Cynulliad Cenedlaethol CymruNational Assembly for Wales · Cyfarfod llawnPlenary sitting
Dydd Mawrth 3 Gorffennaf 2001
Tuesday 3 July 2001
CynnwysContents
- 3Cwestiynau i Brif Weinidog CymruQuestions to the First Minister
- 3Cyfrannu’n Effeithiol at Brosesau YmgynghoriInput into Consultation Processes
- 4Effaith Ehangu’r UE ar GymruEffects of EU Enlargement on Wales
- 6Effaith Araith y Frenhines ar GymruEffects of the Queen’s Speech on Wales
- 9Datblygu Polisi o Fewn y Cynulliad CenedlaetholDevelopment of Policy within the National Assembly
- 10Datblygu Polisïau yn y Cynulliad CenedlaetholDeveloping Policies in the National Assembly
- 11Themâu TrawsbynciolCross-cutting Themes
- 13Cydbwyllgor y GweinidogionJoint Ministerial Committee
- 15Rhaglen Ddeddfwriaethol Arfaethedig Llywodraeth y DUUK Government’s Forthcoming Legislative Programme
- 17Effaith ‘Rhoi Cymru’n Gyntaf’Impact of ‘Putting Wales First’
- 18Cynorthwyo Trigolion Cymraeg y WladfaAssistance to Welsh Language Speakers in Patagonia
- 20Cynorthwyo Gweinidogion y CabinetAssisting Cabinet Ministers
- 21Newid Targedau ‘Rhoi Cymru’n Gyntaf’Altering the Targets Outlined in ‘Putting Wales First’
- 22Datganiad ar Lansio’r Fframwaith Gwasanaeth Cenedlaethol ar gyfer Clefyd Coronaidd y GalonStatement on the Launch of the Coronary Heart Disease National Service Framework
- 37Datganiad BusnesBusiness Statement
- 37Pwyntiau o DrefnPoints of Order
- 39Strategaeth Technoleg Gwybodaeth a ChyfathrebuThe Information and Communications Technology Strategy 6 o bleidleisiau6 votes
- 70Cynnig TrefniadolProcedural Motion 1 bleidlais1 vote
- 71Cymorth i Fusnesau yn y DyfodolFuture Business Support 9 o bleidleisiau9 votes
PleidleisiauVotes
| PleidlaisVote | O blaidFor | YmatalAbstain | Yn erbynAgainst | CanlyniadResult |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Strategaeth Technoleg Gwybodaeth a ChyfathrebuThe Information and Communications Technology Strategy | ||||
| Gwelliant 1Amendment 1 | 51 | 0 | 0 | DerbyniwydAdopted |
| Gwelliant 2Amendment 2 | 52 | 0 | 0 | DerbyniwydAdopted |
| Gwelliant 3Amendment 3 | 51 | 0 | 0 | DerbyniwydAdopted |
| Gwelliant 4Amendment 4 | 7 | 13 | 31 | GwrthodwydRejected |
| Gwelliant 5Amendment 5 | 52 | 0 | 0 | DerbyniwydAdopted |
| Cynnig wedi’i ddiwygioAmended motion | 52 | 0 | 0 | DerbyniwydAdopted |
| Cynnig TrefniadolProcedural Motion | ||||
| Cynnig trefniadolProcedural motion | 51 | 0 | 0 | DerbyniwydAdopted |
| Cymorth i Fusnesau yn y DyfodolFuture Business Support | ||||
| Gwelliant 1Amendment 1 | 8 | 0 | 42 | GwrthodwydRejected |
| Gwelliant 2Amendment 2 | 22 | 0 | 29 | GwrthodwydRejected |
| Gwelliant 3Amendment 3 | 49 | 0 | 1 | DerbyniwydAdopted |
| Gwelliant 4Amendment 4 | 42 | 1 | 7 | DerbyniwydAdopted |
| Gwelliant 5Amendment 5 | 21 | 0 | 30 | GwrthodwydRejected |
| Gwelliant 6Amendment 6 | 21 | 0 | 30 | GwrthodwydRejected |
| Gwelliant 7Amendment 7 | 51 | 0 | 0 | DerbyniwydAdopted |
| Gwelliant 8Amendment 8 | 9 | 0 | 42 | GwrthodwydRejected |
| Cynnig wedi’i ddiwygioAmended motion | 42 | 0 | 8 | DerbyniwydAdopted |
TrafodionProceedings
Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 2 p.m. gyda’r Llywydd yn y Gadair.
The Assembly met at 2 p.m. with the Presiding Officer in the Chair.
Cwestiynau i Brif Weinidog Cymru
Questions to the First Minister
Cyfrannu’n Effeithiol at Brosesau Ymgynghori
Input into Consultation Processes
What steps will the First Minister take to seek to ensure that the National Assembly is able to have effective input into consultation processes on draft UK Bills during the time in which the Assembly is in recess? (OAQ12322)
Pa gamau wnaiff Prif Weinidog Cymru eu cymryd i sicrhau y gall y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol gyfrannu’n effeithiol at brosesau ymgynghori ar Fesurau drafft y DU yn ystod toriad y Cynulliad? (OAQ12322)
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 3
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3
I welcome all opportunities from all quarters to have input into Bills that have either an exclusive or partial impact on the Assembly’s powers and on Wales. The issue of problems caused by the recess will not arise, as I understand that no draft Bills will be published during the recess because the Houses of Parliament will be in recess for almost exactly the same period of time as the Assembly.
Croesawaf bob cyfle gan bob carfan i roi mewnbwn i Fesurau sydd yn effeithio’n benodol neu’n rhannol ar bwerau’r Cynulliad ac ar Gymru. Ni fydd problemau yn codi yn sgîl y toriad, oherwydd deallaf na chyhoeddir Mesurau drafft yn ystod y gwyliau gan y bydd y Senedd ar doriad yn ystod yr un cyfnod yn union, bron, â’r Cynulliad.
I am sure that the First Minister agrees that the Assembly’s Subject Committees must play a key role if we are to have an effective input into draft legislation. The First Minister is wrong. The draft Communications Bill will be published during the summer and it will be consulted upon during the Assembly summer recess. What opportunities will there be to amend that Bill later, and how effective will that be? Or will this be a case of the Assembly missing the boat again?
Yr wyf yn siŵr y cytuna Prif Weinidog Cymru y dylai Pwyllgorau Pwnc y Cynulliad chwarae rhan allweddol os ydym am gyfrannu’n effeithiol at ddeddfwriaeth ddrafft. Mae Prif Weinidog Cymru yn anghywir. Cyhoeddir y Mesur Cysylltiadau drafft yn ystod yr haf ac ymgynghorir arno yn ystod toriad haf y Cynulliad. Pa gyfleoedd fydd ar gael i ddiwygio’r Mesur hwnnw yn ddiweddarach, a pha mor effeithiol fydd hynny? Ynteu a fydd hyn yn enghraifft arall o’r Cynulliad yn colli cyfle?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 3
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3
There is no question of missing the boat. If Jocelyn’s information is correct—I accept that her information on the Bills that have an impact on Wales, including the Communications Bill possibly, is more up-to-date than mine—I would welcome any method of encouraging consultation with stakeholders. Any Assembly Member who has served as a Member of Parliament will recall how bad and inadequate the process of parliamentary scrutiny was. Some Bills are now published in draft form, so that the Assembly’s Subject Committees or the Select Committees at the Houses of Parliament can consider them. That will improve the quality of legislation compared to the past.
Nid oes unrhyw debygolrwydd o golli cyfle. Os yw gwybodaeth Jocelyn yn gywir––derbyniaf fod ei gwybodaeth hi ar y Mesurau sydd yn effeithio ar Gymru, gan gynnwys y Mesur Cysylltiadau o bosibl, yn fwy diweddar na’m gwybodaeth i––croesawaf unrhyw ddull o annog ymgynghori â rhanddeiliaid. Bydd unrhyw Aelod o’r Cynulliad sydd wedi gwasanaethu fel Aelod Seneddol yn cofio pa mor wael ac annigonol oedd y broses graffu seneddol. Cyhoeddir rhai Mesurau bellach ar ffurf drafft, fel y gall Pwyllgorau Pwnc y Cynulliad neu Bwyllgorau Dethol y Senedd eu hystyried. Bydd hynny yn gwella ansawdd deddfwriaeth o’i gymharu â’r gorffennol.
Will the First Minister join with me in welcoming the proposals for an NHS (Wales) Bill in draft form, which, hopefully, will allow the Health and Social Services Committee and the Assembly as a whole, as well as stakeholders in the NHS, to have a full input into the contents of that Bill? Does the First Minister agree that, while the Assembly does not have primary legislative powers, we should continue to receive Bills in draft form so that we can have maximum influence over them?
A ymuna Prif Weinidog Cymru â mi i groesawu’r cynigion am Fesur NHS (Cymru) ar ffurf drafft, a fydd, gobeithio, yn galluogi’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol a’r Cynulliad cyfan, yn ogystal â rhanddeiliaid yn yr NHS, i gael mewnbwn llawn i gynnwys y Mesur hwnnw? A gytuna Prif Weinidog Cymru, er nad oes gan y Cynulliad bwerau deddfwriaethol sylfaenol, y dylem barhau i dderbyn Mesurau ar ffurf drafft fel y gallwn ddylanwadu’n llawn arnynt?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 4
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4
It is not only a case of being hopeful about having an input to the Bill’s contents. The NHS (Wales) Bill will come to the Subject Committee, which you chair with distinction, Kirsty. The same applies to the Select Committees in the House of Commons. That is the purpose of having draft Bills considered by committees which deal with the subject matter, and they can draw in stakeholders and people to give evidence on how a Bill, if enacted, would affect them. Let us give evidence, which will be better than a narrow form of parliamentary scrutiny by standing committees which largely becomes an inter-party dogfight and does not lead to much improvement in the quality of the Bills between the drafting stage and their final passage into legislation. I entirely agree that, on the draft NHS (Wales) Bill in particular, the work of the Health and Social Services Committee will be of great importance.
Nid mater o obeithio cael mewnbwn i gynnwys y Mesur yn unig ydyw. Daw Mesur NHS (Cymru) gerbron y Pwyllgor Pwnc, a gadeiriwch yn anrhydeddus, Kirsty. Mae hyn yn wir hefyd am y Pwyllgorau Dethol yn Nhŷ’r Cyffredin. Dyna pam y caiff mesurau drafft eu hystyried gan bwyllgorau sydd yn ymdrin â’r pwnc dan sylw, a gallant gynnwys rhanddeiliaid a phobl i roi tystiolaeth ar sut y byddai Mesur, pe câi ei weithredu, yn effeithio arnynt. Gadewch inni roi tystiolaeth, a fydd yn gwella ar y ffurf gul o graffu seneddol gan bwyllgorau sefydlog a ddaw yn frwydr rhyngbleidiol na fydd byth yn arwain at fawr o welliant yn ansawdd y Mesurau rhwng y drafftio cyntaf a’u cyflwyno’n derfynol fel deddfwriaeth. Cytunaf yn llwyr y bydd gwaith y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol ar Fesur drafft NHS (Cymru) yn arbennig, yn bwysig eithriadol.
Effaith Ehangu’r UE ar Gymru
Effects of EU Enlargement on Wales
What discussions has the First Minister had with the relevant bodies regarding the effects of European Union enlargement on Wales? (OAQ12314)
Pa drafodaethau y mae Prif Weinidog Cymru wedi’u cynnal gyda’r cyrff perthnasol ynghylch effeithiau ehangu’r Undeb Ewropeaidd ar Gymru? (OAQ12314)
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 4
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4
We have agreed to set up an EU enlargement working group. Its terms of reference have been agreed and it will advise the Committee on European Affairs on Wales’s response to the opportunities and perhaps also to the dangers presented by EU enlargement. The working group will report to the next meeting of the Committee on European Affairs on 17 October.
Yr ydym wedi cytuno i sefydlu gweithgor yn ymwneud ag ehangu’r UE. Cytunwyd ar ei gylch gorchwyl a bydd yn cynghori’r Pwyllgor Materion Ewropeaidd ar ymateb Cymru i’r cyfleoedd ac efallai’r peryglon a all godi yn sgîl ehangu’r UE. Bydd y gweithgor yn adrodd yn ôl i gyfarfod nesaf y Pwyllgor Materion Ewropeaidd ar 17 Hydref.
Do you agree that we must learn from the Irish ‘no’ vote on the Nice Treaty and must work hard in the Assembly to highlight the new opportunities that enlargement will bring to the people of Wales, given the outcome of the Gothenburg EU summit? How can the Assembly work towards bringing enlargement closer to the people of Wales?
A gytunwch fod angen inni ddysgu oddi wrth bleidlais ‘na’ Iwerddon ar Gytundeb Nice ac y dylem weithio’n galed yn y Cynulliad i amlygu’r cyfleoedd newydd a ddaw i ran pobl Cymru yn sgîl ehangu, o ystyried canlyniad uwchgynhadledd yr UE yn Gothenburg? Sut y gall y Cynulliad weithio tuag at ddod ag ehangu yn agosach at bobl Cymru?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 5
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5
I agree that the Irish ‘no’ vote, in a country that is usually considered among the most enthusiastic for further European integration, will have delivered a shock from the citizens to all the chancelleries of Europe. We must learn those lessons in Wales. That is one of the reasons why the Committee on European Affairs will involve all the stakeholders in discussion of that issue, including the private sector. It has also been agreed that the Wales Trades Union Congress should be included and invited to take part in the EU enlargement working group, which will report to the Assembly via the Committee on European Affairs.
Cytunaf y bydd pleidlais ‘na’ Iwerddon, mewn gwlad a ystyrir fel arfer ymysg y mwyaf brwdfrydig dros integreiddio pellach yn Ewrop, wedi bod yn ergyd oddi wrth y dinasyddion i holl gangellfeydd Ewrop. Rhaid inni ddysgu’r gwersi hynny yng Nghymru. Dyna un o’r rhesymau pam y bydd y Pwyllgor Materion Ewropeaidd yn cynnwys yr holl randdeiliaid mewn trafodaethau ar y mater hwnnw, gan gynnwys y sector preifat. Cytunwyd hefyd y dylid cynnwys Cyngres Undebau Llafur Cymru a’i gwahodd i gymryd rhan yng ngweithgor ehangu’r UE, a fydd yn atebol i’r Cynulliad drwy’r Pwyllgor Materion Ewropeaidd.
The enlargement project is the most exciting European project that will be embarked upon by the European Union during the next 10 years. Do you agree that it is imperative that this working group is established swiftly, and that it recommends to the administration and to the Assembly the best way of achieving some of the huge cultural, economic and political benefits that will arise, particularly when the first entrants are admitted to the European Union in 2004?
Y prosiect ehangu yw’r prosiect mwyaf cyffrous y bydd yr Undeb Ewropeaidd yn ymgymryd ag ef yn ystod y 10 mlynedd nesaf. A gytunwch ei bod yn hanfodol sefydlu’r gweithgor hwn yn gyflym, a’i fod yn argymell i’r weinyddiaeth a’r Cynulliad y ffordd orau o gyflawni rhai o’r buddiannau diwylliannol, economaidd a gwleidyddol anferth a ddaw yn ei sgîl, yn arbennig pan gaiff yr aelodau cyntaf eu derbyn i’r Undeb Ewropeaidd yn 2004?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 5
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5
Yes. It was easier for the European Union to go from six to 15 member states than it will be to go from 15 to 20 or 26. The countries that we are now considering have not, until recently, shared the same traditions of the rule of democratic government and the rule of law, though not necessarily through their own choice. Therefore, since the Warsaw Pact and the collapse of the Berlin Wall that happened as recently as 1989, many of those countries have relatively short experience of working in the same way as the other countries. Therefore I entirely endorse all your points and they will all be taken on board in the Welsh EU enlargement sub-committee.
Gwnaf. Yr oedd yn haws i’r Undeb Ewropeaidd godi o chwe aelod-wladwriaeth i 15 nag y bydd i godi o 15 i 20 neu 26. Tan yn ddiweddar, nid oedd y gwledydd a ystyriwn yn awr, wedi rhannu yr un traddodiadau o reolaeth llywodraeth ddemocrataidd a rheolaeth y gyfraith, er nad oedd hynny o ddewis efallai. Felly, ers Cytundeb Warsaw a chwalu Mur Berlin a ddigwyddodd mor ddiweddar ag 1989, profiad cymharol fyr o weithio yn yr un modd â gwledydd eraill sydd gan lawer o’r gwledydd hynny. Felly yr wyf yn llwyr gefnogi eich holl bwyntiau a chânt eu hystyried yn is-bwyllgor Cymru ar ehangu’r UE.
If you were invited in the Liège meeting to sign the Flanders declaration on the role of regional governments in the negotiations on the changed structure of the European Union after enlargement, would you do so? What steps would you take to be able to demonstrate the wholehearted support of the National Assembly for Wales for such a role?
Pe baech yn cael eich gwahodd yn y cyfarfod yn Liège i arwyddo datganiad Fflandrys ar rôl llywodraethau rhanbarthol yn y negodiadau ar strwythur newydd yr Undeb Ewropeaidd wedi’r ehangu, a fyddech yn gwneud hynny? Pa gamau y byddech yn eu cymryd er mwyn dangos cefnogaeth lawn Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru i rôl o’r fath?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 6
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6
Let us not anticipate matters about a summit meeting of the regions that will not take place until November. I do not think that there is any great distance between us on this matter. I discussed this issue with Henry McLeish yesterday, when I had my first formal meeting with him to discuss the approach of Wales and Scotland—it would have been nice to have Northern Ireland represented but there are reasons why that could not happen yesterday—to the Liège Summit Conference of the Regions. While that is a matter for all the regions together to discuss the right way forward, the priority of the Belgian presidency, which started on Sunday and will last until 31 December, will be to involve the regions, provinces, or small nations of Europe in breaking down the barriers between the governments and citizens of Europe. Christine Chapman referred to the same point in the original question.
Ni ddylem ragdybio pethau ynghylch cyfarfod uwchgynhadledd y rhanbarthau na fydd yn digwydd tan fis Tachwedd. Ni thybiaf fod gwahaniaeth barn mawr rhyngom ar y mater hwn. Trafodais hyn gyda Henry McLeish ddoe, pan gefais fy nghyfarfod ffurfiol cyntaf ag ef i drafod ymagwedd Cymru a’r Alban––byddai wedi bod yn braf cael cynrychiolaeth o Ogledd Iwerddon ond mae rhesymau pam na allai hynny ddigwydd ddoe––tuag at Uwchgynhadledd y Rhanbarthau yn Liège. Er bod y ffordd orau ymlaen yn fater i’r holl ranbarthau ei drafod ar y cyd, blaenoriaeth arlywyddiaeth Gwlad Belg, a ddechreuodd ddydd Sul ac a fydd yn parhau hyd 31 Rhagfyr, fydd cynnwys rhanbarthau, taleithiau neu genhedloedd bach Ewrop yn y broses o chwalu’r rhwystrau rhwng llywodraethau a dinasyddion Ewrop. Cyfeiriodd Christine Chapman at yr un pwynt yn y cwestiwn gwreiddiol.
Effaith Araith y Frenhines ar Gymru
Effects of the Queen’s Speech on Wales
A wnaiff Prif Weinidog Cymru ddatganiad ar effaith Araith y Frenhines ar 20 Mehefin ar Gymru? (OAQ12315)
Will the First Minister make a statement on the effects of the Queen’s Speech of 20 June on Wales? (OAQ12315)
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weindiog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 6
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 6
Byddaf yn gwneud datganiad mwy ffurfiol ar effeithiau Araith y Frenhines ar Gymru yn ystod Cyfarfod Llawn 19 Gorffennaf. Mae Araith y Frenhines yn pwysleisio llawer a chredaf fod pawb yn cytuno â’r pwyslais ar sut i ddarparu a gwella ein gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yng Nghymru. O ran cyflwyno mesurau newydd, hynny yw mesurau y cytunwyd arnynt yn barod ac a enwyd yn Araith y Frenhines, ceir cynnydd o 500 y cant yn y nifer o fesurau y gallem gyfrannu atynt a chael budd ohonynt drwy’r felin ddeddfwriaethol yn San Steffan.
I will make a more formal statement on the effects of the Queen’s Speech on Wales during the Plenary on 19 July. The Queen’s Speech emphasises a great deal and I believe that we would all agree with the emphasis on how to provide and improve our public services in Wales. As far as introducing new Bills is concerned, namely Bills that have already been agreed upon and that were named in this speech, there has been an increase of 500 per cent in the number of Bills that we were able to contribute towards, and benefit from, through the legislative mill in Westminster.
Wrth ddatgan fy muddiant arferol fel meddyg teulu, a yw’r Prif Weinidog yn cyd-fynd â Llywodraeth San Steffan, pan ddywed nad yw hysbysebion tybaco yn annog pobl i ysmygu ac nad oes angen deddfu i’w hatal?
In declaring my usual interest as a GP, does the First Minister agree with the Westminster Government when it says that tobacco advertising does not encourage people to smoke and that legislation is not needed to prohibit it?
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 7
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 7
Na, byddwn yn llawer hapusach pe bai’r mesur ynghylch gwahardd hysbysebu tybaco wedi ymddangos yn Araith y Frenhines. Serch hynny, yn ystod unrhyw senedd gyflawn, sef cyfnod o bedair i bum mlynedd, ni allwch gyflawni popeth yn syth ar ôl yr etholiad. Gwn y bydd y pwysau yn parhau, nid dim ond gan feddygon fel chi, Dai, neu ein Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, Jane Hutt, ond hefyd gan y cyhoedd yn dweud bod angen camau ymlaen ar gyfer gwahardd hysbysebu tybaco. Nid wyf yn sicr a wneir hynny ar raddfa Ewrop neu yn y Deyrnas Gyfunol yn unig. Yn sicr, ceir datblygiadau yn ystod cyfnod y Senedd sydd newydd ddechrau yn San Steffan, ychydig wythnosau yn ôl.
I would be much happier if the Bill to ban tobacco advertising had been included in the Queen’s speech. Nevertheless, during any full parliament, a period of four or five years, you cannot deliver everything immediately after an election. I know that the pressure will continue, not only from doctors such as yourself, Dai, or from our Minister for Health and Social Service, Jane Hutt, but also from the public, saying that we must progress towards banning tobacco advertising. I am not sure whether this will be done on a Europe-wide basis or only within the UK but certainly, there will be progress during the term of this Westminster parliament, which started a few weeks ago.
Rhodri, what gave you greatest pleasure in the Queen’s Speech? Was it seeing the fight against crime at the top of the agenda—crime is a major concern in Colwyn Bay—or was it the sight of Albert Owen, the newly-elected MP for Ynys Môn, on the government benches?
Rhodri, beth roddodd y pleser mwyaf ichi yn Araith y Frenhines? Ai gweld bod y frwydr yn erbyn troseddau ar ben yr agenda––mae troseddu yn bryder mawr ym Mae Colwyn––ynteu gweld Albert Owen, AS newydd Ynys Môn, ar feinciau’r llywodraeth?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 7
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7
You made some interesting comments. However, the key to your question is how were the key factors in the election reflected in the Queen’s Speech. The key factors depended on where you lived in Wales. In some areas it was health and education, health and education, health and education. In Wales’s poorer communities, crime and vandalism were regarded as at least equal to health and education. Members from the Assembly’s four parties may well have had the same experience.
Gwnaethoch rai sylwadau diddorol. Fodd bynnag, byrdwn eich cwestiwn yw sut yr adlewyrchwyd ffactorau allweddol yr etholiad yn Araith y Frenhines. Yr oedd y ffactorau allweddol yn dibynnu ble yng Nghymru yr oeddech yn byw. Mewn rhai ardaloedd clywyd am iechyd ac addysg, iechyd ac addysg, iechyd ac addysg ydoedd. Yng nghymunedau tlotaf Cymru, ystyriwyd bod troseddau a fandaliaeth yr un mor bwysig ag iechyd ac addysg. Efallai fod Aelodau o bedair plaid y Cynulliad wedi cael yr un profiad.
Nick Bourne The Leader of the Welsh Conservatives spoken in English p. 7
Nick Bourne Arweinydd Ceidwadwyr Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7
Given that the Queen’s Speech is an opportunity for the Government to give a full picture of domestic and foreign affairs, were you not disappointed that the only reference to the rural economy was a proposed ban on fox hunting? Should not foot and mouth disease have featured in a package of measures? What action is the Government of Wales taking in response to the absence of any measures on foot and mouth disease in the Westminster Government’s programme?
O gofio bod Araith y Frenhines yn gyfle i’r Llywodraeth roi darlun llawn o faterion domestig a thramor, onid oeddech yn siomedig mai’r unig gyfeiriad at yr economi wledig oedd y gwaharddiad arfaethedig ar hela llwynogod? Oni ddylai clwy’r traed a’r genau fod wedi ei gynnwys mewn pecyn o fesurau? Beth y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud mewn ymateb i absenoldeb unrhyw fesurau ar glwy’r traed a’r genau yn rhaglen Llywodraeth San Steffan?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 8
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8
It would be interesting to know Members’ opinions on what the Queen’s Speech should contain. The speech sets out legislation and major changes in domestic and foreign policy. I do not have a copy of this year’s speech in front of me although I was looking at it just before I came to the Chamber. Issues relating to resources and finance are not usually mentioned in the Queen’s Speech. Measures that involve executive action but do not require legislation are not mentioned in the Queen’s Speech. Your point about foot and mouth disease may be valid, but it is not necessarily a typical matter for the Queen’s Speech.
Byddai’n ddiddorol gwybod barn yr Aelodau ar yr hyn y dylai Araith y Frenhines ei gynnwys. Mae’r araith yn nodi deddfwriaeth a phrif newidiadau mewn polisïau domestig a thramor. Nid oes gennyf gopi o araith eleni o’m blaen, er y bûm yn edrych arni yn union cyn imi ddod i’r Siambr. Ni sonnir am faterion yn ymwneud ag adnoddau a chyllid fel arfer yn Araith y Frenhines. Ni sonnir yn Araith y Frenhines am fesurau sydd yn gofyn am gamau gweithredol ond nad oes angen deddfwriaeth arnynt. Efallai bod eich pwynt ar glwy’r traed a’r genau yn ddilys, ond nid yw o anghenraid yn fater nodweddiadol i’w gynnwys yn Araith y Frenhines.
A Bill to ban fox hunting is not a typical matter for the Queen’s Speech either. However, the speech is still an opportunity to review the Government’s proposals on domestic and foreign affairs. The speech did not contain any proposals relating to foot and mouth disease, which is the most serious issue that faces the country and which became even more serious during last weekend. In the absence of any proposals from Westminster, how is the Government proposing to deal with the deteriorating state of the Welsh rural economy, both for farmers and tourism businesses?
Nid yw Mesur i wahardd hela llwynogod yn fater nodweddiadol i’w gynnwys yn Araith y Frenhines ychwaith. Fodd bynnag, mae’r araith yn dal i fod yn gyfle i adolygu cynigion y Llywodraeth ar faterion domestig a thramor. Nid oedd yr araith yn cynnwys unrhyw gynigion yn ymwneud â chlwy’r traed a’r genau, sef y mater mwyaf difrifol sydd yn wynebu’r wlad ac a ddaeth hyd yn oed yn fwy difrifol dros y penwythnos diwethaf. Yn absenoldeb unrhyw gynigion o San Steffan, sut y mae’r Llywodraeth yn bwriadu ymdrin â dirywiad economi wledig Cymru, ar gyfer ffermwyr a busnesau twristiaeth?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 8
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8
I entirely disagree with your initial observation, Nick. If anyone proposed to introduce a Bill to ban fox hunting, without mentioning it in the Queen’s Speech, that would create a shock in terms of how Westminster conducts its business. A fox hunting ban, by way of a free vote—which was mentioned—is a matter for the Queen’s Speech. The executive and resource actions that you mentioned are important. We have all noted the secondary outbreak of foot and mouth disease in the Libanus area, which is in the central belt of the Brecon Beacons. We are hugely concerned about that. However, we continue to receive blood test results and, when appropriate, we will make a statement on that and on allied effects on the tourism industry. We are considering that issue at the moment. I believe that we will be able to demonstrate, as we have done before, that when a response is required by the farming or tourism industries, we will respond as appropriate and in a timely manner.
Anghytunaf yn llwyr â’ch sylw cyntaf, Nick. Pe bai rhywun yn cynnig cyflwyno Mesur i wahardd hela llwynogod, heb sôn amdano yn Araith y Frenhines, byddai hynny yn syndod o ran y modd y mae San Steffan yn cynnal ei fusnes. Mae gwahardd hela llwynogod, drwy bleidlais rydd––fel y soniwyd––yn fater i Araith y Frenhines. Mae’r camau o ran y weithrediaeth ac adnoddau, y soniasoch amdanynt, yn bwysig. Yr ydym oll wedi gweld yr achosion newydd o glwy’r traed a’r genau yn ardal Libanus, sydd yng nghanol Bannau Brycheiniog. Yr ydym yn bryderus iawn am hynny. Fodd bynnag, yr ydym yn parhau i dderbyn canlyniadau profion gwaed a, phan fydd yn briodol, gwnawn ddatganiad ar hynny a’r effeithiau cysylltiedig ar y diwydiant twristiaeth. Yr ydym yn ystyried y mater hwnnw ar hyn o bryd. Tybiaf y gallwn ddangos, fel y gwnaethom eisoes, pan fydd y diwydiannau ffermio neu dwristiaeth yn dymuno inni ymateb, y gwnawn ni hynny yn briodol ac yn amserol.
Datblygu Polisi o Fewn y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol
Development of Policy within the National Assembly
A wnaiff Prif Weinidog Cymru ddatganiad ar sut y mae argymhellion Pwyllgorau yn dylanwadu ar ddatblygu polisi o fewn y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol? (OAQ12319)
Will the First Minister make a statement on how the recommendations of Committees have an impact on the development of policy within the National Assembly? (OAQ12319)
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 9
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 9
Ceir enghreifftiau o argymhellion Pwyllgorau Pwnc mewn deddfwriaeth a basiwyd yma neu yn San Steffan, gan gynnwys Deddf Comisiynydd Plant Cymru 2000, adroddiad y Grŵp Gweithredu Addysg a Hyfforddiant a’r adolygiad o gymorth i fusnesau bach a chanolig eu maint.
Examples of Subject Committee recommendations included in legislation passed here or in Westminster are the Children’s Commissioner for Wales Act 2000, the Education and Training Action Group report and the review of support for small and medium-sized businesses.
Mae drwgdybiaeth gyffredinol bod y tanwario sylweddol yng nghyllidebau rhai adrannau—addysg, iechyd ac yn y blaen—yn ymwneud â’r angen i ddelio ag argyfyngau megis clwy’r traed a’r genau, llifogydd, y diwydiant dur a chyllido rhaglenni Ewropeaidd. Â’r Pwyllgorau yn trafod blaenoriaethau polisi wrth wneud argymhellion i’r gyllideb, a gawn sicrwydd y bydd unrhyw symudiadau arian yn ystod y flwyddyn sydd yn dod yn agored a thryloyw? A gawn sicrwydd hefyd yr ymgynghorir â’r Pwyllgorau perthnasol ac y rhoddir gwybodaeth iddynt mewn perthynas ag unrhyw symudiadau felly wrth i’r flwyddyn fynd yn ei blaen?
There is general suspicion that the substantial underspend in the budgets of some departments—education, health and so forth—is connected to the need to deal with crises such as foot and mouth disease, flooding, the steel industry and funding European programmes. As the Committees consider policy priorities in making budgetary recommendations, will you give an assurance that any transfer of funds in the coming year will be open and transparent? Will you also give an assurance that the relevant Committees will be consulted and that information be given to them in relation to any such transfers as the year progresses?
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 9
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 9
Mae’n drueni nad yw Edwina Hart yn bresennol—mae hi’n teithio yn ôl i Gaerdydd ar hyn o bryd. Byddai wedi bod yn falch o glywed y cwestiwn, er na fyddai wedi bod yn hapus gyda’r awgrym nad yw hi, o bosibl, yn delio â materion felly yn dryloyw. Rhoddaf sicrwydd ar ran Edwina Hart y bydd unrhyw symudiadau adnoddau rhwng adrannau, neu rhwng sectorau o fewn adrannau, yn dryloyw ac yn cael eu cyhoeddi i’r Cynulliad mewn modd tryloyw.
It is a shame that Edwina Hart is not present—she is travelling back to Cardiff. She would have been glad to hear the question, although your suggestion that she may lack transparency in dealing with such issues would not have pleased her. I give an assurance on behalf of Edwina Hart that any transfer of resources between departments, or between sectors within departments, will be transparent and will be announced to the Assembly in a transparent manner.
What status do you give to Committees’ recommendations in preparing the budget? Do you accept that, in terms of spending priorities, those advised by the Committee should be taken seriously by the Government?
Pa statws a roddwch i argymhellion Pwyllgorau wrth baratoi’r gyllideb? A dderbyniwch, yn nhermau blaenoriaethau gwariant, y dylai’r rhai a gynghorir gan y Pwyllgor gael eu cymryd o ddifrif gan y Llywodraeth?
Datblygu Polisïau yn y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol
Developing Policies in the National Assembly
Sut y mae Prif Weinidog Cymru yn monitro’r modd yr ystyrir safbwyntiau a phrofiadau pobl Cymru wrth ddatblygu polisïau yn y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol? (OAQ12318)
How is the First Minister monitoring the way in which the views and experiences of the people of Wales are built into the process of developing policies in the National Assembly? (OAQ12318)
Datganaf fuddiant fel aelod o Gyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Rhondda Cynon Taf.
I declare an interest as a member of Rhondda Cynon Taff County Borough Council.
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 10
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 10
Yr wyf yn falch eich bod yn parhau fel aelod o grŵp Plaid Cymru ar gyngor Rhondda Cynon Taf.
I am glad that you remain a member of the Plaid Cymru group on Rhondda Cynon Taff council.
Rhoddaf dair esiampl o’r hyn a wnaethom o ran ymestyn democratiaeth drwy’r Cynulliad. Yr enghraifft gyntaf yw’r Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth a’r sesiynau cwestiynau yr wyf fi a Gweinidogion eraill yn eu cynnal gerbron y cyhoedd. Bu hynny’n bleser ac yn brofiad diddorol. Yr ail enghraifft yw’r ymgynghoriad ar-lein ar ‘Gwellcymru.com’ a’r drydedd yw Llais Ifanc. Caiff hynny ei ystyried yn fodel o sut i annog pobl ifanc sydd yn rhy ifanc i bleidleisio i gymryd rhan fel dinasyddion ifanc yn y broses o greu’r Gymru newydd.
I will give three examples of what we have done in terms of extending democracy through the Assembly. The first example is the Regional Committees and the question and answer sessions that I and other Ministers have held with the public. They have been a pleasure and an interesting experience. The second example is the on-line consultation on ‘Betterwales.com’ and the third is Young Voice. It is considered to be a model of how to encourage young people who are under the voting age to participate as young citizens in the process of creating a new Wales.
A ydych yn rhannu’r siom bod nifer o bobl allweddol, er enghraifft aelodau a swyddogion hen gyngor bwrdeistref y Rhondda, wedi gwrthod rhoi tystiolaeth yn yr ymchwiliad i safle tirlenwi Nantygwyddon a bod yr ymchwiliad o’r herwydd yn anghyflawn? A yw hyn yn amharu ar allu’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol i ddysgu gwersi a datblygu polisïau positif sydd yn seiliedig ar wybodaeth gynhwysfawr ac sydd yn adlewyrchiad teg o safbwyntiau pobl Cymru?
Do you share our disappointment that several key individuals, such as members and officials of the former Rhondda borough council, refused to give evidence to the inquiry into the Nantygwyddon landfill site and that the inquiry is therefore incomplete? Does this impinge on the National Assembly’s ability to learn lessons and develop positive policies based on comprehensive knowledge and which are a fair reflection of the viewpoints of the people of Wales?
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 11
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 11
Yr oedd sefydlu’r math o ymchwiliad a drefnwyd gan Sue Essex, fel Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd, a Richard Edwards, fel Cadeirydd Pwyllgor yr Amgylchedd, Cynllunio a Thrafnidiaeth, ar ran y Cynulliad, yn gam mawr ymlaen. Yr oedd yn ffordd o ddelio â phwnc llosg ynglŷn â’r hyn a ddigwyddodd yn ardal un cyngor, a hynny cyn sefydlu’r Cynulliad. Mae’n bosibl fod pobl yn credu ei bod yn drueni nad oedd uwch swyddogion yn ymddangos gerbron yr ymchwiliad. Ond, os ydych yn cynnal ymchwiliad cyhoeddus dan system cyfraith tribiwnlysoedd 1922, fel yn achos ymchwiliad Waterhouse i gam-drin plant, nid yw’n bosibl gorfodi pobl i gymryd rhan.
Establishing the kind of inquiry organised by Sue Essex, as Minister for Environment, and Richard Edwards, as Chair of the Environment, Planning and Transport Committee, on behlaf of the Assembly, was a big step forward. It was a means of dealing with a contentious issue that arose within one council’s boundaries, before the Assembly was even established. It is possible that people believe it to be a matter of regret that senior officials did not appear before the inquiry. However, if you conduct a public inquiry under 1922 tribunal law, as was the case with the Waterhouse inquiry into child abuse, it is not possible to compel people to take part.
When developing transport policy, what account do you intend to take of the views of hauliers? Their hopes were raised when they heard Gordon Brown promising £5 million for a Welsh road haulage fund, but were dashed again when it transpired that not a single penny would come to Wales, and that the National Assembly would not reallocate its budget. Do you think that it is acceptable for your colleague to parade himself for television cameras and bask in plaudits from desperate people when he knows that the aid that he is promising them will not arrive?
Wrth ddatblygu polisi trafnidiaeth, faint o ystyriaeth y bwriadwch ei rhoi i farn cludwyr nwyddau? Codwyd eu gobeithion pan glywsant Gordon Brown yn addo £5 miliwn ar gyfer cronfa cludwyr ffyrdd Cymru, ond fe’u chwalwyd wedyn pan ddatgelwyd na ddeuai yr un geiniog i Gymru, ac na fyddai’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol yn ailddyrannu ei gyllideb. A dybiwch ei bod yn dderbyniol i’ch cyd-Aelod ymddangos o flaen y camerâu teledu ac ymffrostio mewn clodydd gan bobl daer pan ŵyr yn iawn na fydd y cymorth y mae’n ei addo iddynt yn cyrraedd?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 11
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11
This matter is being considered, and no final decision has been made. I entirely resent the implication that either my Ministers or I somehow bask in plaudits while failing to deliver. This matter is under active consideration at present.
Mae’r mater hwn yn cael ei ystyried, ac nid oes penderfyniad terfynol wedi’i wneud. Gwrthwynebaf yn llwyr yr ensyniad fod fy Ngweinidogion neu minnau rhywsut yn ymffrostio mewn clodydd ac yn methu â gwireddu addewidion. Caiff y mater hwn ei ystyried yn ymarferol ar hyn o bryd.
Themâu Trawsbynciol
Cross-cutting Themes
Sut y mae Prif Weinidog Cymru yn monitro effeithiolrwydd y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol o ran sicrhau yr hyrwyddir y tair thema drawsbynciol, cynhwysedd cymdeithasol, cyfle cyfartal a datblygu cynaliadwy, wrth roi polisïau ar waith? (OAQ12316)
How is the First Minister monitoring the effectiveness of the National Assembly in ensuring that the three cross-cutting themes of social inclusion, equality of opportunity and sustainable development are promoted in delivering policies? (OAQ12316)
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 12
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 12
Gwnaf hynny gydag enghraifft, Gareth, sef rhaglen Rhoi Cymunedau’n Cyntaf. O fewn y pythefnos diwethaf, yr ydym wedi clustnodi dros £80 miliwn ar gyfer y rhaglen hon, gan ddewis tua 100 o gymunedau tlotaf Cymru, gan gynnwys dwy yn eich ardal chi. Nid wardiau yw’r rhain. Gan ein bod wedi dangos ein gallu i edrych yn fanwl ar gymunedau, yr ydym wedi gallu clustnodi rhan o’r arian ar gyfer dwy gymuned ar lefel is na ward yn eich etholaeth chi ym Mae Cinmel a Llandudno.
I will do so by giving an example, Gareth, namely the Communities First programme. Within the last fortnight, we have earmarked over £80 million for this programme, choosing about 100 of Wales’s poorest communities, including two in your area. These are not wards. As we have demonstrated our ability to look in detail at communities, we have been able to earmark some of the money for two communities on a sub-ward level in your constituency, in Kinmel Bay and Llandudno.
Yr wyf yn gwerthfawrogi eich ateb. Fodd bynnag, gwraidd cynhwysedd cymdeithasol a chyfle cyfartal yw swyddi a’r hawl i ennill bywoliaeth. Mae adroddiad diweddaraf Dun & Bradstreet yn dangos bod pum busnes yn methu yng Nghymru bob dydd. Pa gamau brys fyddwch chi, fel Prif Weinidog, yn eu cymryd i fynd i’r afael â’r cynnydd aruthrol yn nifer y busnesau sydd yn mynd i’r wal yng Nghymru, yn arbennig yng nghefn gwlad, sydd yn dal i ddioddef sgîl effeithiau clwy’r traed a’r genau?
I appreciate your reply. However, jobs and the right to earn a living are the foundation of social inclusion and equality of opportunity. The latest Dun & Bradstreet report shows that five businesses fail in Wales every day. What emergency steps will you take, as First Minister, to deal with the huge increase in the number of businesses that fail in Wales, particularly in rural areas, which continue to suffer the consequences of foot and mouth disease?
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 12
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 12
Yr oedd cynrychiolydd o Dun & Bradstreet yn sôn am y mater hwn ar Radio Wales fore ddoe, ond, yn anffodus, ni chlywais y rhaglen. Dywedodd fod y cynnydd wedi digwydd o ganlyniad i glwy’r traed a’r genau. Yr oedd yr arwyddion yng ngweddill yr adroddiad yn ddryslyd, gan fod rhai ohonynt yn pwyntio i’r cyfeiriad iawn ac eraill yn pwyntio i’r cyfeiriad anghywir o ran colledion busnesau. O ran y pwynt ar glwy’r traed a’r genau, a’i effaith ar fusnesau bach yng nghefn gwlad Cymru, byddech yn disgwyl i hynny ddigwydd. Yr ydym yn ceisio achub cymaint â phosibl o fusnesau bach a chanolig eu maint.
A Dun & Bradstreet representative talked about this issue on Radio Wales yesterday morning, but, unfortunately, I did not hear the programme. He said that the increase occurred as a result of foot and mouth disease. The indicators in the remainder of the report were confused, with some pointing in the right direction and others in the wrong direction in relation to business failures. With regard to the point on foot and mouth disease and its impact on small businesses in rural Wales, you would expect that to happen. We are trying to save as many of those small and medium sized enterprises as possible.
The effect of foot and mouth disease in not spread evenly throughout Wales. In order to promote our aims, do you not think that resources should be targeted at areas such as Powys, and the Brecon area in particular, that have been hit so hard by the crisis?
Nid yw effaith clwy’r traed a’r genau wedi ei ledaenu’n gyfartal ledled Cymru. Er mwyn hyrwyddo ein hamcanion, oni chytunwch y dylid targedu adnoddau tuag at ardaloedd megis Powys ac ardal Brycheiniog yn arbennig, yr effeithwyd cymaint arnynt gan yr argyfwng?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 13
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13
I could not agree more. Initially, we saw a severe impact in Anglesey, so I visited the Anglesey Sea Zoo when it was in the eye of the storm. However, more recently, it has shifted to Powys, generally, and now finally to the Brecon Beacons with this secondary outbreak in the Libanus area. I agree that we could target the resources at where they are most needed, but I would not exclude the possibility that businesses quite a long way from Powys are suffering. We have heard, admittedly, from anecdotal reports across Wales, that when tourists decide where to spend their holidays and make last minute bookings, they do not always have a regard to the precise location of foot and mouth disease outbreaks. Sometimes they can condemn a whole area as being unsafe to visit because they did not consult the geography textbooks. Unfortunately, that effect can be widespread. However, I agree with the principle that we must look to the Brecon Beacons and Powys.
Cytunaf yn llwyr. Yn gyntaf, gwelsom effaith sylweddol ar Ynys Môn, felly ymwelais â Sŵ Môr Môn pan oedd mewn trybini. Fodd bynnag, yn fwy diweddar, mae wedi symud i Bowys, yn gyffredinol, ac erbyn hyn i Fannau Brycheiniog gyda’r achosion pellach yn ardal Libanus. Cytunaf y gallem dargedu’r adnoddau at yr ardaloedd ble mae eu hangen fwyaf, ond ni fyddwn yn eithrio’r posibilrwydd bod busnesau sydd gryn bellter o Bowys yn dioddef. Yr wyf yn cyfaddef mai drwy adroddiadau anecdotaidd ledled Cymru y clywsom nad yw twristiaid bob amser, wrth benderfynu ble i dreulio eu gwyliau ac wrth drefnu ar y funud olaf, yn ystyried union leoliad argyfwng clwy’r traed a’r genau. Weithiau, drwy beidio ag ymgynghori â’r gwerslyfrau daearyddiaeth, gallant gondemnio ardal gyfan fel ardal nad yw’n ddiogel i ymweld â hi. Yn anffodus, gall hynny gael effaith fawr. Fodd bynnag, cytunaf â’r egwyddor bod yn rhaid inni edrych tuag at Fannau Brycheiniog a Phowys.
Cydbwyllgor y Gweinidogion
Joint Ministerial Committee
Will the First Minister give a progress report on the Joint Ministerial Committee? (OAQ12328)
A wnaiff Prif Weinidog Cymru roi adroddiad ar gynnydd Cydbwyllgor y Gweinidogion? (OAQ12328)
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 13
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13
The full Joint Ministerial Committee meets annually, and last did so in September 2000 in Edinburgh. Preparations for the general election and instability in Northern Ireland meant that the meetings have been less frequent since September. However, I am sure that meetings will recommence now that the general election is over and as soon as conditions in Northern Ireland permit it. The last meeting of one of its sub-committees was a meeting of the Joint Ministerial Committee on the European Union on 1 March this year, in which I participated via video link.
Mae Cydbwyllgor llawn y Gweinidogion yn cyfarfod yn flynyddol. Cynhaliwyd y cyfarfod diwethaf yng Nghaeredin ym mis Medi 2000. Golygodd y paratoadau ar gyfer yr etholiad cyffredinol a’r ansefydlogrwydd yng Ngogledd Iwerddon na fu cyfarfodydd rheolaidd ers mis Medi. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn sicr y bydd y cyfarfodydd yn ailgychwyn, gan fod yr etholiad cyffredinol drosodd bellach, a chyn gynted ag y bydd y sefyllfa yng Ngogledd Iwerddon yn caniatáu hynny. Y cyfarfod diwethaf o un o’i is-bwyllgorau oedd cyfarfod Cydbwyllgor y Gweinidogion ynglŷn â’r Undeb Ewropeaidd ar 1 Mawrth eleni, y cymerais ran ynddo drwy gyfrwng cyswllt fideo.
Is it not the case that one of the purposes of this committee is to iron out problems in the development relationship between Whitehall departments and the devolved administrations? There have now been several instances of what I shall call misunderstandings, especially regarding the former Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions and the Ministry for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, of which the Genetically Modified Farmscale Evaluation Programme is an example. Do you have any plans to raise these matters in the Joint Ministerial Committee?
Onid yw’n wir mai un o ddibenion y pwyllgor hwn yw lleddfu problemau yn y berthynas ddatblygu rhwng adrannau Whitehall â’r gweinyddiaethau datganoledig? Bellach cafwyd nifer o enghreifftiau o’r hyn y byddwn yn eu galw yn gamddealltwriaethau, yn enwedig ynglŷn ag Adran yr Amgylchedd, Trafnidiaeth a’r Rhanbarthau gynt a’r gyn Weinyddiaeth Amaethyddiaeth, Pysgodfeydd a Bwyd, y mae’r Rhaglen Asesu Addasu Genetig Fferm Gyfan yn enghraifft ohono. A oes gennych unrhyw gynlluniau i godi’r materion hyn yng Nghydbwyllgor y Gweinidogion?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 14
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14
We can probably do better than that. It is not only in the Joint Ministerial Committee that these matters can be thrashed out, particularly on agriculture. It is fair to say that there is almost a monthly Joint Ministerial Committee on agricultural matters because of the nature of agriculture and the allied subjects now covered by DEFRA—the Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, which is the newly reorganised ministry in Whitehall. Carwyn Jones will be meeting with the UK agriculture ministers tomorrow. The GM crops issue may be raised then. We are pleased with the action that this administration has taken, of which the Assembly approved, by triggering an automatic notification to the European Commission. That means that this Assembly has effectively put GM crops and their necessary appropriate distance from organic crops and so on firmly on the EU agenda. It will be debated by member states at the next opportunity.
Mae’n debyg y gallem wneud yn well na hynny. Nid yng Nghydbwyllgor y Gweinidogion yn unig y gellir dadlau’r problemau hyn, yn enwedig o ran amaethyddiaeth. Byddai’n deg dweud bod Cydbwyllgor y Gweinidogion yn cyfarfod bron bob mis ynglŷn â materion amaethyddol oherwydd natur amaethyddiaeth a’r pynciau cysylltiedig a gwmpesir bellach gan DEFRA—Adran yr Amgylchedd, Bwyd a Materion Gwledig sef y weinyddiaeth newydd a ad-drefnwyd yn Whitehall. Bydd Carwyn Jones yn cyfarfod yfory â gweinidogion amaethyddiaeth y DU. Gellir codi mater cnydau a addaswyd yn enetig yr adeg honno. Yr ydym yn falch o’r camau y mae’r weinyddiaeth hon wedi eu cymryd, a gymeradwywyd gan y Cynulliad, drwy ysgogi hysbysiad awtomatig i’r Comisiwn Ewropeaidd. Golyga hyn fod y Cynulliad mewn gwirionedd wedi rhoi cnydau a addaswyd yn enetig a’u pellteroedd priodol angenrheidiol oddi wrth gnydau organig ac ati yn gadarn ar agenda’r UE. Bydd yr aelod wladwriaethau yn cynnal dadl ar hyn y tro nesaf.
The Joint Ministerial Committee aids communication between ministers in the various legislatures. Do the two Liberal Democrat members of your Cabinet meet with their Westminster counterparts, and will they be representing us at any future meetings of the Joint Ministerial Committees?
Mae Cydbwyllgor y Gweinidogion yn cynorthwyo’r cyfathrebu rhwng gweinidogion yn y cyrff deddfwriaethol amrywiol. A yw’r ddau aelod Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn eich Cabinet yn cyfarfod â’u cymheiriaid yn San Steffan, ac a fyddant yn ein cynrychioli mewn unrhyw gyfarfodydd Cydbwyllgor y Gweinidogion yn y dyfodol?
Rhaglen Ddeddfwriaethol Arfaethedig Llywodraeth y DU
UK Government’s Forthcoming Legislative Programme
What meetings has the First Minister had with the Secretary of State for Wales regarding the UK Government’s forthcoming legislative programme? (OAQ12336)
Pa gyfarfodydd y mae Prif Weinidog Cymru wedi’u cynnal gydag Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru ynghylch rhaglen ddeddfwriaethol arfaethedig Llywodraeth y DU? (OAQ12336)
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 15
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15
My colleagues and I are involved in an ongoing dialogue with the Secretary of State for Wales—on a daily basis—and other UK Ministers—less frequently—concerning the Government’s legislative programme. I believe that the evidence for that is in the Queen’s Speech.
Mae fy nghyd-Aelodau a minnau yn rhan o ddeialog barhaus ag Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru—yn ddyddiol—a Gweinidogion eraill y DU—mewn perthynas â rhaglen ddeddfwriaethol y Llywodraeth. Credaf fod tystiolaeth ynglŷn â hynny yn Araith y Frenhines.
Will you work with the Secretary of State for Wales to ensure that the needs of deprived families in Wales are fully taken into account in the Welfare Reform Bill and the Tax Credits Bill and that they reflect our agenda in Wales for tackling poverty and inequality?
A wnewch chi gydweithio ag Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru er mwyn sicrhau bod anghenion teuluoedd difreintiedig yng Nghymru yn cael eu hystyried yn llawn yn y Mesur Diwygio Lles a’r Mesur Credydau Treth a’u bod yn adlewyrchu ein hagenda yng Nghymru ar gyfer mynd i’r afael â thlodi ac anghydraddoldeb?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 15
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15
Yes, I will. There are many examples of that active involvement if you consider Communities First, which is essentially devised to solve problems related to poverty in Wales. That fits in well with the UK Government agenda in terms of introducing the Working Families Tax Credit and other measures such as the minimum wage, which you mentioned. That work is ongoing as the Minister for Health and Social Services’ statement this afternoon on the Health Inequalities Fund will demonstrate.
Gwnaf. Ceir sawl enghraifft o’r cyfranogiad gweithredol hwnnw os ystyriwch Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf, a gynlluniwyd yn bennaf er mwyn datrys y problemau sydd yn ymwneud â thlodi yng Nghymru. Mae hynny’n gweddu’n dda ag agenda Llywodraeth y DU o ran cyflwyno’r Credyd Treth i Deuluoedd sy’n Gweithio a mesurau eraill megis yr isafswm cyflog, y soniasoch amdano. Mae’r gwaith hwnnw’n parhau fel y dengys datganiad y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol ar y Gronfa Anghydraddoldebau Iechyd y prynhawn yma.
In all of these matters, our aim is to build on that partnership to ensure that the poorest people in society are enabled to play a full role in society and raise themselves up by their bootstraps, individually or through their families or communities. We will do as much as is humanly possible to achieve that through the political and democratic framework, whether that framework operates at a Westminster or Wales level.
Ein nod, gyda phob un o’r materion hyn, yw adeiladu ar y bartneriaeth honno er mwyn sicrhau bod y bobl dlotaf mewn cymdeithas yn gallu chwarae rhan lawn mewn cymdeithas a chodi eu hunain gerfydd careiau eu hesgidiau, fel unigolion neu drwy gyfrwng eu teuluoedd neu eu cymunedau. Gwnawn gymaint o fewn gallu dynol â phosibl i gyflawni hynny drwy gyfrwng y fframwaith gwleidyddol a democrataidd, pa un a yw’r fframwaith yn gweithredu ar lefel San Steffan neu lefel Cymru.
The Local Government Act 2000 split powers between the Assembly and the Secretary of State for Wales, for control over certain plans that local authorities must propose. As a Party, we have asked on several occasions how we can overcome this situation. My colleague, Jocelyn Davies, wrote to you on 12 February and is still awaiting an answer on this issue.
Rhannodd Deddf Llywodraeth Leol 2000 bwerau rhwng y Cynulliad ac Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru, o ran rheolaeth dros gynlluniau arbennig y mae’n rhaid i awdurdodau lleol eu cynnig. Fel Plaid, gofynasom ar sawl achlysur ym mha fodd y gallwn oresgyn y sefyllfa hon. Ysgrifennodd fy nghyd-Aelod, Jocelyn Davies, atoch ar 12 Chwefror ac mae’n parhau i ddisgwyl am ateb ynglŷn â’r mater hwn.
How will we avoid that happening again, where powers are split between this body and the Secretary of State for Wales? How are you dealing with the situation, regarding sections 5 and 6 of the Local Government Act 2000?
Sut y gallwn osgoi i hynny ddigwydd eto, lle mae pwerau wedi eu rhannu rhwng y corff hwn ac Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru? Sut yr ymdriniwch â’r sefyllfa, o ran adrannau 5 a 6 o Ddeddf Llywodraeth Leol 2000?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 16
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16
I apologise to Jocelyn if I have failed to respond to her since February. That is unacceptable. I will look into the matter at the end of this session.
Ymddiheuraf i Jocelyn os methais â’i hateb ers mis Chwefror. Mae hynny’n annerbyniol. Edrychaf i mewn i’r mater ar ddiwedd y cyfarfod hwn.
The wider issue is exactly where the dividing line comes between the overarching responsibilities of the UK Government in various fields and our specific devolved powers. How should we interpret the Government of Wales Act 1998 and other measures, regarding who acts to control local government or who has the last word on local government matters? If there are untidy edges in that area, Paul Murphy and I are in agreement that the sooner that they are cleared up, the better.
Y mater ehangach yw ble yn union mae’r llinell rhwng cyfrifoldebau trosfwaol Llywodraeth y DU mewn amrywiol feysydd a’n pwerau datganoledig penodol. Sut y dylem ddehongli Deddf Llywodraeth Cymru 1998 a mesurau eraill, o ran pwy sydd yn gweithredu i reoli llywodraeth leol neu pwy sydd â’r gair olaf ynglŷn â materion llywodraeth leol? Os oes ymylon blêr yn y maes hwnnw, mae Paul Murphy a minnau yn cytuno mai gorau po gyntaf y cânt eu tacluso.
A ydych wedi trafod cynnig y llywodraeth ar arbenigo mewn ysgolion gydag Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru? A all y cynnig arwain at system ddwy-haen, gan gael effaith negyddol ar Gymru?
Have you discussed the government’s proposal for specialist schools with the Secretary of State for Wales? Could this proposal lead to a two-tier system, having a negative effect on Wales?
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 16
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 16
Gallai’r cynnig gael effaith negyddol ar Gymru, mewn theori. Darllenais gynnwys Araith y Frenhines ynglŷn ag ysgolion arbenigol. Os y deallaf fwriad Estelle Morris, yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol dros Addysg a Sgiliau, y nod yw trosglwyddo tua 50 y cant o ysgolion uwchradd Lloegr i’r sector arbenigol hwn, o fewn pum mlynedd.
The proposal could, in theory, have a negative effect on Wales. I read the contents of the Queen’s Speech on specialist schools. If I understand Estelle Morris’s intention as Secretary of State for Education and Skills, the aim is to transfer around 50 per cent of England’s secondary schools to this specialist sector within five years.
Nid oes bwriad o’r fath yng Nghymru. Nid oedd maniffesto’r Blaid Lafur yng Nghymru yn cyfeirio at y fath newid yng nghyfundrefn ysgolion cyfun Cymru.
There is no such intention in Wales. The Welsh Labour Party’s manifesto did not refer to such a change in our Welsh comprehensive school system.
Effaith ‘Rhoi Cymru’n Gyntaf’
Impact of ‘Putting Wales First’
What impact has the implementation of ‘Putting Wales First’ had in the Assembly region of South Wales Central? (OAQ12333)
Pa effaith y mae gweithredu’r ddogfen ‘Rhoi Cymru’n Gyntaf’ wedi ei chael ar ranbarth Canol De Cymru? (OAQ12333)
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 17
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17
Rather than reading out endless lists, I will take one example. I do not think that endless lists would benefit anyone, and would breach the indications made by the Presiding Officer last week.
Yn hytrach na darllen rhestrau di-ddiwedd ar goedd, nodaf un enghraifft. Ni chredaf y byddai rhestrau di-ddiwedd o fudd i unrhyw un, a byddai’n groes i’r canllawiau a gafwyd gan y Llywydd yr wythnos diwethaf.
I refer to the additional resources made available to the three local education authorities in South Wales Central, namely Cardiff, Rhondda Cynon Taff and the Vale of Glamorgan. Since ‘Putting Wales First’ and its commitments were published, an additional £20 million has been put into either revenue or capital allocations for schools in those three local authorities.
Cyfeiriaf at yr adnoddau ychwanegol a ryddhawyd i dri awdurdod addysg lleol yng Nghanol De Cymru, sef Caerdydd, Rhondda Cynon Taf a Bro Morgannwg. Ers cyhoeddi ‘Rhoi Cymru’n Gyntaf’ a’i ymrwymiadau, rhoddwyd £20 miliwn ychwanegol i mewn i naill ai ddyraniadau refeniw neu ddyraniadau cyfalaf ar gyfer yr ysgolion yn y tri awdurdod lleol hynny.
Does the First Minister agree that two strategic road schemes are desperately needed in South Wales Central: the Eastern Distributor Link Road to Cardiff Bay, and the Cardiff International Airport Access Road?
A gytuna Prif Weinidog Cymru fod angen dybryd am ddau gynllun ffordd strategol yng Nghanol De Cymru: y Ffordd Gyswllt Ddosbarthu Ddwyreiniol i Fae Caerdydd, a’r Ffordd Fynediad i Faes Awyr Rhyngwladol Caerdydd?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 17
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17
I am not sure about ‘desperately’ needed. The schemes are needed, but not necessarily desperately needed. If you compare the airports of Cardiff and Bristol, the latter has bad road congestion, but is neverthless making major strides without a major road. Therefore, it is not possible to argue that a road scheme is the be-all and end-all of improving passenger numbers, or scheduled flight numbers from Cardiff. Bristol has done so while suffering the same poor road access.
Nid wyf yn sicr am angen ‘dybryd’. Mae angen y cynlluniau, ond nid yn ‘ddybryd’ o anghenraid. Os cymharwch feysydd awyr Caerdydd a Bryste, mae gan yr olaf dagfeydd traffig gwael, ond er gwaethaf hynny gwna gamau breision heb brif ffordd. Felly, nid yw’n bosibl dadlau mai cynllun ffordd yw’r unig ateb er mwyn gwella niferoedd y teithwyr, na niferoedd yr hediadau rheolaidd o Gaerdydd. Gwnaeth Bryste hynny tra’n dioddef yr un mynediad ffordd gwael.
The other road that David mentioned, the Eastern Distributor Link Road, is a wonderful road scheme, but is very expensive per mile. Therefore, it is still being considered with possible private finance initiative by Cardiff City and County Council. However, we have not yet received such an application. That is the latest position as I understand it. If that understanding is wrong, I will write to David to indicate the proper position.
Mae’r ffordd arall y soniodd David amdani, y Ffordd Gyswllt Ddosbarthu Dwyreiniol, yn gynllun ffordd bendigedig, ond yn ddrud iawn fesul milltir. Felly, mae’n parhau i gael ei ystyried gyda menter cyllid preifat o bosibl gan Gyngor Dinas a Sir Caerdydd. Fodd bynnag, hyd yma ni dderbyniasom gais o’r fath. Dyna’r sefyllfa ddiweddaraf yn ôl yr hyn a ddeallaf. Os yw’r ddealltwriaeth honno’n anghywir, byddaf yn ysgrifennu at David i nodi’r sefyllfa gywir.
One of the commitments of the partnership agreement is to bring school buildings in Wales up to a standard fit for the twenty-first century. You referred earlier to this year’s investment. In view of the £30 million underspend on school buildings in Wales last year, do you think that school buildings will be in a fit state before the end of the twenty-first century? There are only 99 years left of it.
Mae un o ymrwymiadau’r cytundeb partneriaeth y wdod ag adeiladau ysgolion yng Nghymru i safon dderbyniol ar gyfer yr unfed ganrif ar hugain. Cyfeiriasoch yn gynharach at y buddsoddiad eleni. O gofio’r tanwariant o £30 miliwn ar adeiladau ysgolion yng Nghymru y llynedd, a gredwch y bydd adeiladau ysgolion mewn cyflwr derbyniol cyn diwedd yr unfed ganrif ar hugain? Dim ond 99 mlynedd ohoni sydd ar ôl.
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 18
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18
These matters are for joint decision and joint action between local authorities and the Assembly. The local authorities must run the programmes and they must apply to us for the funding to help them to do so. We have provided the additional funds.
Mae’r materion hyn i’w penderfynu a’u gweithredu ar y cyd rhwng awdurdodau lleol â’r Cynulliad. Rhaid i’r awdurdodau lleol redeg y rhaglenni a rhaid iddynt wneud cais inni am yr arian i’w helpu i wneud hynny. Yr ydym wedi darparu’r arian ychwanegol.
However, as has been traditional in Wales for at least 30 years, local authorities tend to underspend on their capital programmes on schools. Sometimes it is for geographical reasons relating to difficult land areas in the Valleys. With the removal of the coal tips that is now largely an issue of the past.
Fodd bynnag, fel y bu’n draddodiad yng Nghymru am 30 mlynedd o leiaf, mae awdurdodau lleol yn tueddu i danwario ar eu rhaglenni cyfalaf o ran ysgolion. Weithiau ceir rhesymau daearyddol sydd yn ymwneud ag ardaloedd tir anodd yn y Cymoedd. Mae hynny yn fater sydd yn perthyn yn bennaf i’r gorffennol bellach ers diflaniad y pyllau glo.
At other times, the fact that an authority has not had a capital programme for a long time can be a cause. If the authority does not have the machinery, nothing happens when it presses the buttons. People are not used to building schools. Now that we are putting the money in, it will take a while to crank up the machinery so that the underspend seen during the last financial year will not occur in the future.
Ar adegau eraill, gall y ffaith na fu rhaglen gyfalaf gan awdurdod lleol ers amser maith fod yn rheswm. Os nad oes peirianwaith gan yr awdurdod, ni fydd unrhyw beth yn digwydd pan fydd yn pwyso’r botymau. Nid yw pobl wedi arfer ag adeiladu ysgolion. Gan ein bod yn rhoi’r arian ar ei gyfer yn awr, cymer beth amser i danio’r peiriannau fel na fydd y tanwariant a welwyd yn y flwyddyn ariannol ddiwethaf yn digwydd eto yn y dyfodol.
Cynorthwyo Trigolion Cymraeg y Wladfa
Assistance to Welsh Language Speakers in Patagonia
Pa gymorth gall y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol ei gynnig i gynorthwyo trigolion Cymraeg y Wladfa ym Mhatagonia i gadw eu hiaith a’u diwylliant? (OAQ12313)
What assistance can the National Assembly offer to assist the Welsh language speakers in Patagonia in preserving their language and culture? (OAQ12313)
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 19
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 19
Yn Ebrill 2000, cyhoeddodd Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru £130,000 mewn nawdd dros dair blynedd ar gyfer prosiect i gefnogi’r Gymraeg a diwylliant Cymreig yn nhalaith Chubut yr Ariannin. Rheolir y prosiect ar ran y Cynulliad gan y Cyngor Prydeinig mewn cydweithrediad â Chymdeithas Cymru/Ariannin a Chanolfan Dysgu Cymraeg i Oedolion Prifysgol Caerdydd. Cyfarfûm â nifer o’r rhai a fu’n gysylltiedig â’r prosiect hwn yn ystod fy ymweliad diweddar â Chubut, gan gynnwys pedwar athro o Gymru sydd yn gweithio yn y dalaith honno. Bydd tri athro arall o Gymru yn hedfan i Chubut ddiwedd y mis.
In April 2000, the National Assembly for Wales announced £130,000 of funding over three years for a project to support the Welsh language and culture in the Chubut province in Argentina. The project is managed on behalf of the Assembly by the British Council in conjunction with the Wales/Argentina Society and Cardiff University’s Welsh Language Teaching Centre for Adults. I met a number of people who have been involved with this project during my recent visit to Chubut, including four teachers from Wales who are working in that province. Three other teachers from Wales will fly out to Chubut at the end of this month.
Yr oedd eich ymweliad fel Prif Weinidog Cymru â’r Wladfa ym Mhatagonia yn ddigwyddiad hanesyddol. Mae’r ffaith bod yno filoedd o bobl a all siarad Cymraeg, a hynny dros 130 o flynyddoedd ar ôl i’r Cymry cyntaf gyrraedd ar y Mimosa, yn dangos cymaint y maent yn trysori eu hiaith. A gytunwch mai’r ffordd orau inni roi hwb i achos Cymraeg Patagonia yw trwy ddangos esiampl gan osod y sail i alluogi’r iaith i ffynnu yng Nghymru?
Your visit as the First Minister of Wales to Y Wladfa in Patagonia was an historic occasion. The fact that there are thousands of people who can speak Welsh, over 130 years after the first Welsh people arrived on the Mimosa, shows how much they treasure their language. Do you agree that the best way to advance the cause of the Welsh language in Patagonia is to lead by example through providing a strong foundation to enable the language to prosper in Wales?
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 19
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 19
Ydw, wrth gwrs, oherwydd bod unrhyw broblemau a gawn wrth helpu’r Gymraeg i oroesi yn erbyn y gwasgu sydd yn dod o’r cyfryngau, ac yn y blaen, yn llawer gwaeth yn Chubut. Dim ond rhwng 5,000 a 10,000 o bobl sydd yn siarad Cymraeg yn Chubut. Ni ddylem geisio gor-ddweud llwyddiant y Gymraeg, na dibrisio cymaint o ymdrech yw cadw’r Gymraeg yn fyw yn Chubut. Pan ofynnais faint sydd yn siarad Cymraeg, yr oeddent yn ddigon gonest i ddweud eu bod yn claddu mwy o siaradwyr Cymraeg bob wythnos.
Yes, of course, because any problems that we might have in helping the Welsh language survive in the face of pressures from the media and so on, are much worse in Chubut. There are only between 5,000 and 10,000 Welsh speakers in Chubut. We should not try to over-emphasise the success of the Welsh language, or underestimate the effort involved in preserving the Welsh language in Chubut. When I asked how many Welsh speakers were left, they were honest enough to say that they bury more Welsh speakers every week.
Mae’n anodd, yn enwedig yn awr, gan fod rhyw hanner ohonynt wedi rhoi’r gorau i ffermio ac wedi symud i’r trefi i’r byd masnach a gweinyddiaeth gyhoeddus. Mae’n llawer haws cadw’r Gymraeg os ffermio yw’r prif yrfa sydd ar gael, ond nid yw hynny’n wir i lawer yn Chubut erbyn hyn.
It is difficult, especially now that about half of them have given up farming and have moved into the towns to the world of commerce and public services. It is much easier to preserve the Welsh language if farming is the main career option, but that is not the case for many in Chubut now.
Cynorthwyo Gweinidogion y Cabinet
Assisting Cabinet Ministers
Will the First Minister make a statement on his role in assisting Cabinet Ministers with their delegated portfolios? (OAQ12329)
A wnaiff Prif Weinidog Cymru ddatganiad ar ei rôl o ran cynorthwyo Gweinidogion y Cabinet gyda’r portffolios a ddirprwywyd iddynt? (OAQ12329)
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 20
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20
I chair the Cabinet sub-committees on Wales and the world, sustainable development and Corus. I chair the Corus sub-committee jointly with the Deputy First Minister and Minister for Economic Development. When the minutes of the first Cabinet sub-committee meetings are published six weeks after those meetings, you will be able to follow those meetings in great detail.
Cadeiriaf is-bwyllgorau’r Cabinet ar Gymru a’r byd, datblygu cynaliadwy a Corus. Cadeiriaf is-bwyllgor Corus ar y cyd â Dirprwy Brif Weinidog Cymru a’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd. Pan gyhoeddir cofnodion cyntaf cyfarfodydd is-bwyllgorau’r Cabinet chwe wythnos ar ôl y cyfarfodydd hynny, gallwch ddilyn y cyfarfodydd hynny mewn cryn fanylder.
Many claims have been made that you have played a leading role in the education portfolio, with a particular interest in the WJEC. First Minister, this is your opportunity to clear up this matter: have you sought to influence any member of the WJEC’s board, or made representation to anyone, seeking to influence members of that board in their interest, activities and investigations in their European unit?
Gwnaethpwyd nifer o honiadau eich bod wedi chwarae rhan flaenllaw yn y portffolio addysg, gyda diddordeb arbennig yn CBAC. Dyma eich cyfle, Brif Weinidog Cymru, i ddatrys y mater hwn unwaith ac am byth: a ydych wedi ceisio dylanwadu ar unrhyw aelod o fwrdd CBAC, neu wedi gwneud sylwadau i unrhyw un, gan geisio dylanwadu ar aelodau’r bwrdd hwnnw o ran eu diddordeb, gweithgareddau a’u hymchwiliadau i’w huned Ewropeaidd?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 20
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20
Absolutely not.
Ddim o gwbwl.
Who is assisting whom? Are the Liberal Democrats assisting Labour in forming the coalition, or vice versa? For example, how many of the Assembly’s policies during the partnership Government’s lifetime could have been proposed and passed if the coalition had not existed?
Pwy sydd yn cynorthwyo pwy? A yw’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn cynorthwyo Llafur wrth ffurfio’r glymblaid, neu fel arall? Er enghraifft, sawl un o bolisïau’r Cynulliad yn ystod oes y Llywodraeth bartneriaeth a fyddai wedi cael eu cynnig a’u derbyn pe na byddai’r glymblaid yn bodoli?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 20
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20
It is impossible to say because, in any collective effort, you cannot decide, for example, that an issue came from the Liberal Democrats. Much as you would like to see a split in the coalition, Janet, I am sorry that I must disappoint you and say that it is a collective effort. We are not familiar with coalitions in the United Kingdom. There is a coalition in Scotland and we have one here in Wales, which we usually refer to as a partnership Government. We are not familiar with them in Britain, although there are some rare examples in central Government. However, they are extremely common on mainland Europe. As a result, you would not bother to ask this kind of question were you in Holland, Germany or France, as it would be seen as an idle pursuit for the occasional academic, not a worthy pursuit for an active politician, as it gets you nowhere.
Mae’n amhosibl dweud, gan na allwch benderfynu, mewn unrhyw ymdrech ar y cyd, i fater, er enghraifft, ddeillio o’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol. Er cymaint yr hoffech weld rhwyg yn y glymblaid, Janet, mae’n ddrwg gennyf eich siomi a dweud mai ymdrech ar y cyd ydyw. Nid ydym yn gyfarwydd â chlymbleidiau yn y Deyrnas Unedig. Ceir clymblaid yn yr Alban ac mae gennym un yma yng Nghymru, y cyfeiriwn ati fel arfer fel Llywodraeth bartneriaeth. Nid ydym yn gyfarwydd â hwy ym Mhrydain, er y ceir rhai enghreifftiau prin yn y Llywodraeth ganolog. Fodd bynnag, maent yn gyffredin iawn ar dir mawr Ewrop. O ganlyniad, ni fyddech yn trafferthu gofyn y math hwn o gwestiwn pe byddech yn yr Iseldiroedd, yr Almaen neu Ffrainc, gan y byddai’n cael ei ystyried fel gweithgaredd dibwys ar gyfer yr ysgolhaig achlysurol, ac nid yn weithgaredd teilwng ar gyfer gwleidydd gweithredol, gan nad yw’n arwain at unrhyw beth.
Are you aware of the coalition between Plaid Cymru and Conservative members of the Vale of Glamorgan Council?
A ydych yn ymwybodol o’r glymblaid rhwng Plaid Cymru ac aelodau Ceidwadol Cyngor Bro Morgannwg?
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 21
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21
Order. This question is not about the Vale of Glamorgan.
Trefn. Nid yw’r cwestiwn hwn yn ymwneud â Bro Morgannwg.
Question 12 has been transferred for written answer.
Trosglwyddwyd Cwestiwn 12 ar gyfer ateb ysgrifenedig.
Newid Targedau ‘Rhoi Cymru’n Gyntaf’
Altering the Targets Outlined in ‘Putting Wales First’
Does the First Minister plan to alter the targets outlined in the administration’s policy document ‘Putting Wales First’? (OAQ12331)
A ydyw Prif Weinidog Cymru yn bwriadu newid y targedau a amlinellwyd yn nogfen bolisi’r weinyddiaeth, ‘Rhoi Cymru’n Gyntaf’? (OAQ12331)
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 21
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21
The Cabinet is committed to the objectives outlined in the partnership agreement. We set out how we intended to achieve the commitments it contains in the annual business programme. We recently reported on progress in a statement on 20 March. Any changes will be made within Cabinet and reflected in a revised strategic plan that will soon be issued for consultation.
Mae’r Cabinet yn ymrwymedig i’r amcanion a amlinellwyd yn y cytundeb partneriaeth. Yr ydym yn nodi sut y bwriadwn gyflawni’r ymrwymiadau y mae’n ei gynnwys yn y rhaglen fusnes flynyddol. Adroddasom yn ddiweddar ar y cynnydd mewn datganiad a wnaethpwyd ar 20 Mawrth. Caiff unrhyw newidiadau eu gwneud o fewn y Cabinet a’u hadlewyrchu yn y cynllun strategol diwygiedig a gyhoeddir yn fuan ar gyfer ymgynghori.
An announcement was made during Plenary questions last week that you will churn out yet another policy document, in addition to ‘Betterwales.com’ and ‘Putting Wales First’. Do you realise that the job of Government is not merely to issue documents, but to take actions and to put into practice policies that affect the families and communities of Wales? When will you and your administration get on with the business of Government instead of acting like a publishing company?
Gwnaethpwyd cyhoeddiad yn ystod cwestiynau’r Cyfarfod Llawn yr wythnos diwethaf y byddwch yn cynhyrchu dogfen bolisi arall, yn ogystal â ‘Gwellcymru.com’ a ‘Rhoi Cymru’n Gyntaf’. Oni sylweddolwch nad gwaith Llywodraeth yw cyhoeddi dogfennau yn unig, ond yn hytrach cymryd camau a chyflwyno polisïau a fydd yn effeithio ar deuluoedd a chymunedau Cymru? Pa bryd y byddwch chi a’ch gweinyddiaeth yn bwrw ymlaen â busnes Llywodraeth yn hytrach na gweithredu fel cwmni cyhoeddi?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 22
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22
Last week we announced a policy to do just that, namely the pilot on the Welsh baccalaureate, which you went right over the top in attacking. We cannot win. If we issue a policy document, you say that you do not like it because it is all paper and no action, but when we announce some action you say that you are not in favour because you do not like the policy. Which way do you want it? You should take your question back for further research.
Yr wythnos diwethaf, cyhoeddasom bolisi er mwyn gwneud hynny’n union, sef y cynllun peilot ar y fagloriaeth Gymreig, yr aethoch dros ben llestri yn llwyr wrth ymosod arno. Ni allwn ennill. Os cyhoeddwn ddogfen bolisi, dywedwch nad ydych yn ei hoffi gan mai cynhyrchu papur a pheidio â gweithredu ydyw, ond pan fyddwn yn cyhoeddi camau gweithredu dywedwch nad ydych o’u plaid gan nad ydych yn hoffi’r polisi. Pa un yw’r ffordd orau gennych? Dylech dynnu’ch cwestiwn yn ôl er mwyn gwneud gwaith ymchwil pellach arno.
Datganiad ar Lansio’r Fframwaith Gwasanaeth Cenedlaethol ar gyfer Clefyd Coronaidd y Galon
Statement on the Launch of the Coronary Heart Disease National Service Framework
Jane Hutt The Minister for Health and Social Services spoken in English p. 22
Jane Hutt Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22
I am pleased to announce the launch of the coronary heart disease national service framework in Wales. Many of you have taken the opportunity to visit today’s lunchtime display, where you could see the preventative measures and treatment on offer. I am grateful to Dr Cockcroft and Professor Chamberlain and their teams for putting on such an interesting exhibition. We also linked up with the north Wales health fair, where Dr Gill Todd and her team at the Specialised Health Services Commission, together with the Welsh Centre for Postgraduate Pharmaceutical Education, are hosting the first of their coronary heart disease health fairs.
Yr wyf yn falch i gyhoeddi lansio’r fframwaith gwasanaeth cenedlaethol ar gyfer clefyd coronaidd y galon yng Nghymru. Achubodd nifer ohonoch ar y cyfle i ymweld â’r arddangosfa yn ystod amser cinio heddiw, ble y gallech weld y mesurau ataliol a’r driniaeth sydd ar gael. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i Dr Cockcroft a’r Athro Chamberlain a’u timau am drefnu arddangosfa mor ddiddorol. Ffurfiwyd cyswllt hefyd â’r ffair iechyd yng ngogledd Cymru, lle y mae Dr Gill Todd a’i thîm yn y Comisiwn Gwasanaethau Iechyd Arbenigol, ynghyd â’r Ganolfan Gymreig ar gyfer Addysg Fferyllol Ôl-raddedig, yn cynnal y cyntaf o’u ffeiriau clefyd coronaidd y galon.
Coronary heart disease is a major cause of ill health and death in Wales. For example, one in five adults is being treated for heart disease, and there were over 7,000 deaths in Wales from coronary heart disease during 1998. Reported rates for heart disease vary across Wales, but some of the highest rates are in the south Wales Valleys area. I can think of no better example of where there is a need to apply a coherent, co-ordinated and concerted approach to reducing inequalities in health, thereby tackling coronary heart disease for all those affected in Wales. The mechanism for doing that in Wales is the national service framework. However, I should make it crystal clear that national service frameworks are a process, not an event. The coronary heart disease national service framework will drive up quality, tackle variations in access and clinical care, increase the effectiveness of care and enhance the experience of people who use the services.
Clefyd coronaidd y galon yw un o brif achosion afiechyd a marwolaeth yng Nghymru. Er enghraifft, mae un oedolyn ym mhob pump yn derbyn triniaeth ar gyfer clefyd y galon, ac yr oedd dros 7,000 o farwolaethau yn sgîl clefyd coronaidd y galon yng Nghymru yn ystod 1998. Mae’r cyfraddau o glefyd y galon a gofnodwyd yn amrywio ar draws Cymru, ond mae rhai o’r cyfraddau uchaf yn ardal Cymoedd de Cymru. Ni allaf feddwl am enghraifft well lle y mae angen rhoi ymagwedd gydlynol, gydgysylltiedig a chydlynol ar waith i leihau anghyfartaleddau mewn iechyd, gan fynd i’r afael â chlefyd coronaidd y galon ar gyfer yr holl bobl hynny yr effeithir arnynt yng Nghymru. Y ddyfais ar gyfer gwneud hynny yng Nghymru yw’r fframwaith gwasanaeth cenedlaethol. Fodd bynnag, dylwn ei gwneud yn hollol glir mai proses yn hytrach na digwyddiad yw’r fframweithiau gwasanaeth cenedlaethol. Bydd y fframwaith gwasanaeth cenedlaethol ar gyfer clefyd y galon yn gwella ansawdd, yn mynd i’r afael ag amrywiadau o ran mynediad a gofal clinigol, yn cynyddu effeithiolrwydd gofal ac yn gwella profiad y bobl hynny sydd yn defnyddio’r gwasanaethau.
I also want to remind you of the excellent and innovative work that is going on across Wales. For example, the Ynys Môn local health group has established a chronic disease management system for patients with coronary heart disease. Two thousand seven hundred people have been identified with, or at a high risk of developing the disease, which is about 4 per cent of the population. All these people are now being provided with information about their risk and are offered an appropriate treatment plan. I was delighted to be able to present the Ynys Môn local health group today with an excellence award for the treatment of coronary heart disease—the first such award in Wales.
Hoffwn hefyd eich atgoffa o’r gwaith rhagorol a dyfeisgar a wneir ledled Cymru. Er enghraifft, sefydlodd grŵp iechyd lleol Ynys Môn system rheoli afiechydon cronig ar gyfer cleifion â chlefyd coronaidd y galon. Canfuwyd bod 2,700 o bobl yn dioddef o’r clefyd, neu bod risg uchel iddynt ddatblygu’r clefyd, sef tua 4 y cant o’r boblogaeth. Bellach mae’r holl bobl hyn yn derbyn gwybodaeth am eu risg a chynigir y cynllun triniaeth priodol iddynt. Yr oeddwn wrth fy modd o allu cyflwyno gwobr ragoriaeth i grŵp iechyd lleol Ynys Môn heddiw am driniaeth ar gyfer clefyd coronaidd y galon—y wobr gyntaf o’i bath yng Nghymru.
Coronary heart disease is a major issue and a great deal of care already takes place at the primary care level, which, for many, is the first point of contact and the source of continuing care. We must do everything we can to ensure that we support GPs and nurses locally to continue to deliver services and to develop new services.
Mae clefyd coronaidd y galon yn fater pwysig ac mae llawer o ofal eisoes yn digwydd ar lefel gofal sylfaenol, sef y pwynt cyswllt cyntaf ar gyfer llawer o bobl yn ogystal â ffynhonnell gofal parhaus. Rhaid inni wneud popeth o fewn ein gallu i sicrhau ein bod yn cefnogi meddygon teulu a nyrsys yn lleol i barhau i ddarparu gwasanaethau a datblygu gwasanaethau newydd.
The coronary heart disease national service framework sets out five clear standards and practical actions that must be taken to implement those standards. Standard 1 attempts to reduce the risk of coronary heart disease through lifestyle changes, such as reducing smoking, improving diet and increasing exercise. Standard 2 focuses on identifying those who are at high risk and ensuring that an appropriate treatment plan is in place. Standard 3 proposes that patients with acute coronary heart disease should receive high quality care. Standard 4 involves identifying and treating patients with heart failure. Standard 5 provides guidelines for identifying and treating atrial fibrillation.
Mae’r fframwaith gwasanaeth cenedlaethol ar gyfer clefyd coronaidd y galon yn amlinellu pum safon glir a chamau gweithredu ymarferol y mae’n rhaid eu cymryd er mwyn gweithredu’r safonau hynny. Mae safon 1 yn ceisio lleihau’r risg o glefyd coronaidd y galon drwy gyfrwng newidiadau mewn ffordd o fyw, megis lleihau ysmygu, gwella deiet a chynyddu ymarfer corff. Mae safon 2 yn canolbwyntio ar nodi’r rheini sydd yn wynebu risg uchel a sicrhau bod cynllun triniaeth addas yn ei le. Mae safon 3 yn cynnig y dylai cleifion â chlefyd coronaidd y galon aciwt dderbyn gofal o’r radd flaenaf. Mae safon 4 yn ymwneud â nodi a thrin cleifion gyda phall ar y galon. Mae safon 5 yn darparu arweiniad ar gyfer adnabod a thrin ffibriliad atrïaidd.
To deliver this plan, we need a well-trained workforce. I recognise that a limitless supply of appropriately qualified staff is not available and that there is a significant ‘lead-in’ time between recognising staff needs and getting newly qualified staff through the education and training process, but we have started to address that. Through the collection of vacancy data, we are identifying areas of staff shortages and taking action to fill gaps in the short-term, by developing return to practice initiatives for nursing and other professional groups. All shortage professions and all employers are putting in place recruitment and retention strategies and are being required to develop flexible working practices. We are also co-ordinating NHS Wales stands at career events to raise the profile of the NHS as an employer and NHS careers literature focused on Wales is being developed.
Er mwyn cyflwyno’r cynllun hwn, mae angen gweithlu wedi’i hyfforddi’n effeithiol arnom. Cydnabyddaf nad oes cyflenwad diddiwedd o staff sydd â chymwysterau priodol ar gael gennym a bod cyfnod ‘cyflwyno’ sylweddol rhwng adnabod anghenion staff a chael staff cymwys newydd drwy’r broses addysg a hyfforddi, ond yr ydym wedi dechrau mynd i’r afael â hynny. Drwy gasglu data ar swyddi gwag yr ydym yn nodi’r meysydd o brinder staff ac yn gweithredu er mwyn llenwi bylchau yn y byrdymor, drwy ddychwelyd at fentrau ymarfer ar gyfer grwpiau nyrsio a grwpiau proffesiynol eraill. Mae pob proffesiwn a chyflogwr sydd â phrinder staff yn gweithredu strategaethau recriwtio a chadw staff ac mae angen iddynt ddatblygu arferion gweithio hyblyg. Yr ydym hefyd yn cydgysylltu stondinau NHS Cymru mewn ffeiriau gyrfaoedd er mwyn codi proffil yr NHS fel cyflogwr ac mae llenyddiaeth ynglŷn â gyrfa yn yr NHS yng Nghymru yn cael ei datblygu.
Earlier this year, I launched the inequalities in health fund as one of the steps that we are taking to address the clear inequalities in health that exist between communities across Wales. The purpose of the fund is to support new local action that tackles inequalities of health or the factors that cause it, including inequities in access to services. Coronary heart disease is identified as the first priority for the health inequalities fund. Organisations in the NHS, in local government and the voluntary sector were invited to tell us what they could do locally for disadvantaged groups and for people in disadvantaged communities. The response has been encouraging in terms of the number of proposals received—over 100—and their quality. It demonstrates the commitment that exists throughout Wales to tackle inequalities in health, in partnership with others. I am pleased to announce today that the fund will support a total of 54 projects across Wales in its first year. The level of interest in the fund meant that selecting the project from so many good ones was a difficult task. I am pleased that we have been able to support considerably more than our original target of 20 to 30 projects. A wide range of new action will take place as a result of the fund. This will include action to reduce people’s risks of developing coronary heart disease through community action on nutrition, healthy eating and exercise for example. It will also include action that will identify and help people who are at high risk of developing coronary heart disease and those who already have heart disease. For example, some projects will help people with diabetes.
Yn gynharach eleni, lansiais y gronfa anghyfartaleddau iechyd fel un o’r camau yr ydym yn eu cymryd i fynd i’r afael â’r anghyfartaleddau amlwg mewn iechyd sydd yn bodoli rhwng cymunedau ledled Cymru. Diben y gronfa yw cefnogi camau gweithredu lleol newydd sydd yn mynd i’r afael ag anghyfartaleddau iechyd neu’r ffactorau sydd yn ei achosi, gan gynnwys anghyfartaleddau o ran mynediad i wasanaethau. Nodir clefyd coronaidd y galon fel y flaenoriaeth gyntaf ar gyfer y gronfa anghyfartaleddau iechyd. Gwahoddwyd sefydliadau yn yr NHS, llywodraeth leol a’r sector gwirfoddol i ddweud wrthym beth y gallent ei wneud yn lleol ar gyfer pobl mewn cymunedau difreintiedig. Bu’r ymateb yn galonogol o ran nifer y cynigion a dderbyniwyd—dros 100—a’u hansawdd. Dengys yr ymrwymiad sydd yn bodoli ledled Cymru i fynd i’r afael ag anghyfartaleddau mewn iechyd, mewn partneriaeth gydag eraill. Yr wyf yn falch i gyhoeddi heddiw y bydd y gronfa yn cefnogi cyfanswm o 54 o brosiectau ledled Cymru yn ei blwyddyn gyntaf. Yr oedd y lefel o ddiddordeb yn y gronfa yn golygu bod dethol y prosiect o blith cynifer o brosiectau da yn dasg anodd. Yr wyf yn falch y gallwn gefnogi llawer mwy na’n targed gwreiddiol o 20 i 30 o brosiectau. Bydd amrywiaeth eang o gamau gweithredu yn cael eu cymryd o ganlyniad i’r gronfa. Bydd hyn yn cynnwys camau gweithredu newydd i leihau risg pobl o ddatblygu clefyd coronaidd y galon drwy gyfrwng gweithredu yn y gymuned o ran maeth, bwyta’n iach ac ymarfer corff er enghraifft. Bydd hefyd yn cynnwys camau gweithredu i adnabod a helpu pobl sydd â risg uchel o ddatblygu clefyd coronaidd y galon a’r rheini sydd â chlefyd y galon eisoes. Er enghraifft, bydd rhai prosiectau yn helpu pobl gyda chlefyd y siwgwr.
The fund will support projects north to south and east to west. In Wrexham for example, a project will help a community of travellers to improve their health. In Cardiff and Newport, projects will help people from black and ethnic minorities. Many projects across the south Wales Valleys will address the specific health problems of those areas, as will projects across north Wales. In Carmarthenshire, one of the projects will provide a rapid access clinic for people with chest pain, while further west, community projects will take place in Pembrokeshire and Ceredigion. Projects will involve a wide range of organisations working in partnership, with primary and community care teams playing a key role. The projects will not only make an important contribution to the implementation of the national service framework, but will also help to develop the health component of Communities First as part of our integrated approach to policies and programmes.
Bydd y gronfa yn cynorthwyo prosiectau o’r gogledd i’r de ac o’r dwyrain i’r gorllewin. Yn Wrecsam, er enghraifft, bydd prosiect yn cynorthwyo cymuned o deithwyr i wella eu hiechyd. Yng Nghaerdydd a Chasnewydd, bydd prosiectau yn helpu pobl o leiafrifoedd du ac ethnig. Bydd nifer o brosiectau ar draws Cymoedd de Cymru yn mynd i’r afael â phroblemau iechyd penodol yr ardaloedd hynny, yn debyg i brosiectau ar draws gogledd Cymru. Yn Sir Gaerfyrddin, bydd un o’r prosiectau yn darparu clinig mynediad cyflym i bobl â phoen yn y frest, ac ymhellach i’r gorllewin, bydd prosiectau cymunedol ar waith yn Sir Benfro a Cheredigion. Bydd prosiectau yn cynnwys amrywiaeth eang o sefydliadau yn cydweithio mewn partneriaeth, a bydd timau gofal sylfaenol a chymunedol yn chwarae rôl allweddol. Nid cyfraniad pwysig i weithredu’r fframwaith gwasanaeth cenedlaethol yn unig fydd y prosiectau hyn, ond byddant hefyd o gymorth i ddatblygu’r elfen iechyd yn Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf fel rhan o’n hymagwedd integredig i bolisïau a rhaglenni.
In conclusion, staff in the NHS are key to delivering these services for patients and they are at the heart of ensuring that we can deliver this challenging programme. Primary care will play a key role as general practitioners can identify signs of the condition and manage it in the community afterwards. We as individuals, and as part of the wider community, have a vital role to play in improving health and promoting healthier lifestyles. We have worked hard with our partners to develop an action plan that can be implemented across Wales. It is already being implemented in a huge and impressive variety of ways. As I said at the outset, this is a process and not an event. It is sustainable, long-term action. We must all continue to work together to ensure better prospects and longer, healthier lives for the people of Wales.
I gloi, mae staff yn yr NHS yn allweddol wrth ddarparu’r gwasanaethau hyn ar gyfer cleifion ac maent wrth wraidd y gwaith o sicrhau y gallwn wireddu’r rhaglen heriol hon. Bydd gofal sylfaenol yn chwarae rôl allweddol fel y gall meddygon teulu ganfod arwyddion o’r cyflwr a’i reoli yn y gymuned wedi hynny. Mae gennym ni fel unigolion, ac fel rhan o’r gymuned ehangach, rôl hanfodol i’w chwarae wrth wella iechyd a hybu ffyrdd mwy iach o fyw. Yr ydym wedi gweithio’n galed gyda’n partneriaid i ddatblygu cynllun gweithredu y gellir ei gyflawni ar draws Cymru. Mae eisoes ar waith mewn amrywiaeth sylweddol a thrawiadol o ffyrdd. Fel y dywedais ar y dechrau, proses yw hon ac nid digwyddiad. Mae’n waith cynaliadwy, hirdymor. Rhaid i bob un ohonom barhau i gydweithio i sicrhau gwell gobeithion i bobl Cymru, a bywydau hwy ac iachach.
Datganaf fuddiant fel meddyg teulu. Croesawaf y datganiad hwn ar fframwaith ar gyfer clefyd y galon. Mae hwn yn brosiect gwerthfawr a chlodwiw o gofio baich clefyd y galon yng Nghymru. Wedi’r cwbl, mae 19 y cant yn fwy o farwolaethau yng Nghymru o ganlyniad i glefyd y galon nag yn Lloegr. A yw’r Gweinidog yn cytuno bod her sylweddol yn wynebu’r gwasanaeth iechyd yng Nghymru, o gofio ei fod wedi cyflawni llai o lawdriniaethau’r galon na gweddill Prydain? A yw’r Gweinidog hefyd yn cytuno bod angen adnoddau sylweddol i wireddu argymhellion y fframwaith hwn? A yw’n cytuno bod angen inni fod yn llawer mwy ymosodol wrth hybu iechyd? Mae’n rhaid inni fynd â’r neges i’n cymunedau, fel y mae Dr John Cockroft yn ei wneud, a mynd i siopau Tesco a neuaddau cymunedol. Mae dyletswydd ar bawb i wneud hyn, gwleidyddion a gweithwyr y gwasanaeth iechyd fel ei gilydd.
I declare an interest as a GP. I welcome this statement on a heart disease framework. This is a valuable and commendable project, bearing in mind the burden of heart disease in Wales. After all, there are 19 per cent more deaths in Wales as a result of heart disease than in England. Does the Minister agree that the health service in Wales faces a significant challenge, bearing in mind that it has performed fewer heart operations than the rest of Britain? Does the Minister also agree that substantial resources are required to realise the recommendations of this framework? Does she agree that we need to be far more assertive in promoting health? We must take the message into our communities, as Dr John Cockroft does, and go to Tesco and community halls. Everyone has a duty to do this, politicians and health service workers alike.
Mae argyfwng arbennig yn wynebu meddygaeth deuluol, o gofio’r bleidlais y mis diwethaf ymhlith meddygon teulu. A wnaiff y Gweinidog gydnabod yr angen dybryd am adnoddau ariannol digonol ar gyfer cyffuriau ychwanegol, ac ar gyfer nyrsys a staff ychwanegol yn ein meddygfeydd fel bo’r holl wybodaeth angenrheidiol yn cael ei chofnodi? A wnaiff hi gydnabod yr angen brys am adnoddau ychwanegol i alluogi gofal sylfaenol i ddygymod â’r her sylweddol a gynigir yn y fframwaith hwn?
General practice faces a particular crisis, bearing in mind last month’s vote among GPs. Will the Minister acknowledge the dire need for sufficient financial resources for extra drugs, and for additional nurses and staff in our practices so that all the necessary information can be recorded? Will she acknowledge the urgent need for extra resources to enable primary care to cope with the substantial challenge posed by this framework?
This is a huge challenge in terms of the burden of ill-health in Wales. I welcome your comments about the need to promote good health. In Wales, we are approaching this by starting with prevention and not simply considering the treatment. We cover prevention right through to rehabilitation, because we know that our partners in local government can assist us in that process with the provision of leisure centres, enabling us to promote a return to good health for people with heart disease.
Mae hon yn her enfawr o ran y baich afiechyd yng Nghymru. Croesawaf eich sylwadau am yr angen i hybu iechyd da. Yng Nghymru, yr ydym yn mynd i’r afael â hyn drwy ddechrau gyda’r gwaith atal yn hytrach nag ystyried y driniaeth yn unig. Yr ydym yn cwmpasu atal hyd at adferiad, oherwydd gwyddom fod ein partneriaid mewn llywodraeth leol yn gallu ein cynorthwyo o ran hynny, drwy ddarparu canolfannau hamdden, gan ein galluogi i hwyluso’r broses o wella o glefyd y galon.
It is a substantial challenge in Wales. Statistics show that heart disease is the biggest killer in Wales and we must turn this situation around. That is why this must be a long-term, sustainable campaign and strategy. It must use the resources that we identified in the Health and Social Services Committee. Tackling heart disease is a major priority. We allocated £6 million to health authorities to tackle heart disease in this financial year. I have already announced £2 million this year to ensure that people do not wait more than 12 months for heart operations and I have allocated £3 million for capital equipment and money towards developing clinical networks.
Mae’n her sylweddol yng Nghymru. Dengys yr ystadegau mai clefyd y galon sydd yn lladd y mwyaf o bobl yng Nghymru, a rhaid inni newid hynny. Dyna pam mae’n rhaid i hyn fod yn ymgyrch a strategaeth hirdymor, gynaliadwy. Rhaid iddo ddefnyddio’r adnoddau a nodwyd gennym yn y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol. Mae mynd i’r afael â chlefyd y galon yn un o’r prif flaenoriaethau. Dyranasom £6 miliwn i’r awdurdodau iechyd er mwyn mynd i’r afael â chlefyd y galon yn y flwyddyn ariannol hon. Cyhoeddais eisoes £2 filiwn eleni i sicrhau nad yw pobl yn aros mwy na 12 mis am lawdriniaethau ar y galon a dyrannais £3 miliwn ar gyfer offer ac arian cyfalaf tuag at ddatblygu rhwydweithiau clinigol.
The points about primary care have been well made in our discussions today. It was important that we had a full consultation on implementing this radical new strategy for Wales, because it places much responsibility on primary care.
Gwnaethpwyd pwyntiau da ynglŷn â gofal sylfaenol yn ein trafodaethau heddiw. Yr oedd yn bwysig inni gynnal ymgynghoriad llawn ar weithredu’r strategaeth radical newydd hon ar gyfer Cymru, gan ei bod yn gosod cymaint o gyfrifoldeb ar ofal sylfaenol.
We heard about what was achieved in Ynys Môn. They already track all their population and have identified that 4 per cent need treatment and a patient’s plan. Of course, this will not happen overnight and it must fit in with the outcome of our investment in more staff, retention of staff and enabling primary care, so that people feel that the plan is backed by the Assembly and this administration, which it is. I invested £3.1 million in primary care in April. That should start to lift morale as well as improving staffing levels in primary care. The 9.1 per cent uplift for drugs is important, because that is a key part of the strategy.
Clywsom am yr hyn a gyflawnwyd yn Ynys Môn. Maent eisoes yn dilyn trywydd eu holl boblogaeth a nodasant fod angen triniaeth a chynllun claf ar 4 y cant ohoni. Wrth gwrs, ni fydd hyn yn digwydd dros nos a bydd rhaid iddo gyd-fynd â chanlyniad ein buddsoddiad mewn mwy o staff, cadw staff a hwyluso gofal sylfaenol, fel bod pobl yn teimlo bod y cynllun yn derbyn cefnogaeth y Cynulliad a’r weinyddiaeth hon, sydd yn wir. Buddsoddais £3.1 miliwn mewn gofal sylfaenol ym mis Ebrill. Dylai hynny ddechrau codi morâl yn ogystal â gwella lefelau staffio gofal sylfaenol. Mae’r 9.1 y cant o gynnydd ar gyfer cyffuriau yn bwysig, gan fod hynny yn rhan allweddol o’r strategaeth.
I welcome your twin track of prevention and cure. We know that around 7,000 people die in Wales every year from smoking-related diseases. How many die from coronary heart disease rather than lung cancer? Do you accept that the general public and employees in restaurants, theatres and other public places are put at unnecessary risk as a result of the well-documented effects of cigarette smoke? Would you join me in encouraging employees who suffer heart disease or other ill-health, as a result of a failure by their employers, to take legal action against those employers?
Croesawaf eich agwedd ddeublyg o atal a darparu triniaeth. Gwyddom fod tua 7,000 o bobl yn marw yng Nghymru bob blwyddyn yn sgîl clefydau yn gysylltiedig ag ysmygu. Faint o bobl sydd yn marw o glefyd coronaidd y galon yn hytrach na chanser yr ysgyfaint? A dderbyniwch fod y cyhoedd a chyflogeion mewn bwytai, theatrau a mannau cyhoeddus eraill mewn perygl diangen o ganlyniad i effeithiau hysbys mwg sigarennau? A ymunwch â mi i annog mwy o gyflogeion sydd yn dioddef o glefyd y galon neu afiechyd arall, o ganlyniad i fethiant gan eu cyflogwyr, i ddwyn achos cyfreithiol yn erbyn y cyflogwyr hynny?
Prevention is a key part of this strategy. I have already identified that one in five adults in Wales is being treated for heart disease; a high percentage. In 1998 there were 7,000 heart disease related deaths in Wales. Higher figures pertaining to coronary heart disease have been mentioned. These figures are clearly relevant to our action against tobacco smoking. We are putting £2 million into smoking cessation projects and initiatives, which commence by working in schools and with young people. We are working with employers and considering how to tackle smoking in the workplace and public places. Through our tobacco initiative campaign we seek public as well as corporate recognition of the need to restrain smoking and tobacco use. That has to come through working in partnership as well as looking at the legal process for prevention.
Mae atal yn rhan allweddol o’r strategaeth hon. Yr wyf eisoes wedi nodi bod un o bob pum oedolyn yng Nghymru yn derbyn triniaeth ar gyfer clefyd y galon, sydd yn ganran uchel. Yn 1998 yr oedd 7,000 o farwolaethau yn gysylltiedig â chlefyd y galon yng Nghymru. Crybwyllwyd ffigurau uwch yn ymwneud â chlefyd y galon. Mae’n amlwg bod y ffigurau hynny yn berthnasol i’n gweithredu yn erbyn ysmygu tybaco. Yr ydym yn rhoi £2 miliwn i brosiectau a mentrau i roi’r gorau i ysmygu, sydd yn dechrau drwy weithio mewn ysgolion a chyda phobl ifanc. Yr ydym yn cydweithio â chyflogwyr ac yn ystyried sut i fynd i’r afael ag ysmygu yn y gweithle ac mewn mannau cyhoeddus. Drwy gyfrwng ein cynllun tybaco yr ydym yn ceisio cydnabyddiaeth gyhoeddus yn ogystal â chorfforaethol o’r angen i beidio ag ysmygu a defnyddio tybaco. Rhaid i hynny gael ei wireddu drwy weithio mewn partneriaeth yn ogystal ag edrych ar y prosesau cyfreithiol ar gyfer atal.
In ‘Improving Health in Wales’, published in January, you set a maximum waiting time for heart surgery of three months by 2005. In the National Service Framework, published today, that target has been reduced to three months by 2007. Why has the original ambitious target been dumped after only a few months? Why have you not outlined staffing targets in your statement today? Last year, the NHS plan in England committed the service there to a 47 per cent increase in the number of cardiologists. We still have no idea of the number of extra doctors we will have to deliver this important service and we need to know what will happen in Wales. Given the diminished targets that you have now set for cardiac surgery, patients will want to know when the clock starts: at the GP’s surgery where all coronary heart disease is to be identified; or when patients eventually see a consultant? We all know the length of current waiting lists to see a consultant.
Yn ‘Gwella Iechyd yng Nghymru’, a gyhoeddwyd fis Ionawr, pennwyd uchafswm o dri mis o amser aros ar gyfer llawdriniaeth ar y galon erbyn 2005. Yn y Fframwaith Gwasanaeth Cenedlaethol, a gyhoeddwyd heddiw, lleihawyd y targed hwnnw i dri mis erbyn 2007. Pam y cafodd y targed uchelgeisiol gwreiddiol ei roi o’r neilltu ar ôl ychydig fisoedd yn unig? Pam nad ydych wedi amlinellu targedau staffio yn eich datganiad heddiw? Y llynedd, yr oedd cynllun yr NHS i Loegr yn ymrwymo’r gwasanaeth i gynnydd o 47 y cant yn nifer y cardiolegwyr. Nid oes syniad gennym o hyd faint o feddygon ychwanegol fydd eu hangen arnom er mwyn gweithredu’r gwasanaeth pwysig hwn, ac mae angen inni wybod beth fydd yn digwydd yng Nghymru. O ystyried y gostyngiad yn y targedau yr ydych bellach wedi’u pennu ar gyfer llawdriniaethau ar y galon, bydd cleifion yn dymuno gwybod pryd bydd y cloc yn dechrau: ym mhractis y meddyg teulu lle y canfyddir pob achos o glefyd y galon; neu pan fydd cleifion yn gweld ymgynghorydd yn y pen draw? Yr ydym oll yn ymwybodol o hyd y rhestrau aros i weld ymgynghorydd.
I welcome some aspects of the framework. The identification of all disease is a noble aim. The primary care sector will be key in achieving that and in promoting the message of heart disease prevention. That is to be greatly welcomed. I support the most vigorous measures against smoking. It is about time we called for an end to indoor smoking in public places. We need a ban on advertising and we need to fully fund cessation programmes.
Croesawaf rai agweddau ar y fframwaith. Mae nodi pob clefyd yn nod aruchel. Bydd y sector gofal sylfaenol yn allweddol wrth gyflawni hynny ac wrth hyrwyddo’r neges o atal clefyd y galon. Dylid croesawu hynny’n fawr. Cefnogaf y mesurau llymaf yn erbyn ysmygu. Mae’n hen bryd inni alw am atal ysmygu mewn mannau cyhoeddus sydd dan do. Mae angen inni wahardd hysbysebu ac mae angen inni ariannu rhaglenni rhoi’r gorau i ysmygu yn llawn.
I am glad that you came round to a positive endorsement of the National Service Framework. That is what I want from the Assembly: a strong endorsement that we are going to make progress. I hope that we are all signed up to what will be a long-term strategy. As you know from our full Committee discussion, we went out to consultation regarding targets. We must back targets with appropriate resources and plans. As the result of consultation we ensured that the service felt it could meet the targets. That is the whole purpose of targets in relation to waiting times; to ensure that we are rigorous and that we create expectations for patients that they will not have to wait in terms of clinical priorities such as heart disease. We must ensure that we can deliver on those targets. They provide a framework for delivery. The key point is that we must ensure we have the resources and staffing.
Yr wyf yn falch ichi roi cefnogaeth gadarnhaol i’r Fframwaith Gwasanaeth Cenedlaethol yn y pen draw. Dyna beth yr wyf am ei weld gan y Cynulliad: cefnogaeth gadarn inni wneud cynnydd. Gobeithiaf ein bod i gyd yn ymrwymo i’r hyn a fydd yn strategaeth hirdymor. Fel y gwyddoch ar sail ein trafodaeth lawn yn y Pwyllgor, cynaliasom ymgynghoriad ar dargedau. Rhaid inni ategu’r targedau gyda’r adnoddau a’r cynlluniau priodol. O ganlyniad i ymgynghoriad sicrhawyd bod y gwasanaeth o’r farn y gallai fodloni’r targedau. Dyna holl ddiben targedau o ran amseroedd aros; sicrhau ein bod yn drwyadl ac yn creu’r disgwyliad na fydd yn rhaid i gleifion aros o ran blaenoriaethau clinigol megis clefyd y galon. Rhaid inni sicrhau y gallwn gyflawni’r targedau hynny. Maent yn darparu fframwaith ar gyfer gweithredu. Y pwynt allweddol yw bod yn rhaid inni sicrhau bod yr adnoddau a’r staff gennym.
As you know, David, we have instigated workforce planning, to which your government never subscribed. Workforce planning will be key to ensuring that we have the staff on board. I have already addressed that issue in my statement, as well as the increase in training of doctors and nurses. We are increasing training for nurses by 20 per cent and doubling our medical education input.
Fel y gwyddoch, David, yr ydym wedi dechrau cynllunio’r gweithlu, sef rhywbeth na chefnogodd eich llywodraeth erioed. Bydd cynllunio’r gweithlu yn allweddol i sicrhau cefnogaeth y staff. Yr wyf eisoes wedi ymdrin â’r pwnc hwnnw yn fy natganiad, yn ogystal â’r cynnydd mewn hyfforddi meddygon a nyrsys. Yr ydym yn cynyddu hyfforddiant ar gyfer nyrsys 20 y cant ac yn dyblu ein mewnbwn i addysg feddygol.
I wish to reinforce the smoking theme to which a number of people have referred, and David Melding’s specific reference to a ‘no smoking in public places’ policy. Will you consider a public education campaign, Jane? That would move us towards some of the bold and imaginative policies in other parts of the world. It would be a step towards a ‘no smoking in public places’ policy, which would include places such as the Millennium Stadium, where large numbers of people congregate.
Dymunaf ategu’r thema ysmygu y cyfeiriodd nifer o bobl ati, a chyfeiriad penodol David Melding at bolisi ‘dim ysmygu mewn mannau cyhoeddus’. A wnewch chi ystyried ymgyrch addysg gyhoeddus, Jane? Byddai hynny’n ein harwain tuag at rai o bolisïau beiddgar a dychmygus rhannau eraill o’r byd. Byddai’n gam tuag at bolisi ‘dim ysmygu mewn mannau cyhoeddus’, a fyddai’n cynnwys mannau megis Stadiwm y Mileniwm, lle mae niferoedd fawr o bobl yn ymgasglu.
We know that the basic public health education messages are a low-fat, high-fibre diet, no smoking, adequate exercise and so on, yet the most deprived communities are not as receptive to those messages as they should be. Therefore, will you build on health inequalities funding to ensure that disadvantaged communities are properly resourced and that capacity is properly built so that they will be more receptive to those messages?
Gwyddom fod y negeseuon iechyd cyhoeddus sylfaenol yn cynnwys deiet isel mewn braster, uchel mewn ffeibr, dim ysmygu, digon o ymarfer corff ac ati, ond eto nid yw’r cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig mor barod i dderbyn y negeseuon hynny ag y dylent fod. Felly, a wnewch chi adeiladu ar y gronfa anghyfartaleddau iechyd i sicrhau bod gan gymunedau difreintiedig adnoddau digonol a bod y capasiti’n cael ei sefydlu’n iawn fel y byddant yn fwy parod i dderbyn y negeseuon hynny?
We should seriously consider developing a ‘no smoking in public places’ policy, and whether the Assembly could break new ground in this direction. However, as you know, in terms of persuading and helping people to stop smoking, we must develop a much wider strategy. Our smoking helpline has been effective, and our ‘quit and win’ campaign, which assisted 3,000 people to give up smoking this year in Wales, was important. All those people had support to give up smoking. It is not just a matter of quitting, but of winning by not taking up smoking again. We do not pay enough attention to wider community initiatives. Many of those initiatives are available in all communities, but we need to ensure that they are presented in the context of hope and prosperity. That is why it is so important that we are linking this to Communities First, and that the projects that we support as part of the health inequalities fund are projects that local people know will work in their communities, tackling heart disease and raising awareness.
Dylem ystyried polisi ‘dim ysmygu mewn mannau cyhoeddus’ o ddifrif, ac ystyried a allai’r Cynulliad dorri tir newydd yn y maes hwn. Fodd bynnag, fel y gwyddoch, o ran darbwyllo pobl i roi’r gorau i ysmygu, rhaid inni ddatblygu strategaeth llawer ehangach. Bu ein llinell gymorth ysmygu yn effeithiol, ac yr oedd ein hymgyrch ‘gad hi, mi gei di’, a gynorthwyodd 3,000 o bobl i roi’r gorau i ysmygu eleni yng Nghymru, yn bwysig. Cafodd yr holl bobl hynny gefnogaeth i roi’r gorau i ysmygu. Nid dim ond mater o roi’r gorau iddi yw hi, ond o fod ar eich ennill drwy beidio â dechrau ysmygu eto. Ni thalwn ddigon o sylw i fentrau cymunedol ehangach. Mae nifer o’r mentrau hynny ar gael ym mhob cymuned, ond mae angen inni sicrhau y cânt eu cyflwyno yng nghyd-destun gobaith a llewyrch. Dyna pam mae hi mor bwysig inni gysylltu hyn â Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf, a bod y prosiectau a gefnogwn fel rhan o’r gronfa anghyfartaleddau iechyd yn brosiectau y gall pobl leol fod yn sicr y byddant yn llwyddo yn eu cymunedau i fynd i’r afael â chlefyd y galon a chodi ymwybyddiaeth.
I declare an interest as a pharmacist. I also welcome this framework. It would be excellent if we could achieve all that it contains and stop the carnage that heart disease inflicts on our communities. My main concern, as Dai has said, is that unless we have a significant increase in resources, this positive and much needed action plan will just be a wishlist. The Minister will no doubt be aware that at the Royal Glamorgan Hospital, urgent cardiac cases have to wait 11 months for an angiogram, while those classified as routine cases have to wait two years. These patients cannot understand how the local NHS trust turned down a donation of £750,000 that would have given the Royal Glamorgan Hospital a catheterisation laboratory like those that exist in other district general hospitals, such as the Royal Gwent Hospital and the Princess of Wales Hospital. That catheterisation laboratory would have provided a valuable local service that is desperately needed in an area that suffers so much from heart disease. What resources are you planning to put into cardiac services in the south Wales Valleys, and will you reconsider your policy of concentrating catheterisation facilities in the tertiary sector?
Datganaf fuddiant fel fferyllydd. Croesawaf innau y fframwaith hwn hefyd. Byddai’n wych pe gallwn wireddu’r holl bethau sydd ynddo a rhoi diwedd ar y gyflafan a achosir gan glefyd y galon yn ein cymunedau. Fy mhrif bryder, fel y dywedodd Dai, yw mai rhestr o ddymuniadau yn unig fydd y cynllun gweithredu cadarnhaol hwn y mae ei angen yn ddirfawr, oni chawn gynnydd sylweddol mewn adnoddau. Bydd y Gweinidog, mae’n siŵr, yn ymwybodol bod achosion cardiaidd brys yn gorfod aros 11 mis am angiogram yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg, tra bod y rhai a labelir fel achosion arferol yn gorfod aros am ddwy flynedd. Ni all y cleifion hyn ddeall sut y gallai’r ymddiriedolaeth NHS leol wrthod rhodd o £750,000 a fyddai wedi rhoi labordy cathetreiddio i Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg, fel y rhai a geir mewn ysbytai cyffredinol mewn ardaloedd eraill, megis Ysbyty Brenhinol Gwent ac Ysbyty Tywysoges Cymru. Byddai’r labordy cathetreiddio hwnnw wedi darparu gwasanaeth lleol gwerthfawr y mae galw mawr amdano mewn ardal sydd yn dioddef cymaint o glefyd y galon. Pa adnoddau y bwriadwch eu rhoi i’r gwasanaethau cardiaidd yng Nghymoedd de Cymru, ac a ailystyriwch eich polisi o ganoli cyfleusterau cathetreiddio yn y sector trydyddol?
Secondly, I raise the issue of ambulance response times. Are you satisfied with the present rate of response within eight minutes for emergency category A cases, which stands at 50 per cent for the whole of Wales? Are you also aware that some areas, such as Rhondda Cynon Taff, suffer from a far lower response rate? The average response rate for Rhondda Cynon Taff for 2000-01 is a mere 34 per cent, dropping to as low as 28 per cent in summer. The severity of this situation is further compounded when one takes into account the fact that, as the framework states, every minute of delay in giving treatment after three hours of a heart attack results in a loss, on average, of 11 days of a person’s life. Bearing in mind that the Assembly’s target is that 75 per cent of emergency cases should be responded to within—
Yn ail, codaf fater amseroedd ymateb ambiwlans. A ydych yn fodlon ar y gyfradd ymateb bresennol o wyth munud ar gyfer achosion brys categori A, a saif ar 50 y cant ar gyfer Cymru gyfan? A ydych hefyd yn ymwybodol bod rhai ardaloedd, megis Rhondda Cynon Taf, yn dioddef cyfradd ymateb llawer is? Dim ond 34 y cant yw’r gyfradd ymateb ar gyfartaledd yn Rhondda Cynon Taf ar gyfer 2000-01, gan ostwng mor isel â 28 y cant yn yr haf. Mae difrifoldeb y sefyllfa hon yn cael ei dwysáu ymhellach gan y ffaith, fel y noda’r fframwaith, fod pob munud o oedi wrth roi triniaeth ar ôl tair awr i drawiad ar y galon yn golygu colli 11 diwrnod o fywyd rhywun, ar gyfartaledd. Gan gofio mai targed y Cynulliad yw bod 75 y cant o achosion brys yn derbyn ymateb o fewn—
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 32
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh and English p. 32
Trefn. A wnewch chi ofyn cwestiwn os gwelwch yn dda?
in Welsh Order. Will you please ask a question?
I have already had statements from the main speakers of each party group.
yn Saesneg Cefais ddatganiadau gan brif siaradwyr pob plaid eisoes.
Given that this framework sets a target of 90 per cent, how much more resources will you commit to enable the ambulance service to reach it? For reference, the estimated extra resources needed in Rhondda Cynon Taff for it to reach a target of 75 per cent is £1.25 million. How much more resources will you give?
O ystyried bod y fframwaith hwn yn gosod targed o 90 y cant, faint yn fwy o adnoddau a ymrwymwch er mwyn galluogi i’r gwasanaeth ambiwlans ei gyflawni? Er gwybodaeth, yr adnoddau ychwanegol yr amcangyfrifir sydd eu hangen yn Rhondda Cynon Taf er mwyn iddo gyrraedd targed o 75 y cant yw £1.25 miliwn. Faint yn fwy o adnoddau a roddwch?
You know the answer to the question about the proposed donation to set up a laboratory in the Royal Glamorgan Hospital. You also know that there is an issue about the provision of cardiac specialist services at a tertiary level, and that we have to develop services strategically. You know that those specialist services are provided at the University Hospital of Wales and at Nevill Hall hospital and in Swansea and other parts of Wales, particularly in relation to angioplasty and angiograms. It is important that we acknowledge community support in helping to improve our services, but we must do that in a way that will meet the clinical needs of the area. We are developing clinical networks in Wales to ensure that we improve access. The health inequalities fund is geared entirely to addressing health needs in those communities that not only have the highest risk of heart disease, but also inequities in access to services. That is what we are addressing through the health inequalities fund and I hope that we can build on that. However, we also need to recognise that issues such as response times for emergency services are critical. That is why the Assembly invested extra money directly in the ambulance service over the past year. That money will provide important equipment and new transport. We are also monitoring response rates carefully and ensuring that progress is made on meeting those important emergency requirements. It is important that we monitor that, particularly in those communities where there are health inequalities.
Gwyddoch yr ateb i’r cwestiwn ynglŷn â’r rhodd arfaethedig i sefydlu labordy yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg. Gwyddoch hefyd fod mater ynglŷn â darparu gwasanaethau cardiaidd arbenigol ar lefel drydyddol, a bod yn rhaid inni ddatblygu gwasanaethau yn strategol. Gwyddoch y darperir y gwasanaethau arbenigol hynny yn Ysbyty Athrofaol Cymru ac yn ysbyty Nevill Hall ac yn Abertawe a mannau eraill yng Nghymru, yn arbennig ynglŷn ag angioplasti ac angiogramau. Mae’n bwysig inni gydnabod cefnogaeth y gymuned wrth helpu i wella ein gwasanaethau, ond rhaid inni wneud hynny mewn ffordd fydd yn golygu y gallwn diwallu anghenion clinigol yr ardal. Yr ydym yn datblygu rhwydweithiau clinigol yng Nghymru i sicrhau ein bod yn gwella mynediad. Mae’r gronfa anghyfartaleddau iechyd wedi’i hanelu at fynd i’r afael ag anghenion iechyd y cymunedau hynny sydd â’r risg uchaf o glefyd y galon, ond anghyfartaleddau hefyd o ran mynediad i wasanaethau. Dyna beth yr ydym yn ymdrin ag ef drwy’r gronfa anghyfartaleddau iechyd a gobeithiaf y gallwn adeiladu ar hynny. Fodd bynnag, mae angen inni hefyd gydnabod bod materion megis amseroedd ymateb y gwasanaethau brys yn hanfodol. Dyna pam y buddsoddodd y Cynulliad arian ychwanegol yn uniongyrchol yn y gwasanaeth ambiwlans y flwyddyn ddiwethaf. Bydd yr arian hwnnw yn darparu offer pwysig a thrafnidiaeth newydd. Yr ydym hefyd yn monitro cyfraddau ymateb yn ofalus a sicrhau y gwneir cynnydd o ran diwallu’r anghenion brys hynny. Mae’n bwysig inni fonitro hynny, yn arbennig yn y cymunedau hynny lle mae anghyfartaleddau iechyd.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 33
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 33
I plead again for brief questions, including from the Chair of the Health and Social Services Committee.
Erfyniaf eto am gwestiynau byr, gan gynnwys oddi wrth Gadeirydd y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol.
I shall do my best. Jane, how do the investments you have already announced compare to the investment that the Specialised Health Services Commission for Wales’s report on cardiac services clearly stated was needed? That report highlighted the need for a great deal of investment to tackle coronary heart disease in this country. I wonder how far we have gone towards satisfying those recommendations from SHSCW. I am afraid that it is not far enough, particularly in terms of general practices. When you talk about investment in general practices, that investment is not ring-fenced just for coronary heart disease and general practices will also have to cope with the implementation of the mental health national service framework and a diabetes national service framework. Much pressure is being put upon GPs and we need to fund them if they are to play the role that they want to play and are capable of playing. However, they cannot do that without adequate funding.
Gwnaf fy ngorau. Jane, sut mae’r buddsoddiadau a gyhoeddasoch eisoes yn cymharu â’r buddsoddiad y nododd adroddiad Comisiwn Gwasanaethau Iechyd Arbenigol Cymru ar wasanaethau cardiaidd yn glir yr oedd ei angen? Tanlinellodd yr adroddiad hwnnw yr angen am lawer o fuddsoddiad i fynd i’r afael â chlefyd coronaidd y galon yn y wlad hon. Tybed pa mor bell yr aethom tuag at fodloni’r argymhellion hynny gan y Comisiwn. Ofnaf nad yw’n ddigon pell, yn enwedig o ran meddygaeth deuluol. Pan siaradwch am fuddsoddiad mewn meddygaeth deuluol, ni chaiff y buddsoddiad hwnnw ei neilltuo’n benodol at glefyd coronaidd y galon yn unig a bydd meddygaeth deuluol hefyd yn gorfod ymdopi â gweithredu fframwaith gwasanaeth cenedlaethol ar gyfer iechyd meddwl a fframwaith gwasanaeth cenedlaethol clefyd y siwgwr. Rhoddir llawer o bwysau ar feddygon teulu ac mae angen inni eu hariannu os ydynt am chwarae’r rôl y dymunant ei chwarae a’r rôl y gallant ei chwarae. Fodd bynnag, ni allant wneud hynny heb gyllid digonol.
When you talk about investments in drug budgets, again, that is not ring-fenced for coronary heart disease drugs. That investment needs to respond to all the challenges of the increasingly expensive and complex drug regimes on which patients are being placed. How will we reach our targets on prescribing clot-busting drugs without investment?
Pan siaradwch am fuddsoddiadau mewn cyllidebau cyffuriau, unwaith eto, ni chaiff hynny ei neilltuo’n benodol at gyffuriau clefyd coronaidd y galon. Mae angen i’r buddsoddiad hwnnw ymateb i holl heriau’r cynlluniau cyffuriau cynyddol ddrud a chymhleth ar gyfer cleifion. Sut y cyrhaeddwn ein targedau ar bresgripsiynu cyffuriau i gael gwared ar geuladau heb fuddsoddiad?
David Melding raised the question of cardiologists. How will we stop the drain of cardiologists from Wales to England? Media reports stated this morning that six out of the last seven cardiologists to be trained in Wales promptly moved over the border when they qualified. That leaves us with just one, despite the effort that we made to train those highly skilled individuals. We also need to address adequately issues of capacity in tertiary and secondary services in Swansea and Cardiff, so that those people who need heart operations can get them. However, we cannot do that at the expense of funding adequate rehabilitation services. It is pointless fixing people up and giving them the heart by-pass operations needed to save their lives in the short term, if they return to pursuing sedentary lives, bad diets and smoking. Such people need support in their communities when they leave hospital. Also, while we welcome the fact that 54 projects have been approved under the health inequalities fund, that, by your own admission, leaves approximately another 50 that have not been approved, including one in my own constituency, I believe. What will be the status of the bids for those projects now, Jane?
Cododd David Melding gwestiwn ynghylch cardiolegwyr. Sut y gwnawn ni atal y llif o gardiolegwyr o Gymru i Loegr? Nododd adroddiadau yn y wasg y bore yma fod chwech o’r saith cardiolegydd diwethaf i gael eu hyfforddi yng Nghymru wedi symud dros y ffin yn fuan ar ôl iddynt gymhwyso. Mae hynny’n golygu mai dim ond un sydd ar ôl gennym, er gwaetha’r ymdrech a wnaethom i hyfforddi’r unigolion tra medrus hynny. Mae angen inni hefyd fynd i’r afael yn briodol â materion capasiti mewn gwasanaethau trydyddol ac eilaidd yn Abertawe a Chaerdydd, fel y gall y bobl hynny sydd angen triniaethau ar y galon eu cael. Fodd bynnag, ni allwn wneud hynny ar draul ariannu gwasanaethau adfer digonol. Nid oes diben trin pobl a rhoi llawdriniaethau dargyfeiriol ar y galon iddynt sydd eu hangen i achub eu bywydau yn y byrdymor, os ydynt yn parhau i ddilyn bywydau eisteddog, deiet gwael ac yn ysmygu. Mae angen cymorth ar bobl o’r fath yn eu cymunedau ar ôl iddynt adael yr ysbyty. Hefyd, er ein bod yn croesawu’r ffaith fod 54 o brosiectau wedi’u cymeradwyo o dan y gronfa anghyfartaleddau iechyd, mae hynny, yn ôl eich cyfaddefiad eich hun, yn golygu bod tua 50 heb eu cymeradwyo, gan gynnwys un yn fy etholaeth i, fe gredaf. Beth fydd statws y ceisiadau am y prosiectau hynny yn awr, Jane?
Jane Hutt The Minister for Health and Social Services spoken in English p. 34
Jane Hutt Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 34
I have covered some of those points. The role of primary care is crucial and we have had extensive discussions with the general practicioners about the implementation of this plan. Resources must be backed by support.
Trafodais rai o’r pwyntiau hynny. Mae rôl gofal sylfaenol yn hanfodol a chawsom drafodaethau estynedig gyda’r meddygon teulu ynglŷn â gweithredu’r cynllun hwn. Rhaid i adnoddau gael eu hategu gan gymorth.
In terms of drugs, I have already mentioned the 9.1 per cent increase for prescribed drugs that will go into the budget, which we believe will cover the increased demand for drugs, including that arising from the implementation of the coronary heart disease national service framework. It takes into account the present trend among GPs who prescribe drugs such as statins and so on. However, there is an increase. As far as cardiologists are concerned—and this is a key point that has come out today—it is good that we have 21 cardiologists in training in Wales, who are also providing a service. We want to keep them in Wales; we do not want to lose them. The key point about this strategy is that it should give staff the confidence, the morale and the resources to encourage them to stay and to attract people to work in Wales. That means that we must examine how we work to ensure that rehabilitation is available. If you look at the projects that are coming through the health inequalities fund you will see that all of those issues are being addressed. That is why I would like to build on the health inequalities fund to facilitate some of the extra projects that were proposed.
O ran cyffuriau, crybwyllais eisoes y 9.1 y cant o gynnydd ar gyfer cyffuriau ar bresgripsiwn y bydd yn cyfrannu at y gyllideb, y credwn y bydd yn cwmpasu’r cynnydd yn y galw am gyffuriau, gan gynnwys y cynnydd hwnnw a gyfyd o weithredu fframwaith gwasanaeth cenedlaethol clefyd coronaidd y galon. Ystyria hefyd y duedd bresennol ymhlith meddygon teulu sydd yn rhoi cyffuriau megis statins ac ati ar bresgripsiwn. Fodd bynnag, cafwyd cynnydd. O ran cardiolegwyr—ac mae hyn yn bwynt allweddol a ddaeth i’r amlwg heddiw—mae’n dda bod gennym 21 o gardiolegwyr o dan hyfforddiant yng Nghymru, sydd hefyd yn darparu gwasanaeth. Yr ydym am eu cadw yng Nghymru; nid ydym am eu colli. Y pwynt allweddol ynglŷn â’r strategaeth hon yw y dylai roi’r hyder, y morâl a’r adnoddau i’r staff i’w hannog i aros yng Nghymru ac i ddenu pobl i weithio yng Nghymru. Golyga hynny fod yn rhaid inni archwilio sut y gweithiwn i sicrhau bod adferiad ar gael. Os edrychwch ar y prosiectau sydd yn deillio o’r gronfa anghyfartaleddau iechyd fe welwch yr ymdrinnir â’r holl faterion hynny. Dyna pam yr hoffwn adeiladu ar y gronfa anghyfartaleddau iechyd i hyrwyddo rhai o’r prosiectau ychwanegol a gynigiwyd.
I have four brief questions, Minister. First, will this new framework address the gaps—
Mae gennyf bedwar cwestiwn byr, Weinidog. Yn gyntaf, a fydd y fframwaith newydd hwn yn mynd i’r afael â’r bylchau—
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 35
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 35
Order. Four is not an appropriate number of questions at this stage of the statement.
Trefn. Nid yw pedwar yn nifer priodol o gwestiynau ar yr adeg hon yn y datganiad.
I can do it in very little time, I promise.
Gallaf eu gofyn mewn cyfnod byr o amser, yr wyf yn addo.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 35
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 35
Can you really?
A allwch wir?
I will try.
Fe geisiaf.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 35
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 35
Order. I must return to this issue of how we deal with statements. Clearly, it is not easy for all Members who want to ask questions to do so, if other Members insist on asking many questions, when the lead spokesperson for that party has had ample opportunity to ask those questions.
Trefn. Rhaid imi ddychwelyd at y mater hwn o sut yr ymdriniwn â datganiadau. Yn amlwg, nid yw’n hawdd i bob Aelod sydd yn dymuno holi cwestiynau wneud hynny, os yw Aelodau eraill yn mynnu gofyn llawer o gwestiynau, pan gafodd prif siaradwr y blaid honno ddigon o gyfle i ofyn y cwestiynau hynny.
You would not have noticed, had I not said anything.
Ni fuasech wedi sylwi, pe na bawn wedi dweud unrhyw beth.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 35
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 35
Yes, I would.
Byddwn.
Will the framework address the gaps in services in the north? Can you assure us that the framework will be adequately resourced in the long term? How does the framework fit into overall strategic planning for the NHS in Wales? Given that smoking is a major cause of coronary heart disease, do you share my disappointment that the Queen’s Speech contained no proposals for legislation to ban tobacco advertising and will you again make the strongest representations about this on the Assembly’s behalf?
A wnaiff y fframwaith fynd i’r afael â’r bylchau mewn gwasanaethau yn y gogledd? A allwch ein sicrhau y bydd y fframwaith yn derbyn adnoddau digonol yn yr hirdymor? Sut y mae’r fframwaith yn cydweddu â’r gwaith cynllunio strategol cyffredinol ar gyfer yr NHS yng Nghymru? O ystyried bod ysmygu yn un o brif achosion clefyd coronaidd y galon, a rannwch fy siom nad oedd Araith y Frenhines yn cynnwys unrhyw gynigion ar gyfer deddfwriaeth i wahardd hysbysebu tybaco ac a wnewch chi unwaith eto gyflwyno sylwadau cryf ynglŷn â hyn ar ran y Cynulliad?
The framework will address gaps in the north and across Wales. It will be a national service framework for the whole of Wales, driven by the National Assembly and myself to address inequities and improve access. I met yesterday with Alan Milburn and Susan Deakin and said that we look forward to the implementation of the legislation in this parliamentary term.
Bydd y fframwaith yn mynd i’r afael â bylchau yn y gogledd ac ar draws Cymru. Bydd yn fframwaith gwasanaeth cenedlaethol ar gyfer Cymru gyfan, wedi’i lywio gan y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol a minnau er mwyn mynd i’r afael ag annhegwch a gwella mynediad. Ddoe, cyfarfûm ag Alan Milburn a Susan Deakin a dweud ein bod yn edrych ymlaen at weithredu’r ddeddfwriaeth yn y tymor seneddol hwn.
You will be aware that the inverse care law was published 30 years ago. The Health and Social Services Committee will be honouring Dr Julian Tudor Hart tomorrow. One of his messages was that we needed planned and targeted healthcare initiatives to address issues of social inequality in heart disease. How will your programme address his points?
Byddwch yn ymwybodol y cyhoeddwyd y ddeddf gofal gwrthdro 30 mlynedd yn ôl. Bydd y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol yn anrhydeddu Dr Julian Tudor Hart yfory. Un o’i negeseuon oedd bod angen mentrau gofal iechyd wedi’u cynllunio a’u targedu arnom er mwyn mynd i’r afael ag anghyfartaledd cymdeithasol o ran clefyd y galon. Sut y bydd eich rhaglen yn mynd i’r afael â’i bwyntiau?
It is important that the Specialised Health Services Commission for Wales identified those inequities. For example, in Blaenau Gwent, which is Peter Law’s constituency, there are high levels of heart disease, and the research showed that there was less access to services. We must address that. The health inequalities fund is one way to do that. We have four projects coming through in Blaenau Gwent. Peter and other Assembly Members will be glad to hear that. In other communities where there are high levels of heart disease, such as Merthyr Tydfil, we must address the problem by getting resources and action into those areas. That will link to other actions, such as ensuring that we have the services in those communities. Our resource allocation consultations will bear on that.
Mae’n bwysig fod y Comisiwn Gwasanaethau Iechyd Arbenigol ar gyfer Cymru wedi nodi’r annhegwch hynny. Er enghraifft, ym Mlaenau Gwent, sef etholaeth Peter Law, ceir lefelau uchel o glefyd y galon, a dangosodd yr ymchwil fod llai o fynediad i wasanaethau yno. Rhaid inni fynd i’r afael â hynny. Y gronfa anghyfartaleddau iechyd yw un o’r ffyrdd i wneud hynny. Mae pedwar prosiect ar y gweill ym Mlaenau Gwent. Bydd Peter ac Aelodau eraill o’r Cynulliad yn falch i glywed hynny. Mewn cymunedau eraill lle y mae lefelau uchel o glefyd y galon, megis Merthyr Tudful, rhaid inni fynd i’r afael â’r broblem drwy sicrhau adnoddau a gweithredu yn yr ardaloedd hynny. Bydd hynny’n cysylltu â chamau gweithredu eraill megis sicrhau bod y gwasanaethau gennym yn y cymunedau hynny. Bydd ein hymgynghoriadau dyrannu adnoddau yn dylanwadu ar hynny.
Thank you for this excellent statement on this new service framework. I was delighted to hear about the scheme in Blaenau Gwent. It is a heart disease blackspot. It is suggested that life expectancy in Blaenau Gwent is five years less than in the neighbouring county of Powys, although that has nothing to do with the Liberal Democrats, I would like to point out. Will you support the future expansion of cardiac services at Nevill Hall District General Hospital? Will you also support the reintroduction of the two rapid response vehicles that the Welsh Ambulance Trust recently removed from Abergavenny and Aber-big ambulance stations in north Gwent? That move is counterproductive and works against this excellent initiative.
Diolch am y datganiad ardderchog hwn ar y fframwaith gwasanaeth newydd hwn. Yr oeddwn wrth fy modd i glywed am y cynllun ym Mlaenau Gwent. Mae’n ardal lle ceir llawer o achosion o glefyd y galon. Awgrymir bod hyd bywyd disgwyliedig ym Mlaenau Gwent bum mlynedd yn llai nag yn y sir nesaf ati, sef Powys, er yr hoffwn egluro nad oes gan hynny unrhyw beth i’w wneud â’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol. A wnewch chi gefnogi ymestyn gwasanaethau cardiaidd yn Ysbyty Dosbarth Cyffredinol Nevill Hall yn y dyfodol? A wnewch chi hefyd gefnogi ailgyflwyno’r ddau gerbyd ymateb cyflym y cafodd Ymddiriedolaeth Ambiwlans Cymru wared arnynt yn ddiweddar o orsafoedd ambiwlans Y Fenni ac Aber-big yng ngogledd Gwent? Mae’r cam hwnnw yn wrthgynhyrchiol ac mae’n gweithio yn erbyn y fenter ardderchog hon.
I have shown my commitment to addressing a lack of services in those areas where there are the highest levels of heart disease. That includes considering all aspects of delivery, from prevention to treatment to rehabilitation.
Dangosais ymrwymiad i fynd i’r afael â phrinder gwasanaethau yn yr ardaloedd hynny lle mae’r lefelau uchaf o glefyd y galon. Mae hynny’n cynnwys ystyried pob agwedd ar gyflwyno gwasanaethau, o atal y clefyd, i’w drin a’r adferiad dilynol.
Datganiad Busnes
Business Statement
Andrew Davies The Minister for Assembly Business spoken in English p. 37
Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 37
The Business Committee agreed the business for the next three weeks at its meeting this morning. The statement can be found on the Chamberweb under the heading ‘supporting documents.’ I will arrange for a copy of my statement to be posted to the intranet and internet as usual.
Cytunodd y Pwyllgor Busnes ar y busnes ar gyfer y tair wythnos nesaf yn ei gyfarfod y bore yma. Gellir canfod y datganiad ar we’r Siambr o dan y teitl ‘dogfennau ategol’. Trefnaf i gopi o’m datganiad gael ei roi ar y fewnrwyd a’r rhyngrwyd fel arfer.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 37
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 37
Are there any objections to the business statement? I see that there are none. Are there any comments on the business statement? I see that there are none. We will therefore move on.
A oes unrhyw wrthwynebiadau i’r datganiad busnes? Gwelaf nad oes. A oes unrhyw sylwadau ar y datganiad busnes? Gwelaf nad oes. Symudwn ymlaen felly.
Derbyniwyd y datganiad busnes.
Business statement adopted.
Pwyntiau o Drefn
Points of Order
Point of order. I raise this under Standing Order No. 6.3 (v), which refers to the short debate. In response to my short debate, ‘First Objective—Objective 1’, in Plenary last Thursday, the Deputy First Minister and Minister for Economic Development made the following statement, which I quote from the record of proceedings:
Pwynt o drefn. Codaf hyn o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.3 (v), sydd yn cyfeirio at y ddadl fer. Mewn ymateb i’m dadl fer, ‘Yr Amcan Cyntaf—Amcan 1’, yn y Cyfarfod Llawn ddydd Iau diwethaf, gwnaeth y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog a’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd y datganiad canlynol a ddyfynnaf o gofnod y trafodion:
‘Technical assistance was another matter that you raised. Why have only eight applications for technical assistance been received from local partnerships? It is the people who have not made applications who are at fault. Those eight applications were approved. The money is on the table for those who want it. It is up to people to come and collect it.’
‘Yr oedd cymorth technegol yn fater arall a godwyd gennych. Pam mai dim ond wyth cais a dderbyniwyd gan bartneriaethau lleol am gymorth technegol? Y bobl hynny na wnaethant geisiadau sydd ar fai. Cymeradwywyd yr wyth cais hynny. Mae’r arian yno ar gyfer y rhai sydd am ei gael. Cyfrifoldeb y bobl yw dod i’w gasglu.’
I subsequently discovered that that is not the case. The Welsh European Funding Office has confirmed that. Only one application—that made by the Ceredigion Objective 1 local partnership—has been approved. The other seven remain to be determined. Will the Deputy First Minister and Minister for Economic Development make amends by withdrawing that statement, setting the record straight and restoring the confidence of the seven Objective 1 partnerships whose bids have not been approved?
Yn ddiweddarach canfûm nad oedd hynny’n wir. Cadarnhaodd Swyddfa Cyllid Ewropeaidd Cymru mai dim ond un cais—a wnaethpwyd gan bartneriaeth lleol Amcan 1 Ceredigion—a gymeradwywyd. Erys y saith arall heb eu penderfynu. A wnaiff Dirprwy Brif Weinidog Cymru a’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd unioni hynny drwy dynnu’r datganiad hwnnw yn ôl, cywiro’r camgymeriad ac adfer hyder y saith partneriaeth Amcan 1 nad yw eu cynigion wedi’u cymeradwyo?
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 38
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 38
Order. You cannot ask me about the Deputy First Minister and Minister for Economic Development’s comments, as I am not responsible for him.
Trefn. Ni allwch ofyn imi ynglŷn â sylwadau Dirprwy Brif Weinidog Cymru a’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd, gan nad wyf yn gyfrifol amdano.
You are lucky.
Yr ydych yn ffodus.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 38
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 38
Order. Neither am I responsible for the Reverend Rhodri Glyn Thomas. I am not responsible for the contents of speeches made in the Chamber, provided that they are in order. However, the Deputy First Minister and Minister for Economic Development is in the Chamber and he may wish to comment now, for his convenience and ours. If not, there will be questions to the Deputy First Minister and Minister for Economic Development next Thursday when, if Pauline catches my eye, she will have an opportunity to ask her question.
Trefn. Nid wyf ychwaith yn gyfrifol am y Parchedig Rhodri Glyn Thomas. Nid wyf yn gyfrifol am gynnwys areithiau a wnaethpwyd yn y Siambr, ar yr amod eu bod mewn trefn. Fodd bynnag, mae Dirprwy Brif Weinidog Cymru a’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd yn y Siambr ac efallai ei fod yn dymuno cynnig sylw yn awr, er cyfleustod iddo yntau a ninnau. Os nad yw, yna bydd cwestiynau i Ddirprwy Brif Weinidog Cymru a’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd ddydd Iau nesaf pan, os bydd Pauline yn dal fy llygad, y caiff gyfle i ofyn ei chwestiwn.
Michael German The Deputy First Minister and Minister for Economic Development spoken in English p. 38
Michael German Dirprwy Brif Weinidog Cymru a’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 38
I will clarify this matter. There are eight applications. If they have not gone through the whole process, I will clarify that for the Member. Other applications are still eagerly awaited. That is the point that I was making.
Egluraf y mater hwn. Mae wyth cais. Os nad ydynt wedi bod drwy’r broses gyfan, egluraf hynny ar gyfer yr Aelod. Yr ydym yn dal i aros yn eiddgar am geisiadau eraill. Dyna oedd y pwynt yr oeddwn yn ei wneud.
Point of order.
Pwynt o drefn.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 39
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 39
I hope that it is a proper point of order.
Gobeithiaf ei fod yn bwynt o drefn priodol.
It is indeed. It regards the clarity of statements made by the Deputy First Minister and Minister for Economic Development. Will he also confirm whether or not the Assembly will fund the road scheme in Clydach that he—
Ydyw, yn wir. Mae’n ymwneud ag eglurder datganiadau a wnaethpwyd gan Ddirprwy Brif Weinidog Cymru a’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd. A wnaiff yntau hefyd gadarnhau a fydd y Cynulliad yn ariannu’r cynllun ffordd yng Nghlydach y bu ef—
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 39
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 39
That is not a proper point of order. That is an attempt to extend question time by other means, as the Member well knows.
Nid yw hynny’n bwynt o drefn priodol. Mae hynny’n ymgais i ymestyn y sesiwn holi drwy ddull arall, fel y gŵyr yr Aelod yn iawn.
Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd i’r Gadair am 3.24 p.m.
The Deputy Presiding Officer took the Chair at 3.24 p.m.
Strategaeth Technoleg Gwybodaeth a Chyfathrebu
The Information and Communications Technology Strategy
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 39
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 39
I have selected amendments 1, 4 and 5 in the name of William Graham and amendments 2 and 3 in the name of Jocelyn Davies.
Yr wyf wedi dethol gwelliannau 1, 4 a 5 yn enw William Graham a gwelliannau 2 a 3 yn enw Jocelyn Davies.
Andrew Davies The Minister for Assembly Business spoken in English p. 39
Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 39
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Andrew Davies The Minister for Assembly Business (continued) spoken in English p. 39
Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 39
The motion adopted following the Assembly’s last debate on information and communications technology, in November 1999, referred to the Assembly’s role in ‘enthusiastically promoting and supporting’ the use of ICT. We are now in a position to go further than that. Earlier this year, I initiated a public consultation on how the Assembly could best deliver the benefits offered by information and communications technology. The consultation confirmed that the Assembly needs to provide leadership, co-ordination and strategic management for the development of Wales as an information society. This is the purpose of ‘Cymru Ar-lein—Online for a Better Wales’. The Assembly Cabinet is committed to this and believes that it needs to be central to each of our Cabinet briefs.
Cyfeiriodd y cynnig a fabwysiadwyd yn dilyn dadl ddiwethaf y Cynulliad ar dechnoleg gwybodaeth a chyfathrebu, ym mis Tachwedd 1999, at rôl y Cynulliad o safbwynt ‘hyrwyddo a chefnogi’n frwdfrydig’ y defnydd o TGCh. Yr ydym bellach mewn sefyllfa i fynd ymhellach na hynny. Yn gynharach eleni, dechreuais ymgynghoriad cyhoeddus ynghylch sut orau y gallai’r Cynulliad gyflwyno’r manteision a gynigir gan dechnoleg gwybodaeth a chyfathrebu. Cadarnhaodd yr ymgynghoriad fod angen i’r Cynulliad roi arweiniad, cydgysylltu a rheoli’n strategol i ddatblygu Cymru yn gymdeithas wybodaeth mewn modd strategol. Dyna ddiben ‘Cymru Ar-lein—Online for a Better Wales’. Mae Cabinet y Cynulliad yn ymrwymedig i hyn a chred fod angen i’r strategaeth fod yn ganolog i bob un o’n briffiau yn y Cabinet.
I welcome the executive committee of the TeleRegions Network, which is the European ICT network. The committee members are visiting Wales for a few days and are in the Chamber to listen to this debate.
Estynnaf groeso i bwyllgor gweithredol TeleRegions Network, sef y rhwydwaith TGCh Ewropeaidd. Mae aelodau’r pwyllgor yn ymweld â Chymru am ychydig ddyddiau ac maent yn y Siambr i wrando ar y ddadl hon.
As Dafydd Wigley heard me say on Saturday when I visited Bangor, Wales is a small country, and it must also be a clever country. Maximising opportunities is crucial in achieving the status of a small, clever country. Why is this important? There are two compelling reasons for pursuing the goal of creating an information society in Wales. First, ICT is essential in improving Wales’s economic performance, thus creating more jobs and greater prosperity. Secondly, ICT offers exceptional social and cultural benefits to a country such as ours, which has a bilingual and geographically dispersed population. ICT can help Wales to create a more prosperous, culturally richer and a less divided society—a small and clever country indeed.
Fel y clywodd Dafydd Wigley fi’n dweud ddydd Sadwrn pan ymwelais â Bangor, gwlad fach yw Cymru, a rhaid iddi fod yn wlad ddyfeisgar hefyd. Mae manteisio i’r eithaf ar bob cyfle yn hollbwysig i gyflawni statws gwlad fach, ddyfeisgar. Pam bod hyn yn bwysig? Mae dau reswm cymhellol dros anelu at y nod o greu gymdeithas wybodaeth yng Nghymru. Yn gyntaf, mae TGCh yn hanfodol i wella perfformiad economaidd Cymru, gan greu mwy o swyddi a ffyniant. Yn ail, cynigia TGCh fanteision cymdeithasol a diwylliannol enfawr i wlad fel ein gwlad ni, sydd â phoblogaeth ddwyieithog a wasgarwyd yn ddaearyddol. Gall TGCh helpu Cymru i greu cymdeithas fwy ffyniannus, sydd yn ddiwylliannol gyfoethocach ac yn llai rhanedig—gwlad fach, ddyfeisgar yn wir.
On the economic impact of ICT, it is clear that it is capable of generating significant gains in productivity across economies, in opening up markets and creating new areas of enterprise. This is shown to be true particularly of countries on the periphery of Europe. During a recent visit to Sweden, I heard that almost two-thirds of the Swedish population have access to the internet. If Wales meets the ICT needs of businesses, companies and talented individuals would be encouraged to stay in Wales, and others would be encouraged to come here. This applies to manufacturing companies, as well as to media and software companies. It also applies to the public sector, universities—such as the University of Wales, Bangor, which I visited last weekend—and local government.
O ran effaith economaidd TGCh, mae’n amlwg ei bod yn gallu esgor ar fanteision sylweddol o ran cynhyrchiant ar draws economïau, gan agor marchnadoedd a chreu meysydd newydd o fenter. Gwelir hyn yn arbennig yng ngwledydd ar ymylon Ewrop. Yn ystod ymweliad diweddar â Sweden, clywais fod bron i ddau o bob tri o bobl Sweden yn defnyddio’r rhyngrwyd. Pe bai Cymru yn diwallu anghenion TGCh busnesau, byddai hynny yn annog cwmnïau ac unigolion dawnus i aros yng Nghymru, a byddai’n annog eraill i ddod yma. Mae hyn yn berthnasol i gwmnïau gweithgynhyrchu, yn ogystal â chwmnïau sydd yn ymwneud â’r cyfryngau a chwmnïau sydd yn gwneud meddalwedd. Mae hefyd yn berthnasol i’r sector cyhoeddus, prifysgolion—megis Prifysgol Cymru, Bangor, yr ymwelais â hi y penwythnos diwethaf—a llywodraeth leol.
On the effect of ICT on communities, the topography of Wales has meant that previous advances in communications technology, such as canals, railways and roads, have had less impact in Wales than in other parts of the UK. ICT is the first type of communications technology that can be deployed as effectively in Wales as anywhere else. The only issue is cost. It does not involve any serious environmental problems. The opposite is true. ICT makes it possible for people to work globally from rural locations, to engage in more flexible work patterns and to reduce unnecessary travel and its associated environmental problems.
O ran effaith TGCh ar gymunedau, mae topograffi Cymru wedi golygu bod datblygiadau mewn technoleg cyfathrebu yn y gorffennol, megis camlesi, rheilffyrdd a ffyrdd, wedi cael llai o effaith yng Nghymru nag mewn rhannau eraill o’r DU. TGCh yw’r math cyntaf o dechnoleg cyfathrebu y gellir ei defnyddio yr un mor effeithiol yng Nghymru ag mewn unrhyw le arall. Cost yw’r unig broblem. Ni olyga unrhyw broblemau mawr o ran yr amgylchedd. I’r gwrthwyneb. Mae TGCh yn galluogi pobl i weithio ar draws y byd o leoliadau gwledig, ac yn eu galluogi i ymgymryd â phatrymau gwaith mwy hyblyg a lleihau teithio diangen a’i broblemau amgylcheddol cysylltiedig.
ICT is exceptionally useful for a country with the linguistic profile of Wales. I am delighted to see the work of further and higher education institutions in providing bilingual software in Wales. ICT will help to foster the use of English and Welsh in formal and informal settings. ICT can also be a socially enabling technology, offering access to education, training and jobs. Around the world, evidence shows that information and communications technology has been a key factor for countries that have successfully transformed themselves. We want to see such a transformation in Wales. The Cabinet and I believe that the consequences of not acting are, frankly, unthinkable.
Mae TGCh yn ddefnyddiol dros ben i wlad sydd â phroffil ieithyddol fel un Cymru. Yr wyf yn falch iawn o nodi gwaith y sefydliadau addysg bellach ac uwch i gynhyrchu meddalwedd dwyieithog yng Nghymru. Bydd TGCh yn helpu i feithrin y defnydd o’r Saesneg a’r Gymraeg mewn lleoliadau ffurfiol ac anffurfiol. Gall TGCh hefyd fod yn dechnoleg sydd yn gyfrwng cymdeithasol, gan gynnig mynediad i addysg, hyfforddiant a swyddi. Dengys y dystiolaeth, ledled y byd, fod technoleg gwybodaeth a chyfathrebu wedi bod yn ffactor allweddol ar gyfer gwledydd sydd wedi trawsnewid eu hunain yn llwyddiannus. Yr ydym am weld trawsnewid o’r fath yng Nghymru. Cred y Cabinet a minnau fod goblygiadau peidio â gweithredu yn arswydus a dweud y gwir.
Therefore, what should we do? The challenge that faces us is social, cultural and managerial, rather than technical. We know that the technology exists, or will exist very soon. It is a question of how and at what pace it is applied. We need decisive and co-ordinated action in five areas. First, businesses, regardless of their size or location, must have access to and be encouraged to exploit ICT in order to expand their markets, innovate and grow. Secondly, the general public must have affordable access to the global communication network, for the purposes of education, communication, entertainment and the use of public services, in and beyond Wales. ICT offers a key means of combating social exclusion. Thirdly, the public sector will be critical in building demand for high bandwidth ICT services. It needs to be innovative in making services available electronically, particularly in the fields of health and education. I am aware that the Health and Social Services Committee and the Education and Lifelong Learning Committee have been looking at this in detail. It also applies to social services, tourism, the media and education. The fourth key area is education, which will be transformed by ICT. Wales needs to be at the forefront, offering students access to global services, as well as tailoring new e-services to Welsh needs. I was delighted to launch the BA degree course on internet studies at the University of Wales, Bangor. Finally, we need first-class infrastructure that will underpin all other areas of ICT development. Attaining affordable, accessible broadband infrastructure throughout Wales must be our priority.
Felly, beth y dylem ei wneud? Mae’r her a wynebwn yn un gymdeithasol, diwylliannol ac yn ymwneud â rheoli, yn hytrach nag un dechnegol. Gwyddom fod y dechnoleg yn bodoli, neu y daw i fodolaeth yn fuan iawn. Mae’n fater o sut a pha mor gyflym y’i cymhwysir. Mae angen inni gymryd camau pendant a chydgysylltiedig mewn pum maes. Yn gyntaf, rhaid i fusnesau, waeth beth fo’u maint neu eu lleoliad, gael mynediad i TGCh a rhaid eu hannog i’w defnyddio er mwyn ehangu eu marchnadoedd, arloesi a thyfu. Yn ail, rhaid i’r cyhoedd gael mynediad fforddiadwy i’r rhwydwaith cyfathrebu byd-eang, at ddibenion addysg, cyfathrebu, adloniant ac ar gyfer defnyddio gwasanaethau cyhoeddus, yng Nghymru a thu hwnt. Rhydd TGCh fodd allweddol o ymladd yn erbyn allgáu cymdeithasol. Yn drydydd, bydd y sector cyhoeddus yn holl bwysig o ran hybu’r galw am wasanaethau ystod uchel TGCh. Mae angen iddi fod yn ddyfeisgar o ran sicrhau bod gwasanaethau ar gael yn electronig, yn arbennig ym maes iechyd ac addysg. Yr wyf yn ymwybodol bod y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol a’r Pwyllgor Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes wedi bod yn ystyried hyn yn fanwl. Mae hefyd yn berthnasol i’r gwasanaethau cymdeithasol, twristiaeth, y cyfryngau ac addysg. Y pedwerydd maes allweddol yw addysg, a gaiff ei thrawsnewid gan TGCh. Mae angen i Gymru fod ar flaen y gad, yn rhoi mynediad i wasanaethau byd-eang i fyfyrwyr, yn ogystal â theilwra e-wasanaethau newydd i anghenion Cymru. Yr oeddwn yn falch o lansio cwrs gradd BA ar astudiaethau’r rhyngrwyd ym Mhrifysgol Cymru, Bangor. Yn olaf, mae angen seilwaith o’r radd flaenaf arnom, a fydd yn sail i bob maes arall o ddatblygu TGCh. Rhaid inni roi blaenoriaeth i sicrhau seilwaith band llydan fforddiadwy a hygyrch ledled Cymru.
William Graham’s amendment 1 asks us to give particular regard to people facing communication difficulties due to loss of sight, hearing or speech. Although the motion encompasses this in its reference to equal opportunities, I agree with William’s point. However, I believe that his list of those facing communication difficulties should include those who face other physical, social or educational barriers in order to ensure, as the motion says, equal opportunities for all. Therefore, I commend support of this amendment. Members may remember the Royal National Institute for the Blind Cymru’s exhibition in the Assembly Neuadd, which demonstrated the latest technology for blind or visually impaired people. As I said earlier, attaining an affordable and accessible broadband infrastructure throughout Wales is a priority of ‘Cymru Ar-lein’, therefore, I happily support Jocelyn Davies’s amendment 2 on accessibility to broadband, although, I wish she had read the document first, which would have made her amendment redundant.
Mae gwelliant William Graham yn galw arnom i roi sylw arbennig i bobl ag anawsterau cyfathrebu oherwydd nam ar eu golwg, eu clyw neu eu lleferydd. Er bod y cynnig yn cwmpasu hyn yn y cyfeiriad at gyfle cyfartal, cytunaf â phwynt William. Fodd bynnag, credaf y dylai ei restr o’r rhai sydd ag anawsterau cyfathrebu gynnwys y rhai sydd yn wynebu rhwystrau corfforol, cymdeithasol neu addysgol eraill er mwyn sicrhau, fel y dywed y cynnig, fod cyfle cyfartal i bawb. Felly, argymhellaf gefnogi’r gwelliant hwn. Efallai y bydd yr Aelodau yn cofio arddangosfa Sefydliad Brenhinol Cenedlaethol y Deillion yng Nghymru yn Neuadd y Cynulliad, a ddangosai’r dechnoleg ddiweddaraf ar gyfer pobl ddall neu bobl â nam ar eu golwg. Fel y dywedais yn gynharach, mae sicrhau seilwaith band llydan fforddiadwy a hygyrch ledled Cymru yn un o flaenoriaethau ‘Cymru Ar-lein’, felly, yr wyf yn fwy na pharod i gefnogi gwelliant 2 Jocelyn Davies ynglŷn â sicrhau bod band llydan ar gael, er yr hoffwn pe bai wedi darllen y ddogfen yn gyntaf, a fyddai wedi gwneud ei gwelliant yn ddiangen.
The national economic development strategy rightly identifies the telecommunications industry as a key sector in economic development in Wales. Mike German and I are working closely on this matter to ensure co-ordination between the two strategies. Again, I support Jocelyn Davies’s amendment 3 on the opto-electronic and telecommunication sectors. However, I reject William Graham’s amendment 4 on access to the internet in Wales and the rest of the UK, not because I disagree with its principle, but because I have serious concerns about the practicalities of tying ourselves to the moving target of average figures for UK access to the internet. It is often up to the private sector to make that provision. In ‘Cymru Arlein’ we commit to improving access and take-up of the internet in Wales, although we will continue to compare our performance with that of the rest of the UK and the world for benchmarking purposes. ICT should be seen as a means to an end and not as an end in itself. Targets cannot simply be about access, they must relate to longer-term benefits.
Noda’r strategaeth datblygu economaidd genedlaethol fod y diwydiant telathrebu yn sector allweddol o ran datblygu economaidd yng Nghymru a hynny’n gwbl briodol. Mae Mike German a minnau’n cydweithio’n agos ar y mater hwn er mwyn sicrhau y caiff y ddwy strategaeth eu cydgysylltu. Unwaith eto, cefnogaf welliant 3 Jocelyn Davies ar y sector opto-electronig a’r sector telathrebu. Fodd bynnag, gwrthodaf welliant 4 William Graham ar fynediad i’r rhyngrwyd yng Nghymru a gweddill y DU, nid oherwydd fy mod yn anghytuno ag egwyddor y gwelliant, ond am fod pryderon mawr gennyf ynglŷn ag ymarferoldeb clymu ein hunain i darged symudol ffigurau cyfartalog y DU ar gyfer mynediad i’r rhyngrwyd. Y sector preifat yn aml fydd yn gwneud y ddarpariaeth honno. Yn ‘Cymru Ar-lein’ yr ydym yn ymrwymedig i wella mynediad i’r rhyngrwyd yng Nghymru ac i gynyddu nifer y bobl sydd yn ei defnyddio, er y byddwn yn parhau i gymharu ein perfformiad â pherfformiad gweddill y DU a’r byd at ddibenion meincnodi. Dylid ystyried TGCh yn fodd o gyflawni diben yn hytrach na diben ynddo’i hun. Ni ellir pennu targedau o ran mynediad, rhaid iddynt ymwneud â buddiannau tymor hwy.
I support William Graham’s amendment 5 on working with the international community to combat socially undesirable images and materials via the internet. Although the Assembly has few, if any, delegated functions in this area, we recognise its importance and will continue to work with the Home Office and the international community on this as well as use our own activities to highlight the problems.
Cefnogaf welliant 5 William Graham ynglŷn â chydweithio â’r gymuned ryngwladol i ymladd yn erbyn delweddau a deunyddiau ar y rhyngrwyd sydd yn annerbyniol gan gymdeithas. Er mai prin yw swyddogaethau dirprwyedig y Cynulliad yn y maes hwn, os o gwbl, cydnabyddwn bwysigrwydd hyn a byddwn yn parhau i gydweithio gyda’r Swyddfa Gartref a’r gymuned ryngwladol ar hyn yn ogystal â defnyddio ein gweithgareddau ein hunain i amlygu’r problemau.
In conclusion, I will quote from George Gilder’s publication Telecosm—How Infinite
I gloi, dyfynnaf o gyhoeddiad George Gilder Telecosm—How Infinite Bandwidth Will
Bandwidth Will Revolutionize Our World:
Revolutionize Our World:
‘The computer age is over. After a cataclysmic global run of 30 years, it has given birth to the age of the telecosm—the world enabled and defined by new telecommunications technology. Chips and software will continue to make great contributions to our lives, but the action is elsewhere. Bandwidth is exploding and its abundance is the most important social and economic fact of our time.’
As I said in my introduction, if we are to create a Wales that is seen as a small and clever country, we need to address these issues. I therefore, heartily commend the document ‘Cymru Arlein—Online for a Better Wales’ to you.
Fel y dywedais yn fy nghyflwyniad, er mwyn inni greu Cymru a gaiff ei hystyried yn wlad fach, ddyfeisgar, mae angen inni fynd i’r afael â’r materion hyn. Felly, cymeradwyaf y ddogfen ‘Cymru Ar-lein—Online for a Better Wales’ ichi.
I propose the following amendments. Amendment 1: at the end of point 2, add:
Cynigiaf y gwelliannau canlynol. Gwelliant 1: ar ddiwedd pwynt 2, ychwanegu:
William Graham (continued) spoken in English p. 44
William Graham (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 44
I propose amendment 4. Add a new point to the end of the motion, that reads:
Cynigiaf welliant 4. Ychwanegu pwynt newydd at ddiwedd y cynnig sy’n darllen:
William Graham (continued) spoken in English p. 44
William Graham (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 44
I propose amendment 5. Add a new point to the end of the motion, that reads:
Cynigiaf welliant 5. Ychwanegu pwynt newydd at ddiwedd y cynnig, sy’n darllen:
William Graham (continued) spoken in English p. 44
William Graham (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 44
ICT, like Objective 1, is a unique opportunity to provide a better future for all the communities of Wales. The potential allows us to consider all our hopes and dreams with regard to industry, education, communications, information and leisure. If the national ICT strategy that we produce fails to fulfil this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, costs of getting it wrong would be too grave to consider. It would be the equivalent of squandering all the Objective 1 money on projects to beautify our communities and failing to create the vital employment opportunities, particularly within manufacturing, necessary to attract the economic conditions and investment to sustain our communities. Like Objective 1, the associated problems of these issues predate the existence of the Assembly. To some extent, we have had to catch up on lost time on the pace of technological development and in educating those who fear change to adapt and grasp the full benefit and opportunities that ICT offers. The position with ICT is like that highlighted in the National Basic Skills Strategy for Wales, namely the need to explore new approaches to helping children, young people and adults to catch up before it is too late.
Mae TGCh, fel Amcan 1, yn gyfle unigryw i sicrhau dyfodol gwell i holl gymunedau Cymru. Mae’r posibiliadau yn ein galluogi i ystyried ein holl obeithion a’n breuddwydion o ran diwydiant, addysg, cyfathrebu, gwybodaeth a hamdden. Os na fydd y strategaeth TGCh a luniwn yn manteisio ar y cyfle unigryw hwn, byddai pris methiant yn rhy ddifrifol i’w ystyried. Byddai cystal â gwastraffu holl arian Amcan 1 ar brosiectau i harddu ein cymunedau a methu â chreu cyfleoedd gwaith holl bwysig, yn enwedig yn y sector gweithgynhyrchu, sydd eu hangen er mwyn creu’r amodau economaidd a buddsoddiad er mwyn cynnal ein cymunedau. Fel yn achos Amcan 1, mae’r problemau sydd yn gysylltiedig â’r materion hyn yn rhagflaenu bodolaeth y Cynulliad. I ryw raddau, rhaid inni wneud yn iawn am yr amser a gollwyd o safbwynt cyflymder datblygiad technolegol ac addysgu’r rhai y mae ofn newid arnynt i ymaddasu a bachu’r cyfleoedd a manteision llawn a gynigia TGCh. Mae’r sefyllfa o ran TGCh yn debyg i’r hyn a nodwyd yn y Strategaeth Sgiliau Sylfaenol Genedlaethol i Gymru, sef yr angen i ymchwilio i ddulliau newydd o helpu plant, pobl ifanc ac oedolion i gyrraedd y nod cyn ei bod yn rhy hwyr.
It took until 21 June 2001, a total of almost 26 months and 145 Plenary Sessions, before we were able to exercise, with equality, our responsibilities to question and scrutinise the Minister for E-Commerce via oral questions in this Chamber—an oversight that this Assembly has now addressed. The Welsh Conservative group notes the Minister’s commitment during his initial Plenary question and answer session to bring to today’s Plenary full details of an affordable broadband provision throughout Wales.
Nid oedd yn bosibl inni ymarfer, yn deg, ein cyfrifoldebau dros holi a chraffu ar waith y Gweinidog dros E-Fasnach drwy gwestiynau llafar yn y Siambr hon tan 21 Mehefin 2001, sef ar ôl bron i 26 mis a 145 o Gyfarfodydd Llawn fynd heibio—gwall y mae’r Cynulliad hwn bellach wedi ei unioni. Noda grŵp Ceidwadwyr Cymru ymrwymiad y Gweinidog yn ystod ei sesiwn holi ac ateb gyntaf mewn Cyfarfod Llawn i roi manylion llawn am ddarpariaeth band llydan fforddiadwy ledled Cymru i’r Cyfarfod Llawn heddiw.
We noted that the document entitled, ‘The National Assembly for Wales Information Age Strategic Framework’, failed to meet this commitment. We are disappointed that the details given in today’s Plenary are not as full as they could have been. We understand that the independent sector will only thrive if it is at the cutting edge of technological progress and innovation. It has to carry the private sector forward and then it will not impede the progress of all communities throughout Wales in ICT development. The independent sector must be freed of all unnecessary regulation that will slow down its progress to develop, implement and bring online the IT system that will benefit the whole of Wales with faster communication networks, inward investment, employment creation and greater opportunities in education and research. The Welsh Conservative group is gravely concerned that the document outlining the Assembly’s future strategy with regard to ICT has been posted on the internet. Everyone may see it and have access to the initiatives. The document is clearly and distinctively identified as being a draft. It is not cleared by Assembly Ministers and it is not for general release.
Nodwyd gennym nad yw’r ddogfen sydd yn dwyn y teitl, ‘Fframwaith Strategol Oes Wybodaeth Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru’, wedi cyflawni’r ymrwymiad hwn. Cawsom ein siomi nad yw’r manylion a roddwyd yn y Cyfarfod Llawn heddiw mor llawn ag y gallent fod. Deallwn mai dim ond os bydd ar flaen y gad o ran datblygiadau a dyfeisgarwch technolegol y bydd y sector annibynnol yn ffynnu. Rhaid iddo dywys y sector preifat ac yna ni fydd yn atal datblygiad TGCh ym mhob cymuned ledled Cymru. Rhaid rhyddhau’r sector annibynnol rhag pob rheoliad diangen a fydd yn arafu’r cynnydd o safbwynt datblygu, gweithredu a chyflwyno system TG a fydd o fudd i Gymru gyfan o ran rhwydweithiau cyfathrebu cyflymach, mewnfuddsoddiad, creu swyddi a mwy o gyfleoedd mewn addysg ac ymchwil. Mae grŵp Ceidwadwyr Cymru yn pryderu’n fawr ynglŷn â’r ffaith i’r ddogfen sydd yn amlinellu strategaeth y Cynulliad yn y dyfodol o ran TGCh gael ei rhoi ar y rhyngrwyd. Gall pawb ei gweld a darllen am y mentrau. Nodwyd yn blaen mai ar ffurf drafft y mae’r ddogfen. Nis cymeradwywyd gan Weinidogion y Cynulliad ac nid yw wedi’i chyhoeddi’n gyffredinol.
On this occasion, the document contains no national or commercially sensitive information, but it clearly illustrates the need for extra vigilance and security measures for publication of government information on the internet, particularly in organisations such as the National Assembly for Wales, where the internet is used as the primary method of public information. It is because the Minister allowed his keynote policy initiatives to be accessed in their draft form that we believed he would make a clear and informative statement in Plenary. In recognising the enormity of a national ICT strategy, we have focused upon three issues, which if addressed, will ensure that the guidelines for implementing a successful ICT strategy are in place. I am grateful to the Minister for indicating that he will support amendments 1 and 4.
Ar yr achlysur hwn, nid yw’r ddogfen yn cynnwys unrhyw wybodaeth sydd yn fasnachol neu’n genedlaethol sensitif, ond dengys yn glir bod angen inni fod yn fwy gwyliadwrus a chyflwyno mesurau diogelwch ar gyhoeddi gwybodaeth y llywodraeth ar y rhyngrwyd, yn arbennig mewn sefydliadau megis Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru, lle y defnyddir y rhyngrwyd fel y prif ddull o ledaenu gwybodaeth i’r cyhoedd. Credwn y byddai’r Trefnydd yn gwneud datganiad clir, llawn gwybodaeth mewn Cyfarfod Llawn oherwydd y bu iddo gyhoeddi ei fentrau polisi allweddol ar ffurf drafft. Wrth gydnabod pwysigrwydd strategaeth TGCh genedlaethol, buom yn canolbwyntio ar dri mater, a fydd yn sicrhau bod y canllawiau ar gyfer gweithredu strategaeth TGCh lwyddiannus ar waith, os eir i’r afael â hwy. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i’r Trefnydd am nodi y bydd yn cefnogi gwelliannau 1 a 4.
Amendment 1 highlights the specific needs of a group of people who may not be numerous in a single neighbourhood, but are a significant number in the community of Wales—people who have impairment in their ability to communicate. These people may often be socially and physically excluded from many aspects of community life. Often, they have limited employment opportunities or communication difficulties that arise from other medical problems. Their needs must be met within our ICT policies. If innovations that can include these people are developed, they will also allow other socially excluded people in communities throughout Wales to share in the advancements of lifestyle that ICT offers.
Noda gwelliant 1 anghenion penodol grŵp o bobl nad ydynt o bosibl yn niferus mewn ardal unigol, ond y mae nifer sylweddol ohonynt o fewn cymuned Cymru—pobl sydd â nam ar eu gallu i gyfathrebu. Yn aml, gall y bobl hyn fod wedi eu hallgáu’n gymdeithasol ac yn gorfforol o sawl agwedd ar fywyd cymuned. Yn aml, prin yw eu cyfleoedd gwaith a chânt anhawster i gyfathrebu oherwydd problemau meddygol eraill. Rhaid diwallu eu hanghenion o fewn ein polisïau TGCh. Os datblygir dyfeisiadau a all gynnwys y bobl hyn, byddant hefyd yn galluogi pobl eraill a gaiff eu hallgáu yn gymdeithasol mewn cymunedau ledled Cymru i rannu yn y newidiadau er gwell i ffordd o fyw a gynigir gan TGCh.
The Assembly must address the fact that Wales has the lowest level of household access to the internet. In many instances, that is because of the prohibitive costs of the hardware required. This administration must focus attention to ensure that this position is quickly brought up to the level of access throughout the United Kingdom. Every possible initiative towards achieving this goal must be considered because there is no way that we can ensure our nation is brought up to date if we cannot access the information systems that will enhance our learning opportunities and lifestyles. We trust that the Assembly will take up this challenge and support amendment 4. Governments must make great efforts to ensure that all that they post on the internet is for public access. The image of Wales, as the First Minister explained last week, requires a unique identity that portrays our nation with a favourable international appeal. That will be greatly assisted by not repeating this error of posting incomplete draft policy initiatives on the National Assembly’s website. There is a need to exercise control—via guidelines—over the information that is published on the internet. The Wales Council for Voluntary Action has already deliberated over the need to be totally open with regard to information or certain individuals’ private addresses. Public, legitimate interests must be balanced against the identity of charity trustees.
Rhaid i’r Cynulliad fynd i’r afael â’r ffaith mai yng Nghymru y mae’r nifer isaf o bobl â mynediad i’r rhyngrwyd yn y cartref. Y rheswm dros hynny, mewn llawer o achosion, yw costau afresymol y galedwedd sydd ei hangen. Rhaid i’r weinyddiaeth hon roi sylw i hyn er mwyn sicrhau bod y nifer â mynediad yn ymdebygu’n gyflym i lefel y mynediad ledled y Deyrnas Unedig. Rhaid ystyried pob menter bosibl tuag at gyflawni’r nod hwn am nad oes unrhyw ffordd y gallwn sicrhau y bydd ein cenedl yn manteisio ar y datblygiadau diweddaraf oni allwn ddefnyddio’r systemau gwybodaeth a fydd yn gwella ein cyfleoedd dysgu a’n ffordd o fyw. Hyderwn y bydd y Cynulliad yn wynebu’r her hon ac yn cefnogi gwelliant 4. Rhaid i lywodraethau wneud ymdrechion mawr i sicrhau bod pob dogfen a roddir ar y rhyngrwyd ganddynt i’w darllen gan y cyhoedd. Mae delwedd Cymru, fel yr esboniodd y Prif Weinidog yr wythnos diwethaf, yn galw am hunaniaeth unigryw sydd yn rhoi darlun o’n cenedl ag iddo apêl ryngwladol ffafriol. Byddai o gymorth mawr o ran hynny pe na bai’r camgymeriad hwn, sef rhoi mentrau polisi drafft anghyflawn ar wefan y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, yn digwydd eto. Mae angen rheoli’r wybodaeth a gyhoeddir ar y rhyngrwyd, drwy gyfrwng canllawiau. Mae Cyngor Gweithredu Gwirfoddol Cymru eisoes wedi trafod yr angen i fod yn gwbl agored o ran gwybodaeth neu gyfeiriadau preifat unigolion penodol. Rhaid gwrthbwyso buddiannau priodol y cyhoedd yn erbyn rhoi manylion am ymddiriedolaethwyr elusennau.
This dilemma is far greater when considering the socially undesirable images and information that are posted on the internet. Amendment 5 proposes that we work with the international community to combat the distribution of this type of data and recognise that it is impossible to police the internet. There will always be a country somewhere in the world from which people will be able to publish these socially undesirable images and information. We need to ensure that we are able to use the latest available software in our schools, colleges and libraries that offers the ability to screen for and close-off access to this type of information.
Ceir mwy o gyfyng gyngor byth o ystyried y delweddau a’r wybodaeth gymdeithasol annerbyniol a roddir ar y rhyngrwyd. Cynigia gwelliant 5 y dylem gydweithio gyda’r gymuned ryngwladol i ymladd yn erbyn dosbarthu’r math hwn o ddata a chydnabod nad oes modd plismona’r rhyngrwyd. Bydd bob amser ryw wlad rywle yn y byd lle y gall pobl gyhoeddi’r delweddau a’r wybodaeth gymdeithasol annerbyniol hyn oddi yno. Mae angen inni sicrhau ein bod yn gallu defnyddio’r meddalwedd diweddaraf yn ein hysgolion, ein colegau a’n llyfrgelloedd, a fydd yn gallu sgrinio ar gyfer y math hwn o wybodaeth gan gau pob mynediad iddi.
I propose the following amendments in the name of Jocelyn Davies. Amendment 2: add new point at end of motion:
Cynigiaf y gwelliannau canlynol yn enw Jocelyn Davies. Gwelliant 2: ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:
I propose amendment 3. Add new point at end of motion:
Cynigiaf welliant 3. Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:
As an avid reader of ICT literature, I found ‘Cymru Ar-lein—Online for a Better Wales’ disappointing on technical aspects. I would have expected a strategic framework to start with an objective outline of the present situation, including the present communications backbone linking the telephone exchanges, an up to date account of how many of these exchanges can provide broadband and an indication of how those exchanges are connected to the local customers. At least, we might have had an update on the summary that appeared in the report, ‘UK Online: The Broadband Future’, which indicated that Wales, along with south-west England, is bottom of the UK league. By the end of 2003, only 55 per cent of the population of Wales will have possible access to an asymmetric digital subscriber line. In Scotland, by contrast, 80 per cent of the population will have broadband access and the figure for Northern Ireland is 95 per cent. The UK is also falling behind the Nordic and Benelux countries.
Fel darllenydd brwd o ddeunydd darllen TGCh, cefais fy siomi gan yr agweddau technegol ar ‘Cymru Ar-lein—Online for a Better Wales’. Byddwn wedi disgwyl i fframwaith strategol ddechrau drwy roi crynodeb gwrthrychol o’r sefyllfa sydd ohoni, gan gynnwys y seilwaith gyfathrebu bresennol sydd yn cysylltu cyfnewidfeydd ffôn, ynghyd â’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf ynghylch faint o’r cyfnewidfeydd hyn a all ddarparu band llydan ac arwydd o sut y caiff y cyfnewidfeydd hyn eu cysylltu â’r cwsmeriaid lleol. Ar y lleiaf, gellid bod wedi diweddaru’r crynodeb a ymddangosai yn yr adroddiad, ‘UK Online: The Broadband Future’, a nododd fod Cymru, ynghyd â de-ddwyrain Lloegr, ar waelod cynghrair y DU. Erbyn diwedd 2003, dim ond 55 y cant o boblogaeth Cymru fydd â mynediad posibl i linell danysgrifio ddigidol anghymesur. Yn yr Alban, ar y llaw arall, bydd gan 80 y cant o’r boblogaeth fynediad i fand llydan a 95 y cant yng Ngogledd Iwerddon. Mae’r DU hefyd ar ei hôl hi o gymharu â gwledydd Nordig a Benelwcs.
If broadband infrastructure is the key to economic development, we have much ground to make up. However, there are few facts in ‘Cymru Ar-Lein’; not even the good news is given. It is amazing that I cannot find reference to Llwybr/Pathway, which is an exciting development. What detailed plans does the Government have to improve broadband access in all parts of Wales, especially in rural Wales, where some of the greatest potential benefits could be gained?
Os mai seilwaith band llydan yw’r allwedd i ddatblygu economaidd, mae gennym dipyn o ffordd i fynd. Fodd bynnag, prin yw’r ffeithiau yn ‘Cymru Ar-lein’; ni roddir y newyddion da hyd yn oed. Rhyfeddaf na allaf ddod o hyd i gyfeiriad at Lwybr/Pathway, sydd yn ddatblygiad cyffrous. Pa gynlluniau manwl sydd gan y Llywodraeth i wella mynediad i fand llydan ym mhob rhan o Gymru, yn arbennig yng nghefn gwlad Cymru, lle y gellid cael rhai o’r manteision mwyaf posibl?
On a personal note, when will I have access to true broadband communications in my home outside Aberystwyth, in my office in Tredegar or in my home in Bargoed? I am not optimistic. According to ‘UK Online’, for true broadband access, it is necessary to have fibre-optic connection within about 1 kilometre of the customer. Is that the intention in Wales? I see danger signs when this document asks for the wireless spectrum to be available for higher bandwidth services but does not state what kind of wireless link, whether it is S-band or K-band. Perhaps Andrew will tell us. Both have fundamental limitations. At the lower end of the spectrum, the problem is lack of bandwidth and, once the market expands—as we hope that it will—the serious problem will be cross-talk. Remember that we are talking about bandwidths hundreds of times wider than that for mobile phones.
Ar nodyn personol, pryd y caf fynediad i gyfathrebu band llydan gwirioneddol yn fy nghartref gerllaw Aberystwyth, yn fy swyddfa yn Nhredegar neu yn fy nghartref ym Margoed? Nid wyf yn optimistaidd. Yn ôl ‘UK Online’ mae angen cael cysylltiad ffeibr-optig o fewn 1 cilomedr i’r cwsmer er mwyn cael mynediad band llydan gwirioneddol. Ai dyna’r bwriad yng Nghymru? Gwelaf beryglon pan fydd y ddogfen hon yn gofyn i sbectrwm di-wifr fod ar gael ar gyfer gwasanaethau ystod band llydan uwch ond nad yw’n nodi pa fath o gysylltiad di-wifr, pa un ai band-S neu fand-K fyddai. Efallai y bydd Andrew yn dweud wrthym. Mae cyfyngiadau sylfaenol i’r ddau. Ar ben isaf y sbectrwm, y broblem yw diffyg ystod ac, unwaith y bydd y farchnad yn ehangu—fel y gobeithiwn y bydd—bydd problem fawr o ran croes-siarad. Cofiwch ein bod yn sôn am ystodau ganwaith lletach nag ar gyfer ffonau symudol.
K-band is at the other end of the spectrum. That band has far more bandwidth but, unfortunately, signals at that band can only travel in straight lines and Wales has hills. Therefore, the range is limited. There are unavoidable physical reasons why wireless can only provide a short-term solution for a small number of customers. It is not surprising that there have been serious problems in selling regional licences for wireless access in rural areas. There is no substitute for a full optic-fibre network reaching out from the exchanges to serve each group of houses. That is the intention of amendment 2, and I have read the report carefully.
Mae band-K ar ben arall y sbectrwm. Mae llawer mwy o ystod i’r band hwnnw ond, gwaetha’r modd, dim ond mewn llinellau syth y gall signalau ar y band hwnnw deithio, ac, yng Nghymru, ceir bryniau. Felly cyfyngedig yw’r cwmpas. Mae rhesymau ffisegol anochel pam mai dim ond ateb byrdymor i nifer fach o gwsmeriaid y gall gwasanaeth di-wifr ei ddarparu. Nid oes ryfedd y cafwyd problemau mawr o ran gwerthu trwyddedau rhanbarthol ar gyfer mynediad di-wifr mewn ardaloedd gwledig. Nid oes unrhyw beth a all gymryd lle rhwydwaith ffeibr-optig llawn sydd yn ymestyn o’r cyfnewidfeydd i wasanaethu pob grŵp o dai. Dyna fwriad gwelliant 2, a darllenais yr adroddiad yn ofalus.
If you intend to provide broadband access to every school, then, technically, that will take you a long way to providing universal access, which is the logical next step. That was already a realistic aspiration in 1995, when Plaid Cymru first proposed that strategy. Today, it is becoming a reality in other countries. By 2004, Sweden will have fibre connection to 98 per cent of its listed towns and villages.
Os bwriadwch ddarparu mynediad band llydan i bob ysgol, yna, o safbwynt technegol, bydd hynny’n mynd gryn dipyn o’r ffordd i ddarparu mynediad cyffredinol, sef y cam rhesymegol nesaf. Yr oedd hynny’n uchelgais realistig yn 1995, pan gynigiodd Plaid Cymru y strategaeth honno am y tro cyntaf. Heddiw, fe’i gwireddir mewn gwledydd eraill. Erbyn 2004, bydd gan Sweden gysylltiad ffeibr â 98 y cant o’i threfi a’i phentrefi.
When we consider what that implies, we see that the optronics sector, including fibre production, is one of our key strategic industries. It does not take a rocket scientist to see the scope for proper integrated planning, led by the Government in partnership with the manufacturers, the service providers and all aspects of public service. This is a combination of demand-led and supply-led government, which I like to think was one of the better features of old Labour.
Pan ystyriwn yr hyn sydd ymhlyg wrth hynny, gwelwn fod y sector optroneg, gan gynnwys cynhyrchu ffeibr, yn un o’n diwydiannau strategol allweddol. Nid oes angen athrylith i ganfod y cyfle ar gyfer gwaith cynllunio integredig, o dan arweiniad y Llywodraeth mewn partneriaeth â’r gweithgynhyrchwyr, y darparwyr gwasanaeth a phob agwedd ar y gwasanaethau cyhoeddus. Mae hwn yn gyfuniad o lywodraeth a lywir yn ôl y galw ac yn ôl cyflenwad, nodwedd a oedd yn un o nodweddion gorau yr hen Lafur, yn fy nhyb i.
We need firm plans, and we do not get them in this document. Perhaps the most clear indication of that comes from the evidence of Objective 1. Priority 2, measure 1 of that programme is specifically devoted to improving ICT infrastructure. Yet, to date, no projects have been approved for this measure and, far worse, there is no infrastructure regional partnership in place 18 months into the programme.
Mae angen cynlluniau pendant arnom, ac nid yw’r ddogfen hon yn eu cynnwys. Efallai mai’r arwydd amlycaf o hynny yw’r dystiolaeth o Amcan 1. Mae Blaenoriaeth 2, mesur 1 y rhaglen honno yn ymrwymedig i wella’r seilwaith TGCh yn benodol. Eto, hyd yn hyn, ni chymeradwywyd unrhyw brosiectau ar gyfer y mesur hwn, ac yn waeth byth, nid oes partneriaeth seilwaith ranbarthol ar waith 18 mis ar ôl dechrau’r rhaglen.
After two years, we are beginning to recognise a constant feature of the present Government of Wales. ‘Betterwales.com’, the partnership agreement, the draft national economic development strategy and ‘Cymru Ar-lein’ have wonderful aspirations that we can, and do, share. They include aspirations to have access to electronic services that is above the UK average. However, these aspirations are often without an underlying conviction; they are wish lists without a detailed, costed programme.
Ar ôl dwy flynedd, yr ydym yn dechrau adnabod nodwedd barhaol Llywodraeth bresennol Cymru. Yn ‘Gwellcymru.com’, y cytundeb partneriaeth, y strategaeth datblygu economaidd genedlaethol a ‘Cymru Ar-lein’ ceir dyheadau gwych y gallwn, ac yr ydym, yn eu rhannu. Maent yn cynnwys dyheadau i gael mynediad i wasanaethau electronig sydd yn uwch na’r cyfartaledd yn y DU. Fodd bynnag, yn aml nid oes unrhyw argyhoeddiad yn sail i’r dyheadau hyn; rhestrau o ddymuniadau ydynt heb unrhyw raglen fanwl wedi ei chostio.
I am grateful for the opportunity to make a brief contribution on this important subject. We all acknowledge the potential of ICT to improve Wales’s economic performance and prosperity. However, we must also recognise its potential to accentuate already wide social and economic divisions, between Wales and other parts of the UK and between individuals and communities within Wales.
Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am y cyfle i wneud cyfraniad byr ar y pwnc pwysig hwn. Yr ydym oll yn cydnabod posibiliadau TGCh o ran gwella perfformiad economaidd Cymru a’i ffyniant. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni gydnabod hefyd y gallai ddwysau’r rhaniadau cymdeithasol ac economaidd sydd eisoes yn rhai mawr, rhwng Cymru a rhannau eraill o’r DU a rhwng unigolion a chymunedau o fewn Cymru.
I welcome the many positive ideas in ‘Cymru Ar-lein—Online for a Better Wales’, although they all bear considerable cost implications. These include encouraging free ICT classes for the unemployed as part of their jobseekers package, so that they can prepare themselves for returning to work by obtaining improved and updated skills; free communication technology courses for all members of staff in the public and private sectors; funding for computers in the voluntary sector, to improve skills and help to increase public awareness of charitable causes; help for improving access for disabled persons to a wide variety of services; grants to community centres and libraries to install computers and provide public tuition in ICT skills; promoting the use of communications technology in primary schools so that it becomes a way of life at the earliest possible age; and encouraging tourism to local areas.
Croesawaf y syniadau cadarnhaol lu yn ‘Cymru Ar-lein—Online for a Better Wales’, er bod goblygiadau mawr iawn iddynt o ran cost. Ymhlith y rhain mae annog dosbarthiadau TGCh am ddim i bobl ddi-waith fel rhan o’u pecyn ceisio gwaith, fel y gallant ymbaratoi ar gyfer dychwelyd i’r gwaith drwy feithrin gwell sgiliau a sgiliau mwy cyfoes; cyrsiau technoleg cyfathrebu am ddim i bob aelod o staff yn y sector cyhoeddus a’r sector preifat; arian ar gyfer cyfrifiaduron yn y sector gwirfoddol, i wella sgiliau a helpu i godi ymwybyddiaeth y cyhoedd ynglŷn ag achosion elusennol; cymorth i wella’r mynediad i ystod eang o wasanaethau ar gyfer pobl anabl; grantiau i ganolfannau cymuned a llyfrgelloedd ar gyfer gosod cyfrifiaduron a rhoi hyfforddiant mewn sgiliau TGCh i’r cyhoedd; hyrwyddo’r defnydd o dechnoleg gyfathrebu mewn ysgolion cynradd fel y gall ddod yn rhan annatod o fywyd mor gynnar â phosibl; a hyrwyddo twristiaeth mewn ardaloedd lleol.
A discrepancy currently exists in the form of a mismatch between authority and technical expertise. That must be addressed. Often, those with the power and managerial wherewithal to develop and implement ICT strategies do not have the technical expertise to deliver them. This has been manifest in Pembrokeshire County Council’s development of ICT, and I am sure that that is also true in other local authority areas. There are screensavers available that show pictures of Pembrokeshire, as in other counties and areas, I am sure. However, they are not being utilised. They could be used to market the area far more effectively.
Ceir anghysondeb ar hyn o bryd rhwng y rhai mewn awdurdod a’r rhai ag arbenigedd technegol. Rhaid mynd i’r afael â hynny. Yn aml, nid yw’r rhai a chanddynt y pŵer a’r gallu rheoli i ddatblygu a gweithredu strategaethau TGCh yn meddu ar yr arbenigedd technegol i’w darparu. Bu hyn yn amlwg yn natblygiad TGCh o fewn Cyngor Sir Penfro, ac yr wyf yn siŵr bod hynny’n wir am ardaloedd awdurdodau eraill. Mae arbedwyr sgrîn ar gael sydd yn dangos lluniau o Sir Benfro, fel mewn gwledydd ac ardaloedd eraill, yr wyf yn siŵr. Fodd bynnag, ni chânt eu defnyddio. Gellid eu defnyddio i farchnata’r ardal yn llawer mwy effeithiol.
I return to local tourism and economic and community development. The Minister for Assembly Business attended a presentation that I hosted a few months ago to launch Neyland Town Council’s website—the first example, as far as I am aware, of a community website. The website attracted over 4,000 hits during the first two weeks of its existence. That illustrates the potential of such websites. It has flagged up the existence of Neyland to the big wide world and offers the possibility of attracting tourism and benefiting the local economy. It also offers an opportunity for increased social and community cohesion. It has become, in effect, an electronic community newsletter that is constantly updated and added to. Other communities have expressed an interest in developing similar websites but, again, funding is the fundamental problem. I urge the Minister to explore all possible avenues for funding this exciting opportunity to develop our communities and their social and economic potential.
Dychwelaf at dwristiaeth leol a datblygu economaidd a chymunedol. Mynychodd y Trefnydd gyflwyniad a gynhaliais ychydig fisoedd yn ôl i lansio gwefan Cyngor Tref Neyland—yr enghraifft gyntaf, hyd y gwn, o wefan gymunedol. Denodd y wefan 4,000 o ymwelwyr yn ystod y pythefnos cyntaf. Dengys hynny bosibiliadau gwefannau o’r fath. Tynnodd sylw’r byd mawr at Neyland ac mae’n gyfle i ddenu twristiaid o bosibl ac i helpu’r economi leol. Rhydd gyfle hefyd ar gyfer mwy o gydlynu cymdeithasol a chymunedol. Daeth yn gylchlythyr cymunedol electronig i bob pwrpas, a gaiff ei ddiweddaru a’i ehangu’n barhaus. Mae cymunedau eraill wedi mynegi diddordeb mewn datblygu gwefannau tebyg ond, unwaith eto, arian yw’r broblem sylfaenol. Pwysaf ar y Trefnydd i ymchwilio i bob dull posibl o ariannu’r cyfle cyffrous hwn i ddatblygu ein cymunedau a’u potensial cymdeithasol ac economaidd.
Yr wyf yn falch bod y ddadl bwysig hon yn cael ei chynnal. Croesawaf yr ail bwynt yng nghynnig y Llywodraeth. Croesawaf hefyd y ffaith y bydd Andrew’n cefnogi’r gwelliannau a gyflwynwyd yn enw Jocelyn Davies, gan eu bod yn cyd-fynd â’r ail bwynt yn y cynnig.
I am pleased that this important debate is being held. I welcome the second point in the Government’s motion. I also welcome the fact that Andrew will support the amendments tabled in the name of Jocelyn Davies, as they are related to the second point of the motion.
Mae’n amlwg bod diffygion a thrafferthion annerbyniol yn bodoli yn isadeiledd technoleg Cymru ar hyn o bryd—hynny yw, yn y fframwaith band llydan. Rai misoedd yn ôl, ceisiodd nifer o Aelodau o ogledd Cymru weithredu ar ran cyflogwr pwysig yn yr ardal. Yr oedd y cwmni’n cwyno am y pris uchel yr oedd British Telecom yn ei godi i gysylltu â’r band llydan. Ers hynny, mae gwendidau sylfaenol wedi’u hamlygu, sy’n cadarnhau nad ydym yn mynd i’r afael o ddifrif â’r ddarpariaeth hon.
Clearly, there are unacceptable deficiencies and difficulties in the current technological infrastructure—that is, in the broadband framework. Some months ago, several Members from north Wales attempted to act on behalf of an important employer in the area. The company was complaining about the high price charged by British Telecom for connection to broadband. Since then, fundamental weaknesses have been exposed that confirm that we are not tackling this provision head-on.
Yn gyntaf, nid oes, hyd yn hyn, unrhyw gyd-ddealltwriaeth na chydlynedd, ac nid oes ychwaith awydd i ddatblygu rhwydwaith dibynadwy, hygyrch a chost-effeithiol i’r busnesau bach a chanolig eu maint sydd yn asgwrn cefn i economi canolbarth Cymru, a’r gogledd yn enwedig,. Cyfeirir at bosibiliadau defnyddio ceblau ar hyd yr A55. Er enghraifft, y Joint Academic Network a ddarperir gan golegau addysg bellach ac addysg uwch, ceblau British Telecom a Hyder. O ganlyniad i’r cymysgedd hwn, nid oes neges glir na nod bendant i greu rhwydwaith band llydan dan oruchwyliaeth a chyfarwyddyd y Cynulliad. Nid oes cynllun ystyrlon ar hyn o bryd. Oedi, dryswch a diffyg cyfeiriad sydd yn nodweddu’r holl brosiect hon.
First, there has not, to date, been any understanding or integration, nor has there been a desire to develop a reliable, accessible and cost-effective network for the small and medium-sized enterprises that are the backbone of the economy of mid Wales, and north Wales in particular. Reference is made to the possibility of using cables along the A55. For example, the Joint Academic Network, which is provided by further education and higher education colleges, British Telecom and Hyder cables. As a result of this confusion there is no clear message or objective for the creation of a broadband network under the supervision and direction of the Assembly. There is no meaningful plan at the moment. Delay, confusion and lack of direction characterise this whole project.
Y maen tramgwydd yw bod BT, fel y prif gwmni a’r unig gwmni sydd yn gweithio y tu allan i dde Cymru, i bob pwrpas, yn seilio’i bolisi o ddarparu a datblygu’r rhwydwaith allweddol hon yn unol â’r galw amdani. Mae’n adweithio yn hytrach na rhagweithio i ddatrys y broblem. Nid bai BT yw hynny. Agwedd amwys Llywodraeth Cymru sydd yn caniatáu i hynny ddigwydd.
The obstacle is that BT, as the main company and the only company working outside south Wales, to all intents and purposes, bases its policy of providing and developing this network on demand. It reacts rather than being proactive in solving the problem. That is not BT’s fault. Rather it is the ambiguous attitude of the Government of Wales that allows this to happen.
Yr wyf wedi methu ag argyhoeddi BT fod galw am y rhwydwaith yn bodoli. Byddai gosod ac ymestyn yr isadeiledd hwn nid yn unig yn creu sylfaen i bolisïau’r Cynulliad yng nghefn gwlad, ond yn cyfrannu’n gadarnhaol at newid pethau er gwell. Byddai’n atal y dirywiad cyson mewn gwasanaethau a’r colli swyddi sydd yn effeithio’r ardaloedd hynny ar hyn o bryd.
I have failed to convince BT that demand for the network exists. Establishing and extending this infrastructure would not only create a foundation for the Assembly’s policies in rural Wales, it would also contribute positively towards changing things for the better. It would prevent the constant decline in services and the job losses affecting those areas at present.
Yn eironig, defnyddiodd y gymuned amaethyddol systemau fideo-dechnoleg yn ddiweddar i geisio goresgyn problemau arwerthu da byw. Ni dderbyniodd y fenter gymeradwyaeth y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig, ond y mae’n profi’r angen i addasu a chymhwyso’r dechnoleg newydd.
Ironically, the agricultural community recently used the video-technology systems in an attempt to surmount the problems of selling livestock. This did not receive the Minister for Rural Affairs’ approval, but it proves the need to adapt and apply the new technology.
Mae’r Cynulliad eisoes yn awyddus i ddatblygu strategaeth ar gyfer addysg uwch, creu swyddi a hyrwyddo’r iaith Gymraeg a chyfle cyfartal. Ar hyn o bryd, mae methu â chael mynediad i band ystod llydan yn creu anghydraddoldeb digidol rhwng rhannau o Gymru a rhwng Cymru a gwledydd eraill Prydain a’r byd.
The Assembly has already shown that it is eager to develop a strategy for higher education, to create jobs and to promote the Welsh language and equal opportunity. At present, lack of access to broadband creates digital inequalities between parts of Wales and also between Wales and the other countries of Britain and the world.
Os yw’r Cynulliad o ddifrif am gyflwyno polisïau sydd yn mynd i warchod ein gwerthoedd fel cenedl, ac yn caniatáu i’n pobl gystadlu ac i’n busnesau ffynnu yn y farchnad fyd-eang, bydd yn rhaid i’r Cynulliad arwain yn hyn o beth. Byddai mabwysiadu holl welliannau Plaid Cymru yn gam cadarnhaol tuag at sicrhau hynny.
If the Assembly is serious about delivering policies to safeguard our values as a nation, and allow our people to compete and our companies to flourish in the global market, the Assembly will have to take a lead on this. Adopting all of Plaid Cymru’s amendments would be a positive first step towrds this.
Although I do not have a scientific background, I have taken an interest in new technology but always tried to retain a healthy scepticism rather than a Luddism which sometimes comes to the fore. It is important that we keep new technology in its context and remember that it is an important tool upon which the future of our economy, educational system and many other services that we provide depend. The cautionary tale is that of the North Western Trains whose new running stock has been taken out of service in north Wales as it cannot run in hot weather. That is an indication that sometimes new technology, important as it is, has its failings and can let us down. However, new technology has many advantages and the world is becoming much more computer literate.
Er nad oes gennyf gefndir gwyddonol, yr wyf wedi ymddiddori mewn technoleg newydd. Serch hynny, yr wyf bob amser wedi ceisio arddel sgeptiaeth iach yn hytrach na’r duedd Ludaidd sydd weithiau yn dod i’r amlwg. Mae’n bwysig inni gadw technoleg newydd yn ei chyd-destun ac inni gofio ei bod yn arf pwysig ar gyfer adeiladu ein heconomi, ein system addysgol a llawer o wasanaethau eraill y dibynnwn arnynt yn y dyfodol. Cawn rybudd yn hanes North Western Trains, a fu’n gorfod atal eu trenau newydd rhag gwasanaethu yng ngogledd Cymru am na allant redeg mewn tywydd poeth. Mae hynny’n arwydd bod gan dechnoleg newydd ei gwendidau weithiau a gall ein siomi. Fodd bynnag, mae gan dechnoleg newydd nifer o fanteision ac mae’r byd yn dod yn fwy hyddysg mewn cyfrifiaduron.
I have been astonished in recent years at how quickly the whole internet and computer-based technology has advanced in the UK and throughout the world. There are many more countries on-line. In order to compete in the worldwide information economy, we need to address this issue and ensure that we are in a position to do so. We are proud that the Assembly is one of the most electronically advanced democracies in the world. It has been said that Canada has a slightly more advanced system than we do in many ways, but we are highly advanced. Many Members have their own websites and we are communicating what we are doing in an effective way. The problem is that many people in Wales are not keeping up with us. Many of the average voters on the street ask how they can access the Assembly’s documents or the record of proceedings. You tell them that they are available on the internet and they say that they do not have access to the internet. When you explain that they could access the internet in their local library, they say that they are unable to use the technology. There is work to be done in training people to use technology and raising their awareness of it, if only to make our own electronically-advanced democracy more effective and to get our message across to the people of Wales.
Fe’m synnwyd yn ystod y blynyddoedd diwethaf ynglŷn â pha mor gyflym y datblygodd yr holl dechnoleg sydd yn seiliedig ar y rhyngrwyd a chyfrifiaduron yn y DU a ledled y byd. Mae llawer mwy o wledydd ar-lein. Er mwyn cystadlu mewn economi wybodaeth fyd-eang, mae angen inni fynd i’r afael â’r mater hwn a sicrhau ein bod mewn sefyllfa i wneud hynny. Ymfalchïwn yn y ffaith bod y Cynulliad ymhlith y sefydliadau democrataidd mwyaf datblygedig yn electronig yn y byd. Dywedwyd bod y system yng Nghanada ychydig yn fwy datblygedig na’r hyn sydd gennym ni ar sawl agwedd, ond mae gennym system ddatblygedig iawn. Mae gan lawer o’r Aelodau eu gwefannau eu hunain ac yr ydym yn cyfleu’r hyn a wnawn yn effeithiol. Y broblem yw nad yw llawer o bobl yng Nghymru yr un mor gyfredol â ni. Mae llawer o’r etholwyr cyffredin ar y stryd yn gofyn sut y gallant gael gafael ar ddogfennau neu gofnod trafodion y Cynulliad. Dywedwch wrthynt eu bod ar gael ar y rhyngrwyd a dywedant nad oes ganddynt fynediad i’r rhyngrwyd. Pan esboniwch y gallant gael mynediad i’r rhyngrwyd yn eu llyfrgell leol, dywedant nad ydynt yn gallu defnyddio’r dechnoleg. Mae gwaith i’w wneud i hyfforddi pobl i ddefnyddio technoleg a chodi eu hymwybyddiaeth ohoni, pe bai hynny ond er mwyn sicrhau bod ein democratiaeth ddatblygedig electronig yn fwy effeithiol a bod pobl Cymru yn clywed ein neges.
We need to ensure that Wales does not suffer from an ICT digital divide, which contributes to social exclusion. There is a digital divide, particularly in rural Wales, and we need to ensure that we do not get left behind in terms of technology. ICT has a key role to play in the improvement of pupils’ achievements. It is also valuable in overcoming isolation and distance for rural schools. We need to address that and put in place initiatives, so that teachers are in a position to maximise ICT potential for their pupils. The web needs to play a key role and be an integral part of school life and the curriculum to help enhance pupils’ performance.
Mae angen inni sicrhau na fydd Cymru yn dioddef oherwydd rhaniad digidol TGCh, sydd yn cyfrannu at allgáu cymdeithasol. Mae rhaniad digidol yn bod, yn enwedig yng Nghymru wledig, ac mae angen inni sicrhau nad ydym ar ei hôl hi o ran technoleg. Mae gan TGCh rôl allweddol i’w chwarae i wella cyflawniadau disgyblion. Mae hefyd yn werthfawr i oresgyn natur ynysig a phellennig ysgolion gwledig. Mae angen inni fynd i’r afael â hynny a rhoi mentrau ar waith, er mwyn bod athrawon mewn sefyllfa i fanteisio’n llawn ar bosibiliadau TGCh i’w disgyblion. Mae angen i’r we chwarae rôl allweddol a bod yn rhan annatod o fywyd ysgol a’r cwricwlwm er mwyn helpu i wella perfformiad disgyblion.
I know that there are many initiatives on ICT in schools involving the establishment of a policy advisory committee, an information and communications technology taskforce, the national grid for learning Wales team, an innovative initiative fund and many others, which have already been implemented by the Assembly. They are to be welcomed. At the same time, we need to address the skills gap that exists among teachers. Many of them belong to an older generation, who share a suspicion of new technology and need help to teach pupils who can often run rings around them in terms of using technology.
Gwn fod llawer o fentrau ar TGCh ar waith mewn ysgolion gan gynnwys sefydlu pwyllgor polisi ymgynghorol, tasglu technoleg gwybodaeth a chyfathrebu, tîm grid cenedlaethol ar gyfer dysgu Cymru, cronfa mentrau dyfeisgar a llawer o fentrau eraill, a roddwyd ar waith eisoes gan y Cynulliad. Rhaid eu croesawu. Ar yr un pryd, mae angen inni fynd i’r afael â’r bwlch sgiliau sydd yn bodoli ymhlith athrawon. Mae llawer ohonynt yn perthyn i’r to hŷn, sydd yn amheus o dechnoleg newydd ac mae angen cymorth arnynt i ddysgu disgyblion sydd yn aml yn llawer mwy meistrolgar o ran defnyddio technoleg.
When I tried to set up my own website, I was astonished to find 11 and 12-year-olds who could set up a website in a matter of hours. I struggled and had to get help. That is a lesson for us all. The younger generation is way ahead of us in terms of technology. We need to ensure that we can harness those skills and maximise the capacity that that offers to Wales and its economy.
Pan geisiais sefydlu fy ngwefan fy hun, fe’m syfrdanwyd i ganfod y gallai plant 11 a 12 oed sefydlu gwefan mewn ychydig oriau. Cefais anhawster i wneud hynny a bu’n rhaid imi geisio cymorth. Mae hynny’n wers inni oll. Mae’r to ifanc ar y blaen inni o dipyn o ran technoleg. Mae angen inni sicrhau y gallwn reoli’r sgiliau hynny a gwneud y defnydd gorau o’r gallu a gynigir i Gymru a’i heconomi.
I welcome all the initiatives that have been put in place in relation to education and lifelong learning. For example, £18 million has been allocated to the national grid for learning initiative and a reduction will be given to all ICT-related courses, where an individual learning account is introduced. Other initiatives include the Wales Digital College and online learning through television sets. The BBC, in particular, has given demonstrations about how the web and internet are becoming increasingly available through television sets. Once that is in place, we will have greater awareness of the internet and greater access to it. We will find that people will use it for online shopping. We will have to address the many problems that that brings, particularly in terms of pollution with lorries rushing around delivering goods that have been ordered from computers.
Croesawaf yr holl fentrau a roddwyd ar waith mewn perthynas ag addysg a dysgu gydol oes. Er enghraifft, dyrannwyd £18 miliwn i fenter y grid cenedlaethol ar gyfer dysgu a chynigir pris gostyngol am bob cwrs sydd yn ymwneud â TGCh, lle y cyflwynir cyfrif dysgu unigol. Ymhlith y mentrau eraill mae Coleg Digidol Cymru a dysgu ar-lein drwy setiau teledu. Mae’r BBC, yn enwedig, wedi arddangos sut y mae’r we a’r rhyngrwyd yn dod yn fwyfwy hygyrch drwy setiau teledu. Unwaith y bydd hynny wedi ei roi ar waith, bydd gennym fwy o ymwybyddiaeth o’r rhyngrwyd a mwy o fynediad iddo. Byddwn yn canfod y bydd pobl yn ei ddefnyddio i siopa ar-lein. Bydd angen inni fynd i’r afael â’r problemau lu a ddaw yn sgîl hynny, yn enwedig o ran llygredd wrth i lorïau wibio yma a thraw yn dosbarthu nwyddau a archebwyd drwy’r cyfrifiadur.
This is an opportunity—but we must maintain a healthy scepticism—to ensure that the many parts of Wales that struggle to keep up, particularly the rural parts, are kept in touch with the massive advances that technology is making in helping us and the Welsh economy to move forward.
Mae hwn yn gyfle—ond rhaid inni gadw sgeptiaeth iach—i sicrhau bod y rhannau niferus o Gymru a gaiff anhawster i fynd i’r afael â’r datblygiadau diweddaraf, yn enwedig y rhannau gwledig, yn cael yr wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am y datblygiadau enfawr ym maes technoleg sydd yn ein helpu ni ac economi Cymru i symud ymlaen.
I welcome this debate. I see it as an extension of our debate on the review of ICT in education, which was researched and compiled by the Education and Lifelong Learning Committee. I stress the importance of that report and how it fits in with the rural ICT strategy, which the Government is pursuing.
Croesawaf y ddadl hon. Fe’i gwelaf yn estyniad i’n dadl ar yr adolygiad o TGCh mewn addysg, y bu’r Pwyllgor Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes yn ymchwilio iddo ac yn ei lunio. Pwysleisiaf bwysigrwydd yr adroddiad hwnnw a’r modd y mae’n cydweddu â’r strategaeth TGCh wledig, a ddatblygir gan y Llywodraeth.
On a lighter note, I congratulate Peter Black for not mentioning the partnership Government. With all due respect to the Government, this is one of the few policies—if not the only policy—that it has pursued, which does not involve linkage or support from the Liberal Democrats as the junior partner in the Government. This has been a cross-party policy, undertaken by a Labour member and myself, as a Conservative. Perhaps a new coalition exists—in committee, at least.
Ar nodyn ysgafnach, llongyfarchaf Peter Black am beidio â sôn am y Llywodraeth bartneriaeth. Gyda phob parch i’r Llywodraeth, mae hwn yn un o’r ychydig bolisïau—os nad yr unig bolisi—a ddatblygwyd, lle nad oes angen cyswllt â’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol na chefnogaeth ganddynt fel partner iau y Llywodraeth. Bu hwn yn bolisi trawsbleidiol, yr ymgymerwyd ag ef gan aelod Llafur a minnau, fel Ceidwadwr. Efallai bod clymblaid newydd yn bodoli—yn y pwyllgor o leiaf.
I congratulate Peter Black on his comments about schools. We should underline the importance of delivering this strategy from schools’ point of view, because they can provide the building blocks and foundations for delivering an ICT strategy. If we can provide children with skills at an early age, and build upon those skills through the process of lifelong learning throughout adulthood, they will have the skills and ability to use new technology as and when it becomes available.
Llongyfarchaf Peter Black am ei sylwadau ar ysgolion. Dylem bwysleisio pa mor bwysig yw cyflwyno’r strategaeth hon o safbwynt ysgolion, gan y gallant ddarparu’r sylfeini i gyflawni strategaeth TGCh. Os gallwn roi sgiliau i blant yn gynnar, a meithrin y sgiliau hynny drwy’r broses o ddysgu gydol oes pan fyddant yn oedolion, bydd ganddynt y sgiliau a’r gallu i ddefnyddio technoleg newydd wrth iddi ddod i law.
I raise several points in relation to schools. First, I issue a warning to the Government on schools funding. Funding has been made available for the ICT in schools strategy. That funding must be long-term. It is not a quick-fix solution. The problem will not be solved in one, two or three financial years. We must have a long-term funding solution, through the various partnerships and organisations that will be key to delivering the strategy. Funding will be crucial to delivering the strategy in schools.
Codaf sawl pwynt mewn perthynas ag ysgolion. Yn gyntaf, rhybuddiaf y Llywodraeth ynglŷn ag arian i ysgolion. Darparwyd arian ar gyfer strategaeth TGCh mewn ysgolion. Rhaid i’r arian hwnnw fod yn arian hirdymor. Nid yw’n ateb hawdd. Ni chaiff y broblem ei datrys ymhen un flwyddyn ariannol, neu ddwy neu dair. Rhaid inni gael ateb hirdymor i ariannu, drwy’r gwahanol bartneriaethau a sefydliadau a fydd yn allweddol i gyflwyno’r strategaeth. Bydd arian yn hollbwysig i gyflwyno’r strategaeth mewn ysgolion.
Secondly, on teacher training, we have said before that it is all very well to kit out classrooms and making ongoing investment in new technology but, unless we have teachers who are adequately trained and have the skills to use the technology, it will all be a waste of time. Peter Black discussed the prospect of using technology to deliver key aspects of education and training. We know that the curriculum can be delivered through ICT. We have seen that happen in Scotland, through the use of on-line and CD-ROM curriculum materials. However, that information and technology cannot be used in schools unless teachers themselves are able to use it.
Yn ail, o ran hyfforddi athrawon, dywedasom o’r blaen mai gwastraff amser fyddai rhoi offer mewn dosbarthiadau a gwneud buddsoddiad parhaus mewn technoleg newydd oni fyddai gennym yr athrawon sydd wedi’u hyfforddi’n ddigonol ac sydd yn meddu ar y sgiliau i ddefnyddio’r dechnoleg. Trafododd Peter Black y posibilrwydd o ddefnyddio technoleg i gyflwyno agweddau allweddol ar addysg a hyfforddiant. Gwyddom y gellir cyflwyno’r cwricwlwm drwy TGCh. Gwelsom hynny’n digwydd eisoes yn yr Alban, drwy ddefnyddio deunyddiau cwricwlwm ar-lein a CD-ROM. Fodd bynnag, ni ellir defnyddio’r wybodaeth a’r dechnoleg honno mewn ysgolion oni fydd yr athrawon eu hunain yn gallu ei defnyddio.
We have previously talked about using the new opportunities funding to train teachers. However, that is a one-off. We must consider a rolling programme of teacher training. That is not merely for one, two or three years, but goes beyond that. A junior teacher, who may be embarking upon a 25-year career in the teaching profession, must have access to a rolling programme of training, as and when the technology becomes available, is upgraded or developed. Teachers must have the necessary skills to do the job.
Soniwyd o’r blaen am fachu ar y cyfleoedd ariannu newydd i hyfforddi athrawon. Fodd bynnag, rhywbeth fydd yn digwydd unwaith yn unig yw hynny. Rhaid inni ystyried rhaglen dreigl o hyfforddiant i athrawon, a fydd nid yn unig yn parhau am flwyddyn, neu ddwy neu dair, ond un a fydd yn mynd y tu hwnt i hynny. Rhaid i athro neu athrawes iau, sydd yn dechrau ar yrfa o 25 mlynedd o bosibl yn y proffesiwn, gael mynediad i raglen dreigl o hyfforddiant wrth i dechnoleg ddod i law, wrth iddi gael ei diweddaru neu’i datblygu. Rhaid bod athrawon yn meddu ar y sgiliau sydd eu hangen i wneud y gwaith.
If we get this right in Wales, we could outstrip England in ICT skills. That would be a tremendous achievement for us as a nation. We know that England is investing a higher proportion of funds in ICT skills and delivery per pupil than Wales is. However, if we were to channel the money through the strategy in the way in which we expect, then ICT skills in Wales could outstrip those across the border.
Os llwyddwn yn hynny o beth yng Nghymru, gallem ragori ar Loegr o ran sgiliau TGCh. Byddai hynny’n gyflawniad gwych inni fel cenedl. Gwyddom fod Lloegr yn buddsoddi cyfran uwch o arian fesul disgybl na Chymru mewn sgiliau TGCh a’u cyflwyniad. Fodd bynnag, pe baem yn sianelu’r arian drwy’r strategaeth yn y ffordd a ddisgwyliwn, yna gallai sgiliau TGCh yng Nghymru ragori ar y sgiliau dros Glawdd Offa.
Yesterday, Alun Cairns and I visited Penweddig Comprehensive School in Aberystwyth, which was built through a private finance initiative scheme. Some Members are not completely happy with that scheme. However, through a public-private partnership, a modern school has been constructed according to what the headteacher and the staff thought necessary to deliver education. It was fascinating to see how the school was installing the relevant technological equipment for ICT delivery. The people who contributed to the ICT in schools debate will remember that we discussed moving away from ICT suites, and placing a greater emphasis on classrooms. This comprehensive school does both. It has ICT suites as learning resource centres, as well as ICT in the classrooms. It provides ICT bays in the classroom for children to use. There are huge opportunities for this school. It underlines the clear need for the public sector to engage with the private sector. We must engage with the private sector if we are to ensure that this system works, and that ICT is in classrooms in schools and in the community.
Ddoe, ymwelodd Alun Cairns a minnau ag Ysgol Gyfun Penweddig yn Aberystwyth, a adeiladwyd drwy gynllun menter cyllid preifat. Nid yw rhai Aelodau yn gwbl fodlon ar y cynllun hwnnw. Fodd bynnag, drwy bartneriaeth cyhoeddus-preifat, adeiladwyd ysgol fodern, yn unol â’r hyn a oedd ei angen i gyflwyno addysg ym marn y pennaeth a’r staff. Yr oedd yn ddiddorol tu hwnt gweld sut yr oedd yr ysgol yn gosod yr offer technolegol perthnasol er mwyn darparu TGCh. Bydd y bobl a gyfrannodd at y ddadl ar TGCh mewn ysgolion yn cofio inni drafod symud i ffwrdd o’r syniad o ystafelloedd TGCh, gan roi mwy o bwyslais ar ystafelloedd dosbarth. Mae’r ysgol gyfun hon yn gwneud y ddau. Mae ganddi ystafelloedd TGCh fel canolfannau adnoddau dysgu, yn ogystal â TGCh yn yr ystafelloedd dosbarth. Darperir mannau TGCh yn yr ystafell ddosbarth i’r plant eu defnyddio. Mae gan yr ysgol hon gyfleoedd gwych. Mae’n tanlinellu’r ffaith bod angen pendant i’r sector cyhoeddus gysylltu â’r sector preifat. Rhaid inni gysylltu â’r sector preifat er mwyn inni sicrhau bod y system hon yn gweithio, a bod TGCh ar gael mewn ystafelloedd dosbarth mewn ysgolion ac yn y gymuned.
In conclusion, huge inequalities exist. Through this strategy, we have a chance to resolve those inequalities in the future.
I gloi, ceir anghydraddoldebau mawr. Drwy’r strategaeth hon, cawn gyfle i unioni’r anghydraddoldebau hynny yn y dyfodol.
There is a consensus that ICT is important. However, Peter Black, in true Liberal Democrat fashion, is simultaneously supportive of and sceptical about ICT. ICT enables knowledgeable societies. It creates a level playing field for information, allowing social and intellectual inclusion and a chance to compete on an equal basis on the global playing field. The weapon that will enable Wales to be on a par with the rest of the world for the global game is broadband technology. In terms of creating a knowledge-based economy in Wales, ICT infrastructure is the tool to redress the GDP inequality from which Wales suffers. We now have a real chance to compete on a global scale with ICT, but we need the infrastructure to stimulate the development of businesses and the skills of the workforce. Broadband is the key to the development of a future-proof ICT infrastructure. Today’s world-wide web is not the endgame. Access to the web is not ubiquitous and the existing access delivers a limited quantity of information with delays. Wales must not simply get connected, it must get broadband connected. Narrowband or mid band connectivity through drop-in centres and libraries, as suggested in the Westminster White Paper, is not enough. Truly connected societies will be broadband connected societies. This means information transfer at two megabits per second or above to support multiple, fully interactive services in every home or business. Are you having difficulty in understanding this Andrew?
Mae pawb yn gytûn bod TGCh yn bwysig. Fodd bynnag, mae Peter Black, megis gwir Ddemocrat Rhyddfrydol, wedi cefnogi TGCh ac wedi ei hamau ar yr un pryd. Mae TGCh yn galluogi cymdeithasau hyddysg. Mae’n rhoi tegwch o ran gwybodaeth, gan ganiatáu cynhwysedd cymdeithasol a deallusol a chyfle i gystadlu ar sail gyfartal ledled y byd. Technoleg band llydan yw’r arf a fydd yn galluogi Cymru i gystadlu â gweddill y byd. O ran creu economi yn seiliedig ar wybodaeth yng Nghymru, seilwaith TGCh yw’r arf i unioni’r anghydraddoldeb o ran CMC yng Nghymru. Bellach mae gennym gyfle gwirioneddol i gystadlu yn fyd-eang gyda TGCh, ond mae angen y seilwaith arnom i symbylu datblygiad busnesau a sgiliau’r gweithlu. Darpariaeth band llydan yw’r allwedd i ddatblygu seilwaith TGCh yn y dyfodol. Nid gwefan fyd-eang heddiw yw diwedd y gân. Nid yw mynediad i’r we ar gael i bawb a chyfyngedig yw’r wybodaeth a roddir drwy’r mynediad cyfredol ar unrhyw adeg a hynny gydag oedi. Rhaid i Gymru nid yn unig gysylltu, rhaid iddi gael cysylltiadau band llydan. Nid yw cysylltiadau band cul neu fand canol drwy ganolfannau galw heibio a llyfrgelloedd, fel yr awgrymwyd ym Mhapur Gwyn San Steffan, yn ddigon. Bydd cymdeithasau sydd yn wir gysylltiedig yn gymdeithasau â chysylltiadau band llydan. Golyga hyn drosglwyddo gwybodaeth ar ddau fegabit yr eiliad neu fwy er mwyn cynnal aml-wasanaethau cwbl ryngweithiol ym mhob cartref a busnes. A ydych yn cael anhawster i ddeall hyn Andrew?
I welcome the fact that Andrew will support our amendment 2 on broadband bandwidth. However, you must understand, Andrew, that the breadth of the band, as well as its quality, is important. If you understood that, perhaps you would understand the reason for our tabling that amendment. That issue is not covered in the strategy document.
Croesawaf y ffaith y bydd Andrew yn cefnogi ein gwelliant 2 ynglŷn ag ystod band llydan. Fodd bynnag, rhaid ichi ddeall, Andrew, fod ystod y band, yn ogystal â’i ansawdd, yn bwysig. Os deallasoch hynny, efallai y byddech yn deall pam ein bod wedi cyflwyno’r gwelliant hwnnw. Ni chwmpesir y mater hwnnw yn y ddogfen strategaeth.
Jocelyn Davies and I had an opportunity recently to meet with Huw Price-Stephens, the chief technology officer at Yes Television that has its headquarters in Wales next to the Assembly building. Yes Television has developed an interactive television service for broadband networks, which uses web technology to deliver fully interactive content to a normal television via a broadband-enabled network. It is at the true point of convergence between the web and television, and the software, network and content development and aggregation skills involved are unique on a global basis. No-one else, anywhere in the world, is doing this. That is happening on our doorstep.
Cafodd Jocelyn Davies a minnau gyfle i gyfarfod â Huw Price-Stephens yn ddiweddar, sef prif swyddog technoleg Yes Television, y mae ei bencadlys yng Nghymru y drws nesaf i adeilad y Cynulliad. Mae Yes Television wedi datblygu gwasanaeth teledu rhyngweithiol ar gyfer rhwydweithiau band llydan, sydd yn defnyddio technoleg y we i ddarparu cynnwys cwbl rhyngweithiol ar gyfer set deledu arferol drwy rwydwaith a alluogir gan fand llydan. Dyna’r man gwirioneddol lle y bydd y we a theledu yn cydgyfarfod, ac mae’r sgiliau o ran meddalwedd, datblygu rhwydweithiau a chynnwys a chydgrynhoi yn unigryw yn y byd. Nid oes unrhyw un, mewn unrhyw le arall yn y byd, yn gwneud hyn. Mae hynny yn digwydd ar garreg ein drws.
Yes Television is a leading broadband player in Wales. It is not just talking about broadband, it is an established and viable commercial business, developing a fully interactive television service for broadband networks. It is one of only a handful of broadband catalyst companies world wide. Huw Price-Stephens spoke recently at the Cardiff communications summit, which was held a month ago today. In his address to the television regulators, he challenged the Independent Television Commission, OFTEL, the Broadcasting Standards Commission and others on the fact that the White Paper does not emphasise the importance of broadband to the future success of society. Huw quoted an Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development survey, published in the Financial Times on 1 June, on internet access via broadband networks, in which the UK came twenty-fourth out of the 27 countries included. Wales needs to ensure that our benchmark is not the UK, but countries such as Korea, Japan, Canada, Sweden and Australia, which have accepted the importance of broadband to their country’s wellbeing. The goal is that, within 10 years, the children of Wales will be as comfortable with a knowledge-based world as the children of these countries, who live in the ICT world in their homes, schools and culture. Wales will then become a country that walks the walk, as well as talking the talk in terms of ICT.
Mae Yes Television yn gwmni band llydan blaenllaw yng Nghymru. Nid sôn am fand llydan yn unig y mae. Busnes masnachol sefydliedig a hyfyw ydyw, sydd yn datblygu gwasanaeth teledu cwbl ryngweithiol. Mae ymhlith yr ychydig gwmnïau ysgogi yn y byd ym maes band llydan. Anerchodd Huw Price-Stephens yr uwch gynhadledd ddiweddar ar gyfathrebu a gynhaliwyd yng Nghaerdydd fis yn ôl i heddiw. Yn ei anerchiad i reoleiddwyr y byd teledu, heriodd y Comisiwn Teledu Annibynnol, OFTEL, y Comisiwn Safonau Darlledu ac eraill am y ffaith nad yw’r Papur Gwyn yn pwysleisio pwysigrwydd darpariaeth band llydan i lwyddiant cymdeithas yn y dyfodol. Dyfynnodd Huw o arolwg gan y Sefydliad dros Gydweithredu a Datblygu Economaidd, a gyhoeddwyd yn y Financial Times ar 1 Mehefin, sef arolwg o fynediad i’r rhyngrwyd drwy rwydweithiau band llydan, lle yr oedd y DU ar safle 24 o blith y 27 o’r gwledydd a gynhwyswyd. Mae angen i Gymru sicrhau nad y DU yw ein meincnod, ond gwledydd megis Korea, Siapan, Canada, Sweden ac Awstralia, sydd wedi derbyn pa mor bwysig yw darpariaeth band llydan i les eu gwlad. Y nod yw, ymhen 10 mlynedd, y bydd plant Cymru yr un mor gyfforddus gyda byd yn seiliedig ar wybodaeth â phlant y gwledydd hyn, sydd yn byw ym myd TGCh yn eu cartrefi, ysgolion a diwylliant. Yna daw Cymru yn wlad sydd yn gweithredu o ddifrif ym maes TGCh, yn ogystal â siarad amdani.
How do we get there? Yes Television is at the forefront of the development of broadband services with its interactive television service. In five years, there will be more broadband networks that will allow fully interactive and better quality entertainment, information, education and video communication, including television-grade video. It is important that everybody in Wales has access to such technology from their homes, as through drop-in centres, via personal computer digital tablets or whatever other device you care to mention. These are expensive, but Yes Television offers access to this quality information via the one piece of equipment that we all have, regardless of our location or socio-economic status—a television.
Sut y cyrhaeddwn y nod hwnnw? Mae Yes Television ar flaen y gad o ran datblygu gwasanaethau band llydan drwy ei wasanaeth teledu rhyngweithiol. Ymhen pum mlynedd, bydd rhagor o rwydweithiau band llydan a fydd yn galluogi cyfathrebu cwbl ryngweithiol ac o ansawdd gwell ym meysydd adloniant, gwybodaeth, addysg a fideo, gan gynnwys fideo gradd teledu. Mae’n bwysig i bawb yng Nghymru gael mynediad i dechnoleg o’r fath yn eu cartrefi, fel gyda chanolfannau galw heibio, drwy dabledi digidol cyfrifiaduron personol neu pa fodd bynnag arall yr hoffech sôn amdano. Mae’r rhain yn gostus, ond mae Yes Television yn cynnig mynediad i wybodaeth o ansawdd drwy’r un teclyn sydd gan bob un ohonom, waeth beth fo ein lleoliad neu’r statws economaidd-gymdeithasol—sef y set deledu.
Yes Television does not have all the answers. In one sense, it is the one-eyed man in a land of blind people. Broadband needs champions. It offers a virtual road to link rural communities and cities to the rest of the world, giving every person in Wales the chance, wherever they live, to stand on the level playing field that ICT can enable. Wales should aspire to be a global showcase for broadband networks and to deliver the opportunity for future generations to adopt a high position in the pack of countries that lead the knowledge-based world. Wales is uniquely positioned in the UK and Europe to pursue these initiatives. It can make this happen through companies such as Yes Television.
Nid oes gan Yes Television bob ateb. Ar un ystyr, tywysog unllygeidiog yng ngwlad y deillion ydyw. Mae angen arloeswyr ar fand llydan. Cynigia ffordd rithwir o gysylltu cymunedau gwledig a dinasoedd â gweddill y byd, gan roi cyfle i bob person yng Nghymru, lle bynnag y bônt yn byw, i gael y tegwch y gall TGCh ei sicrhau. Dylai Cymru anelu at fod yn esiampl fyd-eang o rwydweithiau band llydan a rhoi’r cyfle i genedlaethau’r dyfodol sicrhau safle uchel yn y grŵp o wledydd sydd yn arwain y byd sydd yn seiliedig ar wybodaeth. Mae Cymru mewn sefyllfa unigryw yn y DU ac Ewrop i ddatblygu’r mentrau hyn. Mae’n gallu sicrhau bod hyn yn digwydd drwy gwmnïau megis Yes Television.
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 61
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 61
Order.
Trefn.
It can create an information—
Gall greu gwybodaeth—
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 61
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 61
Order. Just because you do not look up from your notes does not mean that you cannot hear me.
Trefn. Nid yw’r ffaith nad ydych yn codi’ch pen o’ch nodiadau yn golygu na allwch fy nghlywed.
I was trying to avoid catching your eye.
Yr oeddwn yn ceisio osgoi dal eich llygad.
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 61
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 61
You have had six minutes and 14 seconds, so please wind up.
Yr ydych wedi cael chwe munud a 14 eiliad, felly a wnewch chi ddirwyn i ben?
Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in Welsh and English p. 61
Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 61
It was a good six minutes and 14 seconds. As I have gone to the trouble of writing the speech, I may as well go to the trouble of reading it.
yn Saesneg Bu’n chwe munud a 14 eiliad da. Gan imi ymdrafferthu i ysgrifennu araith, cystal imi ymdrafferthu i’w darllen.
Mae gennyf un cwestiwn i orffen, Andrew. Efallai eich bod yn cael trafferth â’r iaith yn ogystal â’r termau technegol. Yr ydych wedi sôn am y Gymraeg yn gyffredinol. Beth yw lle’r Gymraeg yn yr hyn y bydd y Cynulliad yn ei ddarparu? A ydych o ddifrif ynglŷn â darparu’r gwasanaeth hwn yn y Gymraeg ar bob ystod?
in Welsh I have one question to finish, Andrew. Perhaps you are having problems with the language as well as the technical terms. You have mentioned the Welsh language generally. Where does the Welsh language fit into the Assembly’s provision? Are you serious about providing this service in Welsh across the board?
Even though I have indicated that we will support Plaid Cymru’s amendments, that is clearly not sufficient for it. It still feels that it has to whinge for Wales as usual. I can see that Rhodri Glyn can read his briefing, but I question whether he understands what he is reading.
Er imi nodi y byddwn yn cefnogi gwelliannau Plaid Cymru, mae’n amlwg nad yw hynny’n ddigon iddi. Teimla o hyd fod yn rhaid iddi gwyno dros Gymru yn ôl ei harfer. Gallaf weld bod Rhodri Glyn yn gallu darllen ei bapur briffio hefyd, ond mae’n amheus gennyf a yw’n deall yr hyn y mae’n ei ddarllen.
Cymru Ar-lein—Online for a Better Wales is about the Assembly and the Assembly Cabinet taking a lead. That is why I was rather perplexed at William Graham’s comments about the Cabinet not being joined up. All my Cabinet colleagues and officials are fully signed up to this strategy, because it is all encompassing. As I said in my introduction, this is a cross-cutting issue, which is why we will support William Graham’s amendment 1 on access and equality of opportunity. We are committed to tackling social exclusion and accessibility.
Mae Cymru Ar-lein—Online for a Better Wales yn golygu bod y Cynulliad a Chabinet y Cynulliad yn cymryd yr awenau. Dyna pam bod sylwadau William Graham ynglŷn â’r Cabinet a’r ffaith nad yw’n ymrwymedig yn peri dryswch imi. Mae fy nghyd-Aelodau yn y Cabinet a’r swyddogion yn gwbl ymrwymedig i’r strategaeth hon, am ei bod yn holl gynhwysol. Fel y dywedais yn fy nghyflwyniad, mae hwn yn fater trawsbynciol a dyma pam y cefnogwn welliant 1 William Graham ar fynediad a chyfle cyfartal. Yr ydym yn ymrwymedig i fynd i’r afael ag allgáu cymdeithasol a hygyrchedd.
I am amazed that Phil says that Llwybr/Pathway is not mentioned. I launched two Llwybr/Pathway projects at the Royal Welsh Agricultural Show last year—one, the multi agency rural network, was about delivering broadband through the use of microwave technology. In fact, the document makes many references to Llwybr/Pathway.
Fe’m syfrdanwyd i glywed Phil yn dweud na sonnir am Lwybr/Pathway. Lansiais ddau brosiect Llwybr/Pathway yn Sioe Frenhinol Amaethyddol Cymru y llynedd—yr oedd un, y rhwydwaith gwledig amlasiantaeth, yn ymwneud â darparu band llydan drwy ddefnyddio technoleg microdon. Yn wir, cyfeiria’r ddogfen droeon at Lwybr/Pathway.
Gareth Jones a gododd—
Gareth Jones rose—
I am sorry, Gareth, I will not take any interventions, because I only have a few minutes left.
Mae’n ddrwg gennyf, Gareth, ni dderbyniaf unrhyw ymyriad, am mai ychydig funudau yn unig sydd gennyf ar ôl.
It is also about looking at possibly making broadband available through wireless technology. We are considering proposals for that. We should consider small community delivery, as they have done in Keokuk, Iowa. We are also considering the possibility of delivering broadband through satellite. We must not get hung up on the idea that it has to be delivered through fibre. We need to be flexible and, where appropriate, deliver broadband through a variety of delivery platforms and mechanisms.
Mae hefyd yn ymwneud ag ymchwilio i’r posibiliadau o ddarparu band llydan drwy dechnoleg ddi-wifr. Yr ydym yn ystyried cynigion ar gyfer hynny. Dylem ystyried ei ddarparu o fewn cymunedau bychain, fel y gwnaethant yn Keokuk, Iowa. Yr ydym hefyd yn ystyried y posibilrwydd o ddarparu band llydan drwy loeren. Rhaid inni beidio â meddwl bod yn rhaid ei darparu drwy ffeibr yn unig. Mae angen inni fod yn hyblyg a, lle y bo’n briodol, ddarparu band llydan drwy amrywiaeth o lwyfannau a dulliau o ddarparu.
The other point is that this is very much action orientated. Many points have been made about the delivery of broadband, particularly for small companies. I recently had a presentation from the Welsh Development Agency on the analysis report about the provision of broadband in Wales. Commissioned by the WDA, that report will be taken forward jointly by the WDA, as our agency, and the Assembly, with my colleagues and myself taking a lead on that. We will come forward with an action plan about how we can assure that companies in Wales are not disadvantaged.
Y pwynt arall yw bod hyn yn ymwneud â gweithredu i raddau helaeth. Gwnaethpwyd llawer o bwyntiau ynglŷn â darparu band llydan, yn enwedig ar gyfer cwmnïau bach. Rhoddodd Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru gyflwyniad imi yn ddiweddar ar yr adroddiad dadansoddi ar ddarparu band llydan yng Nghymru. Wedi ei gomisiynu gan y WDA, gweithredir ar yr adroddiad ar y cyd gyda’r WDA, fel ein hasiantaeth, a’r Cynulliad, gyda’m cyd-Aelodau a minnau yn cymryd yr awenau ar hynny. Byddwn yn cyflwyno cynllun gweithredu ar sut y gallwn sicrhau nad yw cwmnïau yng Nghymru o dan anfantais.
Therefore, it is not true that this document is mere words; it encompasses important action points and we are fully committed to them. It is not true to say that there is no integrated planning, nor bringing on board the delivery of broadband and the other issues raised. That is why we are talking about aggregating public demand for telecommunications in Wales. That is why I established the public sector network, to examine how we can get the public sector to work together. Whether it is between one party and another or many parties, this is about partnership. We need to achieve that. We do not have the resources in the public sector to invest in the delivery, but by working together, we can ensure that public and private sector partnerships work on this issue.
Felly, nid yw’n wir mai geiriau yn unig yw’r ddogfen hon: mae’n cynnwys pwyntiau gweithredu pwysig ac yr ydym yn gwbl ymrwymedig iddynt. Nid yw’n wir dweud nad oes cynllunio integredig na sôn am ddarparu band llydan a’r materion eraill a godwyd. Dyna pam ein bod yn siarad am gyfuno’r galw am delathrebu ymhlith y cyhoedd yng Nghymru. Dyna pam fy mod wedi sefydlu’r rhwydwaith sector cyhoeddus, i ymchwilio i’r ffordd y gallwn sicrhau bod y sector cyhoeddus yn gweithio gyda’i gilydd. Mae hyn yn ymwneud â phartneriaeth boed rhwng un parti a’r llall neu rhwng partïon. Mae angen inni gyflawni hynny. Nid oes gennym yr adnoddau yn y sector cyhoeddus i fuddsoddi yn y gwaith o ddarparu band llydan, ond drwy gydweithio, gallwn sicrhau bod partneriaethau rhwng y sector cyhoeddus a’r sector preifat yn llwyddo yn hynny o beth.
There is a danger of us talking ourselves down in Wales. If we are to be that small and clever country, we need to work together, but we also need to celebrate what we do well. The Assembly is streets ahead of other legislatures in the UK in its use of ICT, not just in terms of the ICT in the Chamber but what we use in our offices and our constituency offices. The video conferencing network in Wales is probably the most extensive in the UK and there are plans to roll that out and develop it further. It is not true to say that we are behind the game. Yes, there are issues on which we lag behind the rest of the UK and other parts of the world. There are dangers of a digital divide occurring. That is why we are committed to tackling access and combating social exclusion.
Mae perygl ein bod yn lladd arnom ein hunain yng Nghymru. Er mwyn inni fod yn wlad fach, glyfar fel y nodais, mae angen inni gydweithio, ond mae angen hefyd inni ddathlu’r hyn yr ydym yn ei wneud yn dda. Mae’r Cynulliad ymhell ar y blaen i ddeddfwrfeydd eraill yn y DU o ran ei ddefnydd o TGCh, nid o ran y Siambr yn unig ond o ran yr hyn a ddefnyddiwn yn ein swyddfeydd a’n swyddfeydd etholaeth. Mae’r rhwydwaith cynadledda fideo yng Nghymru gyda’r mwyaf helaeth yn y DU fwy na thebyg ac mae cynlluniau i’w ddatblygu ymhellach. Nid yw’n wir dweud ein bod ar ei hôl hi. Oes, mae materion lle yr ydym ar ei hôl hi o’i gymharu â gweddill y DU a rhannau eraill o’r byd. Yr ydym yn agored i berygl o raniad digidol. Dyna pam ein bod yn ymrwymedig i fynd i’r afael â mynediad ac ymladd yn erbyn allgáu cymdeithasol.
On Friday afternoon, during my visit to Parc Menai, I visited a software company where an 82-year-old former vicar had just established his own website. So, it is not true to say that age is a barrier. All people can use this technology. I therefore commend the framework ‘Cymru Ar-lein—Online for a Better Wales’ and the work that my Cabinet colleagues and I are doing to ensure that we make the most of the opportunities available to us and that we create a small and clever country in Wales.
Brynhawn dydd Gwener, yn ystod fy ymweliad â Pharc Menai, ymwelais â chwmni meddalwedd lle yr oedd cyn-ficer 82 oed newydd sefydlu ei wefan ei hun. Felly nid yw’n wir dweud bod oedran yn rhwystr. Gall pawb ddefnyddio’r dechnoleg hon. Felly cymeradwyaf y fframwaith ‘Cymru Ar-lein—Online for a Better Wales’ a’r gwaith y mae fy nghyd-Aelodau yn y Cabinet yn ei wneud er mwyn sicrhau ein bod yn manteisio’n llawn ar y cyfleoedd sydd ar gael inni a’n bod yn creu gwlad fach, glyfar yng Nghymru.
Gwelliant 1 William Graham t. 63
Amendment 1 William Graham p. 63
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 51 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (51)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Alun Cairns
- Christine Chapman
- Cynog Dafis
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- David Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Kirsty Williams
- Phil Williams
Gwelliant 2 Phil Williams t. 64
Amendment 2 Phil Williams p. 64
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 52 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (52)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Alun Cairns
- Christine Chapman
- Cynog Dafis
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- David Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Kirsty Williams
- Phil Williams
Gwelliant 3 Phil Williams t. 65
Amendment 3 Phil Williams p. 65
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 51 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (51)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Alun Cairns
- Christine Chapman
- Cynog Dafis
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- David Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Kirsty Williams
- Phil Williams
Gwelliant 4 William Graham t. 66
Amendment 4 William Graham p. 66
GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 7 YmatalAbstain 13 Yn erbynAgainst 31
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment defeated.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (7)
- Nick Bourne
- Alun Cairns
- David Davies
- William Graham
- David Melding
- Jonathan Morgan
- Peter Rogers
YmatalAbstain (13)
- Cynog Dafis
- Geraint Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Pauline Jarman
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- David Lloyd
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (31)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Christine Chapman
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- Tom Middlehurst
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Kirsty Williams
Gwelliant 5 William Graham t. 67
Amendment 5 William Graham p. 67
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 52 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (52)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Alun Cairns
- Christine Chapman
- Cynog Dafis
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- David Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Kirsty Williams
- Phil Williams
Cynnig wedi’i ddiwygio Andrew Davies t. 69
Amended motion Andrew Davies p. 69
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 52 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig wedi’i ddiwygio.
Amended motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (52)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Alun Cairns
- Christine Chapman
- Cynog Dafis
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- David Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Kirsty Williams
- Phil Williams
Cynnig Trefniadol
Procedural Motion
Andrew Davies The Minister for Assembly Business spoken in English p. 70
Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 70
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Cynnig trefniadol Andrew Davies t. 70
Procedural motion Andrew Davies p. 70
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 51 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (51)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Alun Cairns
- Christine Chapman
- Cynog Dafis
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- David Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Kirsty Williams
- Phil Williams
Cymorth i Fusnesau yn y Dyfodol
Future Business Support
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 71
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 71
I have selected amendments 1, 2, 6, 7 and 8 in the name of William Graham and amendments 3, 4 and 5 in the name of Jocelyn Davies.
Yr wyf wedi dethol gwelliannau 1, 2, 6, 7 ac 8 yn enw William Graham a gwelliannau 3, 4 a 5 yn enw Jocelyn Davies.
Michael German The Deputy First Minister and Minister for Economic Development spoken in English p. 71
Michael German Dirprwy Brif Weinidog Cymru a’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 71
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Michael German The Deputy First Minister and Minister for Economic Development (continued) spoken in English p. 72
Michael German Dirprwy Brif Weinidog Cymru a’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 72
I propose this motion following the detailed deliberations of the issues by the Economic Development Committee on 13 June, in which meeting, I am glad to say, the Committee signalled its general endorsement of how I plan to take this work forward. Before I move on to the issues, I thank the Committee for its work. I am sure that you will all join me in thanking its former Chair, Val Feld, who I believe may be watching us this afternoon. If you are watching, Val, thank you very much for all your hard work on and commitment to the report before us today.
Cynigiaf y cynnig hwn yn dilyn trafodaethau manwl y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd ar y materion hyn ar 13 Mehefin, lle, mae’n bleser gennyf ddweud, y rhoddodd y Pwyllgor ei gymeradwyaeth gyffredinol i’r ffordd y bwriadaf fynd â’r gwaith hwn yn ei flaen. Cyn imi symud ymlaen at y materion dan sylw, diolchaf i’r Pwyllgor am ei waith. Yr wyf yn siŵr yr ymunwch oll â mi i ddiolch i’w gyn-Gadeirydd, Val Feld, sydd, mi gredaf, yn ein gwylio o bosibl y prynhawn yma. Os ydych yn gwylio, Val, diolch yn fawr iawn ichi am eich holl waith caled a’ch ymrwymiad i’r adroddiad sydd ger ein bron heddiw.
I also thank everyone who participated in the recent public consultation, not only for their comments on the report, but also for their thoughts on the current system and ideas on how we could improve the assistance afforded to small firms in Wales. Those responses and the feedback received from the public consultation meetings have assisted us in our deliberations. The comments received through the consultation process reiterated the concerns that we felt and which were raised in the report, namely, that there is duplication of services, unhelpful competition in the public sector in some cases, and confusion among Welsh businesses on how to gain access to business support.
Diolchaf hefyd i bawb a gyfrannodd yn yr ymgynghoriad cyhoeddus diweddar, nid yn unig am eu sylwadau ar yr adroddiad, ond hefyd am eu barn ar y system bresennol a’r syniadau o ran sut y gallem wella’r cymorth a roddir i gwmnïau bach yng Nghymru. Mae’r ymatebion hynny a’r adborth a dderbyniwyd yn sgîl y cyfarfodydd ymgynghori cyhoeddus wedi bod o gymorth inni yn ein trafodaethau. Ategodd y sylwadau a dderbyniwyd drwy’r broses ymgynghori y pryderon a oedd gennym ac a godwyd yn yr adroddiad, sef, y dyblygir gwasanaethau, y ceir cystadleuaeth ddi-fudd o fewn y sector cyhoeddus mewn rhai achosion, a dryswch ymhlith busnesau Cymru o ran sut i gael gafael ar gymorth i fusnesau.
Concern was also raised about the quality of the service and the fact that we need to achieve a much higher usage of the business support gateway services. I was particularly heartened that many of these shortfalls were identified by the business support organisations and that those bodies made several suggestions for overcoming them. It bodes well that they want to improve the services on offer. Since the review was initiated, further issues have materialised that have caused us all concern, including the redundancies at Corus, the outbreak of foot and mouth disease and the publication of research showing how far Wales lags behind in terms of entrepreneurship.
Codwyd pryderon hefyd am ansawdd y gwasanaeth a’r ffaith bod angen inni sicrhau y gwneir defnydd llawer helaethach o wasanaethau porth cymorth i fusnesau. Fe’m calonogwyd yn arbennig gan y ffaith i lawer o’r diffygion hyn gael eu nodi gan y sefydliadau cymorth i fusnesau ac i’r cyrff hynny wneud sawl awgrym ar gyfer eu goresgyn. Mae’n arwydd da eu bod am wella’r gwasanaethau sydd ar gael. Ers dechrau’r adolygiad, mae materion pellach wedi dod i’r amlwg sydd wedi bod yn bryder inni oll, gan gynnwys diswyddiadau Corus, achosion o glwy’r traed a’r genau ac ymchwil a gyhoeddwyd yn dangos pa mor bell ar ei hôl hi y mae Cymru yn nhermau entrepreneuriaeth.
We know that Wales is lagging behind other countries in terms of business creation. The hard fact is that we are currently losing businesses, because the rate for the creation of new businesses is a little under three-quarters of the UK average. Therefore, the Assembly needs to look to measures that will reverse that trend. The key to that is to ensure that business support, in particular, is properly funded by the public sector and is able and equipped to ensure that Wales is one of the best places to do business.
Gwyddom fod Cymru ar ei hôl hi yn nhermau creu busnesau, o gymharu â gwledydd eraill. Y ffaith amdani yw ein bod ar hyn o bryd yn colli busnesau, gan fod y gyfradd creu busnesau newydd ychydig islaw tri chwarter cyfartaledd y DU. Felly, mae angen i’r Cynulliad edrych am fesurau a fydd yn gwyrdroi’r duedd honno. Yr allwedd i hynny yw sicrhau y caiff cymorth i fusnesau, yn arbennig, ei ariannu’n ddigonol gan y sector cyhoeddus a’i fod yn gallu sicrhau mai Cymru yw un o’r mannau gorau i wneud busnes, a’i fod mewn sefyllfa i wneud hynny.
I turn now to the recommendations that have emerged from this work and I will explain how I plan to take them forward following the discussion in the Economic Development Committee on 13 June. I believe that we have achieved a consensus on the majority of them: I shall therefore focus my remarks on those recommendations that generated most debate.
Trof yn awr at yr argymhellion a ddeilliodd o’r gwaith hwn ac esboniaf sut y bwriadaf eu datblygu yn dilyn y drafodaeth yn y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd ar 13 Mehefin. Credaf ein bod wedi dod i gytundeb barn ar y mwyafrif ohonynt: canolbwyntiaf fy sylwadau felly ar yr argymhellion hynny a arweiniodd at y dadlau mwyaf.
The review contains several important recommendations which relate not only to the delivery of the services but also to the need to increase our understanding of what is happening in the Welsh economy and the impact of our policies and programmes. In relation to the latter, the committee recommended the creation of an economic policy board, underpinned by an economic research monitoring and evaluation unit. The response to those recommendations has been inconclusive. There is a fair degree of consensus around the need for us to ‘raise our game’, but differing views on how that might best be achieved.
Mae’r adolygiad yn cynnwys sawl argymhelliad pwysig sydd yn ymwneud nid yn unig â chyflwyno gwasanaethau ond hefyd â’r angen i gynyddu ein dealltwriaeth o’r hyn sydd yn digwydd o fewn economi Cymru ac effaith ein polisïau a’n rhaglenni. Mewn perthynas â’r olaf, argymhellodd y pwyllgor greu bwrdd polisi economaidd, gydag uned monitro a gwerthuso ymchwil economaidd yn sail iddo. Bu’r ymateb i’r argymhellion hynny yn amhendant. Ceir cryn gytundeb barn ynghylch yr angen inni godi ein safon, ond mae’r farn yn amrywio o ran y ffordd orau o gyflawni hynny.
Some respondents have supported the recommendations but others believe that existing structures and mechanisms can be better attuned to meet the need, and that to set up new ones might create confusion over roles and responsibilities. Others have indicated that they will be responding to the recommendations in the context of the national economic development strategy consultation, which does not conclude until the end of the week.
Mae rhai ymatebwyr wedi cefnogi’r argymhellion ond cred eraill y gellir cymhwyso’r strwythurau a’r dulliau presennol yn well i ddiwallu’r angen, ac y byddai sefydlu rhai newydd o bosibl yn creu dryswch ynglŷn â rolau a chyfrifoldebau. Mae eraill wedi nodi y byddant yn ymateb i’r argymhellion yng nghyd-destun yr ymgynghoriad ar y strategaeth datblygu economaidd genedlaethol, nad yw’n dod i ben tan ddiwedd yr wythnos.
Consequently, we have decided to undertake some further work to establish the need for those actions, including research, monitoring and evaluation, what they might look like; and how they should be organised and developed. The work will be undertaken in close consultation with partner organisations. My intention is to bring forward proposals to the Committee in October, following their consideration by the Cabinet.
O ganlyniad, yr ydym wedi penderfynu gwneud gwaith pellach er mwyn sefydlu’r angen i gymryd y camau hynny, gan gynnwys ymchwilio, monitro a gwerthuso, sut y gallent edrych; a sut y dylid eu trefnu a’u datblygu. Gwneir y gwaith drwy ymgynghori’n fanwl â sefydliadau partner. Fy mwriad yw cyflwyno cynigion i’r Pwyllgor ym mis Hydref, ar ôl i’r Cabinet eu hystyried.
I turn to the issues surrounding service delivery. I am particularly pleased by the positive reaction to my proposals from the existing network, articulated through the board of Business Connect Wales. I want to build on its excellent work. We have a common goal in wishing to develop first-class business support services throughout Wales. That requires the support of many of the interests currently represented by the board. I am delighted that its members wish to continue to participate in this important work.
Trof at faterion sydd yn ymwneud â chyflwyno gwasanaethau. Yr wyf yn arbennig o falch gyda’r ymateb cadarnhaol i’m cynigion gan y rhwydwaith presennol, a fynegwyd drwy fwrdd Cyswllt Busnes Cymru. Yr wyf am adeiladu ar ei waith gwych. Mae gennym nod cyffredin sef dymuno datblygu gwasanaethau cymorth i fusnesau o’r radd flaenaf ledled Cymru. Mae hynny yn galw am gefnogaeth llawer o’r buddiannau y mae’r bwrdd yn eu cynrychioli ar hyn o bryd. Yr wyf wrth fy modd bod ei aelodau yn dymuno parhau i gyfrannu yn y gwaith pwysig hwn.
In many ways we have a clear advantage over other parts of the UK. Much good work is being carried out by highly committed staff, in many organisations, who are motivated by the desire to make a real difference. That includes the current Business Connect network, all the partners, and local deliverers. My aim in bringing forward the proposals is to build on the best aspects and to bring further coherence to what everyone readily admits is a complex network. I do not want to impose a ‘one size fits all’ model; Wales is too diverse for that to work.
Mewn sawl ffordd mae gennym fantais amlwg dros rannau eraill o’r DU. Gwneir llawer o waith da gan staff hynod ymrwymedig, mewn llawer o sefydliadau, sydd wedi’u hysgogi gan y dymuniad i wneud gwahaniaeth gwirioneddol. Mae hynny’n cynnwys rhwydwaith presennol Cyswllt Busnes, yr holl bartneriaid, a’r darparwyr lleol. Fy nod wrth gyflwyno’r cynigion yw defnyddio’r agweddau gorau fel sail a dwyn mwy o gydlyniaeth i’r hyn sydd, fel y mae pawb yn barod i’w addef, yn rhwydwaith cymhleth. Nid wyf am orfodi un model cyffredinol; ni fyddai hynny’n gweithio gan fod Cymru yn rhy amrywiol.
To commence the process, the review recommends that the Welsh Development Agency, as our leading economic development agency, should have responsibility for all business services for small, large and inward investors, while recognising the need to clarify the roles and responsibilities of the WDA, the National Assembly and other leading agencies.
Er mwyn dechrau’r broses, mae’r adolygiad yn argymell y dylai Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru (WDA), fel ein prif awdurdod datblygu economaidd, fod yn gyfrifol am bob gwasanaeth busnes ar gyfer buddsoddwyr bach, mawr a mewnol, tra’n cydnabod yr angen i egluro rolau a chyfrifoldebau’r WDA, y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol a phrif asiantaethau eraill.
The recommendation to clarify the roles and responsibilities of the various organisations was welcomed by the majority of respondents. It corresponds with the work to produce a national economic development strategy. It should go some way to eliminating the existing duplication and confusion and it allows us to take forward examples of best practice.
Croesawyd yr argymhelliad i egluro rolau a chyfrifoldebau’r sefydliadau amrywiol gan y mwyafrif o ymatebwyr. Mae’n cyfateb â’r gwaith i gynhyrchu strategaeth datblygu economaidd genedlaethol. Dylai fynd gam o’r ffordd tuag at helpu i ddileu’r dyblygu a’r dryswch presennol ac mae’n caniatáu inni ddatblygu enghreifftiau o arfer gorau.
Furthermore, it was recommended that the WDA should take lead responsibility in developing the effective gateway for all business services to an effective system of partnership with the other key agencies. There was strong support for the need for a gateway and a firm belief that the WDA was the appropriate body to take the lead on it. Some reservations were expressed over the WDA’s track record on partnership working.
Yn ogystal, argymhellwyd y dylai’r WDA ysgwyddo’r prif gyfrifoldeb wrth ddatblygu’r porth effeithiol ar gyfer pob gwasanaeth busnes yn system bartneriaeth effeithiol gyda’r asiantaethau allweddol eraill. Cafwyd cefnogaeth gref i’r angen am borth a chredwyd yn gryf mai’r WDA oedd y corff priodol i gymryd yr awenau. Mynegwyd rhai amheuon ynglŷn â llwyddiant y WDA o ran gwaith partneriaeth yn y gorffennol.
In making my recommendations, I have taken on board the points raised throughout the consultation. I propose to ask the WDA to enter discussions with all the partnership organisations on how best to structure the services on offer. In doing so, the agency will need to demonstrate that it has the support of its partners. The Economic Development Committee underlined that point and I am happy to endorse it. In order to be effective, any gateway will require the active co-operation and commitment of all partners. A number of organisations have a part to play in delivering support. We need to get away from any turf wars between those organisations. What matters to the customer is the quality of service—being put in touch with someone who can help—rather than the name of the organisation. There should, therefore, be a seamless service between the relevant partners. I am especially conscious of the need to ensure that the gateway provides the best possible match between the customer’s needs and the support available. I include in that that available from the private as well as the public sector. Perhaps we need to better understand how that interface between the public and private sectors may develop.
Wrth wneud fy argymhellion, yr wyf wedi ystyried y pwyntiau a godwyd drwy gydol yr ymgynghoriad. Bwriadaf ofyn i’r WDA ddechrau trafod y ffordd orau o strwythuro’r gwasanaethau sydd ar gael gyda’r holl sefydliadau partneriaeth. Wrth wneud hynny, bydd angen i’r awdurdod ddangos bod ganddo gefnogaeth ei bartneriaid. Pwysleisiodd y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd y pwynt hwnnw ac yr wyf yn falch o’i gymeradwyo. Er mwyn bod yn effeithiol, bydd angen ymrwymiad a chydweithrediad gweithredol yr holl bartneriaid ar unrhyw gorff. Mae rhan gan lawer o sefydliadau i’w chwarae wrth gefnogi. Mae angen inni osgoi unrhyw fân-ryfela rhwng y sefydliadau hynny. Yr hyn sydd yn bwysig i’r cwsmer yw ansawdd y gwasanaeth—cael ei roi mewn cysylltiad â rhywun a all helpu—yn hytrach nag enw’r sefydliad. Dylai fod gwasanaeth di-dor, felly, rhwng y partneriaid perthnasol. Yr wyf yn ymwybodol iawn o’r angen i sicrhau y bydd y porth yn golygu bod anghenion y cwsmer a’r cymorth sydd ar gael yn cydweddu â’i gilydd yn y ffordd orau posibl. Cynhwysaf yn hynny y cymorth sydd ar gael o’r sector preifat yn ogystal â’r sector cyhoeddus. Efallai bod angen dealltwriaeth well arnom o’r ffordd y gallai’r rhyngwyneb hwnnw rhwng y sectorau cyhoeddus a phreifat ddatblygu.
As the review highlighted, if the market worked perfectly, there would not be any need for public sector intervention. However, it does not, primarily because we are dealing with businesses, small businesses particularly, which are often unaware of the full range of advice and support available. That is where the public sector needs to intervene to provide guidance. It would not be right either, to say that the private sector does not already have a role in designing and delivering services. The members of local enterprise agency boards, for example, which are key partners, are largely drawn from the private sector. Having said that, we should accept that there are instances where public sector roles should be re-evaluated, and others where the products on offer have not kept pace with need and should be overhauled. That is where the private sector’s input is welcome. Where it sees market opportunities, I do not want it to be squeezed out by public sector providers. Equally, where there is a continuing need for market intervention, we need its input into the design of the services on offer, so that we deliver what the customer wants in a way that suits their needs.
Fel yr amlygodd yr adolygiad, pe bai’r farchnad yn gweithio’n berffaith, ni fyddai angen i’r sector cyhoeddus ymyrryd. Fodd bynnag, nid yw hynny’n wir, yn bennaf am ein bod yn delio â busnesau, rhai bach yn arbennig, nad ydynt yn aml yn ymwybodol o ystod gyfan y cyngor a’r cymorth ar gael. Dyna lle y mae angen i’r sector cyhoeddus ymyrryd i ddarparu arweiniad. Ni fyddai’n iawn ychwaith, ddweud nad oes gan y sector preifat rôl eisoes yn y gwaith o gynllunio a chyflwyno gwasanaethau. Mae aelodau byrddau asiantaethau menter lleol, er enghraifft, sydd yn bartneriaid allweddol, yn dod yn bennaf o’r sector preifat. Wedi dweud hynny, dylem dderbyn bod achosion lle y dylid ailwerthuso rolau’r sector cyhoeddus, ynghyd ag eraill lle nad yw’r cynnyrch sydd ar gael wedi datblygu ochr yn ochr â’r angen ac y dylid eu hadolygu. Dyna lle y croesawn fewnbwn y sector preifat. Lle y gwêl gyfleoedd yn y farchnad, nid wyf am i ddarparwyr y sector cyhoeddus ei wthio i’r ymylon. Yn yr un modd, lle y mae angen parhaus am ymyrraeth yn y farchnad, mae angen ei fewnbwn arnom yng nghynllun y gwasanaethau sydd ar gael, er mwyn inni ddarparu’r hyn y mae’r cwsmer ei eisiau mewn ffordd sydd yn gweddu i’w anghenion.
The issue of the gateway’s name led to an interesting debate. Should we continue to use the name ‘Business Connect’, or should we come up with a new name? A number of comments were received, including scrapping the name altogether. Having heard the range of opinions and the arguments for and against, I conclude that, for the present, we should retain the name ‘Business Connect’. Therefore, I agree with those who expressed the view that our attention should be focused on making the name synonymous with a quality service.
Arweiniodd enw’r porth at ddadl ddiddorol. A ddylem barhau i ddefnyddio’r enw ‘Cyswllt Busnes’, neu a ddylem ddod o hyd i enw newydd? Derbyniwyd nifer o sylwadau, gan gynnwys cael gwared ar yr enw yn gyfan gwbl. Wedi clywed amrywiaeth y farn a’r dadleuon o blaid ac yn erbyn, dof i’r casgliad y dylem, ar hyn o bryd, gadw’r enw ‘Cyswllt Busnes’. Felly, cytunaf â’r rheini a fynegodd y farn y dylem ganolbwyntio ein sylw ar wneud yr enw yn gyfystyr â gwasanaeth o safon.
The other recommendation that stimulated debate in the Economic Development Committee was the creation of a business ombudsman. Again, there were varying opinions on whether such a body or person is needed or whether the various organisations have adequate procedures in place. As the debate unfolded, the message that seemed to come across was that, while it may be overkill to have a full-blown ombudsman in the true sense of the original Scandinavian model, there should be a mechanism available to businesses which feel that they have not received a good service. As the Economic Development Committee resolved, I have commissioned further work on this matter, and will bring proposals to the Committee on a practical way forward.
Yr argymhelliad arall a ysgogodd ddadl yn y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd oedd creu ombwdsmon busnes. Unwaith eto, yr oedd barn amrywiol ar pa un a oes angen corff neu berson o’r fath neu pa un a oes gweithdrefnau digonol ar waith gan y sefydliadau amrywiol. Wrth i’r ddadl ddatblygu, ymddengys mai’r neges a ddeuai’n amlwg oedd hyn: er ei bod yn ormodol o bosibl cael ombwdsmon o’r iawn ryw yng ngwir ystyr y model Sgandinafaidd gwreiddiol, dylai fod mecanwaith ar gael i fusnesau sydd o’r farn na chawsant wasanaeth da. Yn unol â phenderfyniad y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd, yr wyf wedi comisiynu gwaith pellach ar y mater hwn, a byddaf yn dwyn cynigion i’r Pwyllgor ar ffordd ymarferol ymlaen.
I now indicate how I propose that the Government votes on the amendments. I recommend that we do not support amendments 1 and 2. We will support amendments 3 and 4. We will vote against amendments 5 and 6, but support amendment 7. We do not support amendment 8. I will give explanations in my closing remarks.
Nodaf yn awr sut y cynigiaf y dylai’r Llywodraeth bleidleisio ar y gwelliannau. Argymhellaf na ddylem gefnogi gwelliannau 1 a 2. Cefnogwn welliannau 3 a 4. Pleidleisiwn yn erbyn gwelliannau 5 a 6, ond cefnogwn welliant 7. Ni chefnogwn welliant 8. Esboniaf hyn yn fy sylwadau i gloi.
To conclude, I recognise that the proposals for change will not please everyone. It is inevitable that some will feel that the changes are too radical and others that they do not go far enough. The key objectives now are to provide a service that best meets the needs of our businesses, and helps them to prosper. We seek improvements that make a real difference. We have good services and programmes, and excellent, dedicated people administering them. Those people have helped a large number of businesses to start up, prosper and grow. We now need to build on best practice, and progress this urgently.
I gloi, cydnabyddaf na fydd y cynigion ar gyfer newid yn plesio pawb. Mae’n anochel y bydd rhai o’r farn bod y newidiadau yn rhy radical ac eraill o’r farn nad ânt yn ddigon pell. Yr amcanion allweddol yn awr yw darparu gwasanaeth sydd yn diwallu anghenion ein busnesau yn y ffordd orau, ac sydd yn eu helpu i ffynnu. Yr ydym am weld gwelliannau sydd yn gwneud gwahaniaeth gwirioneddol. Mae gennym wasanaethau a rhaglenni da, a phobl wych, ymroddedig i’w gweinyddu. Mae’r bobl hynny wedi helpu nifer fawr o fusnesau i ddechrau, ffynnu a thyfu. Mae angen yn awr inni ddefnyddio arfer gorau fel sail, a datblygu hyn ar frys.
In order to implement the recommendations, I propose to invite the Welsh Development Agency to outline proposals by October 2001, which have the backing of all those concerned, to ensure that we have the best method of service delivery to meet our businesses’ needs. I would like the new arrangements to be in place by 1 April 2002.
Er mwyn gweithredu’r argymhellion, bwriadaf wahodd Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru i amlinellu’r cynigion erbyn mis Hydref 2001, a gefnogir gan bawb sydd yn ymwneud â hwy, er mwyn sicrhau bod gennym y dull gorau o gyflwyno gwasanaethau i ddiwallu ein hanghenion busnes. Hoffwn i’r trefniadau newydd fod yn eu lle erbyn 1 Ebrill 2002.
I commend the motion to you.
Cymeradwyaf y cynnig ichi.
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 77
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 77
I point out, Minister, that you will only have two and three-quarter minutes in which to make your closing speech.
Nodaf, Weinidog, mai dim ond dwy funud a thri chwarter fydd gennych i wneud eich araith gloi.
I propose the following amendments in the name of William Graham. Amendment 1: at the beginning of point 2, change ‘endorses’ to ‘notes’.
Cynigiaf y gwelliannau canlynol yn enw William Graham. Gwelliant 1: Ar ddechrau pwynt 2, newid y gair ‘cymeradwyo’ i ‘nodi’.
I propose amendment 2. Add to the end of point 2:
Cynigiaf welliant 2. Ychwanegu at ddiwedd pwynt 2:
I propose amendment 6. Add new point at the end of the motion:
Cynigiaf welliant 6. Ychwanegu pwynt newydd at ddiwedd y cynnig:
I propose amendment 7. Add new point at the end of the motion:
Cynigiaf welliant 7. Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:
I propose amendment 8. Add new point at the end of the motion:
Cynigiaf welliant 8. Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:
In proposing these amendments I also recognise the contribution of Committee members to the review of business support. In particular, I reiterate the Minister’s comments about Val Feld, the Committee’s Chair at the time, and her efforts during the consultation. I also mention Jim Driscoll, who was the special advisor to the Economic Development Committee and who worked tirelessly during that period.
Wrth gynnig y gwelliannau hyn cydnabyddaf hefyd gyfraniad aelodau’r Pwyllgor i’r adolygiad o gymorth i fusnesau. Yn arbennig, ategaf sylwadau’r Gweinidog am Val Feld, Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor ar y pryd, a’i hymdrechion yn ystod yr ymgynghoriad. Crybwyllaf hefyd Jim Driscoll, a oedd yn ymgynghorydd arbennig i’r Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd ac a weithiodd yn ddiflino yn ystod y cyfnod hwnnw.
This could be a fine example of the Committee’s policy-making role and an excellent example of cross-party working to analyse the difficulties experienced by the business community in accessing and using business support services. The answer to all those problems will be different according to our political standpoints, but nonetheless, an important precedent could have been set. The reason for my doubt and hesitancy in this regard is that having analysed the Minister’s response, I cannot help but think that the Committee’s recommendations and the calls arising from the consultation have been watered down. The jury is out on the non-establishment of the economic policy board at this stage. The need for that was one of the strongest assertions from all members of the Committee, including the Minister, before he became a member of the partnership Government. I hope that this will not become yet another issue that the Minister supported when in opposition but fails to follow through when in Government.
Gallai hyn fod yn enghraifft fendigedig o rôl y Pwyllgor o ran llunio polisïau ac yn enghraifft wych o weithio trawsbleidiol i ddadansoddi’r problemau a brofir gan y gymuned fusnes wrth geisio cael gafael ar wasanaethau cymorth i fusnesau a’u defnyddio. Bydd yr ateb i bob un o’r problemau hynny’n wahanol yn ôl ein safbwyntiau gwleidyddol, ond serch hynny, gellid bod wedi gosod cynsail pwysig. Y rheswm dros fy amheuaeth a’m petruster yn hyn o beth yw, wedi dadansoddi ymateb y Gweinidog, ni allaf ond meddwl i argymhellion y Pwyllgor a’r galwadau sydd yn deillio o’r ymgynghoriad gael eu glastwreiddio. Mae’r posibilrwydd o beidio â sefydlu bwrdd polisi economaidd ar hyn o bryd yn cael ei ystyried. Yr angen am hynny oedd un o’r haeriadau cryfaf gan holl aelodau’r Pwyllgor, gan gynnwys y Gweinidog, cyn iddo ddod yn aelod o’r Llywodraeth bartneriaeth. Gobeithiaf na fydd hwn yn fater arall a gefnogwyd gan y Gweinidog pan oedd yn aelod o’r wrthblaid ond y metha â’i gyflawni pan ddaw ei blaid i rym.
Another issue that the Minister opposed before he became a member of the Government was the transfer of the internationalisation responsibility from the Welsh Development Agency to the Assembly. Previous calls to reverse this have fallen on deaf ears. However, one key principle set out in the business support review was to acknowledge the roles of each organisation. The Assembly should be developing policy and the WDA should deliver initiatives. Following that principle, amendment 2 has been tabled constructively to review where the role that WalesTrade International plays is best suited to be placed. I say ‘constructively’ because I have not called for a specific timescale. I ask that the Minister himself set a date to review that issue. I hope that the amendment is received in the spirit in which it is proposed. I regret that given the Minister’s earlier comments, the Government will vote against it. I hope that he reconsiders that decision.
Mater arall a wrthwynebai’r Gweinidog cyn dod yn aelod o’r Llywodraeth oedd trosglwyddo’r cyfrifoldeb o ryngwladoli o Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru i’r Cynulliad. Mae galwadau blaenorol i wyrdroi hyn wedi’u hanwybyddu. Fodd bynnag, un egwyddor allweddol a nodwyd yn yr adolygiad cymorth i fusnesau oedd cydnabod rolau pob sefydliad. Dylai’r Cynulliad fod yn datblygu polisïau a dylai’r WDA fod yn cyflawni mentrau. Gan ddilyn yr egwyddor honno, cyflwynwyd gwelliant 2 mewn ffordd adeiladol i adolygu ble fyddai’r lle gorau i osod y rôl y mae MasnachCymru Rhyngwladol yn ei chwarae. Dywedaf ‘adeiladol’ gan nad wyf wedi galw am derfyn amser penodol. Gofynnaf i’r Gweinidog ei hun bennu dyddiad i adolygu’r mater hwnnw. Gobeithiaf y caiff y gwelliant ei dderbyn yn yr ysbryd y’i cyflwynir. Gresynaf, o gofio sylwadau cynharach y Gweinidog, y bydd y Llywodraeth yn pleidleisio yn ei erbyn. Gobeithiaf yr ailystyria’r penderfyniad hwnnw.
One key area of concern for all businessmen is access to the range of business support services available. Business Connect has sought to take responsibility for that until now, and we welcome the fact that the management has been part of the WDA. The name of Business Connect has been damaged beyond repair and the service needs to be rebranded if we are to regain the confidence of the business community. The current chairman of Business Connect has worked tirelessly to improve its service and has succeeded in many respects. However, the previous lack of confidence in the brand has prevented the board from achieving its aims. That is shown not only in the low number of calls that some of the Business Connect offices around the country receive, but also in relation to the foot and mouth disease crisis. The Federation of Small Businesses Wales recently surveyed the impact of the foot and mouth disease on its members. Businessmen were asked a range of questions. One of those questions was about whom they had contacted for business support during this difficult period. Only 1.3 per cent said that they had contacted Business Connect. Sadly, that is the reality with which we have to deal. A structural change is welcome, but rebranding is vital to regain confidence.
Un maes allweddol o bryder i bob dyn busnes yw ystod y gwasanaethau cymorth i fusnesau sydd ar gael. Ceisiodd Cyswllt Busnes gymryd y cyfrifoldeb dros hynny hyd yn hyn, a chroesawn y ffaith y bu’r rheolwyr yn rhan o’r WDA. Mae enw Cyswllt Busnes wedi cael niwed anadferadwy ac mae angen ailfrandio’r gwasanaeth er mwyn adennill hyder y gymuned fusnes. Mae cadeirydd presennol Cyswllt Busnes wedi gweithio’n ddiflino i wella ei wasanaeth ac mae wedi llwyddo mewn sawl agwedd. Fodd bynnag, mae’r diffyg hyder blaenorol yn y brand wedi rhwystro’r bwrdd rhag cyflawni ei nodau. Mae hynny i’w weld nid yn unig yn nifer isel y galwadau a dderbynnir gan rai o swyddfeydd Cyswllt Busnes ledled y wlad, ond hefyd mewn perthynas ag argyfwng clwy’r traed a’r genau. Yn ddiweddar cynhaliwyd arolwg gan Ffederasiwn Busnesau Bach Cymru ar effaith clwy’r traed a’r genau ar ei aelodau. Gofynnwyd amrywiaeth o gwestiynau i ddynion busnes. Gofynnodd un o’r cwestiynau hynny â phwy yr oeddent wedi cysylltu am gymorth busnes yn ystod y cyfnod anodd hwn. Dim ond 1.3 y cant a ddywedodd iddynt gysylltu â Chyswllt Busnes. Yn anffodus, dyna’r realiti y mae’n rhaid inni ei wynebu. Mae croeso i newid strwythurol, ond mae ailfrandio yn hanfodol i adennill hyder.
In terms of the WDA delivering many of the support services, some businessmen highlighted their concern at last week’s Business Partnership Council meeting that there was a potential for a conflict of interest. Although I do not, at present, necessarily share that concern, it is important for us to act to reassure the business community. That is the purpose of amendment 7 and, in part, amendment 8. Transparency of decisions is crucial to build confidence further. I welcome the Minister’s support for that amendment. Amendment 8 calls for the private sector to be commissioned, wherever possible, to deliver support on behalf of the WDA. I regret that the Minister will not support that amendment. We often talk about the need for a thriving private sector to underpin a strong economy. Although I do not consider myself to be the strongest advocate of economic intervention, using private business will, as a consequence, help rebuild the much needed service sector of the Welsh economy.
O ran y WDA yn cyflwyno llawer o’r gwasanaethau cymorth, amlygodd rhai dynion busnes eu pryder yng nghyfarfod y Cyngor Partneriaeth Busnes yr wythnos diwethaf bod potensial ar gyfer gwrthdaro buddiannau. Er nad wyf, ar hyn o bryd, yn rhannu’r pryder hwnnw o anghenraid, mae’n bwysig ein bod yn gweithredu i dawelu ofnau’r gymuned fusnes. Dyna ddiben gwelliant 7 ac, yn rhannol, welliant 8. Mae tryloywder penderfyniadau yn hollbwysig i gynyddu hyder ymhellach. Croesawaf gefnogaeth y Gweinidog i’r gwelliant hwnnw. Mae gwelliant 8 yn galw am gomisiynu’r sector preifat, lle bynnag y bo’n bosibl, i roi cymorth ar ran y WDA. Gresynaf na fydd y Gweinidog yn cefnogi’r gwelliant hwnnw. Soniwn yn aml am yr angen am sector preifat llewyrchus fel sail i economi gref. Er nad ystyriaf fy hun fel yr eiriolwr cryfaf dros ymyrraeth economaidd, bydd defnyddio busnesau preifat, o ganlyniad, yn helpu ailadeiladu sector gwasanaeth economi Cymru, y mae ei angen yn ddirfawr.
This is an opportunity to streamline the whole process of business support. An enormous responsibility falls on the Assembly and, in particular, on the Minister for Economic Development. Until now, we have had competition between public sector organisations. This is the one opportunity that we have to gain business community confidence by streamlining the process and ensuring that the bureaucracies that have been created and the competition between the public sector bodies are removed. However, encouraging a private sector business support network is crucial to develop this sector of the economy. It not only tends to add value to the businesses and deliver high levels of salary, but also provides longer-term growth where the public sector cannot provide support. Any conflicts of interest must be eradicated from the Welsh Development Agency. Commissioning the private sector to deliver services wherever possible is a productive and pragmatic way forward.
Mae hwn yn gyfle i feinhau’r holl broses cymorth i fusnesau. Mae cyfrifoldeb enfawr ar ysgwyddau’r Cynulliad ac, yn arbennig, ar y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd. Hyd yn hyn, cawsom gystadleuaeth rhwng sefydliadau’r sector cyhoeddus. Dyma’r unig gyfle sydd gennym i ennyn hyder y gymuned fusnes drwy feinhau’r broses a sicrhau y ceir gwared ar y fiwrocratiaeth a grëwyd ynghyd â’r gystadleuaeth rhwng cyrff yn y sector cyhoeddus. Fodd bynnag, mae annog rhwydwaith cymorth i fusnesau o fewn y sector preifat yn hollbwysig er mwyn datblygu’r sector hon o’r economi. Nid yn unig y mae’n tueddu i ychwanegu at werth busnesau ac yn sicrhau lefelau cyflog uwch, ond mae hefyd yn darparu twf tymor hwy lle na all y sector cyhoeddus roi cymorth. Rhaid dileu unrhyw wrthdaro o ran buddiannau o Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru. Mae comisiynu’r sector preifat i ddarparu gwasanaethau lle bynnag y bo’n bosibl yn ffordd gynhyrchiol ac ymarferol ymlaen.
Cynigiaf y gwelliannau canlynol yn enw Jocelyn Davies. Gwelliant 3: ychwanegu at ddiwedd pwynt 4:
I propose the following amendments in the name of Jocelyn Davies. Amendment 3: add at the end of point 4:
Cynigiaf welliant 4. Ychwanegu at ddiwedd pwynt 5:
I propose amendment 4. Add at end of point 5:
Cynigiaf welliant 5. Ychwanegu fel pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:
I propose amendment 5. Add as a new point at the end of the motion:
Datganaf fuddiant fel cyfarwyddwr busnes bach. Yr wyf yn falch o allu cymryd rhan yn y ddadl hon ac yn falch bod Mike German wedi awgrymu y bydd yn cefnogi gwelliannau 3 a 4. Cefnogwn welliannau 2, 6 a 7 gan y Ceidwadwyr, ond nid gwelliannau 1 ac 8.
I declare an interest as a director of a small business. I am glad to be able to participate in this debate and I am pleased that Mike German has suggested that he will support amendments 3 and 4. We support amendments, 2, 6 and 7 by the Conservatives, but not amendments 1 and 8.
Mae angen ailstrwythuro’r gyfundrefn cynghori busnesau. Nid dyma’r tro cyntaf i’r mater hwn gael ei wyntyllu. Mae pwyllgorau dethol Tŷ’r Cyffredin wedi cynnal o leiaf ddau ymchwiliad i’r mater. Serch hynny, methodd yr hen Swyddfa Gymreig â gweithredu ar argymhellion yr adroddiadau.
We need to restructure the business advice system. This is not the first time that this issue has been aired. House of Commons Select Committees have carried out at least two inquiries into the matter. Nevertheless, the former Welsh Office did not implement the recommendations contained in those reports.
Felly, mae’r Cynulliad heddiw yn gafael mewn taten a oedd yn rhy boeth i San Steffan. Mae’n bwysig yn awr fod yr argymhellion ar sut i wella’r gyfundrefn gynghori a chynorthwyo busnes yn cael eu gweithredu heb oedi.
Therefore, the Assembly today is grasping a potato that was too hot for Westminster. It is now important that recommendations on improving the business advice and support system are implemented without delay.
Mae dros 50 o asiantaethau, anturiaethau, gwasanaethau a chynghorau yn cynnig cymorth yn y sector cyhoeddus, heb sôn am yr ymgynghorwyr preifat, cyfrifyddion, cyfreithwyr a bancwyr sydd yn cynnig cymorth yn y sector preifat. I’r cwmni bach sydd angen cymorth er mwyn ehangu neu ymsefydlu, mae bron yn amhosibl gwybod at bwy i droi.
Over 50 agencies, enterprises, services and councils offer support in the public sector, not to mention the private consultants, accountants, lawyers and bankers and so on that offer support in the private sector. To the small company that needs help to expand or set up, it is more or less impossible to know where to turn.
Felly, mae’r ddadl dros sefydlu un porth mynediad at y gyfundrefn yn un sylfaenol. Ymdrechodd Cyswllt Busnes dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf i gyflawni hynny. Tra chyflawnwyd gwaith clodwiw mewn rhai ardaloedd, ni fu ei berfformiad yn gyson dros Gymru. Mae Cyswllt Busnes yn cydnabod bod angen gwasanaeth proffesiynol, llawn amser sydd ar gael yn gyfleus dros Gymru. Dywedodd rhai o’r swyddogion wrthyf fod hyn yn bosibl ond byddai angen gwario rhai miliynau o bunnoedd yn ychwanegol. Yn fy marn i, byddai hynny’n dyblygu patrwm sydd eisoes yn bodoli o fewn y WDA. Wedi’r cyfan, y WDA yw prif asiantaeth datblygu economaidd Cymru. Nid oes mantais o gwbl mewn creu strwythur newydd ochr yn ochr â’r WDA.
Therefore, the argument for establishing one gateway to the system is fundamental. Business Connect has made efforts over the past few years to deliver that. However, while it has done commendable work in some areas, its performance has not been consistent throughout Wales. Business Connect accepts the need for a professional, full-time service that is easily accessible throughout Wales. Some officials have told me that this would be possible but that several million pounds would need to be spent. In my opinion, that would duplicate the same pattern that already exists within the WDA. After all, the WDA is Wales’s main economic development agency. There is no advantage in creating a new structure in parallel with the WDA.
Fodd bynnag, mae gan gwsmeriaid amheuon ynghylch rhoi’r gwaith hwn yn nwylo’r WDA. Yn gyntaf, ceir teimlad bod gan y WDA ormod o ogwydd tuag at y cwmnïau mawr. Mae canllawiau’r WDA bellach yn pwysleisio’r angen i feithrin busnesau bach a chanolig. Mae disgwyl y bydd y WDA yn symud yn y cyfeiriad hwn.
However, customers have doubts about assigning this work to the WDA. First of all, there is a feeling that the WDA is too inclined towards large businesses. The WDA guidelines now emphasise the need to nurture small and medium-sized enterprises. The WDA is expected to move in this direction.
Yn ail, ceir teimlad mai corff biwrocrataidd, sector cyhoeddus yw’r WDA. I ryw raddau, mae hynny’n wir. Mae’n rhaid iddo ddangos ei fod yn cydweithio â’r sector preifat a’i fod yn hyblyg wrth wneud hynny. Dyna pam yr ydym am apwyntio ombwdsman busnes i warchod hawliau busnesau bach os ydynt yn cael cam. Croesawn yr hyn a ddywedodd Mike German ar y mater hwnnw.
Secondly, there is a feeling that the WDA is a bureaucratic, public sector body. To some extent that is true. It must show that it is co-operating with the private sector and that it is flexible in doing so. That is why we want to appoint a business ombudsman to protect the rights of small businesses if they suffer an injustice. We welcome what Mike German said on that matter.
Yn drydydd, ceir amheuon nad yw’r WDA yn ddigon agos at gymunedau lleol. Bydd angen i’r gyfundrefn newydd weithio ar lefel ranbarthol neu hyd yn oed yn lleol. Dyna yw diben gwelliant 3. Dylid sefydlu tua wyth swyddfa ranbarthol, lle y gall busnesau droi atynt yn hawdd i gael cymorth. Dylai pob busnes allu derbyn gwasanaeth canolog arbenigol er mwyn sicrhau bod cyngor proffesiynol ar gael.
Thirdly, there are doubts as to whether the WDA is sufficiently close to local communities. The new system will need to work at a regional or even local level. That is the aim of amendment 3. Around eight regional offices should be established to which businesses could easily turn to for support. Each business should receive a specialised, centralised service to ensure that professional advice is available.
Yn bedwerydd, ceir teimlad nad yw’r WDA weithiau yn ddigon sensitif i ddymuniadau cymunedau lleol. Yn fy marn i, dylai’r swyddfeydd cyswllt rhanbarthol ddod o dan oruchwyliaeth gweithgor rhanbarthol a fyddai’n cynnwys cynrychiolwyr o’r Ffederasiwn Busnesau Bach, yr undebau llafur, Cydffederasiwn Diwydiant Prydain, cynrychiolaeth broffesiynol, yr awdurdodau lleol, Bwrdd Croeso Cymru ac ati. Dylid sefydlu partneriaeth leol er mwyn sicrhau bod sensitifrwydd ar lefel ranbarthol.
Fourthly, there is a feeling that the WDA is not sensitive enough to the wishes of local communities. In my opinion, the local contact offices should be supervised by a regional working group, which should comprise representatives from the Federation of Small Businesses, the trade unions, the Confederation of British Industry, professional representation, local authorities, the Wales Tourist Board and so on. A local partnership should be set up to ensure that there is sensitivity at a regional level.
Yn bumed, ceir teimlad nad yw’r WDA yn ddigon annibynnol. Mae’n rhaid i’r agwedd hon ar waith y WDA gael ei chadw hyd lled braich o’i waith arferol a chael ei rhedeg yn annibynnol o’i wasanaethau eraill. Dylai fod yn fodlon defnyddio’r sector preifat os mai dyna’r ffordd orau ymlaen. Mae her i’r WDA yn hyn o beth ond, o wynebu’r her, yr wyf yn sicr y gall y strwythur newydd fod yn berthnasol ac o gymorth.
Fifthly, there is a feeling that the WDA is not sufficiently independent. This aspect of the WDA’s work must be kept at arm’s length from its usual work and should be run independently from its other services. It should be willing to use the private sector if that is the best way forward. The WDA faces a challenge in that respect but, in facing that challenge, I am certain that the new structure can be relevant and helpful.
Cyfeiriaf hefyd at elfennau eraill o’r rhaglen sydd yn allweddol os yw’r argymhellion y clywsom amdanynt yn cael eu gweithredu. Yn gyntaf, rhaid cael bwrdd polisi economaidd neu bydd y gwasanaeth newydd yn gweithredu mewn gwagle. Rhaid iddo ddatblygu ochr yn ochr â’r strategaeth datblygu economaidd genedlaethol, ond mae ei angen.
I also refer to other elements of the programme that are vital if the recommendations that we heard about are implemented. First, we need an economic policy board or the new service will operate in a vacuum. It must develop in parallel to the national economic development strategy, but it is needed.
Yn ail, mae hefyd angen uned ymchwil a gwerthuso er mwyn sicrhau ein bod yn mesur effeithiolrwydd ein gwaith, yn nodi llwyddiannau a methiannau ac yn wynebu goblygiadau hynny. Gobeithiaf y bydd y Cabinet yn ystyried hynny mewn modd adeiladol.
Secondly, we also need a research and evaluation unit to ensure that we measure the effectiveness of our work, note successes and failures and face the consequences of these failures. I hope that the Cabinet will consider that constructively.
Yn olaf, cyfeiriaf at y dull ymgynghorol. Cafwyd cydweithredu hynod rhwng Cydffederasiwn Diwydiant Prydain, y Ffederasiwn Busnesau Bach a siambrau masnach Cymru. Cyflwynasant syniadau manwl ac adeiladol. Yr oeddent weithiau yn feirniadol ond, yn gyffredinol, yr oeddent yn ategu cyfeiriad yr adroddiad hwn. Mae’n gyfrifoldeb ar y Cynulliad i wrando’n astud ar y cyfuniad pwysig o sylwadau sydd wedi dod gerbron.
Finally, I refer to the consultation method. There was exceptional co-operation between the Confederation of British Industry, the Federation of Small Businesses and the Welsh chambers of commerce. They presented detailed and constructive ideas. They were sometimes critical but, in general, they endorsed the direction of this report. The Assembly has a responsibility to listen carefully to the important combination of comments that have come before us.
Apeliaf ar inni fod yn ddigon eofn wrth inni symud ymlaen i afael yn y syniadau mwyaf radical. Rhaid inni beidio â gadael i gyfuniad o weision sifil, llywodraeth leol, rhai gwleidyddion neu rai pobl busnes i arafu hyn. Rhaid cael newid buan a gobeithiaf mai dyma’r cam tuag at hynny.
I appeal for us to be sufficiently daring as we move forwards to grasp the most radical ideas. We must not let a combination of civil servants, local government, some politicians or some business people slow this down. We need change quickly and I hope that this is a step towards that.
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 84
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 84
Eight or nine Members have indicated that they wish to speak and I hope to allow them all to contribute. We will overrun by about three or four minutes, but I will interrupt anybody who speaks for more than five minutes. If all speakers keep to less than five minutes, everybody who wishes to speak will be able to do so.
Mae wyth neu naw Aelod wedi nodi eu bod am siarad a gobeithiaf ganiatáu i bob un ohonynt gyfrannu. Awn dros yr amser o tua tair neu bedair munud, ond torraf ar draws unrhyw un sydd yn siarad am fwy na phum munud. Os ceidw pob siaradwr i lai na phum munud, bydd yn bosibl i bawb sydd am siarad wneud hynny.
I am pleased that a tribute has been paid to Val Feld. Her pioneering work has eased this burden. She was particularly helpful to me, as I have only been a member of the Economic Development Committee for a short time. We all hope that she will be back soon.
Yr wyf yn falch bod teyrnged wedi’i thalu i Val Feld. Mae ei gwaith arloesol wedi ysgafnhau’r baich hwn. Yr oedd o gymorth arbennig i mi, gan mai dim ond ers amser byr y bûm yn aelod o’r Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd. Gobeithiwn oll y bydd yn ei hôl yn fuan.
The Committee’s challenge was to facilitate service delivery, rather than administrative reform, as the main tool for delivering the £150 million of annual Government aid to Welsh business. The transparency and reliability of funding is a key issue. Are there not too many different pots of money at present? Should not businesses have a single stream of finance upon which they can rely? At present, businesses must apply to various trusts, bodies, services and agencies, all of which have with their own deadlines, contact numbers and expiry dates. We need a transparent, traceable and accountable funding process for every business that we help. I agree with the report that such funding complexities act as a straightjacket to economic growth, but I remain to be convinced that all the recommendations will solve this problem.
Her y Pwyllgor oedd hwyluso’r gwaith o gyflwyno gwasanaethau, yn hytrach na diwygio gweinyddol, fel y prif arf ar gyfer cyflwyno’r £150 miliwn o gymorth blynyddol y Llywodraeth i fusnesau Cymru. Mae tryloywder a dibynadwyedd ariannu yn fater allweddol. Onid oes gormod o gronfeydd arian gwahanol ar hyn o bryd? Oni ddylai fod gan fusnesau ffrwd unigol o arian y gallant ddibynnu arni? Ar hyn o bryd, rhaid i fusnesau wneud cais i ymddiriedolaethau, cyrff, gwasanaethau ac asiantaethau amrywiol, y mae gan bob un ohonynt eu terfynau amser, eu rhifau cyswllt a’u dyddiadau dod i ben eu hunain. Mae angen proses ariannu dryloyw, y gellir ei holrhain ac sydd yn atebol ar bob busnes y rhoddwn gymorth iddo. Cytunaf â’r adroddiad bod cymhlethdodau ariannu o’r fath yn cyfyngu ar dwf economaidd, ond nid wyf yn argyhoeddedig y bydd yr holl argymhellion yn datrys y broblem hon.
I agree with the Deputy First Minister that a single regional gateway must be the way forward. The complex administrative issues must be simplified. There must be proper cross-cutting deliverers and it is important that busy businesses have time to find out what help is available. They need good information fast and they need support to help them grow and survive. It takes time to get the hang of running a new business, be it an art gallery or a new internet start-up, and we need to provide tailored help and predictive and responsive support.
Cytunaf â’r Dirprwy Brif Weinidog mai porth rhanbarthol unigol yw’r ffordd ymlaen. Rhaid symleiddio’r materion gweinyddol cymhleth. Rhaid cael darparwyr trawsbynciol priodol ac mae’n bwysig bod busnesau prysur yn cael amser i ddarganfod pa help sydd ar gael. Mae angen gwybodaeth dda arnynt yn gyflym ac mae angen cymorth arnynt i’w helpu i dyfu a goroesi. Mae’n cymryd amser i ddod i arfer â rhedeg busnes newydd, boed yn oriel gelf neu’n fenter newydd ar y rhyngrwyd, ac mae angen inni ddarparu help sydd wedi’i deilwra a chymorth rhagfynegol ac ymatebol.
The key to the success of this report will be ensuring that national standards are matched in local delivery. Business Support in north Wales is in some respects a model for our reforms. It acts as a single, local one-stop shop for business help. A recent survey found that it had a 91 per cent approval rating. However, the profile of local Business Connect gateways remains low in general. Therefore, I welcome the development of a business gateway network throughout Wales.
Yr allwedd i lwyddiant yr adroddiad hwn fydd sicrhau bod gofynion safonau cenedlaethol yn cael eu diwallu drwy ddarpariaeth leol. Mae Cymorth Busnes yng ngogledd Cymru, mewn rhai ffyrdd, yn fodel ar gyfer ein diwygiadau. Gweithreda fel siop un cam leol, unigol i helpu busnesau. Canfu arolwg diweddar fod ganddo gyfradd gymeradwyaeth o 91 y cant. Fodd bynnag, mae proffil pyrth Cyswllt Busnes lleol yn parhau’n isel yn gyffredinol. Felly, croesawaf ddatblygiad rhwydwaith pyrth busnes ledled Cymru.
The WDA, as we know, has worked hard to develop a worldwide reputation. It is fitting that that body be given the responsibility for the day-to-day activities of the gateway. However, like people, organisations sometimes lose momentum and focus. That is why it is important that the WDA conducts an internal reorganisation and lays down targets as required in ‘Betterwales.com’. It must embrace new technology, weed out moribund staff and be at the forefront of new and innovative ways of delivery.
Mae’r WDA, fel y gwyddom, wedi gweithio’n galed i ddatblygu enw da ledled y byd. Mae’n briodol bod y corff hwnnw yn cael y cyfrifoldeb dros weithgareddau bob dydd y porth. Fodd bynnag, fel pobl, bydd sefydliadau weithiau yn colli eu momentwm a’u ffocws. Dyna pam ei bod yn bwysig i’r WDA ad-drefnu ei hun yn fewnol gan bennu targedau fel sydd yn ofynnol yn ‘Gwellcymru.com’. Rhaid iddo groesawu technoleg newydd, cael gwared ar staff marwaidd a bod ar flaen y gad o ran ffyrdd newydd a dyfeisgar o weithredu.
In many senses, our future depends on how the WDA delivers. It must be independent, it must allow regional consortia to run themselves on a day-to-day basis and it must act impartially. This is an innovative step forward and I support the motion.
Mewn sawl ystyr, mae ein dyfodol yn dibynnu ar sut y mae’r WDA yn gweithredu. Rhaid iddo fod yn annibynnol, rhaid iddo ganiatáu i gonsortia rhanbarthol redeg eu hunain o ddydd i ddydd a rhaid iddo weithredu’n amhleidiol. Mae hwn yn gam arloesol ymlaen a chefnogaf y cynnig.
I will pick up on some cross-cutting Committee issues, rather than business ones. I will consider the future of business support in rural areas. The Agriculture and Rural Development Committee has been conducting a review of this, and recently published its report, ‘Diversifying the Rural Economy’. The review considered business support for rural areas. It was much wider than business support for farmers only; it was for the whole of the rural economy. Should that not have been considered jointly with the Economic Development Committee’s business support and development review? Would it not have been sensible to join them together? Perhaps joint meetings should have been held around Wales, especially in rural areas, to take evidence. The Economic Development Committee held meetings outside Cardiff, but was the Agriculture and Rural Development Committee offered the opportunity to participate in those meetings? As far as I know, as a member of the Agriculture and Rural Development Committee, it seems that the two reviews were conducted separately, similar to the way in which the two European documents—the rural development plan and the Objective 1 single programming document—were prepared. There does not seem to have been the joined-up approach about which we hear so much from the Government. The Assembly must get much better at joining up approaches across Committees.
Af i’r afael â rhai materion Pwyllgor trawsbynciol, yn hytrach na materion busnes. Ystyriaf ddyfodol cymorth i fusnesau mewn ardaloedd gwledig. Bu’r Pwyllgor Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig yn cynnal adolygiad o hyn, ac yn ddiweddar cyhoeddodd ei adroddiad, sef ‘Arallgyfeirio’r Economi Wledig’. Yr oedd yr adolygiad yn ystyried cymorth i fusnesau ar gyfer ardaloedd gwledig. Yr oedd yn llawer ehangach na chymorth i fusnesau ar gyfer ffermwyr yn unig; yr oedd ar gyfer yr economi wledig gyfan. Oni ddylid bod wedi ystyried hynny ar y cyd ag adolygiad cymorth i fusnesau a datblygu’r Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd? Oni fyddai wedi bod yn synhwyrol eu cyfuno? Efallai y dylid bod wedi cynnal cyfarfodydd ar y cyd o amgylch Cymru, er mwyn cymryd tystiolaeth. Cynhaliwyd cyfarfodydd gan y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd y tu allan i Gaerdydd, ond a roddwyd cyfle i’r Pwyllgor Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig gyfranogi yn y cyfarfodydd hynny? Hyd y gwn i, fel aelod o’r Pwyllgor Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig, ymddengys i’r ddau adolygiad gael eu cynnal ar wahân, mewn modd tebyg i’r ffordd y paratowyd y ddwy ddogfen Ewropeaidd, sef y cynllun datblygu gwledig a dogfen raglennu sengl Amcan 1. Nid ymddengys y dilynwyd yr ymagwedd gydgysylltiedig y clywn gymaint amdani gan y Llywodraeth. Rhaid i’r Cynulliad wella cryn dipyn ym maes ymagweddau cydgysylltiedig ar draws Pwyllgorau.
However, there is an amazing amount of similarity in the language deployed in the Economic Development Committee’s report on business support and in the Agriculture and Rural Development Committee’s report. In the latter, there was a call on Finance Wales to address the needs of developing rural businesses by giving special attention to the needs of new entrants to farming. In line with that, Plaid Cymru would like to see Finance Wales allocating responsibility for assisting rural businesses to one of its members of staff.
Fodd bynnag, mae’r iaith a ddefnyddir yn adroddiad y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd ar gymorth i fusnesau yn hynod o debyg i iaith adroddiad y Pwyllgor Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig. Yn yr adroddiad olaf, galwyd ar Gyllid Cymru i ymdrin ag anghenion busnesau gwledig sydd yn datblygu drwy roi sylw arbennig i newydd-ddyfodiaid i fyd ffermio. Yn unol â hynny, hoffai Plaid Cymru weld Cyllid Cymru yn dyrannu’r cyfrifoldeb dros gynorthwyo busnesau gwledig i aelod o’i staff.
In the same report, there is also reference to the poor image of Business Connect, and the possibility of a new brand name. That again confirms that there is concern about that name. We need assurances that it will be adequately re-launched and rebranded and sold to rural and urban communities.
Yn yr un adroddiad, cyfeirir hefyd at ddelwedd wael Cyswllt Busnes, a’r posibilrwydd o enw brand newydd. Mae hynny eto yn cadarnhau bod pryder ynglŷn â’r enw hwnnw. Mae angen sicrwydd arnom y caiff ei ail-lansio a’i ailfrandio mewn ffordd ddigonol ac y caiff ei werthu i gymunedau gwledig a threfol.
When I consider the situation in rural Wales, I wonder what on earth the Economic Development Committee can do. One of the recommendations for the National Assembly to follow-up in the Welsh Affairs Select Committee’s report, ‘Social Exclusion in Wales’, was
Pan ystyriaf y sefyllfa yng Nghymru wledig, meddyliaf beth ar y ddaear y gall y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd ei wneud. Un o’r argymhellion i’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol ymchwilio iddo yn adroddiad y Pwyllgor Dethol ar Faterion Cymreig, sef ‘Social Exclusion in Wales’ oedd
‘We welcome the growing awareness of the extent of social exclusion in rural areas. It is vital that funding of services, from both UK Government and the National Assembly, should reflect the needs of rural areas.’
Consider what has happened in rural areas since then, and how much the situation has changed. That report was published long before the effects of foot and mouth disease devastated businesses in all sectors of the rural economy.
Ystyriwch yr hyn a ddigwyddodd mewn ardaloedd gwledig ers hynny, ac i ba raddau y mae’r sefyllfa wedi newid. Cyhoeddwyd yr adroddiad hwnnw ymhell cyn i effeithiau clwy’r traed a’r genau wneud llanastr o fusnesau ym mhob sector o’r economi wledig.
I am sure that Members are all aware that the report published yesterday illustrated the effect of foot and mouth disease on businesses in Wales. It showed that business failure rates have shot up by 42 per cent since Easter due to the huge drop in tourism. The figures showed that Wales has by far the highest rate of businesses going bust in the UK, with 15.9 per cent of businesses going under since January. That surely demonstrates the devastating knock-on effect that the disease has had on small businesses. The number of business failures in Wales has leapt from 304 in the first quarter of this year to 432 during the second quarter.
Yr wyf yn siŵr bod yr Aelodau i gyd yn ymwybodol bod yr adroddiad a gyhoeddwyd ddoe yn dangos effaith clwy’r traed a’r genau ar fusnesau yng Nghymru. Dangosai bod cynnydd sylweddol o 42 y cant mewn cyfraddau busnesau a fethodd ers y Pasg yn sgîl y cwymp enfawr mewn twristiaeth. Dangosodd y ffigurau mai Cymru sydd â’r gyfradd uchaf o fusnesau a aiff yn fethdalwyr o fewn y DU o bell ffordd, gyda 15.9 y cant o fusnesau wedi methu ers Ionawr. Mae hynny’n sicr yn dangos y sgil-effaith andwyol y mae’r clwyf wedi’i gael ar fusnesau bach. Mae nifer y busnesau a fethodd yng Nghymru wedi neidio o 304 yn ystod chwarter cyntaf eleni i 432 yn ystod yr ail chwarter.
As Wales is by far the worst affected area, additional resources and support must be given to support rural areas. As a result, you would expect the Government of Wales to propose definite recommendations in its response to the Welsh Affairs Select Committee’s report. That paper will be discussed at tomorrow’s meeting of the Local Government and Housing Committee. In the Assembly’s response to the report, the point that I quoted earlier will merely be ‘noted’. After all the mounting problems in rural areas, no course of action has been set and no structures have been put in place to help businesses. The paper is simply to be noted. Is this a reflection of how this Labour/Liberal Democrat Government view rural areas? What specific actions does the Government in Wales intend to take to tackle those issues? An effective strategy to deal with the problems of rural areas is lacking. In effect, there are hardly any references to rural areas in the draft national economic development strategy. The Government should ensure that adequate and practical measures are developed to offer employment to young people who wish to stay in their communities. This was the Government’s opportunity. We must judge whether or not it has taken it.
Gan mai Cymru yw’r ardal yr effeithiwyd arni waethaf o bell ffordd, rhaid rhoi adnoddau a chymorth ychwanegol i gefnogi ardaloedd gwledig. O ganlyniad, byddech yn disgwyl i Lywodraeth Cymru gynnig argymhellion pendant yn ei ymateb i adroddiad y Pwyllgor Dethol ar Faterion Cymreig. Trafodir y papur hwnnw yng nghyfarfod Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai yfory. Yn ymateb y Cynulliad i’r adroddiad, dim ond cael ei ‘nodi’ a gaiff y pwynt a ddyfynnais yn gynharach. Wedi’r holl broblemau cynyddol mewn ardaloedd gwledig, ni phennwyd dull gweithredu ac ni sefydlwyd strwythurau i helpu busnesau. Mae’r papur i’w nodi’n unig. A yw hyn yn adlewyrchu’r modd y gwêl y Llywodraeth Lafur/Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol hon ardaloedd gwledig? Pa gamau penodol y mae’r Llywodraeth yng Nghymru yn bwriadu eu cymryd i fynd i’r afael â’r materion hynny? Mae diffyg strategaeth effeithiol i ddelio â phroblemau ardaloedd gwledig. I bob pwrpas, prin y ceir unrhyw gyfeiriadau at ardaloedd gwledig yn y strategaeth datblygu economaidd genedlaethol ddrafft. Dylai’r Llywodraeth sicrhau y datblygir mesurau digonol ac ymarferol er mwyn cynnig cyflogaeth i bobl ifanc sydd yn dymuno aros o fewn eu cymunedau. Dyma oedd cyfle’r Llywodraeth. Rhaid inni farnu pa un a yw wedi ei gymryd ai peidio.
I thank everyone concerned with the review, especially the business organisations and individuals that took part in the consultation. Like other Committee members, I was fortunate enough to attend one of the meetings in Swansea. I also had local discussions with business people and, although having the business support review and the national economic development strategy out to consultation at the same time was onerous on business organisations, the people to whom I talked welcomed both consultations. They were timely and thorough. It is true to say that you will never please all the people all the time. However, we have made a good start.
Diolchaf i bawb sydd yn gysylltiedig â’r adolygiad, yn arbennig y sefydliadau busnes a’r unigolion a gymerodd ran yn yr ymgynghoriad. Fel aelodau eraill o’r Pwyllgor, yr oeddwn yn ddigon ffodus i fynychu un o’r cyfarfodydd yn Abertawe. Cefais innau drafodaethau lleol hefyd â phobl fusnes ac, er bod cael ymgynghoriad ar yr adolygiad cymorth i fusnesau a’r strategaeth datblygu economaidd genedlaethol ar yr un pryd yn feichus i sefydliadau busnes, croesawai’r bobl y siaradais â hwy y ddau ymgynghoriad. Yr oeddent yn amserol ac yn drwyadl. Mae’n wir dweud na fyddwch byth yn plesio pawb bob amser. Fodd bynnag, cafwyd dechrau da.
As others have said, on a local level, it has prompted more inter-agency working. More private sector organisations began to have joint meetings and work more closely on a local level. That is healthy.
Fel y dywedodd eraill, ar lefel leol, mae wedi ysgogi mwy o waith rhyng-asiantaethol. Dechreuodd mwy o sefydliadau’r sector preifat gael cyfarfodydd ar y cyd a gweithio’n agosach ar lefel leol. Mae hynny’n iach.
I also thank Val Feld. She put her heart and soul into this work. We congratulate her on that. She proved herself a real champion of the business community. Mike German said that he thought that Val would watch this Plenary session on television, on Assembly Live. Last time I saw Val, like all other red-blooded females, she was not watching Assembly Live, but the men’s heats at Wimbledon. I am not sure whether or not she is watching this, but if she is, good luck to you, Val. We hope to see you back here soon.
Diolchaf hefyd i Val Feld. Ymroddodd i’r gwaith hwn gorff ac enaid. Fe’i llongyfarchwn ar hynny. Fe’i profodd ei hun yn wir arweinydd o fewn y gymuned fusnes. Dywedodd Mike German y credai y byddai Val yn gwylio’r Cyfarfod Llawn hwn ar y teledu, ar Assembly Live. Y tro diwethaf y gwelais Val, fel pob benyw nwyfus arall, nid oedd yn gwylio Assembly Live, ond rhagbrofion y dynion yn Wimbledon. Nid wyf yn siŵr a yw’n gwylio hwn ai peidio, ond os ydyw, pob lwc i ti, Val. Gobeithiwn dy weld yn ôl yma yn fuan.
The Committee’s first recommendation was to set up an economic policy board; a ‘can do’ group of senior people from private sector and key public agencies. It would be a loose reworking of the Irish model, which works well. It seems disappointing on the face of it that this recommendation has not been taken up by the Cabinet at this stage. However, the Minister has pledged to bring the proposals before the Committee in the autumn, when the national economic development strategy consultation responses will have been collated and evaluated. With the Committee’s agreement, I will make space for this, along with proposals for an economic research monitoring and evaluation unit, in an October agenda to keep the momentum going and to keep the Committee focused on this important work.
Argymhelliad cyntaf y Pwyllgor oedd sefydlu bwrdd polisi economaidd, sef grŵp deheuig o bobl mewn uwch swyddi o’r sector preifat ac asiantaethau cyhoeddus allweddol. Byddai’n seiliedig yn fras ar y model Gwyddelig, sydd yn gweithio’n dda. Ar yr wyneb, ymddengys yn siomedig nad yw’r Cabinet wedi gweithredu ar yr argymhelliad hwn erbyn hyn. Fodd bynnag, mae’r Gweinidog wedi addo dwyn y cynigion ger bron y Pwyllgor yn yr hydref, pan fydd ymatebion i’r strategaeth datblygu economaidd genedlaethol wedi’u coladu a’u gwerthuso. Os bydd y Pwyllgor yn cytuno, gwnaf le i hyn, ynghyd â chynigion ar gyfer uned monitro a gwerthuso ymchwil economaidd, ar agenda fis Hydref er mwyn cadw’r momentwm a chadw ffocws y Pwyllgor ar y gwaith pwysig hwn.
Mike German said that he wishes to retain the name of Business Connect. Others have commented on that. I was initially surprised that Mike wanted to do that, given that the south-east region, which he represents, has the most negative perception of Business Connect. In other areas, such as west, mid and north Wales, the brand is held in higher esteem. For that reason, Mike German was right not to give in to what would have been a knee-jerk reaction.
Dywedodd Mike German ei fod yn dymuno cadw’r enw Cyswllt Busnes. Mae eraill wedi gwneud sylwadau ar hynny. I ddechrau yr oeddwn yn synnu bod Mike am wneud hynny, gan mai rhanbarth y de-ddwyrain, y mae ef yn ei chynrychioli, sydd â’r canfyddiad mwyaf negyddol o Gyswllt Busnes. Mewn ardaloedd eraill, fel gorllewin, canolbarth a gogledd Cymru, mae mwy o barch i’r brand. Oherwydd hynny, yr oedd Mike German yn iawn i beidio ag ildio i’r hyn a fyddai wedi bod yn ymateb byrbwyll.
When commercial companies hit trouble with their own brands, they often find that a relaunch, a new improved model, is sufficient as far as the brand name is concerned but tackling the cause of the unpopularity is the most important issue. That will prove to be the case with Business Connect. We need to ensure that it does what it says on the tin and that it is consistent every time people use the service.
Pan gaiff cwmnïau masnachol drafferth gyda’u brandiau eu hunain, canfyddant yn aml bod ail-lansio model gwell, newydd yn ddigonol cyn belled ag y mae enw’r brand yn y cwestiwn ond mai mynd i’r afael â’r rheswm dros yr amhoblogrwydd yw’r mater pwysicaf. Bydd hynny’n profi’n wir yn achos Cyswllt Busnes. Mae angen inni sicrhau y gwna’r hyn y dylai ei wneud a’i fod yn gyson bob tro y bydd pobl yn defnyddio’r gwasanaeth.
The operation, as well as the common business support gateway, must be truly inclusive. Mike German must pledge to stamp firmly on any empire building or runaway egos, which are to be found in all organisations.
Rhaid i’r broses o weithredu hyn, yn ogystal â’r porth cymorth i fusnesau cyffredin, fod yn wirioneddol gynhwysol. Rhaid i Mike German addo rhoi ei droed i lawr yn gadarn ar unrhyw achos o godi ymerodraethau neu hunan-bwysigrwydd, sydd i’w canfod ym mhob sefydliad.
We all want an assurance, especially in the light of last week’s news about the 42 per cent increase in business failures in tourism and rural businesses in mid Wales, that the Wales Tourist Board will be given every assistance in its business support delivery. It is reaching new heights in its support for businesses at this difficult time.
Yr ydym oll am gael sicrwydd, yn arbennig yng ngoleuni newyddion yr wythnos diwethaf am y cynnydd o 42 y cant o fusnesau sydd yn methu ym maes twristiaeth a busnesau gwledig yng nghanolbarth Cymru, y rhoddir pob cymorth i Fwrdd Croeso Cymru wrth ddarparu cymorth i fusnesau. Mae’n cyrraedd uchelfannau newydd yn y cymorth y mae’n ei roi i fusnesau ar yr amser anodd hwn.
The case for a business ombudsman is compelling. The Committee has not given up on this. The Assembly review of ombudsman services must come first. The Cabinet is right in its handling of this matter. We must ensure that the brief for a business ombudsman, when it comes, is wide enough to make it an effective tool for Welsh businesses.
Mae’r achos dros ombwdsmon busnes yn un grymus. Nid yw’r Pwyllgor wedi rhoi’r gorau iddi yn hyn o beth. Rhaid i adolygiad y Cynulliad o wasanaethau ombwdsmon ddod yn gyntaf. Mae’r Cabinet yn iawn yn y ffordd y mae’n ymdrin â’r mater hwn. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod y brîff ar gyfer ombwdsmon busnes, pan ddaw, yn ddigon eang i’w wneud yn arf effeithiol ar gyfer busnesau Cymru.
Although Plaid Cymru is proposing amendments, we are enthusiastic about the general thrust of the business support review. It is a good example of all parties working together as a Committee, under the enthusiastic leadership of Val Feld. I add my thanks to our special adviser, Jim Driscoll, who I am certain put in an enormous amount of his own time to ensure that this review was a success, and to the officials who worked far beyond the call of duty. Let us tell the world outside that this Assembly is capable of inclusive working to improve the lives of the people of Wales.
Er bod Plaid Cymru yn cyflwyno gwelliannau, yr ydym yn frwdfrydig ynglŷn â chyfeiriad cyffredinol yr adolygiad cymorth i fusnesau. Mae’n enghraifft dda o bob plaid yn cydweithio fel Pwyllgor, o dan arweinyddiaeth frwdfrydig Val Feld. Ychwanegaf fy niolch i’n hymgynghorydd arbennig, Jim Driscoll. Yr wyf yn sicr iddo roi llawer iawn o’i amser ei hun i sicrhau bod yr adolygiad hwn yn llwyddiant, ac i’r swyddogion a weithiodd ymhell y tu hwnt i’r hyn a oedd yn ofynnol o ran dyletswydd. Gadewch inni ddweud wrth y byd y tu allan y gall y Cynulliad hwn weithio mewn ffordd gynhwysol er mwyn gwella bywydau pobl Cymru.
Two major improvements should follow this review. First, the simplification of the structure for business support. Some years ago, I took the leader of the Social Democrats in Kiruna, Lapland on a tour of Wales. He was preparing an official government report on business support in mining areas suffering job losses. It took an enormous amount of planning to fit in all of the meetings with the relevant agencies, authorities and organisations concerned with industrial development in the south Wales Valleys.
Dylai dau welliant mawr ddilyn yr adolygiad hwn. Yn gyntaf, symleiddio’r strwythur ar gyfer cymorth i fusnesau. Rai blynyddoedd yn ôl, euthum ag arweinydd Democratiaid Sosialaidd Kiruna, y Lapdir ar daith o amgylch Cymru. Yr oedd wrthi’n paratoi adroddiad swyddogol i’r llywodraeth ar gymorth i fusnesau mewn ardaloedd glofaol lle yr oedd swyddi yn cael eu colli. Cymerodd lawer iawn o gynllunio er mwyn gwneud lle i bob un o’r cyfarfodydd gyda’r asiantaethau, yr awdurdodau a’r sefydliadau perthnasol a oedd yn ymwneud â datblygiad diwydiannol yng Nghymoedd de Cymru.
I saw the report. It was polite, but it will not come as a surprise that the recommendation was that Norrland’s economic development should be in the hands of a single organisation, Framtid Kiruna. So, Lars Essling came to Wales to learn how not to tackle the problem. We can learn from other countries how to succeed, including Ireland, where we had a valuable visit. Therefore, we support the recommendation for a single, well-resourced gateway. The consultation overwhelmingly points to the Welsh Development Agency in this respect.
Gwelais yr adroddiad. Yr oedd yn gwrtais, ond ni chewch eich synnu i glywed mai’r argymhelliad oedd y dylai datblygiad economaidd Norrland fod yn nwylo un sefydliad unigol, sef Framtid Kiruna. Felly, daeth Lars Essling i Gymru er mwyn dysgu sut i beidio â mynd i’r afael â’r broblem. Gallwn ddysgu oddi wrth wledydd eraill sut i lwyddo, gan gynnwys Iwerddon, lle y cawsom ymweliad gwerthfawr. Felly, cefnogwn yr argymhelliad am borth unigol, â digon o adnoddau. Mae’r ymgynghoriad yn cyfeirio’n ddigamsyniol at Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru yn hyn o beth.
However, while recognising the advantages of a single, strong and effective body to do this work, we see the need for the opportunity of an independent review. We welcome the commitment by the Minister to set up an appropriate investigative mechanism. I believe that the word ‘ombudsman’ was shorthand. The business community needs to feel that it is not in the hands of one organisation.
Fodd bynnag, tra’n cydnabod manteision corff unigol, cryf ac effeithiol i wneud y gwaith hwn, gwelwn yr angen am gyfle i gael adolygiad annibynnol. Croesawn ymrwymiad y Gweinidog i sefydlu dull ymchwilio priodol. Credaf mai’r gair ‘ombwdsmon’ oedd y fersiwn llaw fer. Mae angen i’r gymuned fusnes deimlo nad yw yn nwylo un sefydliad.
Do you not believe that the concept of an ombudsman could lead to a bureaucratic nightmare? People whose projects are rejected for financial support will naturally appeal to the ombudsman and create a blockage in the chain.
Oni chredwch y gallai’r cysyniad o ombwdsmon arwain at hunllef fiwrocrataidd? Bydd pobl y gwrthodir cymorth ariannol i’w prosiectau yn apelio at yr ombwdsmon yn naturiol gan greu rhwystr yn y gadwyn.
I would be cautious before establishing a large bureaucratic organisation of the kind that you fear. That is why I think that we, as a Committee, should work on the appropriate mechanism.
Byddwn yn petruso cyn sefydlu sefydliad biwrocrataidd mawr o’r math yr ofnwch. Dyna pam y credaf y dylem ni, fel Pwyllgor, weithio ar y dull priodol.
The other lesson that we have learned from other countries is the importance of providing business support in the context of an overall and agreed strategy. Some lessons take a long time to learn. It was in the 1930s that the first Saltsjöbaden conference took place. That led to the remarkable Nordic model of economic development, where a strategy is agreed jointly by government, industry and trade unions. That was the pattern adopted by Ireland, several years before it began to get substantial support from the European Union. When you search for the reasons for Ireland’s economic success, it is a mistake to think that it is purely as a result of Objective 1 money. It was done within the context of all the main players in the Irish economy having worked out the agreed strategy.
Y wers arall a ddysgwyd gennym o wledydd eraill yw pwysigrwydd darparu cymorth i fusnesau yng nghyd-destun strategaeth gyffredinol ac un y cytunwyd arni. Cymer amser maith i ddysgu rhai gwersi. Yn ystod y 1930au y cynhaliwyd cynhadledd gyntaf Saltsjöbaden. Arweiniodd hynny at y model Nordig hynod o ddatblygu economaidd, lle y cytunir ar strategaeth ar y cyd gan y llywodraeth, diwydiant ac undebau llafur. Dyna’r patrwm a fabwysiadwyd gan Iwerddon, sawl blwyddyn cyn iddo ddechrau cael cymorth sylweddol gan yr Undeb Ewropeaidd. Pan chwiliwch am y rhesymau dros lwyddiant economaidd Iwerddon, mae’n gamgymeriad meddwl ei fod o ganlyniad i arian Amcan 1 yn unig. Fe’i gwnaethpwyd o fewn y cyd-destun bod pob un o brif chwaraewyr economi Iwerddon wedi cynllunio’r strategaeth y cytunwyd arni.
The proposal in this business review to establish an economic policy board is important. It has not been adequately emphasised. That could be our version of Saltsjöbaden and the long-term rewards could be as great.
Mae’r cynnig yn yr adolygiad busnes hwn i sefydlu bwrdd polisi economaidd yn bwysig. Ni chafodd ei bwysleisio ddigon. Gallai hynny fod yn fersiwn bersonol i ni o Saltsjöbaden a gallai’r gwobrwyon hirdymor fod yr un mor fawr.
It is a great pleasure to listen to Phil Williams. Sometimes the proceedings in the Economic Development Committee get a little ponderous. However, you can always rely on Phil to lighten the tone with a few light-hearted anecdotes and make our proceedings more amusing. Thanks, Phil, I appreciate that.
Mae’n bleser mawr gwrando ar Phil Williams. Weithiau aiff y trafodion yn y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd ychydig yn drwm. Fodd bynnag, gallwch ddibynnu bob amser ar Phil i ysgafnhau’r awyrgylch gydag ychydig hanesion ysgafn a gwneud ein trafodaethau yn fwy difyr. Diolch, Phil, gwerthfawrogaf hynny.
I also express my support for Val, who was Chair of the Economic Development Committee during all of the review’s work. The fact that we completed the report in a way that commanded support from all the parties is in no small part due to her tremendous and heroic efforts as Chair of the Committee. I join others in sending her our best wishes. I hope that she will soon rejoin us, fully recovered. It is also a pleasure to see Christine Gwyther here. She has had some difficulties of her own, which has given me the opportunity to chair the Economic Development Committee for a few meetings. I am not forecasting an early end to my temporary promotion, but it is good to see you back, Chris, and I hope that you will be back with us at the soonest possible opportunity, with your personal difficulties resolved.
Mynegaf hefyd fy nghefnogaeth i Val, a fu’n Gadeirydd y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd yn ystod yr holl waith ar yr adolygiad. Mae’r ffaith inni gwblhau’r adroddiad mewn ffordd a sicrhaodd gefnogaeth gan bob plaid yn ddyledus i raddau helaeth i’w hymdrechion aruthrol ac arwrol fel Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor. Ymunaf ag eraill i anfon ein dymuniadau gorau ati. Gobeithiaf y bydd yn ailymuno â ni yn fuan, wedi gwellhad llwyr. Mae hefyd yn bleser gweld Christine Gwyther yma. Cafodd rai trafferthion personol, a roddodd y cyfle imi gadeirio’r Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd am ychydig gyfarfodydd. Nid darogan diwedd cynnar i’m dyrchafiad dros dro yr wyf, ond mae’n dda eich gweld yn ôl, Chris, a gobeithiaf y byddwch yn ôl gyda ni ar y cyfle cynharaf posibl, gyda’ch problemau personol wedi’u datrys.
The report itself identified some confusion and a plethora of business support providers. I join Alun Cairns in singling out Jim Driscoll, who is the adviser to the Committee. He did a tremendous amount of work in identifying the plethora of different organisations and the confusion. He played no small part in drawing up the recommendations that informed the Committee’s final report. That report has some clear and useful recommendations. I broadly welcome and support the motion as it stands with, perhaps, three brief caveats. First, the WDA is identified, quite properly, as the organisation that must have the lead role in delivering business support. I hope, however, as a result of our deliberations and the comments that have been made to the WDA, that it understands that while it has the lead role, it does not have an exclusive role. The WDA must work better than it has done previously on encouraging the necessary partnerships on the ground to ensure that Business Connect is a reality and that all of the providers have a sense of common ownership.
Nododd yr adroddiad ei hun rywfaint o ddryswch a llu o ddarparwyr cymorth i fusnesau. Ymunaf ag Alun Cairns wrth enwi Jim Driscoll, sef ymgynghorydd y Pwyllgor. Gwnaeth waith aruthrol wrth nodi’r sefydliadau gwahanol lu a’r dryswch. Chwaraeodd ran bwysig yn y gwaith o lunio’r argymhellion a fu’n sail i adroddiad terfynol y Pwyllgor. Mae i’r adroddiad hwnnw rai argymhellion clir a defnyddiol. Croesawaf y cynnig yn fras a chefnogaf y cynnig fel ag y mae, gyda thri cafeat byr efallai. Yn gyntaf, nodir mai’r WDA, yn gywir felly, yw’r sefydliad a ddylai gael y brif rôl o ddarparu cymorth i fusnesau. Gobeithiaf, fodd bynnag, o ganlyniad i’n trafodaethau a’r sylwadau a wnaethpwyd i’r WDA, ei fod yn deall er mai ef sydd â’r brif rôl, nad oes ganddo rôl neilltuedig. Rhaid i’r WDA weithio’n well nag y gwnaeth yn flaenorol o ran annog y partneriaethau angenrheidiol yn ymarferol i sicrhau bod Cyswllt Busnes yn realiti a bod gan bob un o’r darparwyr ymwybyddiaeth ei fod yn eiddo i bob un ohonynt.
However, having prescribed what it should not do, I urge the Minister not to be too prescriptive in his discussions with the WDA. Our general view ought to be—and this is what emerged in the Committee—that this is the WDA’s responsibility. We do not want to prescribe or tell it how to deliver this. The WDA has the responsibility. It should go away to draw up the structures and delivery mechanisms and get on with the job.
Fodd bynnag, wedi rhagnodi yr hyn na ddylai ei wneud, anogaf y Gweinidog i beidio â bod yn rhy gyfarwyddol yn ei drafodaethau gyda’r WDA. Ein barn gyffredinol ddylai fod—a dyma a ddaeth i’r amlwg yn y Pwyllgor—mai cyfrifoldeb y WDA ydyw. Nid ydym am ei gyfarwyddo na dweud wrtho sut i gyflawni hyn. Cyfrifoldeb y WDA ydyw. Dylai fynd i ffwrdd i lunio’r strwythurau a’r dulliau gweithredu a bwrw ymlaen â’r gwaith.
The second caveat is that there is a sense of a lack of urgency. The report was finalised in January and we have considered it for over a year, so nothing that is in the report could have come as a surprise to the Minister or his predecessor or to the relevant division within the Assembly. However, looking at our current timetable, realistically there is no likelihood of us implementing anything as a result of this report before January next year at the earliest. We have had, therefore, 12 months of deliberating on this matter. We should develop a greater sense of urgency, particularly given the Welsh economy’s problems over the last six to 12 months. I do not want to talk at length about Corus, foot and mouth disease, the rural economy or the manufacturing industry’s problems. However, we have had all those problems. The Welsh economy is not going from strength to strength. We ought to have a greater degree of urgency on the implementation of these measures.
Yr ail gafeat yw bod ymdeimlad o ddiffyg brys. Cwblhawyd yr adroddiad fis Ionawr ac yr ydym wedi’i ystyried ers dros flwyddyn, felly ni allai unrhyw beth sydd yn yr adroddiad fod wedi synnu’r Gweinidog na’i ragflaenydd na’r is-adran berthnasol o fewn y Cynulliad. Fodd bynnag, o edrych ar ein hamserlen bresennol, a bod yn realistig, nid yw’n debygol y byddwn yn gweithredu unrhyw beth o ganlyniad i’r adroddiad hwn cyn Ionawr y flwyddyn nesaf ar y cynharaf. Cawsom, felly, 12 mis o drafod ar y mater hwn. Dylem ddatblygu mwy o ymdeimlad o frys, yn arbennig o gofio problemau economi Cymru dros y chwech i 12 mis diwethaf. Nid wyf am siarad yn faith am Corus, clwy’r traed a’r genau, yr economi wledig na phroblemau’r diwydiant gweithgynhyrchu. Fodd bynnag, cawsom yr holl broblemau hynny. Nid yw economi Cymru yn mynd o nerth i nerth. Dylem weithredu’r mesurau hyn ar fwy o frys.
My final caveat is on an economic policy board. It is a great tribute to the way that Val and the Committee operated that, although this could potentially have been a matter that divided us, it emerged as an issue that all parties could support. I was a little concerned, therefore, to hear a touch of prevarication in the Minister’s comments today and when we discussed this matter previously in Committee. He suggested that he was less than 100 per cent enthusiastic about this proposition. That is a worry. If the Minister’s only concern is that he wants to deal with it within the context of the national economic development strategy, which is what he said today, I accept that, because an economic policy board is about more than delivering business support. The board is to look, as far as is possible in a Welsh context, at the entire macroeconomic situation in Wales. Therefore, it is right to consider an economic policy board in the context of the national economic development strategy. If that is the case, I hope that the Minister will ensure that an economic policy board proceeds, with the fullest possible partnership represented on it.
Mae fy nghafeat olaf ynglŷn â bwrdd polisi economaidd. Mae’n deyrnged fawr i’r ffordd y gweithredodd Val a’r Pwyllgor, er y gallai hyn fod wedi bod yn fater i’n rhannu, iddo ddatblygu’n fater y gallai pob plaid ei gefnogi. Yr oeddwn ychydig yn bryderus, felly, i glywed mymryn o amwysedd yn sylwadau’r Gweinidog heddiw a phan drafodasom y mater hwn yn flaenorol yn y Pwyllgor. Awgrymodd nad oedd yn hollol frwdfrydig ynglŷn â’r cynnig hwn. Mae hynny yn bryder. Os mai unig bryder y Gweinidog yw ei fod am ddelio ag ef o fewn cyd-destun y strategaeth datblygu economaidd genedlaethol, sef yr hyn a ddywedodd heddiw, derbyniaf hynny, gan fod bwrdd polisi economaidd yn fwy na mater o ddarparu cymorth i fusnesau. Dylai’r bwrdd edrych, cyn belled ag y bo’n bosibl yng nghyd-destun Cymru, ar y sefyllfa facroeconomaidd gyfan yng Nghymru. Felly, mae’n briodol ystyried bwrdd polisi economaidd yng nghyd-destun y strategaeth datblygu economaidd genedlaethol. Os felly, gobeithiaf y bydd y Gweinidog yn sicrhau bod bwrdd polisi economaidd yn datblygu, ac y cynrychiolir y bartneriaeth lawnaf bosibl arno.
I welcome this debate and the consultation initiated by the Assembly on the report of the Economic Development Committee. I also thank Val Feld for her work, and wish her a speedy recovery.
Croesawaf y ddadl hon a’r ymgynghori a gychwynnwyd gan y Cynulliad ar adroddiad y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd. Diolchaf hefyd i Val Feld am ei gwaith, gan ddymuno adferiad buan iddi.
As the Cabinet’s response acknowledges, this review is a timely one, given current economic circumstances, and especially given the opportunity that we now have in Wales under Objective 1 to restructure and revitalise the Welsh economy and to make it more prosperous, sustainable and better equipped to meet the challenges ahead. I make no secret of the fact that I am a fan of inward investment. Inward investment helped my constituency to tackle many of the problems it faced after the demise of traditional industries, provided jobs for many constituents and therefore eased unemployment in communities.
Fel y mae ymateb y Cabinet yn ei gydnabod, mae’r adolygiad hwn yn un amserol, o gofio’r amgylchiadau economaidd presennol, ac yn arbennig o gofio’r cyfle sydd gennym bellach yng Nghymru o dan Amcan 1 i ailstrwythuro ac adfywio economi Cymru a’i gwneud yn fwy llewyrchus, cynaliadwy ac yn barotach i wynebu’r heriau o’i blaen. Ni chuddiaf y ffaith fy mod yn cefnogi mewnfuddsoddiad. Bu mewnfuddsoddiad o gymorth i’m hetholaeth i fynd i’r afael â llawer o’r problemau a wynebodd yn dilyn diflaniad y diwydiannau traddodiadol, darparodd swyddi ar gyfer llawer o etholwyr ac felly lleihaodd ddiweithdra o fewn cymunedau.
However, even the biggest fans of inward investment must admit that an appropriate balance must be struck. As important as inward investors are, and much as we must work with them to secure investment and jobs, we must also work with and support our indigenous businesses. Those are the small and medium-sized enterprises that we hail as the future of our economy, the entrepreneurs who will lead the way in economic regeneration and who will bring new jobs and opportunities to Wales’s most deprived communities. Yet those are also the businesses that share precious little of the limelight with their multinational counterparts. They are rarely in the national headlines and are a long way from being household names, because none of these companies has hundreds or thousands of employees to make redundant, nor do they have hundreds or thousands of new jobs to offer in one fell swoop. However, these businesses are a vital part of local economies, communities and people’s lives. The closure of a small business in a small town in my Ogmore constituency may not be a big deal in the eyes of the nation’s broadsheets, but it is a big deal to the local people and communities that must bear the brunt of the closure and job losses.
Fodd bynnag, rhaid i gefnogwyr pennaf mewnfuddsoddiad hyd yn oed gyfaddef bod yn rhaid cael y cydbwysedd priodol. Er mor bwysig yw mewnfuddsoddwyr, ac er bod yn rhaid inni gydweithio â hwy i sicrhau buddsoddiad a swyddi, rhaid inni hefyd gydweithio â’n busnesau cynhenid a’u cefnogi. Dyna’r busnesau bach a chanolig eu maint y cyfeiriwn atynt fel dyfodol ein heconomi, yr entrepreneuriaid a fydd yn arwain y ffordd ym maes adfywio economaidd ac a fydd yn dod â swyddi a chyfleoedd newydd i gymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig Cymru. Eto i gyd dyna’r busnesau hefyd sydd yn rhannu ychydig iawn o’r sylw â’r busnesau rhyngwladol sydd yn cyfateb iddynt. Anaml y maent yn y penawdau cenedlaethol ac maent ymhell o fod yn enwau amlwg, gan nad oes gan unrhyw un o’r cwmnïau hyn gannoedd neu filoedd o gyflogeion i’w diswyddo, ac nid oes ganddynt ychwaith gannoedd neu filoedd o swyddi newydd i’w cynnig ar un ergyd. Fodd bynnag, mae’r busnesau hyn yn rhan hanfodol o economïau lleol, cymunedau a bywydau pobl. Efallai nad yw cau busnes bach mewn tref fach yn fy etholaeth i, sef Ogwr, yn rhywbeth mawr yng ngolwg papurau dalen lydan Prydain, ond mae’n rhywbeth mawr i’r bobl a’r cymunedau lleol sydd yn gorfod dioddef effeithiau cau’r busnes a’r swyddi a gollir.
We often talk in the Assembly about indigenous, home-grown businesses that are confident in driving forward the Welsh economy. Given that we understand that they are crucial to our future prosperity, we must ensure that we deliver for them. It is not always the case that these companies feel valued in the way that they should. Business people in my constituency have expressed real and serious concerns that they often feel left behind, unsupported and confused by the complexity of the channels of advice and assistance available to them. That can happen when a small business is struggling, in need of assistance with a query and searching for a solution to an immediate problem. Local entrepreneurs have also told me that they all too often do not feel valued in the same way that inward investors are. They feel that they face an upward struggle when negotiating their way around bureaucracy and red tape and that, historically, the system has not met their support and advice needs. They also feel that, for decades, the system has been guilty of favouritism towards big business, while neglecting the needs of small and medium-sized indigenous industries. While inward investment is crucial, so too is diversity. If the Assembly is serious about economic regeneration, we must ensure that we support diversity in a real and meaningful way.
Soniwn yn aml yn y Cynulliad am fusnesau cartref cynhenid sydd yn hyderus yn y gwaith o lywio economi Cymru yn ei blaen. O gofio ein bod yn deall eu bod yn hollbwysig i’n ffyniant yn y dyfodol, rhaid inni sicrhau ein bod yn cyflawni pethau ar eu rhan. Nid yw’r cwmnïau hyn yn teimlo bob amser eu bod yn werthfawr yn y ffordd y dylent. Mae pobl fusnes o fewn fy etholaeth wedi mynegi pryderon gwirioneddol a difrifol eu bod yn teimlo’n aml eu bod wedi’u gadael ar ôl, yn ddigefnogaeth ac wedi drysu gan gymhlethdod y sianelau cyngor a chymorth sydd ar gael iddynt. Gall hynny ddigwydd pan fydd busnes bach mewn trafferth, pan fydd angen cymorth gydag ymholiad ac yn chwilio am ateb i broblem uniongyrchol. Mae entrepreneuriaid lleol hefyd wedi dweud wrthyf eu bod yn teimlo’n aml na roddir yr un gwerth arnynt hwy ag ar fewnfuddsoddwyr. Teimlant eu bod yn wynebu brwydr anodd wrth negodi eu ffordd o gwmpas biwrocratiaeth ac nad yw’r system, yn hanesyddol, wedi diwallu eu hanghenion o ran cymorth a chyngor. Teimlant hefyd y bu’r system, ers degawdau, yn euog o ffafrio busnesau mawr, tra’n esgeuluso anghenion diwydiannau cynhenid bach a chanolig eu maint. Er bod mewnfuddsoddiad yn hollbwysig, mae hynny yn wir am amrywiaeth hefyd. Os yw’r Cynulliad o ddifrif ynglŷn ag adfywio economaidd, rhaid inni sicrhau y cefnogwn amrywiaeth mewn ffordd real ac ystyrlon.
That is why this report must be welcomed as a significant step forward in offering a solution to the problems faced, as well as the much-needed support for businesses in Wales. Businesses in my constituency, and throughout Wales, will welcome and benefit from the moves to ensure better management, co-ordination and quality of public sector provision in terms of business support. I particularly welcome the statement that any service offered should be sensitive to local needs. With so much variance in the economy throughout Wales, we must recognise that the needs of one business are not necessarily the same as those of a business 50 miles down the M4. I also welcome the commitment to equal opportunities, sustainability and social inclusion in the Cabinet’s response.
Dyna pam bod yn rhaid croesawu’r adroddiad hwn fel cam arwyddocaol ymlaen tuag at gynnig ateb i’r problemau a wynebir, yn ogystal â’r cymorth ar gyfer busnesau yng Nghymru y mae ei ddirfawr angen. Bydd busnesau yn fy etholaeth i, a ledled Cymru, yn croesawu’r symudiadau i sicrhau system well o reoli, cydgysylltu ac ansawdd darpariaeth y sector cyhoeddus yn nhermau cymorth i fusnesau a byddant yn manteisio’n fawr yn eu sgîl. Croesawaf yn arbennig y datganiad y dylai unrhyw wasanaeth a gynigir fod yn sensitif i anghenion lleol. Â chymaint o amrywiant yn yr economi ledled Cymru, rhaid inni gydnabod nad yw anghenion un busnes o reidrwydd yr un fath ag anghenion busnes arall 50 milltir i lawr yr M4. Croesawaf hefyd yr ymrwymiad i gyfle cyfartal, cynaliadwyedd a chynhwysedd cymdeithasol yn ymateb y Cabinet.
Of greatest significance, however, is the enormous benefit to small and medium-sized businesses of having access to a one-stop shop or gateway. Much has already been said on that matter. Will the Minister assure me that, if the WDA takes on responsibility for all business services for small, large and inward investors, small and medium businesses will not lose out and their needs will not be forgotten and overshadowed by the needs of larger businesses?
Yr hyn sydd fwyaf arwyddocaol, fodd bynnag, yw’r fantais enfawr i fusnesau bach a chanolig eu maint sef cael mynediad i siop neu borth un cam. Dywedwyd llawer eisoes ar y mater hwnnw. A wnaiff y Gweinidog fy sicrhau, os bydd y WDA yn ymgymryd â chyfrifoldeb dros bob gwasanaeth busnes ar gyfer buddsoddwyr bach, mawr a mewnfuddsoddwyr, na fydd busnesau bach a chanolig eu maint ar eu colled ac nad anghofir eu hanghenion na’u bwrw i’r cysgod gan anghenion busnesau mwy?
I ask that everything is done to impress upon the WDA the need to work closely with, and gain the confidence of, other partners in this venture, including public agencies at national and local levels, local authorities and enterprise agencies. I conclude by asking—
Gofynnaf i bopeth gael ei wneud er mwyn argraffu ar feddwl y WDA yr angen i gydweithio’n agos â phartneriaid eraill yn y fenter hon, ac i ennyn eu hyder, gan gynnwys asiantaethau cyhoeddus ar lefelau cenedlaethol a lleol, awdurdodau lleol ac asiantaethau menter. Dof i ben drwy ofyn—
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 97
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 97
Order. Five minutes have passed. You are allowed one further sentence to conclude.
Trefn. Mae pum munud wedi mynd heibio. Cewch un frawddeg arall i orffen.
We must learn lessons from the past and seize this opportunity to build the foundations for a truly successful and revitalised economy.
Rhaid inni ddysgu gwersi o’r gorffennol ac achub ar y cyfle hwn i osod y seiliau ar gyfer economi wirioneddol lwyddiannus ac adfywiedig.
I welcome the Economic Development Committee’s report. If the WDA is given the lead role in full consultation, as per the Cabinet’s recommendation, which, despite some criticism, has the overwhelming support of the 63 respondents, it must ensure that it includes all the main public agencies, including the Wales Tourist Board, Education and Learning Wales, local authorities, the Environment Agency and enterprise agencies. Moreover, local branches of Business Connect must be strengthened and current good practice shared. Business Connect Neath Port Talbot, which has an excellent reputation, has responded to the Economic Development Committee’s report and it has stated that two-way communication between policy makers and service providers is vital. I agree with Business Connect Neath Port Talbot that it is vital that all partners are considered to be equal and that communication between policy makers and service providers is improved. I shall pay close attention to that in my Neath constituency to ensure that that happens. While partnership at local, regional and national level should remain, centralist control must not be allowed to dilute local provision.
Crosawaf adroddiad y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd. Os rhoddir y brif ran i’r WDA yn yr ymgynghoriad llawn, yn unol ag argymhelliad y Cynulliad, sydd â chefnogaeth ysgubol y 63 ymatebwr, er gwaethaf rhywfaint o feirniadaeth, rhaid iddo sicrhau ei fod yn cynnwys y cyfan o’r prif asiantaethau cyhoeddus, gan gynnwys Bwrdd Croeso Cymru, Dysgu ac Addysgu Cymru, awdurdodau lleol, Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd ac asiantaethau menter. At hynny, dylid atgyfnerthu canghennau lleol Cyswllt Busnes a dylid rhannu arfer da cyfredol. Mae Cyswllt Busnes Castell Nedd Port Talbot, sydd ag enw rhagorol iddo, wedi ymateb i adroddiad y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd a ddatganodd bod cyfathrebu dwy ffordd rhwng gwneuthurwyr polisi a darparwyr gwasanaethau yn allweddol. Cytunaf â Chyswllt Busnes Castell Nedd Port Talbot ei bod yn hanfodol fod y partneriaid i gyd yn cael eu hystyried yn gyfartal ac y dylid gwella’r cyfathrebu rhwng gwneuthurwyr polisi a darparwyr gwasanaethau. Byddaf yn talu sylw manwl i hynny yn fy etholaeth yng Nghastell Nedd er mwyn sicrhau bod hynny’n digwydd. Er y dylid parhau â phartneriaeth ar lefel leol, rhanbarthol a chenedlaethol, ni ddylid caniatáu i reolaeth ganoliaethol wanhau’r ddarpariaeth leol.
The problems in developing a small business indigenous economy have not yet been addressed. There are few countries, or even regions, within Europe that have succeeding in doing so, short of identifying a particular growth sector or doing so on the back of some other major economic driver in their region. I anticipate Members such as Alun Cairns spreading the same old doom-and-gloom message in two or three years’ time. There will be a problem in identifying outcomes if we do not acknowledge that this is a genuine problem across Western Europe. It is not such a problem in the United States, but it is in every other European economy. It is certainly a problem in the Irish Republic, where the indigenous small enterprise sector has contracted over the past 12 to 18 months, notwithstanding the success of organisations such as the Industrial Development Agency Ireland and Enterprise Ireland.
Hyd yma, nid ymdrinwyd â’r problemau o ran datblygu economi gynhenid yn seiliedig ar fusnesau bach. Dim ond ychydig iawn o wledydd, neu ranbarthau hyd yn oed, o fewn Ewrop a lwyddodd i wneud hynny, heblaw iddynt nodi sector twf arbennig neu iddynt wneud hynny ar gefn rhyw yrrwr economaidd mawr arall yn eu rhanbarth. Rhagwelaf y bydd Aelodau megis Alun Cairns yn lledaenu’r un hen neges o anobaith ymhen dwy neu dair blynedd. Bydd problem o ran nodi’r canlyniadau os nad ydym yn cydnabod bod hon yn broblem wirioneddol ar draws Gorllewin Ewrop. Nid yw’n gymaint o broblem yn yr Unol Daleithiau, ond mae’n broblem ym mhob economi Ewropeaidd arall. Mae’n sicr yn broblem yng Ngweriniaeth Iwerddon, ble mae’r sector menter bach brodorol wedi tynhau rhwng y 12 mis a’r 18 mis diwethaf, er gwaethaf llwyddiant sefydliadau megis Asiantaeth Datblygu Diwydiannol Iwerddon a Menter Iwerddon.
Will you recognise that the Assembly’s goal is growth of gross domestic product per capita, in line with the Minister’s target, no matter how fast we need to grow to achieve it? If we do not achieve it, surely that would be a condemnation of the Welsh Government’s economic policy?
A wnewch chi gydnabod mai nod y Cynulliad yw twf yn y cynnyrch mewnwladol crynswth y pen, yn unol â tharged y Gweinidog, waeth pa mor gyflym y mae angen inni dyfu i’w gyflawni? Os nad ydym yn cyflawni hynny, oni fyddai hynny’n sicr yn gondemniad o bolisi economaidd Llywodraeth Cymru?
That is a fair comment. However, I am pointing out that giving good business advice is not a simple ‘golden egg’ solution. We shall succeed relatively easily, whereas virtually every other region in Europe has not succeeded without the two preconditions, that is, identifying a growth sector, or being able to operate on the back of another more successful growth economic sector. I endorse Gwenda Thomas’s comments: in Neath Port Talbot we have achieved many of the policy’s goals. I shall not repeat her remarks. However, we have succeeded in creating a good brand image.
Mae hynny’n bwynt teg. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn tanlinellu nad ateb delfrydol yw darparu cyngor busnes da. Byddwn yn llwyddo’n gymharol hawdd, er nad oes bron unrhyw ranbarth arall yn Ewrop wedi llwyddo heb y ddau ragamod, hynny yw, nodi sector twf, neu feddu ar y gallu i weithredu ar gefn sector twf mwy llwyddiannus arall. Cefnogaf sylwadau Gwenda Thomas: cyflawnasom nifer o nodau’r polisi yng Nghastell Nedd Port Talbot. Nid wyf am ailadrodd ei sylwadau. Fodd bynnag, llwyddasom i greu delwedd brand dda.
There is a fairly clearly identified single point of access into a single agency, but it makes itself accessible in several different locations locally to make it easier for entrepreneurs and potential entrepreneurs to develop their businesses. The other interesting feature about Neath Port Talbot Business Connect is that it is not just a signposting agency, which seems slightly overemphasised in the report. It also provides a range of services itself or through partnership or, on occasion, brings in outside contractors. Business Connect, Neath Port Talbot, a public sector organisation, is able to deliver a high quality service. In the recommendations and in some of the Cabinet’s conclusions in the document, there was almost a bias towards the idea that public sector organisations are not able to deliver to the same quality as private sector ones. In Neath Port Talbot we have shown that a public sector organisation can deliver a high quality service through partnership.
Mae pwynt mynediad eithaf eglur wedi ei nodi ar gyfer asiantaeth unigol, ond mae ar gael mewn nifer o leoliadau lleol gwahanol er mwyn ei gwneud yn haws i entrepeneuriaid a darpar entrepeneuriaid ddatblygu eu busnesau. Y nodwedd ddiddorol arall am Gyswllt Busnes Castell Nedd Port Talbot yw nad asiantaeth gyfeirio yn unig ydyw, er yr ymddengys i hyn gael ei orbwysleisio braidd yn yr adroddiad. Mae hefyd yn darparu amrywiaeth o wasanaethau ei hun neu drwy bartneriaeth neu, weithiau, mae’n cyflogi contractwyr allanol. Mae Cyswllt Busnes Castell Nedd Port Talbot, sydd yn sefydliad sector cyhoeddus, yn gallu cyflwyno gwasanaeth o ansawdd uchel. Yn yr argymhellion a rhai o gasgliadau’r Cabinet yn y ddogfen, bron y ceir tuedd o blaid y syniad nad yw sefydliadau sector cyhoeddus yn gallu cyflwyno’r un ansawdd â rhai yn y sector preifat. Dangosasom yng Nghastell Nedd Port Talbot y gall sefydliad sector cyhoeddus gyflwyno gwasanaeth o ansawdd drwy bartneriaeth.
The points on the WDA were well made, and I shall not repeat them. Many of the aspects of this particular model, including developing a one-stop shop and providing a wide range of services under one roof, such as happens in Neath Port Talbot, are also provided by Enterprise Ireland. If you go to Enterprise Ireland’s offices, you are not just signposted to other agencies. It is prepared to provide a wide range of services under its own umbrella in its own offices. We should strive to emulate that.
Gwnaethpwyd pwyntiau da ynglŷn â’r WDA, ac nid wyf am eu hailadrodd. Mae sawl agwedd ar y model arbennig hwn, gan gynnwys datblygu siop un cam a darparu amrywiaeth eang o wasanaethau o dan un tô, fel sydd yn digwydd yng Nghastell Nedd Port Talbot, hefyd yn cael eu darparu gan Fenter Iwerddon. Os ewch i swyddfeydd Menter Iwerddon, ni chewch eich cyfeirio at asiantaethau eraill yn unig. Mae’n fodlon darparu amrywiaeth eang o wasanaethau o dan ei ymbarél ei hun yn ei swyddfeydd ei hun. Dylem geisio efelychu hynny.
Finally, on the ombudsman, I am not sure whether that is the right solution. Many people in the business sector, if they disagree with the local business support agency, would want access to another independent opinion to be able to test their ideas. Access to a second opinion would be much better than access to an ombudsman.
Yn olaf, ynglŷn â’r ombwdsmon, nid wyf yn sicr ai dyna yw’r ateb cywir. Byddai nifer o bobl yn y sector busnes, pe byddent yn anghytuno â’r asiantaeth cymorth i fusnesau lleol, am geisio barn annibynnol arall er mwyn rhoi eu syniadau ar brawf. Byddai cael ail farn yn llawer gwell na chael ombwdsmon.
First, I join all those who have thanked Jim Driscoll. We should also express thanks for the support that he received from the Committee Clerk, Helen Usher. She put in many extra hours to draft the report and worked extremely hard. I am sure that the Assembly will join me in thanking them both.
Yn gyntaf, ymunaf â phawb a ddiolchodd i Jim Driscoll. Dylem hefyd gydnabod y cymorth a dderbyniodd gan Glerc y Pwyllgor, Helen Usher. Gweithiodd nifer o oriau ychwanegol er mwyn drafftio’r adroddiad a gweithiodd yn hynod o galed. Yr wyf yn sicr y bydd y Cynulliad yn ymuno â mi i ddiolch i’r ddau ohonynt.
I will pick up on one key theme that has come out of this debate, namely the responsiveness of the Welsh Development Agency to working with other partners as well as with small and medium sized enterprises. It has given the impression that it mainly works with large, inward investors. That is not correct, but it has been the impression given. The quinquennial review picked up those points. I believe that the WDA has learned those lessons. We are anxious as an Assembly to ensure that the WDA is seen to be an all-rounded organisation, that it develops partnership across the pitch with those who seek to deliver services in both the public and private sectors, and that it looks after the interests of small as well as large companies. We decided and recommended in the report that we did not want two separate agencies—one for small companies, and one for large ones. That was the right decision. Therefore, it is now incumbent on the WDA to provide those services.
Cyfeiriaf at un thema allweddol a ddeilliodd o’r ddadl hon, sef pa mor ymatebol yw Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru i weithio â phartneriaid eraill yn ogystal â mentrau bach a chanolig eu maint. Rhoddodd yr argraff ei fod yn gweithio’n bennaf â mewnfuddsoddwyr mawr. Nid yw hynny’n gywir, ond dyna’r argraff a roddwyd. Cyfeiriwyd at y pwyntiau hyn yn yr adolygiad pum-mlynedd. Credaf bod y WDA wedi dysgu’r gwersi hynny. Fel Cynulliad, yr ydym yn awyddus i sicrhau bod y WDA yn cael ei weld fel sefydliad amlochrog, a’i fod yn datblygu partneriaeth ym mhob maes â’r rheini sydd am gyflwyno gwasanaethau yn y sector cyhoeddus a phreifat, a’i fod yn gwarchod buddiannau cwmnïau bach yn ogystal â chwmnïau mawr. Penderfynasom ac argymhellwyd yn yr adroddiad nad oeddem am gael dwy asiantaeth ar wahân—un ar gyfer cwmnïau bach, a’r llall ar gyfer rhai mawr. Yr oedd hwnnw’n benderfyniad cywir. Felly, mae’n ddyletswydd bellach ar y WDA i ddarparu’r gwasanaethau hynny.
I will pick up on a point that Brian made about clusters and supply chains. In building the small business community in Wales, those are essential factors in success, and I hope that that will come through in the business support review. I will pick up one small point that Janet raised about the figures from Dun & Bradstreet yesterday on business failures. I ask you, Janet, and others, to treat them with extreme caution. You were actually wrong—other parts of the United Kingdom had bigger failure rates than was suggested. There are other issues. The link with foot and mouth disease, which is not sustained necessarily, is not proven by that work. The increase in business failures in Wales for the first six months of this year—up to 30 June—is less that that for the first six months of 2000. We must be careful about how we ascribe blame in these matters, but we all recognise the problems that foot and mouth disease has created.
Cyfeiriaf at bwynt a wnaeth Brian ynglŷn â chlystyrau a chadwynni cyflenwi. Wrth ddatblygu’r gymuned busnesau bach yng Nghymru, mae’r rheini’n ffactorau llwyddiant hanfodol, a gobeithiaf y daw hynny i’r amlwg yn ein hadolygiad o gymorth i fusnesau. Cyfeiriaf at bwynt bach a gododd Janet ynglŷn â’r ffigyrau gan Dun & Bradstreet ddoe am fethiannau busnes. Gofynnaf ichi Janet, ac eraill, i’w trin yn ofalus iawn. Yr oeddech yn anghywir mewn gwirionedd—mae gan rannau eraill o’r Deyrnas Unedig gyfraddau methiant mwy nag yr awgrymwyd. Ceir materion eraill. Nid yw’r gwaith hwnnw yn profi bod cyswllt â chlwy’r traed a’r genau, na chynhaliwyd o anghenraid. Mae’r cynnydd mewn methiannau busnes yng Nghymru yn chwe mis cyntaf y flwyddyn—hyd at 30 Mehefin—yn llai nag yr oedd ar gyfer chwe mis cyntaf 2000. Rhaid inni fod yn ofalus ynglŷn â’r modd y priodolwn y bai yn y materion hyn, ond yr ydym oll yn cydnabod y problemau a grewyd gan glwy’r traed a’r genau.
Alun makes his point about WalesTrade International frequently. However, as I have said to the Assembly before, WalesTrade International has only been in place for just over a year and I have no plans to review it.
Gwna Alun ei bwynt ynglŷn â Masnach Cymru Rhyngwladol yn aml. Fodd bynnag, fel y dywedais eisoes wrth y Cynulliad, dim ond ers ychydig dros flwyddyn y sefydlwyd Masnach Cymru Rhyngwladol ac nid oes gennyf unrhyw gynlluniau i’w adolygu.
Regarding the public sector versus the private sector, I do not want the public sector to compete with the private sector. Some programmes and schemes are rightly the province of the public sector and some rightly that of the private sector. I do not want that distinction to be blurred.
O ran y sector cyhoeddus yn erbyn y sector preifat, nid wyf am i’r sector cyhoeddus gystadlu â’r sector preifat. Mae rhai rhaglenni a chynlluniau yn perthyn yn briodol i faes y sector cyhoeddus ac eraill yn perthyn yn briodol i’r sector preifat. Nid wyf am i’r gwahaniaeth hwnnw gael ei gymylu.
Lastly, I thank everyone who contributed this afternoon. There is a genuine agreement that this is the right way forward. The challenge now is to make it work. I share the sense of urgency that many Assembly Members rightly feel. I hope that we can ensure that all these matters and contractual arrangements are dealt with swiftly so that we can begin on 1 April next year.
Yn olaf, hoffwn ddiolch i bawb a gyfrannodd y prynhawn yma. Ceir cytundeb gwirioneddol mai dyma yw’r ffordd gywir ymlaen. Yr her yn awr yw gwneud iddo lwyddo. Rhannaf yr un ymdeimlad o frys ag y teimla nifer o Aelodau’r Cynulliad. Gobeithiaf y gallwn sicrhau yr ymdrinnir â’r materion hyn oll a’r trefniadau contract yn ddi-oed fel y gallwn gychwyn ar 1 Ebrill y flwyddyn nesaf.
Gwelliant 1 Alun Cairns t. 101
Amendment 1 Alun Cairns p. 101
GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 8 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 42
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment defeated.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (8)
- Nick Bourne
- Alun Cairns
- David Davies
- Glyn Davies
- William Graham
- David Melding
- Jonathan Morgan
- Peter Rogers
Yn erbynAgainst (42)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Peter Black
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Christine Chapman
- Cynog Dafis
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Carwyn Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- David Lloyd
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- Tom Middlehurst
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Kirsty Williams
- Phil Williams
Gwelliant 2 Alun Cairns t. 102
Amendment 2 Alun Cairns p. 102
GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 22 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 29
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment defeated.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (22)
- Nick Bourne
- Eleanor Burnham
- Alun Cairns
- Cynog Dafis
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- William Graham
- Pauline Jarman
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- David Lloyd
- David Melding
- Jonathan Morgan
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (29)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Peter Black
- Rosemary Butler
- Christine Chapman
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- Tom Middlehurst
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Kirsty Williams
Gwelliant 3 Dafydd Wigley t. 102
Amendment 3 Dafydd Wigley p. 102
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 49 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 1
Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (49)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Alun Cairns
- Christine Chapman
- Cynog Dafis
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- David Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Kirsty Williams
- Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (1)
- Sue Essex
Gwelliant 4 Dafydd Wigley t. 103
Amendment 4 Dafydd Wigley p. 103
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 42 YmatalAbstain 1 Yn erbynAgainst 7
Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (42)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Peter Black
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Christine Chapman
- Cynog Dafis
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- David Lloyd
- Tom Middlehurst
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Kirsty Williams
- Phil Williams
YmatalAbstain (1)
- Peter Rogers
Yn erbynAgainst (7)
- Nick Bourne
- Alun Cairns
- David Davies
- Glyn Davies
- William Graham
- David Melding
- Jonathan Morgan
Gwelliant 5 Dafydd Wigley t. 104
Amendment 5 Dafydd Wigley p. 104
GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 21 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 30
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment defeated.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (21)
- Nick Bourne
- Alun Cairns
- Cynog Dafis
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- William Graham
- Pauline Jarman
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- David Lloyd
- David Melding
- Jonathan Morgan
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (30)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Peter Black
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Christine Chapman
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- Tom Middlehurst
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Kirsty Williams
Gwelliant 6 Alun Cairns t. 105
Amendment 6 Alun Cairns p. 105
GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 21 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 30
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment defeated.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (21)
- Nick Bourne
- Alun Cairns
- Cynog Dafis
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- William Graham
- Pauline Jarman
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- David Lloyd
- David Melding
- Jonathan Morgan
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (30)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Peter Black
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Christine Chapman
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- Tom Middlehurst
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Kirsty Williams
Gwelliant 7 Alun Cairns t. 105
Amendment 7 Alun Cairns p. 105
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 51 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (51)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Alun Cairns
- Christine Chapman
- Cynog Dafis
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- David Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Kirsty Williams
- Phil Williams
Gwelliant 8 Alun Cairns t. 106
Amendment 8 Alun Cairns p. 106
GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 9 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 42
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment defeated.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (9)
- Nick Bourne
- Alun Cairns
- David Davies
- Glyn Davies
- William Graham
- Peter Law
- David Melding
- Jonathan Morgan
- Peter Rogers
Yn erbynAgainst (42)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Peter Black
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Christine Chapman
- Cynog Dafis
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- David Lloyd
- Huw Lewis
- Tom Middlehurst
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Kirsty Williams
- Phil Williams
Cynnig wedi’i ddiwygio Michael German t. 108
Amended motion Michael German p. 108
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 42 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 8
Derbyniwyd y cynnig wedi’i ddiwygio.
Amended motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (42)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Peter Black
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Christine Chapman
- Cynog Dafis
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- David Lloyd
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- Tom Middlehurst
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Kirsty Williams
- Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (8)
- Nick Bourne
- Alun Cairns
- David Davies
- Glyn Davies
- William Graham
- David Melding
- Jonathan Morgan
- Peter Rogers
Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 5.24 p.m.
The session ended at 5.24 p.m.