfrannu at lygredd aer yn y cymunedau hynny.

The Minister said that local authorities that have declared an air quality management area for traffic-related reasons will be able to implement these regulations. Is that the case, or will any local authority that has declared an air quality management area be able to invoke the regulations? The risk is not related to the source of the pollution, but to the total air pollution in the area. Therefore, in an area with high levels of pollution, even from an industrial source, high levels of vehicle emissions aggravate the health risk posed by those emissions. If these regulations are to be in line with scientific evidence, and designed to improve people’s health, then any local authority that needs to declare an air-quality management action area should be in a position to invoke these regulations, and not just those which want to do so simply because of a high level of vehicle emissions.

Dywedodd y Gweinidog y bydd awdurdodau lleol sydd wedi datgan ardal rheoli ansawdd aer am resymau sy’n gysylltiedig â thraffig yn gallu gweithredu’r rheoliadau hyn. A yw hynny’n wir, neu a all unrhyw awdurdod lleol sydd wedi datgan ardal rheoli ansawdd aer alw’r rheoliadau i rym? Nid oes a wnelo’r risg â ffynhonnell y llygredd, ond â chyfanswm y llygredd aer yn yr ardal. Felly, mewn ardal sydd â lefelau uchel o lygredd, hyd yn oed o ffynhonnell ddiwydiannol, mae lefelau uchel o ollyngiadau o gerbydau yn gwaethygu’r risg i iechyd a achosir gan y gollyngiadau hynny. Er mwyn i’r rheoliadau hyn fod yn gyson â thystiolaeth wyddonol, ac wedi’u cynllunio i wella iechyd pobl, yna mae angen i unrhyw awdurdod lleol sy’n datgan ardal weithredu rheoli ansawdd aer allu galw’r rheoliadau hyn i rym, ac nid dim ond yr awdurdodau hynny sydd am wneud hynny oherwydd lefel uchel o ollyngiadau cerbydau yn unig.

John Griffiths spoken in English p. 62

John Griffiths siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 62

I welcome these regulations and thank you for bringing them forward. There is great concern on council estates in Newport, for example, which are hemmed in by motorways and major roads, and where there is a high incidence of asthma. I know that there is great concern about road traffic, and I hope that you will monitor the effectiveness of the schemes that are introduced by local authorities, with a view to improving them, if necessary, and ensuring that they are as effective as they can be.

Croesawaf y rheoliadau hyn a diolchaf ichi am eu cyflwyno. Mae cryn bryder ar ystadau tai cyngor yng Nghasnewydd, er enghraifft, lle mae traffyrdd a phrif ffyrdd o boptu, a lle mae nifer fawr o achosion o asthma. Gwn fod pryder mawr ynglŷn â thraffig ffyrdd, a gobeithiaf y byddwch yn monitro effeithiolrwydd y cynlluniau a gyflwynir gan awdurdodau lleol, gyda’r bwriad o’u gwella, os oes angen, a sicrhau eu bod mor effeithiol ag y gallant fod.

Sue Essex The Minister for Environment spoken in English p. 62

Sue Essex Y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 62

I thank you, David, for your support for these regulations. You asked whether there would be over-zealous punishment of drivers who leave their cars idling. Fines will be attached to this, but the main point of this exercise is to change the way in which people behave. That was the response from the Swansea pilot scheme. We can reassure you somewhat on that, David, but we will keep an eye on it—I think that your worries will be unfounded. On Val’s point, we are glad that Swansea took part in the pilot scheme, and I understand that Hafod has been chosen as the area for action. You are right to say that the situation there is difficult. It is a densely-populated urban area, with houses right on the pavement, I believe, where the effects of air pollution will be felt much more strongly.

Diolchaf ichi, David, am eich cefnogaeth i’r rheoliadau hyn. Gofynasoch pa un a gâi gyrwyr sy’n gadael i injan eu ceir droi’n segur eu cosbi yn rhy eiddgar. Bydd modd rhoi dirwy o dan y rheoliadau hyn, ond prif ddiben yr ymarfer hwn yw newid y ffordd y mae pobl yn ymddwyn. Dyna’r ymateb a gafwyd o gynllun peilot Abertawe. Gallwn roi rhywfaint o sicrwydd ichi o ran hynny, David, ond cadwn olwg ar hynny—ni chredaf y bydd sail i’ch pryderon. O ran pwynt Val, yr ydym yn falch bod Abertawe wedi cymryd rhan yn y cynllun peilot, a deallaf fod Hafod wedi’i dewis fel yr ardal weithredu. Yr ydych yn iawn i ddweud bod y sefyllfa yno yn anodd. Mae’n ardal drefol boblog iawn, lle mae blaen y tai yn ffinio â’r palmant, fe gredaf, lle y caiff llygredd aer effaith llawer cryfach.

I am unsure of the exact answer to Brian’s point, which was, as always, a learned one. If what I am saying is incorrect, I am sure that people watching from another place will give you the right answer—[Laughter.] Not that other place—in Cathays park perhaps, or even upstairs in this building.

Nid wyf yn siŵr beth yw’r union ateb i bwynt Brian, a oedd, fel bob amser, yn un hyddysg. Os yw’r hyn a ddywedaf yn anghywir, yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd pobl sy’n gwylio o le arall yn rhoi’r ateb cywir ichi—[Chwerthin.] Nid y lle arall hwnnw—ym mharc Cathays efallai, neu hyd yn oed i fyny’r grisiau yn yr adeilad hwn.

Heavy goods vehicles are included in the regulations, which is good news for you, and for Huw, as you have raised those points before. In terms of how this will be implemented, if we take the example of Neath and Port Talbot, its air quality management action area is one affected by PM10 particulates from an industrial source, but also takes into account the traffic emissions, because, as you rightly say, we must consider the total impact on air quality. That action plan, if approved, will fall within these regulations. However, the regulations that I am presenting today are for those areas that have defined the problem of vehicle emissions that are over the limits. The £250,000 is to back that up—

Cynhwysir cerbydau nwyddau trwm yn y rheoliadau, sy’n newyddion da i chi, ac i Huw, gan ichi godi’r pwyntiau hynny o’r blaen. O ran y ffordd y caiff hyn ei weithredu, os ystyriwn enghraifft Castell-nedd a Phort Talbot, mae ei hardal weithredu rheoli ansawdd aer yn un yr effeithia gronynnau PM10 o ffynhonnell ddiwydiannol arni, ond mae hefyd yn ystyried gollyngiadau traffig, gan fod yn rhaid inni ystyried yr effaith gyfan ar ansawdd aer, fel y dywedasoch. Daw’r cynllun gweithredu hwnnw, os y’i cymeradwyir, o fewn y rheoliadau hyn. Fodd bynnag, mae’r rheoliadau a gyflwynaf heddiw ar gyfer yr ardaloedd hynny sydd wedi nodi bod problem o ran gollyngiadau o gerbydau sy’n uwch na’r terfyn. Diben y £250,000 yw ategu hynny—

Brian Gibbons spoken in English p. 63

Brian Gibbons siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 63

You have clarified my question in the sense that this can only be invoked for a traffic-related air quality management action area. However, I urge you to reconsider this matter and whether we need to introduce regulations that allow all local authorities, regardless of why they have designated areas as air quality management action areas, to use these regulations. These regulations should be available to those authorities, as long as the emissions are types that come from motor vehicles.

Bu ichi egluro fy nghwestiwn yn yr ystyr mai dim ond yn achos ardal weithredu rheoli ansawdd aer mewn cysylltiad â thraffig y gellir galw’r rheoliadau hyn i rym. Fodd bynnag, apeliaf arnoch i ailystyried y mater hwn, ac a oes angen inni gyflwyno rheoliadau sy’n caniatáu i bob awdurdod lleol ddefnyddio’r rheoliadau hyn, pa un a ydynt wedi dynodi ardaloedd yn ardaloedd gweithredu rheoli ansawdd aer ai peidio. Dylai’r rheoliadau hyn fod ar gael i’r awdurdodau hynny, cyhyd ag y bo’r gollyngiadau yn fathau a ddaw o gerbydau modur.

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 63

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 63

The basis of this is proper monitoring and data. At present, only four local authorities have designated areas for action. That does not mean that other areas will not be designated. However, these action plans must be based on good data and evidence that shows that the levels exceed those permitted. We need to pursue action in those areas where there is a demonstrated need. If we become aware of more areas where this is a problem, then your point is valid. The point about the impact of pollution on people’s wellbeing and general esteem in poor areas is important—

Y sail i hyn yw gwaith monitro a data cywir. Ar hyn o bryd, dim ond pedwar awdurdod lleol sydd wedi dynodi ardaloedd ar gyfer gweithredu. Nid yw hynny’n golygu na chaiff ardaloedd eraill eu dynodi. Fodd bynnag, rhaid i’r cynlluniau gweithredu hyn fod yn seiliedig ar ddata a thystiolaeth dda sy’n dangos bod y lefelau yn uwch na’r rhai a ganiateir. Mae angen inni weithredu yn yr ardaloedd hynny lle dangosir bod angen. Os down yn ymwybodol o ragor o ardaloedd lle ceir problem, yna mae’ch pwynt yn ddilys. Mae’r pwynt ynglŷn ag effaith llygredd ar les a hunan-barch pobl yn gyffredinol mewn ardaloedd tlawd yn un pwysig—

Eleanor Burnham spoken in English p. 64

Eleanor Burnham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 64

Do you not agree that we should be much more careful about giving planning permission for large swathes of housing estates that are too close to roads, particularly when you have monitored high levels of pollution in the area?

Oni chytunwch y dylem fod yn llawer mwy gofalus ynglŷn â rhoi caniatâd cynllunio i rannau helaeth o ystadau tai sy’n rhy agos i ffyrdd, yn enwedig ar ôl i lefelau uchel o lygredd gael eu monitro yn yr ardal?

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 64

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 64

This is a slightly different issue. Taking into account all the representations on planning permission, in many cases the Environment Agency does put forward a view, which covers a range of matters, including air quality. However, you are right to say that we should be concerned about the location of housing developments near major traffic areas and our knowledge about the impact of that is increasing. Jane Hutt and I are working on the health implications of planning and that work will inform our direction on this. A centre for medical excellence might deal with that.

Mae hynny yn fater ychydig yn wahanol. Ar ôl ystyried yr holl sylwadau ar ganiatâd cynllunio, mewn sawl achos mae Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd yn cyhoeddi barn, sy’n cwmpasu amrywiaeth o faterion, gan gynnwys ansawdd aer. Fodd bynnag, yr ydych yn llygad eich lle i ddweud y dylem fod yn bryderus ynglŷn â lleoliad datblygiadau tai ger ardaloedd o draffig mawr ac mae ein gwybodaeth am effaith hynny yn cynyddu. Mae Jane Hutt a minnau yn gweithio ar y goblygiadau iechyd o ran cynllunio a bydd y gwaith hwnnw yn ein llywio yn hyn o beth. Gallai canolfan rhagoriaeth feddygol ymdrin â hynny.

Gareth Jones a gododd—

Gareth Jones rose—

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 64

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 64

Sorry, time is too short.

Mae’n ddrwg gennyf, nid oes digon o amser.

On John’s point, the responsibility for this lies with the local authority. It has a duty to prepare action plans and monitor local air quality. We will keep an eye on the matter, but it is best that local communities ensure that their local authorities respond to their needs.

O ran pwynt John, yr awdurdod lleol sy’n gyfrifol am hyn. Mae dyletswydd ganddo i baratoi cynlluniau gweithredu a monitro ansawdd aer lleol. Byddwn yn cadw golwg ar y mater, ond gwell fyddai pe bai cymunedau lleol yn sicrhau bod eu hawdurdodau lleol yn ymateb i’w hanghenion.

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 37 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (37)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Jane Davidson
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Brian Hancock
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • David Ian Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Peter Rogers
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 36 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (36)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Jane Davidson
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Brian Hancock
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • David Ian Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Peter Rogers
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas

Cymeradwyo Newidiadau i Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.9

Approval of Changes to Standing Order No. 6.9

Carwyn Jones The Business Minister spoken in English p. 66

Carwyn Jones Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 66

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Carwyn Jones The Business Minister (continued) spoken in English p. 66

Carwyn Jones Y Trefnydd (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 66

For Standing Order No. 6.9 substitute:

Rhoi yn lle Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 6.9:

at any plenary meeting and after questions for oral answer have been taken, a Member may propose in a speech lasting no longer than three minutes that the Assembly should consider a particular matter, provided that

mewn unrhyw gyfarfod llawn ac ar ôl i gwestiynau i’w hateb ar lafar gael eu cymryd, gall Aelod gynnig mewn araith heb fod yn fwy na thair munud ei hyd y dylai’r Cynulliad ystyried mater penodol, ar yr amod

a) the Member has notified the Presiding Officer of his or her wish to do so and of the matter at least one hour before the beginning of the sitting;

a) bod yr Aelod wedi hysbysu’r Llywydd am ei ddymuniad i wneud hynny ac am y mater o leiaf awr cyn dechrau’r sesiwn;

b) if a Member other than a Minister has given the notification, the Presiding Officer has given a Minister an opportunity to comment in private to him or her on the matter; and

b) bod Aelod heblaw Gweinidog wedi rhoi’r hysbysiad, a bod y Llywydd wedi rhoi cyfle i Weinidog gyflwyno sylwadau yn breifat iddo neu iddi ar y mater; a

c) the Presiding Officer is satisfied that the matter is of urgent public importance, and has informed the Member (and, if necessary, the Minister) accordingly.

c) bod y Llywyddd yn fodlon bod y mater o bwys cyhoeddus brys, a’i fod wedi hysbysu’r Aelod (ac, os oes angen, y Gweinidog) yn unol â hynny.

If a Member other than a Minister makes the proposition, the Presiding Officer shall allow a Minister to reply in a speech lasting no longer than three minutes. The Presiding Officer shall put the proposition to the vote immediately after it has been made or, if a Minister replies, after that reply. If the Assembly resolves to consider the matter, it shall do so at that meeting or (if the Presiding Officer so decides) at the one immediately following, and the Presiding Officer shall adjust the timetable for business as he or she thinks appropriate. If the matter is within the responsibilities of the House Committee, then for ‘Minister’ in this paragraph, there shall be substituted ‘a member of the House Committee answering on behalf of that Committee’. (NDM1349)

Os bydd Aelod heblaw Gweinidog yn gwneud y cynnig, bydd y Llywydd yn caniatáu i’r Gweinidog ateb mewn araith na fydd yn para yn hwy na thair munud. Bydd y Llywydd yn cynnal pleidlais ar y cynnig yn union ar ôl iddo gael ei wneud neu, os bydd Gweinidog yn ateb, ar ôl yr ateb hwnnw. Os bydd y Cynulliad yn penderfynu ystyried y mater, bydd yn gwneud hynny yn ystod y cyfarfod hwnnw (neu os bydd y Llywydd yn penderfynu felly) yr un sy’n dilyn yn syth, a bydd y Llywydd yn addasu’r amserlen ar gyfer busnes fel y gwêl yn dda. Os yw’r mater o fewn cyfrifoldebau Pwyllgor y Ty, yna yn lle ‘Gweinidog’ yn y paragraff hwn, rhodder ‘aelod o Bwyllgor y Tŷ yn ateb ar ran y Pwyllgor’. (NDM1349)

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 67

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 67

A oes rhywun yn dymuno siarad ar y pwnc hwn? Gwelaf nad oes ac felly galwaf am bleidlais. Mae angen mwyafrif o ddwy ran o dair o blaid y cynnig iddo lwyddo.

Does anyone wish to speak on this matter? I see that no-one does, therefore I call for a vote. A two-thirds majority in favour of the motion is required in order for it to be carried.

Cynnig Carwyn Jones t. 67

Motion Carwyn Jones p. 67

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 35 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (35)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Jane Davidson
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Delyth Evans
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Brian Hancock
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • David Ian Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Peter Rogers
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas

Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd i’r Gadair am 4.16 p.m.

The Deputy Presiding Officer took the Chair at 4.16 p.m.

Darpariaeth y Blynyddoedd Cynnar a Chynigion ar gyfer Cyfnod Sylfaen

Early Years Provision and Proposals for a Foundation Phase

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 68

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 68

I have selected amendment 1 in the name of Jonathan Morgan.

Yr wyf wedi dethol gwelliant 1 yn enw Jonathan Morgan.

Jane Davidson The Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning spoken in English p. 68

Jane Davidson Y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 68

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Jane Davidson The Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning (continued) spoken in English p. 68

Jane Davidson Y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 68

I am delighted that we have this opportunity today to debate how we propose to go about fulfilling the commitment given in ‘The Learning Country’ to give every child a flying start and to support parents to enable this to happen. There can be no doubt about the importance of the early years to a child’s personal and social development and the key role that these years can play in shaping their attitudes and approach to learning in later life. We would all agree that we want Wales to become internationally renowned as a learning country; a place that puts learners’ interests first and offers the widest possible access and opportunities for all. Work has been underway in developing this agenda for some time. In December 2000, we published the final report from the Education and Lifelong Learning Committee, ‘Laying the Foundations’. To take forward its recommendations, we established an early years advisory panel, which has brought together a range of key stakeholders to advise on its implementation. I take this opportunity of thanking them sincerely for their invaluable contribution.

Yr wyf wrth fy modd bod y cyfle hwn gennym heddiw i drafod sut y bwriadwn fynd ati i gyflawni’r ymrwymiad a roddir yn ‘Y Wlad sy’n Dysgu’ i roi cychwyn da i bob plentyn ac i roi cymorth i rieni er mwyn sicrhau bod hynny yn digwydd. Nid oes unrhyw amheuaeth ynglŷn â phwysigrwydd y blynyddoedd cynnar i ddatblygiad personol a chymdeithasol plentyn a’r rhan allweddol y gall y blynyddoedd hyn ei chwarae mewn ffurfio eu hagweddau a’u hymagwedd tuag at ddysgu yn ddiweddarach yn eu bywydau. Byddai pawb yn cytuno ein bod am i Gymru gael enw yn rhyngwladol am fod yn wlad sy’n dysgu; lle sy’n rhoi buddiannau dysgwyr yn gyntaf ac yn cynnig y mynediad ehangaf posibl a chyfleoedd i bawb. Mae’r gwaith ar ddatblygu’r agenda hon wedi bod yn mynd rhagddo ers peth amser. Ym mis Rhagfyr 2000, bu inni gyhoeddi yr adroddiad terfynol gan y Pwyllgor Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes, ‘Gosod y Sylfeini’. Er mwyn gweithredu ei argymhellion, sefydlwyd panel ymgynghorol y blynyddoedd cynnar gennym sydd wedi dod ag ystod o randdeiliaid allweddol ynghyd i roi cyngor ar y ffordd y dylid rhoi’r adroddiad ar waith. Hoffwn fachu ar y cyfle hwn i ddiolch o galon iddynt am eu cyfraniad amhrisiadwy.

There are two key elements to rolling out early years provision. First is the physical infrastructure and, secondly, and of far-reaching importance, is the curriculum. The first task of the early years advisory panel was to establish precisely how many early years places were required. We knew that, in Wales, there were some 35,000 in the three-year-old cohort, but we did not know how many early years places existed and how many needed to be provided to enable parents to access quality provision across Wales. We also needed to have some idea of parents’ preferences in terms of providing a mixed economy, and also, importantly, their preferred language for educating their child. Through a combination of an audit and bilateral discussions, both conducted in concert with each early years and childcare development partnership, we were able to identify a shortfall of 7,500 places across Wales. I am delighted to say that we have already made significant in-roads into meeting this shortfall, and by the end of March we will have supported the creation of some 5,500 new places. In seeking to provide these places, we have been conscious of the need to provide our children with quality provision.

Mae dwy elfen allweddol i’r broses o gyflwyno darpariaeth y blynyddoedd cynnar. Yr elfen gyntaf yw’r seilwaith ffisegol a’r ail yw’r cwricwlwm, sy’n bwysig dros ben. Tasg gyntaf panel ymgynghorol y blynyddoedd cynnar oedd canfod faint yn union o leoedd y blynyddoedd cynnar yr oedd eu hangen. Gwyddem fod tua 35,000 yn y garfan plant tair blwydd oed yng Nghymru, ond ni wyddem faint o leoedd y blynyddoedd cynnar a oedd yn bodoli eisoes a faint yr oedd angen eu darparu i alluogi rhieni i gael gafael ar ddarpariaeth o safon ar draws Cymru. Yr oedd angen inni hefyd gael rhyw amcan o ddymuniadau rhieni o ran darparu economi gymysg, a hefyd, yn bwysig ddigon, eu dewis iaith ar gyfer addysg eu plentyn. Drwy gyfuniad o archwiliad a thrafodaethau dwyochrog, y naill a’r llall wedi’u cynnal ar y cyd â phartneriaeth datblygu y blynyddoedd cynnar a gofal plant, yr oeddem yn gallu nodi prinder o 7,500 lle ar draws Cymru. Mae’n bleser gennyf ddweud ein bod eisoes wedi gwneud cynnydd sylweddol i unioni’r prinder hwn, ac erbyn diwedd Mawrth byddwn wedi helpu i greu tua 5,500 o leoedd newydd. Wrth geisio darparu’r lleoedd hyn, buom yn ymwybodol o’r angen i roi darpariaeth o safon i’n plant.

An exciting component of this roll-out of provision is the establishment of integrated centres across Wales, which will bring together the four key elements of early years provision, wrap-around care, open access play, and training and development. I have already approved some 11 centres in 2002-03 and have provided a total of £3.2 million towards their capital costs. These centres alone will provide 350 early years places. Merthyr Tydfil, with £700,000 for 52 places, and Welsh-medium provision in Rhondda Cynon Taf at £600,000 are just coming on stream. I am due to open two of the new centres on 6 March—one in Conwy and the other in Flintshire. I am also pleased to announce today that I have decided to allocate £109,000 to Ceredigion County Council in this financial year. This will enable it to cover the preparatory costs that will be incurred in developing the integrated centre in Aberystwyth, which will operate under the aegis of Mudiad Ysgolion Meithrin, and which will provide 50 early years places through the medium of Welsh. A further £700,000 is earmarked for next year to develop this.

Un elfen gyffrous o gyflwyno’r ddarpariaeth hon yw sefydlu canolfannau integredig ar draws Cymru, a fydd yn dwyn ynghyd bedair elfen allweddol darpariaeth y blynyddoedd cynnar, sef gofal cofleidiol, chwarae mynediad agored, a hyfforddiant a datblygu. Yr wyf eisoes wedi cymeradwyo tua 11 o ganolfannau yn 2002-03 ac wedi darparu cyfanswm o £3.2 miliwn tuag at eu costau cyfalaf. Bydd y canolfannau hyn eu hunain yn darparu 350 o leoedd y blynyddoedd cynnar. Mae Merthyr Tudful, sy’n cael £700,000 ar gyfer 52 o leoedd, a darpariaeth Gymraeg yn Rhondda Cynon Taf ar gost o £600,000 ar fin cael eu sefydlu. Byddaf yn agor dwy o’r canolfannau newydd ar 6 Mawrth—un yng Nghonwy a’r llall yn Sir y Fflint. Mae’n bleser gennyf hefyd gyhoeddi heddiw fy mod wedi penderfynu dyrannu £109,000 i Gyngor Sir Ceredigion yn y flwyddyn ariannol hon. Bydd y swm hwn yn ei alluogi i dalu’r costau paratoi y bydd yn mynd iddynt wrth ddatblygu’r ganolfan integredig yn Aberystwyth, a fydd yn gweithredu dan nawdd Mudiad Ysgolion Meithrin ac yn darparu 50 o leoedd y blynyddoedd cynnar drwy’r Gymraeg. Clustnodir £700,000 arall ar gyfer y flwyddyn nesaf i ddatblygu hyn.

I take great pleasure in supporting this flagship development, which will enhance our Welsh-medium provision and also provide a new headquarters for Mudiad Ysgolion Meithrin. The additional £7 million from 2004-05 noted in ‘Iaith Pawb’ will enable 150 additional Welsh-medium practitioners to be provided and will be a huge asset in developing the roll-out of further places, and is a further sign of the importance I attach to providing Welsh-medium early years provision. It gives me great pleasure that we will be able to offer parents a choice of the language in which they wish their child to be educated in these important early years.

Mae’n bleser mawr gennyf gefnogi’r datblygiad pwysig hwn, a fydd yn gwella ein darpariaeth Gymraeg a hefyd yn darparu pencadlys newydd ar gyfer Mudiad Ysgolion Meithrin. Bydd y £7 miliwn ychwanegol o 2004-05 a nodir yn ‘Iaith Pawb’ yn ein galluogi i ddarparu 150 o ymarferwyr Cymraeg ychwanegol a bydd hynny yn werthfawr iawn wrth ddatblygu rhagor o leoedd, ac yn arwydd pellach o’r pwys a roddaf ar ddarpariaeth y blynyddoedd cynnar drwy’r Gymraeg. Yr wyf wrth fy modd y byddwn yn gallu cynnig dewis i rieni o ran ym mha iaith yr hoffent i’w plentyn gael ei addysgu yn ystod y blynyddoedd cynnar pwysig hyn.

Already we have allocated £6.2 million to early years provision in 2002-03—

Yr ydym eisoes wedi dyrannu £6.2 miliwn i ddarpariaeth y blynyddoedd cynnar yn 2002-03—

Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 70

Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 70

Yr wyf yn falch i’ch clywed yn dweud y bydd modd cynnig dewis i rieni ynglŷn â chyfrwng iaith y dysgu. Pa mor hygyrch fydd y dewis hwnnw, oherwydd mae’n bwysig ei fod ar gael o fewn cyrraedd rhesymol? A allwch warantu hynny, a beth fyddech yn ei feddwl wrth ‘o fewn cyrraedd rhesymol’?

I am glad to hear you say that it will be possible to offer parents a choice of the language medium of the education. How accessible will that choice be, because it is important that it is available within reasonable reach? Can you guarantee that, and what would you mean by ‘within reasonable reach’?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 70

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 70

We are working on the audit and the work of the early years and childcare partnerships to determine what provision is available locally, what parents want, and how that can be delivered to meet our obligation of all three-year-olds being in the environment of their choice by 2004.

Yr ydym yn gweithio ar yr archwiliad a gwaith partneriaethau y blynyddoedd cynnar a gofal plant i gadarnhau pa ddarpariaeth sydd ar gael yn lleol, beth yw dymuniadau rhieni, a sut y gellir darparu hynny er mwyn cyflawni ein hymrwymiad y bydd pob plentyn tair blwydd oed yn yr amgylchedd o’u dewis erbyn 2004.

Already we have allocated £6.2 million to early years provision in 2002-03, with a further £16 million per year available for the next three financial years. We are currently finalising with early years and childcare partnerships their plans to continue the roll-out of provision in 2003-04, and I hope to be in a position to announce the allocations to them before the end of March. I trust that this assurance, and others that I will provide later, will go some way towards reassuring Jonathan Morgan that the necessary resources that are vital to such an enterprise are available and are being used effectively.

Yr ydym eisoes wedi dyrannu £6.2 miliwn i ddarpariaeth y blynyddoedd cynnar yn 2002-03, gyda £16 miliwn arall ar gael bob blwyddyn ar gyfer y tair blwyddyn ariannol nesaf. Ar y cyd â phartneriaethau y blynyddoedd cynnar a gofal plant yr ydym wrthi’n rhoi eu cynlluniau i barhau i gyflwyno darpariaeth yn 2003-04 ar eu gwedd derfynol, a gobeithiaf y byddaf yn gallu cyhoeddi’r dyraniadau a gânt cyn diwedd Mawrth. Hyderaf fod y sicrwydd hwn, ac unrhyw sicrwydd arall a roddaf yn nes ymlaen, yn helpu i dawelu meddwl Jonathan Morgan fod yr adnoddau angenrheidiol sy’n hollbwysig i fenter o’r fath ar gael a’u bod yn cael eu defnyddio’n effeithiol.

On the important issue of an appropriate curriculum for these young children to pursue, I have been keen to proceed on the positive responses received in relation to the proposal for a new statutory curriculum for children between the ages of three to seven in ‘The Learning Country’. I am, therefore, delighted today to launch for consultation my proposals for a foundation phase. These proposals are the culmination of many months of discussion, research, and investigation of good practice in Wales, the UK and elsewhere, all of which has been carefully assessed by our expert adviser, Shan Richards, and Estyn.

O ran mater pwysig cwricwlwm addas i’r plant ifanc hyn ei ddilyn, bûm yn awyddus i weithredu ar yr ymatebion cadarnhaol a ddaeth i law ynglŷn â’r cynnig ar gyfer cwricwlwm statudol newydd i blant rhwng tair a saith mlwydd oed yn ‘Y Wlad sy’n Dysgu’. Felly, mae’n bleser gennyf heddiw lansio ymgynghoriad ar fy nghynigion ar gyfer cyfnod sylfaen. Mae’r cynigion hyn yn ffrwyth llafur sawl mis o drafodaeth, ymchwil, ac archwilio arferion da yng Nghymru, y DU a thu hwnt, gyda’r cyfan wedi’i asesu’n ofalus gan ein cynghorydd arbenigol, Shan Richards, ac Estyn.

There is already extensive good practice in early years settings and key stage 1 throughout Wales. However, if overall provision in Wales is to reflect best practice and enable children to acquire and maintain high standards, as well as to develop positive attitudes towards lifelong learning, some change is required. Best practice must be shared and further developed across Wales if all our children are to make the most of their potential. The consultation document makes it clear that I want a foundation phase that will raise children’s standards of achievement, enhance their positive attitudes to learning, address their developing needs, enable them to benefit from educational opportunities later in life, and help them to become active citizens in their communities. The proposals in the consultation document represent one of the most important and exciting developments that we have initiated for Wales under ‘The Learning Country’ banner.

Mae cryn dipyn o arfer da eisoes ar waith mewn lleoliadau y blynyddoedd cynnar a chyfnod allweddol 1 ledled Cymru. Fodd bynnag, er mwyn i’r ddarpariaeth gyfan yng Nghymru ystyried arferion gorau a galluogi plant i gyrraedd a chadw at safonau uchel, yn ogystal â datblygu agweddau cadarnhaol tuag at ddysgu gydol oes, mae angen rhywfaint o newid. Rhaid rhannu arferion gorau a’u datblygu ymhellach ar draws Cymru er mwyn i’n plant wireddu eu potensial llawn. Eglura’r ddogfen ymgynghori fy mod am gael cyfnod sylfaen a fydd yn codi safonau cyrhaeddiad plant, yn gwella eu hagweddau cadarnhaol tuag at ddysgu, yn mynd i’r afael â’u hanghenion datblygu, yn eu galluogi i elwa ar gyfleoedd addysgol yn ddiweddarach yn eu bywydau ac yn eu helpu i ddod yn ddinasyddion gweithgar yn eu cymunedau. Mae’r cynigion yn y ddogfen ymgynghori yn cynrychioli un o’r datblygiadau pwysicaf a mwyaf cyffrous yr ydym wedi’i roi ar waith ar gyfer Cymru o dan faner ‘Y Wlad sy’n Dysgu’.

John Griffiths spoken in English p. 71

John Griffiths siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 71

Do you agree—and we are acutely aware of this in areas such as Newport where there is a large ethnic minority population—that it is crucial that there is an element of multicultural education? We need greater tolerance and understanding, and if we can educate our young children in those attitudes and characteristics, that would be good for the future and ensure a healthy and tolerant society. In turn, those children can help to educate their families about positive attitudes.

A gytunwch—ac yr ydym yn ymwybodol iawn o hyn mewn ardaloedd megis Casnewydd lle ceir nifer fawr o bobl o leiafrifoedd ethnig—ei bod yn hollbwysig bod rhywfaint o addysg amlddiwylliannol? Mae angen mwy o oddefgarwch a dealltwriaeth, ac os gallwn ddysgu’r agweddau a’r nodweddion hynny i’n plant ifanc, byddai’n beth da i’r dyfodol ac yn sicrhau cymdeithas iach a goddefgar. Gall y plant hynny, yn eu tro, helpu i addysgu eu teuluoedd hwy am agweddau cadarnhaol.

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 72

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 72

I agree. The Assembly feels strongly about equal opportunities and the recognition and support of diversity. Since May last year, all schools are required to have plans in place on how they will tackle racial issues. There is also a paragraph about multiculturalism in the document.

Cytunaf. Teimla’r Cynulliad yn gryf ynglŷn â chyfleoedd cyfartal a chydnabod a chefnogi amrywiaeth. Ers Mai y llynedd, mae’n ofynnol i bob ysgol roi cynlluniau ar waith ar sut y byddant yn mynd i’r afael â materion hiliol. Mae paragraff ynglŷn ag amlddiwylliannaeth yn y ddogfen hefyd.

The implications of this agenda are profound and far-reaching. The opportunity to transform the life choices of our youngest children, and to lift standards and expectations in the early years, is exceptional. The educators of our youngest pupils have long argued that the years before formal schooling are critical to a child’s development. The stimulation a child receives in their early years can affect their abilities and potential throughout life.

Mae goblygiadau mawr a phellgyrhaeddol i’r agenda hon. Mae’r cyfle i drawsnewid dewisiadau bywyd ein plant ifancaf, a chodi safonau a disgwyliadau yn ystod y blynyddoedd cynnar, yn un eithriadol. Mae addysgwyr ein disgyblion ifancaf wedi dadlau ers amser bod y blynyddoedd cyn gwersi ffurfiol yn hollbwysig i ddatblygiad plentyn. Gall yr ysgogiad a gaiff plant yn ystod eu blynyddoedd cynnar effeithio ar eu galluoedd a’u potensial drwy gydol eu hoes.

There is emerging evidence that a curriculum in which children are involved in planning and reviewing their work, and which offers a broad range of experiences, has a positive, long-term effect on children’s social and intellectual development, and their attitudes towards learning. Assessment is a key component of any curriculum, and I have made it clear that robust, ongoing assessment is essential if children are to be motivated and challenged to achieve high standards. To that end, I propose to develop a national assessment continuum to support the new foundation phase. We will work with the Qualifications, Curriculum and Assessment Authority for Wales to examine ways in which modern technology can be used to support schools in maintaining their assessment continuum records, and linking these to produce reports for parents. This will simplify the process and, importantly, help reduce the bureaucratic burden on teachers.

Mae tystiolaeth yn dod i’r golwg bod cwricwlwm lle mae plant yn cymryd rhan yn y broses o gynllunio ac adolygu eu gwaith, ac sy’n cynnig ystod eang o brofiadau, yn cael effaith hirdymor gadarnhaol ar ddatblygiad cymdeithasol a deallusol plant, a’u hagweddau tuag at ddysgu. Mae asesu yn elfen allweddol o unrhyw gwricwlwm, ac eglurais fod asesu cadarn, parhaus yn hanfodol er mwyn cymell a herio plant i gyrraedd safonau uchel. I’r perwyl hwnnw, cynigiaf ddatblygu continwwm asesu cenedlaethol i ategu’r cyfnod sylfaen newydd. Byddwn yn gweithio gydag Awdurdod Cymwysterau, Cwricwlwm ac Asesu Cymru i ystyried ffyrdd o ddefnyddio technoleg fodern i helpu ysgolion i gynnal eu cofnodion continwwm asesu, a’u cysylltu i gynhyrchu adroddiadau ar gyfer rhieni. Bydd hyn yn fodd i symleiddio’r broses ac, yn bwysig ddigon, bydd yn helpu i leihau’r baich biwrocrataidd ar athrawon.

While I am committed to these proposals, I also recognise the importance of ensuring that there is a smooth and considered rolling implementation programme that recognises the vital supporting developments that will need to be put in place, and allows for careful piloting and extensive ongoing evaluation. That is why the full consultation document makes it clear that we do not envisage the introduction of these changes being completed until September 2008. That will allow us time to make available the necessary resources that I recognise will be required to ensure that the foundation phase becomes the success that I intend it should be. I hope that Jonathan Morgan will appreciate, therefore, why I will reject his amendment; what it proposes is already implicit in my proposals.

Er fy mod yn ymrwymedig i’r cynigion hyn, cydnabyddaf hefyd pa mor bwysig yw sicrhau bod rhaglen weithredu dreigl ystyriol a hwylus sy’n cydnabod y datblygiadau ategol hollbwysig y bydd angen eu rhoi ar waith, ac sy’n fodd inni wneud gwaith treialu gofalus a gwerthuso parhaus helaeth. Dyna pam yr eglura’r ddogfen ymgynghori lawn nad ydym yn rhagweld y caiff y newidiadau hyn eu cyflwyno’n llawn tan fis Medi 2008. Bydd hynny yn rhoi amser inni ddarparu’r adnoddau angenrheidiol yr wyf yn cydnabod y bydd eu hangen i sicrhau y bydd y cyfnod sylfaen yn llwyddo cystal ag y bwriadaf iddo ei wneud. Gobeithiaf y bydd Jonathan Morgan yn gwerthfawrogi, felly, pam y gwrthodaf ei welliant; mae’r hyn a gynigia eisoes yn rhan annatod o’m cynigion.

In addition to the usual range of stakeholders, the document will be sent to every primary school as well as to every early years setting. Given the far-reaching implications of the proposals, the consultation period will run to the end of May and will be complemented by a series of regional seminars. I would encourage everyone with an interest, whatever that might be, to contribute to the process. This is our chance in Wales to develop an exciting and innovative curriculum, which I believe will prove to be the envy of many other countries. I trust that you can sense the excitement that I feel—and which I know the early years sector feels—about this initiative, and I look forward to Members’ comments this afternoon.

Yn ychwanegol at yr ystod arferol o randdeiliaid, caiff y ddogfen ei hanfon i bob ysgol gynradd yn ogystal â phob lleoliad y blynyddoedd cynnar. O ystyried goblygiadau pellgyrhaeddol y cynigion, bydd y cyfnod ymgynghori yn parhau tan ddiwedd Mai ac fe’i hategir gan gyfres o seminarau rhanbarthol. Anogaf bawb â diddordeb, beth bynnag y bo, i gyfrannu at y broses. Dyma ein cyfle yng Nghymru i ddatblygu cwricwlwm cyffrous ac arloesol, y bydd llawer o wledydd yn eiddigeddus ohono, fe gredaf. Hyderaf eich bod yn gallu synhwyro’r cyffro a deimlaf—ac a deimla sector y blynyddoedd cynnar, fe wn—ynglŷn â’r fenter hon, ac edrychaf ymlaen at sylwadau’r Aelodau y prynhawn yma.

Gareth Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 73

Gareth Jones spoken in Welsh p. 73

Pwynt o drefn. Mae hyn yn deillio o Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.12A. Yn ein tyb ni, nid yw’r cynnig hwn yn cydymffurfio â’r Rheol Sefydlog honno, sydd yn datgan yn glir,

Point of order. This arises from Standing Order No. 6.12A. In our opinion, this motion does not comply with that Standing Order, which clearly states,

‘Ni chaniateir cyflwyno unrhyw gynnig neu welliant sy’n cyfeirio at unrhyw ddogfen oni bai bod y ddogfen ar gael i bob Aelod pryd y cyflwynir y cynnig neu cyn hynny.’

‘A motion or amendment which refers to any document may not be tabled unless the document is available to all Members before or at the time of tabling.’

Yr oedd hi’n ddiwrnod a hanner ar ôl i’r cynnig hwn gael ei gyflwyno cyn inni gael gweld y ddogfen. Yr oedd hynny yn gadael tua phum awr—dim mwy na hynny—i ni ddarllen y ddogfen a phenderfynu a oeddem am gynnig gwelliannau. Mae’r Rheol Sefydlog hefyd yn gofyn am eglurhad pam nad oedd y ddogfen ar gael. Hoffwn gael eich barn ar hyn.

It was a day and a half after this motion was tabled before we had a chance to see the document. That left about five hours—no more than that—for us to read the document and decide whether we wanted to table amendments. The Standing Order also requires an explanation as to why the document was not available. I would like your ruling on this.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 74

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 74

I am grateful to you for raising that point of order. Standing Order No. 6.12A makes it clear that,

Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar ichi am godi’r pwynt o drefn hwnnw. Mae Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 6.12A yn datgan yn glir,

‘A motion or amendment which refers to any document may not be tabled unless the document is available to all Members before or at the time of tabling.’

‘Ni chaniateir cyflwyno unrhyw gynnig neu welliant sy’n cyfeirio at unrhyw ddogfen oni bai bod y ddogfen ar gael i bob Aelod pryd y cyflwynir y cynnig neu cyn hynny.’

The motion that we are debating does not refer to a document, merely to the Minister’s proposals. A document circulated to Members subsequently outlined those proposals in some detail, but that document was not directly referred to in the motion. Therefore, the Presiding Officer and I are content that the motion is in order and should be debated today. However, it would be helpful if references to documents as substantial as the one in question, and which to all intents and purposes are the subject of Plenary debates, could in future be made explicit in motions and available to Members when motions are tabled. That will avoid any impression that Standing Order requirements are taken lightly and will allow Members of all parties to table amendments with all the relevant facts before them and with adequate time in which to do so. I hope that that is helpful.

Ni chyfeiria’r cynnig yr ydym yn ei drafod at unrhyw ddogfen, dim ond at gynigion y Gweinidog. Nodwyd y cynigion hynny yn fanwl iawn mewn dogfen a ddosbarthwyd i’r Aelodau wedyn, ond ni chyfeiriodd y cynnig yn uniongyrchol at y ddogfen honno. Felly, mae’r Llywydd a minnau yn fodlon bod y cynnig mewn trefn ac y dylid ei drafod heddiw. Fodd bynnag, byddai’n fuddiol pe gallai cyfeiriadau at ddogfennau sydd mor sylweddol â’r un dan sylw, ac sy’n destun dadl yn y Cyfarfod Llawn i bob diben, gael eu nodi’n benodol mewn cynigion a’u darparu i’r Aelodau ar adeg cyflwyno cynigion. Bydd hynny yn osgoi creu unrhyw argraff bod gofynion Rheolau Sefydlog yn cael eu diystyru a bydd yn rhoi cyfle i Aelodau o bob plaid gyflwyno gwelliannau gyda’r holl ffeithiau perthnasol ger eu bron ac yn rhoi digon o amser iddynt wneud hynny. Gobeithiaf fod hynny o gymorth.

Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 74

Owen John Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 74

Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwnnw, mae’r cynnig yn cyfeirio at y ddogfen. Felly, mae pwynt Gareth yn berthnasol, onid yw ef?

Further to that point of order, the motion does refer to the document. Therefore, Gareth’s point is relevant, is it not?

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 74

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 74

The motion does not refer to a document; its wording is as follows:

Ni chyfeiria’r cynnig at ddogfen; mae ei eiriad fel a ganlyn:

‘welcomes progress on the roll-out of early years provision across Wales and the Minister’s proposals for a Foundation Phase.’

‘yn croesawu’r cynnydd o ran cyflwyno darpariaeth y blynyddoedd cynnar ledled Cymru a chynigion y Gweinidog ar gyfer Cyfnod Sylfaen.’

As I read that, there is no reference to any document.

Fel y darllenaf hynny, nid oes cyfeiriad at unrhyw ddogfen.

Owen John Thomas spoken in English p. 74

Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 74

In the Welsh, Dirprwy Lywydd, ‘cyfnod sylfaen’ is capitalised. That is because it is the title of a document.

Yn y Gymraeg, Ddirprwy Lywydd, mae’r geiriau ‘cyfnod sylfaen’ â phriflythrennau a hynny am mai teitl dogfen ydyw.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 75

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 75

We will not stop this debate. However, I will refer your comments to the Presiding Officer who understands these differences between the languages and, if necessary, he will consider the matter further. The important point is that, where substantial documents will clearly be helpful to a debate, it is only right that the Government should table a motion referring to those documents and then make those documents available a day before in accordance with Standing Orders. Members of the Government have heard my remarks. I will consult with the Presiding Officer and I am confident that this situation will not arise in future. Let us now continue with the debate.

Ni fyddwn yn atal y ddadl hon. Fodd bynnag, cyfeiriaf eich sylwadau at y Llywydd sy’n deall y gwahaniaethau hyn rhwng yr ieithoedd ac, os oes angen, bydd yn ystyried y mater ymhellach. Y pwynt pwysig yw ei bod yn gwbl deg bod y Llywodraeth, lle y bydd dogfennau gwreiddiol yn amlwg o gymorth i ddadl, yn cyflwyno cynnig sy’n cyfeirio at y dogfennau hynny ac yna’n darparu’r dogfennau hynny sydd ar gael ddiwrnod ymlaen llaw yn unol â’r Rheolau Sefydlog. Clywodd Aelodau o’r Llywodraeth fy sylwadau. Ymgynghoraf â’r Llywydd ac yr wyf yn ffyddiog na fydd y sefyllfa hon yn codi yn y dyfodol. Gadewch inni barhau â’r ddadl.

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 75

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 75

I propose the following amendment tabled my name. Amendment 1: add at the end of the motion

Cynigiaf y gwelliant canlynol a gyflwynwyd yn fy enw i. Gwelliant 1: ychwanegu ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

Jonathan Morgan (continued) spoken in English p. 75

Jonathan Morgan (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 75

I am pleased that we can proceed with the debate. To help Plaid Cymru Members, perhaps we could recommend to the Minister that we use some of our adult learning resources to send them on a speed-reading course, so that, in future, when these documents are produced late, they can get through them at a quicker pace.

Yr wyf yn falch ein bod yn gallu parhau â’r ddadl. Er mwyn helpu Aelodau Plaid Cymru, efallai y gallwn argymell i’r Gweinidog ein bod yn defnyddio rhai o’n hadnoddau dysgu i oedolion i’w hanfon ar gwrs darllen yn gyflym fel y bydd modd iddynt, yn y dyfodol, pan gaiff y dogfennau hyn eu cyflwyno’n hwyr, eu darllen yn gyflymach.

The Welsh Conservative Party welcomes any commitment to improve young children’s education at the traditional nursery and primary school stages. We know from the previous work undertaken that there is a wealth of evidence, mostly from mainland European countries, that suggests that constructive play can be a useful way of educating children and can support the concept of an educational continuum from age three through to the traditional primary school age and into secondary schooling. We do, therefore, support the review being undertaken and the Minister’s emphasis on this aspect of policy. Reading through the document, I was struck by how similar many of the proposals and much of the detail and the background were to the work undertaken by the Pre-16 Education Committee on early years learning. That report was taken on board by its successor, the Education and Lifelong Learning Committee, and a further report was published two years ago. I am pleased that this has built on that. In recent weeks, we have experienced real plagiarism in London on another subject altogether; I am pleased to see that the Minister has been to the same school of academic plagiarism, because there is much good work in that initial report. I am pleased that the Minister has been able to regurgitate the work of the Pre-16 Education Committee. However, I do not believe that the report that the Minister has published adequately refers to the work of the Pre-16 Education Committee. It says that it builds upon the work of the Committee, but not enough has been done to highlight that excellent work. In reading the Minister’s report, you automatically assume that it is completely new and that the policy proposals are the result of research and work that was undertaken recently, but, in fact, this work is over two years old. We have not done enough to acknowledge the Pre-16 Education Committee’s achievements.

Mae Plaid Geidwadol Cymru yn croesawu unrhyw ymrwymiad i wella addysg plant bach yn ystod cyfnodau traddodiadol yr ysgol feithrin a’r ysgol gynradd. Gwyddom o’r gwaith a wnaed eisoes fod cyfoeth o dystiolaeth, yn bennaf o wledydd cyfandirol Ewrop, sy’n awgrymu y gall chwarae adeiladol fod yn ffordd ddefnyddiol o addysgu plant ac y gall ategu’r cysyniad o gontinwwm addysgol o dair blwydd oed hyd at yr oedran traddodiadol pan fydd plant yn dechrau yn yr ysgol gynradd ac i mewn i’w haddysg uwchradd. Felly, cefnogwn yr adolygiad a gynhelir a phwyslais y Gweinidog ar yr agwedd hon ar y polisi. Wrth ddarllen drwy’r ddogfen, fe’m tarwyd gan y ffaith bod llawer o’r cynigion a’r manylion a’r cefndir mor debyg i’r gwaith a wnaed gan y Pwyllgor Addysg Cyn 16 ar ddysgu yn y blynyddoedd cynnar. Derbyniwyd yr adroddiad hwn gan y pwyllgor olynol, y Pwyllgor Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes, a chyhoeddwyd adroddiad arall ddwy flynedd yn ôl. Yr wyf yn falch bod hwn yn adeiladu ar yr adroddiad hwnnw. Yn ystod yr wythnosau diwethaf, yr ydym wedi gweld llen-ladrad gwirioneddol yn Llundain ar bwnc cwbl wahanol; yr wyf yn falch o weld bod y Gweinidog wedi mynychu’r un ysgol o len-ladrad academaidd, am fod llawer o waith da yn yr adroddiad cychwynnol hwnnw. Yr wyf yn falch bod y Gweinidog yn gallu ailgyfodi gwaith y Pwyllgor Addysg Cyn 16. Fodd bynnag, ni chredaf fod yr adroddiad a gyhoeddwyd gan y Gweinidog yn cyfeirio’n ddigon at waith y Pwyllgor Addysg Cyn 16. Dywed yr adroddiad ei fod yn adeiladu ar waith y Pwyllgor, ond ni wnaed digon i dynnu sylw at y gwaith ardderchog hwnnw. Wrth ddarllen adroddiad y Gweinidog, byddwch yn cymryd yn ganiataol mai gwaith cwbl newydd ydyw a bod y cynigion ar bolisi yn ffrwyth ymchwil a gwaith a wnaed yn ddiweddar, ond, mewn gwirionedd, gwnaed y gwaith hwn ddwy flynedd yn ôl. Nid ydym wedi gwneud digon i gydnabod cyflawniadau’r Pwyllgor Addysg Cyn 16.

Our amendment still stands even though the Minister said that she was committed to providing extra resources. She could commit herself by voting for it and letting her voting record show that she is committed to providing those adequate resources now and in the next months when that money may be required.

Saif ein gwelliant o hyd er i’r Gweinidog ddweud ei bod yn ymrwymo i ddarparu adnoddau ychwanegol. Gallai ymrwymo drwy bleidleisio drosto a gadael i’w chofnod pleidleisio ddangos ei bod yn ymrwymo i ddarparu’r adnoddau digonol hynny yn awr ac yn y misoedd nesaf pan fo angen arian.

There are concerns in three areas. First, in terms of staffing and training, the initial report undertaken by the Pre-16 Education Committee considered recruitment and training problems. One of the recommendations for the nursery school setting included developing an early years website to support training and pre-school development. I do not know whether there has been any movement on that front and whether the Minister will now take that recommendation forward, not only for pre-school pupils, but also for those at the foundation stage.

Mae pryderon ynglŷn â thri maes. Yn gyntaf, o ran staffio a hyfforddiant, ystyriodd adroddiad cychwynnol y Pwyllgor Cyn 16 broblemau o ran recriwtio a hyfforddi. Yr oedd un o’r argymhellion ar gyfer ysgolion meithrin yn cynnwys datblygu gwefan y blynyddoedd cynnar er mwyn cefnogi hyfforddiant a datblygiad cyn oed ysgol. Ni wn a oes unrhyw ddatblygiadau o ran hynny ac a fydd y Gweinidog yn gweithredu ar yr argymhelliad hwnnw yn awr, nid yn unig ar gyfer disgyblion cyn oed ysgol, ond hefyd ar gyfer y disgyblion yn y cyfnod sylfaen.

On school buildings, if the classroom setting, as was suggested in recent press comments, is not suitable for all young children, and therefore the idea of a playscheme should be introduced, then the fabric of a school building also plays an important part. If it is a question of unsuitable classroom settings, then the setting and fabric the building must change to deliver what the Minister expects in this strategy. If that is the case, then money will need to be found in order to provide an appropriate setting for this foundation stage.

O ran adeiladau ysgol, os nad yw’r ystafell ddosbarth, fel yr awgrymwyd mewn sylwadau diweddar yn y wasg, yn addas ar gyfer pob plentyn bach, ac felly y dylid cyflwyno’r syniad o gynllun chwarae, yna mae adeiladwaith adeilad ysgol hefyd yn chwarae rhan bwysig. Os oes lleoliadau ystafell ddosbarth anaddas, yna rhaid newid lleoliad a ffabrig yr adeilad er mwyn cyflawni yr hyn a ddisgwylia’r Gweinidog yn y strategaeth hon. Os yw hynny’n wir, yna bydd angen dod o hyd i arian i ddarparu lleoliad addas ar gyfer y cyfnod sylfaen hwn.

On the development of bilingual settings, it is not only a question of a lack of money, but also a lack of teaching staff. I remind the Minister that the Pre-16 Education Committee undertook a huge amount of work in supporting Mudiad Ysgolion Meithrin and in calling for the expansion of that sector to realise the amount of demand for Welsh-medium pre-school play groups.

O ran datblygu lleoliadau dwyieithog, nid mater o ddiffyg arian ydyw, ond diffyg staff addysgu hefyd. Hoffwn atgoffa’r Gweinidog i’r Pwyllgor Addysg Cyn 16 wneud cryn dipyn o waith i gefnogi Mudiad Ysgolion Meithrin a galw am ehangu’r sector hwnnw i ateb y galw am gylchoedd chwarae cyn oed ysgol drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg.

I admit that that is only one part of what the Minister announced today. However, a great deal of what the Pre-16 Education Committee achieved—and a great deal that was included in its report, which is not included in her report—should inform the work that was undertaken on the foundation phase. To develop the three to seven-year-old phase, the work and recommendations—many of which have not been developed since the initial report was published two years ago—need to be included in your forward work programme and your recommendations. Further to that, there are many similarities between the reports, and many failings. Your report refers to a common quality assurance scheme for settings in Wales, but the report published two years ago states that the Care Stardards Inspectorate for Wales and Estyn should promote national standards and also recommended that the all-Wales early years advisers should monitor progress and report to local education authorities. I accept that that is needed for pre-school education, but would that then be used to monitor progress in the foundation phase for three to seven-year-olds?

Cyfaddefaf mai dim ond rhan o’r hyn a gyhoeddwyd gan y Gweinidog heddiw ydyw. Fodd bynnag, dylai cryn dipyn o’r hyn a gyflawnodd y Pwyllgor Addysg Cyn 16—a chryn dipyn o’r hyn a oedd yn adroddiad y Pwyllgor, nad yw wedi’i gynnwys yn adroddiad y Gweinidog—lywio’r gwaith a wnaed ar y cyfnod sylfaen. Er mwyn datblygu cyfnod plant tair i saith mlwydd oed, mae angen cynnwys y gwaith a’r argymhellion—nad yw llawer ohonynt wedi eu datblygu ers i’r adroddiad cychwynnol gael ei gyhoeddi ddwy flynedd yn ôl—yn eich blaen raglen waith ac yn eich argymhellion. Ymhellach at hynny, mae’r adroddiadau yn cynnwys llawer o bethau tebyg, a llawer o ddiffygion. Cyfeiria eich adroddiad at gynllun sicrwydd ansawdd cyffredin ar gyfer lleoliadau yng Nghymru, ond noda’r adroddiad a gyhoeddwyd ddwy flynedd yn ôl mai Arolygiaeth Safonau Gofal Cymru ac Estyn ddylai hyrwyddo safonau cenedlaethol ac argymhellodd hefyd y dylai cynghorwyr y blynyddoedd cynnar Cymru gyfan fonitro cynnydd a rhoi adroddiadau i awdurdodau addysg lleol. Derbyniaf fod angen hynny ar gyfer addysg cyn oed ysgol, ond a gâi hynny ei ddefnyddio wedyn ar gyfer monitro’r cynnydd yn y cyfnod sylfaen i blant rhwng tair a saith mlwydd oed?

Finally, we are not doing enough to strengthen the role of parents in educating their children. This issue needs firm commitment from the Assembly Government because parents are involved in traditional pre-school settings and in primary school settings. They will want their children to develop educationally as well as in terms of their ability to play. We must remember that play is important, but that children are in school ultimately to learn. We must be able to demonstrate that play is an important part of that learning process.

Yn olaf, nid ydym yn gwneud digon i atgyfnerthu rôl rhieni i addysgu eu plant. Mae angen i Lywodraeth y Cynulliad ymrwymo i’r mater hwn am fod rhieni yn rhan o leoliadau cyn oed ysgol traddodiadol ac mewn lleoliadau ysgol gynradd. Byddant am i’w plant ddatblygu’n addysgol yn ogystal â datblygu eu gallu i chwarae. Rhaid inni gofio bod chwarae yn bwysig ond mai mynd i’r ysgol i ddysgu a wna’r plant yn y bôn. Rhaid inni allu dangos bod chwarae yn rhan bwysig o’r broses ddysgu honno.

Gareth Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 78

Gareth Jones spoken in Welsh p. 78

Diolchaf i Jonathan Morgan am gynnig i mi fynychu cwrs er mwyn darllen dogfennau’n gyflym. Estynnaf yr un gwahoddiad iddo ef i fynychu cwrs sy’n gwella’r cof oherwydd codwyd nifer o’r pwyntiau hyn gan Blaid Cymru yn ein dadl ar y cwricwlwm cenedlaethol yng Ngorffennaf 2002. Pan soniwch am len-ladrad, darllenwch y Cofnod, ac fe welwch fod nifer o’r syniadau da hyn wedi’u cynnwys yn ein dadl bryd hynny. Collasom y ddadl honno oherwydd agweddau negyddol rhai o aelodau’r grŵp Llafur ar y pryd. Fodd bynnag, mae tröedigaeth Damascus i’w groesawu bob amser, ac yr wyf yn falch bod y Llywodraeth bellach yn gweld rhinweddau yn yr argymhellion cwricwlaidd hynny a gynigiwyd gennym, er y byddai’n ormod efallai i ddisgwyl iddi gydnabod hynny.

I thank Jonathan Morgan for suggesting that I attend a speed reading course in order to read documents quickly. I extend the same invitation to him to attend a memory improvement course as many of these points were raised by Plaid Cymru in our debate on the national curriculum in July 2002. When you talk about plagiarism, read the Record, and you will see that many of these good ideas were included in our debate at that time. We lost that debate because of the negative attitude of some Labour group Members at the time. However, a Damascene conversion is always welcome, and I am glad that the Government now sees some merit in our proposals for the curriculum, although perhaps it would be too much to expect it to acknowledge that.

Fodd bynnag, dylem longyfarch y swyddogion yn yr Adran Addysg sy’n cyflwyno’r ddogfen hon fel dogfen ymgynghorol. Mae’n cyfeirio at rai o’r problemau presennol yn y cyfnod hwn, sydd angen eu datrys. Er enghraifft, mae plant yn treulio gormod o amser yn gwneud tasgau wrth eistedd wrth y bwrdd yn lle dysgu drwy weithgareddau chwarae sydd wedi’u cynllunio’n dda. Mae rhai agweddau ar ddysgu yn wan mewn 40 y cant o wersi cyfnod allweddol 1. Ychydig o bwyslais a roddir ar ddatblygu mynegiant creadigol y plentyn, ac mae hynny’n wendid. Yn ogystal, fel y soniodd Jonathan, mae cyflwr anfoddhaol yr adeiladau yn aml yn cyfyngu ar faint y gofod ar gyfer chwarae a gweithgaredd ymarferol y tu fewn a thu allan i’r ysgol.

However, we should congratulate the officials in the Education Department, who present this document as a consultative document. It refers to some of the present problems in this phase, which need to be resolved. For example, children are spending too much time doing tasks while sitting at the table rather than learning through well-planned play activities. Some aspects of teaching are weak in 40 per cent of key stage 1 lessons. Little emphasis is placed on the child’s creative expression, and that is a weakness. In addition, as Jonathan mentioned earlier, the inadequate condition of buildings often restricts the amount of space for play and practical activities inside and outside the school.

Mae pennod tri o’r ddogfen yn cyfeirio at yr angen am gontinwwm dysgu rhwng geni a saith oed. Yr wyf yn falch o hynny gan inni gyfeirio yn ein dadl y llynedd at bwysigrwydd gwasanaethau integreiddiedig ar gyfer plant o’u geni hyd at dair blwydd oed fel sylfaen i ddatblygiad addysgol y plentyn. Dylid sefydlu’r diwylliant dysgu yn y cyfnod cynnar hwn. Ni dderbyniwyd y pwynt hwnnw gan nifer o aelodau’r grwp Llafur bryd hynny, a bydd yn ddiddordol clywed eu hymateb y prynhawn yma.

Chapter three of the document refers to the need for a learning continuum between birth and seven years of age. I am pleased about that because, in our debate last year, we referred to the importance of integrated services for children from birth up to three years of age as a foundation for the educational development of the child. The learning culture should be established at this early stage. That point was not accepted by many members of the Labour group at the time, and it will be interesting to hear their response this afternoon.

Cyfeiria’r ddogfen at yr her o gael y disgyblion eu hunain i gynllunio ac adolygu eu gwaith. Y cwestiwn mawr yw sut i wneud hynny—mae’n sialens. Byddwn yn darllen yr ymateb i’r cwestiwn pwysig hwnnw yn ofalus. Cafodd nifer o aelodau’r Pwyllgor Addysg Cyn-16 gynt—a chyfeiriwyd at hyn hefyd—y fraint o wrando ar arbenigwyr ym maes addysg gynnar. Un o’r prif bwyntiau a wnaethpwyd—ac ni anghofiaf hyn—oedd pa mor bwysig yw chwarae a dygsu’n naturiol, ac na ddylid, ar unrhyw gyfrif, adael i blentyn deimlo bod ef neu hi yn methu, o’u cymharu â phlant eraill. Byddai profiad negyddol felly yn gallu andwyo plentyn am weddill ei oes, ac efallai na fyddai’r effaith i’w gweld nes bod y plentyn yn ei arddegau. Yr wyf yn siŵr bod yr Aelodau yn cofio’r pwynt hwnnw.

The document refers to the challenge of getting the pupils themselves to plan and review their work. The big question is how to do that—it is a challenge. We will be reading the response to that important question carefully. Many members of the former Pre-16 Education Committee—and reference has also been made to this—had the privilege of listening to experts in early years education. One of the main points that was made—and I will not forget this—was the importance of playing and learning naturally and that, on no account, should a child feel that he or she is failing compared with other children. That kind of negative experience could damage a child for the rest of his or her life, and the effect would perhaps not be seen until the child was in his or her teens. I am sure that Members remember that point.

Pwysleisiodd yr arbenigwyr rôl hyfforddiant pwrpasol a chymwysterau addas. Yr ydym yn wan yn y maes hwnnw yng Nghymru, ac mae angen mynd ati o ddifrif i hyfforddi ar gyfer y maes addysg cynnar. Cefnogaf welliant 1 Jonathan Morgan, yn enwedig o ystyried anghenion cyfrwng Cymraeg a goblygiadau ‘Iaith Pawb’ ynghylch y ddarpariaeth a’r pwyslais mae’r adroddiad hwnnw’n ei roi ar y blynyddoedd cynnar.

The experts emphasised the role of suitable training and qualifications. We are weak in that area in Wales, and we must seriously tackle training for the early years education sector. I support Jonathan Morgan’s amendment 1, especially considering Welsh-medium needs and the implications of ‘Iaith Pawb’ regarding the provision and the emphasis that that document places on the early years.

Un o agweddau hollbwysig ac allweddol y ddogfen yw asesu. Rhaid bod yn ofalus yn hyn o beth, a diddorol fydd gweld yr ymateb. Ni ddylid cynyddu baich biwrocrataidd yr athrawon. Dylid ymddiried llawer yng ngallu proffesiynol yr athrawon i adnabod cynnydd ac anghenion y plentyn er mwyn cynorthwyo’r plentyn a’i rieni. Ni ddylid rhoi gormod o waith papur i athrawon, sy’n ymyrryd â’r amser sydd ei angen i feithrin y berthynas rhwng y plentyn a’i athro a’r rhieni. Hapusrwydd a chynnydd y plentyn yw’r nod, a hynny mewn awyrgylch gynhaliol a chysurus.

One of the most essential and central aspects of the document is assessment. We must be careful here, and it will be interesting to see the response. The bureaucratic burden on teachers should not be increased. We should trust the teachers’ professional ability to recognise a child’s progress and needs in order to help the child and his or her parents. We should not burden teachers with too much paperwork, which interferes with the time needed to develop the relationship between the teacher and the child and the parents. The aim is to ensure the happiness and progress of the child, in a supportive and comfortable environment.

Cytunaf â’r bwriad, ac edrychaf ymlaen at yr ymateb. Mae’r Pwyllgor Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes bellach wedi derbyn tystiolaeth ac wedi trafod nifer o’r agweddau yn y ddogfen gyda chynrychiolwyr ysgolion Steiner, er enghraifft, ac yr wyf yn falch o weld ffrwyth y trafodaethau hynny’n cael eu hamlygu.

I agree with the intention, and I look forward to the response. The Education and Lifelong Learning Committee has received evidence and discussed many aspects of the document with representatives from Steiner schools, for example, and I am pleased to see those discussions bearing fruit today.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 80

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 80

I will not impose a time limit, but not everyone will have an opportunity to contribute unless Members limit their speeches to three minutes. If that is possible, that would be welcome, but I will leave it to Members to decide. If they feel that they have something to say that will take longer, I will allow five minutes.

Ni osodaf derfyn amser, ond ni fydd cyfle gan bawb i gyfrannu oni bai bod Aelodau yn cyfyngu ar eu hareithiau i dair munud. Os yw’n bosibl, byddai hynny i’w groesawu, ond gadawaf hynny i’r Aelodau benderfynu. Os teimlant eu bod am draethu am fwy na hynny, caniatâf bum munud iddynt.

Mick Bates spoken in English p. 80

Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 80

The Welsh Liberal Democrats welcome the new provision for a foundation phase, as suggested in the consultation paper. Providing stimulation in those early years is vital for gaining a broad range of experiences, which is important when setting learning patterns. Young children are placed in the formal education system far too soon. Research from the continent shows that that does not increase their abilities at all. In fact, introducing reading and writing too early on has the reverse effect. In order to achieve a quality education system in Wales, it is vital to recognise the importance of creativity and the need for young children to play and to use their imagination so that they learn to read and write at the right time. That time has been shown to be between the ages of six and seven, which is when the foundation phase ends.

Mae Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru yn croesawu’r ddarpariaeth newydd ar gyfer cyfnod sylfaen, fel yr awgrymir yn y papur ymgynghori. Mae ysgogi plant yn y blynyddoedd cynnar hynny yn allweddol iddynt gael ystod eang o brofiadau, sy’n bwysig o ran gosod patrymau dysgu. Gosodir plant bach yn y system addysg ffurfiol yn llawer rhy gynnar. Dengys ymchwil o’r cyfandir nad yw hynny yn gwella eu galluoedd o gwbl. Yn wir, mae dysgu plant i ddarllen ac ysgrifennu yn rhy gynnar yn cael effaith i’r gwrthwyneb. Er mwyn darparu system addysg o safon yng Nghymru, mae’n holl bwysig cydnabod pwysigrwydd creadigrwydd a’r angen i blant bach chwarae a defnyddio eu dychymyg er mwyn iddynt ddysgu i ddarllen ac ysgrifennu ar yr adeg gywir. Dangoswyd mai’r adeg honno yw rhwng chwech a saith mlwydd oed, sef ar ddiwedd y cyfnod sylfaen.

From my own experience, the two hardest days I spent as a teacher was when I taught a class of infants—the demands were incredible. Since that time, I have had the greatest respect for those who teach in this foundation phase. I hear some laughter behind me—Jonathan Morgan has obviously never taught such a class.

O’m profiad fy hun, y ddau ddiwrnod mwyaf anodd a dreuliais fel athro oedd pan ddysgais ddosbarth o fabanod—yr oedd y gofynion yn anhygoel. Ers hynny, mae gennyf barch mawr tuag at y rhai sy’n dysgu yn y cyfnod sylfaen hwn. Clywaf rywun yn chwerthin y tu ôl imi—mae’n amlwg nad yw Jonathan Morgan erioed wedi dysgu dosbarth o’r fath.

We must be sure that we have sufficient people to meet the needs that will arise from extending the foundation phase from the ages of three to seven. Skilled staff form a vital component of rolling out this extra provision. We all wish to see best practice. Jonathan referred to the quality of buildings; the environment is important in stimulating the learning process in those early years. We need to pay attention to ensure that that physical environment is well provided for. That is why I relate this issue to the announcement that the Minister made last week with regard to the £9 million that will be invested in school buildings. I assume that that money will be available for early years education as well.

Rhaid inni fod yn siŵr fod gennym ddigon o bobl i ddiwallu’r anghenion a gyfyd o estyn y cyfnod sylfaen i blant rhwng tair a saith mlwydd oed. Mae staff medrus yn elfen holl bwysig o’r broses o gyflwyno’r ddarpariaeth ychwanegol hon. Yr ydym oll am weld arferion gorau. Cyfeiriodd Jonathan at ansawdd adeiladau; mae’r amgylchedd yn bwysig o ran symbylu’r broses ddysgu yn y blynyddoedd cynnar hynny. Mae angen inni roi mwy o sylw i sicrhau ein bod yn darparu’n dda ar gyfer yr amgylchedd ffisegol hwnnw. Dyna pam y cysylltaf y mater hwn â’r cyhoeddiad a wnaeth y Gweinidog yr wythnos diwethaf o ran y £9 miliwn a gaiff ei fuddsoddi mewn adeiladau ysgolion. Cymeraf y bydd yr arian hwnnw ar gael ar gyfer addysg y blynyddoedd cynnar hefyd.

I also welcome the Venn diagram in the document that shows the overlap between the document’s aims: I support that process. Recognising bilingualism and multi-culturism is important. Equally, the evidence that representatives of Steiner schools gave on schools for the future showed that valuable experiences enable pupils to feel included rather than excluded in the education process. That is important. I would like to see an increasing emphasis on including pupils in the learning process embodied in this foundation phase.

Croesawaf hefyd y diagram Venn yn y ddogfen sy’n dangos y gorgyffwrdd rhwng nodau’r ddogfen: cefnogaf y broses honno. Mae cydnabod dwyieithrwydd ac amlddiwylliannaeth yn bwysig. Yn yr un modd, dangosodd y dystiolaeth a roddwyd gan gynrychiolwyr o ysgolion Steiner am ysgolion y dyfodol fod profiadau gwerthfawr yn galluogi disgyblion i deimlo eu bod yn cael eu cynnwys yn y broses addysg yn hytrach na’u heithrio ohoni. Mae hynny yn bwysig. Hoffwn weld pwyslais cynyddol ar gynnwys disgyblion yn y broses ddysgu a ymgorfforir yn y cyfnod sylfaen hwn.

I welcome this document; it is part of the Minister’s open and consensual agenda. I am certain that it will lead to a better quality of education in Wales.

Croesawaf y ddogfen hon; mae’n rhan o agenda agored a chydsyniol y Gweinidog. Yr wyf yn sicr y bydd yn arwain at addysg o ansawdd gwell yng Nghymru.

David Melding spoken in English p. 81

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 81

My ability to speed-read is somewhat limited, therefore, I apologise if what I say will be made redundant when the Minister replies and points out that what I want to see in the report is already in it. It seems to me that there is no reference to special needs, and in particular to children who have complex health needs. I refer the Minister to the Health and Social Services Committee’s recent report on children with special health needs. We heard evidence from parents which stated that, the more intense the needs of your child were, the less likely it was for those children to receive pre-school education. In the critical period when children are aged between three and five, parents are not being supported and, equally important, the children are not given the level of stimulation and encouragement that they need. It is vital that they receive a combination of education and therapy that meets their requirements at that age so that they can go on to achieve their maximum potential when they enter formal schooling. It also has the benefit of providing, in effect, respite care for the parents concerned.

Ni feddaf ar y gallu i ddarllen yn gyflym iawn, felly, ymddiheuraf os bydd yr hyn a ddywedaf yn ofer pan fydd y Gweinidog yn ymateb ac yn nodi bod yr hyn yr wyf am ei weld yn yr adroddiad eisoes ynddo. Ymddengys imi nad oes unrhyw gyfeiriad at anghenion arbennig, ac yn enwedig at blant sydd ag anghenion iechyd cymhleth. Cyfeiriaf at adroddiad diweddar y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol ar blant ag anghenion iechyd arbennig. Clywsom dystiolaeth gan rieni a nododd mai po ddwysaf oedd anghenion y plant, y lleiaf tebygol y cânt addysg cyn oed ysgol. Yn y cyfnod tyngedfennol pan fo plant rhwng tair a phum mlwydd oed, ni chaiff rhieni eu cefnogi, ac, yr un mor bwysig, ni chaiff y plant eu hysgogi a’u hannog i’r graddau sydd eu hangen arnynt. Mae’n hollbwysig y cânt gyfuniad o addysg a therapi sy’n bodloni eu gofynion ar yr oedran hwnnw fel y gallant fynd yn eu blaenau i wireddu eu potensial llawn pan fyddant yn dechrau addysg ffurfiol. Mae hefyd yn fanteisiol o ran darparu gofal seibiant, i bob diben, i’r rhieni dan sylw.

As decision-makers, we must recognise that our priorities can cause the most perverse effects. If we emphasise the need for pre-school education, on which I believe we all agree, and overlook the particular needs of these children and their carers, we will miss a chance to address a fundamental shortcoming. It cannot be right that children with the most complex health and educational needs are not adequately supported at present and, in some areas, do not receive any placements at all. Therefore I hope, if the paper does not address this issue—I accept that I simply may not have spotted it in the time available—that in what I am sure will be an open consultation exercise, this issue will be addressed and that the Minister will, either directly or through her officials, consider the Health and Social Services Committee’s report.

Fel rhai sy’n gwneud penderfyniadau, rhaid inni gydnabod y gall ein blaenoriaethau arwain at yr effeithiau mwyaf croes. Os pwysleisiwn yr angen am addysg cyn oed ysgol, y credaf fod pob un ohonom yn cytuno yn ei chylch, a diystyru anghenion penodol y plant hyn a’u gofalwyr, byddwn yn colli cyfle i fynd i’r afael â diffyg sylfaenol. Nid yw’n iawn na chaiff y plant â’r anghenion iechyd ac addysgol mwyaf cymhleth ddigon o gymorth ar hyn o bryd ac, mewn rhai ardaloedd, nid oes unrhyw leoliadau o gwbl ar eu cyfer. Felly, gobeithiaf, os nad yw’r papur yn ymdrin â’r mater hwn—a derbyniaf na sylwais arno o bosibl yn yr amser a oedd ar gael—yr ymdrinnir â’r mater hwn mewn ymgynghoriad a fydd, mae’n siŵr gennyf, yn agored ac y bydd y Gweinidog naill ai’n uniongyrchol neu drwy ei swyddogion, yn ystyried adroddiad y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol.

Delyth Evans siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 82

Delyth Evans spoken in Welsh p. 82

Croesawaf y papur hwn yn fawr, a chredaf ei bod yn gywir i’r Cynulliad roi blaenoriaeth glir i’r cyfnod allweddol hwn yn natblygiad plant. Yn ystod y misoedd diwethaf, rhoddwyd llawer o sylw i gyfrifoldeb y wladwriaeth tuag at fyfyrwyr mewn addysg uwch ac addysg bellach, a deallaf pam y rhoddwyd y sylw hwnnw. Fodd bynnag, os ydym o ddifrif ynglŷn â chreu cymdeithas decach, a chynnig cyfle cyfartal i unigolion, mae angen inni dargedu ein hadnoddau a’n sylw ar y blynyddoedd cynnar, oherwydd mai dyna’r cyfnod lle y byddwch yn gwneud y gwahaniaeth pennaf o ran datblygu’r unigolyn mewn ffordd a fydd yn agor pob math o bosibiliadau iddo yn y dyfodol.

I greatly welcome this paper and I believe that it is right that the Assembly gives clear priority to this key phase in children’s development. During the past months, much attention has been focused on the state’s responsibility towards students in higher and further education, and I understand why attention has been given to that issue. However, if we are serious about creating a fairer society, and offering equality of opportunity to individuals, we must target our resources and attention on the early years, as that is when you make the major difference in terms of developing individuals in a way that opens up all kinds of possibilities for them in future.

Yn yn maes hwn yn arbennig, dylwn dargedu ein sylw a’n hadnoddau ar ein cymunedau difreintiedig. Mae pob math o ymchwil wedi dangos y byddai plentyn nad yw’n ddeallus ac o deulu breintiedig yn perfformio’n well na phlentyn deallus o deulu difreintiedig, mewn cymuned ddifreintiedig, erbyn tua pump neu chwech oed. Dyna pryd mae’r naill yn dechrau croesi’r llall, ac o hynny ymlaen, bydd y plentyn llai deallus o deulu breintiedig yn cael pob math o gyfleon mewn bywyd na fydd ar gael i’r plentyn difreintiedig er mai’r plentyn difreintiedig yw’r un mwyaf deallus ar y cychwyn. Byddai ymyrryd yn y blynyddoedd cynnar hynny yn cael yr effaith fwyaf i helpu’r plant ifanc hyn ddatblygu yn y ffordd orau er mwyn eu dyfodol a’r cyfraniad y gallant ei wneud i Gymru. Felly, dyna’r lle yr wyf am inni roi ffocws a chanoli ein hadnoddau, a chroesawaf yr agwedd hon yn fawr.

In this area in particular, we should target our attention and resources on our deprived communities. All kinds of research has shown that a child who is not intelligent and from a privileged family will perform better than an intelligent child from a disadvantaged family, in a disadvantaged community, by the age of five or six years old. That is when one starts to overtake the other and, from then on, the less intelligent child will have all kinds of opportunities in life that will not be available to the disadvantaged child, even though the disadvantaged child is the more intelligent one at the beginning. Intervening in those early years would have the biggest impact on helping those children to develop to the best of their ability for the sake of their future and their potential contribution to Wales. Therefore, that is where I want us to focus and concentrate our resources, and I warmly welcome this approach.

Mae’r cyfnod sylfaen hwn hefyd yn allweddol i’n hymrwymiad at greu Cymru ddwyieithog. Croesawaf y pwyslais ar gynnig y cyfleoedd mwyaf y gallwn eu rhoi i blant ac i deuluoedd sydd am gynnig addysg dwyieithog i’w plant, gan osod y sylfeini tra bod y plentyn yn fwyaf agored i addysg o’r math hwn—nid yn unig yn y Gymraeg, ond mewn ieithoedd eraill hefyd. Hoffwn inni ganolbwyntio yn fwy ar gynnig ieithoedd eraill i blant yn y cyfnod cynnar hwn. Yr wyf wedi gweld, o’m profiad i gyda’m plant, mai dyma’r oedran pan fyddant yn dysgu ieithoedd gyflymaf, pan fyddant yn eu dysgu orau, a phan fyddant yn elwa fwyaf ar y cyfleoedd hynny.

This foundation phase is also key to our commitment to creating a bilingual Wales. I welcome the emphasis on providing the greatest possible opportunities to children and to families who want to give their children a bilingual education, by laying the foundations when the child is most open to education of this kind—not only in Welsh but also in other languages. I want us to concentrate more on offering other languages to children at this early stage. My experience with my own children has shown me that this is the age when they learn languages the fastest, when they learn them best, and when they will benefit most from those opportunities.

Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 83

Owen John Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 83

Datganaf fuddiant gan fod fy ngwraig yn bennaeth adran y blynyddoedd cynnar. Mae’r papur hwn yn braf ac yn iachusol gan ei fod yn dangos parodrwydd i gydnabod a rhestru diffygion a phroblemau cyffredin addysg cyfnod allweddol 1. Nid ydym yn gyfarwydd â’r agwedd hon, sydd yn un iach. Croesawaf hefyd barodrwydd awduron y papur i ehangu eu gorwelion drwy gyfeirio at arferion da mewn gwledydd tramor, megis Denmarc a Seland Newydd, i enwi ond dwy.

I declare an interest as my wife is the head of an early years department. This paper is good and heartening as it shows a willingness to acknowledge and list the general deficiencies and problems in key stage 1 education. We are not used to this attitude; it is a healthy one. I also welcome the authors’ willingness to be outward-looking by referring to good practice in countries such as Denmark and New Zealand, to name but two.

Fodd bynnag, hoffwn leisio pryder nad yw rhieni sydd eisiau i’w plant teirblwydd dderbyn addysg cyfrwng Cymraeg yn cael cyfle cyfartal o ran darpariaeth a’i chost. Dywedwch wrth Aelodau o hyd mai mater i awdurdodau lleol yw hwn. A gaf gyfle i drafod y mater â chi cyn bo hir?

However, I would like to voice a concern: parents who want their three-year-old children to receive a Welsh-medium education are not afforded equality of opportunity in terms of the provision and its cost. You always tell Members that this is a matter for local authorities. May I have an opportunity to discuss this issue with you in the near future?

Yr wyf yn falch bod y rhaglen heriol a chynhwysfawr yn ymestyn o Fedi 2003 hyd Fedi 2008, ac yn cynnwys cynlluniau i hyfforddi staff a chynorthwywyr presennol a rhai newydd. Fel un a welodd y dull blaengar hwn ar waith gyda phlant o gartrefi di-Gymraeg mewn uned feithrin Gymraeg, yr wyf yn dyst o’i lwyddiant i roi trysorfa o eiriau a chystrawennau Cymraeg i blant teirblwydd oed drwy gyflwyno amrediad eang o brofiadau cyfoethog drwy chwarae strwythuredig, a gweithgareddau megis canu, pobi, garddio a chelf a chrefft syml. Mae hyn yn gyfle gwych i hyrwyddo dwyieithrwydd, fel y mae’r ddogfen yn cydnabod. Fodd bynnag, o ystyried y pwysigrwydd a roddir ar gael cymhareb ffafriol o oedolion i blant, sef un athro i bob wyth plentyn, o’i gymharu â’r gymhareb bresennol o un athro i bob 13 plentyn, bydd yn rhaid inni siapio os ydym am gael yr holl staff angenrheidiol.

I am pleased that the challenging and comprehensive programme will cover the period from September 2003 to September 2008, and includes schemes to train current staff and assistants as well as new ones. As someone who has seen this innovative approach being used with children from non-Welsh-speaking homes in a Welsh-medium nursery unit, I have witnessed its success in giving three-year-olds a wealth of Welsh words and constructions through presenting a wide range of valuable experiences through structured play, and activities such as singing, baking, gardening and basic arts and crafts. This is an excellent opportunity to promote bilingualism, as is acknowledged in the document. However, given the importance placed on ensuring a favourable ratio of adults to children, namely one teacher per eight children, compared with the current ratio of one teacher per 13 children, we must get our act together if we are to get all the necessary staff.

Rhaid inni hefyd ennill cefnogaeth y staff presennol, yn arbennig y rhai sy’n dysgu ym mlynyddoedd 1 a 2, gan y bydd y dull hwn yn tyfu drwy’r system ac yn effeithio ar ddysgu yn y blynyddoedd hynny. Mae’r athrawon wedi cael eu hyfforddi i weld y tair ‘R’ fel y mesur pwysicaf o allu a chynnydd plant. Mae’r pwyslais yma ar sgiliau plant a’u geirfa, a byddwn ar ein colled os nad ydym yn sicrhau ein bod yn cynnwys y rhai sy’n dysgu dosbarthiadau uwch yn hyn. Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn ennill cefnogaeth a brwdfrydedd yr athrawon eraill. Mae’n bwysig hefyd y dechreuir hyfforddi athrawon a chynorthwywyr cyn gynted â phosibl, oherwydd bydd angen cannoedd ohonynt i sicrhau’r gymhareb o un athro i bob wyth plentyn a sicrhau y gellir cwrdd â’r galw ychwanegol am addysg Gymraeg a amlygwyd mewn archwiliad hwyr.

We must also gain the support of current staff, particularly those who teach in years 1 and 2, as this approach will develop through the system and will affect teaching in those years. Teachers have been trained to view the three ‘R’s’ as the most important measure of a child’s ability and progress. The emphasis here is on children’s skills and their vocabulary, and we will lose out if we do not ensure that we take those who teach older classes with us on this. It is important that we gain the support and enthusiasm of other teachers. It is also important that we start to train teachers and assistants as quickly as possible, as hundreds will be required to ensure a ratio of one teacher per eight children and that we can meet the increased demand for Welsh-medium education which was identified in a late audit.

Jane Davidson The Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning spoken in English p. 84

Jane Davidson Y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 84

I am grateful for Members’ contributions. I will pick up on some general themes. I visited Edwardsville Infants School in Treharris today to award it a basic skills quality mark. The headteacher told me that the key issue is ensuring that children are not told that they have failed at the age of seven. That is one of the main purposes of these proposals and that is why we abolished the key stage 1 tests. She described parents being in tears because their children had not met a test target, when it was impossible for that child to do so at that point in his or her development. She had carefully read the consultation document on the website before my visit because she wanted to be able to tell me her broad opinion of it. She simply said ‘thank you’ for the way in which the Assembly Government is listening to the consensus of views. There is a consensus of views—which is why there has been a slightly undignified wrangle among Members about who was there first—among practitioners, parents and politicians, all of whom believe that this is the right way forward. These proposals have been tested on a wide group of people through the early years advisory group.

Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am gyfraniadau’r Aelodau. Ymdriniaf â rhai themâu cyffredinol. Ymwelais ag Ysgol Babanod Edwardsville yn Nhreharris heddiw i wobrwyo nod ansawdd sgiliau sylfaenol iddi. Dywedodd y pennaeth wrthyf mai’r mater allweddol yw sicrhau na ddywedir wrth blant eu bod wedi methu yn saith mlwydd oed. Dyna un o brif amcanion y cynigion hyn a dyna pam y diddymwyd profion cyfnod allweddol 1 gennym. Disgrifiodd y pennaeth rieni yn eu dagrau am nad oedd eu plant wedi cyrraedd targed prawf, pan oedd yn amhosibl i’r plentyn hwnnw wneud hynny ar yr adeg honno yn ei ddatblygiad. Darllenodd y ddogfen ymgynghori yn ofalus ar y wefan cyn fy ymweliad am ei bod am allu rhoi ei barn yn fras imi. Y cyfan a ddywedodd oedd ‘diolch yn fawr’ am y ffordd y mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn gwrando ar gytundeb barn. Mae cytundeb barn—a dyna pam y bu ffrae braidd yn anweddus ymhlith yr Aelodau ynghylch pwy a gefnogodd hyn yn gyntaf—ymhlith ymarferwyr, rhieni a gwleidyddion, y cred pob un ohonynt mai hon yw’r ffordd gywir ymlaen. Rhoddwyd prawf ar y cynigion hyn ymhlith grŵp eang o bobl drwy’r grŵp ymgynghorol y blynyddoedd cynnar.

I will pick up on the points relating to special educational needs. David Melding, we have addressed this the other way around: that is, there are substantial references to dealing with the early years in the special educational needs code of practice. I am aware of the work carried out by the Health and Social Services Committee and have discussed it with the Minister for Health and Social Services. Statements can be given to children from the age of two, and we are keen on early intervention. As there is a long timescale for consultation on these proposals, I expect to receive specific proposals on how we can make this work. I am keen on that, as we have made a substantial commitment as a Government to tackling SEN issues, and have gained Wales-only powers on this in the education legislation. I want opportunities for early intervention to be implemented.

Ymdriniaf â’r pwyntiau sy’n ymwneud ag anghenion addysg arbennig. David Melding, yr ydym wedi ymdrin â hyn fel arall: hynny yw, mae cryn nifer o gyfeiriadau at y blynyddoedd cynnar yn y cod ymarfer anghenion addysg arbennig. Yr wyf yn ymwybodol o’r gwaith a wnaed gan y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol ac wedi ei drafod gyda’r Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol. Gellir rhoi datganiad i blant o ddwy flwydd oed ymlaen, ac yr ydym yn awyddus i ymyrryd yn gynnar. Gan fod cyfnod hir ar gyfer ymgynghori ar y cynigion hyn, disgwyliaf gael cynigion penodol ar sut y gallwn roi hyn ar waith. Yr wyf yn awyddus i hynny ddigwydd, gan ein bod wedi gwneud ymrwymiad sylweddol fel Llywodraeth i fynd i’r afael â materion AAA, ac wedi cael pwerau i Gymru yn unig ar hyn, yn y ddeddfwriaeth addysg. Yr wyf am i gyfleoedd i ymyrryd yn gynnar gael eu gweithredu.

The point raised by Delyth is crucial; we have seen many times, and are constantly reminded by the Basic Skills Agency, that children may appear to start on an equal footing in school, but that inequality grows quickly. That inequality is not related to the quality of the school but, rather, to children’s backgrounds and the level of support that they receive. Many young children start school without listening, playing or social skills. In those countries where such problems have been tackled, it has been proved that children will learn better, that there will be better literacy and numeracy rates among 11-year-olds and that more 17-year-olds will stay on at school. That is why we are following that model.

Mae’r pwynt a godwyd gan Delyth yn un hollbwysig; yr ydym wedi gweld droeon, a chawn ein hatgoffa’n gyson gan yr Asiantaeth Sgiliau Sylfaenol, y gall plant ddechrau yn yr ysgol yn gyfartal yn ôl pob golwg, ond bod anghydraddoldeb yn datblygu’n gyflym. Nid yw’r anghydraddoldeb hwnnw yn ymwneud ag ansawdd yr ysgol, ond yn hytrach, cefndir y plant a faint o gymorth a gânt. Mae llawer o blant bach yn dechrau yn yr ysgol heb sgiliau gwrando, sgiliau chwarae na sgiliau cymdeithasol. Yn y gwledydd hynny lle yr eir i’r afael â phroblemau o’r fath, profwyd y bydd plant yn dysgu’n well, y bydd gwell cyfraddau llythrennedd a rhifedd ymhlith plant 11 mlwydd oed ac y bydd mwy o bobl ifanc 17 mlwydd oed yn aros ymlaen yn yr ysgol. Dyna pam yr ydym yn dilyn y model hwnnw.

When we make the part-time places available in 2004, I cannot guarantee that every three-year-old child will have the place of their choice, not least because great challenges lie ahead in terms of ensuring that we have enough highly-qualified practitioners. That is why we have put massive extra investment into the training of Welsh-medium practitioners. We want to look at the complex nexus of existing qualifications and rationalise them to create a better and simpler approach. We must ensure that all practitioners have a well-developed learning pathway. I will ensure—if I am there to make sure—that we will make this agenda work and that Wales will be a learning country. This Government has taken up the challenge of the consensus view and is delivering on it.

Pan fyddwn yn darparu lleoedd rhan-amser yn 2004, ni allaf warantu y caiff pob plentyn tair blwydd oed le o’i ddewis, yn bennaf am fod heriau mawr o’n blaenau o ran sicrhau bod gennym ddigon o ymarferwyr â chymwysterau da. Dyna pam yr ydym wedi buddsoddi swm enfawr ychwanegol mewn hyfforddi ymarferwyr Cymraeg. Yr ydym am ystyried y cysylltiadau cymhleth rhwng cymwysterau sy’n bodoli eisoes a’u rhesymoli i greu ymagwedd well a symlach. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod pob ymarferwr yn meddu ar lwybr dysgu datblygedig iawn. Byddaf yn sicrhau—os byddaf yma i sicrhau—y byddwn yn gwneud i’r agenda hon lwyddo ac y bydd Cymru yn wlad sy’n dysgu. Mae’r Llywodraeth hon wedi ateb her y farn gyffredin ac mae’n gweithredu arni.

Gwelliant 1 Jonathan Morgan t. 86

Amendment 1 Jonathan Morgan p. 86

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 14 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 23

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment rejected.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (14)
  • Nick Bourne
  • Cynog Dafis
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • William Graham
  • Brian Hancock
  • David Ian Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Janet Ryder
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
Yn erbynAgainst (23)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas

Cynnig NDM1348 Jane Davidson t. 87

Motion NDM1348 Jane Davidson p. 87

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 38 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (38)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Jane Davidson
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Brian Hancock
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • David Ian Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas

Dadl Fer

Short Debate

Yr Argyfwng Tai Trefol

The Urban Housing Crisis

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 88

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 88

I request that any Members leaving the Chamber do so quietly.

Gofynnaf i unrhyw Aelodau sy’n gadael y Siambr i wneud hynny’n dawel.

Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 88

Owen John Thomas spoken in Welsh and English p. 88

Yr wyf wedi caniatáu munud i William Graham gyfrannu i’r ddadl. Nid wyf wedi derbyn unrhyw geisiadau eraill i gyfrannu i’r ddadl.

in Welsh I have allowed William Graham a minute to contribute to the debate. I have not received any other requests to contribute to the debate.

Several factors have come together in recent years and have created a crisis in the availability of social housing. The right-to-buy scheme has led to a huge reduction in the social housing stock. Westminster’s restrictions on new build in this sector has made it impossible, overall, to replenish the numbers of houses sold. The loss of tens of thousands of comparatively well-paid manufacturing jobs has contributed to the growth of a substantial minority who are excluded from the immediate prospect of owning their own homes. Between 1991 and 2001, the percentage of homebuyers aged 25 and under dropped from 20 per cent to 9 per cent.

yn Saesneg Mae sawl ffactor wedi cyfuno dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf ac wedi creu argyfwng o ran argaeledd tai cymdeithasol. Mae’r cynllun hawl i brynu wedi arwain at ostyngiad mawr yn y stoc tai cymdeithasol. Mae cyfyngiadau San Steffan ar dai newydd a adeiladir yn y sector hwn wedi ei gwneud yn amhosibl, yn gyffredinol, i atgyflenwi nifer y tai a werthir. Mae colli miloedd ar filoedd o swyddi gweithgynhyrchu sy’n talu’n gymharol dda wedi cyfrannu at dwf lleiafrif sylweddol na chânt y cyfle ar hyn o bryd i brynu eu cartrefi eu hunain. Rhwng 1991 a 2001 syrthiodd canran y prynwyr tai 25 mlwydd oed a iau o 20 y cant i 9 y cant.

There has been a huge increase in the cost of housing, which has seen the value of small terraced houses in some parts of Wales rise from £45,000 four years ago to £95,000 today. Such houses are at the lower end of the market in our capital city but are now only accessible through a mortgage loan to individuals with an annual income of at least £27,000. The city’s average gross wage is £22,000, which is well below the sum required to obtain a mortgage to buy a small terraced house in the city. It must also be remembered that most young people receive a wage that is much lower than the average wage.

yn Saesneg Bu cynnydd mawr yng nghost tai, a gwelwyd gwerth tai teras bach mewn rhai rhannau o Gymru yn codi o £45,000 bedair blynedd yn ôl i £95,000 heddiw. Mae tai o’r fath ar ben isaf y farchnad yn ein prifddinas ond dim ond drwy fenthyciad morgais i unigolion ag incwm blynyddol o £27,000 o leiaf y gellir eu prynu. Cyflog gros y ddinas ar gyfartaledd yw £22,000, sydd ymhell o dan y swm sy’n ofynnol i gael morgais i brynu tŷ teras bach yn y ddinas. Rhaid cofio hefyd bod y rhan fwyaf o bobl ifanc yn ennill cyflog sydd yn llawer is na’r cyflog cyffredin.

In several towns and cities, the growth of universities has led to properties that were hitherto used to provide rented flats and maisonettes for young couples being almost exclusively put to more profitable use by landlords as student accommodation. The fact that the landlords of student housing do not have to meet the costly and stringent regulations placed on other rented accommodation, nor be liable to pay local taxation, has caused a huge decrease in the availability of rented flats in university towns. In the meantime, the Westminster Government is dragging its feet over a promise that it made in 1997 to introduce a Bill licensing houses in multiple occupation. As these privately-rented student properties are close to town centres, this leads to more and more low-paid local people having to face expensive daily journeys to work from the outskirts of town.

yn Saesneg Mewn sawl tref a dinas, mae twf prifysgolion wedi golygu bod yr eiddo a ddefnyddiwyd yn flaenorol i ddarparu fflatiau a maisonettes ar osod i barau ifanc yn cael eu defnyddio’n fwy buddiol gan landlordiaid fel llety i fyfyrwyr bron yn gyfan gwbl. Mae’r ffaith nad oes rhaid i landlordiaid tai myfyrwyr fodloni’r rheoliadau costus a llym a osodir ar fathau eraill o lety ar osod na’u bod ychwaith yn gorfod talu trethi lleol wedi achosi gostyngiad mawr yn nifer y fflatiau ar osod sydd ar gael mewn trefi prifysgol. Yn y cyfamser, mae Llywodraeth San Steffan yn llusgo ei thraed ynghylch addewid a wnaeth yn 1997 i gyflwyno Mesur yn trwyddedu tai amlfeddiant. Gan fod y tai myfyrwyr hyn ar osod yn breifat yn agos i ganolfannau tref, golyga hyn fod mwy o bobl leol ar gyflogau isel yn gorfod wynebu teithiau dyddiol costus i’r gwaith o gyrion y dref.

Many areas of social housing have become blighted with boarded-up houses, causing those on waiting lists to shy away from the prospect of living in the midst of such deprivation. Some local authorities have cut back on the presence of area housing offices, and this has increased the frustration of those seeking help or advice regarding housing repairs or provision. For many on low incomes, Westminster’s removal of mortgage income tax relief, together with the increase in stamp duty, has seen their names added to the growing housing lists.

yn Saesneg Amharwyd ar sawl ardal tai cymdeithasol gan dai lle mae estyll wedi eu gosod ar y ffenestri a’r drysau, gan beri i’r rheini sydd ar restrau aros i newid eu meddwl ynglŷn â byw ynghanol y fath amddifadedd. Mae rhai awdurdodau lleol wedi cwtogi ar bresenoldeb swyddfeydd tai ardal, ac mae hyn wedi cynyddu rhwystredigaeth y rheini sy’n ceisio cymorth neu gyngor o ran atgyweirio neu ddarparu tai. I lawer o bobl ar incwm isel, maent wedi gweld eu henwau yn cael eu hychwanegu at y restrau tai cynyddol yn sgîl y ffaith bod San Steffan wedi dileu rhyddhad treth incwm morgais, ynghyd â chodi’r doll stamp.

In the wake of the combination of these circumstances, it is not surprising that there are 8,000 individuals on the Cardiff waiting list while the city’s stock of publicly-owned social houses is falling at a rate of 400 properties a year. Ironically, while this crisis is developing apace, on the doorstep of the National Assembly in Cardiff bay hundreds of expensive flats have been built; many of which are only used for certain parts of the year or for three or four days a week. Some, although unoccupied, provide their owners not so much with a home as with a profitable investment.

yn Saesneg Yn sgîl cyfuno’r amgylchiadau hyn, nid yw’n syndod bod 8,000 o unigolion ar restr aros Caerdydd tra bod stoc y ddinas o dai cymdeithasol sy’n eiddo i’r cyhoedd yn gostwng ar gyfradd o 400 eiddo y flwyddyn. Yn eironig, wrth i’r argyfwng hwn ddatblygu’n gyflym, wrth ymyl y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol ym mae Caerdydd adeiladwyd cannoedd o fflatiau drud; y defnyddir llawer ohonynt am rannau o’r flwyddyn neu am dri neu bedwar diwrnod yr wythnos yn unig. Mae rhai, er nad ydynt yn wag, yn fuddsoddiad buddiol i’w perchnogion yn hytrach nag yn gartref iddynt.

New Labour’s lack of social commitment to meet the housing needs of those on low incomes is in sharp contrast with its readiness to risk lives and billions of pounds of taxpayers’ money by going to war with a distant country.

yn Saesneg Mae diffyg ymrwymiad cymdeithasol Llafur Newydd i ddiwallu anghenion tai y rheini ar incwm isel mewn cyferbyniad llwyr â’i pharodrwydd i beryglu bywydau a biliynau o bunnoedd o arian trethdalwyr drwy fynd i ryfel gyda gwlad bell.

Throughout Wales, when the right-to-buy scheme was first implemented, there were almost 300,000 dwellings rented from the social housing sector. Today, the total number of dwellings in the social housing sector has fallen from 300,000 to 240,000 and, as a percentage share of all households, it has dropped from 30 per cent to 18.5 per cent. In Cardiff, the relevant percentage fall has been from 27.5 per cent of the total housing stock in 1981 to 19 per cent today. Latest estimates, made in the absence of a thorough housing audit, place the cost of the backlog for repair and renovation of social housing stock across Wales at over £1.5 billion.

yn Saesneg Ledled Cymru, pan weithredwyd y cynllun hawl i brynu am y tro cyntaf, yr oedd y sector tai cymdeithasol yn gosod bron 300,000 o anheddau ar rent. Heddiw, mae cyfanswm yr anheddau yn y sector tai cymdeithasol wedi gostwng o 300,000 i 240,000 ac, fel cyfran ganrannol o’r holl gartrefi, mae wedi gostwng o 30 y cant i 18.5 y cant. Yng Nghaerdydd, bu’r gostyngiad canrannol perthnasol o 27.5 y cant o gyfanswm y stoc tai yn 1981 i 19 y cant heddiw. Mae’r amcangyfrifon diweddaraf, a wnaed gan nad oedd archwiliad tai trylwyr ar gael, yn nodi bod cost y gwaith atgyweirio ac adnewyddu stoc tai cymdeithasol sydd wedi cronni ledled Cymru yn fwy na £1.5 biliwn.

Such a critical situation requires a radical response. Members of all parties know that Westminster spin will not provide an answer for the people of Wales. As a National Assembly, we must use our existing powers to the utmost to address this housing crisis and its associated problems. However, we must also turn on Westminster, and, without mincing our words, demand that it makes the necessary changes to Treasury rules to allow local authorities more freedom to borrow to renovate publicly-owned social housing. In the event that it rejects that reasonable request, we should demand that it cede the legislative and fiscal powers necessary for us to put our own house in order. In the meantime, the National Assembly must agree and implement a cluster of policies that will accelerate repair and renovation, and close the gap between the demand for affordable housing and its provision.

yn Saesneg Mae sefyllfa hollbwysig o’r fath yn galw am ymateb radical. Gŵyr aelodau pob plaid na fydd sbin San Steffan yn darparu ateb i bobl Cymru. Fel Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, rhaid inni ddefnyddio ein pwerau presennol i’r eithaf i fynd i’r afael â’r argyfwng tai hwn a’i broblemau cysylltiedig. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni droi ar San Steffan hefyd, a siarad yn blwmp ac yn blaen, gan fynnu ei bod yn gwneud y newidiadau angenrheidiol i reolau’r Trysorlys i ganiatáu mwy o ryddid i awdurdodau lleol fenthyca i adnewyddu tai cymdeithasol sy’n eiddo i’r cyhoedd. Pe bai’n gwrthod y cais rhesymol hwnnw, dylem fynnu ei bod yn ildio’r pwerau deddfwriaethol ac ariannol angenrheidiol i ni roi trefn ar bethau yma. Yn y cyfamser, rhaid i’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol gytuno a gweithredu clwstwr o bolisïau a fydd yn cyflymu’r gwaith atgyweirio ac adnewyddu, a chau’r bwlch rhwng y galw am dai fforddiadwy a’r hyn a ddarperir.

Local authorities used to receive enough borrowing entitlement from central Government to build and maintain council housing stock, but nowadays the public sector borrowing requirement restricts our authorities to such an extent that they can no longer build anew or maintain social housing to keep up with the demand.

yn Saesneg Arferai awdurdodau lleol gael digon o hawl i fenthyca gan Lywodraeth ganolog i adeiladu a chynnal stoc o dai cyngor, ond y dyddiau hyn mae gofyniad benthyca’r sector cyhoeddus yn cyfyngu ein hawdurdodau i’r fath raddau fel na allant bellach adeiladu o’r newydd na chynnal tai cymdeithasol i ateb y galw.

Cardiff, which has 8,000 people on its waiting list, has only built 18 council-owned houses in the last three years, while it has sold over 1,200 houses under the right-to-buy scheme during the same period. The provision of houses rented from housing associations, which only represent 7.25 per cent of the city’s total housing stock, is supposedly combating this decrease. The waiting list for social housing and the problems brought to the surgeries of local Assembly Members and councillors is more than ample testimony to the extent of this crisis, particularly within our capital city.

yn Saesneg Dim ond 18 o dai sy’n eiddo i’r cyngor a adeiladwyd gan Gaerdydd yn y tair blynedd diwethaf, ond mae 8,000 o bobl ar ei rhestr aros ac mae wedi gwerthu dros 1,200 o dai o dan y cynllun hawl i brynu yn ystod yr un cyfnod. Mae darparu tai ar osod gan gymdeithasau tai, sef dim ond 7.25 y cant o gyfanswm stoc tai y ddinas, yn gwrthsefyll y gostyngiad hwn yn ôl pob tebyg. Mae’r rhestr aros ar gyfer tai cymdeithasol a’r problemau a ddygir i gynghorfeydd Aelodau’r Cynulliad a chynghorwyr lleol yn fwy na digon o dystiolaeth o raddau’r argyfwng hwn, yn arbennig o fewn ein prifddinas.

I would like to see the following strategies implemented with a view to maximising the use of existing stock and new build in order to enhance the opportunities for local people on low incomes to obtain homes within their communities. A record should be compiled showing the full extent of the provision, condition, demand and supply of housing in Wales. An application should be made for Treasury rules to be changed to enable local authorities to adequately fund publicly-owned social housing. The Welsh Assembly Government, in exploring additional or alternative means of tackling this crisis, should consider setting up a company, similar in structure to Glas Cymru, to circumvent the restrictions of the public sector borrowing requirement and provide local authorities with funding at a rate that would enable them to carry out their core duties in the housing sector effectively. There should be an increased budget for homebuy. The covenants on purchase and resale under the right-to-buy scheme for council-owned housing, should be extended from rural areas into urban areas such as Cardiff, where the gap between provision and demand is pricing local people out of the housing market.

yn Saesneg Hoffwn weld y strategaethau canlynol yn cael eu rhoi ar waith gyda’r nod o ddefnyddio’r stoc presennol i’r eithaf ac adeiladu tai newydd er mwyn gwella’r cyfleoedd i bobl leol ar incwm isel gael tai o fewn eu cymunedau. Dylid llunio cofnod yn dangos graddau llawn y ddarpariaeth, y cyflwr, y galw a’r cyflenwad o dai yng Nghymru. Dylid gwneud cais i reolau’r Trysorlys gael eu newid i alluogi awdurdodau lleol i ariannu tai cymdeithasol sy’n eiddo i’r cyhoedd yn ddigonol. Dylai Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru, wrth ymchwilio i ffyrdd ychwanegol neu amgen o fynd i’r afael â’r argyfwng hwn, ystyried sefydlu cwmni, yn debyg o ran strwythur i Glas Cymru, i osgoi cyfyngiadau gofyniad benthyca’r sector cyhoeddus a darparu arian i awdurdodau lleol ar gyfradd a fyddai’n eu galluogi i gyflawni eu dylestwyddau craidd yn y sector tai yn effeithiol. Dylai fod mwy o gyllideb ar gael ar gyfer homebuy. Dylai’r cyfamodau ar brynu ac ailwerthu o dan y cynllun hawl i brynu i dai sy’n eiddo i’r cyngor gael eu hymestyn o ardaloedd gwledig i ardaloedd trefol megis Caerdydd, lle mae’r bwlch rhwng darpariaeth a galw yn prisio pobl leol allan o’r farchnad dai.

Local authorities should not be forced into a wild rush towards stock transfer. However, where it appears—after due consideration of all alternatives, including changing Treasury rules—that council-owned housing stock is unlikely to be repaired within a reasonable time, the option should be put to the tenants of transferring the stock to the care of a tripartite company forming an equal partnership of representatives of the tenants, the local council and the general community.

yn Saesneg Ni ddylid gorfodi awdurdodau lleol i ruthro’n wyllt i drosglwyddo stoc. Fodd bynnag, lle yr ymddengys—ar ôl ystyried pob dewis amgen yn ofalus, gan gynnwys newid rheolau’r Trysorlys—nad yw tai sy’n eiddo i’r cyhoedd yn debygol o gael eu hatgyweirio o fewn cyfnod rhesymol o amser, dylid rhoi’r dewis i’r tenantiaid drosglwyddo’r stoc i ofal cwmni teiran i lunio partneriaeth gyfartal o gynrychiolwyr y tenantiaid, y cyngor lleol a’r gymuned gyffredinol.

Investment should be made to reuse boarded-up houses as part of local regeneration schemes, which would accelerate progress in resolving the housing crisis and enhance the environment and the economy through the use of skilled local craftsmen. Relevant examples of good regeneration practice should be identified and emulated throughout the country.

yn Saesneg Dylid buddsoddi i ailddefnyddio tai lle mae estyll wedi eu gosod ar y ffenestri a’r drysau fel rhan o gynlluniau adfywio lleol, a fyddai’n cyflymu’r gwaith o ddatrys yr argyfwng tai a gwella’r amgylchedd a’r economi drwy ddefnyddio crefftwyr lleol medrus. Dylid nodi enghreifftiau perthnasol o arfer adfywio da a’u hefelychu ledled y wlad.

Welsh local authorities have in the region of £750 million in their coffers from the sale of former council houses but, at present, can only spend up to 25 per cent of that amount. We should petition the UK Government to bring forward its long-promised Bill on houses in multiple occupation at the earliest possible date, and also petition it to further amend leasehold legislation to make freehold purchase a cheaper, quicker and more transparent process.

yn Saesneg Mae gan awdurdodau lleol Cymru tua £750 miliwn yn eu coffrau ar ôl gwerthu hen dai cyngor ond, ar hyn o bryd, dim ond hyd at 25 y cant o’r swm hwnnw y gallant ei wario. Dylem gyflwyno deiseb i Lywodraeth y DU i gyflwyno ei Mesur a addawyd ers amser ar dai amlfeddiant cyn gynted â phosibl a chyflwyno deiseb hefyd i ddiwygio deddfwriaeth prydlesu ymhellach i wneud prynu eiddo rhydd-ddaliadol yn broses ratach, cyflymach a mwy tryloyw.

William Graham spoken in English p. 92

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 92

I am grateful to Owen John Thomas for bringing this to the attention of the Assembly, and particularly for describing the problems facing young married couples and others who are seeking to own their own houses in Cardiff. There are no easy solutions and the problems will continue.

Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i Owen John Thomas am ddod â hyn at sylw’r Cynulliad, ac yn arbennig am ddisgrifio’r problemau sy’n wynebu parau priod ifanc ac eraill sy’n ceisio prynu eu tai eu hunain yng Nghaerdydd. Nid oes atebion hawdd a bydd y problemau yn parhau.

He was also right to identify those people who are homeless, as there is a scandalous number of empty council houses, especially in Cardiff. That should not be allowed to continue. Given that we discussed fines for bedblocking this morning, fining local authorities for allowing houses to remain empty and in a decaying state might be a route of action. I also agree with Owen John that legislation on houses in multiple occupation should be introduced as soon as possible. It has been promised for many years, but is yet to be implemented.

Yr oedd yn iawn hefyd i nodi’r bobl hynny sy’n ddigartref, gan fod nifer cywilyddus o dai cyngor gwag, yn enwedig yng Nghaerdydd. Ni ddylid caniatáu i hyn barhau. O gofio inni drafod dirwyon am flocio gwelyau y bore yma, gallai dirwyo awdurdodau lleol am ganiatáu i dai aros yn wag ac mewn cyflwr sy’n dirywio fod yn un ffordd o weithredu. Cytunaf hefyd ag Owen John y dylid cyflwyno deddfwriaeth ar dai amlfeddiant cyn gynted â phosibl. Addawyd hyn ers blynyddoedd lawer ond ni chafodd ei weithredu eto.

As you might have guessed, I do not agree with his summation of the right-to-buy scheme, because all those houses remain in the housing market and it is a perfectly natural aspiration to want to own your own house. Statistics show that the owners of houses that were bought from local authorities often remain in that house for at least 10 years, which is considerably longer than the average life of a mortgage. I am grateful for the opportunity to make those remarks this afternoon.

Fel yr ydych wedi dyfalu efallai, ni chytunaf â’i grynodeb o’r cynllun hawl i brynu, oherwydd erys yr holl dai hynny yn y farchnad dai ac mae eisiau bod yn berchen ar eich tŷ eich hun yn uchelgais hollol naturiol. Dengys ystadegau fod perchnogion tai a brynwyd oddi wrth awdurdodau lleol yn aml yn aros yn y tŷ hwnnw am o leiaf 10 mlynedd, sydd yn sylweddol hwy na bywyd morgais ar gyfartaledd. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am y cyfle i wneud y sylwadau hynny y prynhawn yma.

Peter Black The Deputy Minister for Local Government spoken in English p. 92

Peter Black Y Dirprwy Weinidog dros Lywodraeth Leol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 92

We have heard a fair amount in this debate about the difficulties facing the housing sector in urban Wales, but to describe it as a crisis is, I believe, an exaggeration. During our discussions with representatives of housing organisations we have heard about many individual problems which we recognise need to be tackled with vigour. However, it is clear that insufficient attention has been paid to investment in housing for over 20 years and we are now reaping the legacy of that. Since coming to power, the Welsh Assembly Government has striven to redress the balance through ‘Better Homes for People in Wales’, the first national strategy on housing in Wales. It provides the strategic context for taking forward our policies on housing—policies that span all tenures and all locations, whether urban or rural. However, we must recognise that the assessment of the local housing situation and the response to it is the responsibility of local authorities. This is in accord with the Assembly’s policy of empowering organisations that are best placed to address local needs.

Clywsom gryn dipyn yn y ddadl hon am yr anawsterau sy’n wynebu’r sector tai yng Nghymru wledig, ond gorddweud yn fy marn ni yw ei ddisgrifio fel argyfwng. Yn ystod ein trafodaethau gyda chynrychiolwyr sefydliadau tai clywsom am lawer o broblemau unigol y cydnabyddwn fod angen mynd i’r afael â hwy yn egnïol. Fodd bynnag, mae’n amlwg na roddwyd digon o sylw i fuddsoddi mewn tai ers dros 20 mlynedd ac yn awr wynebwn ganlyniadau hynny. Ers dod i rym, mae Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru wedi ymdrechu i unioni’r fantol drwy ‘Cartrefi Gwell i Bobl Cymru’, y strategaeth genedlaethol gyntaf ar dai yng Nghymru. Darpara’r cyd-destun strategol ar gyfer datblygu ein polisïau ar dai—polisïau a all rychwantu pob deiliadaeth a phob lleoliad, boed yn drefol neu’n wledig. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni gydnabod mai cyfrifoldeb awdurdodau lleol yw asesu’r sefyllfa dai leol ac ymateb iddi. Mae hyn yn unol â pholisi’r Cynulliad o rymuso sefydliadau sydd yn y sefyllfa orau i ymdrin ag anghenion lleol.

To ensure that housing issues are tackled locally in a systematic way we have issued guidance to local authorities on developing local housing strategies. This should result in robust, locally-agreed strategies for dealing with local issues and priorities being in place by April 2004. We have backed this up with support and guidance for local authorities to undertake housing needs assessments and to analyse the wider housing market. All of this provides the right framework for local authorities and other organisations to deliver what is needed at a local level.

Er mwyn sicrhau yr eir i’r afael â materion tai mewn ffordd systematig, yr ydym wedi cyhoeddi canllawiau i awdurdodau lleol ar ddatblygu strategaethau tai lleol. Dylai hyn arwain at strategaethau cadarn, y cytunwyd arnynt yn lleol ar gyfer delio â materion lleol a sicrhau bod blaenoriaethau ar waith erbyn Ebrill 2004. Ategwyd hyn gyda chymorth a chanllawiau i awdurdodau lleol ymgymryd ag asesiadau anghenion tai ac i ddadansoddi’r farchnad dai ehangach. Mae hyn i gyd yn darparu’r fframwaith cywir i awdurdodau lleol a sefydliadau eraill ddarparu’r hyn sydd ei angen ar lefel leol.

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 93

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 93

Like you, I sat through a presentation from Housing Forum Cymru, which consists of the Chartered Institute of Housing in Wales and representatives from the housing associations, in this morning’s meeting of the Local Government and Housing Committee. It underlined the fact that insufficient money is being made available for housing by this Government, as did the Welsh Local Government Association’s presentation a few months ago. You stressed that at the beginning of your speech. Do you intend to tell us that you will address that issue or are you going to mention, once again, all the money that has gone into homelessness, care and repair and other areas? We accept that, but it is the social housing grant that really needs to be looked at.

Fel chi, eisteddais drwy gyflwyniad gan Fforwm Tai Cymru, sy’n cynnwys y Sefydliad Tai Siartredig yng Nghymru a chynrychiolwyr o gymdeithasau tai, yng nghyfarfod y Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai y bore yma. Tanlinellodd y ffaith nad yw’r Llywodraeth hon yn sicrhau bod digon o arian ar gael ar gyfer tai, fel y gwnaeth cyflwyniad Cymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru rai misoedd yn ôl. Pwysleisiwyd hynny gennych ar ddechrau eich araith. A fwriadwch ddweud wrthym a fyddwch yn ymdrin â’r mater hwnnw neu a ydych yn mynd i sôn, unwaith yn rhagor, am yr holl arian a wariwyd ar ddigartrefedd, gofal ac atgyweirio a meysydd eraill? Derbyniwn hynny, ond y grant tai cymdeithasol yw’r un y mae gwir angen ei ystyried.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 94

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 94

What I said was that there was 20 years of underinvestment prior to the Assembly’s establishment. We have started to address that in the last few years by increasing the amount of money that is available for housing.

Yr hyn a ddywedais oedd y bu 20 mlynedd o danfuddsoddi cyn sefydlu’r Cynulliad. Yr ydym wedi dechrau ymdrin â hynny yn yr ychydig flynyddoedd diwethaf drwy gynyddu swm yr arian sydd ar gael ar gyfer tai.

Janet Ryder a gododd—

Janet Ryder rose—

Peter Black spoken in English p. 94

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 94

Let me finish what I am saying. The social housing grant has increased, as has the money available for capital investment in housing. However, we must also recognise that we are faced with a bill of between £1.5 billion and £2 billion to meet the Welsh housing quality standard and that sort of money is not available in the Welsh Assembly. As I said in the Committee meeting this morning, we must find other ways of bringing that money into housing in Wales.

Gadewch imi orffen yr hyn yr wyf yn ei ddweud. Mae’r grant tai cymdeithasol wedi cynyddu, fel y gwnaeth yr arian sydd ar gael ar gyfer buddsoddiad cyfalaf mewn tai. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni gydnabod hefyd ein bod yn wynebu bil o rhwng £1.5 biliwn a £2 biliwn i gyrraedd safon ansawdd tai Cymru ac nid yw’r math hwnnw o arian ar gael yng Nghynulliad Cymru. Fel y dywedais yng nghyfarfod y Pwyllgor y bore yma, rhaid inni ddod o hyd i ffyrdd eraill o ddod â’r arian hwnnw i mewn i’r sector tai yng Nghymru.

Janet Ryder a gododd—

Janet Ryder rose—

Peter Black spoken in English p. 94

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 94

I do not want to start a dialogue because I would like to move on, but if you want to make one more point, please do.

Nid wyf am ddechrau trafodaeth oherwydd hoffwn barhau, ond os ydych am wneud un pwynt arall, gwnewch hynny.

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 94

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 94

You set the Welsh housing quality standard, but you have just said that you will not be able to meet that standard; it is you who said that it must be met by 2012. How are local authorities supposed to do that?

Chi a osododd safon ansawdd tai Cymru, ond yr ydych newydd ddweud na fyddwch yn gallu cyrraedd y safon honno; chi a ddywedodd fod yn rhaid ei chyrraedd erbyn 2012. Sut y disgwylir i awdurdodau lleol wneud hynny?

Peter Black spoken in English p. 94

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 94

I did not say that we will not meet that standard. It is a clear target for the Welsh Assembly Government. What I said is that we must find ways of bringing money into the housing sector to meet that standard. We will be working with local government to find ways to do that.

Ni ddywedais na fyddwn yn cyrraedd y safon honno. Mae’n darged clir i Lywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru. Yr hyn a ddywedais oedd bod yn rhaid inni ddod o hyd i ffyrdd o roi arian i’r sector tai i gyrraedd y safon honno. Byddwn yn gweithio gyda llywodraeth leol i ganfod ffyrdd o wneud hynny.

On the Welsh housing quality standard, ‘Better Homes for People in Wales’ emphasises that all households should have the opportunity to live in good quality homes. The Welsh housing quality standard is a common target to achieve this, and we are trying to meet it by 2012. We know that the required additional investment will be high and we are working with local authorities to try to find that investment, so that it can be brought into the housing sector.

O ran safon ansawdd tai Cymru, pwysleisia ‘Cartrefi Gwell i Bobl Cymru’ y dylai pob teulu gael y cyfle i fyw mewn tai o safon. Mae safon ansawdd tai Cymru yn darged cyffredin i gyflawni hyn ac yr ydym yn ceisio ei chyrraedd erbyn 2012. Gwyddom y bydd y buddsoddiad ychwanegol sy’n ofynnol yn uchel ac yr ydym yn gweithio gydag awdurdodau lleol i geisio dod o hyd i’r buddsoddiad hwnnw, fel y gellir ei gyflwyno i’r sector tai.

On resources, we are changing the financial regime for local authorities to give them more discretion in how they use their resources. We know that, on current projections, the capital funding available for housing will be insufficient to meet the cost of improvements and repairs. Therefore, some local authorities will need to consider alternative ways of funding, including stock transfer. Tenants in Bridgend who recently became the first in Wales to vote in favour of stock transfer have recognised that reality. I am aware that other authorities are carefully considering their plans in conjunction with tenants, and it is up to local authorities and tenants to decide on the way forward.

O ran adnoddau, yr ydym yn newid y drefn ariannol ar gyfer awdurdodau lleol fel eu bod yn defnyddio eu hadnoddau yn y ffordd y gwelant orau. Gwyddom, yn ôl rhagamcanion cyfredol, na fydd yr arian cyfalaf sydd ar gael ar gyfer tai yn ddigon i dalu cost gwelliannau ac atgyweiriadau. Felly, bydd angen i rai awdurdodau lleol ystyried ffyrdd amgen o ariannu, gan gynnwys trosglwyddo stoc. Mae tenantiaid ym Mhen-y-bont ar Ogwr a fu’r cyntaf yn ddiweddar yng Nghymru i bleidleisio o blaid trosglwyddo stoc wedi cydnabod y realiti hwnnw. Yr wyf yn ymwybodol bod awdurdodau eraill yn ystyried eu cynlluniau yn ofalus ar y cyd â thenantiaid, a chyfrifoldeb awdurdodau lleol a thenantiaid yw penderfynu ar y ffordd ymlaen.

In the private sector, a large proportion of homes in urban areas were built before 1919, and many of these need repair. The Assembly has introduced a regulatory reform Order to deregulate many of the current arrangements for private sector renewal, including renovation grants. This gives local authorities new opportunities to tackle issues strategically, in line with their local priorities.

Yn y sector preifat, adeiladwyd cyfran fawr o dai mewn ardaloedd trefol cyn 1919, ac mae angen atgyweirio llawer o’r rhain. Mae’r Cynulliad wedi cyflwyno Gorchymyn diwygio rheoliadol i ddadreoli llawer o’r trefniadau cyfredol ar gyfer adnewyddu’r sector preifat, gan gynnwys grantiau adnewyddu. Rhydd hyn gyfleoedd newydd i awdurdodau lleol fynd i’r afael â materion yn strategol, yn unol â’u blaenoriaethau lleol.

Geraint Davies spoken in English p. 95

Geraint Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 95

I am a member of a local authority and we find it difficult to provide for housing needs. Are you saying that the only way to tackle social housing problems is by stock transfer, or do you have an alternative?

Yr wyf yn aelod o awdurdod lleol a chawn anhawster i ddarparu ar gyfer anghenion tai. A ydych yn dweud mai’r unig ffordd o fynd i’r afael â phroblemau tai cymdeithasol yw drwy drosglwyddo stoc, neu a oes gennych ateb arall?

Peter Black spoken in English p. 95

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 95

I am aware that your local authority is actively considering stock transfer and is at an advanced stage of doing so. The reality is that, unless local authorities can find other ways of bringing in resources, stock transfer may be the only show in town in many instances. Unless the Government changes the public sector borrowing requirement, as Owen John highlighted, we must find other ways of dealing with those issues. We have approached it on several occasions to do that, and it has refused, leaving us with few options but to pursue that matter. Through the community mutual model that we have introduced, we are trying to find ways to do that by empowering tenants and by increasingly involving them in the decision-making that affects their homes. I hope that, if the local authorities are looking at stock transfer, they will consider our community mutual model.

Yr wyf yn ymwybodol bod eich awdurdod lleol wrthi’n ystyried trosglwyddo stoc a’i fod ar fin gwneud hynny. Y realiti yw, oni all awdurdodau lleol ganfod ffyrdd eraill o gyflwyno adnoddau, trosglwyddo stoc fydd yr unig ddewis efallai mewn sawl achos. Oni fydd y Llywodraeth yn newid gofyniad benthyca’r sector cyhoeddus, fel yr amlygodd Owen John, rhaid inni ganfod ffyrdd eraill o ymdrin â’r materion hynny. Yr ydym wedi mynd ar ei hôl ar sawl achlysur i wneud hynny, ac mae wedi gwrthod, gan ein gadael heb lawer o ddewis ond mynd ar drywydd y mater hwnnw. Drwy’r model cymunedol ar y cyd a gyflwynwyd gennym, yr ydym yn ceisio dod o hyd i ffyrdd o wneud hynny drwy rymuso tenantiaid a’u cynnwys fwyfwy yn y broses gwneud penderfyniadau sy’n effeithio ar eu cartrefi. Gobeithiaf, os yw awdurdodau lleol yn ystyried trosglwyddo stoc, y byddant yn ystyried ein model cymunedol ar y cyd.

On HMO licensing, Owen John—

O ran trwyddedu tai amlfeddiant, Owen John—

Brian Gibbons spoken in English p. 96

Brian Gibbons siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 96

I am interested by Geraint’s intervention. He recently told us how well Rhondda Cynon Taf County Borough Council was managing its finances and so on. Part of the reason why it is so excellent at managing its resources is probably because it is failing to address the problem that he just raised.

Mae diddordeb gennyf yn ymyriad Geraint. Yn ddiweddar dywedodd wrthym pa mor dda y mae Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Rhondda Cynon Taf yn rheoli ei arian ac yn y blaen. Mae’n rheoli ei adnoddau mor wych yn rhannol am ei bod yn methu ag ymdrin â’r broblem y mae newydd ei chodi.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 96

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 96

I will take that as read, Brian.

Derbyniaf hynny’n ddigwestiwn, Brian.

On HMOs, we are also committed to introducing mandatory licensing for houses—

O ran tai amlfeddiant, yr ydym hefyd yn ymrwymedig i gyflwyno trwyddedu gorfodol ar gyfer tai—

Rhodri Glyn Thomas a gododd—

Rhodri Glyn Thomas rose—

Peter Black spoken in English p. 96

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 96

I need to move on. Owen John raised some interesting points that I want to address. If I keep taking interventions, I will not have a chance to respond to his comments. Let me make some progress; I will see how we go.

Mae angen imi symud ymlaen. Cododd Owen John rai pwyntiau diddorol yr wyf am ymdrin â hwy. Os parhaf i gymryd ymyriadau, ni fydd cyfle gennyf i ymateb i’w sylwadau. Gadewch imi barhau; caf weld a fydd cyfle.

We are committed to introducing mandatory licensing for houses in multiple occupation and selective licensing of other properties in the private rented sector. The new Housing Bill will introduce mandatory licensing for all HMOs deemed to be high-risk. Authorities will also have discretionary powers to licence other HMOs where it is considered appropriate, and funding will be made available to help with the cost of introducing this new statutory function.

Yr ydym yn ymrwymedig i gyflwyno trwyddedu gorfodol ar gyfer tai amlfeddiant a thrwyddedu dewisol ar gyfer mathau eraill o eiddo yn y sector tai preifat ar osod. Bydd y Mesur Tai newydd yn cyflwyno trwyddedu gorfodol i bob tŷ amlfeddiant y tybir ei fod â risg uchel. Bydd gan awdurdodau bwerau dewisol hefyd i drwyddedu tai amlfeddiant eraill lle yr ystyrir bod hynny’n briodol, a bydd arian ar gael i helpu gyda’r gost o gyflwyno’r swyddogaeth statudol newydd hon.

On homelessness, while having a poor landlord is bad enough, having no home at all is far worse. The Assembly Government wishes to eliminate the need for anyone to sleep rough. We have shown our commitment through new initiatives and increased funding over the last four years. Following the implementation of the Homelessness Act 2002, the Assembly has published a draft code of guidance for local authorities on the allocation of accommodation and homelessness. This document includes guidance for local authorities on drafting local homelessness strategies. I should also mention the Communities First programme, which aims to tackle poverty in our most deprived communities. Taken together, these measures represent an important contribution to meeting the Assembly Government’s objective to tackle social exclusion.

O ran digartrefedd, er bod cael landlord gwael yn ddigon drwg, mae peidio â chael cartref o gwbl yn llawer gwaeth. Dymuna Llywodraeth y Cynulliad ddileu’r angen i unrhyw un gysgu ar y stryd. Yr ydym wedi dangos ein hymrwymiad drwy fentrau newydd a mwy o arian dros y pedair blynedd diwethaf. Yn dilyn gweithredu Deddf Digartrefedd 2002, mae’r Cynulliad wedi cyhoeddi cod canllawiau drafft ar gyfer awdurdodau lleol ar ddyrannu llety a digartrefedd. Mae’r ddogfen hon yn cynnwys canllawiau i awdurdodau lleol ar lunio strategaethau digartrefedd lleol. Dylwn hefyd sôn am y rhaglen Cymunedau yn Gyntaf, sy’n anelu at fynd i’r afael â thlodi yn ein cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig. Gyda’i gilydd, mae’r mesurau hyn yn gyfraniad pwysig i gyflawni amcan Llywodraeth y Cynulliad o fynd i’r afael ag allgáu cymdeithasol.

One aspect of housing of which we are all aware is the rise in property prices.

Un agwedd ar dai y mae pob un ohonom yn ymwybodol ohoni yw’r cynnydd mewn prisiau eiddo.

Brian Hancock spoken in English p. 97

Brian Hancock siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 97

Your remarks on social exclusion are interesting. Many people in social housing would like to move out of social housing, yet find it difficult to do so. Do you have any plans that would help those people?

Mae eich sylwadau ar allgáu cymdeithasol yn ddiddorol. Hoffai llawer o bobl mewn tai cymdeithasol symud allan o dai cymdeithasol, ond cânt anhawster i wneud hynny. A oes gennych unrhyw gynlluniau a fyddai’n helpu’r bobl hynny?

Peter Black spoken in English p. 97

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 97

We cannot bring forward legislation that will help every individual to move out of social housing, as there are so many individual circumstances. There are ways to help people out of social housing, and one of those is the homebuy scheme, which the Assembly introduced and which Owen John highlighted. There are, therefore, methods to help people in this regard.

Ni allwn gyflwyno deddfwriaeth a fydd yn helpu pob unigolyn i symud allan o dai cymdeithasol, gan fod cymaint o amgylchiadau unigol. Mae ffyrdd o helpu pobl i symud allan o dai cymdeithasol ac un o’r rhain yw’r cynllun homebuy, a gyflwynodd y Cynulliad ac a amlygwyd gan Owen John. Felly mae dulliau o helpu pobl yn hyn o beth.

Although interest rates are at a record low, and prices in south Wales are much lower than in southern England, the Assembly Government is concerned about the ability of people on modest incomes to access homes for purchase or rent. While wage levels depend on the economy, the supply of land for housing is governed by the planning system. Planning obligations, also known as section 106 agreements, are currently negotiated between local planning authorities and developers and can be used to deliver an element of affordable housing. However, in Wales, there are indications that section 106 agreements are not being fully utilised. Research on behalf of the Assembly Government revealed that authorities are underusing their powers to secure affordable housing as part of planning gain for new development sites. This situation should also be considered in the light of the general concern in England and Wales that the existing system of planning obligations is unfair to developers. It involves lengthy negotiations and high legal costs, which lead to delay, and it lacks transparency.

Er bod cyfraddau llog ar eu hisaf erioed, a phrisiau yn y De yn llawer is na’r rhai yn ne Lloegr, mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn gofidio ynghylch gallu pobl ar incwm cymhedrol i gael cartrefi sydd ar gael i’w prynu neu ar osod. Er bod lefelau cyflogau yn dibynnu ar yr economi, rheolir y cyflenwad o dir ar gyfer tai gan y system gynllunio. Mae rhwymedigaethau cynllunio, a elwir hefyd yn gytundebau adran 106, yn cael eu negodi ar hyn o bryd rhwng awdurdodau cynllunio lleol a datblygwyr a gellir eu defnyddio i gyflwyno rhywfaint o dai fforddiadwy. Fodd bynnag, yng Nghymru, mae arwyddion nad yw cytundebau adran 106 yn cael eu defnyddio i’r eithaf. Datgelodd ymchwil ar ran Llywodraeth y Cynulliad fod awdurdodau yn tanddefnyddio eu pwerau i sicrhau tai fforddiadwy fel rhan o fantais gynllunio ar gyfer safleoedd datblygu newydd. Dylid ystyried y sefyllfa hon hefyd yng ngoleuni’r pryder cyffredinol yng Nghymru a Lloegr bod y system bresennol o rwymedigaethau cynllunio yn annheg i ddatblygwyr. Mae’n golygu negodiadau hirfaith a chostau cyfreithiol uchel, sy’n arwain at oedi, ac sy’n ddiffygiol o ran tryloywder.

Another factor that has affected the supply of housing is the right to buy, as Owen John highlighted. The scheme has enabled over 110,000 people to purchase their homes since its introduction in 1980. However, the scheme’s success has resulted in a corresponding decrease in the number of local authority homes available for rent by people in housing need. In view of this, the Assembly Government has invited comments on whether to reduce the maximum discount allowed under the scheme as a way of retaining more of the current affordable housing stock.

Ffactor arall sydd wedi effeithio ar gyflenwad tai yw’r hawl i brynu, fel yr amlygwyd gan Owen John. Mae’r cynllun wedi galluogi dros 110,000 o bobl i brynu eu cartrefi ers ei gyflwyno yn 1980. Fodd bynnag, mae llwyddiant y cynllun wedi arwain at ostyngiad cyfatebol yn nifer y cartrefi awdurdod lleol sydd ar gael i’w gosod ar rent gan bobl y mae angen tai arnynt. O gofio hyn, mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad wedi gwahodd sylwadau ar p’un a ddylid lleihau’r gostyngiad mwyaf a ganiateir o dan y cynllun fel ffordd o gadw mwy o’r stoc tai y gellir eu fforddio ar hyn o bryd.

I will conclude by addressing some of Owen John’s specific suggestions. On his first point, namely the issue of surveys, local housing needs assessments are already undertaken and are funded by the Assembly Government. On public sector borrowing requirement rules, we have approached the Treasury on many occasions to ask it to change the rules but have been met with a blank refusal. We will continue to do so at any given opportunity, but we must face the reality that the Treasury is not prepared to move on this issue.

Deuaf i ben drwy ymdrin â rai o awgrymiadau penodol Owen John. Ar ei bwynt cyntaf, sef cyhoeddi arolygon, ymgymerir eisoes ag asesiadau anghenion tai lleol ac fe’u hariennir gan Lywodraeth y Cynulliad. O ran rheolau gofynion benthyca’r sector cyhoeddus, yr ydym wedi cysylltu â’r Trysorlys ar sawl achlysur i ofyn iddo newid y rheolau ond fe’n gwrthodwyd yn deg. Byddwn yn parhau i achub ar unrhyw gyfle i wneud hynny, ond rhaid inni wynebu’r realiti nad yw’r Trysorlys yn barod i ildio ar y mater hwn.

Owen John Thomas spoken in English p. 98

Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 98

I appreciate that you are a member of the smaller part of the coalition Government, but do you think that the reason why the Labour element of the coalition does not want to get stuck into the Government in Whitehall is because of an inherent weakness? It does not want to argue with Whitehall, so if it is told that it cannot have something, it goes away with its tail between its legs. Do you think that that is a fair assessment of the situation?

Gwerthfawrogaf eich bod yn aelod o’r rhan lai o glymblaid y Llywodraeth, ond a gredwch mai’r rheswm pam nad yw rhan Lafur y glymblaid am fynd ati o ddifrif gyda’r Llywodraeth yn San Steffan yw oherwydd gwendid cynhenid? Nid yw am ddadlau â Whitehall, felly os dywedir wrtho na all gael rhywbeth, â i ffwrdd â’i gynffon rhwng ei afl. A gredwch fod hynny’n asesiad teg o’r sefyllfa?

Peter Black spoken in English p. 99

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 99

The Minister has been resolute in seeking this change from the Treasury and has worked hard on this, regardless of her political affiliations. I do not accept your analysis of this situation.

Bu’r Gweinidog yn gadarn yn gofyn i’r Trysorlys newid hyn ac mae wedi gweithio’n galed ar y mater hwn, waeth beth fo’i chysylltiadau gwleidyddol. Ni dderbyniaf eich dadansoddiad o’r sefyllfa hon.

Owen John’s proposal to create a company similar in structure to Glas Cymru is interesting, but it would still involve transferring local authorities’ control to get around the public sector borrowing requirement rules. Therefore, I do not think that it is a new solution, and the local housing association solution may be a better option, as it offers more local control. On the homebuy scheme, the 50 per cent level of assistance only applies to rural areas and areas of regeneration; in urban areas you can receive assistance of 30 per cent of the purchase price. However, it is up to local councils to decide how to use the social housing grant. Local councils can currently use the social housing grant to help fund homebuy purchases in urban areas with the 30 per cent assistance. Getting people into houses in that way can sometimes provide better value, but that is a matter for local authorities.

Mae cynnig Owen John i greu cwmni tebyg o ran strwythur i Glas Cymru yn ddiddorol, ond byddai’n golygu trosglwyddo rheolaeth awdurdodau lleol o hyd, er mwyn osgoi rheolau gofynion benthyca’r sector cyhoeddus. Felly, ni chredaf ei fod yn ateb newydd, ac efallai fod ateb y gymdeithas tai leol yn opsiwn gwell, gan ei fod yn cynnig mwy o reolaeth leol. O ran y cynllun homebuy, dim ond i ardaloedd gwledig ac ardaloedd adfywio y mae’r lefel cymorth o 50 y cant yn gymwys; mewn ardaloedd trefol gallwch gael cymorth o 30 y cant o’r pris prynu. Fodd bynnag, y cynghorau lleol fydd yn penderfynu sut i ddefnyddio’r grant tai cymdeithasol. Ar hyn o bryd gall cynghorau lleol ddefnyddio’r grant tai cymdeithasol i helpu i ariannu pryniannau homebuy mewn ardaloedd trefol gyda’r 30 y cant o gymorth. Gall rhoi tai i bobl fel hyn ddarparu gwell gwerth weithiau, ond mater i’r awdurdodau lleol yw hynny.

On the right-to-buy scheme, the extension of convenants on purchase and resale is a primary legislation issue, and we do not have control over it. We can only apply those restrictions in rural areas. However, we are consulting on the level of discount. The tripartite company, which Owen John suggested, is effectively the Assembly’s community mutual model under a different name and I would suggest that the community mutual model is a better option.

O ran y cynllun hawl i brynu, mae ehangu cyfamodau ar brynu ac ailwerthu yn fater o ddeddfwriaeth sylfaenol, ac nid oes gennym reolaeth drosti. Dim ond mewn ardaloedd gwledig y gallwn gymhwyso’r cyfyngiadau hynny. Fodd bynnag, yr ydym yn ymgynghori ar lefel y gostyngiad. Yn y bôn, model cyd-gymunedol y Cynulliad yw’r cwmni teiran, a awgrymwyd gan Owen John o dan enw gwahanol ac awgrymaf fod y model cyd-gymunedol yn opsiwn gwell.

On boarded-up houses, local councils can utilise funds and exercise compulsory purchase powers in housing renewal areas and elsewhere. However, those compulsory purchase orders can delay the matter for two or three years. Primary legislation would be required if that were to be changed. On capital receipts, the reality on spending is that councils in Wales in the last three years have invested £150 million less than the amount they have available for housing from useable housing receipts, Assembly provision and contributions to capital from rents. Not all receipts are being invested in housing, but neither is much of the other money that is available to local authorities. That is a budgetary decision on their part. On legislation for houses in multiple occupation, I have already said that that was included in the Queen’s Speech.

O ran tai lle mae estyll wedi eu gosod ar y ffenestri a’r drysau, gall cynghorau lleol ddefnyddio’r arian ac ymarfer pwerau prynu gorfodol mewn ardaloedd adnewyddu tai a mannau eraill. Fodd bynnag, gall y gorchmynion prynu gorfodol hynny oedi’r gwaith am ddwy neu dair blynedd. Byddai angen deddfwriaeth sylfaenol er mwyn newid hynny. O ran derbyniadau cyfalaf, y realiti o ran gwariant yw bod cynghorau yng Nghymru yn y tair blynedd diwethaf wedi buddsoddi £150 miliwn yn llai na’r swm sydd ganddynt ar gyfer tai o dderbyniadau tai y gellir eu defnyddio, darpariaeth y Cynulliad a chyfraniadau i gyfalaf o renti. Nid yw’r holl dderbyniadau yn cael eu buddsoddi mewn tai, ond nid yw llawer o’r arian arall sydd ar gael i awdurdodau lleol yn cael ei fuddsoddi ychwaith. Mae hynny’n benderfyniad cyllidebol ar eu rhan. O ran deddfwriaeth ar gyfer tai amlfeddiant, yr wyf eisoes wedi dweud bod hynny wedi ei gynnwys yn Araith y Frenhines.

Janet Ryder a gododd—

Janet Ryder rose—

Peter Black spoken in English p. 100

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 100

I do not have enough time to take an intervention, Janet, as I am approaching my 15-minute limit.

Nid oes digon o amser gennyf i gymryd ymyriad, Janet, gan fy mod bron wedi defnyddio fy 15 munud.

In the four years since the Assembly was established, the Assembly Government has taken significant action to improve Welsh housing in both urban and rural areas, following years in which housing was treated as a low priority. We cannot wave a magic wand and achieve all our objectives overnight, but we have set the strategies in place to achieve those aims, working with our partners in the public and private sectors. We do not underestimate the challenges ahead, but we are striving to overcome them.

Yn y pedair blynedd ers i’r Cynulliad gael ei sefydlu, mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad wedi cymryd camau mawr i wella tai Cymru mewn ardaloedd trefol a gwledig, yn dilyn blynyddoedd pan roddwyd blaenoriaeth isel i dai. Ni allwn chwifio hudlath a chyflawni pob un o’n hamcanion dros nos, ond yr ydym wedi rhoi’r strategaethau ar waith i gyflawni’r nodau hynny, gan weithio gyda’n partneriaid yn y sectorau cyhoeddus a phreifat. Nid ydym yn bychanu’r heriau sydd o’n blaenau, ond yr ydym yn ymdrechu i’w goresgyn.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 100

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 100

That brings today’s proceedings to a close.

Daw hynny â chyfarfod heddiw i ben.

Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 5.27 p.m.

The meeting ended at 5.27 p.m.